Hello everyone and Welcome to another

episode of Selling Greenville your

favorite real estate podcast here in

Greenville, South Carolina, I'm your host

as always Stan Mccune I'm a realtor here in

Greenville, South Carolina, and you can

find all of my contact information in

the show notes if you need to reach out

to me for any of your real estate needs

particularly if you need a realtor to

help you buy or sell real estate in the

Greenville area please reach out to me

with that contact information in the

show notes and just a reminder please

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move right along and keep plugging at

whatever you're doing now if it sounds

like I'm sick it's because I am very

very simply and so here we go I'm

about to crank out two podcasts with a

stuffy and runny nose and a compressed

feeling chest and all of that good stuff

I've had this now for several days it's

probably related to a trip that I did a

quick trip that I did a week ago to

Vegas what happens in Vegas stays in

Vegas so I will not discuss any of that

but I'm sure I got sick while I was

there nonetheless the content of

selling Greenville never stops I will

provide for you weekly content I've been

doing this now for three and 1 half

years I think in that three and a half

year span over three and a half years

there's been only two weeks if I can

remember correctly that I haven't

recorded new material and I don't plan

to stop anytime soon and and

typically I try to keep this podcast

light and optimistic but factual

right this is all about I I want you

guys to actually hear the facts to

actually know what is happening in real

estate in the Greenville area that's

really the only thing that I care about

at the end of the day I don't have a

major agenda when it comes to the show

I don't have a reason for trying to

mislead you guys I don't even know half

the people that are that are my

listeners a few of you will text me or

will let you know will let me know what

you think about my episodes but for

the most part you know I can look at

statistics but I can't see who's

actually listening so I don't really

have an agenda here outside of just

providing good content to people and for

you people hopefully at some point to

use me as your realtor if you don't

already but we have a matter and and

occasionally this happens where a matter

happens in our area in South Carolina

specifically the upstate of South

Carolina that becomes a soap box for me

because it involves local real estate

and issues that in my opinion not are

not getting proper coverage

elsewhere and when that happens I tend

to go on a rant and that is precisely

what I intend to do so I'm going to

slide my microphone over here right now

apologies if my volume just changed

dramatically but I'm going to keep

the mic here from for the rest of the

time being but there is an issue

brewing in Greenville County that has

not gotten in my opinion the right type

of coverage and a lot of people are

completely unaware of what is happening

in our back door okay this past week in

Greenville County council chambers an

ordinance passed second reading in the

County Council that if and when it

passes third reading and it will pass

third reading unless people stand up and

and attend that third reading and make

their voice known that they aren't happy

this ordinance strips away the rights of

property owners in unzoned areas in

Greenville County only three out of 12

County council members voted against the

ordinance if I remember correctly

those three were Stan sakis no relation

despite us having the same first name

even though it's not technically my

first name it's my middle name I go by

my my middle name I'm one of those

Stan suus Chris harison and I believe if

my memory serves me Mike Barnes yes I

was in attendance for the meeting I saw

all the drama everything go down

and so here is what this ordinance is

dealing with it's dealing with two very

different things but both dealing with

with development two very different

things that they crammed into one and

conveniently said well you can't really

separate these two things even though

Stan tacus asked for them to separate

these two things out the County Council

had already decided the the nine

members these two things were going to

pass these and it doesn't matter any

what anyone else thinks okay the first

one which we're going to deal with is

the more benign of the two issues and

and there's some there are some reasons

why I can understand that the

County Council is trying to address this

but it's the issue of reparan buffers

they passed a 50ft reparan buffer in

Greenville County here's what that means

here's what a reparan buffer means

reparan has to do with waterways a

50-ft repairing buffer means that

developers have to leave a buffer of

vegetation at least 50 ft from County

streams and jurisdictional Waters

whenever those devel developers build in

Greenville

County that is and and then there there

is an additional element of it I'm

jumping ahead a little bit but a 100

foot reparan buffer if I remember

correctly from major waterways which

that's going to be a fun one to Define

and and that's not the exact

terminology I've got a bunch of notes

Here I I'll come back to it at some

point but that's going to be a fun

one as well H how to define the

the major reparan areas now I want to

make one thing very clear here I am not

against environmentalists and I'm not

against the Green movement there is a

lot of I would say positives that

have come from studies that

environmentalists have done from from

things in their agenda but there is

clearly substantial lobbying efforts

being made by environmentalists in and

outside of Greenville to impact things

in Greenville County specifically when

it came to this reparan buffer there

there were all sorts of environmental

groups at Greenville County council

chambers to express their support

verbally for the repairi and buffer tons

of environmental groups were present

they even said everyone in here wearing

blue is in supported this I was wearing

blue I was not aware I mean just

about everyone was wearing blue right

people wear blue like all the time

and they said everyone that's wearing

blues and supported this that that was a

straightup l

nonetheless these are generally

speaking people who would stop any and

all development in Greenville County if

they could because they believe

generally speaking that human dwellings

destroy the environment now I'm not

going to argue with them one way or the

other on any of that that that is

neither here nor there when it comes to

to this podcast but that is

generally speaking what they believe

if you really boil it down they wouldn't

say they believe that but if you really

have a conversation with them that's

generally speaking what they believe now

before I say anything else I would like

to bring to everyone's attention that

there is substantial money being pumped

into greenville's local elections from

outside of Greenville I know this I have

firsthand knowledge of this happening

there are special interest groups trying

to turn Greenville into their next

little project even sending substantial

money into last week's mayor and city

council elections now ask yourself what

is it that they want Greenville to be

that it isn't already what are they

trying to turn the upstate of South

Carolina into I'm not going to answer

that question I just want you to think

about that why is there substantial

money being pumped into Greenville by

interest groups special interest groups

from outside side of Greenville into our

elections now I should probably say

before I jump back into the topic at

hand some might argue that developers

and Realtors such as myself are also a

part of special interest groups and that

is true to a certain extent but nobody

complained about Realtors or developers

being a an impactful special interest

group when Greenville went from a

municipality with half of downtown

boarded up and tons of crime throughout

the county into indisputably one of the

best places to live and visit not

just in the Southeast but the entire us

so it's interesting as all these outside

interests creep into our area that

frequently I'm hearing the scapegoat for

problems in our County tend to be the

people like the developers and realtors

that have been here the whole time the

county has been improving hm I wonder

why that's the case and I'll say with

regard to Realtors just wanting more and

more development because that's what I

keep hearing Realtors just want them to

develop Greenville and turn Greenville

into the next Atlanta or Charlotte

that's what a lot of people believe and

I would just ask you how does that

actually help Realtors how does it help

Realtors if development just keeps

happening and happening right just

because more houses are built doesn't

mean that I as a realtor will get more

clients now there are a very very small

portion of Realtors who represent

Builders and Developers and obviously

they would benefit I'm not one of them

the vast majority of us including myself

aren't going to see any meaningful

increase in our business with more

development in Greenville County it just

doesn't work that way hey they're

building you know I've got developments

being built all around where I live you

know how much that's helped my business

none I don't get business from from

those developments so Realtors who

pushed for more development like myself

are not concerned about getting more

business that that's the silliest thing

we're concerned about housing

affordability that is and you guys know

this if you've been listening for a

while I've been on this train for a long

time I'm the conductor of the housing

affordability train we cannot have

housing affordability if we don't build

more units and I'm going to have another

podcast about this probably in a few

weeks showing just how far behind

Greenville is in development right now

in terms of trying to keep up with

the population

that is what I'm concerned about if we

don't build then price is Skyrocket it's

really that simple but Realtors don't

automatically get more business with

more development okay let's just clear

the air on that all right I digress

let's get back to the reparum buffers

and their impact and here's what I want

to say that regardless of the endgame

for the environmentalists and other

special interest groups that are behind

this I'm not against repairium buffers I

just want to clear the air but I am

against the the green movement lobbying

for things that are against housing

affordability which is something that

they're known for doing it's one of the

classic things that environmentalists

do they will do just about everything

that environmentalists stand for are

against housing affordability and that's

fine we can find ways to incorporate

elements of the green movement into

real estate and into housing and into

development without seeing the cost of

housing Skyrocket but left to their

own devices if they just did everything

that they wanted it would destroy

housing affordability just about

anywhere that that that they

are and I'm against that I'm against

that part of the green movement because

I believe we do need to find the balance

necessary to address environmental

concerns and create sustainable plans

that allow developers to develop without

substantially raising the cost of

development which always gets past

belong to the consumer at a time when

the cost of housing has never been

higher right people are way more

concerned about the cost of housing than

they are about you know whether every

repairi and buffer is exactly the way it

should be yeah do we have water quality

problems in Greenville County sure tell

me how many times do animals

how many times do they poop all

right I'm just going to say it I said I

said the word poop on my podcast how

many times do animals poop near a stream

that poop washes into the stream now

we've got tons of eoli tons of other

things you these I'm sorry but we can

do a thous foot repairing buffers it's

not going to fix the issues that we have

but those things are good that I'm

not saying that they're bad I'm not

saying that we should just develop right

up against streams that's not at all

what I'm saying but we they're needs to

be some common sense in this and I

mentioned before that they also included

a 100t buffer from areas okay here's the

proper terminology with high volume of

drainage now I suspect this will be

used to block a lot of development in

the future I mean you get into some of

these unzoned areas and it's very easy

to claim that there is a high volume

of drainage in that area I'm very

concerned about that language very

concerned about oh lot of language right

now as it as it's being utilized in

Greenville County Council and let's

let's be honest there is there are no

two ways about it this is 100% designed

to restrict development and will be used

however possible to do so this is a nimi

not in my backyard ordinance it's

that simple but it's a nimi ordinance

under the guise of

environmental

trying to protect the

environment that being said again I've

already said I'm not against inherently

repairing buffers I'm not even

inherently against the idea behind this

ordinance but there are some concerns

that I have with how we're going about

this but that's only one part of the

ordinance there's a whole another part

of the ordinance that I'm much more

concerned about and that I have much

bigger issues with and that's the county

included a requirement that any

development of 10 or more homes in

unzoned areas of Greenville County that

are on septic systems must be on at

least 1.5 acre acre lots excuse

me again bear with me I'm sick I

might be coughing at some point I don't

know we'll

see I'm going to read that one more time

in development of 10 or more homes in

unzoned areas of Greenville County that

are on septic system

must be on at least 1.5 acre lots now

let's think let's think for a moment

about just how ridiculous this is first

these are

unzoned areas I have had a lot of

clients over the years targeting unzoned

areas in Greenville County to purchase

property why because they're unzoned and

they want the freedom to be able to do

whatever they want to do with their

property now imagine if Greenville

County went to all the homeowners in

unzoned areas and told them that they

were going to be zoned that would be the

proper way to go about what they did and

I would be fully on board with if

Greenville County wanted to propose new

Zoning for the unzoned areas have at it

let the people have a voice put up those

proposed zoning signs all over the place

and let people know what's happening

rather than just slide this through

the back door guess what people would be

angry they don't like to be zoned when

they're in unzoned areas so instead

because the county knew that people

would be angry about this even though

they they sat up there and lectured us

about how oh yeah people are

definitely in favor of this I've talked

to three people who are in unzoned areas

that like this yeah you're talking to

people that that you want to talk to

is is what's happening there and

the vast majority of Greenville County

is unzoned area I would put my money

behind it they do not want to have

more regulations on their land because

they know it devalues their land so

instead of going about it the proper way

the county snuck de facto zoning in

through the back door with what is in my

opinion a cowardly ordinance that they

knew people in rural areas wouldn't be

driving all the way down to Downtown

Greenville to protest that's what this

is this is a cowardly ordinance they

knew that people would would look at it

and be like Oh okay that's that's not a

big deal and or or that it just

wouldn't get newsworthy attention or

that the media would cover in a way that

is very positive towards the ordinance

which is exactly what happened and so

people wouldn't wouldn't show up to

support their unzoned areas not not

realizing that they're getting their

rights stripped away from their land

now I'll also mention that most people

who live in Greenville and South

Carolina for that matter live here at

least in part because of a desire for

limited government okay may maybe not

everyone thinks that they live here in

part because of a desire for limited

government but if you like what's

happening in Greenville guess what

everything that's happened in Greenville

has has happened under limited

government and so if you like what's

happening in Greenville then you like

limited government that is the reality

of the situation and many of our

councilors or our councilmen and women

in Greenville County have run on small

government conservative platforms well

guess what nine out of 12 of them have

shown their true colors because this is

the type of backdoor limiting of rights

that you hear about in areas like San

Francisco and Chicago this is what you

hear County Council city council

people doing in major Metro areas is

with a stroke of a pen getting rid of

people's rights and and doing it in

such a way that supports these special

interest groups that are not impacted

At All by just legislation I would have

liked all the people in blue at

Greenville County Council to state

whether they lived in unzoned areas how

many of them are going to be impacted by

this type of

legislation I bet that not a

single one of them would have stood up

had we done something like that secondly

I want to mention that everyone's

concerned about infrastructure right

everyone you talk to people all the

time very concerned about about the

roads about water sewer all these

different things storm water and many

people in County Council again ran on

platforms that were improving our

infrastructure platforms one of the

major concerns with infrastructure is

sewer and its capacity and guess what

when people are un septic they aren't

impacting sewer capacity it helps our

infrastructure to have more people un

septic so what are we doing here we're

now we're we're penalizing people

remember the the 1 and a half acre

minimum lot size for new developments

are for new developments on septic

literally a penalty against going on

septic

that County Council is basically just

going back on everything they said

about being concerned about

infrastructure they don't care about

infrastructure you know what they care

about they care about stopping

development when you hear County Council

say we're concerned about

infrastructure hey how many County

Council people have actually gone out

there and positively impacted

infrastructure name me one County

council person that has done that in

recent years that has has really pushed

that ball forward you know what their

only solution is for improving

infrastructure it's stopping development

that's been their only solution they've

been out of solutions now for years upon

years and it's not because there aren't

Solutions out there it's because they

don't want to listen to those solutions

they don't want to to do the studies

they don't want to think creatively they

simply want to stop development because

they've been bought by the nimes that is

the reality of the situation I'm sorry

I'm I'm just speaking truth here if

you're a County coun CC member and

you're listening to this and you're one

of the nine out of 12 sorry I I said

what I said you can reach out to me and

let me know if you disagree I'll let my

podcast know my listeners know what

you said if you do and so your that

invitation is out there for any County

Council people that want to make a

statement I I if you send me an email my

contact information in the show notes

I will read word for word I will not

read act it I'll read word for word what

you say but I may very well give my

thoughts on it and and if it's too

long it you know if it's going to

take me more than two minutes to read I

I'm not going to read that all right so

it needs to be a less than a two-minute

read we we'll put that out there as well

little caveat all

right here's another thing all right

while I'm on this ramp many of those on

Greenville County Council have run on

platforms for affordable housing

it's pretty clear now that they either

don't know what constitutes affordable

housing or they just don't care about it

the average home on a 1 and a half acre

lot in Greenville County costs in excess

of

668,000

is that affordable is that what

affordable housing looks like because

guess what developers here here's the

way development works right we

oversaturate an area you know of area

becomes a suburban area a suburban area

becomes an urban area and development

has to push out we have what 22 people

per day moving to Greenville County

development has to keep pushing out in

order to support that we either grow or

we stagnate either forward or backwards

there's no you can't just go on cruise

control that's what Greenville County

Council seems to think is that we can

just go on cruise control and just kind

of keep the county the way the same the

way it is right now no we either are

going to continue continue to grow or

we're going to go backwards we've seen

this over and over again in so many

different cities you want to hear listen

listen to the news about all these

cities that that they like to talk about

like the San franciscos and the Chicagos

and all these cities that are going

backwards you know what they stopped

growing in the right way and and they

tried to you know let all these other

special interest groups decide what

happened in their counties and cities

and guess what now crime rates are way

up housing price are out of control all

of these different things this is

exactly what's going to happen to

Greenville County I hate to say it this

is exactly what's going to happen to

Greenville County if we keep going down

the road that County Council is

sending us the average home in a 1 and a

half acre lot which is what they are

requiring now for unzoned areas what

they're trying to require it hasn't

passed third reading yet and once

it does then it will essentially go into

law six over $668,000 if you want a 1

and2 acre lot a house on a 1 and a/2

acre

lot that is not affordable and and where

I was going with my point before is that

developers are going to have to go into

these unzoned areas they have no choice

right as as the rural areas become

suburban and Suburban areas become more

urban you have to push out into some

of these un unzoned areas for the

upstate of South Carolina to grow and so

these tracks of land that are unzoned

are going to become more and more

important and guess what you cannot use

a one half acre lot to build affordable

housing I mean even a

$250,000 house is not going to make

money on a one and a half acre lot a lot

of people would say that a $250,000

house isn't even affordable by

present day standards but you you

can't even make money listen I know I I

have built and flipped houses on the

side of my realtor business for years

now you cannot make money I'm going to

say it again building cheap houses on 1

and a half acre lots the cost of land is

too high for the numbers to work so

guess what property owners with

developable land in unzoned areas if

this ordinance passes third reading they

will see their property values plummet

because if they ever want to to sell to

a

developer who are the obviously the main

purchasers of major tracks of land they

would have to sell to a developer that

has a way to make money building houses

on one and a half acre lots and there

aren't hardly any developers doing that

in Greenville County so guess what

imagine you list your home for sale

knowing that there's only going to be

two people in Greenville interested in

buying your home two people guess what

you're not the likelihood of you selling

that is not very good the likelihood of

you getting into a bit bidding war is

even less likely you're not going to

have a lot of competition and so you're

not likely to get a whole lot for

what you're selling for it's the same

thing with land land by itself land with

a home on it in these unzoned areas the

fewer the buyers there are the less

value that that you have for that land

and with there not being very many

Developers Greenville County building on

one and a half acre lots when you go to

sell you don't have a a large pool of

potential buyers to purchase that land

you're you're really limited to

just a handful of small

developers or if you're lucky maybe an

owner that doesn't want a potential

owner that doesn't want to develop the

land that just wants to keep it for

hunting or whatever the case may be

but again those buyers out there are few

and far in between if you do find a

developer willing to do a development

with one and a half acre lots after that

developer beats you down on on the on

the price that they're going to purchase

your property for or that they're

going to purchase your property for

since they won't be competing against

probably anyone else for the purchase

then after they beat you down and and

purchase it they're undoubtedly going to

develop an unaffordable home product

probably well north of the

$668,000 average there's really no other

way to go right how how else you know

what what I would see them doing is

probably mini Farm kind of communities

something like Bruce farms is is a

possibility where you've got frequently

one one and a half two million2 and A5

million dollar homes that's the kind of

community that developers typically

do when it comes to at least presently

one and a half acre lots

now chairman Dan trip on County

Council attempted token diplomacy by

including an amendment that would sunset

this ordinance in two years but we know

what that means okay unless people come

out in force in two years to oppose this

ordinance it will be passed once again

because the county isn't going to listen

to developers concerns they're not going

to listen to realtor concerns and

most Property Owners won't be selling

their property in the next two years

so they won't realized just how much

it's that this ordinance has devalued

their property until later down the road

okay so sunsetting this in two years

to me absolutely meaningless did not

change anything with regard to to

this ordinance it just means more of

the same it's also insane to me that

multiple times it was mentioned by

people on the council especially enus

Fant who I have supported on the show

before I want to be very clear I have

supported enus on the show before I do

believe he's an asset to the council

but when it comes to this discussion I

have full disagreement with enus he

said that this ordinance isn't meant to

be permanent others on the council said

this ordinance isn't meant to be

permanent or at least alluded to that

he implied that the ultimate goal is to

Zone the unzoned areas now we call

that saying the quiet part out loud hey

we're going to strip away your rights

right now through the back door see how

it works and then assuming nobody makes

a big deal we'll try to go about it the

the proper way later on that to me is

insane an insane thing for the county to

do and I'm not calling out en for

that again nine out of 12 County council

members voted on the second reading

for this we have a problem okay that

this is a County Council problem with

three qus of the County Council on board

the Greenville County Council has been

sued many times over the past few years

and you have to wonder if this is just

another lawsuit in the making

and I'll just say it's a good

thing that they make all that money off

of property taxes that they keep raising

to keep those attorneys on retainer

because I do think that they're going to

need those attorneys I I have a sneaky

suspicion that there will be lawsuits

coming maybe not the next year maybe not

in the next two years probably once

it'll most of these County council

members are gone at that point it'll be

someone else's mess to clean up

regardless make no mistake about this

the County Council is made up officially

they have outed themselves of

anti-development

nimes people that believe develop just

not in my backyard and they found a

convenient partner to help them stop

development without saying that that's

what they're doing that's the

environmentalists and the media appears

to be on the environmentalist payrolls

as well with glowing articles coming out

of the Greenville News Post and

Courier several others in the

aftermath of the second reading so much

of the rhetoric around this topic is

that it hurts developers and boohoo you

know they already have screwed us over

right but what about property owners who

have historically sold to these

developers what about them who is

standing up for them and their land

values nobody in the media only a

handful of people on County Council

we need more people to stand up for the

people in these unzon areas that are

about to have a ton of property value

and a ton of Rights stripped away from

them

overnight in the past I've written to

even gbll today a newsletter that

again I have promoted on this show to

portray the other side I've asked them

to portray the other side of the

anti-development debate and show how it

hurts housing affordability because I

feel like they have even though they're

pretty neutral they have at

different times basically just pared

the headlines from from the media and

and not actually really shown the other

side and despite me reaching out to them

they're also non-committal so I'm going

to call gbll today out as well because

I've been supportive of them but I'm not

happy with them when it comes to matters

like this we need these media social

media people everyone to be aware of

this issue and to actually support

Property Owners not these special

interest groups so here we are there's

only one thing that we can do and that

is that people need to come out in force

for the third reading of this ordinance

and oppose this massive overreach by

County Council this third the third

reading I don't believe has been

announced yet but Greenville News

believes that it will be on December 7th

so that's what I'm assuming at this

Point make sure that you look that up

probably early December to double check

but I will be there okay and I want

as many of you to be there I don't care

where you're from we need as many

people to come out against the third

reading of this ordinance against these

1 and A2 acre lot requirements at the

very least listen we can leave the

repairi and buffer part of it alone okay

I understand

that there are some legitimate

environmental issues when it comes to

that but the current what we have been

doing for for septic lots for years

one and a half acres is so far and above

dhx requirements and it's so far and

above standard development requirements

that it's just it's an

insane type of provision I I hope we

need to get as many people out of there

we as many people out to the media

as possible we had almost no developers

we had almost no Realtors almost no

Property Owners show up for the second

reading that has to change I hope you

guys will turn out and I hope you guys

will show Greenville County Council that

we won't stand up for them trampling on

the rights of property owners and and

Zoning unzoned areas through the back

door if they want to zone unzoned areas

they have a legal way to do that and

they should go about it through the

proper leg channels I don't care if

they've been working on this ordinance

for 9 months 10 months 2 years 20 years

a millennia I don't care it's not right

it is not going to help the county it's

against what so many of the people in

County counil have put in their

campaigns in the past what what they've

been campaigning for and we need to

hold them accountable so I hope you guys

turn out December 7th or whenever it

ends up being feel free to reach out

out to me early December I'll have more

information by that point for when that

third reading is going to be reach out

to me if you're confused if you're not

sure I will I will let you guys know how

do you reach out well nice segue my

contact information is in the show notes

so please reach out to me in that way if

you email me I prefer that you follow

that up with a text to let me know in

case the email goes into my junk but

I appreciate all you guys listening like

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I love you guys thank you for listening

we will talk again next time