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Welcome to The Aggressive Life. If you don't leave today feeling inspired, you haven't been paying attention. He's been born with a rare neuromuscular disease. Kevin Chandler has been dependent on others for all his physical needs, movement, food, hygiene for the vast majority of his life. He is stuck in a wheelchair. No one would have blamed Kevin for taking the easy road, choosing comfort, or dipping into silk self-pity or getting bitter or just hunkering down in sorrow and all that stuff. But Kevin reads for risk and the unknown instead. He's been making aggressive moves as a guy who's been in a wheelchair his whole life. To quote the Beatles, he was able to do it all, quote, with a little help from his friends. Well, we should probably have that little ditty right now. Okay. I would just love for you to sing it actually. What would you do if I sang out of tune? And then it goes into, that's all I know. And then it's, I get by with a little help from my friends. Ooh, I get high with a little help from my friends. I always want to like get high. Are they saying like their friends always have the bag of weed? Is that what they're saying? I mean, it's the Beatles. I kind of feel like that's what they're saying. Yeah, I guess so. Well, with a handful of good guys in tow, Kevin has a plan to visit Europe without. his wheelchair. How would you do that? Well, his friends would carry him on their back across three countries for three weeks. And that's exactly what happened. Modifying an REI backpack, Kevin and his friends went on an epic adventure. They visited Paris. They attended a music festival on the Seine, Seine River, Seine, Seine? Seine. Sane River. Kevin, you're not allowed to talk yet. You're the guest. You're supposed to wait until I'm done with my monologue. Just shut your yap or you're always trying to butt in. Hold on, we'll get to you. Oh, but thank you, the Sane River. They wandered through the English countryside, saw the sights of London. They jumped over to Ireland and even hiked a 600 foot summit to visit a monastic fortress on Skellig Michael. And the adventures didn't end there. They inspired people the world over. Kevin has spoken on his incredibly aggressive life. on the TEDx stage, at Google, and as a guest of honor at numerous conferences, universities, and companies. He's gone on to found the We Carry Kevin nonprofit, which has developed its own custom backpack for carrying loved ones. He's delivered those backpacks all over the world. He's covered China, hiked the Great Wall. He's been featured in two documentaries, written a book about his adventures, gotten married, launched his own podcast. And he just keeps going. I'm tired reading about you, Kevin. Welcome to Aggressive Life, Kevin Chandler. Thanks for having me. Oh man. It's good having you. Uh, do you do a lot of podcasts? Um, it depends on the season. Depends on the seasons. I feel like I do a handful back to back, and then there's a season of doing other things, getting out there and living the life that we're talking about. Well, one of my favorite stories in the Bible is a story about a paralyzed guy who gets carried by his friends. They hack through a roof. They lower him down, down through the roof. And Jesus sees him and heals him. And the verse there says, when Jesus saw their faith. And that took me down a rabbit hole one day. I said, huh. So it wasn't the person's faith, it was the other person's faith, and it was those guys making aggressive move. And so what I found was what I counted up in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which are the firsthand accounts of Jesus, what I found was that there was 41 miracles that were recorded. 34 of them were all with somebody taking initiative. They made the aggressive first step. Jesus doesn't just kind of go wander through a hospital and go, oh, I'm just going to feel like I'm healing today. He waits to see who people who will take the first step. And even of the remaining seven, about five of them, Jesus asked them to do something first. They have to step forward, or he tells another guy to go wash off the mud that Jesus put in his face down the pool of Siloam. And I just thought about that with you, how cool it is to have somebody who's still pushing forward and trying to enjoy life. Well done. Thanks, thanks. That passage actually is pretty close one. to my heart as well and comes to mind quite a bit. And I know we just started and so I'm not, this is not a jump on you, but I actually, I wonder if when he says he saw their faith, if that includes the man or if it is just the friends. I actually don't know. I've been curious and from my own life experience of being a guy, lowered through a lot of roofs, you know. not morally, but sometimes, maybe. It takes the friends saying, we have this idea, and the man saying, OK. Or the man saying, I have this idea, and the friend saying, OK. So I'm not really sure. I wonder. I go down that rabbit trail a lot of, what did that morning look like when they were getting ready to go see Jesus? What was that conversation like between all of them? Gosh, that's fascinating. That's exactly why it's interesting talking about stories in the Bible with people who have other life experiences. I'm always thinking about that story from the perspective of somebody who could carry somebody. I'm not thinking about it from the perspective of getting physically carried. Yeah, right. It doesn't say that the paralyzed guy was objecting. It does say their faith. So of course, of course, yeah, that's a great insight. Potentially, yeah, yeah. So these friends that you have, how did this idea pop up to hike you all over the world? Well, as is the case with a lot of things in our lives, and I'm sure you can attest to this as well, is it started at home. I had a bunch of friends we would get together every Monday night for a potluck, and we would. just do it at different people's houses. And most of those were not wheelchair accessible. So we would leave my chair downstairs or in the van or whatever. And they would carry me up the flight of stairs or three flights of stairs to join them and be part of what our group was doing. And so from there, some of the guys and I started talking and said, well, what else could we do without my wheelchair? And we decided, you know, we're guys. We grew up on Ninja Turtles and Batman. So we wanted to explore the sewers and sewers are not wheelchair accessible. So we came up with a very makeshift version of the backpack and had that adventure one night. And in our hometown, we just got into the sewers and had a lot of fun there. And so we said, well, we survived that. What else can we do? And about a year later we went. to Europe. What kind of humility did that take for you to allow someone to carry you around? I know you're a man, but most men just don't want someone to do something for them. Was that hard for you when they offered the first time to carry you around? When we went to Europe and when we went to the sewers, you're just kind of in the hype of the moment. You don't really think about. Oh, I'm leaving my wheelchair behind, or oh, this might be dangerous, or you're just kind of, you're with the guys and you're doing this thing. I didn't really think about what I was giving up or leaving behind, but there is a sense of independence that gets left behind in that case. But I also am willing to believe that independence is. should not be very high on our priority. The community and caring for one another and trusting one another really leads to deeper relationship and growth within ourselves and ultimately a closer walk with the Lord because of what it points us to, which is Him and our ultimate need for Him. So I would also add to that I've I'm 37 now and I've spent my whole life. There's not a day that's gone by that I haven't needed help from someone. And so, you know, while the backpack was a more extreme ask, a more extreme kind of situation, you know, you're up on someone's shoulders, you're higher than you've ever been before, you have no control of where you're going or what you're doing. And so it's really a... a letting go of a lot. Um, but I also, you know, I guess I've spent every day of my life saying, well, I need to use the restroom. I guess I'm going to ask this guy to pick me up and hope that he gets me from point A to point B and back. And so there's, it's a muscle building that's happened all throughout my life. It's interesting that this is one of those areas where the the physical world does not mirror the spiritual world. Because in the physical world, we're born entirely dependent. And as we mature, we become more independent, right? And the spiritual world, as we mature, we become dependent. You know, when we're in and of our own self. we are all about ourselves, all about being independent. And as we mature and give our lives to deeper levels with God, we have to become more dependent. And if we're not becoming more dependent, then we're not walking by faith and doing things that are beyond our capacity. Very few people do things that are beyond their capacity because they don't want to live a life of faith, which is when the X factor of God comes in. So I'm really fascinated that your your spiritual trajectory, you're one of the very few people who your spiritual maturity and your physical maturity are in line because you have to be dependent. Yeah, well, and I was reading recently, and I think it was John 6, Jesus says, this is the work of God that you believe in him that he sent, that you believe in Jesus. And I think you're right, it's as we grow spiritually, as we mature in our walk with the Lord, that looks more and more like just trusting Him, just believing Him. In some ways it gets more simple, because it's just that, that's our focus. And in some ways that as maturity is, it becomes more complex because of the doors that it opens up for us and walking with them, the opportunities. Tell me about your faith. When did your faith start getting real and vibrant for you? Yeah, so when I was six years old, I grew up in the church and our family really involved. And when I was about six years old, I was having trouble sleeping because I... couldn't wrap my head around eternity. As if that's something that you can ever wrap your head around no matter what age you are. But it was really bothering me. It's like, wait, so I live forever, but what are you gonna do the whole time? And what is time in that case? And it was just, I was having trouble sleeping and my dad who knows me better than anyone sat me down on his bed and said, like rather than introducing me, or explaining it all to me, he decided he would introduce me to the person I could spend eternity with. And so he presented it to me. He introduced me to Jesus. He said, this is who you can be with forever. And so that's when it started for me. And it's been, you know, just a journey ever since. And in my experience, there have been hard things and there have been really fun and good things. And yet, through all of that, the continent is Jesus. As relationships change, as my physicality changes because my disease is progressive, as I've moved states and moved cities and changed roommates and all of that, now I'm married, so that's not changing. But as life changes, Jesus has always been right there with me. and so I've gotten to walk with them as we were talking about. Tell me about your disease being progressive. In what ways? What's the game plan? So spinal muscular atrophy, that kind of the way I like to explain it is that there's kind of a glitch between the brain and the spinal cord. So the message to my muscles, like my arms and legs and neck. it doesn't really get there right. And so the muscles atrophy over time. And so it's not, the disease itself, it's not necessarily fatal or anything, but I do get weaker over time. And there's seasons where it kind of plateaus, but it's always kind of a downward slope. And so, yeah, so that I remember. especially in high school and college and those times when your body is growing, the muscles were atrophying faster. So I remember realizing that I needed to be able to lay back and rest sometime in the day or else my neck would give out. Or in college, I remember when I was like, oh, I can't really hold a pencil the same way I used to. Or I broke my arm in seventh grade. And so that my right arm atrophied a lot faster than the rest of me. So I can't really use that much. And so it's just kind of a, I grew up in a house where, because my sister has the same disease. And so we grew up in a house where you wake up in the morning and you say, well, what do I want to do? And what can I do today? What's my body going to let me do? And maybe we push that envelope a little bit. And. see how much life we can live. How do you deal with bitterness and anger? I assume you have that, or at least you have had it towards God. I've had, it's an interesting question because I've kind of asked myself the same thing because I've had moments of frustration, but I've really never had a bitterness or anger. towards God, I've been frustrated with my situation. I remember, well, I still experience being married. I would love to, you know, my wife is out getting an oil change right now. I'd love to be the one running that errand for her, you know? Or we had some friends come and rake our leaves last week. I would love to be able to be out there doing that with them. Those are the sort of things that upset me or make me bitter about my situation. But I've never really pointed it back at God. And I wonder if that comes from becoming a believer at such a young age and having such clear examples through my life of Him being there through all of that. And so, you know, how do you blame the one that is the only reason you're still here? Yeah. Well, that makes a lot of sense. But there's a lot of people who still blame him who's still here. There's just so many people who are deconstructing. And I'm not talking about the kind of healthy deconstructing where we'll deconstruct our faith because we've been told that it's our performance that gets God... gets God to love us, great, let's deconstruct that. Or deconstructing that women aren't as important as men in the church, great, let's deconstruct that. There's a lot of things we can deconstruct, right? But the deconstruction that really is hot on social media is when somebody just basically leaves the faith. And one of the things I've seen with people who have left the faith, the one common characteristic is they don't like their life and they blame God. I've been meditating a lot on 2 Timothy chapter 4 verse 5. It says, be sober minded. And then it says, endure suffering. Endure suffering. Faithful people endure suffering. Unfaithful people use suffering, which is almost always never a thimble full of the kind of suffering that you're going through, Kevin. Unfaithful people use their suffering as a reason to just get out, because they thought that they're going to die. The role of God was to make their life happy, and it's not. You know, our life is to push for the purpose of God, whatever hand were dealt, and I see you doing what you're doing. I'm inspired, man. I am. Thank you. Yeah, all I can say is I agree. And I don't know why, but there's been a measure of grace in that the Lord's given me to not turn it back on him. So I'm thankful for that. How much do you weigh, Kevin? So I recently got weighed, and I'm about 80 pounds. OK. 80 pounds. I'm looking at the cover of your book. We carry Kevin. I'm seeing when your buddy's carrying you around. And I'm going, man, 80 pounds. My son and I shot an elk just last week, and we had to pack out this pack. And we were both carrying at least 80 pounds. And I'll tell you what. That is not, that is not an easy and fun experience. So you've not only got some friends who are in shape, you've got some friends who really love you. And I'm curious, in the midst of the national epidemic of male loneliness, how did you get so many good friends? I, you know, I think that's another aspect of just God being really gracious and merciful to me, this is actually, I'm currently writing a book with a friend on this topic of inviting people into your life and inviting people to step with you into your need, what we call the hospitality of need. That there is some element of hospitality that we can find within our need to say, Hey, I not just asking for help, but recognizing that need is a space in which you and I can step together into. And Henry Nowen would say, hospitality creates a space in which one can find their soul, in which the guest can find their soul. And so realizing that you and I can step into my need together and together find something deeper. We can find deeper fellowship. and healing and it's a lifestyle that I've lived for a long time, which is saying, you know, hey, I have these needs, I need to use the restroom or get a shower or, you know, eat and how about you come along inside me and help me make that happen because, you know, I agree there's this issue of men isolating. And I'm curious if you've seen this as well, if you invite men into a project, then there's action, and there's connection. Men connect shoulder to shoulder, whereas women often it's face to face. And so what better shoulder to shoulder project than getting me up in the morning so that I can, so that I can live the day and. And so that's what I'm finding. And that's where, kind of where these guys came from is this became a project, not just for them to serve me, but hey, we want to have this adventure together. It's an impossible adventure. And so let's see if we can figure it out. This is a new and deep wrinkle to something that we've been. talking about here in the Aggressive Life related to male friendships. First of all, this isn't a male podcast, but we get into it, we get into it a bit. So we got two men here so we may as well just talk man talk for a moment. My eyes off. We've talked about a lot about how male friendship happens when you're doing something together. Women connect with people, men connect with things. And when you're connecting with things, you connect with the people who are around those things that you like, your hobbies. But the thing I hadn't thought about till just now, as you mentioned, was, Hmm. This is probably one of those ways that relational maturity mirrors spiritual maturity. Because to have great friends, you have to become dependent on people. When we are always independent, we have no needs. And all our conversations with our friends about how good our life is going and how this is okay, instead of saying, I'm struggling in this area, can you help in this area? we're not going to develop friendships. When you serve somebody, whether it's carrying somebody around in a backpack, or it's helping them fix a toilet that they don't know how to do, and they are dependent enough and vulnerable and humble enough to say, hey, man, I need some help here. I can't do this. This is where friendship grows. And I just wonder, with all of our modern conveniences, which I'm for, things like Uber, you don't need to ask a friend to drive you to the airport anymore. You just get Uber. Or if you had a drink too many and you shouldn't be driving, you can't ask a friend to drive you or call them up out of humility. You just get Uber. And again, I'm pro Uber all the way. But I hadn't thought until you just said it just now that probably a problem with male loneliness is we're holding on too much to our independence. Yeah. I mean, do you see independence in the Bible anywhere? No, no. Yeah. I, the, the further in I get to this idea and, and looking at my own life and looking at scripture and, and the life of Christ, I, I feel like independence might just be alive from Satan that we have, you know, swallowed whole. Yeah. And so I think it's, it's something that we can push back on. Right. And we can push back on it by inviting people into our needs. Yeah, there's a difference between independence and being alone. So Jesus, when he was being tempted for 40 days, he was alone. He didn't feel God at all. It says at the end of those 40 days, it says, then the angels came and ministered to him. So he wasn't having any divine activity, wasn't feeling any closeness with God. He was alone. But that was a different story. wasn't the same as him making the choice that he is going to be independent of his father and the angels. I think that's what we're doing. Maybe not intentionally, but at least accidentally. We're making choices to not need people and not enable people to step into our lives. And therefore, we're lonely and therefore we don't have friends and therefore our life expectancy is going down. Therefore, we're not smiling as much as we should. Yeah, exactly. It's a, I mean, you just said it, it's a slippery slope. Yeah. Right, and I would think that if I was you, putting myself in your position, I'm pretty confident I would be much more bitter than you are. I'm pretty confident I'd be doing much more woes me than you are. And I'm pretty confident that I would bristle at somebody else carrying me around. But, but, if I was your friend, I would love the opportunity to carry you around. Yeah. If I was your friend, I would love not just the opportunity, but the challenge, the male bonding. I mean, that would be great. And we always think we're putting the other person out when really the other person probably would enjoy the opportunity to serve us. Yeah. Yeah, well, an example that I can give, which, by the way, we can do that sometime if you want. Yeah. We're not too far from each other. Well, I carry it around dead meat. I'd love to carry around a live person. That'd be fine. Oh, thank you for not saying live meat. Ha ha ha. Today's episode is brought to you by AG1. I gave AG1 a try because I was feeling a bit sluggish, not confident I was getting all the nutrients that I felt that I needed. And I thought maybe this is an easy solution. So I drink AG1 in the morning. I love doing the morning. I do it on an empty stomach. It forces me to get 12 ounces of water into my system. 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They sent me a smorgasbord of steaks. They are mouthwatering. The burgers are incredible and the roasts make family dinner a breeze. They're located in Finley, Ohio, and they have no hormones. Let me say that again. Flying K Ranch has no hormones or antibiotics. So it's basically like when I go elk hunting or deer hunting or something like that. It's pure, pure meat. They raise their cattle on pastures just the way cattle like it. Flying K Ranch is a family business partnering with Ohio State Nutrition Program. Beef Quality Assurance and Certified Angus Beef National, ensuring happy results for both cattle and people. That's a lot of words. Just to say this, the beef is amazing. Order it now, get it on your table over the holidays, and you will not be disappointed, because I have not. Find out more and place your orders at flyingkranchangus.com. That's flyingkranchangus.com. And now I'm hungry. But an example I would give is like the guy that came and got me up this morning. He's a dad, a husband, he is the executive director for a big nonprofit here and it's involved in the city and so he's always out meeting people and he's just always on the move, really involved in his church and the community and just never... has a chance to slow down. But every Tuesday, it is Tuesday, right? Yeah, every Tuesday, he comes in at 7.30, eight in the morning, and gets me up, gets me ready for the day. And he's expressed to me, he said, you know, this is an hour, hour and a half each week that I get to slow down and my world gets quiet. Because... When you're caring for someone at this level, physically, you can't have distractions. Your phone can't be going off. You can't be also having this conversation over here that you are zeroed in on this one thing and it's just him and me going between my bedroom and bathroom, just getting ready for the day. And so the world becomes small and quiet and slow for a little bit of time. And so what I get to give him in that is rest, you know? And sure, physically he may be doing something, but it gives him this moment to breathe. And other guys have expressed similar things and having a rhythm, you know, or having a quiet moment in their week. And another friend said, This is my, he told me, he said, Kevin, this is your predictable pattern that if we don't see each other the rest of the week, if we forget to text each other and check in, or we just have stuff going on, I know I'm gonna see you on this day. And so, kind of a standing appointment, if you will. And so, as a result, the friendship grows, and I see that I get to give them. that time and that space and also what else do I have to focus on in that time? So I get to give them all of my attention as well. And so I have a part to play in that too, but it's a gift as well going that way. How many dudes do you have in your life who are taking regular shifts to serve you? Yeah, so right now, because it... fluctuates, you know, people get different jobs or move and different things. You may think I've got one, two, three, four, five, six. I've got seven guys regularly and then a handful of guys that I could reach out to if I needed to. And then my wife also kind of fills in the gaps there as well. It's really great because she can do everything. But when we got married, we realized, oh, I need to keep inviting these guys in. This is a gift for them as much as for me. And it affords her some rest as well. So yeah, it's a good deal. Kevin, you're a rich man to have that many deep abiding friendships. There's a lot of guys who would. give up a lot of what they have to be able to have that. Well done, man. You've got the friendship gene. You're killing it in that area. Well done. Thank you. I'm thankful for it. Well, let's go to Europe. What were your highlights of Europe when you're backpacking over there? What do you think of regularly? Yeah. We had so many high adventures. I mean, you mentioned earlier, we went to a music festival. We were also there in Paris during a summer solstice, which the city just becomes a big dance party. So that was pretty fun. And we hiked Skellig Michael. That was pretty epic. But I think the thing that I think back on most, and I just love to remember is the quiet moment, kind of going back to those down times, when we've accomplished this thing, and now we get to kind of sit in it. One memory specifically was going from England to Ireland. We stopped in Wales for a night and just our whole crew of guys, there were seven of us, two camera guys, four guys taking care of me, and then myself. We just kind of took the night off, although they still had to carry me. We got some food and then walked down to the docks in Wales and in the middle of the night and just enjoyed. enjoyed the quiet and enjoyed being together. We call them the unfilmable moments, not because they're bad or inappropriate, but because they're just personal. And so that's something that I love thinking back on. Another one that I think is notable was one day we took a hike through the English countryside. We thought it was going to be about a mile, And at one point in that walk, my friend Tom took me off his back and set me on the hillside, and they all left. And he did this, unprompted by me. I didn't even know what was going on. I was like, wait, where are you going? And he said, well, Kevin, this is what you always wanted. And he was harkening back to... a conversation we had three or four months before when I had said, if I was able-bodied, I would go out in the middle of nowhere and just stand and enjoy the ground below me, the sky above, and me and God in the middle. And so he remembered that. And I had forgotten that I'd said that, but he remembered it and made that happen. And he didn't even... wake up that morning and say, I'm going to find this spot. He just, we were walking and he came to a spot and said, this will do, this is it, let's make this happen. And so the picture of friendship that paints and reminds me of on a regular basis is a really beautiful thing. Wow. Jeez. That's deep, that's rich, that's fantastic. You mentioned your book, I'll just read it. great quote. This is adventure, I told myself. Danger, discomfort, and chance. I think a lot of people say we want adventure, but you say you want danger? No, I don't want danger. We say we want adventure, but you want discomfort? No, I don't want to go. We say we want adventure, but you want like uncertain ending? Chance? No. No, taking your five star, your five star cruise experience to a part of the ocean you've not been before is not an adventure. You know, but, but you're, you're doing, you've, you've done this, just talk more about adventure and give us some encouragement on that. I don't know if this is encouraging or not, but I broke my nose on the trip. There was that and What crappy friend dropped you? Who are they? Who can't carry their own weight? Yeah, we hit the brakes suddenly on the highway and I went flying forward into the seat in front of me. It was kind of a mess. But even that, the pain of that still enriched the experience because it became, there was a little bit more of a struggle, you know, and that And that just innately brings about a little more of a payoff. Because we could have decided it's time to go home. And we said, no, we're gonna keep going. I remember in that moment, because we pulled off and got me some ice and everything, and got me cleaned up. And I remember having this conversation with myself and with the Lord and saying, God, I did this. because I wanted to prove that it could be done to a world that told me to stay home and be safe. And so I wanted to do this and prove that it could happen. And then he reminded me, or maybe pointed out for the first time, well, it can be done. That doesn't mean it's gonna be easy or safe, but it can be done. And so maybe this actually tells us the story and gives the message even stronger that there are going to be hiccups, you are going to break your nose, you are going to have hard things, but that doesn't mean that it's over, you know? And I said, I remember saying, I just want someone in my corner. God, can you please just be in my corner right now because I feel really alone. And he said, open your eyes and look around you. And I had six guys squatting on the ground all around me. And he said, you got all these guys in your corner. It's all right. And it's because of that, that I could have the adventure. And the adventure, and adventures can look different based on what someone's capacity is and people's capacity grows and changes over time. But I think adventure, so much of adventure involves trust and willingness to. to try something, willingness to say yes, and being okay with it not looking like you think it's gonna be, and doing it with people whom you can carry and can also carry you in the process. The embracing of uncertainty and discomfort, let alone danger, is not something a lot of people want to do. And maybe that's part of the reason why the cause of Christ is not going forward because Jesus has given us an adventure, tells us to go into all the world. And that meant being dangerous, uncomfortable, opening ourselves up to the X factor of things you can't control. And I just don't think most of us want that. We want everything in an Excel spreadsheet that I understand. We want all of our comforts that are digitally accessible and automatic inside of our house. We want to do things that we've always done and not learn new skills. And I think that's why Jesus' call is not being accomplished and also why so many of us are dying inside. So thank you for, thank you for starting a new course and pushing us. Yeah. Yeah, he's, I mean, Jesus called, he said he came to give us life that we may look at abundantly. So I think the greatest adventure that we can have in life is to love one another. and to do that courageously and creatively. Yes. All right, Kevin, time for the lightning round. This is when I give you a sentence and you have to answer it like a bolt of lightning, like, like real fast, one or two senses. Are you up for the challenge of the lightning round, Kevin? Kevan, my man, are you up for it? Let's go. All right, here we go. If you could visit anywhere in the world or anywhere in the world again, where would you go? Ireland. Oh, that stop right there for a moment. Okay. I'm surprised by that. I know. Okay. Now I thought this was lightning. You did you, you passed, you gave it immediately. You did perfect. But then I get to, I reserve the right to have follow-up questions. What about Ireland? Okay. What about Ireland? Cause that's one place I haven't been. And I wouldn't say is even on my list. Why Ireland? Hmm. It's I have some family heritage there. Um, goes back. several generations and so I think that there is a heart tie to it in that sense. I've been twice, one on the trip with the backpack and then I went back for the TEDx talk and so I had my wheelchair that time and I don't know, it's a really beautiful place and full of mystery and fantasy and wonder and yet there's also... a great need for Jesus, which that can be said of anywhere in the world. But I think just the balance of those two for me really hits home. And so I feel at home there. Maybe that's a good way to put it. Okay. Back to our lightning round. Here we go. All right. Biggest aggressive move that you've made recently. Can you clarify recently? First one that comes to your mind. Well, I mean, three years ago, well, four years ago, I asked KD to marry me. I think that's the, besides becoming a Christian, that's the most aggressive thing, the most adventurous thing I've ever done. Absolutely is. I don't know if that's recent enough. No, that's recent enough. Well, and that's, young males are not. having the self-confidence to make the aggressive move of asking someone to marry them, let alone even just go out on a date. So yeah, that's aggressive. Great job. Next one. Why should I take risks? Because you don't know what's gonna happen. And that's a good thing. Because there are doors that the Lord wants you to go through and you don't get to see the other side of them until you're through them. the key to becoming more resilient. Baby steps. What's next for Kevin? So December 1st, we have a children's picture book version of the book that you're holding. Oh, cool. Of our coming out. And so we're excited about it. That's very cool. Yeah, we'll be doing a tour with that next year as well. So I guess that's on the horizon too. So Kevin, you've got a nonprofit with all of your learnings and trying to help other people. Tell us about that. When we went to Europe, We did a fundraiser to do that because we were all starving musicians and school teachers and writers and stuff. And so that fundraiser caught the attention globally of people everywhere. And from that, both before, during, and after the trip, we started hearing from hundreds of families from all over the world. And they asked two main questions. Where did you get this backpack? And where did you get these friends? And so when we got back from Europe, we started the nonprofit called We Carry Kevin, and we started it to answer those two questions. And so it's kind of fun. We actually delivered our 1000th backpack just a week ago to a family in Iowa. And we are currently, as of this interview, we are in 44 countries. and it's all been word of mouth. And we worked with a company called Deuter and made kind of a factory version of the backpack that we made in my parents' kitchen and started distributing that around the world. That kind of takes care of that first question of where'd you get this backpack? We can say, oh, we have one, here you go. Oh, that's good. And we sell it for families that just want to buy it outright, but then we also, for families that can't afford it, on our website, we have a platform that we just call the causes page. And so for example, if you wanted a backpack, we would set up a profile for you. And it's a crowdfunding platform. And it gives you an opportunity. It actually does a lot of things. It gives you a voice, gives you an opportunity to invite people to contribute and be a part of this kind of fun need that you have. And it's a fun ask, you know, rather than, can you take me to the doctor? Or can you help me with the restroom? Hey, can you help me raise money to get a backpack to go hiking with my family? Or go hunting with my dad? Or, you know, whatever the case may be. And then also, if someone contributes to that profile, then they get to stay in touch with that family. And so our hope with that is that it's answering the second question of building community around you and saying, well, here's a starter. Here's how you can maybe make some friends and invite them into your need and start that conversation. And then the other aspect of that is any family that gets a backpack, we stay in touch with if they would like to. And so that answers that second question as well as saying, well, I don't have a five-step program on how to make friends, but we can be your friend. Let's start there. Yeah, right. And so through that, just sharing the hope of Jesus and showing the love of Jesus and hopefully bringing more people around them as well through the process. So that's what we do. And if people wanna check it out, it's where you carrykevin.org. Boy, that's another interesting build to that. There's probably a bunch of fitness geeks, adventure geeks that if they had the opportunity to carry somebody to see things, they might sign up for it. I wonder how many people don't have those kinds of friends who would... make the humble move and get on somebody's back. That'd be an interesting twist. Have you thought about that? Yeah. And I think that's maybe like the next iteration, the next kind of phase of what we do. And yeah, maybe we can talk more about that and put something together. That'd be cool. Yeah. All right, Kevin, this has been fantastic. Just give us one more time. If someone wants to follow up with you, find out about your nonprofit, just go ahead and give us an easy advertisement. Yeah, if you want to join the adventure of what we're doing at We Carry Kevin, check out WeCarryKevin.org. We Carry Kevin, K-E-V-A-N, K-E-V-A-N. Kevin, I'm inspired by you. You're a man who is an adventurous man and a very, very wise and deep man. So thank you for pouring into all of us today, especially myself. I'm thankful for you and would love to meet you face to face sometime. Yeah, that'd be great. Thanks so much. All right, folks. Hey, look. We've learned a lot from Kevin here. Here's one thing you've learned. Stop bitching a moan about your problems. My gosh. Stop. There's probably like hardly anybody who has the kind of problems that Kevin has. And yet Kevin has smiled more than most of us do an entire week over the course of an hour. Stop it. Stop. Just got to get a little more hearty. Second thing is what limitations you and I have on ourselves. How many people think that they can't get to Europe? Oh, I can't do it, I can't afford it, I can't afford the time off. If Kevin can figure this out, you can figure it out if that's something you want. I think we take on too many self-prescribed limitations on ourselves. It's called the aggressive life because you need to see things that need to happen and take them, stop making excuses and giving too much homage to the barriers that are there. They're there, they're real. And also, you're a creative agent, and you can figure things out. So I hope you've been inspired by Kevin. I have. Kevin, thanks for being a new friend. I appreciate you. We'll see you next time on The Aggressive Life. Thanks for joining us on this journey toward aggressive living. Find more resources, articles, past episodes and live events over at bryantome.com. My new books, a repackaged edition of The Five Marks of a Man and a brand new Five Marks of a Man Tactical Guide are open right now on Amazon. If you haven't yet, leave this podcast a rating and review. It really helps get the show in front of new listeners. And if you want to connect, find me on Instagram, at Brian Tome, The Aggressive Life. It's a production of Crossroads Church, Cincinnati, Ohio.