In order to get a reaction Not talk about the things that actually mean

something to you. And, yeah, it's gonna repel some people, but they

were gonna be a pain in the ass anyways.

Welcome or welcome back to Too Legitimate to Quit. Instantly

actionable small business strategies with a pop culture

spin. I am your host, Annie p Ruggles, and my

guest today is the delightful and insightful, Caitlin

Penney. Caitlin, a graphic designer since 2010,

founded her own business, Copper Theory Creative, in

2016. At the age of 24, she

was thrilled to realize that her dream of being her own boss,

a goal that she believed was worth fighting for. Copper

Theory Creative has grown into a full service branding agency

and design agency, servicing over 100

businesses since its option in 2016. The

agency considers itself a partner in business, helping

clients amplify their brands professionally To reflect their

business visions. Caitlyn's achievements include

receiving a young professional of the year award and

being featured in ShoutOut Arizona, Canvas Rebel,

and United Colors of Design Magazine. She was also

appointed as the newest Arts commissioner for the city of Chandler,

Arizona and has been nominated for the Chandler Chamber of

Commerce Sell Business of the Year award. Outside of her

professional life, Caitlin enjoys spending time with her pit

Sell, Herbie, watching Harry Potter or listening to

true crime podcasts. My beloved, Caitlin

Penny, I am so excited to have you here today, not only to talk

about a pop culture piece that I just adore so much,

Well, just because I just love your brain and can't wait to ask you the

question, what do small business owners need to focus on this

week? Personal branding. Oh.

Tell me more personal branding.

How so? Sell, as prince wise, I own a company, a

marketing company The focuses on that specifically. And there's

The key to being a successful small business owner, and it is just

to be authentic. Surprise. It's so hard. I

know. God. If only on on this show I had

ever interviewed anyone authentic. Oh, that would

be so dumb. No. But you know what? I think

that's so huge because, like, a lot of the people we hang out

with are pretty darn

authentic In their day to day life. And so there's almost

this process that I know you do

through your work, and I certainly do through Quirkworks with

With giving people permission to

actually do something with that authenticity because people are like,

oh, I'm authentic. Well yeah. Like but are you

marketing authentically? Because if you're showing

the authenticity once people are inside your paywall,

That's not really an authenticity play, is it? So I love that you're

like, can we extend that out into the brand a little

further? Could we make that authenticity A little bit more client

facing because I think a lot of people are like, authenticity. That's frou

frou stuff. Why would I care? And then people that hang out with us are

like, Oh, I'm already authentic. I guess I just I'm okay Not. And it's like,

no. You have to mark it authentically. You have to

brand authentically. You have to leverage your Authenticity. So

how do you see authenticity kind of go

awry? Well, I think that, you

know, everyone's had a Facebook for about, like, 15 years now or something like The,

something insane. And I think there was a disconnect

And okay. Let's separate our personal account Andrew then let's do our

business account. And while that works in some certain situations, I

really think that In most cases, it doesn't need to be separated

anymore. You can choose what personal aspects of yourself

you are sharing with people. Like, if you don't wanna put your kids on social

media, don't wanna put your kids social media. Right. But it doesn't mean that you

can share your yoga schedule or whatever makes you

happy. Or the fact that you have a kid, you don't have to

put. Right. Like, I just applied for

a a, networking group, and they were like, this will not impact your application,

but It may affect, like, what pairings we

put you in. Do you have kids? And I was like, Not. But I

understand why they're asking that question. Right? So, like Right. I don't have

to put I don't have kids, but, like, I don't have to put pictures of

my kids on the Internet to self identify as a business owner

mother If I were such a thing, which I am not.

Right. Right. Exactly. And I think when you combine the both

of those, especially on social media, You share a piece of

personal, a piece of what I call a date your life of Andrew that can

be anything behind the scenes to make you know, just share what it

takes to do this And then you can talk about your business. People will

remember you as the dog lover or the mom that

sells houses. You know? Yeah. Exactly. They'll be like the chick. What

was the chick with the dogs? Like, how often do you go to a party

and you're like, the one who had the really great jacket. You don't remember the

name, But you remember the jacket, and you're like,

well, that's not gonna help me at all. So then you have to call all

your friends and be like, the one with the jacket. And then somebody, undoubtedly, is

gonna go, Oh, they're so and so. Okay. Riley?

We know. But we don't know unless we're standing out.

At networking groups, I'm known as the girl with the hat and the floral jacket

most of the time. It's usually a floral blazer instead of my Leslie Knope

Blazer. I met you in a

miniskirt and sky high heels.

Yep. They were awesome. Not there's a

pin of Van Gogh in his ear on my jacket. Separated as they

should be. As they should be for

the art historians amongst us.

But, you know, I think He's not today's pop culture

topic, but that's nothing if yeah. One way to

show your affection authentically. Yeah. Chop off your ear and

Mail it to a sex worker. I sure.

I feel like I now I have to be, like, too legitimate to quit, does

not condone self harm in this way, Or mailing any kind

of body parts to anyone. To the official acquire

your body parts to begin with. Official disclaimer. Please

do not Mail anything to me, to Caitlyn, to

anyone involved with either of us. We don't even want you to email that

shit. Not. Thank you. Please seek

immediate mental Sell, care. Right? But

but, you know, there's I think there's something to that there, which is so goofy,

But but true in that there's a powerful

way to show up authentically, and there's a way to show

up Authentically, that robs you of power. So in

an extreme case, we could say

cutting off your ear And mailing it

to someone for attention is authentic, yes, but

authenticity that robs you of power. So how do

we show up authentically in a way that

magnetizes and amplifies our power?

Well, I think that, you know, to begin with, you started your business for a

reason. You have that why, but you also have a why on the other side

of things that fills your cup that's not work. Andrew

so when you show up and share those personal aspects about yourself,

those characteristics, that's what that's

what That's what makes people, you know, invest in you, and

they choose you because of the emotion and experience that you

give them Not It didn't justify the cost later. But it's

boundaried. What I hear in what you're saying is, like, it's

boundaried. Right? And going into today's pop

culture topic, like, Sales, Friends, and Work, Work is

3rd. Right? Right?

And and think about, like, people that we think is kind of, like,

soulless, faceless cogs, like, Government

workers, every single person on parks and

rec has their own brand. Every

single one for good or for Sell.

Some of the brands are on lock. Some of the brands are a hot

mess. What is your name, Gary Gergich? Figure it

out. But, you know, even Leslie

Knope, who is so Completely addicted

to her job and a workaholic and proud of it

reminds everybody, it's Sales, Friends and

work. Work is 3rd. Right?

But she's but she's known for the waffles and the friends.

Absolutely. And the roller skates. And the roller skates and the

filibuster. Right? But the but, you

know, I think it's I I We're only 7 minutes in, so I'm kind of

amazed that I've already thrust this into the pop culture topic. But we're both excited

about it, so let's just lean in. But, you know, the

Looking at personal branding from the lens of Parks and Rec is just too good

not to dive into in that, like, even little Sebastian

has a brand. Like Sebastian.

Little Sebastian is the heart of Pawnee.

Mhmm. Whereas, like, I'm from Missouri. You think I didn't

see tiny ponies, show ponies, shoveling ponies growing up?

Sure. They existed. True is Ben doesn't get

it at all. Oh. So Sell like a Not

people kind of thing. You know? Abso freaking

lutely not. And and then on the go I mean, little Sebastian is the perfect

example because then on the flip side, Ron

Swanson, who is not affected by anything, we see

him cry exactly 3 times in the entire

series. And the one where he cries the

most is at the funeral for little freaking

Sebastian with with Ben, Who's The softy is

like, you what? What?

By the end, he comes around. And so I think that I mean, First

personal branding and the people that you're

well, who are your people? There's a different process Andrew there's a

different flow for each one of them. You have, like, the Totally. The onboard

people from the get go, and then you have the people that need a little

push. Yeah. And then you have these people who are just like,

Ron. You know, it's just Ron. He only

ever cries about steak and ponies. Like, alright. Okay.

That's fine. That's fine. Right. But it's but it's okay because

everyone that loves little Sebastian is proud to buy into the brand.

Mhmm. The littlest park. Like, they had to buy into

the brand of that tiny ass ridiculous

park. They had to be like, we want this park. We know it's

tiny. We know it's kind of stupid. It matters to us.

Let's get this done. Right? But but

every single person in that office, maybe

even every person in Pawnee, I'm looking at you Sue's salads,

Has a personal brand. I think that's part of what makes

them all such strong. Memorable.

Memorable, Lovable characters.

Mhmm. Andrew I it's just fascinating how they, you

know, all work together still and all, you know, Play a different role

to accomplish 1 goal usually Andrew definitely all

different perspectives. But I think authenticity,

To go back to, like, when does authenticity go awry, like,

where does personal branding go awry? I think we have the

incredible example of Tom Haverford,

Because everyone around him is like, your ideas

don't make any sense, Tom. And he's like, no.

It's amazing. It's like right? Like, what is it

entertainment 720? And it's like, What is that

even what is that even mean, dude?

Like, that's these people that come to me with these buzzwords, and they're, like,

So domain expertise specific that I'm like, cool.

You sound really smart and really legitimate, and I have no

idea what you're talking about. And I'm your target market, so that's a

problem. Like, that's entertainment 720. Like, we have

basketball stars and hot tubs. No one knows what we're selling, And our

logo doesn't make sense. Okay. Grab an iPad

on the way out. Yep. Exactly. And so I think

that, you know, You started this. You're passionate about it.

You're killing it. You have a great message. And then, you know, why

not get really good at that one thing first And then do

other things. I mean, Tom is like super innovative Andrew he always

has the next best idea. No The gets it most of the

time, But he's determined. He never gives up.

There's also an idea about toxic partnership in in the

cautionary tale of Tom Haverford. Like, y'all, if you have a

John Ralphio in your life, get them out. Oh,

sure. And don't date his sister. And the last date is

money, please, sister.

Money, please. Money, please. I freaking

love her. But, you know, like because Tom is the one of

many, but Tom is the entrepreneur of the show. And so

it's funny to see him

fail so often that failure kind becomes

his kink and his brand in the end. But in the meantime,

all he was ever wanting to do in any of Tom's

Iterations, rebrands, pivots,

whatever we wanna call it, It was always just whatever

he thought the flashiest thing of the moment is. So, like, he knew a cologne

guy was coming, and so suddenly Who had to come up with Tommy Fresh. And

it's like, That's that's not actually you

innovating, Tom. That's you trying to be

stick. And sometimes we get those things confused. Right? We get

confused between true opportunity, true

innovation, And just trends and low hanging

fruit, I guess? Right. And is when

even when it comes to trends too, If it doesn't match and you're not

trying to dance on TikTok, then why are you? People can

see right through that Andrew they know instantly it's just Reading

body language, they know instantly that you are not comfortable with this.

So how are you gonna get the message of the point across when you don't

even feel confident in what you're doing? You're just

throwing spaghetti at a wall. Well, it's like watching people

really, really, really They tried to get

a trending sound to work for their content that day on

TikTok, and I'm like or you could've just used your own

words. Right? How

many contracts do you just not get because of that? Right. You took 3

hours to do something on TikTok. I mean, take a nap, eat a Andrew.

Brett, take a walk, get some vitamin d, hug

a friend. Like, come on.

Anything is better The, like, well, how do I get it to line up? It's

like, don't. Don't get it to line up. That is a trend, Tom

Haverford.

Riley? But I think that that's important because I think it's also

Parks is a really great example of the fact that even if you

have a brand that is very much

anchored in your personal brand, It never just

touches you. The people that love you buy into your brand. The people that

know you buy into your Andrew, they understand

What's important to you? So spoilers for Parks and

Rec, which came out, like, 20 years ago, but it's not

surprising that Anne could make Leslie's perfect wedding

dress. She's her best friend. Right. It's

so special. Oh, and Right. And, like, She knows what's on

brand. They know that the mural matters to Leslie because Leslie's been

consistent Mhmm. And vocal.

Right? And so, like, if The more you're true

to your personal brand, yes, it's easier for people Who find

you and either love you or be repelled by you, little Sebastian.

But it's also easier for other people to amplify and enhance

The brand with you, for you, which you, as an employer,

understand. You're running an agency. So Right.

Your clients see some of you, but more of The,

but they're still seeing them as an extension of you. So how do

you Sell The process of

opening a personal brand up to involve more

people. How has that unfolding been for you?

Well, I think that it's definitely been interesting because there was a

1 man show up until last year, and then I went from, like, 1 to

8. So that was, you know, quick. Mhmm. Mhmm. So

in body and we work remotely Who. So that gives us an extra

decision. Fun. Culture. Right. And so

it's it's, it's been interesting to see how we can connect everyone and, you know,

do something that includes everyone at the same time besides a

contract, besides a project. And I think

one of the reservations that a lot of people have, especially with

mixing The Personal and business brand together is the

controversial topics. If you have something to say about it, say

something. If you don't, then don't. You don't have to respond to every

single thing Tom have referred. Yeah. Yeah. In

order to get a reaction, Talk about the things that actually mean

something to you. And, yeah, it's gonna repel some people, but

they're never they were gonna be a pain in the ass anyways. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. They're either

gonna take ownership and collaboration energy into it

or they're not. And you have to too. You either have to allow

people to come in or you don't. Right? And you made a conscious

choice to go from 1 to 8 In remote in the middle of a

post pandemic pandemic post pandemic that ends and

never ends all the time. Right? It is. Riley. And it took you know, I

didn't get it right the first time either. I there I think you

should definitely start with just Making sure that there's a

vibe, a good vibe between everyone and you if it just like a

networking event. If you're not feeling it in the gut, then just don't.

And you're usually right. Yeah. Because there's a difference between someone

on your team challenging you, which we want, And

someone on your team being not for you or not for the mission, which

is basically a saboteur intentionally or not. Right?

Like, Not that they're necessarily sitting there being like, I will

destroy copper theory. They're not

doing that, but also at the same point, like, You're on the team or you're

off the team Mhmm. Kind of a thing?

Yep. Right. Oof. And

so yeah. Mhmm. Oof. Right. But

you're right. Like, if it's not gonna vibe, it's not gonna vibe.

And We're all too busy to babysit

bad fits. Right. I mean, if yeah. If it's not part of the

puzzle, then You Not the wrong puzzle.

Oh, we all can't say. If it's not part

of the puzzle, you got the wrong puzzle.

That's awesome. I love that little sound bite. Thank you so much.

But no. It's true. I mean, it's If it's not for you, it's

not for you.

And if it is for you, then you have to Chase and prioritize

it. Not chase like you have to be desperate for it, but you have to

put applied and intentional action toward the

procurement of that Goal, thing Right.

Person, whatever it may be. That's why everyone is trying

to niche down Just something. Mhmm. I mean, you should be have a target

market. I mean, don't tell me you don't because don't lie to me.

But you should know what that is.

You Would fight me later about that one. Be like, y'all

don't get just don't don't fight Caitlyn about niching. Y'all

just don't. It's true.

You just don't know who they are yet. Sorry. Mic drop. I'll leave.

Nope. Stay. Stay. I think

though but if you do when you do do that, you know more about the

people that you're helping. You know more about your people. Know more about your

team. And the more data points you can collect, the better that you're

gonna be at business. Yes. Yes.

Absolutely. A zillion percent. Yeah. She

knows how to appeal to the people of Pawnee, not the people of Eagleton.

Oh, Eagleton. If anyone is listening right now

from Fictional Eagleton, Indiana, we dislike

you. We dislike you Eagletonians. Right? But,

no, that's true too. She is the She is.

And we see this in American politics all the time. That's my

guy. That's not my guy. That's my guy. Right?

Like, Pawneeans, Love or hate. Leslie,

Eagletons are just like, we don't even have to even look at her. Right? But

it should be more repellent. The people that Leslie is gonna

connect with most are the people that also love and

care about their community and love and care that that community

is. Right? That's The same thing.

Their values are their values. Yep. Right? But, like, that's the same thing. It's,

like, Every single person on Parks Rec is Parks and Rec is a great example

of who is not for someone. Like, you wanna tell me

Mouse Rat, the Andrew gonna have international

appeal? Of course, they're not. I have

that shirt. I can't even handle Chris pat Pratt

in his current form. Like, I would have much rather had mouse

rat. Give me Andy back. Andy, give us

Andy back. Right? We miss you. Ugh. Let's talk about someone who

pivoted away from what their marketability was. But, Anyway, that's fine.

That's fine. Right. But, like, mouse rat is a polarizing

band. Right. The

Pawnee goddesses is a polarizing group.

The Swansons, even more so. Right? Like, it's it

just It just is, and and

they allow that to be. But you're right. Okay. So what

is everybody's baggage with niching Or

niching if we're being Eagletonians. So Pawneeans say

niching. Eagletonians say niching.

What's what's the baggage with either? Why do people fight

this so much? Well, I

think in the beginning, you may not know

what that specific niche is, and that's okay. No.

That's not a bad thing. You just, you know, haven't figured it out yet. You

haven't figured out what that sweet spot is. And so maybe

you're trying to appeal to everyone, hence The we don't have a

specific target market. If you pitch to everyone,

everyone thinks you're not pitching to them. Yeah.

And so when you're more specific about it well, I

guess on the other hand too, if you're too specific about it, people think that

they're turning business away. Mhmm.

And I don't think that's true. I don't I think that, again, those people weren't

your people. Right. And so it may not have worked out as

Good as you thought it was going to be, but you don't know.

But I think also emotional niching is a thing we don't think

about a lot. Like, people Well, a lot of time when someone comes to me,

they're like, I have my niche locked down. I'm like, cool. What is it? And

then the first words that come out of their mouth are demographics. And demographics are

important. Yeah. Psychographics is what we need. Right. But,

like, yeah, it doesn't matter all that

much to me that they made $62,000

last year, that their favorite chip is Doritos, And that they

tend to watch the NBC Tuesday night block. Like, I don't

really care about The, and I run a pop culture podcast, and I don't care

about that. Right? Like, I that doesn't do

it for me. So I'm always I take their demographic Horbacio, and I say,

okay. Cool. Let's put that in this column over here,

but let's look at the problems that they want solved because

other than, you know, having to do laundry

Or death and taxes. Not everybody has the same

problem, and we do a disservice of our audience by saying

every 38 year old, you know, black

male in the Midwest who makes $62,000

a year has the exact same wants and needs. Right?

Yeah. It doesn't really give you a name, somebody go, but you can't.

Not. Again, because we're, like, trying to please everybody and

pleasing no one or we're trying to please a phantom instead of pleasing

a real person. Yeah. And I I actually encourage

people to give that a real person's name. Like, make it a

real person. Tell me what they do on the weekends. Tell me if they have

a dog. Tell me, you know, tell me, why they see

the value Andrew what level of you know, what their level of success is. We

Before I work with anybody, we actually conduct a very serious

personal interview, and it takes about an hour. But it's just us getting to know

each other like we have been doing. And what I'm

wondering what their values are. I'm wondering what's important to them. You know, what a

great. That's great. And I know everything about your business Just down to know why

and what you're trying to do. But what about your personal life? What's going on?

You know? Why don't I know what's up? How do you market someone? How do

you market a business of 1 or a business of a few

with a strong personal Riley like, branded

leader? How do you market them? How do you grow that business if you don't

know them? You can't. Yeah. Exactly.

You can't. I mean, end The end detail

Matters in weird ways that we don't quite expect. Like,

on The Not on my website, site. On The

spot on my entire website, it says that I am a

Chicagoan, and I think that deep dish pizza is gross. And this

is buried on my website.

There's all kinds of other weird, Juicy

stuff in my bio and story. Sometimes I hear about

that more, and I'm a lot more vocal about that. Like, yes,

My grandfather was a used car salesman. Yes. My mother is a retired

motivational speaker. Those are things that people find interesting. Yes. I did used to

be a lounge singer. Yes. Yes. Right? All of these different things are true. They

don't pick up on that stuff. The first thing they wanna talk about is damn

deep dish Chicago pizza. And I'm like, that's what brought?

That Sell put you on my camera, like it either. Or they're like,

I don't understand. I love it. I drove 3 miles once For a slice of

deep dish. And I'm like, and you had heartburn the whole way back. We

did. Right? I did. But, like, why

It it the detail matters, and we don't know

what details are gonna be resonant. And so to go back to what you said

at the very beginning, the way that we Amplify our

chances of success is to show up authentically, to lift the

veil, let people see the real us beyond our

work In a boundaried way

Andrew allow them to resonate with us as people, not

just as many corporations.

Mhmm. Yeah. You know? Like like I

mentioned, you know, besides the hat and the blazer, everyone knows that I have a

pitbull Mhmm. At home, and it's just like a weird thing because I'm a

skinny white girl walking down the road with,

a Sell pound gray pit Sell Who rescued

from a dog fighting ring. Might be wearing a Hawaiian

hat. I love true crime. I think

potatoes should be their own food group. Yeah. I love

all of these things about you. And see The things I would see at your

website, it'd be like, I Also love potatoes. Maybe

it's my Irish heritage, but I could eat them all the time.

I also have a dog who's part The doesn't really

matches me at all. And I also tend to wear

loud florals. Like, we knew immediately. We're like, oh, we're gonna be

buds. Yeah. I knew as soon as I walked in that door.

Yeah. We knew. We were like, oh, we're gonna be friends. And then I met

you, Andrew, immediately, I was with our now mutual Fred, Nicole, Iacobodian. I'm like,

you need to go talk to her. She's our people. Like, when you make it

easy to know who you are, you make it easy to know who you

are, period. More trustful.

Right? And it it greases the wheel. Like, I know

How I could support you and your business, and you

know how you Would support me and mine, And you

and I have never had a conversation in the history

of our new friendship where we've only talked about business.

Not. And yet, if you needed to refer me

to The of your clients tomorrow, you would know who to refer and for what,

and so would I. Absolutely. And that's

just because we're friends, and we had a great conversation. Yes.

So let's talk about that Because parks is also a really great

example of The. And this isn't where I was planning on going,

but the the parks office really is That team really is a

family. And I mean for a lot of us, you know, you went

from 0 to 8, and now you have a family of 8.

But For a lot of us, especially before we

make that jump or even while we're making that jump,

a lot of us don't have

A built in work fam or or support system

in that way in our small business or self employment because we're

out on our own. So I feel like

work friendships

Or kind of an interesting thing because at one point, people hear the

term work friendships and go, well, that's not like a real friendship. Like, well

Right. Why couldn't it be? And sometimes it very much is, but, you know, whatever.

Or on the flip side, like, oh, well, I don't have time to make friends.

I'm running a business. So, like,

what what is your stance on

having relationships With

people in your ecosystem that don't always

have to end in some kind of trade or partnership or

profit? I like to

so I've been living in Chandler for a while now, Phoenix

area. I kinda go back and forth. And Chandler is a very tight

knit Community as far as business owners, family, and politics

go. So that if you wanna talk about being intertwined,

That is one heck of an example. Mhmm. And I never

I probably network about 60 hours a month, And

I never walk into a room just to

poach people. I'm it's never my

intention. I'm very Strategic about it, and that's how I decide where to go.

But I think about why people are there to begin with. I think

about why I'm there. It's usually business or social,

so maybe like a happy hour. I think about what the both of us wanna

get out of The situation. And then I just walk

in I kinda just walk in like I know everyone, actually.

But I just walk Walking, I'm willing to have a conversation. I'm

looking for that relationship

because that's Heavily Who we do run business. But I also just

love people. I love talking to people, and I like learning things.

So if you're doing something that I have no idea about, I wanna I wanna

stand in front of you and listen to you talk and ask you weird

questions, and then I'll ask you how I can help you or who you wanna

meet. No. Then you'll not then you'll tell them what their Harry

Potter house is, and then you 2 can talk about that for a while.

Next episode dropping It's a big here. Exactly.

But it's you know, I love that idea because you're talking

about intent, And I feel like intent shows up in every single episode of

The show. Because when you're talking about when you're networking, you

are intending to take up space. You

are intending to leave having met someone, so you don't just do the thing

I used to do when I would let my introversion win and I would, like,

go to an event, stand in a corner, and leave just So I could be

like, well, I went. Like, no. Who. Y'all.

Waste your time then. Right? You can't the wallflower. No.

You're intending to take up space. You're intending to meet someone.

You're intending not to be shy about what makes you brilliant,

And you're intending to learn new stuff from new and exciting people, and

that's it. If you make money, awesome. If you make a new friend, awesome. If

you make a new partnership, awesome. But what I loved about what you said is,

like, I act like I already know everybody.

That's not wallflower energy. It's also not Peacock

energy. You're not being like, I am the mayor of this event. Move aside,

host. It's my show now. You're not doing that either, But you're

showing up like you deserve and belong to be there because

as a business owner in Chandler, you deserve and belong to be

there. Right? And don't and don't stow shop

either. Don't look over someone's shoulder as you're talking to them looking

for someone else better to talk to. Yeah. Because that always

bites you in the ass anyway. Mhmm. Like, that's just a

pretty woman scenario waiting to happen where, like, You ignore the wrong

person Andrew they put you on blast on the Internet, and you deserve it.

Right. Right? Or, like, you go to woo 1

person and don't know that the person you were inadvertently really rude to

is their best friend. You don't know if the person you're being

rude to is the best friend of the person you're

desperately seeking out. So even if you do get FaceTime

with The, they're gonna be like, who'd you meet tonight? And they'd be like, oh,

I met this real bitch named Caitlyn. She was so rude to

me. And then the best friend's gonna be like, oh, I thought she was kinda

nice, but fuck her. Right? Like, that's how this shit happens.

Right. Right. Well, I was, I I so I spoke at a summit last

week, for the Not women and the CEO of

Sprinkles. Was there Oh. You know,

have you had those? I mean, sprinkles cupcakes, are we talking? Yeah. Yeah. I'm seeing

those cupcakes. They have vending machines. Do you think I'm gonna avoid The

Opportunity to get a cupcake out of a vending machine? Are you joking?

You know why she invented those? She was pregnant and wanted a cupcake, and she

already ate the ones in our house that she made.

Find a need and fill it. Find a need and fill it,

people. That's all we gotta do. And then when we

when we did the workshop too, obviously, personal branding and social media,

we, I didn't know it, but the marketing

Team from Buzzballs, those things that you can buy from Those things are

hilarious. Talking about? Those balls of alcohol that are, like,

pina colada flavored and things like that? And they're all, like, neon

green. Yeah. Mhmm. Right. Yeah. Well, I knew that

the CEO was speaking at this Summit but I didn't

realize that her marketing girl Who also accompanied her was

sitting Not our presentation. And so she was asking

questions and things like The. And I was like, oh. And then she said what

she did. I was like, oh. So you never know who you're

talking to Andrew, You know, it's just like treat the you know, Would they treat

the janitor like the CEO, like, The I mean, very

famously, Michael Beckwith from The Secret

and everything else took time after a speech one day

to comfort A woman who came to hear him speak

or preach or something Who was sobbing her ass off in the back of

the room Because she lived in her car and had been so badly

abused her whole life and knew that she wanted to break into TV,

and he just held her told her she had the power to do it, and

that was literally Oprah. Wow.

That was literally Oprah. Like, He could Would

blown her off. He could have been like, okay. Sorry, crying woman. I'm

glad what I said affected you, but, like, I don't think you're gonna pay me

my Giant speaker fees, so I'm gonna move right past you.

No. That's awesome. Who that. You would've he would've

literally, easily, Understandably even

missed out on the chance to make Oprah Oprah.

Like, what?

Imagine if you've ever walked by that opportunity.

Oh my god. I mean, somewhere I have.

I have. Right.

Oh, that's a terrifying question.

All the listeners are going to lay down. They're like, I probably did

accidentally offend Bro. Damn. Oh

god. I was mean to Gail. I farted in an

elevator. I know it. Oh god. What did I do?

I was on a plane next to Stedman, and I didn't even know. None of

you have offended Oprah. Everyone take a breath.

So looking at

The landscape Gabe, of of camaraderie, of business

friendship, of finding your own coworkers or hiring them,

of Clarifying your personal brand of niching

Sell of these things, what haven't we

talked about about our beloved Pawnians yet When it comes to

any of these topics. How Would you market the

Harvest Festival? How would

I market the Harvest Festival now? Mhmm.

What I would do is I would run it like a Chamber of Commerce, and

I would get Everybody in the community

to lean into what they already want to do, which is to take what

our mutual friend, Chris The Grasso, calls inspired ownership,

Which is this is Pawnee's festival, and therefore, Pawnee

needs to show up to make it great because little Sebastian's dead

now. Who has said no. So the whole

thing can't ride on his Riley, horsey

shoulders. Right? Like Right. They're gonna have to figure it out. And

so number 1, I think you kick off with an

annual Little Sebastian Sell of

life, and I think you have mouse rat play

bye bye little Sebastian every year. Oh my god. Your candle

vigil. Get it going. And then beyond there, be like, little

Sebastian's gone. Are you gonna be the new star of the Harvest

Festival Andrew then let them Bring what they wanna bring. How would you market the

Harvest Festival? Oh, okay.

Man, well, I'm gonna go against, your idea, But

you gotta you gotta bring bring Chris Pratt back. Where is

he? You gotta use him. He's he's gotta be

somewhat of the spokesperson. Come on now. Come on now. I know you hate it.

I know you hate it. And we want in the contract to act

like Andy as a clause, please. Yes. Act like Andrew, and

if you could gain some weight, that would be great. Like

I just want, you know, Aubrey Plaza to Have commercials that

say, don't come to the Harvest House. God. That's exactly how

we would do it. We would we would have Aubrey Plaza. We would hire Aubrey

Plaza Looking deadpan at the camera being like,

don't go to the Harvest Festival. It Sell be fun.

There will be food. There will be animals. There

will be people. Don't go. We load Sebastian and

then she runs. That's just right. That's right. Like and this has been

Angela, Gatewire, with the report.

No. That's totally true. Okay. Oh my god. Okay. So 2 more questions For

you. One of them I love this idea of, like, Howard Would. You would leverage

Chris Pratt as he is now. I would hire a Chris Pratt

impersonator to be Andy in the pit I don't wanna tolerate that. But both of

us had the idea of honoring little Sebastian because Right.

Mhmm. Some parts of your brand never die. That's

true. Oh god. I mean, but in in

my own rebrand, I keep talking about, like, I'm using taglines again

I haven't used since 2016. I'm using colors again that I haven't used since

2013. Like, there's this way of things repeating. Some aspects of your

brand and your pivoting will return to you Just like the spirit

of little Sebastian.

Oh, okay. So the The first question

I have for you is, Chandler has decided

to have a festival, and the,

spokes Boy of the festival is your beautiful pit

Sell. Beautiful. What

What events are you basing around your dog?

What personal brand are we building around your dog? Oh

my god. For the people of Chandler,

Arizona? Oh, Who need more dark

parks. Hopelessly

nope on the job. Right? I it's you know what? I find

it interesting that you Picked my dog because I would not

pick a pitbull for the spokesperson of Chandler. Those

people are scared of my dog, So that'll be a time.

Maybe it's the Chandler We're Not Scary Festival.

Right? Don't be scared of Chandler. We have a low

crime rate. Nice people and scary dogs that are not scary at

all.

Andrew your doodles. Oh my god. Yeah. Your goldendoodles

can go back to Scottsdale. We're Chandler.

We're edgy, but not scary.

Yeah. I love that. Well, I think k. So Chandler Chandler is

definitely so there is There are a few different, cities that

are basically we're all Not city before I moved there, but there's Mesa,

Chandler, and Gilbert. Gilbert's Sell the bougier version of

Chandler's trying to get up there and have more accessible programs for people instead

of being so exclusive. So they are like the pawnee.

And then there is Mesa, which is, like, trying

but not quite there yet. So Chandler

Lazy Maybe Mesa needs the Pitbull Festival. Maybe

Mesa needs The like, your I think you should also need the Pitbull

Festival. What? Where? Mesa. You're right.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, they're they need to, like, we're not rough. We're we're loving

Festival. Okay. Cool. We've we've shifted over to Mesa. Good to

know. But for anybody that needs you to run any kind

of a festival, dogs or no dogs, and also, you know, their social or

websites or marketing or helping them excavate their personal

brand out of the muck that they may have accidentally made. What's the best

way for them to start a conversation with you and your team?

We're basically on everything. So hit me up on Instagram,

If you're creative and or, shoot me an email hello@coppertheorycreative.com.

Hello. Oh. Howdy.

Well, I don't really love waffles, but I do love

friends, and I do love work, And I do really, really

love working with my friends today. So in the immortal words of

Leslie Knope, thank you For being here,

you beautiful, radiant, moth, land

mermaid, all the other things she calls Andrew Perkins. Thank you for

being my land mermaid today, Caitlin. Thank you, beautiful

Andy. Y'all, I'll be back in just a second with my

final thought and your homework for this week. Bring your dog. Why

not?

Well, hey there. This week's episode was pop culture

rich. So I'm going to jump right into

this week's homework With a small little

reminder slash caveat, which is just the one Would,

boundaries. There is no need To expose

some part of yourself. I bet I could have

phrased that better, but you get my gist. There's no

reason To do anything ever in your

marketing that truly feels unnatural.

Some details of your life are yours to keep As we talked about in

the episode. So just do a check before this week's homework.

What do you wanna share? What do you not wanna share? What feels uncomfortable

or like you're growing versus what feels unnatural and better

left unspoken? Okay. So as you may have

guessed, your homework this week is to break out

of the mold a little bit and share a glimpse

of Your personal journey, something you're passionate about,

something you love to nerd out about, or something else genuinely

unique about you In either your 1 on 1

client relationships or your outbound social

media content, We really do care about the

person behind the business. Now if you're stuck, consider

sharing something about the experiences that have shaped you, The

challenges that you've overcome or the passions or nerdery

points that currently drive you forward. These

really do go a long way to establish deeper trust

and deeper connection. Crafting a narrative that showcases your

authentic self is a Super powerful tool for capturing the hearts

and minds of your prospects, but you know that. You hear that all the

time. And there's a reason for that. Personal anecdotes,

Pivotal moments including your wins are

really sexy content. Why? Because we

See the real you in a way that we almost never

see from the big brands. We're inviting

our prospects Into a larger, better

story. So this week, I encourage you, put pen to

paper The topic yourself, and just let the words

flow. What do you feel like sharing? I can't wait to find out.

Hey. Thanks for listening. If this episode kept you laughing and

learning, I have 2 requests for you. 1st, make sure

you hit that Subscribe or follow button depending on your platform

so you never miss an episode. And, also,

more importantly, If you are looking for support,

inspiration, networking, collaborations, or just

a chance to hang out with me, Annie P Ruggles, And our fantastic

guests, make sure that you are a member of our

LinkedIn community, The Legitimati. It is a weird

and wonderful place. I can't even believe it's on LinkedIn, and

we want you there. You'll find the link in the show notes.

Big shout out as always to the fabulous dudes who helped me make

this show, my producer and editor, Andrew Sims of

Hypable Impact, My theme composer, Riley

Horbacio, and my show art creator,