PRODUCER: Please note this podcast contains mention of

PRODUCER: child sexual abuse.

PRODUCER: In

PRODUCER: 2015, the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual

PRODUCER: Abuse was set up to investigate where

PRODUCER: institutions failed to protect children in their

PRODUCER: care.

PRODUCER: The Inquiry's final report, published in October

PRODUCER: 2022, laid out a set of powerful recommendations

PRODUCER: to address past failings and protect future

PRODUCER: generations of children from abuse.

PRODUCER: Recommendations for Change is a five-part

PRODUCER: podcast series from NSPCC Learning, examining

PRODUCER: why these recommendations are needed, how

PRODUCER: they'll work if implemented, and what impact

PRODUCER: they will have on the prevention of child sexual

PRODUCER: abuse.

PRODUCER: Episode one: an introduction to IICSA.

PRODUCER: Child sexual abuse, abbreviated to CSA,

PRODUCER: is when a child is forced or persuaded to take

PRODUCER: part in sexual activities.

PRODUCER: This may involve physical contact or non-contact

PRODUCER: activities and can happen online or offline.

PRODUCER: Experiencing sexual abuse can have a long

PRODUCER: lasting negative impact on a child's well-being

PRODUCER: that can reach into adulthood.

PRODUCER: The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse,

PRODUCER: commonly abbreviated to IICSA, was a

PRODUCER: comprehensive examination of institutional

PRODUCER: failings to protect children from this kind of

PRODUCER: abuse.

PRODUCER: You're probably listening to this podcast in

PRODUCER: 2024.

PRODUCER: Over a year has passed since the inquiry

PRODUCER: published its final report.

PRODUCER: Although the work of the inquiry has now been

PRODUCER: completed, the work of the NSPCC and other child

PRODUCER: protection organisations continues.

PRODUCER: We want to ensure that IICSA is not a wasted

PRODUCER: opportunity for the change that is needed to

PRODUCER: protect children from future harm, and that

PRODUCER: the recommendations do lead to improvements in

PRODUCER: the safeguarding systems across the UK.

PRODUCER: In this podcast series, we'll be speaking with a

PRODUCER: range of experts from both inside and outside of

PRODUCER: the NSPCC, who will break down why the

PRODUCER: recommendations are needed, what problems they

PRODUCER: seek to address and how they might work if

PRODUCER: implemented.

PRODUCER: But first, let's learn more about how the

PRODUCER: inquiry was set up.

PRODUCER: Here's Peter Wanless, the NSPCC's Chief

PRODUCER: Executive, with a brief overview.

PETER WANLESS: There were a cluster of very high-profile

PETER WANLESS: stories about terrible things

PETER WANLESS: that had happened in terms of child

PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse in and around

PETER WANLESS: a number of institutions, and this

PETER WANLESS: culminated in determination at

PETER WANLESS: the highest level to understand

PETER WANLESS: what it was that had been going on and

PETER WANLESS: what lessons might be learnt for the

PETER WANLESS: future. So Theresa May, who was then the

PETER WANLESS: Home Secretary, announced that there would

PETER WANLESS: be this public inquiry, the Independent

PETER WANLESS: Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, to

PETER WANLESS: consider the extent to which state and

PETER WANLESS: non-state institutions had failed in their

PETER WANLESS: duty of care to protect children from

PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse and exploitation;

PETER WANLESS: to consider the extent to which those

PETER WANLESS: failings had since been addressed;

PETER WANLESS: to identify further action that was needed

PETER WANLESS: to address any failings that were

PETER WANLESS: identified; and to consider what steps

PETER WANLESS: it would be necessary for the state and

PETER WANLESS: non-state institutions to take in order to

PETER WANLESS: protect children from such abuse in the

PETER WANLESS: future. So it was a massive undertaking

PETER WANLESS: and an important one to which

PETER WANLESS: many people were compelled

PETER WANLESS: under legal oath to submit

PETER WANLESS: material and to give witness statements

PETER WANLESS: in order to investigate these child

PETER WANLESS: protection failures and to determine what

PETER WANLESS: should be done next.

PRODUCER: What did the NSPCC do to support the work of the

PRODUCER: inquiry?

PETER WANLESS: So, across the entirety

PETER WANLESS: of the inquiry, the NSPCC submitted

PETER WANLESS: a great deal of information.

PETER WANLESS: Formally, evidence was sought from us

PETER WANLESS: for nine of the investigations, which

PETER WANLESS: included investigations into residential

PETER WANLESS: schools, the internet, religious

PETER WANLESS: organisations and child exploitation.

PETER WANLESS: So we provided witness statements, we

PETER WANLESS: offered data from our helplines,

PETER WANLESS: we searched our records, we produced

PETER WANLESS: briefing papers, and NSPCC

PETER WANLESS: staff gave evidence at the public

PETER WANLESS: hearings. And I remember very

PETER WANLESS: clearly giving evidence myself, as

PETER WANLESS: the NSPCC chief executive, in December

PETER WANLESS: 2020, in relation to the

PETER WANLESS: work that IICSA was doing to understand

PETER WANLESS: what effective leadership looked

PETER WANLESS: like in this space.

PRODUCER: What was that experience like?

PETER WANLESS: Yeah, there's nothing quite like giving

PETER WANLESS: evidence under oath to concentrate the

PETER WANLESS: mind. I gave my evidence during

PETER WANLESS: the lockdown.

PETER WANLESS: I remember vividly receiving a

PETER WANLESS: secure laptop and

PETER WANLESS: all the technology necessary to

PETER WANLESS: establish a secure link between myself

PETER WANLESS: and those who were interrogating me as

PETER WANLESS: a part of this inquiry.

PETER WANLESS: It was...

PETER WANLESS: It was a privilege.

PETER WANLESS: And it was a really important thing to do

PETER WANLESS: at that moment in time.

PETER WANLESS: But for me, it also really clarified

PETER WANLESS: and reminded for me, as

PETER WANLESS: a leader of a significant organisation,

PETER WANLESS: what it really means to put

PETER WANLESS: safeguarding and child protection

PETER WANLESS: absolutely at the centre of one's

PETER WANLESS: organisation, not just in terms of

PETER WANLESS: policies and procedures, but also in terms

PETER WANLESS: of culture and setting that

PETER WANLESS: priority and expectation.

PETER WANLESS: So, the very experience of

PETER WANLESS: giving evidence personally, I think,

PETER WANLESS: changed for me

PETER WANLESS: the priority and the focus that I placed

PETER WANLESS: on this issue.

PETER WANLESS: And I say that in the context of

PETER WANLESS: an organisation that spends its entire

PETER WANLESS: time focused about and thinking on issues

PETER WANLESS: to do with child protection.

PETER WANLESS: So we are all learning all the time and

PETER WANLESS: need to be vigilant when it comes to

PETER WANLESS: keeping children safe.

PRODUCER: And finally, for you, what are the most

PRODUCER: important learnings that we can take away from

PRODUCER: the IICSA final report?

PETER WANLESS: When IICSA published its final report,

PETER WANLESS: there were 20 interlocking recommendations

PETER WANLESS: which, taken together, would constitute

PETER WANLESS: a step change in the nation's

PETER WANLESS: ability to prevent the

PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse of children.

PETER WANLESS: These are all important recommendations,

PETER WANLESS: and one of the risks that we now

PETER WANLESS: face in terms of implementing the report

PETER WANLESS: is that, the government picks

PETER WANLESS: and chooses certain recommendations

PETER WANLESS: that are perhaps easier to implement

PETER WANLESS: than others, and taking things

PETER WANLESS: forward in a partial and

PETER WANLESS: incoherent way will not

PETER WANLESS: achieve the ambition

PETER WANLESS: for positive change that the inquiry

PETER WANLESS: set out.

PETER WANLESS: For me, it's important that we

PETER WANLESS: understand the knowledge and understanding

PETER WANLESS: and appreciation of what child sexual abuse

PETER WANLESS: looks like. The consistency with

PETER WANLESS: which that abuse is reported

PETER WANLESS: is important.

PETER WANLESS: The roles and accountabilities and the

PETER WANLESS: skills that those who the reports are made

PETER WANLESS: to; that's important.

PETER WANLESS: The remedial therapeutic support

PETER WANLESS: for those who have experienced child

PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse; that's really important.

PETER WANLESS: The data, the way in which we know and

PETER WANLESS: understand the nature and the scale of the

PETER WANLESS: problem; that's important.

PETER WANLESS: And it's the combination of these things

PETER WANLESS: together that will achieve, for me,

PETER WANLESS: the three critical changes

PETER WANLESS: which we need to see.

PETER WANLESS: The first of those is there needs to be a

PETER WANLESS: step change in the policy environment

PETER WANLESS: and the resourcing and support which

PETER WANLESS: government gives to our child

PETER WANLESS: protection system and the wider knowledge

PETER WANLESS: and understanding of what needs to be done

PETER WANLESS: to keep children safe.

PETER WANLESS: The second piece is that many, many more

PETER WANLESS: institutions — I include the NSPCC in that

PETER WANLESS: — but all of us can play a part

PETER WANLESS: in being vigilant, in knowing and

PETER WANLESS: understanding how our safeguarding

PETER WANLESS: arrangements are ever alert

PETER WANLESS: to the vital importance of

PETER WANLESS: preventing the abuse of children.

PETER WANLESS: And thirdly, the inquiry did a

PETER WANLESS: brilliant job of put in the voices on the

PETER WANLESS: perspectives of victims and survivors

PETER WANLESS: themselves front and centre in these

PETER WANLESS: debates and discussions.

PETER WANLESS: And so, I believe we owe it

PETER WANLESS: to the thousands of them

PETER WANLESS: who had the courage to contribute

PETER WANLESS: to this inquiry to ensure there's a

PETER WANLESS: decisive and coherent response

PETER WANLESS: to the recommendations that the inquiry

PETER WANLESS: has made. And that is not

PETER WANLESS: proving to be entirely straightforward.

PETER WANLESS: So, there are many of us, institutions

PETER WANLESS: and individuals, who want to

PETER WANLESS: continue to bang the drum and

PETER WANLESS: remind government institutions,

PETER WANLESS: organisations, the wider public, that

PETER WANLESS: there's a job to be done to keep children

PETER WANLESS: safer from child sexual abuse than

PETER WANLESS: may be the case at the moment.

PETER WANLESS: We can all play a part in that.

PETER WANLESS: Government needs to give a lead, and we

PETER WANLESS: must continue to listen

PETER WANLESS: very carefully to victims and survivors

PETER WANLESS: of child sexual abuse themselves, including

PETER WANLESS: young people who, sadly,

PETER WANLESS: are experiencing these crimes against

PETER WANLESS: them today.

PRODUCER: As Peter says, victims and survivors of child

PRODUCER: sexual abuse played a key role in informing the

PRODUCER: work of the inquiry.

PRODUCER: To ensure their needs and voices were

PRODUCER: represented in their work, IICSA set up the

PRODUCER: victims and survivors consultative panel, or

PRODUCER: VSCP.

PRODUCER: The VSCP provided input across all areas

PRODUCER: of IICSA's work.

PRODUCER: They were instrumental in establishing IICSA's

PRODUCER: Truth Project, which gave over 6,200

PRODUCER: victims and survivors the opportunity to share

PRODUCER: their experiences of child sexual abuse with the

PRODUCER: inquiry.

PRODUCER: The first section of the IICSA final report

PRODUCER: contains anonymised extracts from these

PRODUCER: testimonies, and we advise listeners to read

PRODUCER: these to get a full understanding of the

PRODUCER: devastating impact of CSA on victims

PRODUCER: and survivors.

PRODUCER: By speaking publicly about their experiences,

PRODUCER: members of the VSCP and the Truth Project

PRODUCER: elevated public awareness of child sexual abuse.

PRODUCER: However, IICSA identified that there is still

PRODUCER: more work to be done to empower conversation

PRODUCER: around the issue.

PRODUCER: Recommendation four of the IICSA final report

PRODUCER: advises that the UK government and the Welsh

PRODUCER: government commission regular programmes of

PRODUCER: activity to increase public awareness about

PRODUCER: child sexual abuse and how to respond to it.

PRODUCER: For this podcast series, I spoke to Lisa

PRODUCER: McCrindle, Assistant Director for Policy,

PRODUCER: Communications and Strategic Influence at the

PRODUCER: Centre of Expertise on Child Sexual Abuse, the

PRODUCER: CSA Centre.

PRODUCER: During our conversation, she explained why it's

PRODUCER: so important that we continue to confront the

PRODUCER: difficult topic of child sexual abuse.

LISA MCCRINDLE: So I think it's really important because

LISA MCCRINDLE: it's something we'd rather wasn't happening

LISA MCCRINDLE: and we'd rather not talk about it.

LISA MCCRINDLE: And the reality is that far more children

LISA MCCRINDLE: are being sexually abused than that come

LISA MCCRINDLE: to the attention of services as the all of

LISA MCCRINDLE: those — I think there were only over 6000

LISA MCCRINDLE: submissions to the Truth Project — most of

LISA MCCRINDLE: them hadn't told anybody until they were

LISA MCCRINDLE: adults or much later in life.

LISA MCCRINDLE: They certainly didn't get the support they

LISA MCCRINDLE: needed at the time that that harm was

LISA MCCRINDLE: happening. And what contributes to that is

LISA MCCRINDLE: this general sense of, you know,

LISA MCCRINDLE: understandably, child sexual abuse is not

LISA MCCRINDLE: a nice thing to think about. It's not

LISA MCCRINDLE: something pleasant. And we'd rather it

LISA MCCRINDLE: wasn't happening.

LISA MCCRINDLE: So if we're going to tackle it and if

LISA MCCRINDLE: we're going to address those things that

LISA MCCRINDLE: make us feel uncomfortable, we need to be

LISA MCCRINDLE: getting more comfortable at talking about

LISA MCCRINDLE: it. We need to be less worried about

LISA MCCRINDLE: talking about it and feeling more able to

LISA MCCRINDLE: have those conversations and tackle those

LISA MCCRINDLE: difficult issues that we might otherwise

LISA MCCRINDLE: want to shy away from.

LISA MCCRINDLE: I think it's really important that those

LISA MCCRINDLE: conversations are continually happening.

LISA MCCRINDLE: I think... And in many ways, an awful lot

LISA MCCRINDLE: of people across the country will never

LISA MCCRINDLE: have heard about the Independent Inquiry

LISA MCCRINDLE: into Child Sexual Abuse. It won't have

LISA MCCRINDLE: been on their radar. They might have seen

LISA MCCRINDLE: something in the press, but the IICSA

LISA MCCRINDLE: inquiry probably doesn't mean a great deal

LISA MCCRINDLE: to most people if you talk to them on the

LISA MCCRINDLE: street. But what it did do, and through

LISA MCCRINDLE: the continuous investigations that came

LISA MCCRINDLE: out during the whole of the inquiry and

LISA MCCRINDLE: the report, is continually give us new

LISA MCCRINDLE: insights and new understandings around the

LISA MCCRINDLE: nature of that harm that had been

LISA MCCRINDLE: happening and why those things hadn't been

LISA MCCRINDLE: identified and where the failings need to

LISA MCCRINDLE: be addressed. So that was continually

LISA MCCRINDLE: bringing that to the fore.

LISA MCCRINDLE: And what that's really important for is

LISA MCCRINDLE: one, it keeps it front and foremost in

LISA MCCRINDLE: terms of policy and practitioners and

LISA MCCRINDLE: people that are making decisions about how

LISA MCCRINDLE: do we respond to this in day-to-day life.

LISA MCCRINDLE: But it's really important for victims and

LISA MCCRINDLE: survivors to hear that their experiences

LISA MCCRINDLE: aren't in the shadows and their experiences

LISA MCCRINDLE: are acknowledged. For me, there's a really

LISA MCCRINDLE: tangible impact that that has.

LISA MCCRINDLE: Before I came to work at the CSA Centre, I

LISA MCCRINDLE: worked at the NSPCC, and while I was

LISA MCCRINDLE: working there, the scandal about the

LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse of boys in major football

LISA MCCRINDLE: clubs came to light and the NSPCC

LISA MCCRINDLE: set up a helpline in response to that.

LISA MCCRINDLE: Now, immediately after that reporting of

LISA MCCRINDLE: that case, there was literally thousands

LISA MCCRINDLE: of calls that came into that helpline from

LISA MCCRINDLE: a whole range of young people who had been

LISA MCCRINDLE: — well, adults and children — who had been

LISA MCCRINDLE: harmed in sport settings and other

LISA MCCRINDLE: settings like that. But they'd not felt

LISA MCCRINDLE: able to have their abuse acknowledged

LISA MCCRINDLE: before because it hadn't been talked

LISA MCCRINDLE: about. And I think it's really important

LISA MCCRINDLE: that we talk about the different ways in

LISA MCCRINDLE: which this abuse does happen to people,

LISA MCCRINDLE: because that gives confidence, it

LISA MCCRINDLE: validates. Everything that happens to

LISA MCCRINDLE: victims tells them that maybe they're

LISA MCCRINDLE: imagining it, or they have a fault in it,

LISA MCCRINDLE: or they have some responsibility for it.

LISA MCCRINDLE: And all of these things are silencing.

LISA MCCRINDLE: And what we do when we talk about sexual

LISA MCCRINDLE: abuse is we strip that power of that

LISA MCCRINDLE: silence away.

LISA MCCRINDLE: IICSA was really important in doing that

LISA MCCRINDLE: over a period of time, and it's really

LISA MCCRINDLE: important that those organisations that

LISA MCCRINDLE: have been involved in it and have a role

LISA MCCRINDLE: to play continue to have that

LISA MCCRINDLE: conversation.

PRODUCER: At the NSPCC, we believe everyone needs to be

PRODUCER: aware of the IICSA findings, but particularly

PRODUCER: anyone working or volunteering with children and

PRODUCER: young people. Many of the recommendations in the

PRODUCER: final report will directly affect safeguarding

PRODUCER: professionals and the work they do, as the

PRODUCER: NSPCC's Director of Strategy and Knowledge,

PRODUCER: Maria Neophytou, explains here.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: A central tenet of the NSPCC's strategy

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: is that we are all responsible for

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: keeping children safe.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: The work of IICSA is, of course,

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: particularly important for professionals

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: working and volunteering with children,

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: and understanding the findings is helpful

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: in that professionals are in a unique

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: position to recognise the signs of abuse

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: and take action to prevent it.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: IICSA's findings also demonstrate that we

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: need wholesale change in how child sexual

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: abuse is tackled, and safeguarding

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: professionals will play a crucial role in

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: driving these changes.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: Some of those recommendations will

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: directly affect the work of safeguarding

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: professionals. So, for example, there

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: were recommendations and proposals around

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: mandatory reporting, around

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: systemic changes like the creation of

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: child protection authorities and

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: ministers and strategies for children

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: in England and Wales. As well as those

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: systemic changes that are proposed, the

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: report itself is a body of knowledge that

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: is very useful for safeguarding

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: professionals to be aware of and delve

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: into. It's a vital evidence base for

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: practitioners who are involved in

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: safeguarding decisions.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: For instance, in the first part of the

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: report, victims and survivors of child

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: sexual abuse describe their experiences

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: in their own words, and these powerful

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: testimonies are critical for

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: professionals to understand the

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: experiences that victims and survivors

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: had, the impact that it had, and the

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: nature of the response.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: The inquiry published 24 research reports

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: on a range of topics, including support

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: services, online-facilitated abuse,

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: schools, children's homes and residential

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: care, and custodial settings.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: And it also published statistical reports

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: on a quarterly basis until the first

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: quarter of 2022.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: So, as a body of evidence, it's

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: unparalleled in its scope and its

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: relevance to everyday practice

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: and safeguarding.

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: Ultimately, the recommendations from

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: IICSA should provide the foundation for a

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: robust safeguarding system that protects

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: children from abuse, and the NSPCC will,

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: of course, continue to call for the

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: implementation of the recommendations,

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: the strengthening of preventative

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: measures, more therapeutic and support

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: services for children, and a more

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: coherent and systemic response from

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: government and all those in positions of

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: decision-making and positions in child

MARIA NEOPHYTOU: protection.

PRODUCER: As Maria says, professionals working with

PRODUCER: children and young people have a crucial role to

PRODUCER: play in preventing abuse and neglect.

PRODUCER: I asked Lisa McCrindle what advice she would

PRODUCER: offer professionals on how they can improve

PRODUCER: their ability to identify and respond to CSA.

LISA MCCRINDLE: At the CSA Centre we pretty much always

LISA MCCRINDLE: start with the 101.

LISA MCCRINDLE: So, this isn't about complex, deep

LISA MCCRINDLE: knowledge about sexual abuse.

LISA MCCRINDLE: You don't need to be an expert in child

LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse. Most of the professionals

LISA MCCRINDLE: we're talking about, their job is to work

LISA MCCRINDLE: with children and to understand children.

LISA MCCRINDLE: What prevents really good practice in

LISA MCCRINDLE: response to child sexual abuse is often

LISA MCCRINDLE: just feeling uncomfortable about sexual

LISA MCCRINDLE: abuse and worrying about it.

LISA MCCRINDLE: So, the first thing that professionals can

LISA MCCRINDLE: do is to get comfortable with talking

LISA MCCRINDLE: about sexual abuse, to understand child

LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse more, to understand that it

LISA MCCRINDLE: is much more common than they will think.

LISA MCCRINDLE: There is often this idea that it's quite

LISA MCCRINDLE: rare, but what the data tells us from

LISA MCCRINDLE: surveys with children and with adults,

LISA MCCRINDLE: is that child sexual abuse is just as

LISA MCCRINDLE: common as emotional abuse and domestic

LISA MCCRINDLE: abuse and neglect.

LISA MCCRINDLE: So, you know, we should be expecting to

LISA MCCRINDLE: see that just as much as we're seeing

LISA MCCRINDLE: those other forms of harm.

LISA MCCRINDLE: And yet, what we do find in service data

LISA MCCRINDLE: is that far less sexual abuse is

LISA MCCRINDLE: identified. And that's what we see coming

LISA MCCRINDLE: through in the Truth Project, with so many

LISA MCCRINDLE: of those victims and survivors whose harm

LISA MCCRINDLE: was never identified while they were

LISA MCCRINDLE: children, and they go on to experience

LISA MCCRINDLE: that in silencel.

LISA MCCRINDLE: So, in terms of what can professionals do:

LISA MCCRINDLE: number one, familiarise yourself

LISA MCCRINDLE: with an understanding about child sexual

LISA MCCRINDLE: abuse. Be aware that it's much more common

LISA MCCRINDLE: than you may think. So, we would expect

LISA MCCRINDLE: that 1 in 10 children by the age of 16

LISA MCCRINDLE: will have experienced some form of child

LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse.

LISA MCCRINDLE: Then the next thing that what we find that

LISA MCCRINDLE: prevents professionals addressing child

LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse is feeling uncomfortable

LISA MCCRINDLE: talking about it and talking to children

LISA MCCRINDLE: about their concerns.

LISA MCCRINDLE: So again, getting comfortable with that,

LISA MCCRINDLE: thinking about how you would have those

LISA MCCRINDLE: conversations, potentially even with your

LISA MCCRINDLE: colleagues practising those conversations.

LISA MCCRINDLE: How would you do that and how are you

LISA MCCRINDLE: going to respond if a child does give you

LISA MCCRINDLE: either a direct indication that

LISA MCCRINDLE: something's happening or perhaps an indirect

LISA MCCRINDLE: indication that something's happening and

LISA MCCRINDLE: you need to respond to that? I would say

LISA MCCRINDLE: that you don't need to do that on your own.

LISA MCCRINDLE: There are lots of resources out there to

LISA MCCRINDLE: support professionals in doing that.

LISA MCCRINDLE: And when I say professionals, again, I'm

LISA MCCRINDLE: talking about all of those different

LISA MCCRINDLE: professionals that work with children.

LISA MCCRINDLE: What we do know is that children are more

LISA MCCRINDLE: likely to be confiding in people that they

LISA MCCRINDLE: know and trust. So, those individuals

LISA MCCRINDLE: that have a trusted relationship with

LISA MCCRINDLE: children are much more likely to be the

LISA MCCRINDLE: ones that can identify concerns

LISA MCCRINDLE: in the child's behaviour, in the behaviour

LISA MCCRINDLE: of those around them, but can also then

LISA MCCRINDLE: maybe be the people that children will be

LISA MCCRINDLE: able to tell if they support them to do

LISA MCCRINDLE: so. So we have resources available for

LISA MCCRINDLE: that. In terms of understanding, our key

LISA MCCRINDLE: messages from research series are really,

LISA MCCRINDLE: really succinct summaries of the research

LISA MCCRINDLE: evidence around a whole different range of

LISA MCCRINDLE: aspects of child sexual abuse they are

LISA MCCRINDLE: completely readable with a cup of coffee

LISA MCCRINDLE: and a slice of cake, with your elevenses

LISA MCCRINDLE: as a professional, and you could get the

LISA MCCRINDLE: key bits of information that just gives

LISA MCCRINDLE: you the knowledge and the confidence.

LISA MCCRINDLE: We then have a series of practice

LISA MCCRINDLE: resources that help professionals to

LISA MCCRINDLE: understand the signs and indicators of

LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse, to think about how they

LISA MCCRINDLE: would communicate with children about

LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse. So, understanding what are

LISA MCCRINDLE: the barriers that prevent children from

LISA MCCRINDLE: talking about it, and how can they, as

LISA MCCRINDLE: professionals, support children?

LISA MCCRINDLE: We have resources around supporting

LISA MCCRINDLE: parents and carers. As I said, parents and

LISA MCCRINDLE: carers are really the key to supporting

LISA MCCRINDLE: children. They spend the most time with

LISA MCCRINDLE: them and they're going to have the biggest impact

LISA MCCRINDLE: on child's recovery. So, really important

LISA MCCRINDLE: to support parents and carers.

LISA MCCRINDLE: So there is lots of information out there

LISA MCCRINDLE: in terms of the resources available as

LISA MCCRINDLE: well as the training that we offer at the

LISA MCCRINDLE: CSA Centre.

PRODUCER: At the NSPCC, we recognise that the work of

PRODUCER: professionals involved in safeguarding can be

PRODUCER: challenging, and we will continue to strive to

PRODUCER: provide you with the support you need to best

PRODUCER: protect children.

PRODUCER: Here's Peter Wanless once more.

PETER WANLESS: My message to those people

PETER WANLESS: who are working directly and indirectly

PETER WANLESS: with children who are at risk of child

PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse, or who have experienced that,

PETER WANLESS: is: thank you for everything which you

PETER WANLESS: do to help these children.

PETER WANLESS: It's much more difficult than it

PETER WANLESS: might be as a consequence of so

PETER WANLESS: many of you working in a system that can

PETER WANLESS: feel dysfunctional, disconnected,

PETER WANLESS: insufficiently resourced and supported, and

PETER WANLESS: with many people around you having multiple

PETER WANLESS: priorities that don't always seem to put

PETER WANLESS: the victims and the potential victims of

PETER WANLESS: child sexual abuse front and centre.

PETER WANLESS: I acknowledge that.

PETER WANLESS: The inquiry acknowledges that and

PETER WANLESS: sets out an ambitious agenda

PETER WANLESS: for positive change.

PETER WANLESS: So, in the hurly-burly

PETER WANLESS: and pressures of those of you who work

PETER WANLESS: with children continuing to do that vitally

PETER WANLESS: important work, when it sometimes feels

PETER WANLESS: against the odds, be assured that

PETER WANLESS: there are many of us who are going to

PETER WANLESS: continue to press for and

PETER WANLESS: argue the case for decisive change

PETER WANLESS: to secure a better organised, resourced

PETER WANLESS: and supported national approach to

PETER WANLESS: keeping children safe from child sexual

PETER WANLESS: abuse.

PRODUCER: Thanks to Maria Neophytou, Lisa McCrindle and

PRODUCER: Peter Wanless.

PRODUCER: You can find a link to the CSA Centre's key

PRODUCER: messages from research series, as well as other

PRODUCER: resources around recognising and responding to

PRODUCER: child sexual abuse, in the podcast show notes.

PRODUCER: In the next episode of Recommendations for

PRODUCER: Change, we'll be looking at the importance of

PRODUCER: data to child protection.

PRODUCER: How does gathering and analysing data help us to

PRODUCER: effectively respond to child sexual abuse?

PRODUCER: If you've been affected by any of the issues

PRODUCER: raised in this podcast, you can reach out to the

PRODUCER: NSPCC Helpline for support.

PRODUCER: Call 0808 800 5000

PRODUCER: or email help@nspcc.org.uk.

PRODUCER: This podcast series was produced in Autumn 2023.

PRODUCER: All information was correct at the time of

PRODUCER: recording, but the world of child protection is

PRODUCER: ever-changing.

PRODUCER: To stay up to date, visit the NSPCC Learning

PRODUCER: website at nspcc.org.uk/learning.