1 00:00:00,390 --> 00:00:03,299 PRODUCER: Please note this podcast contains mention of 2 00:00:03,300 --> 00:00:04,284 PRODUCER: child sexual abuse. 3 00:00:04,285 --> 00:00:05,285 PRODUCER: In 4 00:00:13,980 --> 00:00:17,219 PRODUCER: 2015, the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual 5 00:00:17,220 --> 00:00:19,319 PRODUCER: Abuse was set up to investigate where 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,749 PRODUCER: institutions failed to protect children in their 7 00:00:21,750 --> 00:00:22,750 PRODUCER: care. 8 00:00:23,490 --> 00:00:26,399 PRODUCER: The Inquiry's final report, published in October 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,879 PRODUCER: 2022, laid out a set of powerful recommendations 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,548 PRODUCER: to address past failings and protect future 11 00:00:32,549 --> 00:00:34,560 PRODUCER: generations of children from abuse. 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,979 PRODUCER: Recommendations for Change is a five-part 13 00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:41,249 PRODUCER: podcast series from NSPCC Learning, examining 14 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,499 PRODUCER: why these recommendations are needed, how 15 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:46,469 PRODUCER: they'll work if implemented, and what impact 16 00:00:46,470 --> 00:00:48,749 PRODUCER: they will have on the prevention of child sexual 17 00:00:48,750 --> 00:00:49,750 PRODUCER: abuse. 18 00:00:52,060 --> 00:00:54,755 PRODUCER: Episode one: an introduction to IICSA. 19 00:00:59,130 --> 00:01:02,159 PRODUCER: Child sexual abuse, abbreviated to CSA, 20 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,559 PRODUCER: is when a child is forced or persuaded to take 21 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,049 PRODUCER: part in sexual activities. 22 00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:09,749 PRODUCER: This may involve physical contact or non-contact 23 00:01:09,750 --> 00:01:13,829 PRODUCER: activities and can happen online or offline. 24 00:01:13,830 --> 00:01:15,869 PRODUCER: Experiencing sexual abuse can have a long 25 00:01:15,870 --> 00:01:18,539 PRODUCER: lasting negative impact on a child's well-being 26 00:01:18,540 --> 00:01:20,939 PRODUCER: that can reach into adulthood. 27 00:01:20,940 --> 00:01:23,999 PRODUCER: The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, 28 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,429 PRODUCER: commonly abbreviated to IICSA, was a 29 00:01:26,430 --> 00:01:28,979 PRODUCER: comprehensive examination of institutional 30 00:01:28,980 --> 00:01:31,169 PRODUCER: failings to protect children from this kind of 31 00:01:31,170 --> 00:01:32,519 PRODUCER: abuse. 32 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,439 PRODUCER: You're probably listening to this podcast in 33 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,119 PRODUCER: 2024. 34 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,219 PRODUCER: Over a year has passed since the inquiry 35 00:01:38,220 --> 00:01:40,679 PRODUCER: published its final report. 36 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,479 PRODUCER: Although the work of the inquiry has now been 37 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,539 PRODUCER: completed, the work of the NSPCC and other child 38 00:01:45,540 --> 00:01:48,239 PRODUCER: protection organisations continues. 39 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,699 PRODUCER: We want to ensure that IICSA is not a wasted 40 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:53,069 PRODUCER: opportunity for the change that is needed to 41 00:01:53,070 --> 00:01:56,009 PRODUCER: protect children from future harm, and that 42 00:01:56,010 --> 00:01:58,409 PRODUCER: the recommendations do lead to improvements in 43 00:01:58,410 --> 00:02:01,259 PRODUCER: the safeguarding systems across the UK. 44 00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:03,299 PRODUCER: In this podcast series, we'll be speaking with a 45 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:06,329 PRODUCER: range of experts from both inside and outside of 46 00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:09,149 PRODUCER: the NSPCC, who will break down why the 47 00:02:09,150 --> 00:02:11,789 PRODUCER: recommendations are needed, what problems they 48 00:02:11,790 --> 00:02:14,429 PRODUCER: seek to address and how they might work if 49 00:02:14,430 --> 00:02:15,869 PRODUCER: implemented. 50 00:02:15,870 --> 00:02:17,969 PRODUCER: But first, let's learn more about how the 51 00:02:17,970 --> 00:02:19,709 PRODUCER: inquiry was set up. 52 00:02:19,710 --> 00:02:22,229 PRODUCER: Here's Peter Wanless, the NSPCC's Chief 53 00:02:22,230 --> 00:02:24,659 PRODUCER: Executive, with a brief overview. 54 00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:26,939 PETER WANLESS: There were a cluster of very high-profile 55 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,529 PETER WANLESS: stories about terrible things 56 00:02:31,530 --> 00:02:34,499 PETER WANLESS: that had happened in terms of child 57 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:37,709 PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse in and around 58 00:02:37,710 --> 00:02:40,529 PETER WANLESS: a number of institutions, and this 59 00:02:40,530 --> 00:02:43,769 PETER WANLESS: culminated in determination at 60 00:02:43,770 --> 00:02:46,769 PETER WANLESS: the highest level to understand 61 00:02:46,770 --> 00:02:50,009 PETER WANLESS: what it was that had been going on and 62 00:02:50,010 --> 00:02:52,619 PETER WANLESS: what lessons might be learnt for the 63 00:02:52,620 --> 00:02:55,769 PETER WANLESS: future. So Theresa May, who was then the 64 00:02:55,770 --> 00:02:57,929 PETER WANLESS: Home Secretary, announced that there would 65 00:02:57,930 --> 00:03:00,989 PETER WANLESS: be this public inquiry, the Independent 66 00:03:00,990 --> 00:03:02,530 PETER WANLESS: Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, to 67 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,089 PETER WANLESS: consider the extent to which state and 68 00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:08,759 PETER WANLESS: non-state institutions had failed in their 69 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,039 PETER WANLESS: duty of care to protect children from 70 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,979 PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse and exploitation; 71 00:03:13,980 --> 00:03:15,959 PETER WANLESS: to consider the extent to which those 72 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,319 PETER WANLESS: failings had since been addressed; 73 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,697 PETER WANLESS: to identify further action that was needed 74 00:03:21,698 --> 00:03:24,059 PETER WANLESS: to address any failings that were 75 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:27,179 PETER WANLESS: identified; and to consider what steps 76 00:03:27,180 --> 00:03:29,609 PETER WANLESS: it would be necessary for the state and 77 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:31,919 PETER WANLESS: non-state institutions to take in order to 78 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,349 PETER WANLESS: protect children from such abuse in the 79 00:03:34,350 --> 00:03:38,189 PETER WANLESS: future. So it was a massive undertaking 80 00:03:38,190 --> 00:03:41,549 PETER WANLESS: and an important one to which 81 00:03:41,550 --> 00:03:45,059 PETER WANLESS: many people were compelled 82 00:03:45,060 --> 00:03:46,878 PETER WANLESS: under legal oath to submit 83 00:03:49,170 --> 00:03:52,769 PETER WANLESS: material and to give witness statements 84 00:03:52,770 --> 00:03:54,899 PETER WANLESS: in order to investigate these child 85 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:57,509 PETER WANLESS: protection failures and to determine what 86 00:03:57,510 --> 00:03:58,919 PETER WANLESS: should be done next. 87 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,589 PRODUCER: What did the NSPCC do to support the work of the 88 00:04:01,590 --> 00:04:02,729 PRODUCER: inquiry? 89 00:04:02,730 --> 00:04:04,182 PETER WANLESS: So, across the entirety 90 00:04:05,670 --> 00:04:09,269 PETER WANLESS: of the inquiry, the NSPCC submitted 91 00:04:09,270 --> 00:04:11,249 PETER WANLESS: a great deal of information. 92 00:04:11,250 --> 00:04:14,159 PETER WANLESS: Formally, evidence was sought from us 93 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,099 PETER WANLESS: for nine of the investigations, which 94 00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:19,619 PETER WANLESS: included investigations into residential 95 00:04:19,620 --> 00:04:22,049 PETER WANLESS: schools, the internet, religious 96 00:04:22,050 --> 00:04:26,369 PETER WANLESS: organisations and child exploitation. 97 00:04:26,370 --> 00:04:28,859 PETER WANLESS: So we provided witness statements, we 98 00:04:28,860 --> 00:04:32,339 PETER WANLESS: offered data from our helplines, 99 00:04:32,340 --> 00:04:34,499 PETER WANLESS: we searched our records, we produced 100 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:38,069 PETER WANLESS: briefing papers, and NSPCC 101 00:04:38,070 --> 00:04:41,069 PETER WANLESS: staff gave evidence at the public 102 00:04:41,070 --> 00:04:44,129 PETER WANLESS: hearings. And I remember very 103 00:04:44,130 --> 00:04:47,279 PETER WANLESS: clearly giving evidence myself, as 104 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,619 PETER WANLESS: the NSPCC chief executive, in December 105 00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:52,726 PETER WANLESS: 2020, in relation to the 106 00:04:54,300 --> 00:04:57,119 PETER WANLESS: work that IICSA was doing to understand 107 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,179 PETER WANLESS: what effective leadership looked 108 00:05:00,180 --> 00:05:02,699 PETER WANLESS: like in this space. 109 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:04,349 PRODUCER: What was that experience like? 110 00:05:04,350 --> 00:05:06,689 PETER WANLESS: Yeah, there's nothing quite like giving 111 00:05:06,690 --> 00:05:08,819 PETER WANLESS: evidence under oath to concentrate the 112 00:05:08,820 --> 00:05:11,879 PETER WANLESS: mind. I gave my evidence during 113 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,159 PETER WANLESS: the lockdown. 114 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,699 PETER WANLESS: I remember vividly receiving a 115 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:20,819 PETER WANLESS: secure laptop and 116 00:05:20,820 --> 00:05:24,239 PETER WANLESS: all the technology necessary to 117 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,569 PETER WANLESS: establish a secure link between myself 118 00:05:27,570 --> 00:05:30,629 PETER WANLESS: and those who were interrogating me as 119 00:05:30,630 --> 00:05:32,909 PETER WANLESS: a part of this inquiry. 120 00:05:32,910 --> 00:05:33,910 PETER WANLESS: It was... 121 00:05:35,010 --> 00:05:36,569 PETER WANLESS: It was a privilege. 122 00:05:36,570 --> 00:05:39,329 PETER WANLESS: And it was a really important thing to do 123 00:05:39,330 --> 00:05:40,949 PETER WANLESS: at that moment in time. 124 00:05:40,950 --> 00:05:44,159 PETER WANLESS: But for me, it also really clarified 125 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,159 PETER WANLESS: and reminded for me, as 126 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,339 PETER WANLESS: a leader of a significant organisation, 127 00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:53,489 PETER WANLESS: what it really means to put 128 00:05:53,490 --> 00:05:56,159 PETER WANLESS: safeguarding and child protection 129 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,169 PETER WANLESS: absolutely at the centre of one's 130 00:05:58,170 --> 00:06:01,129 PETER WANLESS: organisation, not just in terms of 131 00:06:01,130 --> 00:06:04,159 PETER WANLESS: policies and procedures, but also in terms 132 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,129 PETER WANLESS: of culture and setting that 133 00:06:07,130 --> 00:06:09,359 PETER WANLESS: priority and expectation. 134 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,499 PETER WANLESS: So, the very experience of 135 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:15,949 PETER WANLESS: giving evidence personally, I think, 136 00:06:15,950 --> 00:06:17,669 PETER WANLESS: changed for me 137 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,609 PETER WANLESS: the priority and the focus that I placed 138 00:06:22,610 --> 00:06:24,379 PETER WANLESS: on this issue. 139 00:06:24,380 --> 00:06:27,439 PETER WANLESS: And I say that in the context of 140 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,349 PETER WANLESS: an organisation that spends its entire 141 00:06:30,350 --> 00:06:33,019 PETER WANLESS: time focused about and thinking on issues 142 00:06:33,020 --> 00:06:34,879 PETER WANLESS: to do with child protection. 143 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,369 PETER WANLESS: So we are all learning all the time and 144 00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:39,679 PETER WANLESS: need to be vigilant when it comes to 145 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,749 PETER WANLESS: keeping children safe. 146 00:06:41,750 --> 00:06:44,299 PRODUCER: And finally, for you, what are the most 147 00:06:44,300 --> 00:06:46,849 PRODUCER: important learnings that we can take away from 148 00:06:46,850 --> 00:06:48,499 PRODUCER: the IICSA final report? 149 00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:51,409 PETER WANLESS: When IICSA published its final report, 150 00:06:51,410 --> 00:06:55,279 PETER WANLESS: there were 20 interlocking recommendations 151 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:58,459 PETER WANLESS: which, taken together, would constitute 152 00:06:58,460 --> 00:07:01,939 PETER WANLESS: a step change in the nation's 153 00:07:01,940 --> 00:07:04,939 PETER WANLESS: ability to prevent the 154 00:07:04,940 --> 00:07:07,969 PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse of children. 155 00:07:07,970 --> 00:07:11,539 PETER WANLESS: These are all important recommendations, 156 00:07:11,540 --> 00:07:14,569 PETER WANLESS: and one of the risks that we now 157 00:07:14,570 --> 00:07:18,289 PETER WANLESS: face in terms of implementing the report 158 00:07:18,290 --> 00:07:21,499 PETER WANLESS: is that, the government picks 159 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:24,439 PETER WANLESS: and chooses certain recommendations 160 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,409 PETER WANLESS: that are perhaps easier to implement 161 00:07:27,410 --> 00:07:30,409 PETER WANLESS: than others, and taking things 162 00:07:30,410 --> 00:07:33,529 PETER WANLESS: forward in a partial and 163 00:07:33,530 --> 00:07:36,649 PETER WANLESS: incoherent way will not 164 00:07:36,650 --> 00:07:39,769 PETER WANLESS: achieve the ambition 165 00:07:39,770 --> 00:07:43,459 PETER WANLESS: for positive change that the inquiry 166 00:07:43,460 --> 00:07:44,749 PETER WANLESS: set out. 167 00:07:44,750 --> 00:07:47,779 PETER WANLESS: For me, it's important that we 168 00:07:47,780 --> 00:07:51,379 PETER WANLESS: understand the knowledge and understanding 169 00:07:51,380 --> 00:07:54,379 PETER WANLESS: and appreciation of what child sexual abuse 170 00:07:54,380 --> 00:07:57,499 PETER WANLESS: looks like. The consistency with 171 00:07:57,500 --> 00:08:00,859 PETER WANLESS: which that abuse is reported 172 00:08:00,860 --> 00:08:02,179 PETER WANLESS: is important. 173 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:04,129 PETER WANLESS: The roles and accountabilities and the 174 00:08:04,130 --> 00:08:07,279 PETER WANLESS: skills that those who the reports are made 175 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,679 PETER WANLESS: to; that's important. 176 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,889 PETER WANLESS: The remedial therapeutic support 177 00:08:12,890 --> 00:08:15,829 PETER WANLESS: for those who have experienced child 178 00:08:15,830 --> 00:08:18,439 PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse; that's really important. 179 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,689 PETER WANLESS: The data, the way in which we know and 180 00:08:20,690 --> 00:08:22,459 PETER WANLESS: understand the nature and the scale of the 181 00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:24,109 PETER WANLESS: problem; that's important. 182 00:08:24,110 --> 00:08:26,809 PETER WANLESS: And it's the combination of these things 183 00:08:26,810 --> 00:08:30,619 PETER WANLESS: together that will achieve, for me, 184 00:08:30,620 --> 00:08:33,889 PETER WANLESS: the three critical changes 185 00:08:33,890 --> 00:08:36,019 PETER WANLESS: which we need to see. 186 00:08:36,020 --> 00:08:38,658 PETER WANLESS: The first of those is there needs to be a 187 00:08:38,659 --> 00:08:42,109 PETER WANLESS: step change in the policy environment 188 00:08:42,110 --> 00:08:45,049 PETER WANLESS: and the resourcing and support which 189 00:08:45,050 --> 00:08:48,109 PETER WANLESS: government gives to our child 190 00:08:48,110 --> 00:08:50,419 PETER WANLESS: protection system and the wider knowledge 191 00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:52,879 PETER WANLESS: and understanding of what needs to be done 192 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,739 PETER WANLESS: to keep children safe. 193 00:08:54,740 --> 00:08:57,499 PETER WANLESS: The second piece is that many, many more 194 00:08:57,500 --> 00:09:00,383 PETER WANLESS: institutions — I include the NSPCC in that 195 00:09:00,384 --> 00:09:03,589 PETER WANLESS: — but all of us can play a part 196 00:09:03,590 --> 00:09:06,019 PETER WANLESS: in being vigilant, in knowing and 197 00:09:06,020 --> 00:09:07,255 PETER WANLESS: understanding how our safeguarding 198 00:09:09,110 --> 00:09:12,169 PETER WANLESS: arrangements are ever alert 199 00:09:12,170 --> 00:09:15,109 PETER WANLESS: to the vital importance of 200 00:09:15,110 --> 00:09:18,469 PETER WANLESS: preventing the abuse of children. 201 00:09:18,470 --> 00:09:21,559 PETER WANLESS: And thirdly, the inquiry did a 202 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:24,469 PETER WANLESS: brilliant job of put in the voices on the 203 00:09:24,470 --> 00:09:26,599 PETER WANLESS: perspectives of victims and survivors 204 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,689 PETER WANLESS: themselves front and centre in these 205 00:09:29,690 --> 00:09:31,729 PETER WANLESS: debates and discussions. 206 00:09:31,730 --> 00:09:34,849 PETER WANLESS: And so, I believe we owe it 207 00:09:34,850 --> 00:09:38,179 PETER WANLESS: to the thousands of them 208 00:09:38,180 --> 00:09:41,119 PETER WANLESS: who had the courage to contribute 209 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,329 PETER WANLESS: to this inquiry to ensure there's a 210 00:09:44,330 --> 00:09:47,569 PETER WANLESS: decisive and coherent response 211 00:09:47,570 --> 00:09:51,409 PETER WANLESS: to the recommendations that the inquiry 212 00:09:51,410 --> 00:09:54,439 PETER WANLESS: has made. And that is not 213 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,859 PETER WANLESS: proving to be entirely straightforward. 214 00:09:57,860 --> 00:10:01,699 PETER WANLESS: So, there are many of us, institutions 215 00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:04,819 PETER WANLESS: and individuals, who want to 216 00:10:04,820 --> 00:10:08,269 PETER WANLESS: continue to bang the drum and 217 00:10:08,270 --> 00:10:11,599 PETER WANLESS: remind government institutions, 218 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,019 PETER WANLESS: organisations, the wider public, that 219 00:10:15,020 --> 00:10:17,839 PETER WANLESS: there's a job to be done to keep children 220 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,319 PETER WANLESS: safer from child sexual abuse than 221 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,479 PETER WANLESS: may be the case at the moment. 222 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,279 PETER WANLESS: We can all play a part in that. 223 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,649 PETER WANLESS: Government needs to give a lead, and we 224 00:10:27,650 --> 00:10:30,619 PETER WANLESS: must continue to listen 225 00:10:30,620 --> 00:10:33,769 PETER WANLESS: very carefully to victims and survivors 226 00:10:33,770 --> 00:10:37,339 PETER WANLESS: of child sexual abuse themselves, including 227 00:10:37,340 --> 00:10:40,379 PETER WANLESS: young people who, sadly, 228 00:10:40,380 --> 00:10:43,369 PETER WANLESS: are experiencing these crimes against 229 00:10:43,370 --> 00:10:45,079 PETER WANLESS: them today. 230 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,869 PRODUCER: As Peter says, victims and survivors of child 231 00:10:47,870 --> 00:10:50,359 PRODUCER: sexual abuse played a key role in informing the 232 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,009 PRODUCER: work of the inquiry. 233 00:10:52,010 --> 00:10:53,809 PRODUCER: To ensure their needs and voices were 234 00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:56,299 PRODUCER: represented in their work, IICSA set up the 235 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:59,199 PRODUCER: victims and survivors consultative panel, or 236 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:00,999 PRODUCER: VSCP. 237 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,939 PRODUCER: The VSCP provided input across all areas 238 00:11:03,940 --> 00:11:05,349 PRODUCER: of IICSA's work. 239 00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:07,449 PRODUCER: They were instrumental in establishing IICSA's 240 00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:10,779 PRODUCER: Truth Project, which gave over 6,200 241 00:11:10,780 --> 00:11:13,419 PRODUCER: victims and survivors the opportunity to share 242 00:11:13,420 --> 00:11:16,239 PRODUCER: their experiences of child sexual abuse with the 243 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,499 PRODUCER: inquiry. 244 00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:19,899 PRODUCER: The first section of the IICSA final report 245 00:11:19,900 --> 00:11:22,209 PRODUCER: contains anonymised extracts from these 246 00:11:22,210 --> 00:11:24,759 PRODUCER: testimonies, and we advise listeners to read 247 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,739 PRODUCER: these to get a full understanding of the 248 00:11:26,740 --> 00:11:29,739 PRODUCER: devastating impact of CSA on victims 249 00:11:29,740 --> 00:11:31,359 PRODUCER: and survivors. 250 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,909 PRODUCER: By speaking publicly about their experiences, 251 00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:36,459 PRODUCER: members of the VSCP and the Truth Project 252 00:11:36,460 --> 00:11:39,759 PRODUCER: elevated public awareness of child sexual abuse. 253 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,429 PRODUCER: However, IICSA identified that there is still 254 00:11:42,430 --> 00:11:44,829 PRODUCER: more work to be done to empower conversation 255 00:11:44,830 --> 00:11:46,119 PRODUCER: around the issue. 256 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,999 PRODUCER: Recommendation four of the IICSA final report 257 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,429 PRODUCER: advises that the UK government and the Welsh 258 00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:54,009 PRODUCER: government commission regular programmes of 259 00:11:54,010 --> 00:11:56,439 PRODUCER: activity to increase public awareness about 260 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,979 PRODUCER: child sexual abuse and how to respond to it. 261 00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:02,139 PRODUCER: For this podcast series, I spoke to Lisa 262 00:12:02,140 --> 00:12:04,599 PRODUCER: McCrindle, Assistant Director for Policy, 263 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,029 PRODUCER: Communications and Strategic Influence at the 264 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:10,029 PRODUCER: Centre of Expertise on Child Sexual Abuse, the 265 00:12:10,030 --> 00:12:11,859 PRODUCER: CSA Centre. 266 00:12:11,860 --> 00:12:13,989 PRODUCER: During our conversation, she explained why it's 267 00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:16,239 PRODUCER: so important that we continue to confront the 268 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,149 PRODUCER: difficult topic of child sexual abuse. 269 00:12:19,150 --> 00:12:20,409 LISA MCCRINDLE: So I think it's really important because 270 00:12:20,410 --> 00:12:21,939 LISA MCCRINDLE: it's something we'd rather wasn't happening 271 00:12:21,940 --> 00:12:23,649 LISA MCCRINDLE: and we'd rather not talk about it. 272 00:12:23,650 --> 00:12:26,439 LISA MCCRINDLE: And the reality is that far more children 273 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,419 LISA MCCRINDLE: are being sexually abused than that come 274 00:12:28,420 --> 00:12:30,639 LISA MCCRINDLE: to the attention of services as the all of 275 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,979 LISA MCCRINDLE: those — I think there were only over 6000 276 00:12:32,980 --> 00:12:35,919 LISA MCCRINDLE: submissions to the Truth Project — most of 277 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,989 LISA MCCRINDLE: them hadn't told anybody until they were 278 00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:39,489 LISA MCCRINDLE: adults or much later in life. 279 00:12:39,490 --> 00:12:40,869 LISA MCCRINDLE: They certainly didn't get the support they 280 00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:42,249 LISA MCCRINDLE: needed at the time that that harm was 281 00:12:42,250 --> 00:12:44,649 LISA MCCRINDLE: happening. And what contributes to that is 282 00:12:44,650 --> 00:12:46,719 LISA MCCRINDLE: this general sense of, you know, 283 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,059 LISA MCCRINDLE: understandably, child sexual abuse is not 284 00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:50,949 LISA MCCRINDLE: a nice thing to think about. It's not 285 00:12:50,950 --> 00:12:52,299 LISA MCCRINDLE: something pleasant. And we'd rather it 286 00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:53,649 LISA MCCRINDLE: wasn't happening. 287 00:12:53,650 --> 00:12:55,479 LISA MCCRINDLE: So if we're going to tackle it and if 288 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,609 LISA MCCRINDLE: we're going to address those things that 289 00:12:57,610 --> 00:13:00,189 LISA MCCRINDLE: make us feel uncomfortable, we need to be 290 00:13:00,190 --> 00:13:02,169 LISA MCCRINDLE: getting more comfortable at talking about 291 00:13:02,170 --> 00:13:04,479 LISA MCCRINDLE: it. We need to be less worried about 292 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,569 LISA MCCRINDLE: talking about it and feeling more able to 293 00:13:07,570 --> 00:13:10,029 LISA MCCRINDLE: have those conversations and tackle those 294 00:13:10,030 --> 00:13:12,009 LISA MCCRINDLE: difficult issues that we might otherwise 295 00:13:12,010 --> 00:13:14,289 LISA MCCRINDLE: want to shy away from. 296 00:13:14,290 --> 00:13:16,989 LISA MCCRINDLE: I think it's really important that those 297 00:13:16,990 --> 00:13:18,939 LISA MCCRINDLE: conversations are continually happening. 298 00:13:18,940 --> 00:13:21,639 LISA MCCRINDLE: I think... And in many ways, an awful lot 299 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,379 LISA MCCRINDLE: of people across the country will never 300 00:13:23,380 --> 00:13:24,819 LISA MCCRINDLE: have heard about the Independent Inquiry 301 00:13:24,820 --> 00:13:26,379 LISA MCCRINDLE: into Child Sexual Abuse. It won't have 302 00:13:26,380 --> 00:13:27,729 LISA MCCRINDLE: been on their radar. They might have seen 303 00:13:27,730 --> 00:13:29,829 LISA MCCRINDLE: something in the press, but the IICSA 304 00:13:29,830 --> 00:13:31,959 LISA MCCRINDLE: inquiry probably doesn't mean a great deal 305 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,639 LISA MCCRINDLE: to most people if you talk to them on the 306 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,739 LISA MCCRINDLE: street. But what it did do, and through 307 00:13:35,740 --> 00:13:37,989 LISA MCCRINDLE: the continuous investigations that came 308 00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:39,909 LISA MCCRINDLE: out during the whole of the inquiry and 309 00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:42,219 LISA MCCRINDLE: the report, is continually give us new 310 00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:44,769 LISA MCCRINDLE: insights and new understandings around the 311 00:13:44,770 --> 00:13:46,179 LISA MCCRINDLE: nature of that harm that had been 312 00:13:46,180 --> 00:13:48,219 LISA MCCRINDLE: happening and why those things hadn't been 313 00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:50,019 LISA MCCRINDLE: identified and where the failings need to 314 00:13:50,020 --> 00:13:51,909 LISA MCCRINDLE: be addressed. So that was continually 315 00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:53,229 LISA MCCRINDLE: bringing that to the fore. 316 00:13:53,230 --> 00:13:54,849 LISA MCCRINDLE: And what that's really important for is 317 00:13:54,850 --> 00:13:56,829 LISA MCCRINDLE: one, it keeps it front and foremost in 318 00:13:56,830 --> 00:13:58,839 LISA MCCRINDLE: terms of policy and practitioners and 319 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,369 LISA MCCRINDLE: people that are making decisions about how 320 00:14:00,370 --> 00:14:02,739 LISA MCCRINDLE: do we respond to this in day-to-day life. 321 00:14:02,740 --> 00:14:04,539 LISA MCCRINDLE: But it's really important for victims and 322 00:14:04,540 --> 00:14:06,639 LISA MCCRINDLE: survivors to hear that their experiences 323 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,409 LISA MCCRINDLE: aren't in the shadows and their experiences 324 00:14:08,410 --> 00:14:10,509 LISA MCCRINDLE: are acknowledged. For me, there's a really 325 00:14:10,510 --> 00:14:12,489 LISA MCCRINDLE: tangible impact that that has. 326 00:14:12,490 --> 00:14:14,649 LISA MCCRINDLE: Before I came to work at the CSA Centre, I 327 00:14:14,650 --> 00:14:17,079 LISA MCCRINDLE: worked at the NSPCC, and while I was 328 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,569 LISA MCCRINDLE: working there, the scandal about the 329 00:14:19,570 --> 00:14:22,449 LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse of boys in major football 330 00:14:22,450 --> 00:14:25,359 LISA MCCRINDLE: clubs came to light and the NSPCC 331 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,699 LISA MCCRINDLE: set up a helpline in response to that. 332 00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:30,279 LISA MCCRINDLE: Now, immediately after that reporting of 333 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,499 LISA MCCRINDLE: that case, there was literally thousands 334 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,629 LISA MCCRINDLE: of calls that came into that helpline from 335 00:14:34,630 --> 00:14:36,379 LISA MCCRINDLE: a whole range of young people who had been 336 00:14:36,380 --> 00:14:38,859 LISA MCCRINDLE: — well, adults and children — who had been 337 00:14:38,860 --> 00:14:40,959 LISA MCCRINDLE: harmed in sport settings and other 338 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,849 LISA MCCRINDLE: settings like that. But they'd not felt 339 00:14:42,850 --> 00:14:44,859 LISA MCCRINDLE: able to have their abuse acknowledged 340 00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:46,479 LISA MCCRINDLE: before because it hadn't been talked 341 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,429 LISA MCCRINDLE: about. And I think it's really important 342 00:14:48,430 --> 00:14:50,079 LISA MCCRINDLE: that we talk about the different ways in 343 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:51,999 LISA MCCRINDLE: which this abuse does happen to people, 344 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,409 LISA MCCRINDLE: because that gives confidence, it 345 00:14:53,410 --> 00:14:55,269 LISA MCCRINDLE: validates. Everything that happens to 346 00:14:55,270 --> 00:14:58,479 LISA MCCRINDLE: victims tells them that maybe they're 347 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,609 LISA MCCRINDLE: imagining it, or they have a fault in it, 348 00:15:00,610 --> 00:15:02,349 LISA MCCRINDLE: or they have some responsibility for it. 349 00:15:02,350 --> 00:15:04,719 LISA MCCRINDLE: And all of these things are silencing. 350 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,369 LISA MCCRINDLE: And what we do when we talk about sexual 351 00:15:06,370 --> 00:15:08,049 LISA MCCRINDLE: abuse is we strip that power of that 352 00:15:08,050 --> 00:15:09,369 LISA MCCRINDLE: silence away. 353 00:15:09,370 --> 00:15:10,809 LISA MCCRINDLE: IICSA was really important in doing that 354 00:15:10,810 --> 00:15:12,759 LISA MCCRINDLE: over a period of time, and it's really 355 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,979 LISA MCCRINDLE: important that those organisations that 356 00:15:14,980 --> 00:15:16,509 LISA MCCRINDLE: have been involved in it and have a role 357 00:15:16,510 --> 00:15:17,799 LISA MCCRINDLE: to play continue to have that 358 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,119 LISA MCCRINDLE: conversation. 359 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,999 PRODUCER: At the NSPCC, we believe everyone needs to be 360 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,549 PRODUCER: aware of the IICSA findings, but particularly 361 00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:27,009 PRODUCER: anyone working or volunteering with children and 362 00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:29,799 PRODUCER: young people. Many of the recommendations in the 363 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,469 PRODUCER: final report will directly affect safeguarding 364 00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:34,989 PRODUCER: professionals and the work they do, as the 365 00:15:34,990 --> 00:15:37,389 PRODUCER: NSPCC's Director of Strategy and Knowledge, 366 00:15:37,390 --> 00:15:39,939 PRODUCER: Maria Neophytou, explains here. 367 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:42,429 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: A central tenet of the NSPCC's strategy 368 00:15:42,430 --> 00:15:44,289 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: is that we are all responsible for 369 00:15:44,290 --> 00:15:45,699 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: keeping children safe. 370 00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:47,019 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: The work of IICSA is, of course, 371 00:15:47,020 --> 00:15:49,209 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: particularly important for professionals 372 00:15:49,210 --> 00:15:51,309 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: working and volunteering with children, 373 00:15:51,310 --> 00:15:53,919 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: and understanding the findings is helpful 374 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,329 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: in that professionals are in a unique 375 00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:57,279 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: position to recognise the signs of abuse 376 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,949 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: and take action to prevent it. 377 00:15:58,950 --> 00:16:01,259 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: IICSA's findings also demonstrate that we 378 00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:03,449 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: need wholesale change in how child sexual 379 00:16:03,450 --> 00:16:05,669 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: abuse is tackled, and safeguarding 380 00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:07,319 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: professionals will play a crucial role in 381 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,969 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: driving these changes. 382 00:16:08,970 --> 00:16:10,679 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: Some of those recommendations will 383 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,689 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: directly affect the work of safeguarding 384 00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:15,359 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: professionals. So, for example, there 385 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,939 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: were recommendations and proposals around 386 00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:21,149 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: mandatory reporting, around 387 00:16:21,150 --> 00:16:23,429 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: systemic changes like the creation of 388 00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:25,469 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: child protection authorities and 389 00:16:25,470 --> 00:16:27,720 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: ministers and strategies for children 390 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:31,529 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: in England and Wales. As well as those 391 00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:33,839 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: systemic changes that are proposed, the 392 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,839 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: report itself is a body of knowledge that 393 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,419 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: is very useful for safeguarding 394 00:16:39,420 --> 00:16:41,219 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: professionals to be aware of and delve 395 00:16:41,220 --> 00:16:43,859 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: into. It's a vital evidence base for 396 00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:45,479 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: practitioners who are involved in 397 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:46,859 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: safeguarding decisions. 398 00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:48,479 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: For instance, in the first part of the 399 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,999 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: report, victims and survivors of child 400 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,129 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: sexual abuse describe their experiences 401 00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:55,199 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: in their own words, and these powerful 402 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,839 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: testimonies are critical for 403 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,699 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: professionals to understand the 404 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:02,249 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: experiences that victims and survivors 405 00:17:02,250 --> 00:17:05,068 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: had, the impact that it had, and the 406 00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:07,019 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: nature of the response. 407 00:17:07,020 --> 00:17:09,779 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: The inquiry published 24 research reports 408 00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:12,088 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: on a range of topics, including support 409 00:17:12,089 --> 00:17:14,639 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: services, online-facilitated abuse, 410 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,769 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: schools, children's homes and residential 411 00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:18,989 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: care, and custodial settings. 412 00:17:18,990 --> 00:17:21,449 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: And it also published statistical reports 413 00:17:21,450 --> 00:17:23,608 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: on a quarterly basis until the first 414 00:17:23,609 --> 00:17:25,259 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: quarter of 2022. 415 00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:26,879 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: So, as a body of evidence, it's 416 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,105 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: unparalleled in its scope and its 417 00:17:29,106 --> 00:17:32,459 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: relevance to everyday practice 418 00:17:32,460 --> 00:17:33,779 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: and safeguarding. 419 00:17:33,780 --> 00:17:35,759 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: Ultimately, the recommendations from 420 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,369 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: IICSA should provide the foundation for a 421 00:17:38,370 --> 00:17:40,619 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: robust safeguarding system that protects 422 00:17:40,620 --> 00:17:43,259 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: children from abuse, and the NSPCC will, 423 00:17:43,260 --> 00:17:45,389 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: of course, continue to call for the 424 00:17:45,390 --> 00:17:47,489 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: implementation of the recommendations, 425 00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:48,929 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: the strengthening of preventative 426 00:17:48,930 --> 00:17:51,869 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: measures, more therapeutic and support 427 00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:54,569 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: services for children, and a more 428 00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:57,149 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: coherent and systemic response from 429 00:17:57,150 --> 00:18:00,209 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: government and all those in positions of 430 00:18:00,210 --> 00:18:01,799 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: decision-making and positions in child 431 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,059 MARIA NEOPHYTOU: protection. 432 00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:05,279 PRODUCER: As Maria says, professionals working with 433 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,679 PRODUCER: children and young people have a crucial role to 434 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,799 PRODUCER: play in preventing abuse and neglect. 435 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,199 PRODUCER: I asked Lisa McCrindle what advice she would 436 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,239 PRODUCER: offer professionals on how they can improve 437 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,229 PRODUCER: their ability to identify and respond to CSA. 438 00:18:19,230 --> 00:18:21,089 LISA MCCRINDLE: At the CSA Centre we pretty much always 439 00:18:21,090 --> 00:18:22,439 LISA MCCRINDLE: start with the 101. 440 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,869 LISA MCCRINDLE: So, this isn't about complex, deep 441 00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:26,369 LISA MCCRINDLE: knowledge about sexual abuse. 442 00:18:26,370 --> 00:18:28,289 LISA MCCRINDLE: You don't need to be an expert in child 443 00:18:28,290 --> 00:18:30,299 LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse. Most of the professionals 444 00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:32,219 LISA MCCRINDLE: we're talking about, their job is to work 445 00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:34,049 LISA MCCRINDLE: with children and to understand children. 446 00:18:34,050 --> 00:18:36,059 LISA MCCRINDLE: What prevents really good practice in 447 00:18:36,060 --> 00:18:37,919 LISA MCCRINDLE: response to child sexual abuse is often 448 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,689 LISA MCCRINDLE: just feeling uncomfortable about sexual 449 00:18:39,690 --> 00:18:41,759 LISA MCCRINDLE: abuse and worrying about it. 450 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,679 LISA MCCRINDLE: So, the first thing that professionals can 451 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,629 LISA MCCRINDLE: do is to get comfortable with talking 452 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:47,999 LISA MCCRINDLE: about sexual abuse, to understand child 453 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,279 LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse more, to understand that it 454 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,469 LISA MCCRINDLE: is much more common than they will think. 455 00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:54,239 LISA MCCRINDLE: There is often this idea that it's quite 456 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,519 LISA MCCRINDLE: rare, but what the data tells us from 457 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,519 LISA MCCRINDLE: surveys with children and with adults, 458 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,289 LISA MCCRINDLE: is that child sexual abuse is just as 459 00:19:01,290 --> 00:19:04,049 LISA MCCRINDLE: common as emotional abuse and domestic 460 00:19:04,050 --> 00:19:05,309 LISA MCCRINDLE: abuse and neglect. 461 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:07,439 LISA MCCRINDLE: So, you know, we should be expecting to 462 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,059 LISA MCCRINDLE: see that just as much as we're seeing 463 00:19:09,060 --> 00:19:10,469 LISA MCCRINDLE: those other forms of harm. 464 00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:12,929 LISA MCCRINDLE: And yet, what we do find in service data 465 00:19:12,930 --> 00:19:14,759 LISA MCCRINDLE: is that far less sexual abuse is 466 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,649 LISA MCCRINDLE: identified. And that's what we see coming 467 00:19:16,650 --> 00:19:18,839 LISA MCCRINDLE: through in the Truth Project, with so many 468 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,669 LISA MCCRINDLE: of those victims and survivors whose harm 469 00:19:20,670 --> 00:19:22,139 LISA MCCRINDLE: was never identified while they were 470 00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:24,449 LISA MCCRINDLE: children, and they go on to experience 471 00:19:24,450 --> 00:19:25,919 LISA MCCRINDLE: that in silencel. 472 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,913 LISA MCCRINDLE: So, in terms of what can professionals do: 473 00:19:27,914 --> 00:19:30,929 LISA MCCRINDLE: number one, familiarise yourself 474 00:19:30,930 --> 00:19:33,059 LISA MCCRINDLE: with an understanding about child sexual 475 00:19:33,060 --> 00:19:35,039 LISA MCCRINDLE: abuse. Be aware that it's much more common 476 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,229 LISA MCCRINDLE: than you may think. So, we would expect 477 00:19:37,230 --> 00:19:39,959 LISA MCCRINDLE: that 1 in 10 children by the age of 16 478 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,549 LISA MCCRINDLE: will have experienced some form of child 479 00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:42,839 LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse. 480 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,029 LISA MCCRINDLE: Then the next thing that what we find that 481 00:19:45,030 --> 00:19:46,889 LISA MCCRINDLE: prevents professionals addressing child 482 00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:48,509 LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse is feeling uncomfortable 483 00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:50,939 LISA MCCRINDLE: talking about it and talking to children 484 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:52,259 LISA MCCRINDLE: about their concerns. 485 00:19:52,260 --> 00:19:54,749 LISA MCCRINDLE: So again, getting comfortable with that, 486 00:19:54,750 --> 00:19:56,249 LISA MCCRINDLE: thinking about how you would have those 487 00:19:56,250 --> 00:19:58,319 LISA MCCRINDLE: conversations, potentially even with your 488 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,239 LISA MCCRINDLE: colleagues practising those conversations. 489 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,039 LISA MCCRINDLE: How would you do that and how are you 490 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,859 LISA MCCRINDLE: going to respond if a child does give you 491 00:20:04,860 --> 00:20:06,989 LISA MCCRINDLE: either a direct indication that 492 00:20:06,990 --> 00:20:08,639 LISA MCCRINDLE: something's happening or perhaps an indirect 493 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,139 LISA MCCRINDLE: indication that something's happening and 494 00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:12,059 LISA MCCRINDLE: you need to respond to that? I would say 495 00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:13,559 LISA MCCRINDLE: that you don't need to do that on your own. 496 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,419 LISA MCCRINDLE: There are lots of resources out there to 497 00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:17,099 LISA MCCRINDLE: support professionals in doing that. 498 00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:19,049 LISA MCCRINDLE: And when I say professionals, again, I'm 499 00:20:19,050 --> 00:20:20,459 LISA MCCRINDLE: talking about all of those different 500 00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:22,499 LISA MCCRINDLE: professionals that work with children. 501 00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:24,659 LISA MCCRINDLE: What we do know is that children are more 502 00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:26,429 LISA MCCRINDLE: likely to be confiding in people that they 503 00:20:26,430 --> 00:20:29,369 LISA MCCRINDLE: know and trust. So, those individuals 504 00:20:29,370 --> 00:20:30,779 LISA MCCRINDLE: that have a trusted relationship with 505 00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:32,279 LISA MCCRINDLE: children are much more likely to be the 506 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,029 LISA MCCRINDLE: ones that can identify concerns 507 00:20:36,030 --> 00:20:37,739 LISA MCCRINDLE: in the child's behaviour, in the behaviour 508 00:20:37,740 --> 00:20:40,049 LISA MCCRINDLE: of those around them, but can also then 509 00:20:40,050 --> 00:20:41,939 LISA MCCRINDLE: maybe be the people that children will be 510 00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:44,249 LISA MCCRINDLE: able to tell if they support them to do 511 00:20:44,250 --> 00:20:46,709 LISA MCCRINDLE: so. So we have resources available for 512 00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:49,019 LISA MCCRINDLE: that. In terms of understanding, our key 513 00:20:49,020 --> 00:20:51,509 LISA MCCRINDLE: messages from research series are really, 514 00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:53,729 LISA MCCRINDLE: really succinct summaries of the research 515 00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:56,279 LISA MCCRINDLE: evidence around a whole different range of 516 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,469 LISA MCCRINDLE: aspects of child sexual abuse they are 517 00:20:58,470 --> 00:21:00,419 LISA MCCRINDLE: completely readable with a cup of coffee 518 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:02,579 LISA MCCRINDLE: and a slice of cake, with your elevenses 519 00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:04,949 LISA MCCRINDLE: as a professional, and you could get the 520 00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:06,479 LISA MCCRINDLE: key bits of information that just gives 521 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,369 LISA MCCRINDLE: you the knowledge and the confidence. 522 00:21:08,370 --> 00:21:09,809 LISA MCCRINDLE: We then have a series of practice 523 00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:11,879 LISA MCCRINDLE: resources that help professionals to 524 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,529 LISA MCCRINDLE: understand the signs and indicators of 525 00:21:13,530 --> 00:21:15,689 LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse, to think about how they 526 00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:17,609 LISA MCCRINDLE: would communicate with children about 527 00:21:17,610 --> 00:21:20,009 LISA MCCRINDLE: sexual abuse. So, understanding what are 528 00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:21,719 LISA MCCRINDLE: the barriers that prevent children from 529 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,729 LISA MCCRINDLE: talking about it, and how can they, as 530 00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:25,649 LISA MCCRINDLE: professionals, support children? 531 00:21:25,650 --> 00:21:27,449 LISA MCCRINDLE: We have resources around supporting 532 00:21:27,450 --> 00:21:29,879 LISA MCCRINDLE: parents and carers. As I said, parents and 533 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,279 LISA MCCRINDLE: carers are really the key to supporting 534 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,229 LISA MCCRINDLE: children. They spend the most time with 535 00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:35,849 LISA MCCRINDLE: them and they're going to have the biggest impact 536 00:21:35,850 --> 00:21:37,679 LISA MCCRINDLE: on child's recovery. So, really important 537 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,419 LISA MCCRINDLE: to support parents and carers. 538 00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:41,879 LISA MCCRINDLE: So there is lots of information out there 539 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,919 LISA MCCRINDLE: in terms of the resources available as 540 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,329 LISA MCCRINDLE: well as the training that we offer at the 541 00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:46,829 LISA MCCRINDLE: CSA Centre. 542 00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:49,559 PRODUCER: At the NSPCC, we recognise that the work of 543 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,839 PRODUCER: professionals involved in safeguarding can be 544 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,569 PRODUCER: challenging, and we will continue to strive to 545 00:21:54,570 --> 00:21:56,819 PRODUCER: provide you with the support you need to best 546 00:21:56,820 --> 00:21:58,529 PRODUCER: protect children. 547 00:21:58,530 --> 00:22:00,539 PRODUCER: Here's Peter Wanless once more. 548 00:22:00,540 --> 00:22:03,659 PETER WANLESS: My message to those people 549 00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:06,959 PETER WANLESS: who are working directly and indirectly 550 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,869 PETER WANLESS: with children who are at risk of child 551 00:22:09,870 --> 00:22:12,419 PETER WANLESS: sexual abuse, or who have experienced that, 552 00:22:12,420 --> 00:22:15,539 PETER WANLESS: is: thank you for everything which you 553 00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:18,149 PETER WANLESS: do to help these children. 554 00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:21,299 PETER WANLESS: It's much more difficult than it 555 00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:24,239 PETER WANLESS: might be as a consequence of so 556 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,909 PETER WANLESS: many of you working in a system that can 557 00:22:26,910 --> 00:22:30,209 PETER WANLESS: feel dysfunctional, disconnected, 558 00:22:30,210 --> 00:22:33,269 PETER WANLESS: insufficiently resourced and supported, and 559 00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:36,179 PETER WANLESS: with many people around you having multiple 560 00:22:36,180 --> 00:22:39,599 PETER WANLESS: priorities that don't always seem to put 561 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,359 PETER WANLESS: the victims and the potential victims of 562 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:44,969 PETER WANLESS: child sexual abuse front and centre. 563 00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:46,469 PETER WANLESS: I acknowledge that. 564 00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:49,559 PETER WANLESS: The inquiry acknowledges that and 565 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,799 PETER WANLESS: sets out an ambitious agenda 566 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,349 PETER WANLESS: for positive change. 567 00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:58,319 PETER WANLESS: So, in the hurly-burly 568 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,349 PETER WANLESS: and pressures of those of you who work 569 00:23:01,350 --> 00:23:04,409 PETER WANLESS: with children continuing to do that vitally 570 00:23:04,410 --> 00:23:07,049 PETER WANLESS: important work, when it sometimes feels 571 00:23:07,050 --> 00:23:10,079 PETER WANLESS: against the odds, be assured that 572 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,759 PETER WANLESS: there are many of us who are going to 573 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,729 PETER WANLESS: continue to press for and 574 00:23:14,730 --> 00:23:18,149 PETER WANLESS: argue the case for decisive change 575 00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:21,689 PETER WANLESS: to secure a better organised, resourced 576 00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:24,839 PETER WANLESS: and supported national approach to 577 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,299 PETER WANLESS: keeping children safe from child sexual 578 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:28,300 PETER WANLESS: abuse. 579 00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:34,299 PRODUCER: Thanks to Maria Neophytou, Lisa McCrindle and 580 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:35,799 PRODUCER: Peter Wanless. 581 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,169 PRODUCER: You can find a link to the CSA Centre's key 582 00:23:38,170 --> 00:23:40,899 PRODUCER: messages from research series, as well as other 583 00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:43,449 PRODUCER: resources around recognising and responding to 584 00:23:43,450 --> 00:23:45,650 PRODUCER: child sexual abuse, in the podcast show notes. 585 00:23:47,890 --> 00:23:50,169 PRODUCER: In the next episode of Recommendations for 586 00:23:50,170 --> 00:23:52,809 PRODUCER: Change, we'll be looking at the importance of 587 00:23:52,810 --> 00:23:55,149 PRODUCER: data to child protection. 588 00:23:55,150 --> 00:23:57,999 PRODUCER: How does gathering and analysing data help us to 589 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,669 PRODUCER: effectively respond to child sexual abuse? 590 00:24:02,650 --> 00:24:04,839 PRODUCER: If you've been affected by any of the issues 591 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,419 PRODUCER: raised in this podcast, you can reach out to the 592 00:24:07,420 --> 00:24:10,059 PRODUCER: NSPCC Helpline for support. 593 00:24:10,060 --> 00:24:13,569 PRODUCER: Call 0808 800 5000 594 00:24:13,570 --> 00:24:17,170 PRODUCER: or email help@nspcc.org.uk. 595 00:24:18,220 --> 00:24:22,239 PRODUCER: This podcast series was produced in Autumn 2023. 596 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,249 PRODUCER: All information was correct at the time of 597 00:24:24,250 --> 00:24:26,739 PRODUCER: recording, but the world of child protection is 598 00:24:26,740 --> 00:24:27,740 PRODUCER: ever-changing. 599 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:30,969 PRODUCER: To stay up to date, visit the NSPCC Learning 600 00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:36,099 PRODUCER: website at nspcc.org.uk/learning.