Welcome to the Entrepreneurial Leap Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Dubay. For context, this podcast is inspired by the book Entrepreneurial Leap by Gino Wickman. Gino is the founder of EOS Worldwide, and an author with over 2 million copies of his books sold worldwide. Now, in his next phase, he is taking his passion for helping entrepreneurs by partnering with five equally passionate, successful entrepreneurs, myself included, who have created the E LEAP Academy, where we teach the content from the book in a one year program guaranteed to increase the success of early stage businesses. Now, a quick note about me, I've been an entrepreneur since the age of 14. When I started my first business selling Blow Pop Lollipops outta my locker with my best friend, I ran a company that I sold to a public company and later bought back. I'm an author, speaker, host of an annual leadership retreat, and I'm partners in several other businesses.

I'll be your host for the Entrepreneurial LEAP Podcast, where every other week you will be hearing life stories from successful entrepreneurs who took the leap into entrepreneurship. You will learn from their mistakes and successes and be inspired as you move forward on your journey. Now, before I introduce my guest, I'm going to share with you a bit about Ewe Academy. The Entrepreneurial Leap Academy provides an immersive nine month experience for new entrepreneurs with a focus on the three Cs, clarity, competence, and community. Let's start with the first C, clarity. You'll learn to be clear about who you are, what you want from your business, and how to get it. The next C confidence, you will learn to be confident you are on the right path, equipped with powerful mindset tools. The last C Connected you will become connected to a community of entrepreneurs just like you.

Now, all participants receive four full day in-person classes led by experience entrepreneurs to equip you with the tools and strategies necessary to build a successful business. The Academy's dynamic community connects participants with a tribe of like-minded individuals for support and networking opportunities during in between classes. Students also receive a seasoned mentor offering personalized guidance and expertise to help you navigate the challenges of entrepreneurship. To start building the business of your dreams, visit our website@eleap.com. Again, that's e leap.com. There you can learn more about and sign up for the next Entrepreneurial LEAP Academy. Today's guest is Dr. Jim Lorenz. Dr. Lorenz is a board certified physician in family practice. He did his residency in family general practice in emergency medicine at Garden City Hospital, Beaumont Hospital, and Henry Ford Hospital, all located in southeastern Michigan. He received his degree of Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine at Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, now known as at Still University.

Located in Kirksville, Missouri. He is an active staff physician at Beaumont Hospital, Botsford Hospital in St. John's Hospital. Again, all located in southeastern Michigan. He is an assistant clinical professor at Michigan State University and an active member of the American Academy of Anti-Aging and Restorative Medicine, American Academy of Osteopathic Medicine, American Medical Association, and American College of Osteopathic Physicians. But stay with me because Dr. Lorenz is a true entrepreneur. His medical practice is unique in that he takes a multifaceted approach to impact the lives of his patients. He is passionate and dedicated to bringing his personal experience, knowledge, and training to enhance one's quality of life at any age. He provides a personal approach to supplementation, much like his patient care with functional medicine, closely monitoring levels through extensive blood work and detailed testing methods. Dr. Lorenz treats patients with the goal of achieving optimal ranges in blood work instead of reaching normal levels based on a sick population.

Over the years of his practice, he has devised ways in which he could assist patients with specific supplementation requirements by analyzing data, he formulated JV nutraceuticals products based on the needs of patients seeking the best possible health and longevity. He's excited to deliver a product line of therapeutic dose supplements that he truly believes in. He was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan is an avid health and outdoor enthusiast. He participates in many sports, including biking, swimming, climbing, hunting, hockey, snowboarding, squash, and golf. He regularly competes in mountain bike races and tours. Dr. Lorenz has sponsored the RBS cycling team for several years, including amateurs and semi-pros. He cares for many professional athletes and is also the physician for the world famous CRO boxing team. You are going to be inspired and honestly pumped up after listening to my chat with Dr. Lorenz. So please enjoy. Jim, welcome to the Entrepreneurial Leap Podcast. I am so grateful for you taking time to do this with us, and I'm so excited to hear about your business and your journey. So from the bottom of our heart. Thank you.

No, no, no. Thank you. My pleasure. I love to share and I appreciate

It. No pressure. No pressure by the way. And, and as you heard in the intro, Jim is Dr. Jim Lorenz. He's an amazing doctor, and we're gonna hear more about that entrepreneurial doctor, which is one of the reasons why I'm so excited to talk to you, because I think many don't think about the medical field as entrepreneurial, but it really is. And we're gonna hear about your unique practice. But I always like to start each of the episodes with something like a quote and then hear your feedback on it. This is a little different, but there was something that I saw that pinged me, and so I'm gonna read you something and then you'll respond to it. And it's what's called the Seven Rules for Life. And they are smile. It always works out in the end. Be kind. You always have the power to make people feel good. Don't give up if it doesn't work the first time. Find another way. Don't compare everyone's on a different journey. Avoid negativity, avoid negative thoughts, situations, and people make peace with your past. Focus on being present and creating a better future. And the last one, take care of your body and mind. One struggles to survive without the other. So what comes to mind for you when you hear that?

Well, you know, right away those all resonate with me. 'cause it's kind of, you know, this, but what I practice a bit too, 'cause it's so important in your health, you know, but ironically, 'cause I just left seeing a few patients this morning, is I have a very similar thing posted in one of our rooms and I saw, and the very first thing is always smile. And what's so funny that that was the first thing you brought up. So, and, and, and that was just truly organic right there. So the but the, yeah, yeah, it's, I think the biggest thing is in, in that kind of quote, I think is, is that you, I believe from the heart, you always have to try and initiate and have fun and smile and lift yourself up even if you're not in that place. And so you can lift others up. Because the reality is, is that we all, I believe innately need to, you know, there's an underlining like fulfillment to help others. And, and that, and I think that's just resonates so much in any business, by the way, but also in your health.

Right. And, you know, your business is about helping others. And so, you know, obviously you went into traditional medicine a a as in terms of your education to a certain degree. And then I think you can share a little bit more about maybe less traditional medicine in how you practice today. Yeah. But how did you shift from this idea of going into the medical field and then actually when you realize, wow, this is entrepreneurial, what I'm doing here. This is a business I am building, it's a practice with customers, and I need to take good care of those customers and build this entrepreneurial empire that I'm building. So talk a little bit about the early stages when that started for you.

Yeah, it, well, and it's, it's funny because even it's, it's, it doesn't resonate well with me when you use that word yet. I know that essentially I am that, and it took a lot of years, obviously you go into medicine and you go into med school and you train in fellowships and all these things with, you know, a whole different intent, which is, you know, from a passion and a caring and wanting to help others. And, you know, there is that aspect of course, of like, you want, we all want financial stability in life. So, you know, that in, in the field of medicine is attractive because I, my father was a physician, always said, this is that, son, you'll always be needed. If you do medicine, you'll always be needed. And no matter what's going on in the world, I mean, even at World War or something, you know?

Right. You're always gonna need. So, but, but so my entrepreneurial though, part, I, I don't think it even resonated with me for years and years after I was already out. But it really hit me again, not that I was even cognizant of it, but I went out on my own. So I was, I had finished my residency and my fellowship and training and, and that, and I was working actually with my father in a practice. And at that time, just a general practitioner, a little bit of sports medicine. And after a couple years of that, I was disenchanted. Didn't kind of like, you know, what I was doing, even though patients loved me. And, you know, our practice was well, and, you know, it was fun because I was, you know, the doctor's son, even though I was the doctor. And you know, it, it, so there, there was some nice things about that.

But I wanted to do my own thing. I saw myself in a different direction and things that resonated more with me. And, you know, I I I, you know, not to sound funny with what this podcast is about, but I need the leap, you know? That's right. And, and there's a lot of fear. But I also then found myself, wow. Yeah. Probably two, three years down the road of already in that journey going, wow, I guess I am an entrepreneur. You know, I didn't really think of it that way. I just wanted to survive and keep doing the right thing, you know? Yeah. And, but you end up there, you know, you end up there and then, you know, years later, I, you know, I had somebody, actually an attorney friend of mine that I'd known for years and years, a great mentor. He shared with me, essentially what even Gino has shared with me even years and years later, is that it's okay to make money, to make a good living. There's no, there shouldn't be shame in that, you know? Right. Yeah. And, and I think that's the struggle with always with medicine in the medical community, you know, a bit, you know, there's, there's that little bit of a struggle. So interesting. But, but it's funny that I didn't really realize for years that I was like, oh, wow, I guess I am an entrepreneur

Growing up, did you notice any entrepreneurial tendencies now that you're older and you were reflect on that, or?

Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. I, you know, I was high school. I had my own, you know, window washing company.

Oh my gosh. Is that right?

But if somebody said, oh, you're gonna be an entrepreneur, I probably would've said, what's that? What, what does that mean? I'm like, I wanna make some money for the summer, you know? Yeah. And I was outside getting some sun.

I love it. And I love the way, you know, you listened to your dad, he said that you'll, they'll al you'll always be needed as a doctor. Yeah. But then you had this entrepreneurial side of you that knew that you could build a practice maybe in a different way. And one of the things that you do differently, and, and please correct me because I'm sure I don't have it completely right, but I noticed that you are part of the fellowship in anti-aging, regenerative and functional medicine farm, I guess would be the acronym. And so I built, I wanted to build on this. 'cause to me that's a different kind of medical practice. And is that the ideal business for you? And if so, how did you recognize that?

Yeah, so I had a unique kind of journey, you know, that was very organic in the sense of, I knew I was an athlete, I was very health oriented fit. This is gonna sound odd, but in medicine, traditional medicine in primary care, internal medicine if you will, clinical medicine, we find ourself, when you're in that spot, often practicing, you know, you're, you're looking at a lot of traditional things only. And of course there's problem solving. And then in my space, it was a lot of them referring out for specialty stuff. And for me, it wasn't that rewarding in the sense of, I didn't really, I feel that there was more for me to give and more knowledge that I had. And what happened though is I didn't know where that was gonna take me or what I was gonna do. But what I ended up doing is I had a little bit in my mid thirties health issues.

And the long story short is ma minor stuff, but just fatigue and things I was just going through in life. And I was still trying to be the, the semi-professional athlete, which I had no business doing. 'cause I was a doctor and a father and no husband. And, you know, you know, but, and, and that led me to a fellowship. So this fellowship in regenerative functional medicine, which is just a different, it's medicine, it's a different mindset. It's, it's really dealing with the physiology, the real function of the body, and fixing things versus just a bandaid and kicking the can down the road. And I, I do traditional medicine, of course, there's some amazing things for traditional and advanced medicine, but we incorporate these two in, in this kind of regenerative fellowship that I learned. And then how I built my model. And that kind of really became my, you know, again, not that it was an intentional, but my entrepreneurial leap in the sense of, you know, this is where my passion is, where my interest is, what resonates with me, and it's gonna help, excuse me, it's gonna help others.

Right. And it helped myself in simple things with energy mid, you know, my mid thirties and just some things that were going on that I had learned in medical school. But it was really, you know, kind of the nuts and bolts of medical school. And then you go to like, the pharmacology and the surgery and, you know, the specialty stuff. And there's a lot there that I felt from a functionality, just like a business actually, ironically, just like a business that if you are in tune with, you can really fix and help the body heal and improve and have a higher quality of life. And, and, and just, just like no different really than a business.

Right. So, you know, I think we have a unique opportunity here with you gracing us with your presence. Because at an early stage with your business, you know, you're going so hard and you're so passionate and you're doing everything. You're wearing a thousand different hats. How can you focus on your physical and mental wellbeing at the same time? Do you have any thoughts for us? I just think this is such a unique opportunity for you to help some of these early stage entrepreneurs who are going so hard and don't have time. They don't think they have time.

Well, for sure. Well, a hundred percent. Well, I'm gonna tell you, I didn't, and I crashed. And essentially, I mean, you know, not to get too bogged down in the medical part, but I developed an adrenal issue and an nutritional issue, and a sleep issue, and a mood issue because of basically going to heart, you know, wearing a lot of hats. Again, father, husband, business owner didn't even really, because I'm a, I'm a visionary and just a go-getter and all that, didn't really appreciate the stresses of being an entrepreneur and a business owner. So, you know, basically I, you know, everything's about balance. I mean, just like a business, just like the bo everything's about balance. I was way out of balance, but I was just pushing hard and, you know, worrying about making ends meet with, with, with everything. Not just the business, but with family and obligations and kids and, you know, et cetera.

So I didn't do it. My advice would be to, you'll get a lot farther, a lot faster, and a lot healthier. Just having awareness, you know, awareness of, you know, simple things that keep you, you know, well, if you will keep you focused, keep you energetic, you know, you cannot be an entrepreneur. You cannot run a business if you don't have energy, if you don't have a clear mindset, if you, you know, and, and that goes down to things like sleep. And it goes down to things like good nutrition, and it goes down to simple things that we have to do. Meaning we have to sleep, we have to eat, okay. And potentially, some of us are sitting a lot, so you're gonna feel a lot better, you're gonna be a lot healthier moving. So just awareness of, of some simple things. And obviously I do and go way, way, way deeper than any of that.

But the point is, that's just some simple stuff because I think it gets like overlooked. I, I got so many patients that I deal with that are entrepreneurs and big CEOs and presidents of companies, and you name it, or many companies, long story short is they, I mean, they're sitting all day, they're doing zooms all day, whatever. And it, it, it from a standpoint of everything, you know, a simple blood flow, weight management, you know, right. Cardiovascular health, brain health, you know, stress reduction. I mean, they don't get sunlight and they don't move. We gotta start there sometimes. But, but it's, no, it's not to get too winded. It's very critical, very critical to a, have awareness and appreciate your body. Doesn't know any difference in stress, the stress response, good or bad. So meaning too much of anything, you're gonna fall out of balance and you're not gonna be as crisp and sharp and directed as I think you wanna be. Okay. So, you know, hopefully that answers it a bit. Yeah. No,

That's great advice. You know, can you share as you, as you did your leap went out on your own, what did you, was there a point, maybe you didn't frame it this way, but we always like to ask, was there a point where you were like, this is a dream, this whole thing? Like, I can't believe this.

Yeah. Every day.

I love it. When do you, do you have any time point in time where you got going and you got in your flow and you were like, wow, like it was five years ago and this happened?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I think what happened is the, the, the truth is this, I, I think I, you know, I was even in this model, even in functionally helping people and, you know, hiring other practitioners, doctors, nurse practitioners, couple locations, things like this. You know, it was happening. You know, it's just really, it was just, you know, it worked, my model, worked a reproducible model, people, you know, everything's pretty much word of mouth. So I think that was happening. I didn't really appreciate it, you know, like, I think what you're asking. And I think what actually happened was when I took more time for myself and, and I, I started really thinking about the business more, which roughly I would say was about seven years ago. You know, I literally was like, wow, exactly what you said, this, this really works. And not just the people I'm seeing, you know, but the other practitioners that are using my model and, you know, doing this regenerative functional approach and this wellness approach.

They're doing wonderful. And, you know, we were replicating a wonderful thing. And I think, but it was about five to seven years ago, I think, that I really stopped. And, and, you know, not to plug somebody, this is really from the heart, but it was really that, that was through EOS and through Gino. And, and, and, because, you know, I think you know the story of how I met him, but, you know, it, it, it was very funny because I'm running this business and I'm being an entrepreneur. Here he is my patient. You did even, yeah. You know, hopefully I can say that. And I, and I don't care. 'cause I don't, I don't even listening to him, I'm fixing him. You know, what do you got for me? I'm fixing you.

Right.

So, great. And, and I, I one day listened and it was probably about seven years ago.

So, great. You know, oftentimes as entrepreneurs, we have somebody, or some people in our life who are very instrumental mentor us, help us, you know, get through some difficult times, which we're always gonna have them a little bit more easily. Is is there any person or people that come to mind for you? And if so, how important was it that you had somebody like that?

Oh, I, I, it's, it, it's critical. And if you think you don't need that, I think you really need to, you know, check your pulse and really check in with yourself authentically. Hmm. Because the reality is, you know, there is nothing better I think that could help you is people with wisdom and previous experience, even if it's a different experience, even if it's a different perspective. But I've had that, fortunately my whole life. Maybe, maybe I could say I've sought that out my whole life, because it does show up in my life from between, you know, whether it's my father, some good friends, some patients that have become friends. Yeah. But I, I think it's so critical and yeah, they often end up being a little bit older maybe than myself and, or a different path, yet I really respect them. So even they don't need to understand medicine. They don't even need to be that big of an entrepreneur. Maybe they've had just a different experience in leaning into them once in a while. I think really helps. 'cause you know, it gives you a different perspective, for sure. But yeah, down to, Hey, I used one yesterday on a personal reason. I love it. On a Sunday afternoon. Yeah. Had coffee. So good. You need those.

You do. Okay. The, you know, we, in the book Gino writes about these six essential traits that all entrepreneurs have. I'm curious if these resonate with you. Visionary, passionate, problem, solver driven, risk take, risk taker, and responsible. How do those land with you when you hear them?

Well, well, I mean, geez, they're is, did he write that about me or,

There you go. They land, they land square on. Then

This is why you asked and me work so well together. It's, yeah, no, those resonate very well. I mean, actually the thing is, and I didn't even see myself this way, you know, and whether it's the person out there listening right now, or it's somebody in their model, or that they're doing, the visionary part is so critical. 'cause not everybody I think has that. I didn't know I was a visionary. It really, it just, you didn't really think of it that way. But I am, and I, and I, and I actually, I think I, interestingly, I believe a lot of men are, if they really step back and think about it to some degree Hmm. They may not be as aware of it. But the, and, and from a brain cerebral standpoint, that's accurate scientifically. But being a visionary or having a good visionary I think is super critical and everything, I mean, it doesn't matter what you do. Everything has to come with passion, you know, and passion comes from something authentic comes from, you know, serving others in, in whatever that is. I mean, it doesn't have to be medicine and health and healing. It could be, you know, in the food industry or, or could, could, could be in a service you provide or Right. You know. But when it's wi, when it comes from passion, it, it, it, it, it resonates so well with the community and the connection that you, you have. And I think that's essential.

Yeah. Yeah. Also, in the book, Gino writes about these what we, what he calls the must dos for entrepreneurs. And I picked out a few that I was curious about for you. The first one was always have a plan B. And the reason that popped up for me was, I was curious when you left your father's practice and ventured out on your own, if there was ever a moment where you thought, well, if this doesn't work out then, and the other thing is in those seven rules for life at the beginning, one of them was, don't give up. If it doesn't work the first time, find another way. So I kind of felt like maybe you already had that ingrained in you, but what are your thoughts on always having a plan B?

Well, I, I think we, we need that to some degree. You know, I, I think, you know, so, you know, in an, in this context, you know, entrepreneurial wise in that, you know, you need to, we, we have bills, you know, in fact, I always, I always text my kids this, in fact, I did this morning, literally, but they know my joke. It's such a dad joke. It's whatever, you know, when they want something or hey, can we, this or that. I mean, not even money wise, but I'm always like, Hey, I'm just, I gotta go pay some bills. It means go to work. Right. You know, so we, you know, we always, we have these, so I think having a plan B to some degree, some, you know, it helps because we, you need, you, you have to be willing to have a leap of faith and have fear.

And I think fear's not a bad thing because actually we have major empowerment when we overcome that fear. Right. Or we see it on the other end. I mean, that's, that's, that's what it's all about. That's the excitement of being an entrepreneur and having a result. Okay. Yeah. But the, I think having some kind of cushion or some kind of, you know, safety net or some kind of plan B for, for me, what it was. And fortunately, you know, you know, I have the medical license and I know that sounds silly or so simple to say, but it was like, well, I, I did training in er medicine, you know, and, and family practice. So I go back to the er, you know, or you know, I, I always had something I could, I knew I could pay the bills, you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, that was for me personally. Yeah. But if I, you know, I definitely think having some type of plan B, but I also think that you'd never give up. So in a lot of ways, I mean, if you are coming from passion, 'cause I would question the passion if you're giving up, you know? Yeah. If you're giving up or you're easily deterred in your, I, I would second guess what you're trying to achieve.

Yeah, that's great. And I love that you said with your kids, you text them, gotta go pay the bills, which means I gotta get to work. Which another one of the must dos is work hard, really hard. And again, this was something I was thinking about with you because my understanding, and I did try to confirm this, and I feel like I did, but medical professionals have a very high rate of burnout and a much higher rate of suicide, actually, sadly, than the general population. And so I was curious about that and how that landed with you about working hard, really hard, especially in your profession.

Yeah. Well that's, that's loaded and well, here's why it's loaded. Which by the way, for, for some comedy value here, I used to say to my kids, this is pre-cell phone, you know, when they were little that I had to make the donuts. So every time I left the house, I was gonna make the donuts, make the donuts this good. One day they were like, dad, you don't make donuts. They were, they were like, disappointed a bit. They were like, you never bring 'em home. Yeah. So now I just, I gotta pay the bills. Right. You know, by the way, they're all adults now, so they're like, they don't even care when I say I gotta go pay the bills. Right,

Totally.

To go back, you know, I, I think well ask me, ask me again to clarify that, but

Just work hard, really hard, you know, like when we, we have to have a certain work ethic when we take that leap.

Yeah. The thing is, is that of course, you know, being an entrepreneur, you're gonna have to work hard. And, you know, any result comes from hard work of, of course, the reason I said it earlier is loaded is this, I think medicine and why those statistics are very real. And they're very real. By the way, every medical journal I pick up these days, okay. Every single one, or, you know, or, or something I follow, you know, social media wise, that's on the medical end or through the a MA and that this is very true. It's an epidemic in medicine. It's, it's, it's a whole nother topic. I won't get too into it, right. But is burnout, suicide rate, doctors retiring early healthcare professionals? Like, because you have to understand is that you're taking on, it's not just being a business person or, or that you're taking on all this emotional, you know, baggage, if you will, of other people.

Especially if you're passionate about what you do. So why I said it's a loaded question is in a traditional medical approach that is, those numbers are very, very accurate. I think in my model, in what we do and doctors like myself that are in the, you know, wellness, prevention, longevity space, helping people, we're meeting people that are like-minded. You know, these people want to do better, wanna thrive, you know, 'cause one thing we offer is the strongest currency. We offer the strongest currency to everybody. And you know what that is, it is time. We give you better and more time. Okay. We're all gonna die. But that's what, you know, so my model's a little different because I'm never gonna retire. I'm not looking for an end game. I, I love what I do and I won't, I don't burn out because of it, because I've carved out a, a model that supports that.

But I think what you're asking me Yes. Is, you know, I think in, in the true medical traditional approach, it's a grind. And it's hard in that. So I'm gonna ignore that because that's not what we're talking about. Right? Yeah. Thank you. But I wanted to be clear about that. In an, in an working hard though, in an entrepreneurial model, if you're coming from a passion, you gotta be cognizant of the stress. Like I said, everything's about balance. But you, you do. In fact, one of my regrets, I would have, you know, and it's a minor regret, is that when I was a little younger and in this process, you know, being an entrepreneur, not even having awareness of it than that, that I didn't maybe focus more and carve out more and working harder. 'cause I would be more ahead where I see myself now. Interesting. Interesting. And again, I hate to say it's even a regret, but just that I could see how, you know, youth, if you will, we're, we're more easily distracted. I'll just put it that way. You know? And, and, you know, so I, I definitely believe that the hard work is always there. In fact, actually, it needs to be there. And that's also why you shouldn't give up, because I do believe with hard work, you'll get what you want. Yeah. You'll get what you, you truly are after. Yeah.

Another thing I wondered, again, these are must dos is take criticism and doubt with a grain of salt. And I wondered about this with your practice, and maybe it was early on, or maybe it still comes to light today, or maybe nothing at all. But do you, have you received criticism in any way about the type of medicine that you practice? Because your longevity doctor, as you mentioned, and other, you know, many people within the population are not drawn to that and may see that in a different light. And so I'm curious, did, do you receive criticism or doubt from time to time about the type of practice that you have? I,

I used to a hundred per 10 years ago. Oh my gosh. You know, it was like, in fact, actually many people who were like, what the hell are you doing? Like, you know, you, you have a good reputation and you, I know you're smart, and like, are you, what are you doing? So most of that though, is a misconception. You know what I mean? You know, I'm not doing witchcraft and, and, and holistic approaches or integrative approaches are, they're really using physiology and true science. It's just a different philosophy and a different mindset. So yes, early on I got a lot of criticism, I think more and from the medical community a bit. And, and there is still some of that, you know, in judgment, you know, judgment. I, I, I always say, you know, always be careful because truthfully, if you're being judged, you know, look at who you're being judged by and the results of that judgment and where that's coming from.

So I don't even mind that. Truthfully, the funny thing though is, is the most of, now still that's out there a bit, is confusion. You know, what does longevity mean? Right. You know, do I take care of all these geriatric people? No, I, you know, you know, I mean, literally, I've like still get this, like, what does that mean? Oh, oh, you're gonna make me live forever, or that's what you focus on? No, no, no, no one's living forever. We're all gonna die. It's actually programmed in our cells, by the way, genetically. So, you know, but can we expand that time and better time? Quality of life is the big thing. Like I said, that commodity, that that currency, I may, you know, as kind of tongue in cheek, but it's so valuable because the reality is, even in this context, you can't be what you want to be in your business. You can't strive to the goals you want or build the infrastructure you want if you don't have that time, that quality time too. You know, the right mind, the right health, the right energy, the right focus. And that doesn't just happen from the heart. It's gotta be, it's physiologic too, you know, especially as we age.

Right. So I'm curious, 'cause you mentioned your true visionary, and I believe that you are, and you know, one of the things we talk about in our program with the academy is to see it every night. And I'm wondering, is that something that you find yourself doing? Do you see your vision every night? And how this business will continue to move forward in, into whatever success means to how you want it to be?

Well, every night, I don't know about every night. It's

Beautiful. Keep going. This is great.

Yeah. Yeah. I, well, because, you know, I do do a lot of other things besides medicine. And in fact, actually I think that's what keeps me happy and keeps me interested and balanced in that. Yeah. You know, is that definitely. So I wouldn't say I have that vision every night, but I would definitely say, you know, weekly and things like this, there's definitely a mindset of, you know, and, and, and working and building and, you know, seeing things where I want 'em to go and trying to project things where I want to go. And, you know, 'cause really, my, my vision was really, ironically, it started with helping. I wanted to help everybody. I, you know, I could, I could serve and help everybody. Okay. Yeah. And, and it worked, by the way, I mean, I mean, I built a big business and I, you know, had a lot of thousands of patients and thou and many practitioners and et cetera. And I wasn't even really getting burnout in that sense, but it watered down. I needed more time with some of my patients. I needed more focus with some of my patients. So it kind of watered it down. So, you know, I think my vision and my continual vision evolves. And I think a true visionary that does do that, it con it constantly evolves. You know what I mean? In fact, that, that resonated well with me. I I just finished reading a book, 10 x oh gosh, drawing a blank.

Ben Hardy and Dan Sullivan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan Sullivan in that. And you know how that was a concept they talked about in there, you know, is that, and, and I think if I read 10 x by the way, 10 years ago or five years ago, I would've not been prepared for it at all. And now I'm receiving it extremely well. Like, I mean, I totally get it. And it means a lot to me.

So, good. All right. I'm just gonna pause here 'cause I noticed my camera's off. There we go. Okay. All right. 3, 2, 1. Okay. So we talk about in the, in our academy stages that we go through, and I'm really curious about this in a medical practice, do you have an integrator in your business?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. And when did you, when did that come to a realization for you that you are the visionary and you need the person to help execute on, you know, the growth of the company and all the key components?

Well, well, okay, so again, this is not planned or Oh, Ann doesn't need it plugging him, you know? Yeah. His, his Gino, Gina Wickman. So he, you know, is the, the true answer here is I built this model, I'm doing this, et cetera. And I think it's, I mean, I'm, maybe seven years ago or something, I've known Gino, I don't even know now, 12, 14 years, something like that. But he wanted to, oh, I can, I can help you a bit if you never wanna talk, doc, you ever wanna this and that, and I know you've heard this story, Rob, but I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. You know, like I, yeah, I'm busy. I've got, you know, oh yeah, thanks a lot. I do appreciate it, you know, but he's like, all right, you know, and fast forward years, and I want to say roughly about six, seven years ago, about, I was at a lunch with a friend of mine that owns a, a pharmacy.

And he said to me, we, you know, asking about business. And he, oh, it's going good. And he is like, oh man, ours is doing great. Take off, less headaches, this and that. He's like, I read this book. He pulls out his phone, he shows me the book, and I'm looking, and it says, the author was Gina Wickman. I go, Gina Wickman. I go, he's my patient. I know him. I literally pick up the phone, I, I call him right at that moment, which my friend by the way, sitting across from me going like, what? Like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, Gino, what do you do? And I go, Hey, can we, can I pick, can you, I'll take you up on this coffee now after all these years. So the truth was that when I sat down with him at a Starbucks, and I realized I, I mean, it was like this, oh, I'm the visionary. I didn't know that. Right. And he, he is like, you need a, you know, you, you need an implementer, you need an integrator, you know, a hundred percent. And then, you know, again, I read book and, and I started the process, but I realized then, and that helped us leaps and bounds and organized us, you know, way, I mean, we, headaches became minimal, right? And they were all, every week they were happening every day they were happening. And, and, you know, it helped. It helped a lot.

And so, you know, in those early stages before EOS, and then you can speak to how things changed if they did. But you know, one of the stages that we talk about is communicating frequently with your employees. Oftentimes when we start, there's a co maybe one person who's you and maybe, or maybe it's two or three. And then, you know, as it grows, there's more communication that needs to take place. How important was that for you? And then how did you go about making sure you were communicating frequently?

Well, it definitely, yeah, for me, originally it was just one, I had like one manager, you know, right. Essentially, if you will. And, and she is still with me 16 years. And it's, I love her to death. She's the best. And she's like family. But what's so funny is, is that I feel bad. I feel guilty 'cause put a lot on her, those few early years, you know? But I think as I implemented, you know, this, this structure, ironically, it was kind of like a structure. This is why Gino and I and EOS and all that resonates so well is my model is a structured model, essentially. Like run, like your, we run your body a little bit like us. I mean, it make, you know, simply put file metrics, et cetera. So I realized, wait a second, he's telling me this. I'm reading in a book.

A few people out there have listened and read this book. A couple, I mean at least. And just a couple, just a few. And it's working, and I'm doing it in my practice, and I know this is working. So I'm like, I'm gonna listen and pay attention. And after, you know, starting that communication with a few other people and using my manager to kind of, you know, communicate in our practice and in the infrastructure, we, we just built that out slowly. It's a slow process, but you build that out. Yeah. And fortunately for me, I was really big on office culture and my employees and taking care of 'em. And most of my employees have been with me for years and years. And, you know, I proud of that. You know, we don't have turnover a lot even. And, and patient-wise, turnover a lot. You know, po point is, is that it's, you know, the culture part is really key.

So I'm always been really big on the communication to, to a fault. 'cause they say I talk too much my staff, but, but I am cognizant of it. And it's really key because being in touch with your, your foundation of what's, you know, running the ship is so critical. Yes. And it, it, and when instead of a fire, you're putting out, you're putting out a spark. Right. You know, something, you know, I mean, and you're, you're just in touch. And by the way, they appreciate that. So it's not like their, their light, their load becomes easier, you know? Right. So communication is critical.

Did you ever notice at any point from the early days, maybe to now, this idea of staying in your personal sweet spot? In other words, you have certain strengths that you bring to the business, and maybe early on you were doing things that weren't within that, but now you're, maybe now you're more in that sweet spot. Did you notice that from the early days?

Oh, yeah. And when I look back, yeah, yeah, it was all over the road, which, which by the way, visionaries will often do that, you know? Yeah. They have this big vision, but they'll tend to, you know, that's why they need somebody to harness 'em like a Mustang, you know, so, you know, the Yeah, I, I definitely realized that there was a sweet spot, a place that resonated with our patients well, that served them well, that I felt fulfilled and was still passionate about. And, you know, it, it took, obviously there was a few years for sure after I started this, you know, it might've been three or four years even, where, you know, it wasn't just, you know, doing a little bit of everything and helping everybody. We narrowed it down to like, what our sweet spot was. And I think that was critical, because it's kind of related to that Dan Sullivan book, the 10 x book is that you, you think differently, and you can really, in the business model, you know, you get really good at what you're good at. And when that happens, I mean, the growth is very fast, right? And it's hard to believe from the outside that happens, but you're watering down some of the energy and the time, which is things that do have bandwidth. So when you, when you water that down, it's like, well, you're not gonna get to where you wanna get as fast, for sure.

Right. And then as you grow and you start to have this trajectory, we always talk about preventing the business from getting away from you. And I'm curious, you know, as a medical practice, I don't know how reliant you are on other medical professionals to grow the business, and that, that makes it more challenging. But has there been times where you've like, wow, this thing is growing so fast, you know, I gotta pull it back a little.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I, I'm fortunate enough 'cause I, I do have a lot of relationships and a lot of other physicians and referral base, and I refer to them in that. And, you know, of course respect and hospitals, et cetera too, you know, but I don't rely on, I think personally, this is just my perspective and my, my space. I think the best referral, 'cause he brought that up, is from within, meaning a good product, whatever that is. Like in my space, obviously, it's caring for people doing the right thing. They're doing better, feeling better, improving energetically, if you will. Not to sound, you know, too, too holistic, but energetically that's gonna perpetuate itself. And in the business model, any business model, I think that is your best referral. You know, your best referral is the results, you know, and, and whatever that is, you know, and, you know, but is that answering you?

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, another thing that I'm curious about, because in your position, obviously you're so busy meeting with your clients and whatever else goes on to follow up and all the aspects of what you do. But learning, coaching, training, mentoring, all these types of things, how important is that to you as the visionary of the organization, and how do you find time to do it?

Yeah, so that's a great question. And honestly, I I'm not that busy.

I love it.

Well, I did take a course from you.

Okay, great. That's

Good. I don't, I'm not, I'm not succeeding at all disciplines. I already shared that with you, but, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting there. No, but I, I literally, because of what you just asked me prior about carving out my sweet spot, right. Our practice, sweet spot. Building a good infrastructure, you know, and having an integrator, a great, you know, implementer, you know, and, and, and a really, a good

Leadership team,

You know, foundation for us. Yeah.

That has saved me essentially, you know what I mean? Wow. I mean, I mean, that's critical and, and, and it's, you know, and then, so I, of course, I work a lot. I work a lot and I'm driven and passionate. So of course that's being, you know, so if you ask an outsider, they're gonna tell you, like, even my wife, et cetera, you know, like, oh, he works a lot and you know, oh yeah, he's, he's busy, busy. The reality is compared to my past, everything's perspective Yeah. Is, I was, you know, it's different being busy and passionate and energetic in what you do and being fulfilled. But I have made a sweet spot that allows me time for what matters, including personal, you know, stuff including family and friends and relationships and community in that. And by the way, so, so rewarding and, and empowering to feel that too, because, you know, that alone lets you breathe and grow more.

The thing is, I think some of the growth gets stalled, which I was doing a few years ago. When you don't see it that way. It's like grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. Again, I can't say enough if, if, if a patient comes to me, by the way, 'cause one of the, the number one complaint people go to the office, you know, I think you probably know this besides back pain, but any, this is, this isn't no statistical is fatigue. The number one people go to see their doctor, the number one reason other than a checkup is fatigue other than lower back pain. I, and that's not comical. And why are you fatigued? I mean, you know, yeah. Again, on a medical, and I can get into that, but the point can be as simple as, you know, you're out of balance. And yes, in my ask, maybe it's hormonal, maybe it's nutritional, maybe it's sleep, whatever. But it could be stress. You know, there's studies that even show this. 90% of illnesses and medical visits are based on stress. And what is stress? What's being out of balance.

Amazing. I'm curious, while we have you, I've gotta ask, you mentioned lower back pain is, I can't tell if that's the number one thing or fatigue's number one, but they sound like they neck and neck. Yeah. They're what, what? Talk about the lower back pain and what, what is going on there for people?

Well, well, I mean, a lot of it technically, I mean, there's, again, I don't wanna discount real structural Yes. You know, physiologic back pain. So what I mean is I'm not discounting a herniated disc, right. Or a nerve impingement or an injury or, you know, but there's a big, big, big, big faction of, because we're out of shape, we're not moving, we're not, we're not getting good blood flow. Our this is our, our, our core, our core is from gravity even and functioning and all that. When you are, again, it's an out of balance. Our body's out of balance. You know, we've gained fat. We're not muscular, you know enough, we're not stable enough, we're not limber enough, we're not moving, we're not getting blood flow and lymphatics moving enough. It sounds very simple, but what, what resolves most functional back pain, physical therapy. I mean, and so what I mean, but what sometimes what are they, they're not doing a miracle in physical therapy. Okay. Not to discount them. They're, they're great. And we have great ones we refer to and use, and it's very, very important because it directs people. But a lot of time it's just like, Hey, you need to move, you need to stretch, we need to work on your weight. You know, we need to build a stronger core and I mean, just look around. Yeah. Not to, not to sound,

You know. Yeah, absolutely. Why does it show up there?

Well, well, because think about it. You, your center, your, your, the, the way gravity pulls us and works on us, okay? And you know, how we move and operate is at our waistline, is at our lower back, at our pelvis. And that, and so when you're gaining, you know, what we don't want, by the way, is the belly's getting bigger and the back's getting weaker. You, you're gonna get muscle integrity issues. You're gonna get inflammation. And we never, okay, and this is why I am a realist with longevity. We will never outlive our structure. Our structure is always being worn and torn, you know? Okay. You know, I, I have a saying, steel still rusts as good as we get steel still rusts, you know what I mean? Meaning our frame, our struc is gonna get wear and tear. I don't care what you look on the outside, you see these guys that are 70, 80 years old, God bless 'em, these are my patients.

Even, they're fit, they're energetic, they're thriving, running the business, they're okay. But the reality is we have to have talks about their true structure, meaning the bones, the wear and tear, the cartilage, whatever that's gonna happen. So to answer you, and I think get at it, you know, also depending on age and wear and tear. Yeah. You, we all get joint arthritis, which makes you predisposed to something like back pain, and especially at a core area with so much dynamic motion, like the lower back. But I'll tell you to just to help even a few out there Yeah. Movement work and make sure that your core is strong in weight loss and get just movement in general, you know, and, and then, you know, not, not to plug something that's really, really and important, but I think overlooked with aging is hormones. Hormones are so anti-inflammatory. When we age and our hormones decline, you will inflame. Hmm. And when you inflame, it could be your shoulder, it could be your back, could be your knee or whatever, but you're gonna be prone to have pain. Yes. Like back pain.

So, good. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, one last question for you, which is, what advice comes to mind for you for an early stage entrepreneur as you draw back on 16 years ago when you jumped into this thing took the leap? What advice would you have for somebody who's starting today and you know, has one to nine employees? Not quite a million dollars in sales yet.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a tough question. I know it's a tough question, you know, because I am trying to reflect even on some people I know and what they would say, because some of us get going and get started early on, and, and it's literally we're leapers, you know, we leapt and we had no clue. You know what I mean? That's right. So, you know, but I would, I would say this, and I know I brought it up before, but I, I think it's so important and it's gonna show up. And the people that can really work at this and come from this, this place, they are going to thrive. And that's passion. You gotta come from a place of passion, you know, serving others, caring for others. E even if it's in, again, this a business, you know, think what I mean. Literally, if you're an accountant, I'm just making something up. Right? Great. But like, taking care of them, you know, not just crunching numbers and here's your, you know, caring about 'em coming from passion and compassion, but being passionate about what you do leaps and bounds, and, and, and you'll, you won't fail.

I love that. Thank you for that perfect answer.

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. WANs, thank you. Off the hip soap. Say again?

I said off the hip, man. Off

The hip. There you go. There you go. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. I'm so grateful to you.

No, no, pleasure, pleasure. No, thank you very much. Pleasure.

And to all the amazing entrepreneurs listening today, I greatly appreciate you spending time with us. And as always, I wish you all much love and gratitude.