Welcome to Alumni Live: The Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University film and video

graduates about the industry, the film, video, major and alumni profiles.

Welcome back to Alumni Live the podcast.

My name is Marin Roth and I'm a senior film and video student at

Grand Valley State University.

Today we're gonna be talking about the Michigan Film Credits Incentive Bill.

Which , in layman's terms is just subsidizing films being made in Michigan.

Today I'm talking with representative John Roth, who represents the 104th

district of the Michigan House.

John has a history in marina management where he has a history

of hosting independent filmmakers.

Also, he's my dad.

Thanks for joining us representative dad.

Well, thank you very much for the invitation to be on the podcast.

We're happy to have you.

.So, can you tell me a little bit about this Michigan film credits

incentive bill that's coming through?

Absolutely.

So the big emphasis on this one is to change for the better what we missed

out in 2008 So the first credits were in 2008 they happened for about six years

approximately And then we're phased out one of the things we missed in that first

bill package was production and keeping that production in the state of Michigan.

I think we missed the goal a little bit.

We wanted people to come in and film in Michigan and see

how beautiful the state was.

But at the time we thought, well they would just stay then if they

saw how beautiful the state was.

Well, I don't think the incentives were set up that way.

The incentives should have been produce the movie in Michigan, then

get your film credit at that point.

We are focusing the new bill on production using Michigan talent, Michigan products.

Michigan facilities where the movies and commercials and documentaries,

miniseries, you name it, are actually produced in Michigan.

That's the end part of it where it's editing and those kind of things.

Once you get that, then you can realize a tax incentive for doing that.

Can you just kind of outline again in layman's terms what's in the bill?

What is this?

Tell us all about it.

So the bill this time around want to make sure that , we're producing,

editing, and giving that Michigan stamp on the, film or commercial,

whatever else is being filmed here in Michigan, then you realize a credit.

So there's no money guaranteed until actually that product

is finished in Michigan.

That's the real difference from the old bill.

Can you tell us little bit about the mechanics of the bill?

What does it look like if you're going to be making a

film, applying for this credit?

If I were a filmmaker and I wanted to make a film, what would

that process look like for me?

How would I be able to benefit from that?

Well, you come into Michigan, you do your filming, no

different than you would today.

But, at the end of the project, If you produce that movie in Michigan,

so you actually do the editing and those kind of finished parts to

it, you can realize a tax credit.

So, up to 30 percent of a tax credit you're able to get after the fact.

So, you have to finish the product in Michigan.

And then you could realize this tax credit.

There is a little caveat to it, and that is we are offering

a transferable tax credit.

So, if you are a very small company that comes in and does, let's say, a

documentary, and you spend a million dollars doing that documentary, at the

end, produce that in Michigan, you do have a 30 percent credit available to you.

But maybe you are so small that you want to get some cash infusion.

So you can do a studio or some other project.

You can actually sell that credit to a Michigan company.

So let's say just one of the major auto companies.

Let's say it's one of them.

They come in and say, you know what?

I'll buy that tax credit from you.

I'm not going to give you the 300, 000 that you're due,

but I'll give you 250, 000.

And you as a filmmaker or a documentary maker can take that cash

and put it towards another project in Michigan or doing a studio.

And then the auto company is going to receive that tax credit at the year.

Could be an interesting thing for those small companies really

trying to get up and running.

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

Yes it would.

so, why do you care?

You're a representative from , mid Michigan, but from northern

Michigan for the past 30 years.

you used to work in marina management, you used to be a blue collar worker, why now?

Why does it matter to you?

It's a real good part.

so it was brought to my attention whether or not I would even consider

being part of this package, and I remembered back to when this movie,

this independent movie, was filmed at the marina that I run still today.

They came to me, they dropped off a film card and said, this

was I think right around 2008 or 2009, I believe it was 2008.

I got a card on my desk that said the West Michigan Film Industry.

I didn't know what that was.

I didn't have a clue what was going on.

So for a month, I let it sit on my desk.

Finally, I talked to one of my staff, what, what's this card about?

And they said, well, there was a guy that came by, said they

might want to film a movie here.

Okay, I actually called the office and they said.

Yeah, that's not a joke.

We have a company that would like to film a movie at your marina, and they'll be

here in August to take a look and see if that's really what they want to do.

And I said, that's great, but when do they want to film?

And they actually said November.

And I said, November in northern Michigan?

Are you crazy?

You know what the weather is going to be like?

Snow, rain, blowing, miserable.

Yeah, I hope you have a parka.

Hope you have a parka.

Hope you got a lot of warm clothes for the actors.

but they were serious about doing it.

The tenor of the film was kind of a little bit of doom and gloom and

a little bit of a depressive nature.

We filmed the movie, got it done in the first week in December when the snow did

hit, with boats still in the water, but we got it done and then I talked to them

about what, what's your future plans here?

We're going 40 percent tax credit in a form of a check from the state

of Michigan and taking it to New Mexico to actually produce the

film and edit the film out there.

At that time I kind of was thinking this is not a sustainable way to go.

This is not doing anything for Michigan.

So I was actually against these film credits.

I said, this is not good.

So when they came to me and said we want to attack it a different way.

And that is actually trying to build a industry in Michigan by

incentivizing the production in Michigan.

I said, let's take a look at that.

there was economic benefit to Northern Michigan right around the

Traverse City area with this film being made two and a half million

dollars were spent around the area.

for this last, this movie to be there.

But, we didn't see the end product.

And that's what I wanted to see and that's what these new bills do.

I think about when I graduate, I want to work in camera, I really like

cinematography, so I can see myself being able to get a job in Michigan.

But for my friends who are audio students or post production students, they're

all planning on moving out of the state.

, New York, Los Angeles, Georgia.

I'm not sure that they're particularly keen on moving out of the state,

it's just, that's where the jobs are.

That's where the production studios are.

It's funny that you say that because actually being interviewed by a local

TV station oh, about a month ago.

At the end of the interview, the reporter said, Rep, can I

talk to you about something?

Sure, let it rip.

She said, all the people in the news station were wanting

to be in film production and photography, all around films.

And they had to, settle, though they're happy with their jobs, but

had to settle for being in a newsroom instead of being in movie studios.

So, there's a lot of that.

And I've also said that you would consider South Carolina because

your grandpa and grandma live there.

It makes some sense You know that big deep blue state does this kind of credit.

What are we doing, 40 states offer them.

Michigan does not so it's not even an opportunity for many of our kids to

even stay There was a huge article just this weekend about the droves of Gen

Z moving out of the state of Michigan.

I don't say this is a silver bullet that will keep all of them home, least it's

an opportunity to keep some of them home.

And we are losing that population huge out of the state of Michigan.

And some people have said to me, well whatever, they'll

come back when they get older.

Well, that's a problem because as we lose these young people out of the state, and

this state gets older by age every ten years, who's going to do those services

that the older folks in our state need?

It won't be the young people because they're not here, and when

they come back as an older person, they're gonna need the services.

So we're losing all those young people, and this is an opportunity

to keep some of them home.

Yeah and I think a lot of people my age do like to do freelancing.

They like to kind of do their own thing.

And I think, nobody my age is really looking to well, I won't say nobody,

but none of us are looking to be rich.

None of us want to be like that really big filmmaker, you know,

a Taika Waititi, for example.

and having something like a film credit would just make it so

that you could pay the bills.

So you could actually do what you love and at least get by and be

able to have it be sustainable.

And there's two parts to that.

One thing we have to be very sure to receive, production credit.

Because really that's where we're at.

Yes, we'll do films, but we're also going to do commercials.

We're going to do documentaries.

You know, the big three automakers don't film their commercials in Michigan.

They go where it's cheaper.

That's why you see a Chevy whatever, or a Ford whatever, by the mountains.

Yeah, parked at the edge of the cliff.

At the edge of the cliff.

Or even a ocean, for God's sake, right?

Yeah.

When you have beautiful Lake Michigan and Lake Huron, you could

photograph these vehicles there.

It just doesn't happen because they have to do it where

they can be more affordable.

Now, I say that there's other things to this too.

we just got to think ahead and be real, curious about, how this is going to work.

And, I think we're on the right path.

You mentioned South Carolina, you mentioned that it was, a blue state,, a

film credit like this, is it politicized?

What's the kind of pushback you've gotten from who?

What's the kind of feedback that you're getting?

overall, positive, I will say that probably, My Republican side of the

aisle is going to be the one that pushed back the most, unfortunately.

there is some real lazy journalism going out there that want to

equate this to 2008's film credits.

This is different.

And if you have read the bill, you know it's different.

It's not even close to the same.

But there are some organizations that just keep throwing out

this 2008, it's going to fail.

2008, it's going to fail.

If it was 2008, it will fail because we saw that this isn't what it is.

This is a new version of these bills that actually go for the in

state credit and in state services.

We need to look at it totally different.

I've already gotten some criticism for doing this.

I don't care.

because it's important to me that we look at all options to keep youth

here and, economic development.

And this one is, if nobody comes in and does a film here,

there's no monies put out.

If, it doesn't work for them, they don't come in, there's nothing lost.

If somebody does come in and wants to produce a small movie or a

commercial, documentary, whatever, then they can realize the credit.

This is not a situation where we have a bundle of money that we want to throw at

people as soon as they come in the state.

That's not the case.

They have to earn this credit.

. And that's the key to this whole program, is that they have to earn

this by doing things in Michigan.

They gotta commit.

They have to commit.

there's been some, conversation that says this is only gonna bring in

Hollywood elites, , Hollywood elites are gonna fly into Michigan and take over.

No, it's not

41 states, if we do this, they get to choose from all 40 states.

That isn't what we're aiming for.

Sure, there might be a big budget movie that gets filmed in Michigan.

And yes, an actor's going to make a lot of money for that.

But what about everybody underneath that,, the production staff, camera

people, you know, you name it.

Those people don't make huge money, but they can make a nice career in Michigan.

It just relayed to me back in about that same time in 2008, maybe a

little bit before that, we had a national conversation whether or

not you should belong to a country club or should you buy a yacht and

should you buy an expensive car?

No one talked about who makes those products work.

Who are the greens keepers?

Who are the staff and the conference services in the golf course?

The pro shop people that work there.

They'd be the same in a boat maker in Cadillac We have a great boat

maker there when those things happened Cadillac was shut down.

People are no longer making boats.

No one's doing the fiberglass work, the upholstery.

When we get into those kind of conversations, they don't make sense.

Because everybody forgets about the people actually doing the work.

and the same here, when somebody says Hollywood elites, it drives me nuts.

Because that is a very small portion of anything that happens

when you look at all the people surrounding the actual industry.

0.

001 percent Josh Lucas, 99 percent Marin from Traverse City.

That is correct.

Or any other.

And that was another one that we talked about that at a economic conference

about three weeks ago on a Friday.

And a young man stood up and said, what are you doing for young people?

And there wasn't a lot of good conversation there.

There weren't a lot of good things that people said.

So I mentioned that I was working on film production and actually afterwards

there were multiple parents that came up and said My daughter is going to be

at Michigan State next year with film production My daughter is a sophomore

at Grand Valley right now My son is going to Lawrence Tech and then I had

many other that said, you know I have a daughter that's in LA right now working.

I God to have a chance at having her come home and work in the state there are so

many people that are not talked about that are out of the state now that would come

back and work if they had an opportunity.

Shifting gears a little bit.

Why do you think it's important for film students like me and my

classmates to pay attention to this bill, and other government policies?

Oh, it affects you more than it's going to affect me.

Look, I'm making the laws right now, but how long are they going to help me?

And how long are they going to affect you?

I think our youth need to start paying attention to politics a lot more.

You guys need to know what's going on and pay attention now.

I know you're busy in college and all that kind of stuff, but once you

get into a career or starting your life into a business of any kind,

you need to start paying attention to what we're doing in Lansing.

But, you need to know, we need your support There are going to be

people that are going to push back on these bills because they just

refuse to listen or read the bill.

And they generalize it to something it's not.

The more people we have that will say this will help me or my child

or my friend compared to those pushing back against it, I think

it's very important to have that.

So then, follow up, what can young people do, like myself, to help you?

Well, talk to your friends, send letters to the legislature.

I'd say, not just you, but your parents, everybody, needs to start sending notes

and letters to their representatives.

I had a call just yesterday that was chastising me for doing this, that

had a conflict of interest because my daughter's in this industry.

Well, yeah, that's kind of, that's the point.

Hard to, hard to get around that.

But it's not just my daughter.

It's so many other daughters and sons out there in this industry too.

It's not a small industry and we need to make sure people know

it's not just one or two people.

This is going to affect thousands.

And that's what we need to know.

So we need your advocacy to every rep in the state needs to hear from their

constituents saying It's not just one or two people, it's in every single

county in the state of Michigan.

We're taking a short break to tell you about the Dirk Koning

Memorial Film and Video scholarship.

Here's Gretchen Vinnedge remembering Dirk Koning.

The Koning Scholarship enables students to get that kind of an education, to be

a good filmmaker, to be able to express their voice and to continue Dirk's dream.

For more information, and to donate to the scholarship, visit

the link in the description.

Now, back to the show.

As a college student who's already kind of mystified by that sort of thing, can

you break down for me what the process of, writing to your legislator should be?

Like, is it email?

Is it over letter?

What's the kind of, like, stuff that we should be saying?

Should we keep it short?

Yeah.

Should we just show up at the office and request a meeting?

Nothing wrong with showing up at the office any time.

It may be harder depending how active the legislator is.

Yeah.

You know, the senators the number of committees the senators have is, is crazy.

I mean, they have some of them, eight and seven committees.

I have four committees, so it's not quite as, complex, but I would

say letters, but not form letters.

I get forum letters all the time that say, vote for this, don't vote for that.

And it's, I'm a constituent..

Oh, okay.

I want to hear that it's from Traverse City, Grawn, Kingsley, Interlochen,

Meeseck all my, you're all called to action.

That's right.

I want to know where you're from and are you in my district.

And give just why it affects you.

Why does it make a difference?

I want to hear a specific thing from you that's different than everybody else.

Yeah, so you don't want to hear, Oh, here's a statistic on Michigan.

you want to hear, I'm a person.

I'm a person who lives in Michigan.

specifically a young person who's kind of scared about the future.

Right.

Because, I won't lie, we all are.

Absolutely.

Yeah, and hearing that, like, it does humanize the issue, doesn't it?

It's easy to say, Josh Lucas, George Lucas, both people that

have probably been to Michigan.

are gonna come over and do the film.

It's so easy to say that.

But if you can pull up a letter and say, I am Maren, I'm from Interlochen, Michigan.

I love cameras, and I love Michigan.

But boy am I afraid to find a job after this.

Absolutely, and just personalize it.

It doesn't have to be a long letter.

I'd rather see a one page.

Two paragraph thing that says why you're concerned or why you're active in this

what you're potentially doing And that you're from my district I want to hear

from those people And we need to be very good voice on this Like I said, there

are people be lazy and say this is just like the last one that's what I hear

from unfortunately a handful of people.

So far it's been more positive than negative, but there are groups that

could get active on the negative side that push it out there too.

so far I don't think, I don't see that.

I see a lot more positive it seems to affect everybody,

including the UP of Michigan.

they have some great areas up there that could really benefit from this too.

I just had a thought about, the idea that it'll be a bunch of,

Hollywood people coming in here that'll only benefit the elite.

I think about, how many years ago was it that Batman vs.

Superman was filmed in Lansing?

Right.

People weren't coming in droves to Lansing.

Well, it was Detroit more, more in the industrial area of Detroit, actually.

again, they came in and out, and fast.

Yeah.

And that's the difference between.

What we're trying to do today where you would stay here and be a long term

Production facilities that stay here active through many years to come If

Georgia can do it, Michigan can do it.

Georgia is another one of those blue states Georgia's a red state,

South Carolina's a red state, North Carolina Indiana, Ohio.

So that like pushback that you're getting from that side of the aisle.

In this.

Committee, there were actually some pushback by a couple Democrats in there

They didn't like the transferable tax credit or wanted to know more about that

and another person was really concerned that these aren't all union jobs Which

kind of bothered me it's going to be both union and non union everybody's a

little bit different and like you said a lot of people like to move around.

They want to be free to do whatever they want to do.

They don't want to be locked into a situation where they

have to do certain things.

it's going to invite all types of jobs to this.

like you said, there's documentary, there's commercial, independent films.

The streaming services that are out there could be doing movies

or videos or whatever up here.

Now, there is a limit

I was gonna say, what is like, what exactly does it support?

if you're doing a podcast, could you apply?

No, more likely that's not going to be big enough.

It's going to have to be something, a little bigger than that.

And it's defined in the bill.

I Because it does say the limits and how big they need to be to even qualify.

It's not all big stuff, though.

I would guarantee that.

Somebody that's doing an indie movie.

Or if Tim Allen decides he wants to do a mini series or, a weekly show in

Michigan, he can certainly do that.

I would pay to see that.

I actually want Tim Allen to do a weekly Michigan series.

Certainly anybody that's in that industry could stay home and do it.

So then I have a fun little quirky question for you.

Here's a little interlude.

lots of things are made in Georgia, and then you have that

end card, the Georgia peach.

Correct.

If you could choose an end card for Michigan, what are you thinking?

Are we gonna do the bridge?

You know, probably.

I mean, the Mackinac Bridge makes the most sense, and it's the most

common symbol that we have in Michigan, Could be different things.

A barn.

A car.

Could be a boat.

A snowmobile for that matter in Michigan.

That's funny.

And that way we know we're doing, we're connecting both Upper Peninsula

and Lower Peninsula to this.

Yeah.

If the bill gets passed, when the bill gets passed, if we're being optimistic.

how long before it goes into effect?

What's that going to look like?

Depends on how it's passed.

So there is, just to take you through the whole process,

so starts out in a committee.

We did an Economic Development Small Business Committee.

We probably will pass that out or take a vote on it here in the next couple weeks.

the Senate is also doing the same thing.

So the Senate has two bills similar that they're going to run

through their committee there.

So once we get it passed committee, then usually it takes one or two

weeks to get to the house floor.

I suspect potentially April where a vote would take place on the house floor.

And then the Senate would do something very similar.

Now these bills being from the House and Senate being, I wouldn't say slightly

different, but just maybe a little bit, but the way they're written will go

to a conference committee where they will decide who will get the actual

PA and are the Senate bills better than the House bills or vice versa.

And then once they get that done, when they both pass the House and Senate, if it

goes through the Senate first, it has to come back to the House for a concurrence

vote, and then it goes to the Governor.

So, once the Governor gets it in her hands, if it's passed immediately,

with immediate effect from the Senate, then it usually takes place about

90 days after it's signed into law.

if no action's taken That didn't get immediate effect.

It would take almost a year before it goes actually into effect.

So were hoping very much that the Senate would pass it with immediate effect.

That way we're potentially within 90 days.

To actually get in the hands of any producer of any kind probably would

take a year or two, but the money will be there in the tax credit part of it.

Within that year, as soon as somebody earns the credit, but I'd say it's going

to take, on average, takes about a year to get it to where we're at that point.

So write those letters kids.

sooner we can pass it, the better.

That's right, and get the Senate to give it an immediate effect.

That's a big one.

Can you name some of the people that are involved in this bill, who

have been some big contributors?

Absolutely, really it's been wide ranging.

Interlochen Arts Academy has showed a lot of support many

high schools would have ISDs, the ISDs do a ton of film production.

Our local career tech center.

They're very supportive., IBEW, the Union for the Electricians, very supportive.

You're getting it from economic, centers like, Chambers of

Commerce are very up in it.

Tourism.

I didn't know that we would get the CVBs, which is the Tourism Bureaus.

They are very active in this.

the DDAs that potentially could see some of the action in their cities.

counties even have expressed interest in this.

it's wide ranging in the support.

I think that's fantastic and that lends us to a better chance of getting

this through, because of the very diverse and wide ranging support that

we've gotten from all over the state.

The U.

P.

has got some producers of movies that are small by nature, but Would like to see

more economic development up there and doing movies and, films and commercials.

the UP has been very active in that.

so far it's been amazing to see the number of supporters from different

backgrounds that are actually supportive.

Alright, so sort of wrapping up here, do you have any last thoughts on the bill?

we need to have people consistently advocating for it, because the House

of Representatives right now are a 50 50 tie, not a ton of legislation

is going to go through until April.

So every couple weeks, I'd love to have people write again,

write to your legislators again.

Get new involvement from different groups that might be interested in this.

If it's another arts academy from southwest Michigan, get

them involved writing letters.

we gotta keep it in the forefront.

And, make sure people are aware of this.

Now, I don't like to see a letter every single day, but getting people

involved and understand that this is going to be voted on, it's going to

happen, and just getting more and more people engaged of what's going on.

So, any groups that you might be.

impacted by these bills, get them involved because you never know if you just start

talking to people about what could happen, they get involved and they, and we've had

a great engagement with a lot of people that we never thought we would see.

Be encouraged.

Understand this is an opportunity to keep a lot of this activity in the state

of Michigan, and we need to do that.

And we've got a real opportunity here.

just be positive.

This is a new day and we got a chance.

we have a real good chance of getting this through.

And I think it could be just really, really a great thing for

the youth in our communities.

that really have an opportunity to keep some of our families home here.

I think on my end too.

This is an encouragement for us to kind of band together as film students, especially

because COVID lockdown is over.

We can come together again.

We can meet up outside of school.

We can, get groups of people together to advocate for this sort of a thing.

Advocating for all our kids in the state of Michigan

Thank you so much for talking with me today.

and, fighting for this bill.

Especially on behalf of myself and all of my fellow film friends.

Thank you so much.

This will be super helpful for filmmakers my age and for

other filmmakers in Michigan.

And for listeners, there will be links in the description if you want

to follow up on more information and stay connected with this bill as it

goes on in the next couple of months and as it kind of grows and changes.

And thank you for listening.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.

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