Narrator: This podcast is intended to support UK healthcare professionals with education. The information provided in this podcast is not a substitute for professional medical advice or treatment, and patients are encouraged to consult healthcare providers, including nurses, for any medical questions they may have.

All concerns.

Hannah: Welcome

to Stoma and Continence Conversations from Coloplast Professional, where healthcare professionals and experts by experience discuss the latest hot topics in the worlds of stoma, continence, care, and specialist practice. I'm Hannah Patterson. I've worked in Specialist care and I'm currently the Ostomy Care Associate education Manager at Coloplast.

Today I am joined by Coloplast colleague Matt Mouta.

Matt: Being able to get that control back and being able to, to not have to relive that initial experience because they all have every, everyone I've spoken to said that there is that initial experience. It's really, really important. It's, it's terrified them.

Stomach illness time is finite. They cannot focus on everything. And the fact that getting the correct product in the correct bag is more important for stopping the leakage, they can't always focus on the mental aspect. This will take a significant strain off of the NHS.

Hannah: Hi Matt, thanks for joining me.

How are you?

Matt: Hi, Hannah. I'm really good. Thank you. How are you?

Hannah: I'm really good. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming and joining me. Now, I'm going to let you do your own introductions, because I don't think anybody listening from outside Coloplast will know who you are. So, I'm going to allow you to do your own little introduction, if you can.

Matt: Right. Well, obviously my name is Matt. Today is actually my three month anniversary of working at Coloplast. I started on the 12th of December, 12th of March. I have joined the Heylo marketing team under Adrian Somerson and it's been amazing since sort of the first day I've started.

Hannah: Oh, I can't believe how quickly three months have gone.

Matt: It has gone absolutely rapidly. I had about two weeks just before we broke up for Christmas, for the Christmas holidays. And, um, obviously those were just an introduction, meeting people, saying hello, seeing the office. But then from, from straight after Christmas until now, it feels like it's just been, it feels like it's been a week.

I've been to Denmark to head office. I've been all over the place, all over the country doing nurse trainings. And, and now I sort of sit here and just think it's. It's flown by, you know, it's gone really quickly and I've enjoyed every second of it.

Hannah: From what you're saying, you sound so similar to me, that you've had such a massive learning journey in a short amount of time.

If you could tell us a little bit about your background before joining Coloplast, then that'll give the listeners an idea of where you've come from.

Matt: So I, um, well, I would say recent graduate, but it was back in September, so obviously a little while now. Before I joined I was a recent graduate. I, uh, studied in Nottingham at the university of Nottingham doing a masters in marketing.

Before that I was again still in Nottingham, Trent. I did a sport and exercise science. So a bit of a change there, but during the COVID pandemic, I just sort of had a change of heart, I really got into, into marketing and, um, I don't sort of developed a keen interest, so I really wanted to sort of pursue that.

And, uh, they were back into the masters a couple of years, actually, I think two years after I finished. But yeah, so I've got a bit of sort of a mixed, mixed background, I've got a science background and a marketing background now, um, which again, both feed really well into this. Uh, I had a keen interest in biology before, uh, for my undergraduate, uh, which is why I pursued it in the first place.

So coming into a company like Coloplast where we deal with obviously healthcare needs into the healthcare needs, it's, it's worked really well.

Hannah: And you heard of Coloplast before you went for the role, had you heard of them at all? No? No,

Matt: no, the, it's worked out well. I joke with my parents quite a lot that I sort of fell into the perfect role because even before I did my Masters in Marketing, I had a, I wanted to get into, uh, either like a private healthcare hospital, like Nuffield Health or something like that as a, as a cardiac physiologist.

That's just what I wanted to be from, from my undergrad. Um, so I've always been interested in this sort of like sector, whether it's healthcare, pharma or, or whatever. So when it then came to applying for jobs and I saw obviously the role with, I did a little bit of sort of research before, uh, I went for the, went for the interviews and stuff.

It's just perfect. It's the exact industry I was looking to get into. Perfect sector. And yeah, it's been, it's been really good.

Hannah: And what would you say some of your biggest learnings have been since coming into this sort of industry, because obviously it's healthcare, but it's quite a, especially with the area you're working with, Heylo, it's quite a niche area, especially as a new product.

So have there been any surprises, anything? What have you been your standouts?

Matt: In terms of surprises, it's more. And this is my first, I've had obviously jobs in the past. It's my first career based role that where it's in a big global company. So in terms of just. operationally, it's, it's so fast paced coming into it.

It's fresh. Like everyone says, Oh, it takes six months to get used to it. Some people say, Oh, it takes a year before you're really like properly comfortable. And I haven't really had a chance to think about it. Like I said before, it's gone by so quickly, but that's my, my main learning is really, you've just got to keep up.

I mean, and it's, it's amazing because everything you've then got to do is has an impact, a genuine impact on people. So it's something you can really get behind and So I mean, you, you. Like my, my intro, I knew not much about stomas and I work obviously in Osterly. And then now I've been here for a little while.

It feels like it's all I think about, all I'm interested in. When I go to sleep thinking about Heylo and obviously what it will do. And then I wake up and I'm ready to go again and sort of delve deeper. But yeah, so from an operational side of things, it's just so fast paced. In terms of, The industry and the company, again, is that I've just learned so much in such a short period of time.

I've been able to sort of speak to so many different nurses, so many different sort of, uh, healthcare professionals. And then within the company as well, so many different people from different backgrounds, people coming from obviously pharma and then being nurses previously now working here and all this.

And even people within the company that actually have stomas learning from them. All of these people I've been able to sort of learn and take a piece of information from just sort of build. It's really, um, it's just incredible how, how much there is within the world of Coloplast and how much you've got to take on board.

But every step of the way, you're obviously supported and just continually learning new things that I come in every single day. I've only been here three months. Obviously, there's a lot more to learn, but every single day, there's something new. And it's, it's fascinating for someone like me who loves to just learn.

I, I love to read, I love to learn things. I've always had a keen interest in reading sort of research papers anyway. Just being able to continually learn and the role is something that's really been good about this sort of environment at Coloplast.

Hannah: And I'd say that sort of in the industry, within stomas in general, there's always learnings and nurses out there listening will echo that as well, that they are always learning as well.

There's It, I know it's like, sounds really cheesy, but it's like an every day is a school day sort of thing. And, you know, you even get surprised when you're living with a stoma, I mean. You know, from our conversations past, I had a stoma myself and every day was a learning day with your stoma as well, that no two days were the same, things constantly moving on.

And as we said before, you're coming in with Heylo, which is so, so exciting. And, you know, I am a massive advocate of Heylo and I can't wait. I always say it may well have changed my trajectory where I've gone. I don't know if I'd have gone down the reversal route had Heylo been around because. Leakages were my main thing and I just think, Oh my God, it's just so exciting.

We're so lucky at this moment to be with a company now that are, yeah, we're in this phase of launching such a. You know, a revolutionary product really. And I think the fact that you're such at the forefront of it, it must be so exciting as you say, your first career based role and what I'd start to have with a product like this coming out.

Matt: It's one of those things where before I came to Coloplast, obviously I had no idea what, what Heylo is. Uh, obviously what a stoma was. So from what I've learned just at the start about stomas, about leakage, about the worry of leakage, it's just been, it's everything that I focus on since the coming in. Cause I work primarily on, on Heylo.

And even from the start, the passion of the people that work here for Heylo, and obviously speak to people like you and others like Hannah Gagan and that, the reception and the excitement around Heylo is just constantly there. It's never, it's never wavered. It's always been there and it just keeps growing.

And now we're getting. Closer to obviously launching and being able to actually put on people we had, we had, uh, all of the Coloplast ambassadors for OC come in a month or two ago. And just, just the pure excitement of how much of a difference that would make for them, but obviously other Ostomates as well.

Being able to work on a project like this is, It's been, I'm so lucky. It's obviously the first, the world's first digital linkage notification system, which on its own will be incredible, but how it's going to change people's thought process around having a stoma and how, how you have conversations with us and how they say that if they had had it from the start, they would have a completely different experience of having a stoma.

And like you said, obviously the. You've spoken to me before about not going down the route of reversal and things like that and how much money you would have saved the NHS and hopefully that is what this will do. Hopefully this will have a significant impact on price usage and yeah, maybe even that sort of, that starting point of surgeries and, you know, It really can make a difference and it's so exciting to see where it's going to go.

Hannah: Now, I know you mentioned costs there. Now, as nurses, we hate to think about costs to the NHS, but it's something that more and more pressure is being put on with nurses, and that's probably something you've heard from nurses as well. They hate talking about the money side of things, but it's something that's being pushed onto us more.

As an NHS, it's something that we're being made to think about. which we possibly weren't, you know, 10 or so years ago. And I said, the cost savings of Heylo is quite phenomenal for me. It wouldn't have just been the fact, you know, when I have my stoma, I was excessively changing my products. So that would have been a money saver.

And also from the point of view that the surgeries I've had since with my reversal, I'm now on infliximab treatment, things like that. There would have been savings there had I not gone down the reversal route. So, In both aspects, you are looking at money savings, like you say, and I think that's probably one of the most impactful things, and the way you're probably, from your marketing side of things, having to approach things more with payers and things like that, and that's probably something that maybe the nurses haven't heard about so much.

So, from your marketing point of view, because I know Adrian's come from a nursing background as well, it's really helpful having you in it. It's almost like the Almost like the sensible head, I suppose in things there and getting things more from a sensible. Okay, let's back it up a bit perspective. So what's been your way of approaching things from a marketing perspective with Heylo?

Matt: One of the things that has been at the forefront of my role since I started was That sort of drug tariff narrative. And one of the first things I was introduced to when I joined was proving the use of Heylo in terms of the financial aspects. Cause in reality, that is an important part. It's not just for, for, for the ostomate is also to make sure that we can continually use it.

Like we don't want it to just be this gimmick. We want it to be a staple that can really make a difference, but also not then burden too much of the NHS. is. It does have struggles with funding and obviously you have to take that consideration, but coming in like, like you said earlier, coming with like a fresh sort of mindset, I've come into this without any prior knowledge of, of this sort of sector.

So to come in and really be able to take it with a fresh set of eyes is I think quite important. And I really think that it's a valuable position to have because. I can look at things without it. Yeah. Like you said, they should have a nurse background. And obviously I speak to nurses regularly and their first question is always how much is this going to cost?

They always are, especially because it's a digital product and you've got, you've got the transmitter and then you've got the sensor layers as well. And there's always that sort of, that, that question of how much is it going to cost me? How much is it going to cost the NHS? Because You know, as soon as someone mentions tech, they think money, but I really think that the way, the way that we get the responses from ostomates, the way we speak to our ambassadors and get their, their thoughts and feelings and the way they say.

That one of the main concerns is like changing products before they need to, a lot of them saying that they do, and that obviously has further implications for skin issues and, uh, obviously other things. And the way that Heylo will hopefully mitigate so many different things, obviously, extra product usage, and it's not even just product usage.

If you think about it from time spent, you know, utilizing NHS resources in terms of just, just time itself, going to see, you know, Nurse go to see their, their gp gonna see their stoma care nurse. That time will hopefully be reduced by using Heylo because they'll feel more confident in what they've got so that they can, you know, they'll feel more secure and not just their sort of mental state, but within every, their daily routine, they won't go and search for, for extra reassurance as much.

They will, they'll have that from Heylo. And then obviously there's, there's product usage because obviously reducing that is, is key. Having someone on the the correct product. still worrying about it. They can see that even if they're not leaking, they still change because they're worried about changing.

And that is an issue. That is an issue because it's obviously a higher sort of burden in terms of cost, but it's also, it's, it's time spent, like with stoma care nurses who really need to see someone might not be able to because someone who's really burdened by the worry of leakage might be Sort of taking up some of that time and it's really, you know, nurses, now that there there's more information about it and there's more sort of dialogue and we get, we've been able to get more feedback.

The positive like response is, is, is amazing to see. They're so excited for it because of those aspects. When you start to break down the time spent, the, the, obviously the more products you use, like they get. that their initial response is no, no, no, because it's going to cost me. But then when you break it down to how much easier, hopefully, that they will make their, their engagement with, with ostomates, it's, it's so exciting.

It's so exciting.

Hannah: Coloplast Professional offers a lot of educational material for specialists, nurses and healthcare professionals. Visit coloplastprofessional. co. uk to find out more. One thing I found is it's having worked within StomaCare and having been a stoma patient is Your relationship with your stoma nurse is so so important It really really is.

To have that empowerment to yourself as well and not almost be Reliant on them is also so important as well. And by having some of that Heylo, you are putting that control back on the ostomate a bit. It's however little or big the impact is from, it's handing back over that element of control. And in a world in general, I think where everything's a bit like haywire and you're not necessarily in control of things, to even gain back a little bit of empowerment and a bit of control is so, so important.

And to have, Just, I mean, there's so many things that you check your phone for now, isn't there? And it's not just a case of, this is a, say a gimmick. I mean, I'm sure people thought things like the smartwatches, you know, things like Fitbits, other watches are available, were a gimmick. Yeah. When they first came out, however many years ago, and now look, I'd say most people have one on their wrists now.

And yeah, at the time they were probably thought of as being a gimmick. You know, it's people are monitoring their health. Yeah. Viratech situation now, it's not a stand alone situation. It's almost been a case that stoma care has, in a way, been left behind compared to other areas. I think of cardiac diabetes, it's about time stoma care caught the pack up really.

So it, you know, it's not like you say that we're, we're going off on a Tangent in a way we're, we're doing what other areas of healthcare done and allowing estimates that same empowerment

Matt: It's that aspect of the sort of forgotten element. There's so much focus on like bags and plates and supporting products when The issue that, because Heylo isn't going to tackle that, Heylo doesn't stop leakage.

That the first, the first point of call is always to fix the product solution, make sure that they've got exactly what they need to sort that out. However, Heylo is about the burner leakage, when they're not leaking. The people who aren't leaking or maybe leak a little bit, but continually think about it.

And there's always the narrative, every single person that I've spoken to, every single ambassador, every I've been, I've been out with a territory managers and obviously spoke to nurses and spoke to us. And there is always that, that, um, previous sort of memory that their first serious leak, whether they were in hospital or, or when they sort of a new patient.

And there's always that the moment they leak then in the future, they, they're drawn back to this initial, um, experience, negative experience and being able with, with something that's already on your smartphone, who, who doesn't have a smartphone, being able to just get a discreet notification on your phone, wherever you are, it doesn't matter because.

Your phone will always be connected via Bluetooth. Just this discreet message to say, there might be something happening, you need to check. Being able to get that control back and being able to, to not have to relive that initial experience because they all have every, every person I've spoken to said that there is that initial experience.

It's really, that is, is terrified them. Some of the words that have been used, like, like terrified, they're terrified of it happening because it's, It's debilitating in a way that they can't stop thinking about it. Heylo will be absolutely essential for those people.

Hannah: I know you say I'm worried about the leakage.

It was, um, it was the ostomy life study 2019 showed that 92 percent of ostomates worry about leakage. 92%! That's That's huge.

Matt: And, and as well, stoma care nurses time is finite. They cannot focus on everything and the fact that getting the correct products in the correct bag is more important for stopping the leakage, they can't always focus on the mental aspect.

We already know that the NHS is underfunded in terms of the sort of the mental health side of things. Within the ostomy, ostomy world, this will take a significant strain off of the NHS because it will take away that. The need for extra extra appointments with some cases just for the mental burden, it takes away that massive forgotten element, because you might not be leaking, but you still, you still worry about it.

And like you said that the 92 percent worry about leakage, and there's I think it was 50 something percent. have leakages in the night or, and it just keeps getting worse. And all of these things can be taken away. All of this burden could be taken away from just having the feeling of control that at any point you just, you get notified before it's like happening before anything serious is happening.

You can just get that moment to just stop, think, reflect, change, and sort yourself. And it would just take away a huge, huge element that is, by no one's fault, just under, sort of, represented within this community.

Hannah: Because, like you say, Heylo doesn't stop leakage, but actually, for most of us, the leakage isn't the problem, it's that worrying about it in the first place.

It's almost when the leak happens, you're like, okay, well, right, that's happened. But that constant worry, worry, worry about it. That's the the horrible part and to be able to alleviate that in some way Oh, just massive and like you say about the sleep I think it's around 50 percent of people don't sleep at night and 50 percent of people with the stoma not sleeping at night.

That's To me any figures like over 50 percent where it's causing problems. It's it's It's awful. Over half your population of ostomates are worrying and not sleeping.

Matt: I think the sleep, I think the sleep element is so key to what Heylo is as well. You've got the worry element, but again, like I said, everyone has that, that initial experience of leakage, which, which, is a severe sort of mental burden, but they also, one thing is always mentioned is lack of sleep, setting alarms regularly, even if they don't need to, you know, just to check, just to see what what's going on.

That is always, always reflected back in what I hear that the lack of sleep. And for me, uh, I'm not an ostomate so I don't have to deal with that. But for me, if I, if I miss some sleep, I'm, I don't do well during like the next day, I don't function well. So imagine, and that's This is, this could be an every single night, this, this could be for years and years and years having a lack of sleep, not being able to function, but you don't recover in the same way as someone who is having good sleep.

So it's just, and to have it over 50%, it's just crazy that many people aren't sleeping so regularly just out of the fear that they're going to leak.

Hannah: I say you don't function properly when you've not slept. I mean, I think we had this conversation the other week in the office, didn't we? That, you know, Matt and I both decided that we both need our eight hours sleep.

And I actually said to you, didn't I, that I get actually get grumpy the night before. If I know I'm not going to sleep my eight hours that night, I pre grump about it. And to think that there are people out there that are having that every single night and then probably trying to go to work, function with a family life, things like that on top of that.

I'd say it's, it's that massive thing of these overall impacts that Heylo is going to have. And I'd say it's just so, so exciting.

Matt: I really, I think that the benefits of Heylo are going to, I think they're going to come through in ways and that we're really focusing on making sure this is on the right people, because we want this to be, We want this to be a really effective solution.

Um, and with the, with this sleep, you've got, you mentioned obviously trying to sort of function normally and have that normal life, but think, think about how that, that lack of sleep and that, that worry affects on not just the time slip of the stoma care nurse and that's not just the product usage, but your relationship with partners, not sleeping in the same bed or, or communication breakdown, relationship breakdown, just because of stress and anxiety and worry, because that, that, that has an effect on you.

People who aren't ostomates that but it's just an added extra burden. It can't be It can't be easy to live a life where you're constantly worried about something. And one of the best analogies I've heard since I started, and it was probably in the first week that I started, I heard this and it was, and it, it sort of perfectly summed it up was the period analogy, obviously not something I've ever experienced, but that first period experience where maybe you're saying school or whatever it is, where it's just, it's mortifying.

But imagine having that every single day. Not just a week of the month. It's every single day. You've just got that fear, that fear, and it's just constantly, it's just always on your mind and that will significantly impact the way that you, you function, the way you communicate with people. And hopefully Heylo will be able to take away a massive part of that and give people back their normal lives because all of these little behaviors that they don't even notice that are part of their daily routine now, whether it is the changing, whether it is sort of keeping themselves away from, from family members or partners or friends and, and, you know, It will give them that, that feeling of, of normality back and really hopefully give them that sense of control.

Hannah: And what a lovely word to finish on there, control. And I think that's what it is. It's about putting you back in control. Thank you so much for joining me, Matt. It's been great to hear. As I said, you're looking at the world of stoma care with a fresh perspective, having never been around stoma, stoma care.

And I think hearing your life and the passion you've got for it now. It's so fantastic to hear the passion you've gained in just three months for stomas and stoma care. It's amazing. Amazing.

Matt: No, no, thank you for having me, Hannah. It's been wonderful. It's been excellent.

Hannah: Alright, and to everyone listening, thank you very much and we'll see you next time.

Thank you for listening. To see more of the wide variety of education we offer, please visit coloplastprofessional. co. uk. See you next time.

Narrator: Stoma and Continence Conversations is a Vibrant Sound Media production for Coloplast Professional.