1 00:00:50,819 --> 00:00:53,869 JAMES GRASBY : Hello and welcome to a new series of the National 2 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,799 Trust podcast. I'm James Grasby, a curator here at the National 3 00:00:57,810 --> 00:01:01,779 Trust. In our first episode of the series, we will be exploring 4 00:01:01,790 --> 00:01:05,800 the lives of a mysterious Gang from the 1930s who had the whole 5 00:01:05,809 --> 00:01:09,959 nation eagerly following their exploits. However, as we'll soon 6 00:01:09,970 --> 00:01:13,410 discover there was something a little out of the ordinary about 7 00:01:13,419 --> 00:01:14,669 these Gang members. 8 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:26,019 It's the afternoon of July the 17th, 1939 at Gray's Hill Hall 9 00:01:26,029 --> 00:01:29,419 in London and the annual General meeting of the National Trust is 10 00:01:29,430 --> 00:01:33,790 being held, members and representatives gather over tea 11 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,690 and biscuits to approve the accounts for the past financial 12 00:01:37,699 --> 00:01:38,129 year. 13 00:01:38,879 --> 00:01:43,220 However, today there is a little tension in the air with the 14 00:01:43,230 --> 00:01:50,790 spectre of war with Germany looming unbeknown to the people 15 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,849 inside the building, outside on the street, three masked 16 00:01:54,860 --> 00:01:59,353 individuals step out of a taxi cab clutching a metal object. [ 17 00:01:59,353 --> 00:02:01,580 MASKED INDIVIDUAL: Actor] Look, there's the door. Let's Go. 18 00:02:02,209 --> 00:02:04,529 JAMES GRASBY : At this point, there is a terrible hullabaloo 19 00:02:04,540 --> 00:02:07,730 as one of the masked intruders hurtles towards country house 20 00:02:07,739 --> 00:02:11,259 expert James Lees-Milne and thrusts the suspicious looking 21 00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:15,139 object into his hands and then vanishes as swiftly as they 22 00:02:15,149 --> 00:02:15,710 arrive. 23 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,600 Milne hurriedly shoves the offending item into the hands of 24 00:02:19,610 --> 00:02:24,080 the trust secretary Donald Macleod Matheson, who then in a 25 00:02:24,089 --> 00:02:26,970 swift exchange pushes it into the hands of the chairman, Lord 26 00:02:26,979 --> 00:02:27,519 Lawrence Zetland [ 27 00:02:27,519 --> 00:02:30,746 LAWRENCE DUNDAS, 2ND MARQUESS .: Actor] What is this? [ 28 00:02:30,746 --> 00:02:34,570 JAMES LEES-MILNE: Actor] It looks like a metal pineapple. 29 00:02:34,679 --> 00:02:36,759 There's a label on it. What does it say? 30 00:02:38,419 --> 00:02:41,279 LAWRENCE DUNDAS, 2ND MARQUESS .: Open this fruit and you will 31 00:02:41,289 --> 00:02:46,110 find a kernel greatly to your mind. 32 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:56,740 Well, would you believe a £100 note? I do declare those rascals 33 00:02:56,750 --> 00:02:59,539 Ferguson's Gang have been at it again. 34 00:02:59,550 --> 00:03:04,610 JAMES LEES-MILNE: I say £100. How much have they donated so 35 00:03:04,619 --> 00:03:05,630 far, Matheson? 36 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:10,139 LAWRENCE DUNDAS, 2ND MARQUESS .: I think this latest gift makes 37 00:03:10,149 --> 00:03:16,619 it £2100. Bravo Ferguson's Gang. 38 00:03:19,929 --> 00:03:23,119 JAMES GRASBY : In the 1930s, a secretive and subversive group 39 00:03:23,130 --> 00:03:27,750 known as Ferguson's Gang made a splash in UK society. Unlike the 40 00:03:27,759 --> 00:03:31,020 well known criminal gangs of the era. The motivations and 41 00:03:31,029 --> 00:03:35,369 identities of this group are not at all what you'd expect far 42 00:03:35,380 --> 00:03:39,410 from engaging in theft and extortion. Ferguson's Gang were 43 00:03:39,419 --> 00:03:42,820 anonymous mask wearing activists who gave donations to 44 00:03:42,830 --> 00:03:46,050 conservation causes in fun and entertaining ways. 45 00:03:46,899 --> 00:03:50,610 What sets this group apart even more was that it was formed 46 00:03:50,619 --> 00:03:51,649 entirely of women. 47 00:03:52,759 --> 00:03:55,649 And we're going to retrace the gang's steps to uncover the 48 00:03:55,660 --> 00:03:59,820 motivations behind these masked marauders and explore the legacy 49 00:03:59,830 --> 00:04:00,660 left behind. 50 00:04:04,610 --> 00:04:07,190 I'm not far from Chippenham railway station and I've come 51 00:04:07,199 --> 00:04:10,360 down onto a very modern industrial state and in front of 52 00:04:10,369 --> 00:04:13,860 me is an enormous building, a temple to archives, the 53 00:04:13,869 --> 00:04:16,700 Wiltshire And Swindon History Centre. And I'm about to step 54 00:04:16,709 --> 00:04:20,429 inside and meet Daz Beatson from the National Trust Archive 55 00:04:20,489 --> 00:04:24,390 Department who has arranged for me to have access to some very 56 00:04:24,399 --> 00:04:25,549 exciting objects. 57 00:04:28,329 --> 00:04:30,070 DAZ BEATSON: Hi, James. Come on through. 58 00:04:31,570 --> 00:04:33,850 JAMES GRASBY : Daz, I'm very pleased to meet you and I 59 00:04:33,859 --> 00:04:35,149 couldn't be more thrilled to be here. 60 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,209 Now, Daz in front of us, buff colored box doesn't look very 61 00:04:40,220 --> 00:04:43,399 promising to me, but what goodies have you got inside 62 00:04:43,410 --> 00:04:43,859 here? 63 00:04:43,869 --> 00:04:47,410 DAZ BEATSON: This is the first volume of Ferguson Gang's 64 00:04:47,420 --> 00:04:48,149 minutes. 65 00:04:48,450 --> 00:04:50,500 JAMES GRASBY : There's a book in front of me, a little sort of 66 00:04:50,510 --> 00:04:54,450 folio with a beautiful impression of a holly leaf I 67 00:04:54,459 --> 00:04:55,459 would guess on the front. 68 00:04:55,459 --> 00:04:57,010 DAZ BEATSON: They referred to it as The Boo. 69 00:04:57,019 --> 00:04:57,839 JAMES GRASBY : The Boo! 70 00:04:57,850 --> 00:04:58,709 DAZ BEATSON: The Boo. 71 00:04:58,950 --> 00:05:02,369 Apparently as legend goes, they actually ran out of space on the 72 00:05:02,380 --> 00:05:05,920 paper. So the K wasn't added to the end of the word. And from 73 00:05:05,929 --> 00:05:08,570 there on in, they were referred to as The Boo. 74 00:05:09,059 --> 00:05:10,140 JAMES GRASBY : Oh, that's sweet, Isn't it 75 00:05:10,149 --> 00:05:14,010 DAZ BEATSON: Totally unassuming on the outside. But inside a 76 00:05:14,649 --> 00:05:19,660 wonderful, wonderful collection of all of the Ferguson Gang 77 00:05:19,670 --> 00:05:23,690 memorabilia, their minutes, their adventures. 78 00:05:24,649 --> 00:05:26,859 JAMES GRASBY : And you opened it up on the first page and there's 79 00:05:26,869 --> 00:05:30,869 a wonderful inscription in beautiful handwriting. This 80 00:05:31,019 --> 00:05:35,559 minute book volume, one of Ferguson's Gang was handed to 81 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:40,470 the Secretary of the National Trust on the 27th of May 1967 at 82 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,269 a dinner given at Shalford Mill to celebrate the 40th 83 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,989 anniversary. Ferguson's Gang isn't that lovely? 84 00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:49,010 DAZ BEATSON: So as well as the first volume, there is actually 85 00:05:49,019 --> 00:05:52,589 a second volume. This was actually found on a market stall 86 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,779 in London wrapped in a piece of cloth and a member of the public 87 00:05:56,790 --> 00:05:59,899 purchased it and then eventually worked out what it was and 88 00:05:59,910 --> 00:06:00,779 offered it to us. 89 00:06:00,790 --> 00:06:02,739 JAMES GRASBY : What a wonderful story. 90 00:06:02,980 --> 00:06:05,100 DAZ BEATSON: The piece of cloth it was wrapped in is also 91 00:06:05,109 --> 00:06:09,485 something else to see. 92 00:06:09,485 --> 00:06:12,510 JAMES GRASBY : Daz what you've unraveled I was not expecting. 93 00:06:12,869 --> 00:06:15,910 It's a textile made up of a series of panels that was about 94 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,079 six inches square and each of these squares has got a 95 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,220 individual embroidery, a motto, a fabulous picture. What am I 96 00:06:23,230 --> 00:06:23,980 looking at? 97 00:06:23,989 --> 00:06:27,079 DAZ BEATSON: This is the Barbituric Robe. So this is what 98 00:06:27,089 --> 00:06:30,630 the gang used in their ceremonies. And you might have 99 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,480 noticed looking through the minute book that there is 100 00:06:32,489 --> 00:06:35,059 actually a picture of one of the gang wearing it. 101 00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:36,380 JAMES GRASBY : Some of these panels have got a sort of 102 00:06:36,390 --> 00:06:39,609 medieval feel. Others are much more modern. This is a very 103 00:06:39,619 --> 00:06:43,059 graphic device really here of a looks like a Trilithon, two 104 00:06:43,070 --> 00:06:46,339 standing stones. That looks to me to be Stonehenge. 105 00:06:46,589 --> 00:06:48,980 DAZ BEATSON: Yeah, so Stonehenge is very important to the Gang 106 00:06:48,989 --> 00:06:52,019 and an early catalyst for their coming together. And as you'll 107 00:06:52,029 --> 00:06:55,380 see from the panel just below that, they believe that England 108 00:06:55,390 --> 00:06:58,190 was Stonehenge and not Whitehall. 109 00:07:00,529 --> 00:07:04,010 JAMES GRASBY : Let's wind back the clock to the summer of 1927 110 00:07:04,019 --> 00:07:07,049 where we join four young women in their twenties, sitting on 111 00:07:07,059 --> 00:07:10,815 the banks of the river Thames in Tothill Fields. [ 112 00:07:10,815 --> 00:07:14,923 1ST FEMALE: Actor} What a splendid spot for a picnic [ 113 00:07:14,923 --> 00:07:18,760 2ND FEMALE : Actor] Isn't it just. Now do be a good egg and 114 00:07:18,769 --> 00:07:21,600 pass over one of those delicious looking tarts. 115 00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:24,459 JAMES GRASBY : Also picnicking with them today, is dear friend, 116 00:07:24,470 --> 00:07:27,570 Professor George Macauley Trevelyan, who's currently a 117 00:07:27,579 --> 00:07:30,760 year into his role at the National Trust for places of 118 00:07:30,769 --> 00:07:32,100 historic interest. [ 119 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:34,671 3RD FEMALE: Actor] So how's the job going, George? [ 120 00:07:34,671 --> 00:07:37,739 G. M. TREVELYAN: Actor] It's going rather well actually. Now, 121 00:07:38,179 --> 00:07:41,519 are you ladies aware of the latest campaign from the 122 00:07:41,529 --> 00:07:45,266 National Trust to raise funds for Stonehenge? [ 123 00:07:45,266 --> 00:07:47,250 1ST FEMALE: Actor] Is that the national appeal that the Prime 124 00:07:47,260 --> 00:07:48,896 Minister is rallying behind? [ 125 00:07:48,896 --> 00:07:53,880 G. M. TREVELYAN: Actor] Yes, they want to raise £35,000 to 126 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:57,799 acquire the surrounding land. As presently, there's an aerodrome 127 00:07:57,809 --> 00:08:00,799 and some farm buildings blotting the landscape. 128 00:08:01,089 --> 00:08:03,380 JAMES GRASBY : The 1920s was a time when the English 129 00:08:03,390 --> 00:08:06,670 countryside faced significant threat from developers as no 130 00:08:06,679 --> 00:08:09,709 formal planning permission was required. And houses and 131 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,750 factories were being built across the land in their 132 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:12,429 swathes. 133 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:16,880 Reflecting the strong sentiments of many, a passionate young man 134 00:08:16,890 --> 00:08:20,799 called Clough Williams Ellis was about to write a new book titled 135 00:08:20,809 --> 00:08:24,920 England and the Octopus. A polemic on England's unregulated 136 00:08:24,929 --> 00:08:26,079 urban sprawl. 137 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,920 Maybe just maybe these young picnickers could help thwart 138 00:08:29,929 --> 00:08:33,539 London that mighty octopus and prevent it from extending its 139 00:08:33,549 --> 00:08:35,963 tentacles into the English countryside. [ 140 00:08:35,963 --> 00:08:38,838 4TH FEMALE: Actor] Someone needs to stop these property 141 00:08:38,848 --> 00:08:41,172 developers from spoiling the landscape. [ 142 00:08:41,172 --> 00:08:43,548 2ND FEMALE : Actor] Yes. Can we do anything to help? [ 143 00:08:43,548 --> 00:08:48,348 1ST FEMALE: Actor] We could form a gang and raise funds to help 144 00:08:48,359 --> 00:08:49,922 save the British countryside? [ 145 00:08:49,922 --> 00:08:52,718 G. M. TREVELYAN: Actor] Surely you don't mean a criminal gang 146 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,742 with threats, extortion and gangster name. [ 147 00:08:56,742 --> 00:08:59,818 4TH FEMALE: Actor] Absolutely not! We need to stay on the 148 00:08:59,828 --> 00:09:04,188 right side of the law, but we could use pseudonyms. [ 149 00:09:04,188 --> 00:09:07,669 1ST FEMALE: Actor] In that case, I am innocent and shall go by 150 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,373 the name Bill Stickers. [ 151 00:09:09,373 --> 00:09:12,070 2ND FEMALE : Actor] I would like to be known as Sister Agatha 152 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,484 after that day at London Zoo when I dressed up as a nun. [ 153 00:09:15,484 --> 00:09:18,510 4TH FEMALE: Actor] I shall go by the name of Red Biddy; I am a 154 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,456 practicing communist after all. [ 155 00:09:20,456 --> 00:09:23,155 3RD FEMALE: Actor] I just want to be known as Kate O'Brien the 156 00:09:23,155 --> 00:09:23,437 Nark. [ 157 00:09:23,437 --> 00:09:27,155 1ST FEMALE: Actor] Henceforth from this very day, we shall be 158 00:09:27,164 --> 00:09:30,804 known as Ferguson's Gang and must solemnly pledge to 159 00:09:30,815 --> 00:09:36,515 safeguard our anonymity until the end of our days. [ 160 00:09:36,515 --> 00:09:47,260 ALL CAST: Actor] To Fergusons Gang! 161 00:09:47,260 --> 00:09:49,179 DAZ BEATSON: We don't know that they actually contributed 162 00:09:49,190 --> 00:09:52,000 directly to the Stonehenge appeal. But if you look back 163 00:09:52,010 --> 00:09:55,590 again into the minute Boo, you'll see a receipt there for 164 00:09:55,599 --> 00:09:59,359 their first ever donation to the National Trust for five pounds. 165 00:09:59,369 --> 00:10:02,650 JAMES GRASBY : That is wonderful. And on the opposite 166 00:10:02,659 --> 00:10:06,320 page is the minutes of the first meeting of the Ferguson's Gang. 167 00:10:06,340 --> 00:10:09,010 And at the top it says Ferguson's Gang, Shalford Old 168 00:10:09,020 --> 00:10:13,239 Mill. I'm gonna head off and see it now. Daz, thank you It's been 169 00:10:13,250 --> 00:10:13,969 wonderful. 170 00:10:13,979 --> 00:10:15,169 DAZ BEATSON: It's been an absolute pleasure. 171 00:10:17,669 --> 00:10:20,460 JAMES GRASBY : The Gang yearned for a project they could truly 172 00:10:20,469 --> 00:10:24,270 sink their teeth into and the perfect opportunity arose when 173 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,750 Bill Stickers and Sister Agatha found themselves on a bus to 174 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,890 Guildford in September 1931 en route to visiting their dear 175 00:10:31,900 --> 00:10:33,729 friend Arthur Godwin Austin. 176 00:10:36,210 --> 00:10:40,190 During this journey, an old water mill caught their eyes. 177 00:10:40,190 --> 00:10:43,119 And in a twist of fate, the mill had been in Arthur's family for 178 00:10:43,130 --> 00:10:47,590 generations. However, plans were afoot to dismantle it. 179 00:10:47,590 --> 00:10:51,700 In a heartfelt appeal over tea. The women persuaded Arthur to 180 00:10:51,710 --> 00:10:53,450 let them rescue the mill. 181 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,450 However, to secure it and fund repairs, the Gang would need to 182 00:10:57,460 --> 00:11:01,979 raise £500. And so Shalford Mill would become the Gang's 183 00:11:01,989 --> 00:11:05,450 headquarters, a place to hide away and plan their stunts in 184 00:11:05,460 --> 00:11:09,359 secret and hold strange initiation rituals. 185 00:11:12,830 --> 00:11:14,799 That was a very nice drive actually from the Wiltshire 186 00:11:14,809 --> 00:11:15,750 History Centre at Chippenham. 187 00:11:16,739 --> 00:11:20,460 And I'm just approaching what I think is Shalford Mill down a 188 00:11:20,469 --> 00:11:23,929 little side street. We come through pretty Guildford and 189 00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:28,020 this is a magnificent building. I mean, three stories, brick 190 00:11:28,030 --> 00:11:32,070 built, ground floor, probably timber framed above, tile hung. 191 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,869 I know that it's currently being worked on so there's no public 192 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:36,280 access. 193 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,859 And I'm hoping to meet Polly Bagnall, who's the author of the 194 00:11:39,869 --> 00:11:42,710 book, The Remarkable Story of the National Trust Gangsters, 195 00:11:43,099 --> 00:11:45,650 and has a very close connection to the Gang. 196 00:11:45,659 --> 00:11:49,304 Now, look, if I go this way, through this little gate. 197 00:11:49,304 --> 00:11:49,630 POLLY BAGNALL: Hello 198 00:11:49,630 --> 00:11:50,869 JAMES GRASBY : You must be Polly 199 00:11:50,969 --> 00:11:51,530 POLLY BAGNALL: Do come on in. 200 00:11:52,380 --> 00:11:55,669 JAMES GRASBY : Through the entrance. Oh, the rushing of the 201 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,780 water and in front of us is an undershot water wheel. 202 00:11:59,820 --> 00:12:03,599 So the water is running under our feet at quite a pace. 203 00:12:03,609 --> 00:12:04,359 POLLY BAGNALL: It is. 204 00:12:04,510 --> 00:12:07,299 JAMES GRASBY : It's got the most wonderful smell. Beyond this 205 00:12:07,309 --> 00:12:10,140 brick wall is the water wheel that we've just passed in front 206 00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:13,130 of us is what looks like an oak shaft. I mean, it's the size of 207 00:12:13,140 --> 00:12:18,099 a large tree. Its enormous cogs and spur wheels and gears. 208 00:12:18,130 --> 00:12:20,229 POLLY BAGNALL: Mind your head, we're going to go up through the 209 00:12:20,239 --> 00:12:22,619 trap door here on the first floor, 210 00:12:26,469 --> 00:12:28,659 JAMES GRASBY : Polly, I get the sense that, you know, this place 211 00:12:28,669 --> 00:12:29,580 pretty well. 212 00:12:29,619 --> 00:12:33,440 POLLY BAGNALL: Well, yes, you're absolutely right. I grew up 213 00:12:33,450 --> 00:12:38,219 here. All my childhood was spent living at Shalford Mill and my 214 00:12:38,229 --> 00:12:44,020 mother who died last year, lived here till 97 years of age. So my 215 00:12:44,030 --> 00:12:47,580 family have been linked to the mill since 1932. 216 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,729 JAMES GRASBY : Polly, I'm longing to hear about your 217 00:12:49,739 --> 00:12:52,020 special connection with Ferguson's Gang. 218 00:12:52,619 --> 00:12:56,299 POLLY BAGNALL: My connection is my grandfather, John Mcgregor. 219 00:12:56,309 --> 00:13:03,010 He was conservation architect and he was contacted in about 220 00:13:03,020 --> 00:13:07,719 the early 1930s by the National Trust and asked if he would look 221 00:13:07,729 --> 00:13:09,190 at this old water mill. 222 00:13:09,340 --> 00:13:14,039 Ferguson's Gang wanted to take on the mill and give it with 223 00:13:14,049 --> 00:13:18,419 money to repair it to the National Trust. And he was super 224 00:13:18,429 --> 00:13:23,390 enthused. They all got on really well and they gave him the title 225 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,409 The Artichoke and he went on to repair several other buildings 226 00:13:28,419 --> 00:13:29,440 that they took on. 227 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,820 JAMES GRASBY : And Polly tell me what these Gang members were 228 00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:32,359 like. 229 00:13:32,450 --> 00:13:36,380 POLLY BAGNALL: Well, the head of the Gang was a woman called Bill 230 00:13:36,390 --> 00:13:40,020 Stickers. Well, that was her Gang name. Her name was Peggy 231 00:13:40,030 --> 00:13:45,469 Pollard and she was superbly bright, went to Cambridge and 232 00:13:45,479 --> 00:13:48,770 she was the first woman to get a double first. I mean, she wasn't 233 00:13:48,780 --> 00:13:52,049 actually awarded her degree until the fifties because women 234 00:13:52,059 --> 00:13:55,289 weren't allowed to have degrees. When when she moved to London, 235 00:13:55,299 --> 00:13:59,590 after Cambridge, she was introduced to Brynnie. 236 00:14:00,070 --> 00:14:04,539 Brynnie was to be Sister Agatha in the gang. So they were the 237 00:14:04,549 --> 00:14:07,530 first two founding members of the gang and then several others 238 00:14:07,539 --> 00:14:08,130 joined. 239 00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:11,429 There was Red Biddy, who was Rachel Pinney. She came from a 240 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:16,479 very wealthy family. And probably the most conventional 241 00:14:16,489 --> 00:14:19,669 was Joy Gaze, who was called Kate O'Brien the Nark. 242 00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:24,320 Now the person I really like is The Bloody Beer Shop, His 243 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:29,739 Bludiness or His B. She was the Gang spiritual leader. She 244 00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:36,760 invented these rituals and she had a staff, she smoked a pipe 245 00:14:36,770 --> 00:14:39,799 and she was all together an incredible woman. 246 00:14:40,090 --> 00:14:44,039 SPK_12: But according to my grandparents, they were full of 247 00:14:44,049 --> 00:14:49,640 fun. They were really interested in the history of England. Going 248 00:14:49,650 --> 00:14:53,780 back to Pagan times, they weren't really particularly 249 00:14:53,799 --> 00:15:00,309 interested in modern life. And for them taking on this mill was 250 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:01,940 an exciting adventure. 251 00:15:02,330 --> 00:15:02,520 JAMES GRASBY : Fabulous. 252 00:15:03,419 --> 00:15:09,169 POLLY BAGNALL: Ok, James. So this is very important this 253 00:15:09,429 --> 00:15:14,210 millstone and the piece of wood around it, this thing comes off 254 00:15:14,219 --> 00:15:18,989 and you can sit five women fairly comfortably in a circle 255 00:15:19,619 --> 00:15:22,989 over the millstone. And this is where they had their meetings. 256 00:15:23,219 --> 00:15:26,859 If you look at this, this is a copy of The Boo, their minute 257 00:15:26,869 --> 00:15:27,400 book. 258 00:15:27,989 --> 00:15:31,619 JAMES GRASBY : March the 26th, 1932. 1st meeting. Present - 259 00:15:31,619 --> 00:15:34,570 Ferguson, Sister Agatha. What's that? 260 00:15:34,580 --> 00:15:37,719 POLLY BAGNALL: The Bloody Beer Shop, Bill Stickers, Kate 261 00:15:37,729 --> 00:15:42,522 O'Brien TN. That means the Nark and Red Biddy. [ 262 00:15:42,522 --> 00:15:46,219 BILL STICKERS: Actor] Right. Right. Right. Right. Oh, chaps. 263 00:15:46,229 --> 00:15:47,219 Settle down, settle down. 264 00:15:47,659 --> 00:15:53,340 Welcome to the first meeting of Ferguson's Gang to start off, I 265 00:15:53,349 --> 00:15:58,900 wish to pass a resolution that England is Stonehenge and not 266 00:15:58,909 --> 00:15:59,894 Whitehall [ 267 00:15:59,894 --> 00:16:03,460 ALL CAST: Actor] Here, here. England is Stonehenge and not 268 00:16:03,469 --> 00:16:04,824 Whitehall. [ 269 00:16:04,824 --> 00:16:08,020 RED BIDDY: Actor] Let's sit down around the grindstone, make some 270 00:16:08,030 --> 00:16:11,844 plans and draw up our constitution. [ 271 00:16:11,844 --> 00:16:16,890 BILL STICKERS: Actor] I'll start rule number one. Ferguson's Gang 272 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:19,892 shall be known as Ferguson's Gang. [ 273 00:16:19,892 --> 00:16:23,390 RED BIDDY: Actor] Rule number two, the object of the Gang 274 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,510 shall be to follow the precepts of Ferguson in destroying and 275 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,339 frustrating the octopus. [ 276 00:16:28,339 --> 00:16:32,549 SISTER AGATHA: Actor] Rule three, the Gang shall consist of 277 00:16:32,590 --> 00:16:33,010 no more. 278 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,760 JAMES GRASBY : So here they all were sitting on this bench where 279 00:16:40,770 --> 00:16:41,250 we are now. 280 00:16:41,260 --> 00:16:44,000 POLLY BAGNALL: Yes, and you haven't heard how come I said 281 00:16:44,010 --> 00:16:49,950 five women and yet that's six, including Ferguson. Who was 282 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:50,650 Ferguson? 283 00:16:50,659 --> 00:16:51,539 JAMES GRASBY : Who was Ferguson? 284 00:16:51,549 --> 00:16:53,020 POLLY BAGNALL: Well, follow me 285 00:16:53,109 --> 00:16:53,900 JAMES GRASBY : Lead the way. 286 00:16:53,900 --> 00:17:01,429 Polly, we have come to what is really a small, little intimate 287 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,909 bedroom, isn't it? It looks like a little sitting room. 288 00:17:04,239 --> 00:17:07,239 POLLY BAGNALL: This is what we call the gangs room. What you've 289 00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:10,829 got here is you've got some old bunk beds, just two beds. Now, 290 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:14,660 there were five of them. So they were quite cozy when they slept 291 00:17:14,670 --> 00:17:15,459 the night here. 292 00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:18,069 JAMES GRASBY : Little primus stove for cooking on, bunk beds 293 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:21,109 to sleep in, a table laid for tea with a pretty embroidered 294 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:26,428 tablecloth. And look at this, a display case full of goodies. 295 00:17:27,068 --> 00:17:29,558 POLLY BAGNALL: Come and have a look. Here is Ferguson. 296 00:17:29,568 --> 00:17:30,474 JAMES GRASBY : Ferguson? 297 00:17:30,474 --> 00:17:35,409 POLLY BAGNALL: It's a red stamp that says Ferguson. That is all 298 00:17:35,418 --> 00:17:37,448 we know of Ferguson at their meeting. 299 00:17:37,678 --> 00:17:40,500 JAMES GRASBY : How mysterious. Is that a mask? 300 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:44,890 POLLY BAGNALL: That Is the mask. They delivered money to the 301 00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:49,329 National Trust in masks and capes, which is why a lot of 302 00:17:49,339 --> 00:17:50,849 people thought they were a group of men. 303 00:17:51,219 --> 00:17:54,290 JAMES GRASBY : But why were they so eager to obscure their 304 00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:55,050 identity? 305 00:17:55,510 --> 00:18:00,699 SPK_12: Well, partly they had sort of normal lives outside, 306 00:18:00,969 --> 00:18:05,189 for example, Joy. She worked in a girls school and she had to 307 00:18:05,199 --> 00:18:08,140 probably be quite sort of sensible. And this is something 308 00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:12,339 that Brynie told my mother that it was just fun. 309 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:14,520 JAMES GRASBY : Polly in front of me. You've got some cuttings 310 00:18:14,530 --> 00:18:16,939 taken from newspapers from the 1930s and the headings are 311 00:18:16,949 --> 00:18:20,839 wonderful. Ferguson's Gang Again £200 for the National Trust. 312 00:18:21,260 --> 00:18:25,369 What about Masked Woman Gives £500to the National Trust. 313 00:18:25,369 --> 00:18:29,329 Mystery Band With Terrible Names Complete Endowment On Beauty 314 00:18:29,339 --> 00:18:30,030 Spot. 315 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:31,689 This is wonderful stuff. 316 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:37,050 Polly, give me a sense of where the money came from. 317 00:18:37,329 --> 00:18:42,479 SPK_12: They didn't have money, but Bill's mother, Black Mary, 318 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:47,010 she actually did donate quite a bit of money to the Gang. But 319 00:18:47,439 --> 00:18:52,239 what was really clever was that they had subscribing members. So 320 00:18:52,250 --> 00:18:57,459 anyone, you me could join the Gang choose our Gang name, but 321 00:18:57,469 --> 00:19:01,939 we had to pay two and six every year for our membership. 322 00:19:01,949 --> 00:19:04,880 POLLY BAGNALL: And that's how they filled their coffers. And 323 00:19:04,890 --> 00:19:10,560 they filled their money tins, saved it, took it in bags, 324 00:19:10,569 --> 00:19:15,300 filled it up- the swag. Drove across London 100 miles an hour 325 00:19:15,310 --> 00:19:19,300 arrived at the office of the National Trust barged their way 326 00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:24,989 through reception there, another £100 towards the repair of a 327 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,410 National Trust property. 328 00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:27,079 JAMES GRASBY : Fabulous. 329 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,199 So Shalford Mill was the first property. Where did they go from 330 00:19:31,209 --> 00:19:31,599 here? 331 00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:35,050 POLLY BAGNALL: Well, Newton Old Town Hall on the Isle Of White 332 00:19:35,189 --> 00:19:38,819 is a beautiful little Georgian building that had been 333 00:19:38,829 --> 00:19:42,819 abandoned. It was covered in ivy and it was just going to turn 334 00:19:42,829 --> 00:19:46,489 back into the fields around it. So, Bill and the rest of the 335 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,939 girls made their way to this little town hall on the edge of 336 00:19:50,949 --> 00:19:54,020 the island and they said, yeah, let's take that on. 337 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,219 SPK_12: So my grandfather, the Artichoke came down and he 338 00:19:59,229 --> 00:20:03,000 oversaw the repairs. And so that was the second building and then 339 00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:07,939 they discovered some old cottages in Oxfordshire, priory 340 00:20:07,949 --> 00:20:12,189 cottages, which had been an old abbey. But in addition to these 341 00:20:12,199 --> 00:20:16,650 three buildings through the enthusiasm of Bill managed to 342 00:20:16,660 --> 00:20:20,359 get a lot of landowners she knew in Cornwall to give tracks of 343 00:20:20,369 --> 00:20:22,619 coastline to the National Trust. 344 00:20:24,109 --> 00:20:27,770 POLLY BAGNALL: So James, this is where the women slept, where 345 00:20:27,780 --> 00:20:31,729 they ate, where they plan their next project. But I'm going to 346 00:20:31,739 --> 00:20:34,010 go and show you something else. Would you like to come and see 347 00:20:34,020 --> 00:20:35,760 the chamber of horrors? 348 00:20:35,890 --> 00:20:37,589 JAMES GRASBY : The chamber of horrors? Polly? 349 00:20:37,949 --> 00:20:38,739 POLLY BAGNALL: Yes. 350 00:20:39,150 --> 00:20:39,969 JAMES GRASBY : Yes, I would. 351 00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:41,400 POLLY BAGNALL: Ok. Follow me 352 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:41,839 JAMES GRASBY : Lead the way. 353 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:48,219 POLLY BAGNALL: Be careful. We're going up ladders. 354 00:20:48,219 --> 00:20:52,969 Up here was where they had their midnight rituals. Now, 355 00:20:52,979 --> 00:20:56,839 particularly it was around summer solstice. So I've got a 356 00:20:56,849 --> 00:20:59,510 bit from The Boo here. Would you like me to read it? 357 00:20:59,510 --> 00:21:00,219 JAMES GRASBY : I would love to hear it 358 00:21:00,219 --> 00:21:06,619 POLLY BAGNALL: Ok. 2:55 a. m. July the 1st, 1934. On the 359 00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:10,699 stroke of midnight, the right bloody, the Lord Beer Shop, Bill 360 00:21:10,709 --> 00:21:14,800 Stickers and Sister Agatha assembled with their weapons in 361 00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:17,500 a chamber of horrors. 362 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:21,530 Solemnly swore the following oath with their hands upon the 363 00:21:21,540 --> 00:21:26,319 Oly Croc. So the oly croc was the mill shaft. 364 00:21:26,329 --> 00:21:31,939 And they're saying, I swear that at whatever cost I for one will 365 00:21:31,949 --> 00:21:36,969 uphold Ferguson's Gang. At two o'clock Ag and Bill went out 366 00:21:36,979 --> 00:21:39,890 into the moonlight and pinched milk from the farm to make 367 00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:43,574 coffee. Then lighting the Etruscan lamb, that's their old 368 00:21:43,584 --> 00:21:44,875 paraffin stove. 369 00:21:45,204 --> 00:21:49,635 The Gang had a beautiful feast all practiced haunting the room 370 00:21:49,645 --> 00:21:53,474 by the light of the moon. So we got the sun coming in but 371 00:21:53,484 --> 00:21:58,295 imagine the moon making shadows on the floor as they danced up 372 00:21:58,305 --> 00:22:03,744 and down prancing and singing and chanting Latin verse. 373 00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:13,800 Then they went to the dawn window and they waited and 374 00:22:13,810 --> 00:22:20,459 watched at 3.5 AM, the first cock went off and soon 375 00:22:20,469 --> 00:22:24,619 afterwards this His B opened the door and window and we watched a 376 00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:29,449 beautiful clear dawn with the presence of Venus and Capella. 377 00:22:34,380 --> 00:22:37,069 JAMES GRASBY : The hauntings sound such fun. I mean, what 378 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:39,609 wonderful free spirits they were. 379 00:22:39,979 --> 00:22:43,719 POLLY BAGNALL: But there were some occasions when they needed 380 00:22:43,729 --> 00:22:50,569 a man. The BBC did these appeals and the National Trust wanted to 381 00:22:50,579 --> 00:22:54,989 do an appeal and they asked Ferguson to come and give the 382 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:02,069 appeal. In August 1935, Peggy, commandeered her brother and he 383 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:06,090 agreed to stand in for Ferguson. [ 384 00:23:06,090 --> 00:23:13,170 BBC RADIO PRODUCER: Actor] Ferguson. You're up next and in 385 00:23:13,229 --> 00:23:15,599 3, 2, 1. [ 386 00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:19,650 BOBBY GLADSTONE: Actor] I am Ferguson of Ferguson's Gang. I 387 00:23:19,660 --> 00:23:22,060 appeal to you tonight for the National Trust. 388 00:23:22,510 --> 00:23:25,260 JAMES GRASBY : Meanwhile, Bill and the rest of the Gang were 389 00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:27,007 gathered around the radio. [ 390 00:23:27,007 --> 00:23:29,342 BILL STICKERS: Actor] Shhs, everyone. Bobby is on air. [ 391 00:23:29,342 --> 00:23:32,300 BOBBY GLADSTONE: Actor] You can do something yourselves. Whether 392 00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:36,180 like Ferguson's Gang, you call at the offices of the Trust in a 393 00:23:36,189 --> 00:23:40,150 mask and deposit a sack of bullion or join the Trust as a 394 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,536 subscribing member. [ 395 00:23:41,536 --> 00:23:43,819 SISTER AGATHA: Actor] Well done Bobby. Bravo! 396 00:23:46,729 --> 00:23:48,310 JAMES GRASBY : So Polly, what was the result of that 397 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:49,050 broadcast? 398 00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:51,900 POLLY BAGNALL: Well, it was phenomenal. It really was. They 399 00:23:51,910 --> 00:23:56,469 raised a lot of money. They increased a lot of members, but 400 00:23:56,479 --> 00:24:01,430 it was the notoriety. Everyone was listening. So, the National 401 00:24:01,439 --> 00:24:04,750 Trust which was a small organization was inundated with 402 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,260 new members and they raised a significant amount of money for 403 00:24:08,270 --> 00:24:12,290 appeals. So it was really putting the National Trust on 404 00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:12,869 the map. 405 00:24:20,989 --> 00:24:23,390 JAMES GRASBY : Polly, you gave me a lovely tour of the mill and 406 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,439 we now come downstairs into your sitting room. The sitting room 407 00:24:26,449 --> 00:24:29,839 of your childhood home. And in the background window opening on 408 00:24:29,849 --> 00:24:33,770 to the great mill wheel that powered this whole place. What a 409 00:24:33,780 --> 00:24:34,660 place to grow up. 410 00:24:34,770 --> 00:24:37,349 POLLY BAGNALL: Yeah, we were incredibly lucky, we had a very 411 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:43,619 free and open childhood. How I got into all this was that the 412 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:49,109 National Trust had had a small group of Americans come to 413 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,060 Surrey and they said, we'd love to see the room that Ferguson's 414 00:24:53,069 --> 00:24:57,640 Gang used. My mother said, oh, Polly, can you sort out that 415 00:24:57,650 --> 00:25:00,719 room and just sort of make it look a bit more like it was when 416 00:25:00,729 --> 00:25:01,719 the Gang were there. 417 00:25:01,770 --> 00:25:05,199 Then I started getting into the history of it and asking my 418 00:25:05,209 --> 00:25:09,520 mother about the Gang. She knew a lot about the feeling of the 419 00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:12,890 Gang but not actually about the facts. She knew all their real 420 00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:17,969 names, and that was gold dust because no one apart from she 421 00:25:17,979 --> 00:25:21,270 and her sister were the only living people who knew who all 422 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,599 the Gang members were. 423 00:25:22,859 --> 00:25:27,800 And through that Sally Beck, the writer and myself as the 424 00:25:27,810 --> 00:25:34,050 researcher spent four years uncovering the whole story and 425 00:25:34,060 --> 00:25:38,790 then putting together in a book. So it tells you, you know, more 426 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,160 of the facts and really interesting information about 427 00:25:42,170 --> 00:25:43,839 all of the women involved. 428 00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:47,339 JAMES GRASBY : So, Polly, what brought the Ferguson Gang to an 429 00:25:47,349 --> 00:25:47,910 end? 430 00:25:48,579 --> 00:25:54,030 POLLY BAGNALL: I think it was a timely end for them. There's a 431 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,170 record of their last meeting here, which is in 1956, and 432 00:25:59,310 --> 00:26:02,969 rather than the nice fountain pen writing, it's written in 433 00:26:02,979 --> 00:26:07,060 ballpoint pen and they say we're all getting old in years. You 434 00:26:07,069 --> 00:26:10,699 know, some of us is losing our teeth and it was harder for them 435 00:26:10,709 --> 00:26:13,859 to climb onto the bunk bed to go to sleep. 436 00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:18,939 I think they felt that their reason for existence, their 437 00:26:18,949 --> 00:26:23,449 raison d'être, was no longer there anymore. They'd done their 438 00:26:23,459 --> 00:26:29,520 work, they didn't need to meet as a proactive campaigning 439 00:26:29,540 --> 00:26:31,000 activist group. 440 00:26:31,699 --> 00:26:33,099 JAMES GRASBY : And Polly, I'm longing to know when they 441 00:26:33,109 --> 00:26:37,719 disbanded, dd they keep the secret of who they were? 442 00:26:37,719 --> 00:26:43,579 POLLY BAGNALL: Of course, well, all except for Bill. Peggy 443 00:26:43,589 --> 00:26:50,349 couldn't keep quiet. She did reveal eventually in 1996 the 444 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,689 year she died that she was Bill Stickers of Ferguson's Gang. 445 00:26:56,339 --> 00:26:59,560 JAMES GRASBY : And it feels like a fitting end to the story. 446 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,979 Wonderful story. What do you think the Legacy is of the 447 00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:03,500 Ferguson game? 448 00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:08,119 POLLY BAGNALL: They started in 1927 before there was any 449 00:27:08,130 --> 00:27:13,199 register for buildings at risk, before there were any acts that 450 00:27:13,209 --> 00:27:17,839 stopped development like the Green Belt. And this group of 451 00:27:17,849 --> 00:27:21,969 women, they really valued city life. They loved partying in 452 00:27:21,979 --> 00:27:24,829 London and the Slade Art Balls. 453 00:27:25,089 --> 00:27:29,209 But they loved the countryside as it was darkness night where 454 00:27:29,219 --> 00:27:30,650 they could look at the stars. 455 00:27:30,930 --> 00:27:34,369 They love these buildings that tell us so much about the 456 00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:37,709 history of this country, and that's what they wanted to 457 00:27:37,719 --> 00:27:42,199 preserve. They wanted to make a distinction between city and 458 00:27:42,209 --> 00:27:45,680 country. They didn't want the tentacles of the octopus just 459 00:27:45,689 --> 00:27:50,280 extending everywhere. And that is their Legacy. We have a 460 00:27:50,290 --> 00:27:55,719 Britain that values open space and access to all. 461 00:28:03,170 --> 00:28:05,540 JAMES GRASBY : We hope you enjoyed this episode about 462 00:28:05,550 --> 00:28:09,030 Ferguson's Gang. To catch every episode of our new series. 463 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,270 Please follow the National Trust podcast on your favorite podcast 464 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,060 app. We genuinely appreciate your ratings and your reviews. 465 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,709 While Shelford Mill is not open to the public at present, you 466 00:28:20,719 --> 00:28:24,239 can still experience the Legacy of Ferguson's Gang by taking a 467 00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:27,229 walk along the Mayon and Trevescan cliffs in Sennen, 468 00:28:27,239 --> 00:28:30,689 Cornwall or by visiting the Old Town Hall on the Isle Of Wight, 469 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,859 alternatively, simply enjoy a stroll at one of the National 470 00:28:33,869 --> 00:28:35,569 Trust's many green spaces. 471 00:28:36,170 --> 00:28:39,140 If you'd like to find out more about the gang follow the links 472 00:28:39,150 --> 00:28:43,130 in the show notes. And until next time from me, James Grasby, 473 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:43,869 goodbye.