INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where
INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child protection
INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation.
INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection
INTRO: and share good practice on how we can all work
INTRO: together to keep babies, children and young
INTRO: people safe.
PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC learning Podcast.
PRODUCER: This episode of the podcast, recorded in January
PRODUCER: 2024, is all about pre-birth assessments.
PRODUCER: Assessments help health professionals to
PRODUCER: identify strengths, needs, risks
PRODUCER: and protective factors in the lives of expectant
PRODUCER: families.
PRODUCER: You'll hear from Sophie Bell, the associate head
PRODUCER: of development at the NSPCC, in conversation
PRODUCER: with Anna Squirrel and Nina Bell, social work
PRODUCER: professionals working in Blackburn with Darwen.
PRODUCER: The panel will be discussing what good pre-birth
PRODUCER: assessments look like, what social workers need
PRODUCER: to think about when conducting a pre-birth
PRODUCER: assessment, and how the NSPCC's pre-birth
PRODUCER: assessment tool, Graded Care Profile 2
PRODUCER: Antenatal, can be used to support expectant
PRODUCER: parents.
SOPHIE BELL: I'm Sophie Bell. I'm the associate head of
SOPHIE BELL: development at the NSPCC, and I'm
SOPHIE BELL: responsible for our early years portfolio,
SOPHIE BELL: which includes the Graded Care Antenatal
SOPHIE BELL: assessment.
SOPHIE BELL: And thank you, Anna and Nina, for joining us
SOPHIE BELL: today. Anna, can I hand over to you to
SOPHIE BELL: introduce yourself?
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Yeah. Hi, I'm Anna Squirrell, I'm the team
ANNA SQUIRRELL: leader in the pre-birth team in Blackburn
ANNA SQUIRRELL: with Darwen.
SOPHIE BELL: Nina.
NINA BELL: Hi. I'm Nina Bell, advanced practitioner here
NINA BELL: at safeguarding support team at Blackburn with
NINA BELL: Darwen.
SOPHIE BELL: Brilliant. Thank you both very, very much for
SOPHIE BELL: joining us today.
SOPHIE BELL: So, we're here to talk about pre-birth
SOPHIE BELL: assessments. So the first thing we're going
SOPHIE BELL: to talk about is: what is a pre-birth
SOPHIE BELL: assessment?
NINA BELL: So the pre-birth assessment is like any child
NINA BELL: and family assessment. We're looking at
NINA BELL: strengths. We're looking at risk.
NINA BELL: and within that assessment I split up to
NINA BELL: different parts.
NINA BELL: So we look at the unborn baby, health,
NINA BELL: development. We look at environmental factors
NINA BELL: and what that family's history is.
NINA BELL: And we also look at identifying the risks
NINA BELL: and what's going on for parents.
SOPHIE BELL: And in what types of situations might a
SOPHIE BELL: pre-birth assessment be needed?
NINA BELL: It can be many situations.
NINA BELL: It may be that siblings of the
NINA BELL: unborn baby are already open to us.
NINA BELL: So we would consider the unborn baby in that
NINA BELL: family assessment.
NINA BELL: Equally, we may have parents who have sadly
NINA BELL: had children removed previously.
NINA BELL: When they do become pregnant, referrals are
NINA BELL: then completed by midwifery confirming
NINA BELL: the pregnancy and need for a pre-birth
NINA BELL: assessment. There also could be many
NINA BELL: difficulties, parents and families that can
NINA BELL: equally self-refer to us as a service,
NINA BELL: for additional support as well.
SOPHIE BELL: And just as an additional question: at what
SOPHIE BELL: time frames do you do pre-birth assessments?
SOPHIE BELL: What time frame within the pregnancy would
SOPHIE BELL: you do a pre-birth assessment?
SOPHIE BELL: Does it vary, or is there a particular set
SOPHIE BELL: time frame.
NINA BELL: That's certainly changed over the last few
NINA BELL: years. We used to have to wait until the
NINA BELL: pregnancy was confirmed at least at week 12.
NINA BELL: However, we are working as soon as we,
NINA BELL: you know, the booking an appointment has been
NINA BELL: completed, and that allows additional
NINA BELL: relationship building.
NINA BELL: It allows for work to start sooner and
NINA BELL: certainly when we're using the Graded Care
NINA BELL: Profile, as soon as we start and use that tool,
NINA BELL: we're able to review that as part, you know,
NINA BELL: throughout the pregnancy as well.
NINA BELL: So, we've got that time to do that intervention
NINA BELL: with families.
SOPHIE BELL: Because I think — I know we can we're going
SOPHIE BELL: to come on to talking about challenges later
SOPHIE BELL: on — but I think one of the key challenges
SOPHIE BELL: that we faced for a long, long time is that,
SOPHIE BELL: because pregnancy is such a time-limited
SOPHIE BELL: period, how do we get that intervention
SOPHIE BELL: done? So assessments themselves take time
SOPHIE BELL: because you identified the need to build
SOPHIE BELL: relationships with people.
SOPHIE BELL: And that's really important.
SOPHIE BELL: And then by the time that assessment is
SOPHIE BELL: completed, there's often very little time
SOPHIE BELL: left to do that intervention and get the
SOPHIE BELL: parents in the right place, isn't there, for
SOPHIE BELL: the baby to have the best start in life.
SOPHIE BELL: So that's really great to hear that things
SOPHIE BELL: are starting earlier now, to allow that
SOPHIE BELL: additional time.
NINA BELL: And just to add to that, Sophie, I know,
NINA BELL: as part Blackburn with Darwen and the born into
NINA BELL: care research, a big part of that
NINA BELL: is for parents to understand what their child's
NINA BELL: plans are going to be by at least week 30.
NINA BELL: Pregnancy is stressful enough as it already is,
NINA BELL: and not knowing what the outcome is going to
NINA BELL: be, it's extremely traumatic
NINA BELL: and stressful.
NINA BELL: So the sooner parents are able to know what
NINA BELL: that outcome of that assessment is going to be,
NINA BELL: the sooner the better.
SOPHIE BELL: Absolutely. And if they don't know the
SOPHIE BELL: outcome and they're left with that unknown
SOPHIE BELL: and that stress, actually that can just add
SOPHIE BELL: to a parent's level of difficulty in terms
SOPHIE BELL: of thinking about how overloaded they feel.
SOPHIE BELL: And we know that parents who are overloaded
SOPHIE BELL: struggle more emotionally to connect with
SOPHIE BELL: their children. And even thinking about
SOPHIE BELL: bonding before birth and that bond with their
SOPHIE BELL: unborn baby, that actually, if they don't
SOPHIE BELL: know the outcome and the plan for the baby,
SOPHIE BELL: it's much more difficult for them to bond
SOPHIE BELL: with that baby.
SOPHIE BELL: What types of risks and protective factors do
SOPHIE BELL: you need to think about when conducting a
SOPHIE BELL: pre-birth assessment?
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Okay, so the protective factors we're
ANNA SQUIRRELL: looking for is what family support
ANNA SQUIRRELL: they have from the extended family,
ANNA SQUIRRELL: friends and network around them.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: We try and make sure that every family
ANNA SQUIRRELL: that is referred to us they have a family
ANNA SQUIRRELL: group conference, where all the family to
ANNA SQUIRRELL: sit around and we all try and decide what
ANNA SQUIRRELL: support they can offer for the family.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: We ask if the pregnancy is planned.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Through the work that we do, we observe if
ANNA SQUIRRELL: the parents are showing that attachment to
ANNA SQUIRRELL: their unborn baby.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: We also complete the ACE inquiry, which is
ANNA SQUIRRELL: the adverse childhood inquiry, early on in
ANNA SQUIRRELL: our involvement and support parents to
ANNA SQUIRRELL: access counselling for any trauma that
ANNA SQUIRRELL: they've experienced in their own childhood,
ANNA SQUIRRELL: which is really important.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: And the risk factors include substance
ANNA SQUIRRELL: misuse, Mental health that's not being
ANNA SQUIRRELL: managed, domestic abuse between parents
ANNA SQUIRRELL: and ongoing parental conflict, and also
ANNA SQUIRRELL: parents who have been previously separated
ANNA SQUIRRELL: from the children and have been through
ANNA SQUIRRELL: the court proceedings. They're really our
ANNA SQUIRRELL: risk factors that we are looking for.
SOPHIE BELL: You touched upon the impact of trauma there
SOPHIE BELL: Anna, and I think we know that lots of
SOPHIE BELL: families come to the attention of services
SOPHIE BELL: because of their previous childhood trauma,
SOPHIE BELL: because of their previous trauma that
SOPHIE BELL: sometimes occurred in adulthood as well.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Yeah.
SOPHIE BELL: And actually pregnancy is a real opportune
SOPHIE BELL: time for them to be able to engage in some
SOPHIE BELL: interventions, isn't it, because it's before
SOPHIE BELL: the baby's here and present and has those
SOPHIE BELL: quite demanding physical needs of looking
SOPHIE BELL: after a baby? That's very intensive, and
SOPHIE BELL: parents are often so tired that are they in a
SOPHIE BELL: position to really engage in some
SOPHIE BELL: therapeutic counselling that might be needed
SOPHIE BELL: for that trauma. So, actually thinking about
SOPHIE BELL: that during pregnancy is such a strength,
SOPHIE BELL: isn't it, to be able to to offer those
SOPHIE BELL: parents that chance to overcome some of those
SOPHIE BELL: issues that may or may not impact on their
SOPHIE BELL: ability to be the best parent to their baby.
SOPHIE BELL: And thinking about some of the
SOPHIE BELL: risk factors: are you able
SOPHIE BELL: to signpost on to interventions through
SOPHIE BELL: recognising those risk factors?
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Yeah. We've got a really good relationship
ANNA SQUIRRELL: with our colleagues and we've got
ANNA SQUIRRELL: services like the Wish Centre that we can
ANNA SQUIRRELL: refer families on to if we're concerned
ANNA SQUIRRELL: regarding domestic abuse.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: We've got the Caring Dads programme, which
ANNA SQUIRRELL: is a brilliant programme for dads where
ANNA SQUIRRELL: there has been domestic abuse that they
ANNA SQUIRRELL: can be referred onto.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: And we've got really good relationships
ANNA SQUIRRELL: with our mental health services, to
ANNA SQUIRRELL: support families accessing that help that
ANNA SQUIRRELL: they need at the earliest opportunity.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: And we work alongside perinatal as well.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: So we support, you know, with parents
ANNA SQUIRRELL: getting that early help at the right time
ANNA SQUIRRELL: for them through the pregnancy.
SOPHIE BELL: And domestic abuse is something that very
SOPHIE BELL: often begins during pregnancy.
SOPHIE BELL: So, actually, going back to that relationship
SOPHIE BELL: building that we talked about earlier, it's
SOPHIE BELL: such a difficult thing to disclose because
SOPHIE BELL: it's such a huge safety issue and there's
SOPHIE BELL: so much stigma around, people experiencing
SOPHIE BELL: domestic abuse that to be able to recognise
SOPHIE BELL: it and have people talk to us as
SOPHIE BELL: professionals about "this is something I'm
SOPHIE BELL: experiencing in my relationship", is such a
SOPHIE BELL: strength as well for you to then have
SOPHIE BELL: services that you can signpost on to.
SOPHIE BELL: Because we know that all children who
SOPHIE BELL: experience domestic abuse, regardless of
SOPHIE BELL: their age, are impacted by it.
SOPHIE BELL: And thinking about during pregnancy, the
SOPHIE BELL: impact of living with domestic abuse as the
SOPHIE BELL: physical risk, if some of the
SOPHIE BELL: physical domestic abuse is targeted at the
SOPHIE BELL: abdomen area, but also just the stress of
SOPHIE BELL: living with domestic abuse for the expectant
SOPHIE BELL: parent and the changes in the cortisol levels
SOPHIE BELL: that that baby would then directly
SOPHIE BELL: experience, is quite significant as well.
SOPHIE BELL: What challenges can present themselves when
SOPHIE BELL: conducting a pre-birth assessment?
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Well, myself and Nina were just talking
ANNA SQUIRRELL: about this earlier. And we were saying
ANNA SQUIRRELL: we're really lucky in Blackburn with
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Darwen that we rarely have parents who
ANNA SQUIRRELL: don't consent to the offer offered by our
ANNA SQUIRRELL: specialist team.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: However, if parents have been previously
ANNA SQUIRRELL: open themselves as a child, maybe to
ANNA SQUIRRELL: children's social care, or they've been
ANNA SQUIRRELL: through proceedings themselves, then they
ANNA SQUIRRELL: can often be apprehensive about working
ANNA SQUIRRELL: with children's social care again.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: But in Blackburn with Darwen we're working
ANNA SQUIRRELL: in a systemic way. So, we very much build
ANNA SQUIRRELL: on our relationships with our families,
ANNA SQUIRRELL: which is around trust and transparency and
ANNA SQUIRRELL: good communication. And like Nina said
ANNA SQUIRRELL: earlier, we want to make sure that parents
ANNA SQUIRRELL: are fully informed of the plan the whole
ANNA SQUIRRELL: way through. And that's what we like about
ANNA SQUIRRELL: the Graded Care, because while we're doing
ANNA SQUIRRELL: it, we're doing it alongside parents.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: We're not doing it to them, we're doing it
ANNA SQUIRRELL: with them. And we're looking all the way
ANNA SQUIRRELL: through that it's a strength based tool.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: We want to help. You want to know where
ANNA SQUIRRELL: you need that help and where your
ANNA SQUIRRELL: strengths are, and if there are any areas
ANNA SQUIRRELL: where you need that specific help, we can
ANNA SQUIRRELL: get that help for you in the right time
ANNA SQUIRRELL: and review it and see the progress that
ANNA SQUIRRELL: you've made.
SOPHIE BELL: So Graded Care Antenatal, or GCP2A
SOPHIE BELL: as we call it for short, is a tool designed
SOPHIE BELL: to help professionals working with expectant
SOPHIE BELL: parents to identify areas of strength and
SOPHIE BELL: areas where they may benefit from support
SOPHIE BELL: within their assessments.
SOPHIE BELL: The tool's split into three different
SOPHIE BELL: sections, so sections one and two focus on
SOPHIE BELL: the antenatal period, while section three
SOPHIE BELL: looks at the early postnatal period; so from
SOPHIE BELL: birth up to three months old.
SOPHIE BELL: Section one is designed to be used at the
SOPHIE BELL: earliest point in pregnancy when the
SOPHIE BELL: expectant parent comes into contact with
SOPHIE BELL: services, but it can be completed later on if
SOPHIE BELL: concerns don't arise until further down the
SOPHIE BELL: line. Section two is completed when
SOPHIE BELL: the areas of vulnerability or concern have
SOPHIE BELL: been identified in section one.
SOPHIE BELL: The tool includes areas of known risks that
SOPHIE BELL: are linked to safeguarding concerns in
SOPHIE BELL: babies, so it will help professionals to
SOPHIE BELL: build a picture to identify where concerns
SOPHIE BELL: emerge in relation to the impact on the
SOPHIE BELL: developing baby.
SOPHIE BELL: And it can also be used as an indicator for
SOPHIE BELL: potential safeguarding concerns after birth
SOPHIE BELL: within section three.
SOPHIE BELL: Each of the three sections uses a grading
SOPHIE BELL: scale of one to five, where one
SOPHIE BELL: indicates no concerns and five indicates high
SOPHIE BELL: concerns.
SOPHIE BELL: So, how can GCP2A help when conducting
SOPHIE BELL: a pre-birth assessment?
NINA BELL: So I know, particularly with the Graded Care
NINA BELL: Profile, one thing that we have missed for a
NINA BELL: long time is tools to assist us
NINA BELL: in looking at identifying strengths, risks
NINA BELL: and doing that work with families.
NINA BELL: So, particularly visual tools as well, for
NINA BELL: families that may have cognitive issues,
NINA BELL: may struggle with reading and writing.
NINA BELL: So the Graded Care Profile Antenatal tool
NINA BELL: really assists a lot of professionals
NINA BELL: in working with families to understand what
NINA BELL: we're concerned about.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: The Graded Care Profile gives us a perfect
ANNA SQUIRRELL: opportunity to look at the strengths that
ANNA SQUIRRELL: the family have and their network a
ANNA SQUIRRELL: support around them, in preparation for
ANNA SQUIRRELL: the birth of the baby.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: The Graded Care can give evidence of the
ANNA SQUIRRELL: current situation for the family.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: It considers the history, but will look at
ANNA SQUIRRELL: what's happening here and now for them.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: For example, are they in a new relationship?
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Maturity and the support network around
ANNA SQUIRRELL: them. Have they had support for substance
ANNA SQUIRRELL: misuse? And through the Graded Care we can
ANNA SQUIRRELL: evidence that, what's happening now with
ANNA SQUIRRELL: the family, and we can also look at the
ANNA SQUIRRELL: risks present in the pregnancy, which
ANNA SQUIRRELL: helps us make early decisions for the
ANNA SQUIRRELL: unborn baby if the risks are not being
ANNA SQUIRRELL: addressed for parents throughout that
ANNA SQUIRRELL: assessment. So it informs that early
ANNA SQUIRRELL: decision making for us as well.
NINA BELL: I just want to add, in terms of — particularly
NINA BELL: with the Graded Care Profile Antenatal — I
NINA BELL: like the way we're able to really focus on the
NINA BELL: family strengths and that family support and
NINA BELL: wider support network, because I think,
NINA BELL: particularly for a lot of our families, sadly,
NINA BELL: some parents are very isolated and do have
NINA BELL: very limited support networks.
NINA BELL: And if we can identify that as early as
NINA BELL: possible as part of relationship building,
NINA BELL: really supporting parents to access the
NINA BELL: community, and build those
NINA BELL: relationships within children's centres and
NINA BELL: know where to turn to as well.
SOPHIE BELL: And I think the other thing that we really
SOPHIE BELL: try and do through the Graded Care Antenatal
SOPHIE BELL: is acknowledge that some of those
SOPHIE BELL: risk factors aren't necessarily within the
SOPHIE BELL: control of the parents.
SOPHIE BELL: So things like for families living in poverty
SOPHIE BELL: who might be living in inadequate housing,
SOPHIE BELL: actually, we still need to recognise that for
SOPHIE BELL: the unborn baby and to try and support the
SOPHIE BELL: parents to have the right housing that's
SOPHIE BELL: suitable for their baby.
SOPHIE BELL: But actually through the Graded Care
SOPHIE BELL: Antenatal, we're looking very much at that
SOPHIE BELL: unborn baby's needs and not focusing on who
SOPHIE BELL: is to blame for this problem.
SOPHIE BELL: And some of that needs to be unpicked,
SOPHIE BELL: absolutely, through the wider pre-birth
SOPHIE BELL: assessment.
SOPHIE BELL: But it's really just an opportunity for us to
SOPHIE BELL: highlight where some of the risk areas are
SOPHIE BELL: and where some of the concerns are, but
SOPHIE BELL: actually by saying, "and now we need to
SOPHIE BELL: support you to find the right housing, to be
SOPHIE BELL: able to access the right benefits" and all of
SOPHIE BELL: those kinds of things if that's an issue for
SOPHIE BELL: families. And thinking about my
SOPHIE BELL: experiences as a practitioner, going out and
SOPHIE BELL: working with families when that was my role,
SOPHIE BELL: one of the things that families would often
SOPHIE BELL: say is "we know there's a problem, we know
SOPHIE BELL: that things aren't great, but actually we
SOPHIE BELL: just don't know how to pinpoint those
SOPHIE BELL: issues." And often it can feel so
SOPHIE BELL: overwhelming, particularly if you've had
SOPHIE BELL: services involved before.
SOPHIE BELL: And so I think to have a tool which not only
SOPHIE BELL: helps the families to pinpoint those issues,
SOPHIE BELL: but also helps them to see that there are
SOPHIE BELL: strengths as well can be really empowering
SOPHIE BELL: for families, can't it, and can really
SOPHIE BELL: support that conversation.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: It opens up those difficult discussions as
ANNA SQUIRRELL: well, and the parents are part of that
ANNA SQUIRRELL: discussion. So there's no surprises along
ANNA SQUIRRELL: the way with them. They're very much aware
ANNA SQUIRRELL: of what our concerns are right from the
ANNA SQUIRRELL: beginning, and we're working towards a
ANNA SQUIRRELL: goal which is looking at those identified
ANNA SQUIRRELL: areas and making those improvements.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: So I agree, it just really does open up
ANNA SQUIRRELL: those good conversations.
NINA BELL: Yeah. Just to add to that, I think it allows
NINA BELL: for a lot of reflection as well.
NINA BELL: Particularly for parents who have had previous
NINA BELL: involvement with social care and haven't used
NINA BELL: this tool with workers before.
NINA BELL: I think it allows for a lot of reflection
NINA BELL: and this tool allows that to happen
NINA BELL: in a less threatening way.
NINA BELL: I know I've had a lot of parents feedback to
NINA BELL: me, it's been a really nice experience
NINA BELL: for them to do it with us because they've
NINA BELL: always had assessments and work written,
NINA BELL: you know, about them and never with them.
NINA BELL: And it is about their life, isn't it?
NINA BELL: So it's, you know, I think this tool really
NINA BELL: helps with that.
SOPHIE BELL: And I think by having the information laid
SOPHIE BELL: out in a tool with the different gradings and
SOPHIE BELL: the fact that it's colour-coded and parents
SOPHIE BELL: can see, so I might be an amber now and I
SOPHIE BELL: want to move up to a yellow.
SOPHIE BELL: The yellow always will tell them what that
SOPHIE BELL: next step is so they can see then what am I
SOPHIE BELL: working towards? What's the next step up on
SOPHIE BELL: that ladder? So rather than us saying,
SOPHIE BELL: "actually this is an area of concern, you
SOPHIE BELL: need to do better." What we're saying is
SOPHIE BELL: "this is an area of concern, and what we'd
SOPHIE BELL: like to see is this", which might be a green,
SOPHIE BELL: but the next step isn't.
SOPHIE BELL: You know, we don't expect you to get from
SOPHIE BELL: nought to 100 by next week.
SOPHIE BELL: But we can see the stepping stones for
SOPHIE BELL: families to move forward, so that if there is
SOPHIE BELL: an opportunity within the pregnancy to
SOPHIE BELL: reassess or regrade the Graded Care
SOPHIE BELL: Antenatal towards the end of the pregnancy,
SOPHIE BELL: what we can do then is say, "okay, so we can
SOPHIE BELL: see that in these areas, things have improved
SOPHIE BELL: by this much, and what we'd like to see now
SOPHIE BELL: is this next step."
ANNA SQUIRRELL: I think it complements the pre-birth work
ANNA SQUIRRELL: that we do in the team as well, because we
ANNA SQUIRRELL: get referrals as early as ten, 12 weeks.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Nina will know this because obviously we get
ANNA SQUIRRELL: these referrals through from CADS
ANNA SQUIRRELL: (children's advice and duty service). And
ANNA SQUIRRELL: as soon as we get that referral through,
ANNA SQUIRRELL: we start the programme, which is looking
ANNA SQUIRRELL: at healthy eating and the importance of
ANNA SQUIRRELL: antenatal appointments, bonding and
ANNA SQUIRRELL: attachment with the unborn baby.
ANNA SQUIRRELL: And so that work really complements the
ANNA SQUIRRELL: Graded Care as well. So they kind of work
ANNA SQUIRRELL: aligned with each other, which is really
ANNA SQUIRRELL: good.
SOPHIE BELL: I think one of the challenges I recognise in
SOPHIE BELL: pre-birth assessments is about that voice of
SOPHIE BELL: the child and how we can... It's difficult
SOPHIE BELL: when you've got a baby or a pre-verbal child
SOPHIE BELL: or a non-verbal child to really include the
SOPHIE BELL: voice of the child. But actually, when you
SOPHIE BELL: can't even see that child, that can again
SOPHIE BELL: be even more difficult to try and, within the
SOPHIE BELL: assessment, articulate the voice of the child
SOPHIE BELL: in that lived experience of that unborn baby.
SOPHIE BELL: Do you have any ways or any tools that you
SOPHIE BELL: try and bring through the voice of the unborn
SOPHIE BELL: baby within your pre-birth assessments?
NINA BELL: I know, particularly for me, I write
NINA BELL: to the unborn baby as if he or
NINA BELL: she was, you know, was here.
NINA BELL: Really talking about what
NINA BELL: the current worries are, the strengths, what
NINA BELL: parents are doing to move things along
NINA BELL: and get the right help.
NINA BELL: And it seems to bring that unborn baby to life.
NINA BELL: And, you know, if they were to be born
NINA BELL: tomorrow, what what their lived experiences be?
NINA BELL: And I know family support will do that as well
NINA BELL: on home visit notes, and it does really
NINA BELL: help bring the unborn baby and that unborn
NINA BELL: voice to life.
SOPHIE BELL: Oh, that sounds fantastic.
SOPHIE BELL: And I think that's a really nice place to end
SOPHIE BELL: our discussion.
SOPHIE BELL: Anna and Nina, thank you for joining me today
SOPHIE BELL: to talk about early years assessments.
SOPHIE BELL: If you've listened to this and you want to
SOPHIE BELL: find out more about the NSPCC's Graded Care
SOPHIE BELL: Antenatal assessment tool, please visit
SOPHIE BELL: nspcc.org.uk/GCP2A.
INTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning
INTRO: podcast.
INTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content
INTRO: was up to date, but the world of safeguarding and
INTRO: child protection is ever-changing.
INTRO: So, if you're looking for the most current
INTRO: safeguarding and child protection training,
INTRO: information or resources, please visit
INTRO: our website for professionals at
INTRO: nspcc.org.uk/learning.