1 00:00:03,070 --> 00:00:06,039 INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,979 INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child protection 3 00:00:08,980 --> 00:00:12,219 INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation. 4 00:00:12,220 --> 00:00:15,159 INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,589 INTRO: and share good practice on how we can all work 6 00:00:17,590 --> 00:00:20,499 INTRO: together to keep babies, children and young 7 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:21,500 INTRO: people safe. 8 00:00:25,450 --> 00:00:28,779 PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC learning Podcast. 9 00:00:28,780 --> 00:00:32,048 PRODUCER: This episode of the podcast, recorded in January 10 00:00:32,049 --> 00:00:34,564 PRODUCER: 2024, is all about pre-birth assessments. 11 00:00:34,565 --> 00:00:37,569 PRODUCER: Assessments help health professionals to 12 00:00:37,570 --> 00:00:40,569 PRODUCER: identify strengths, needs, risks 13 00:00:40,570 --> 00:00:43,059 PRODUCER: and protective factors in the lives of expectant 14 00:00:43,060 --> 00:00:44,619 PRODUCER: families. 15 00:00:44,620 --> 00:00:46,749 PRODUCER: You'll hear from Sophie Bell, the associate head 16 00:00:46,750 --> 00:00:49,719 PRODUCER: of development at the NSPCC, in conversation 17 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,149 PRODUCER: with Anna Squirrel and Nina Bell, social work 18 00:00:52,150 --> 00:00:54,369 PRODUCER: professionals working in Blackburn with Darwen. 19 00:00:55,610 --> 00:00:57,769 PRODUCER: The panel will be discussing what good pre-birth 20 00:00:57,770 --> 00:01:00,349 PRODUCER: assessments look like, what social workers need 21 00:01:00,350 --> 00:01:02,329 PRODUCER: to think about when conducting a pre-birth 22 00:01:02,330 --> 00:01:05,149 PRODUCER: assessment, and how the NSPCC's pre-birth 23 00:01:05,150 --> 00:01:07,399 PRODUCER: assessment tool, Graded Care Profile 2 24 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,219 PRODUCER: Antenatal, can be used to support expectant 25 00:01:10,220 --> 00:01:11,220 PRODUCER: parents. 26 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,859 SOPHIE BELL: I'm Sophie Bell. I'm the associate head of 27 00:01:19,860 --> 00:01:22,979 SOPHIE BELL: development at the NSPCC, and I'm 28 00:01:22,980 --> 00:01:25,679 SOPHIE BELL: responsible for our early years portfolio, 29 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,839 SOPHIE BELL: which includes the Graded Care Antenatal 30 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,309 SOPHIE BELL: assessment. 31 00:01:29,310 --> 00:01:31,589 SOPHIE BELL: And thank you, Anna and Nina, for joining us 32 00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:33,479 SOPHIE BELL: today. Anna, can I hand over to you to 33 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:34,919 SOPHIE BELL: introduce yourself? 34 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,679 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Yeah. Hi, I'm Anna Squirrell, I'm the team 35 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,719 ANNA SQUIRRELL: leader in the pre-birth team in Blackburn 36 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,919 ANNA SQUIRRELL: with Darwen. 37 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:41,999 SOPHIE BELL: Nina. 38 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,059 NINA BELL: Hi. I'm Nina Bell, advanced practitioner here 39 00:01:45,060 --> 00:01:47,039 NINA BELL: at safeguarding support team at Blackburn with 40 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:48,059 NINA BELL: Darwen. 41 00:01:48,060 --> 00:01:50,309 SOPHIE BELL: Brilliant. Thank you both very, very much for 42 00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:51,959 SOPHIE BELL: joining us today. 43 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,669 SOPHIE BELL: So, we're here to talk about pre-birth 44 00:01:53,670 --> 00:01:55,379 SOPHIE BELL: assessments. So the first thing we're going 45 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:57,899 SOPHIE BELL: to talk about is: what is a pre-birth 46 00:01:57,900 --> 00:01:58,949 SOPHIE BELL: assessment? 47 00:01:58,950 --> 00:02:01,919 NINA BELL: So the pre-birth assessment is like any child 48 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,659 NINA BELL: and family assessment. We're looking at 49 00:02:03,660 --> 00:02:06,509 NINA BELL: strengths. We're looking at risk. 50 00:02:06,510 --> 00:02:09,149 NINA BELL: and within that assessment I split up to 51 00:02:09,150 --> 00:02:10,529 NINA BELL: different parts. 52 00:02:10,530 --> 00:02:13,289 NINA BELL: So we look at the unborn baby, health, 53 00:02:13,290 --> 00:02:16,799 NINA BELL: development. We look at environmental factors 54 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,217 NINA BELL: and what that family's history is. 55 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:22,679 NINA BELL: And we also look at identifying the risks 56 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,959 NINA BELL: and what's going on for parents. 57 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,539 SOPHIE BELL: And in what types of situations might a 58 00:02:27,540 --> 00:02:29,729 SOPHIE BELL: pre-birth assessment be needed? 59 00:02:29,730 --> 00:02:32,399 NINA BELL: It can be many situations. 60 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,609 NINA BELL: It may be that siblings of the 61 00:02:35,610 --> 00:02:38,549 NINA BELL: unborn baby are already open to us. 62 00:02:38,550 --> 00:02:41,129 NINA BELL: So we would consider the unborn baby in that 63 00:02:41,130 --> 00:02:42,539 NINA BELL: family assessment. 64 00:02:42,540 --> 00:02:45,569 NINA BELL: Equally, we may have parents who have sadly 65 00:02:45,570 --> 00:02:47,310 NINA BELL: had children removed previously. 66 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,120 NINA BELL: When they do become pregnant, referrals are 67 00:02:51,121 --> 00:02:54,059 NINA BELL: then completed by midwifery confirming 68 00:02:54,060 --> 00:02:56,519 NINA BELL: the pregnancy and need for a pre-birth 69 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,340 NINA BELL: assessment. There also could be many 70 00:03:00,510 --> 00:03:02,909 NINA BELL: difficulties, parents and families that can 71 00:03:02,910 --> 00:03:05,909 NINA BELL: equally self-refer to us as a service, 72 00:03:05,910 --> 00:03:07,799 NINA BELL: for additional support as well. 73 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,259 SOPHIE BELL: And just as an additional question: at what 74 00:03:10,260 --> 00:03:14,099 SOPHIE BELL: time frames do you do pre-birth assessments? 75 00:03:14,100 --> 00:03:15,959 SOPHIE BELL: What time frame within the pregnancy would 76 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:17,369 SOPHIE BELL: you do a pre-birth assessment? 77 00:03:17,370 --> 00:03:19,799 SOPHIE BELL: Does it vary, or is there a particular set 78 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,269 SOPHIE BELL: time frame. 79 00:03:21,270 --> 00:03:23,639 NINA BELL: That's certainly changed over the last few 80 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,729 NINA BELL: years. We used to have to wait until the 81 00:03:26,730 --> 00:03:30,659 NINA BELL: pregnancy was confirmed at least at week 12. 82 00:03:30,660 --> 00:03:34,199 NINA BELL: However, we are working as soon as we, 83 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,609 NINA BELL: you know, the booking an appointment has been 84 00:03:35,610 --> 00:03:39,119 NINA BELL: completed, and that allows additional 85 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,839 NINA BELL: relationship building. 86 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,589 NINA BELL: It allows for work to start sooner and 87 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:45,509 NINA BELL: certainly when we're using the Graded Care 88 00:03:45,510 --> 00:03:48,719 NINA BELL: Profile, as soon as we start and use that tool, 89 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,239 NINA BELL: we're able to review that as part, you know, 90 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,369 NINA BELL: throughout the pregnancy as well. 91 00:03:53,370 --> 00:03:56,369 NINA BELL: So, we've got that time to do that intervention 92 00:03:56,370 --> 00:03:57,569 NINA BELL: with families. 93 00:03:57,570 --> 00:03:58,949 SOPHIE BELL: Because I think — I know we can we're going 94 00:03:58,950 --> 00:04:00,899 SOPHIE BELL: to come on to talking about challenges later 95 00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:03,359 SOPHIE BELL: on — but I think one of the key challenges 96 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,459 SOPHIE BELL: that we faced for a long, long time is that, 97 00:04:05,460 --> 00:04:07,679 SOPHIE BELL: because pregnancy is such a time-limited 98 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,649 SOPHIE BELL: period, how do we get that intervention 99 00:04:10,650 --> 00:04:12,599 SOPHIE BELL: done? So assessments themselves take time 100 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,459 SOPHIE BELL: because you identified the need to build 101 00:04:14,460 --> 00:04:15,809 SOPHIE BELL: relationships with people. 102 00:04:15,810 --> 00:04:17,309 SOPHIE BELL: And that's really important. 103 00:04:17,310 --> 00:04:18,809 SOPHIE BELL: And then by the time that assessment is 104 00:04:18,810 --> 00:04:20,969 SOPHIE BELL: completed, there's often very little time 105 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:22,589 SOPHIE BELL: left to do that intervention and get the 106 00:04:22,590 --> 00:04:24,539 SOPHIE BELL: parents in the right place, isn't there, for 107 00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:27,269 SOPHIE BELL: the baby to have the best start in life. 108 00:04:27,270 --> 00:04:28,859 SOPHIE BELL: So that's really great to hear that things 109 00:04:28,860 --> 00:04:31,949 SOPHIE BELL: are starting earlier now, to allow that 110 00:04:31,950 --> 00:04:33,449 SOPHIE BELL: additional time. 111 00:04:33,450 --> 00:04:36,389 NINA BELL: And just to add to that, Sophie, I know, 112 00:04:36,390 --> 00:04:38,639 NINA BELL: as part Blackburn with Darwen and the born into 113 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,759 NINA BELL: care research, a big part of that 114 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,819 NINA BELL: is for parents to understand what their child's 115 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:48,029 NINA BELL: plans are going to be by at least week 30. 116 00:04:48,030 --> 00:04:50,639 NINA BELL: Pregnancy is stressful enough as it already is, 117 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,619 NINA BELL: and not knowing what the outcome is going to 118 00:04:52,620 --> 00:04:55,739 NINA BELL: be, it's extremely traumatic 119 00:04:55,740 --> 00:04:56,740 NINA BELL: and stressful. 120 00:04:57,510 --> 00:04:59,699 NINA BELL: So the sooner parents are able to know what 121 00:04:59,700 --> 00:05:01,889 NINA BELL: that outcome of that assessment is going to be, 122 00:05:01,890 --> 00:05:03,149 NINA BELL: the sooner the better. 123 00:05:03,150 --> 00:05:05,159 SOPHIE BELL: Absolutely. And if they don't know the 124 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:06,839 SOPHIE BELL: outcome and they're left with that unknown 125 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:08,789 SOPHIE BELL: and that stress, actually that can just add 126 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:11,789 SOPHIE BELL: to a parent's level of difficulty in terms 127 00:05:11,790 --> 00:05:13,919 SOPHIE BELL: of thinking about how overloaded they feel. 128 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,779 SOPHIE BELL: And we know that parents who are overloaded 129 00:05:15,780 --> 00:05:17,759 SOPHIE BELL: struggle more emotionally to connect with 130 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,319 SOPHIE BELL: their children. And even thinking about 131 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,719 SOPHIE BELL: bonding before birth and that bond with their 132 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,399 SOPHIE BELL: unborn baby, that actually, if they don't 133 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,169 SOPHIE BELL: know the outcome and the plan for the baby, 134 00:05:25,170 --> 00:05:26,909 SOPHIE BELL: it's much more difficult for them to bond 135 00:05:26,910 --> 00:05:28,559 SOPHIE BELL: with that baby. 136 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,079 SOPHIE BELL: What types of risks and protective factors do 137 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,479 SOPHIE BELL: you need to think about when conducting a 138 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,339 SOPHIE BELL: pre-birth assessment? 139 00:05:35,340 --> 00:05:37,109 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Okay, so the protective factors we're 140 00:05:37,110 --> 00:05:40,259 ANNA SQUIRRELL: looking for is what family support 141 00:05:40,260 --> 00:05:41,789 ANNA SQUIRRELL: they have from the extended family, 142 00:05:41,790 --> 00:05:44,129 ANNA SQUIRRELL: friends and network around them. 143 00:05:44,130 --> 00:05:45,959 ANNA SQUIRRELL: We try and make sure that every family 144 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,729 ANNA SQUIRRELL: that is referred to us they have a family 145 00:05:47,730 --> 00:05:50,339 ANNA SQUIRRELL: group conference, where all the family to 146 00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:53,099 ANNA SQUIRRELL: sit around and we all try and decide what 147 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:56,279 ANNA SQUIRRELL: support they can offer for the family. 148 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:58,799 ANNA SQUIRRELL: We ask if the pregnancy is planned. 149 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,479 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Through the work that we do, we observe if 150 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,069 ANNA SQUIRRELL: the parents are showing that attachment to 151 00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:03,929 ANNA SQUIRRELL: their unborn baby. 152 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:06,269 ANNA SQUIRRELL: We also complete the ACE inquiry, which is 153 00:06:06,270 --> 00:06:09,059 ANNA SQUIRRELL: the adverse childhood inquiry, early on in 154 00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:11,039 ANNA SQUIRRELL: our involvement and support parents to 155 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:12,749 ANNA SQUIRRELL: access counselling for any trauma that 156 00:06:12,750 --> 00:06:14,026 ANNA SQUIRRELL: they've experienced in their own childhood, 157 00:06:14,027 --> 00:06:16,289 ANNA SQUIRRELL: which is really important. 158 00:06:16,290 --> 00:06:19,209 ANNA SQUIRRELL: And the risk factors include substance 159 00:06:19,210 --> 00:06:21,339 ANNA SQUIRRELL: misuse, Mental health that's not being 160 00:06:21,340 --> 00:06:24,639 ANNA SQUIRRELL: managed, domestic abuse between parents 161 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,159 ANNA SQUIRRELL: and ongoing parental conflict, and also 162 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,019 ANNA SQUIRRELL: parents who have been previously separated 163 00:06:29,020 --> 00:06:30,699 ANNA SQUIRRELL: from the children and have been through 164 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:32,319 ANNA SQUIRRELL: the court proceedings. They're really our 165 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,629 ANNA SQUIRRELL: risk factors that we are looking for. 166 00:06:34,630 --> 00:06:37,629 SOPHIE BELL: You touched upon the impact of trauma there 167 00:06:37,630 --> 00:06:40,089 SOPHIE BELL: Anna, and I think we know that lots of 168 00:06:40,090 --> 00:06:42,519 SOPHIE BELL: families come to the attention of services 169 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,129 SOPHIE BELL: because of their previous childhood trauma, 170 00:06:45,130 --> 00:06:46,719 SOPHIE BELL: because of their previous trauma that 171 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,849 SOPHIE BELL: sometimes occurred in adulthood as well. 172 00:06:48,850 --> 00:06:49,089 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Yeah. 173 00:06:49,090 --> 00:06:51,339 SOPHIE BELL: And actually pregnancy is a real opportune 174 00:06:51,340 --> 00:06:53,409 SOPHIE BELL: time for them to be able to engage in some 175 00:06:53,410 --> 00:06:56,139 SOPHIE BELL: interventions, isn't it, because it's before 176 00:06:56,140 --> 00:06:58,509 SOPHIE BELL: the baby's here and present and has those 177 00:06:58,510 --> 00:07:00,429 SOPHIE BELL: quite demanding physical needs of looking 178 00:07:00,430 --> 00:07:02,259 SOPHIE BELL: after a baby? That's very intensive, and 179 00:07:02,260 --> 00:07:04,509 SOPHIE BELL: parents are often so tired that are they in a 180 00:07:04,510 --> 00:07:07,419 SOPHIE BELL: position to really engage in some 181 00:07:07,420 --> 00:07:09,969 SOPHIE BELL: therapeutic counselling that might be needed 182 00:07:09,970 --> 00:07:12,489 SOPHIE BELL: for that trauma. So, actually thinking about 183 00:07:12,490 --> 00:07:14,379 SOPHIE BELL: that during pregnancy is such a strength, 184 00:07:14,380 --> 00:07:16,509 SOPHIE BELL: isn't it, to be able to to offer those 185 00:07:16,510 --> 00:07:18,969 SOPHIE BELL: parents that chance to overcome some of those 186 00:07:18,970 --> 00:07:21,099 SOPHIE BELL: issues that may or may not impact on their 187 00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:22,997 SOPHIE BELL: ability to be the best parent to their baby. 188 00:07:22,998 --> 00:07:26,079 SOPHIE BELL: And thinking about some of the 189 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,079 SOPHIE BELL: risk factors: are you able 190 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,797 SOPHIE BELL: to signpost on to interventions through 191 00:07:31,798 --> 00:07:35,049 SOPHIE BELL: recognising those risk factors? 192 00:07:35,050 --> 00:07:36,849 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Yeah. We've got a really good relationship 193 00:07:36,850 --> 00:07:39,969 ANNA SQUIRRELL: with our colleagues and we've got 194 00:07:39,970 --> 00:07:42,549 ANNA SQUIRRELL: services like the Wish Centre that we can 195 00:07:42,550 --> 00:07:44,149 ANNA SQUIRRELL: refer families on to if we're concerned 196 00:07:44,150 --> 00:07:45,729 ANNA SQUIRRELL: regarding domestic abuse. 197 00:07:45,730 --> 00:07:47,619 ANNA SQUIRRELL: We've got the Caring Dads programme, which 198 00:07:47,620 --> 00:07:50,199 ANNA SQUIRRELL: is a brilliant programme for dads where 199 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,649 ANNA SQUIRRELL: there has been domestic abuse that they 200 00:07:52,650 --> 00:07:54,729 ANNA SQUIRRELL: can be referred onto. 201 00:07:54,730 --> 00:07:56,439 ANNA SQUIRRELL: And we've got really good relationships 202 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,659 ANNA SQUIRRELL: with our mental health services, to 203 00:07:58,660 --> 00:08:01,299 ANNA SQUIRRELL: support families accessing that help that 204 00:08:01,300 --> 00:08:02,859 ANNA SQUIRRELL: they need at the earliest opportunity. 205 00:08:02,860 --> 00:08:05,619 ANNA SQUIRRELL: And we work alongside perinatal as well. 206 00:08:05,620 --> 00:08:08,409 ANNA SQUIRRELL: So we support, you know, with parents 207 00:08:08,410 --> 00:08:10,629 ANNA SQUIRRELL: getting that early help at the right time 208 00:08:10,630 --> 00:08:12,879 ANNA SQUIRRELL: for them through the pregnancy. 209 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,679 SOPHIE BELL: And domestic abuse is something that very 210 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,080 SOPHIE BELL: often begins during pregnancy. 211 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,709 SOPHIE BELL: So, actually, going back to that relationship 212 00:08:20,710 --> 00:08:22,359 SOPHIE BELL: building that we talked about earlier, it's 213 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,429 SOPHIE BELL: such a difficult thing to disclose because 214 00:08:24,430 --> 00:08:27,459 SOPHIE BELL: it's such a huge safety issue and there's 215 00:08:27,460 --> 00:08:30,429 SOPHIE BELL: so much stigma around, people experiencing 216 00:08:30,430 --> 00:08:33,308 SOPHIE BELL: domestic abuse that to be able to recognise 217 00:08:33,309 --> 00:08:34,808 SOPHIE BELL: it and have people talk to us as 218 00:08:34,809 --> 00:08:36,428 SOPHIE BELL: professionals about "this is something I'm 219 00:08:36,429 --> 00:08:38,739 SOPHIE BELL: experiencing in my relationship", is such a 220 00:08:38,740 --> 00:08:41,079 SOPHIE BELL: strength as well for you to then have 221 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:42,939 SOPHIE BELL: services that you can signpost on to. 222 00:08:42,940 --> 00:08:44,529 SOPHIE BELL: Because we know that all children who 223 00:08:44,530 --> 00:08:46,509 SOPHIE BELL: experience domestic abuse, regardless of 224 00:08:46,510 --> 00:08:49,329 SOPHIE BELL: their age, are impacted by it. 225 00:08:49,330 --> 00:08:51,279 SOPHIE BELL: And thinking about during pregnancy, the 226 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,351 SOPHIE BELL: impact of living with domestic abuse as the 227 00:08:53,352 --> 00:08:56,619 SOPHIE BELL: physical risk, if some of the 228 00:08:56,620 --> 00:08:58,719 SOPHIE BELL: physical domestic abuse is targeted at the 229 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,169 SOPHIE BELL: abdomen area, but also just the stress of 230 00:09:02,170 --> 00:09:04,299 SOPHIE BELL: living with domestic abuse for the expectant 231 00:09:04,300 --> 00:09:07,329 SOPHIE BELL: parent and the changes in the cortisol levels 232 00:09:07,330 --> 00:09:09,099 SOPHIE BELL: that that baby would then directly 233 00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:12,489 SOPHIE BELL: experience, is quite significant as well. 234 00:09:12,490 --> 00:09:14,499 SOPHIE BELL: What challenges can present themselves when 235 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:17,109 SOPHIE BELL: conducting a pre-birth assessment? 236 00:09:17,110 --> 00:09:18,489 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Well, myself and Nina were just talking 237 00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:19,809 ANNA SQUIRRELL: about this earlier. And we were saying 238 00:09:19,810 --> 00:09:21,069 ANNA SQUIRRELL: we're really lucky in Blackburn with 239 00:09:21,070 --> 00:09:23,199 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Darwen that we rarely have parents who 240 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,419 ANNA SQUIRRELL: don't consent to the offer offered by our 241 00:09:25,420 --> 00:09:27,249 ANNA SQUIRRELL: specialist team. 242 00:09:27,250 --> 00:09:29,829 ANNA SQUIRRELL: However, if parents have been previously 243 00:09:29,830 --> 00:09:31,659 ANNA SQUIRRELL: open themselves as a child, maybe to 244 00:09:31,660 --> 00:09:33,639 ANNA SQUIRRELL: children's social care, or they've been 245 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,769 ANNA SQUIRRELL: through proceedings themselves, then they 246 00:09:35,770 --> 00:09:38,019 ANNA SQUIRRELL: can often be apprehensive about working 247 00:09:38,020 --> 00:09:40,479 ANNA SQUIRRELL: with children's social care again. 248 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,429 ANNA SQUIRRELL: But in Blackburn with Darwen we're working 249 00:09:42,430 --> 00:09:45,489 ANNA SQUIRRELL: in a systemic way. So, we very much build 250 00:09:45,490 --> 00:09:47,499 ANNA SQUIRRELL: on our relationships with our families, 251 00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:49,689 ANNA SQUIRRELL: which is around trust and transparency and 252 00:09:49,690 --> 00:09:51,399 ANNA SQUIRRELL: good communication. And like Nina said 253 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,529 ANNA SQUIRRELL: earlier, we want to make sure that parents 254 00:09:53,530 --> 00:09:55,389 ANNA SQUIRRELL: are fully informed of the plan the whole 255 00:09:55,390 --> 00:09:57,789 ANNA SQUIRRELL: way through. And that's what we like about 256 00:09:57,790 --> 00:09:59,349 ANNA SQUIRRELL: the Graded Care, because while we're doing 257 00:09:59,350 --> 00:10:01,359 ANNA SQUIRRELL: it, we're doing it alongside parents. 258 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,729 ANNA SQUIRRELL: We're not doing it to them, we're doing it 259 00:10:03,730 --> 00:10:05,979 ANNA SQUIRRELL: with them. And we're looking all the way 260 00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:07,599 ANNA SQUIRRELL: through that it's a strength based tool. 261 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,189 ANNA SQUIRRELL: We want to help. You want to know where 262 00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:10,689 ANNA SQUIRRELL: you need that help and where your 263 00:10:10,690 --> 00:10:12,969 ANNA SQUIRRELL: strengths are, and if there are any areas 264 00:10:12,970 --> 00:10:14,739 ANNA SQUIRRELL: where you need that specific help, we can 265 00:10:14,740 --> 00:10:16,719 ANNA SQUIRRELL: get that help for you in the right time 266 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,819 ANNA SQUIRRELL: and review it and see the progress that 267 00:10:18,820 --> 00:10:20,649 ANNA SQUIRRELL: you've made. 268 00:10:20,650 --> 00:10:23,769 SOPHIE BELL: So Graded Care Antenatal, or GCP2A 269 00:10:23,770 --> 00:10:26,259 SOPHIE BELL: as we call it for short, is a tool designed 270 00:10:26,260 --> 00:10:28,779 SOPHIE BELL: to help professionals working with expectant 271 00:10:28,780 --> 00:10:31,719 SOPHIE BELL: parents to identify areas of strength and 272 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,669 SOPHIE BELL: areas where they may benefit from support 273 00:10:33,670 --> 00:10:35,769 SOPHIE BELL: within their assessments. 274 00:10:35,770 --> 00:10:37,749 SOPHIE BELL: The tool's split into three different 275 00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:40,539 SOPHIE BELL: sections, so sections one and two focus on 276 00:10:40,540 --> 00:10:43,119 SOPHIE BELL: the antenatal period, while section three 277 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,369 SOPHIE BELL: looks at the early postnatal period; so from 278 00:10:45,370 --> 00:10:47,619 SOPHIE BELL: birth up to three months old. 279 00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:49,899 SOPHIE BELL: Section one is designed to be used at the 280 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:52,059 SOPHIE BELL: earliest point in pregnancy when the 281 00:10:52,060 --> 00:10:54,099 SOPHIE BELL: expectant parent comes into contact with 282 00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:56,859 SOPHIE BELL: services, but it can be completed later on if 283 00:10:56,860 --> 00:10:58,959 SOPHIE BELL: concerns don't arise until further down the 284 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,869 SOPHIE BELL: line. Section two is completed when 285 00:11:01,870 --> 00:11:04,269 SOPHIE BELL: the areas of vulnerability or concern have 286 00:11:04,270 --> 00:11:06,429 SOPHIE BELL: been identified in section one. 287 00:11:06,430 --> 00:11:09,159 SOPHIE BELL: The tool includes areas of known risks that 288 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,649 SOPHIE BELL: are linked to safeguarding concerns in 289 00:11:11,650 --> 00:11:13,989 SOPHIE BELL: babies, so it will help professionals to 290 00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:16,449 SOPHIE BELL: build a picture to identify where concerns 291 00:11:16,450 --> 00:11:18,429 SOPHIE BELL: emerge in relation to the impact on the 292 00:11:18,430 --> 00:11:20,079 SOPHIE BELL: developing baby. 293 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,359 SOPHIE BELL: And it can also be used as an indicator for 294 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,879 SOPHIE BELL: potential safeguarding concerns after birth 295 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,589 SOPHIE BELL: within section three. 296 00:11:26,590 --> 00:11:28,719 SOPHIE BELL: Each of the three sections uses a grading 297 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,959 SOPHIE BELL: scale of one to five, where one 298 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,019 SOPHIE BELL: indicates no concerns and five indicates high 299 00:11:35,020 --> 00:11:36,339 SOPHIE BELL: concerns. 300 00:11:36,340 --> 00:11:39,399 SOPHIE BELL: So, how can GCP2A help when conducting 301 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,779 SOPHIE BELL: a pre-birth assessment? 302 00:11:41,900 --> 00:11:44,299 NINA BELL: So I know, particularly with the Graded Care 303 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:47,179 NINA BELL: Profile, one thing that we have missed for a 304 00:11:47,180 --> 00:11:50,149 NINA BELL: long time is tools to assist us 305 00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:53,449 NINA BELL: in looking at identifying strengths, risks 306 00:11:53,450 --> 00:11:55,489 NINA BELL: and doing that work with families. 307 00:11:55,490 --> 00:11:58,369 NINA BELL: So, particularly visual tools as well, for 308 00:11:58,370 --> 00:12:02,149 NINA BELL: families that may have cognitive issues, 309 00:12:02,150 --> 00:12:05,359 NINA BELL: may struggle with reading and writing. 310 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,299 NINA BELL: So the Graded Care Profile Antenatal tool 311 00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:11,300 NINA BELL: really assists a lot of professionals 312 00:12:12,380 --> 00:12:14,149 NINA BELL: in working with families to understand what 313 00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:15,739 NINA BELL: we're concerned about. 314 00:12:15,740 --> 00:12:18,139 ANNA SQUIRRELL: The Graded Care Profile gives us a perfect 315 00:12:18,140 --> 00:12:20,179 ANNA SQUIRRELL: opportunity to look at the strengths that 316 00:12:20,180 --> 00:12:21,589 ANNA SQUIRRELL: the family have and their network a 317 00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:23,899 ANNA SQUIRRELL: support around them, in preparation for 318 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:25,789 ANNA SQUIRRELL: the birth of the baby. 319 00:12:25,790 --> 00:12:27,619 ANNA SQUIRRELL: The Graded Care can give evidence of the 320 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:29,209 ANNA SQUIRRELL: current situation for the family. 321 00:12:29,210 --> 00:12:31,249 ANNA SQUIRRELL: It considers the history, but will look at 322 00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:33,349 ANNA SQUIRRELL: what's happening here and now for them. 323 00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:35,180 ANNA SQUIRRELL: For example, are they in a new relationship? 324 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,989 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Maturity and the support network around 325 00:12:38,990 --> 00:12:40,909 ANNA SQUIRRELL: them. Have they had support for substance 326 00:12:40,910 --> 00:12:43,219 ANNA SQUIRRELL: misuse? And through the Graded Care we can 327 00:12:43,220 --> 00:12:45,679 ANNA SQUIRRELL: evidence that, what's happening now with 328 00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:47,509 ANNA SQUIRRELL: the family, and we can also look at the 329 00:12:47,510 --> 00:12:50,659 ANNA SQUIRRELL: risks present in the pregnancy, which 330 00:12:50,660 --> 00:12:52,159 ANNA SQUIRRELL: helps us make early decisions for the 331 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,139 ANNA SQUIRRELL: unborn baby if the risks are not being 332 00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:56,119 ANNA SQUIRRELL: addressed for parents throughout that 333 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,069 ANNA SQUIRRELL: assessment. So it informs that early 334 00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:00,469 ANNA SQUIRRELL: decision making for us as well. 335 00:13:00,470 --> 00:13:03,079 NINA BELL: I just want to add, in terms of — particularly 336 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,455 NINA BELL: with the Graded Care Profile Antenatal — I 337 00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:09,139 NINA BELL: like the way we're able to really focus on the 338 00:13:09,140 --> 00:13:11,719 NINA BELL: family strengths and that family support and 339 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,089 NINA BELL: wider support network, because I think, 340 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:16,369 NINA BELL: particularly for a lot of our families, sadly, 341 00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:19,669 NINA BELL: some parents are very isolated and do have 342 00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:21,739 NINA BELL: very limited support networks. 343 00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:24,499 NINA BELL: And if we can identify that as early as 344 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:27,379 NINA BELL: possible as part of relationship building, 345 00:13:27,380 --> 00:13:29,089 NINA BELL: really supporting parents to access the 346 00:13:29,090 --> 00:13:32,239 NINA BELL: community, and build those 347 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,879 NINA BELL: relationships within children's centres and 348 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,589 NINA BELL: know where to turn to as well. 349 00:13:36,590 --> 00:13:39,229 SOPHIE BELL: And I think the other thing that we really 350 00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:41,509 SOPHIE BELL: try and do through the Graded Care Antenatal 351 00:13:41,510 --> 00:13:44,539 SOPHIE BELL: is acknowledge that some of those 352 00:13:44,540 --> 00:13:46,759 SOPHIE BELL: risk factors aren't necessarily within the 353 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,139 SOPHIE BELL: control of the parents. 354 00:13:48,140 --> 00:13:50,299 SOPHIE BELL: So things like for families living in poverty 355 00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:52,699 SOPHIE BELL: who might be living in inadequate housing, 356 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:54,769 SOPHIE BELL: actually, we still need to recognise that for 357 00:13:54,770 --> 00:13:56,719 SOPHIE BELL: the unborn baby and to try and support the 358 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,888 SOPHIE BELL: parents to have the right housing that's 359 00:13:58,889 --> 00:13:59,889 SOPHIE BELL: suitable for their baby. 360 00:14:00,770 --> 00:14:02,329 SOPHIE BELL: But actually through the Graded Care 361 00:14:02,330 --> 00:14:04,909 SOPHIE BELL: Antenatal, we're looking very much at that 362 00:14:04,910 --> 00:14:07,729 SOPHIE BELL: unborn baby's needs and not focusing on who 363 00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:09,409 SOPHIE BELL: is to blame for this problem. 364 00:14:09,410 --> 00:14:11,329 SOPHIE BELL: And some of that needs to be unpicked, 365 00:14:11,330 --> 00:14:13,099 SOPHIE BELL: absolutely, through the wider pre-birth 366 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:14,629 SOPHIE BELL: assessment. 367 00:14:14,630 --> 00:14:16,609 SOPHIE BELL: But it's really just an opportunity for us to 368 00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:19,069 SOPHIE BELL: highlight where some of the risk areas are 369 00:14:19,070 --> 00:14:20,779 SOPHIE BELL: and where some of the concerns are, but 370 00:14:20,780 --> 00:14:22,459 SOPHIE BELL: actually by saying, "and now we need to 371 00:14:22,460 --> 00:14:25,429 SOPHIE BELL: support you to find the right housing, to be 372 00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:27,499 SOPHIE BELL: able to access the right benefits" and all of 373 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:29,209 SOPHIE BELL: those kinds of things if that's an issue for 374 00:14:29,210 --> 00:14:32,269 SOPHIE BELL: families. And thinking about my 375 00:14:32,270 --> 00:14:34,489 SOPHIE BELL: experiences as a practitioner, going out and 376 00:14:34,490 --> 00:14:37,369 SOPHIE BELL: working with families when that was my role, 377 00:14:37,370 --> 00:14:39,469 SOPHIE BELL: one of the things that families would often 378 00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:41,299 SOPHIE BELL: say is "we know there's a problem, we know 379 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:43,459 SOPHIE BELL: that things aren't great, but actually we 380 00:14:43,460 --> 00:14:45,919 SOPHIE BELL: just don't know how to pinpoint those 381 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,139 SOPHIE BELL: issues." And often it can feel so 382 00:14:48,140 --> 00:14:50,059 SOPHIE BELL: overwhelming, particularly if you've had 383 00:14:50,060 --> 00:14:52,099 SOPHIE BELL: services involved before. 384 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:55,399 SOPHIE BELL: And so I think to have a tool which not only 385 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,739 SOPHIE BELL: helps the families to pinpoint those issues, 386 00:14:57,740 --> 00:14:59,569 SOPHIE BELL: but also helps them to see that there are 387 00:14:59,570 --> 00:15:02,269 SOPHIE BELL: strengths as well can be really empowering 388 00:15:02,270 --> 00:15:03,859 SOPHIE BELL: for families, can't it, and can really 389 00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:05,839 SOPHIE BELL: support that conversation. 390 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,789 ANNA SQUIRRELL: It opens up those difficult discussions as 391 00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:09,889 ANNA SQUIRRELL: well, and the parents are part of that 392 00:15:09,890 --> 00:15:12,469 ANNA SQUIRRELL: discussion. So there's no surprises along 393 00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:14,239 ANNA SQUIRRELL: the way with them. They're very much aware 394 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,979 ANNA SQUIRRELL: of what our concerns are right from the 395 00:15:15,980 --> 00:15:17,629 ANNA SQUIRRELL: beginning, and we're working towards a 396 00:15:17,630 --> 00:15:20,869 ANNA SQUIRRELL: goal which is looking at those identified 397 00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:22,999 ANNA SQUIRRELL: areas and making those improvements. 398 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,969 ANNA SQUIRRELL: So I agree, it just really does open up 399 00:15:25,970 --> 00:15:28,429 ANNA SQUIRRELL: those good conversations. 400 00:15:28,430 --> 00:15:31,309 NINA BELL: Yeah. Just to add to that, I think it allows 401 00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:33,469 NINA BELL: for a lot of reflection as well. 402 00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:36,649 NINA BELL: Particularly for parents who have had previous 403 00:15:36,650 --> 00:15:38,522 NINA BELL: involvement with social care and haven't used 404 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,449 NINA BELL: this tool with workers before. 405 00:15:41,450 --> 00:15:43,191 NINA BELL: I think it allows for a lot of reflection 406 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,264 NINA BELL: and this tool allows that to happen 407 00:15:47,270 --> 00:15:49,169 NINA BELL: in a less threatening way. 408 00:15:49,170 --> 00:15:51,289 NINA BELL: I know I've had a lot of parents feedback to 409 00:15:51,290 --> 00:15:54,379 NINA BELL: me, it's been a really nice experience 410 00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:56,479 NINA BELL: for them to do it with us because they've 411 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,659 NINA BELL: always had assessments and work written, 412 00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:01,580 NINA BELL: you know, about them and never with them. 413 00:16:02,630 --> 00:16:04,489 NINA BELL: And it is about their life, isn't it? 414 00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:06,439 NINA BELL: So it's, you know, I think this tool really 415 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:07,489 NINA BELL: helps with that. 416 00:16:07,490 --> 00:16:09,889 SOPHIE BELL: And I think by having the information laid 417 00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:13,149 SOPHIE BELL: out in a tool with the different gradings and 418 00:16:13,150 --> 00:16:15,229 SOPHIE BELL: the fact that it's colour-coded and parents 419 00:16:15,230 --> 00:16:17,509 SOPHIE BELL: can see, so I might be an amber now and I 420 00:16:17,510 --> 00:16:19,189 SOPHIE BELL: want to move up to a yellow. 421 00:16:19,190 --> 00:16:22,129 SOPHIE BELL: The yellow always will tell them what that 422 00:16:22,130 --> 00:16:25,039 SOPHIE BELL: next step is so they can see then what am I 423 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,019 SOPHIE BELL: working towards? What's the next step up on 424 00:16:27,020 --> 00:16:29,241 SOPHIE BELL: that ladder? So rather than us saying, 425 00:16:29,242 --> 00:16:31,519 SOPHIE BELL: "actually this is an area of concern, you 426 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,039 SOPHIE BELL: need to do better." What we're saying is 427 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,109 SOPHIE BELL: "this is an area of concern, and what we'd 428 00:16:36,110 --> 00:16:39,559 SOPHIE BELL: like to see is this", which might be a green, 429 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,609 SOPHIE BELL: but the next step isn't. 430 00:16:41,610 --> 00:16:43,139 SOPHIE BELL: You know, we don't expect you to get from 431 00:16:43,140 --> 00:16:45,929 SOPHIE BELL: nought to 100 by next week. 432 00:16:45,930 --> 00:16:47,910 SOPHIE BELL: But we can see the stepping stones for 433 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,389 SOPHIE BELL: families to move forward, so that if there is 434 00:16:51,390 --> 00:16:53,489 SOPHIE BELL: an opportunity within the pregnancy to 435 00:16:53,490 --> 00:16:56,579 SOPHIE BELL: reassess or regrade the Graded Care 436 00:16:56,580 --> 00:16:59,429 SOPHIE BELL: Antenatal towards the end of the pregnancy, 437 00:16:59,430 --> 00:17:01,589 SOPHIE BELL: what we can do then is say, "okay, so we can 438 00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:04,858 SOPHIE BELL: see that in these areas, things have improved 439 00:17:04,859 --> 00:17:06,838 SOPHIE BELL: by this much, and what we'd like to see now 440 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:08,338 SOPHIE BELL: is this next step." 441 00:17:08,339 --> 00:17:10,078 ANNA SQUIRRELL: I think it complements the pre-birth work 442 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:12,389 ANNA SQUIRRELL: that we do in the team as well, because we 443 00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:15,269 ANNA SQUIRRELL: get referrals as early as ten, 12 weeks. 444 00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:16,618 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Nina will know this because obviously we get 445 00:17:16,619 --> 00:17:17,860 ANNA SQUIRRELL: these referrals through from CADS 446 00:17:17,861 --> 00:17:19,169 ANNA SQUIRRELL: (children's advice and duty service). And 447 00:17:19,170 --> 00:17:20,848 ANNA SQUIRRELL: as soon as we get that referral through, 448 00:17:20,849 --> 00:17:22,709 ANNA SQUIRRELL: we start the programme, which is looking 449 00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:25,318 ANNA SQUIRRELL: at healthy eating and the importance of 450 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:26,999 ANNA SQUIRRELL: antenatal appointments, bonding and 451 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,639 ANNA SQUIRRELL: attachment with the unborn baby. 452 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,739 ANNA SQUIRRELL: And so that work really complements the 453 00:17:31,740 --> 00:17:33,779 ANNA SQUIRRELL: Graded Care as well. So they kind of work 454 00:17:33,780 --> 00:17:35,309 ANNA SQUIRRELL: aligned with each other, which is really 455 00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:36,539 ANNA SQUIRRELL: good. 456 00:17:36,540 --> 00:17:37,972 SOPHIE BELL: I think one of the challenges I recognise in 457 00:17:37,973 --> 00:17:40,709 SOPHIE BELL: pre-birth assessments is about that voice of 458 00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:43,229 SOPHIE BELL: the child and how we can... It's difficult 459 00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:45,749 SOPHIE BELL: when you've got a baby or a pre-verbal child 460 00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:47,789 SOPHIE BELL: or a non-verbal child to really include the 461 00:17:47,790 --> 00:17:49,169 SOPHIE BELL: voice of the child. But actually, when you 462 00:17:49,170 --> 00:17:52,079 SOPHIE BELL: can't even see that child, that can again 463 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,929 SOPHIE BELL: be even more difficult to try and, within the 464 00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:57,089 SOPHIE BELL: assessment, articulate the voice of the child 465 00:17:57,090 --> 00:18:00,029 SOPHIE BELL: in that lived experience of that unborn baby. 466 00:18:00,030 --> 00:18:03,269 SOPHIE BELL: Do you have any ways or any tools that you 467 00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:05,639 SOPHIE BELL: try and bring through the voice of the unborn 468 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,249 SOPHIE BELL: baby within your pre-birth assessments? 469 00:18:08,250 --> 00:18:11,609 NINA BELL: I know, particularly for me, I write 470 00:18:11,610 --> 00:18:14,569 NINA BELL: to the unborn baby as if he or 471 00:18:14,570 --> 00:18:16,032 NINA BELL: she was, you know, was here. 472 00:18:16,033 --> 00:18:19,699 NINA BELL: Really talking about what 473 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:21,649 NINA BELL: the current worries are, the strengths, what 474 00:18:21,650 --> 00:18:24,949 NINA BELL: parents are doing to move things along 475 00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:26,599 NINA BELL: and get the right help. 476 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,329 NINA BELL: And it seems to bring that unborn baby to life. 477 00:18:29,330 --> 00:18:31,549 NINA BELL: And, you know, if they were to be born 478 00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:34,819 NINA BELL: tomorrow, what what their lived experiences be? 479 00:18:34,820 --> 00:18:37,669 NINA BELL: And I know family support will do that as well 480 00:18:37,670 --> 00:18:40,699 NINA BELL: on home visit notes, and it does really 481 00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:43,549 NINA BELL: help bring the unborn baby and that unborn 482 00:18:43,550 --> 00:18:45,109 NINA BELL: voice to life. 483 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:47,209 SOPHIE BELL: Oh, that sounds fantastic. 484 00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:49,369 SOPHIE BELL: And I think that's a really nice place to end 485 00:18:49,370 --> 00:18:50,719 SOPHIE BELL: our discussion. 486 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,999 SOPHIE BELL: Anna and Nina, thank you for joining me today 487 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,759 SOPHIE BELL: to talk about early years assessments. 488 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,379 SOPHIE BELL: If you've listened to this and you want to 489 00:18:57,380 --> 00:19:00,109 SOPHIE BELL: find out more about the NSPCC's Graded Care 490 00:19:00,110 --> 00:19:02,719 SOPHIE BELL: Antenatal assessment tool, please visit 491 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,720 SOPHIE BELL: nspcc.org.uk/GCP2A. 492 00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:13,669 INTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning 493 00:19:13,670 --> 00:19:14,989 INTRO: podcast. 494 00:19:14,990 --> 00:19:17,599 INTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content 495 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,239 INTRO: was up to date, but the world of safeguarding and 496 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,250 INTRO: child protection is ever-changing. 497 00:19:22,580 --> 00:19:24,679 INTRO: So, if you're looking for the most current 498 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,379 INTRO: safeguarding and child protection training, 499 00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:30,379 INTRO: information or resources, please visit 500 00:19:30,380 --> 00:19:32,677 INTRO: our website for professionals at 501 00:19:32,678 --> 00:19:33,678 INTRO: nspcc.org.uk/learning.