Welcome to Alumni Live: The Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University film and video

graduates about the industry, the film, video, major and alumni profiles.

Welcome back to Alumni Live, the podcast.

I'm Caitlyn Shaw, and I'm a second year film and video major with an interest

in directing, which is why I am very excited to be speaking with today's

guest, Mike Judd, who is currently working as a director and AD in LA.

Mike has worked on a number of projects, both film and television,

ranging from films like Evan Almighty and Gran Torino, to the

TV shows New Girl and Young Sheldon.

He also wrote, directed, and produced his independent film, Own Worst Enemy.

Welcome, Mike.

Thank you.

Good to be here.

Can you just give us a brief overview of what you do and kind of

the history of how you got there?

I will try to be brief.

Sure.

The last, 12 years I've been working primarily as a first assistant director.

Largely on television series, but the occasional indie feature or pilot

in between, some of those seasons.

And then the the last three, three and a half years I've also been

directing a bit on Young Sheldon which is the show I've currently been on.

in general, kind of the broad view of it, when I moved out to LA.

in about, 2000, late 2000, started doing P.

A.

work and some non union camera A.

C.

work.

The PA work was on largely, like kind of studio films.

I was doing like Seabiscuit and The Ring and, Terminator 3.

So it was, you know, being able to be on some very large, film sets.

And then after a while, I was able, I had enough days of being a PA that I could

submit that to the Director's Guild and join the DGA as a assistant director.

And then it just kind of, kept going from there.

Did you always know you wanted to work in film and television?

I wouldn't say always.

I didn't, when I came to Grand Valley, I didn't even really know what I was going

to get myself into, but my roommate at the time and friend, Dan Peretti and I both.

Kind of were film buffs and thought that we should start writing screenplays.

And somebody introduced us to the film program and gave us a tour.

And then in order to take the screenwriting class, which we

wanted to do, we had to take the beginning production class.

And by that point I was hooked.

And I liked all aspects of production, editing, shooting, all of it and,

ended up, interning at cable access station WKTV, Grand Rapids area and

then after I graduated I did some freelance stuff in Grand Rapids and also

worked at WZZM as a morning cameraman.

So it was all, production, it was all fun, it was all.

something new every day and then happened to run into a few other

recent graduates who said they were moving out to LA in a month.

And, I think jokingly asked, do I want to join them?

And I said, I think I do.

You know, I was kind of, the studio news.

situation had gotten a little, tedious, just, you know, every day it was kind

of, you're kind of doing the same thing.

So I wanted to kind of explore and give it my shot and work in LA and

see if, it would work out, knowing that I could always come back.

Are you still in contact with any other alumni from your GV days?

Not so much.

My closest friends were not film students really, the ones I keep in touch with

the most, but there are a few out here that, I've stayed in touch with and

some that, actually I've met out here are probably the ones I are more in

touch with, like Jeremy Howe, who's also a writer and director on Young

Sheldon, who came up to me, I think season one after early table read and

said, Hey, we went to the same college.

So, we're pretty close.

. There's a, another alum named Tommy O'Rourke, who, is a writer director.

Who just had a screening of a short film he did a couple weeks ago, and, the reason

I know him is his wife was a hairdresser on Young Sheldon, so it's kind of like

weird, circles like that, but I got to go out and see his short film and hung

out afterwards and there are other Grand Valley, people there, so it's, always

around even though, that core group that I came out with have all kind of moved on.

There's quite a few of us out here now.

Can you briefly describe what it means to be an AD on a television show?

.So, it's similar in TV and film, but, typically while you'll have

your assistant directing department.

A lot of times you'll have three ADs, you'll have, maybe even four or more

depending on the size of the show, but the basic breakdown is, you know, you'll

have a first AD, in episodic television, sometimes you usually have two, so one is

prepping while the other one's shooting, and you kind of keep flopping, and you

each, you have a different director, and you go back and forth, then you'll have

a key second the first AD, what I've been doing, Largely is, get the script, break

it down into a schedule, what's the most efficient way of shooting this, however

many page schedule to keep it on budget.

Then through the whole prep period is kind of Fact finding.

you're taking meetings, with the director, and different department heads like

prop meetings, wardrobe meetings, maybe you're meeting with the stunt department

and doing stunt rehearsals and just really trying to, get all the questions

answered before you start shooting.

Once you're in shooting mode, it's just executing everything, and obviously

surprises come up and things change and.

Weather happens and all this stuff that you have to adjust, but, you try to go

into production with knowing as much as you can, and so the first AD is kind of

the right hand person of the, director, and then once you start shooting,

you're there trying to, make your day, you're the one saying rolling and, and,

sometimes cut, but you're bringing the cast in, you're anticipating what's

coming up next and just always trying to, Stay on target to make your days work.

I kind of think of it like, that mapping app called ways

where it's constantly rerouting.

It's like you, have the plan for your day, but as things come in and new

info, comes in, you have to kind of.

reroute and make decisions to keep going.

and then your, key second AD is usually the one that is kind of prepping the next

day and the next couple of days work, just getting ahead of things and dealing with

a lot of logistics of upcoming work and your second seconds usually on set with

the first and then helping set background and just helping the first make the day.

So that's kind of in a nutshell, the assistant directing department.

What would you say are some core skills that are essential to be a good AD?

The biggest thing is you've got to.

make decisions.

you've got to be able to, listen, and realize it's a,

collaborative, environment.

ultimately you're a problem solver, it's putting pieces of the puzzle together,

whether it's the schedule, or, we've got weather coming in tomorrow, how

do we redo this, or in this day and age, an actor now has COVID and

can't work, what's our plan B?

So it's anticipating, both the good and the bad and just being on top of, being

on top of a schedule and, just being proactive and getting things done.

With television , you go through a bunch of different directors

depending on the episode.

Would you say how UAD changes based on who the director is or

does it stay mainly the same?

well, I think, part of being the NAD is part of it's your personality, so there's

only so much you change, but different directors, do require different things.

All of them kind of work a little bit differently, especially when you're on

a series like I have where it's we've had multiple seasons and sometimes you

get a new director in who's completely new to the show Or even film crew

after they work together a bit, they have kind of their own shorthand and

their own kind of way of doing things.

It all looks the same from an outside observer, but there are little

differences you know like what the showrunner is going to like.

And so I've had some directors that I'm literally in prep, I'm

acting out the scenes with them.

we go.

Set by set, and we're just like, this person enters here, and I'll literally

be reading the script with them, trying to figure out the blocking.

some are, kind of, just poke their head in, okay, get the lay of the land,

and they'll, do it more in their head.

I kind of feed off of them, and their personality, and

how, much they need from me.

but, in television, it's a bit of a moving train, you know, it's like that

episode, there's an air date, it's gonna happen, and if the director, good or

bad, the show is gonna air, the rest of the crew is gonna rise up and, get

the episode made, so if, they're not prepared, the DP, the first AD, the,

writer, I you kind of, fill the void.

it's a little bit different when you're talking with film or the

director has more of the, final say, you know, it's their project.

Whereas in television, it's the writer.

and the director is more of a hired gun really to come in and as a guest,

basically, they're all sometimes you get a producer director who will direct

a good portion of the season, but is there every day to help guide some

of the newer directors to the show, but largely, they're kind of guests.

You've both directed and AD'd throughout your career.

how would you say being the AD has informed how you direct or vice versa?

well, the one thing that it does is because, as an AD, I'm hyper aware

of, the schedule and kind of the pace of the show, so when I'm directing,

I'm able to kind of get my shot list.

I can kind of structure them in a way that I can.

do it more efficiently.

So for example, Scene A, if I start in one direction and then turn around

looking the other direction, then I know that in scene B, I can start in that

same direction, or I know that I can combine those scenes and rhyme together.

So we're, saving the lighting setups, stuff like that, I would do as an AD

anyways, and recommend that to a director.

but when I'm directing, I can kind of just take that element out, because

I just, I know that's going to be the most efficient way to do things.

and then on the flip side of that being in the director's chair, and especially

being in the editing room and seeing what stays in and what gets cut, you

have a bigger appreciation of, when you should allow more time to a director

to finish a scene, or when you can be like, I think we've got enough.

We can move on and, say it with a bit more authority, I because

I've been in that position and I'm not just the nervous A.

D.

who's looking at us watching.

We need to move on.

We need to move on.

I, get a sense of, you know, what we need and what we don't

need a little bit better.

You mentioned that when you moved to LA you started off as a PA and then

you kind of worked your way up to assistant directing and directing.

Can you kind of talk about, what the process of that was like?

it's a very, tricky process to, join the Director's Guild, It's almost

easier to join as a director, do an independent film and become a signatory,

but to join and get in as an assistant director, there's a couple paths.

The one path is to try to get into the trainee program, which is something

they do every year, based in LA and New York, and they accept, 8, 10, 12

people to Become trainees and they put them on film sets or TV sets, as

a trainee, which is basically kind of like a PA position, slash AD position.

and then on the weekends are taking seminars and learning,

different parts of the industry.

that's one way and it's.

a faster way to get in, but it's hard to get into the program itself.

And the other way to do it is through, PA ing, but the tricky thing is, if you

accumulate 600 days of PA ing, set PA, and it has to be on certain things too.

has to be kind of like a DGA type of show, a film or TV show.

you can submit those, save all your paperwork, your call sheets, all that.

And you actually submit it to the New York side of the guild,

the contract services there.

And if they approve it, then you can join the guild, but you get in as a second AD.

A commercial 2nd AD based in New York, which obviously if you live in L.

A.

It doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's the way in.

so the next step is, for me, I was living in L.

A.

I could only Work on commercials or low budget agreements where they

could kind of have a waiver for me.

everything else had to be out of the state.

so either do 150 days.

As that AD, 75 of which have to be commercials, or you can just do 400

days, like a low budget film or out of town movie or something like that, and

then you resubmit, to the New York side, and they'll bump you up to a, commercial

first AD, which then you can come on to the Southern Cal list as a, Southern

California qualified, second AD.

I've already gotten way too in the weeds on this is very confusing.

happy to answer any listeners emails on how to further do this because it

is a very, very confusing process.

and that period from when you submit your P.

A.

days to when you're actually able to work in L.

A.

where a lot of you want to end up being to work.

It can be a very long process.

For me, it was three years and that was pretty good.

I was basically doing one movie out of town a year and, finding some commercial

work to kind of fill those additional requirements, but it's a tricky process.

Why did you decide to join the union?

I kind of got burned out a little bit on PAing at some point.

and then, I got called to work on, The Aviator Martin Scorsese as a PA and I

was like, well, I can't turn that down.

I mean, it's Martin Scorsese and then I end up working on Grand

(Torino), uh, no, it was a million dollar baby with Clint Eastwood.

So again, I can't, turn that down.

And ultimately what happened was some of the.

assistant directing department crews I was working with were, just fun to be

with and that they're still my friends.

We kind of all came up together.

And then one day I was closing in on the amount of days I needed to join.

So I said, well, you know what no one's going to hire me because they

just think of me as a PA anyways, but I'm just going to submit it all.

So I'm eligible just in case I get the random call that I can take the

work and make a little bit more money.

And then, basically I got a call and I've been working ever since.

So it worked out.

but it really became down to, I was just working with, good people and having fun.

And even if the project itself was difficult, not a great

project, We ourselves made it fun and had a good time doing it.

So, that's what really kept me going.

What's it like being able to see the work you help make?

Like on the big screen or on a television?

it is always fun.

I mean, that's part of the magic of it I remember even some of the stuff I PA'd

on, you know, going to see it in the movie theaters and, it's pretty rewarding

and then Young Sheldon, which is the one thing about working on a television

show, especially one that has done quite well, people know it, often when you're

working on a film, unless it's a Marvel movie or something like it hasn't been

released, obviously, and people don't know what it is, you know, so it's kind

of like that you could be doing anything.

I remember when I First worked on the horror movie, The Ring.

I was like, yeah, I'm working on a show called The Ring.

And people were like, oh, Lord of The Rings?

Like, not Lord of The Rings.

It's already out.

Like, I'm working on this thing called The Ring.

And now people know it, but at the time.

So that's a little frustrating.

So you don't get that as much with TV.

Although now there's so many TV series that it's hard to keep track.

. But it is nice to have that recognition of people actually

know what you're working on.

You talk a little bit about, your time on Young Sheldon and

how that's helped you grow.

I mean, this has been such a, wonderful experience We're in the middle of

season seven now, the final season.

I've been on it since episode two.

I didn't do the pilot, but I did the, the second episode one.

So it's the longest I've worked at any job, I think, including when

I worked at Target in high school.

I've never been consistently employed this long ' cause it's

essentially a freelancer's lifestyle.

it's been incredible it's a show that my kids like.

My mom likes, it's such a, broad appeal and the people I work with are just

fantastic and oftentimes I've experienced after a show goes on for so long people

can get complacent and people just are there, they want to collect a

paycheck and go home and, people can get grouchy and ready to move on to

the next thing, but, this cast and crew has been so lovely and it's like, it's,

a second family, you know, it's like, especially, you know, this, takes place

surrounding this, kid and his family.

And, when we started the, two youngest ones were nine and, and

now one's, taking driver's ed.

They're one 16 and the other one's about to be 16.

So it's it's my second family that I've grown up with.

So it's been special to work on as, Someone who likes, production also

just it's been on a human level just emotionally great just because

the people have become family.

So gonna be, a lot of tears shed in the last, couple episodes as we

film them and have to say goodbye.

are there any special considerations or things you had to consider as an AD

of a show with young children on it?

For one thing, there are, legal requirements in terms of hours they can

work, and different break times, and still get schooling in, so I think when

we started, the kids were at an age, from the moment their call time to the moment

we wrapped was eight and a half hours total, then you subtract, 30, 45 minutes

for them to get, ready in hair and makeup and wardrobe, and then you subtract an

hour for lunch, and then you Supposed to get three hours of schooling a day.

They each had their own teacher.

you're not really left with much actual time with them on set.

and in the early days, it was largely the show.

Revolved more around Sheldon.

So he is in a lot of scenes and since then we branched out and have B stories and

C stories, so we did a lot of tricks.

we'd have a stand in for him and rehearse with the stand in while he's in school.

he'd come to set, we'd kind of show him the mark and the

marks where he needed to be.

If one of the kids were not on screen, it wasn't their coverage.

They'd be in school.

We'd have a stand and reading off camera dialogue.

We toyed around with the photo double, which we use a couple of

times, but it gets a little tricky.

it just wasn't quite working out the way we, expected.

it really, it was those first couple of years, especially when the

hours were shorter, with them, it was pretty intense, I will admit.

and there were times I kind of called it, emergency lighting modes.

usually we'd come in at eight.

And so the kids would be done at five 30 and we'd have to turn around and a piece

of coverage at like five 15 or five 20.

And that was just like telling our DP emergency lighting mode.

We got to go and we'd get it done.

We'd get the shot and with seconds to spare and, make our day.

since then they've gotten a little bit older.

So the time constraints have loosened a little bit depending on their age, but,

the early days were tricky for sure.

This episode is brought to you by the Chuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship.

The fellowship was established by Chuck Peterson's family and friends to assist

upper level students in the film and video program at GVSU who are working

on creative projects that support the non profit sector in their community.

Kyle Macciome the 2020 recipient of that fellowship, describes the

benefits of the support he received.

When going through this fellowship, there are three separate parts

of yourself that I think get to experience a lot of development.

The first is as a student, because this is a learning process.

You get to learn how to work with a client on your own, independently,

out in the world, away from the classroom like you would in

something like producing for clients.

And the second one would be as a video maker, as a video producer, as someone

who has respect for the work that they're doing and wants to improve on

themselves and produce a final product that can be used out in the real world.

And then the third one would be as a citizen, you know, you're not making

video for an entertainment value or for some kind of commercial purpose.

It's for a nonprofit.

It's for a direct benefit in your community and being a citizen of that

community, understanding how you can directly impact and improve it, um,

is a really valuable experience that I think the fellowship teaches you to be

as, as a student, as a filmmaker, and as a citizen, all three of those things

are directly a part of this process that you get to learn and ask yourself.

How do I want to be seen and how do I want to act as these three roles?

For more information and to donate to the scholarship, visit

the link in the description.

Now back to the show.

Going back to something you've said in the previous question, what do

you think the key is to not become complacent when you're working

on such a long running project?

I mean, it's tough and I think it's depends on, what job you have in it.

I mean, as an AD for me, it's.

always something new.

I as the first AD, it's this nice balance of you get half of your time

in the production office and scouting and doing all that stuff for prep.

And then by the time that gets kind of boring and you're anxious, then

you're on the set and you're shooting.

And then by the time you're kind of tired of shooting, you're

back in the production office.

So , that's a nice balance that, It's pretty rare for a crew

member other than a first AD.

Sometimes you might have an alternating DP if it's a big enough show.

Some shows have better hours, some have longer hours.

And it can be more, grueling experience.

So, it's hard to give any specific tips.

But, if you love what you do and you, especially if it's a good project

that you believe in, which, we didn't always get to pick those or, know

if it's going to be a worthwhile project or not, that always helps too.

Moving away for a bit from your, television work, you also directed,

produced, and wrote your own independent film, Own Worst Enemy.

Can you talk a little bit about what that was like?

Yeah, that was great.

I was going into, I had a little hiatus between the second to last and last

season of Desperate Housewives, and I was going from a second AD, , bump up to

first AD that next year, we had about a two month hiatus, which was kind of tough

for me as an AD to really jump into any new job and then be able to break away.

So I, I told my wife, why don't we just make a movie?

we were kind of on a short time frame we thought about it before I was in hiatus.

So, there was a script that my Grand Valley roommate and friend Dan Peretti

and I had written years ago and we that was the the only one that we had sitting

around that was kind of low budget enough that we felt we could Get away with.

So my wife, Jessica and I did a rewrite on that and polish that up.

And then basically, as I was finishing up season six of Desperate Housewives,

I was trying to put the pieces together for this feature and trying to crew up.

And, my wife and I had produced, an indie film for another friend of ours a

couple years before, which had led into another indie feature that we produced.

for our friend Chris Cashman, called Carts, and then so we kind of, that

was kind of like our little filmmaking club that kept rolling, so we try

to bring a bunch of those folks back.

And then I was, in a good spot with like a lot of the, Desperate Housewives folks,

so they would, loan me gear and all that.

And Eva Longoria's makeup artist is like, I've got nothing going on.

I'll come do your makeup.

I was like, you're crazy, but okay.

I love it.

and so the hiatus, came about and we shot in like 13 days or something like that.

Just really run and gun.

it was, yeah, it was tiring.

Like, my name was on, the truck rental.

at the end of the day, I'm loading the truck and driving it home.

And, our oldest daughter, was, just, year and a half, two years.

Which, we were like, why didn't we do this before we had kids?

This is crazy.

And then, you know, edited at home and, and found some, some folks to,

help us in the post process, but it was very cathartic, it was something

we'd wanted to do for a long time.

And, the fact that it was, we did it, we had a screening and played in some

small festivals and it's out there on various random streaming services.

it was a great and project.

Do you have a favorite memory from that whole process?

I'm trying to think, I think it was maybe even day one or day two, we were filming

at our house at the time and we, had kids and so I brought some other kids

over I just remember like my wife and I, on our couch watching video village

with our, little baby, holding her, I'm like, the crew must think we're nuts.

Like we're at home, we're swaddling a baby.

They must think we're crazy and then, you know, I had this, vision that, the

shooting days would go really swimmingly well and we would, able to just, yeah,

we'll just wrap and we'll go pick, Eva up from daycare and clearly that

wasn't going to be the case and, just everything that happens in production.

So I was like, mom, you got to come out here.

I flew my mom out so she could help babysit for a couple of weeks.

our crew was maybe 10 or 12 people, it becomes almost a family affair and

everyone's kind of helping you grow and get there and, and people are bringing

ideas and coming up with some amazing stuff that you're just asking people to

do stuff with very little money, just the inventiveness of it is fantastic.

What's your biggest advice to someone who wants to make an independent film,

while balancing that with all the other crazy aspects of life you have to balance?

part of the thing that's Great nowadays the technology has become much more

accessible when I was at Grand Valley It was either, you're shooting on

really crappy video or very expensive film Now my iPhone is better quality

than the stuff I was filming there.

There's so much accessibility for that I think even just Getting out there

and shooting short films and then just doing whatever you can, to kind of flex

that muscle because at the end of the day, it's a craft and you just have

to keep working at it and, following it through the post and kind of seeing it.

It's all a learning process that.

you can read about But once you go through it and you kind of see

how that whole process works and you just keep building on that.

For me, it's, try to write a script that, you can accomplish, on a low budget,

if you don't have the money coming in, which nobody really does, because you

can end up spending a lot of time just chasing down the money, For me, with that

film, it's something that we can shoot.

We don't need, we have a few set pieces in that, but it's largely in our friends

homes, our home and, stuff like that.

Just stuff that we can accomplish, fairly cheaply and easily.

What are some of the main differences working on a studio

set versus an independent film set?

I was joking the other day, I saw something online People walking, bearing

some equipment saying hot points, points, points, and I feel like you

only hear that on low budget sets.

I think a professional set, someone always will just walk in front

and is like, Hey, we got something heavy coming through here, just

watch out, you know, and there's not a lot of screaming like that.

So, that's kind of the joke answer of it.

part of the thing with studio sets, if you have that money, I mean,

a I'm always amazed at how few.

Fast we can do things, but then I realize, you know, we have entire

rigging grip and electric crew that are pre rigging everything.

So by the time like we as the shooting crew walk on the set, they're not laying

cables and doing all these things that you have to do on an independent film.

once you wrap, those guys are taking 5, 10 minutes, maybe loading the truck

if they're on stage, you're kind of walking away and they're going home

and, you're largely on location.

So you're wrapping out of there, you're wrapping to the trucks,

you're coiling cables, you're doing all it's just, a lot more.

Time, to spend and people are in overtime.

So, your producer's wanting you to wrap early because they have

hour and a half to wrap to the trucks and get out of there, etc.

it's just those type of things that you come up against, in independent work

as opposed to bigger studio films.

I find your first part of that answer very funny because in my lighting class

last week, we were saying points to each other as we moved stuff around.

I've heard it coming up, and stuff.

I was reflecting on them.

Like, you don't really hear that on any of the sets I've been on recently.

it's always been on these indie films.

That's interesting.

So you have achieved something that so many of us dream of.

You have moved to LA and you're working consistently.

So what would your advice to be to someone who wants to move to LA?

Unfortunately I'm old enough now that I can say things were

different when I moved out here.

the biggest.

challenge I see now is just it's so expensive.

when I moved here in 2000, it was expensive in terms of coming from

Michigan, but it was still reasonable.

my first apartment, we got a four bedroom, two bath and the four of us

were all from Grand Valley and we each paid 350 a month, which was amazing.

So I think unless you know somebody out here or you have a trust fund, you really

need to find somebody to room with one or two people, just to make the housing,

largely cause it's a freelance situation.

You never quite know where your next paychecks coming from.

on top of that, there's a bit of a culture shock of just coming to a big.

City like this.

That's much different than, anywhere in Michigan.

so that doesn't appeal to everybody.

the first year I was out here, I got hired on a few things, but a large

amount of it was like day playing stuff.

I would get called for a couple of days here and a day there.

And it was, exciting because I'm going to different films and stuff and kind

of frustrating because it was just kind of just so piecemeal But at the end

of you know, those first couple years until I really got staffed on a film It

was like, oh, okay, but I met so many people and that's where the calls started

coming in because especially the P.

A.

Positions that you're one entry level position that's not union,

so it's easier one to get into.

And a lot of times you're on a movie, Oh, we need a couple more PAs that day.

Cause we got more extras or whatever, who do you know who's not working?

So, a lot of times it's like, Oh, I just met this guy, Mike on

this, thing I did last week.

I'll call him.

And the next thing you know, you're working on that set and you're

meeting that staff and those people.

So that's kind of like where a lot of the jobs come in and putting yourself out

there and saying yes to opportunities,

what advice do you have for students who want to direct or AD in the future?

for directing, just keep shooting stuff.

I would say, even if you're not a writer, find someone who is a writer.

And even if it's a short, shoot it.

I would, look beyond just your kind of peer group for actors

and try to find maybe some local.

theater actors or something in the, area to work with just to kind of get

out of your comfort zone a little bit.

a lot of people recommend taking as a director, just taking an acting

class just to kind of see the other side of it, which is good advice.

I've never done it, but I think it would be helpful.

because you get directors of all types with some that are like very techie

and into the camera work and all that.

And some that just Maybe come from a theater background or loved working with

cast and actors and not so savvy with a camera That's my advice for directors

ad'ing.

It's kind of in many ways a thankless position I mean, no one comes to film

school saying I want to be a first A.D.

Typically, I'd even know what one was when I started Grand Valley.

So I think There's always people shooting films and someone needs to

schedule them and take on some of that responsibility from the director in terms

of when did the cast show up and how long before we need them in this scene?

so I don't think there's any, way you wouldn't be able to, at

least volunteer as an AD, get some experience under your belt.

and, there's not as big of a non union world.

Out here, much, anymore There used to be kind of like, I did some non

union camera AC work and stuff like that, but it's now there's so many low

budget agreements with the unions to keep their folks employed, which makes

sense, but that used to be kind of a way into kind of a breeding ground in

the industry as well, just cutting your teeth on some of these non union films.

There's still like a lot of horror films like that that are non union.

Out of curiosity, what was it that made you realize, like, Oh, being

an AD is maybe the role for me?

Because I know you mentioned that wasn't something you even knew

existed when you first started.

Well, with every level when you PA, you're part of the assistant

directing department, so you get a little bit of experience.

I mean a lot of the early jobs were like You'd be stuck in extras holding,

getting the extras ready, and signed in and signed out, and through the

lunch line and all that stuff, and that's not really fascinating work.

But then the closer I got to actual, AD work, and like, kind of the scheduling,

and then even just setting the background, and on set, the extras, and giving

them background stories, and stuff to really flesh out the scene, that helped.

You know, that's a bit of the creative part of the job.

And then getting into, the scheduling and even just doing the call sheet as

a second AD, that all, appealed to, a problem solving, part of my brain that I

enjoy, you know, just fixing the puzzle.

and even now, I'll get some, it's dependent on the script.

Some scripts, I break it down, and it all kind of falls into place rather naturally.

And some, they're just, very tricky in how to schedule it the best way,

You can really schedule yourself into some really bad days on set.

One of the first jobs I did is the first AD on Desperate Housewives.

I was very confident that we could make this one location day within

our allotted time, and of course we had a couple technical delays.

But we ended up going really, really late.

And I remember looking at the producer and saying, well, how many more days like this

do I have before I'm no longer the first?

And he said, not too many.

So, I quickly learned how important, that scheduling process is.

triggers some part of my brain that I enjoy, that problem solving aspect of it.

My final question for you is, what is some advice you wish you had

known when you were younger?

be patient, you know, your, your career isn't made overnight.

I think I came out here with a head full of steam thinking I would,

you know, be doing great things earlier on and it was all fine.

but had I known, it's going to take a little time to like really,

To kind of be comfortable where I'm at, and that would have been nice.

I think be prepared to work hard and put in long hours.

production can be very, grueling at times, depending on the show.

I've done movies that are, did a movie that was a party, a teen

party movie, and it was like six weeks of night work on location.

So it was sleeping all day, working all night.

And, it's like there's your life for those six weeks, and then sometimes, I would

say not getting a job can be a good thing.

I mean, you're going to go on a lot of interviews, and sometimes oftentimes

you won't, get a job for whatever reason, and, sometimes that, in

hindsight, that'll be the better.

Way to have gone about it and just on the note of, , getting jobs, and interviewing.

It's the two biggest things is one, just have a very clean resume, have a

very readable resume and to always just research who you're going in to meet.

If you're meeting with some AD's if you're meeting with a producer,

production company, just, quick Google search, see what else they've worked on.

just don't go in kind of blind.

just do your research before you go into that.

It's even that someone now who hires ADs and PAs, I'm amazed at how many people.

Come into the interview and just kind of waltz in and just don't know a thing, you

know, especially on something like this, where a Young Sheldon, a popular show.

We've been on the air for years.

I'm not expecting everyone to see every episode, but, you know, watch, a clip

or two, you know, get to know the show a little bit before you come in to

interview to be on the show, you know?

So do your research.

It's my other tip.

Thanks for coming on the show.

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