00:00:07:21 - 00:00:38:01
Tom
My thing about Dadvice is this. it's that after someone dies, not much remains of them, but one of the things that does stick around is the things that they said. Some of the things that are the nice things you remember of the not so nice things you remember too, but one thing maybe you don't quite remember, because it's just something you do, is the advice they gave you, and that's just something you carry with you the whole way.

00:00:38:03 - 00:00:44:11
Tom
So, rich. Yeah. Tell me about some dad vice. But your dad gave you.

00:00:44:13 - 00:01:13:23
Rich
Well, see, this is where the format of this episode falls down instantly. Because we've decided to start with you asking me for some advice, and I'll be honest, I've got nothing. It's in there. I'm 100% sure it's in there. My dad has given me plenty of advice, but I can't remember it. It's one of those things that I wish I'd written down every time he said something wise or useful, but currently none of it is up here.

00:01:13:23 - 00:01:31:04
Rich
The only bit of advice I can remember him saying regularly, which I don't think has applied at any point in my adult life, but it was something he used to shout very passionately. It was don't kick to the French, don't.

00:01:31:04 - 00:01:32:08
Tom
Kick the French.

00:01:32:08 - 00:01:40:14
Rich
Don't kick the French. Yeah. He was very passionate about never ever kicking to the French. He'd say this normally whilst watching an international rugby match.

00:01:40:14 - 00:01:42:02
Tom
Rugby. Yeah, yeah.

00:01:42:04 - 00:02:00:07
Rich
And he would say no matter like I don't know why specifically the French should not be kicked to. But he was adamant. Never don't ever. If anyone if he's watching and people kick to the French he would be like don't. What do I always say? Don't do that.

00:02:00:09 - 00:02:12:01
Tom
Well, obviously. obviously like in a rugby context, in that kind of almost similar to American football, isn't it? In an American football situation it would have been similar, don't kick to the French.

00:02:12:03 - 00:02:16:08
Rich
he wouldn't have dignified American football as a sport. I don't think he was.

00:02:16:08 - 00:02:24:04
Tom
He was very wondering how far it does n't kick in to the French function. Is this exclusively in the rugby context? Well, I think outside of it.

00:02:24:06 - 00:02:29:07
Rich
This is the thing in my adult life, I have never catered to the French.

00:02:29:09 - 00:02:31:00
Tom
You've never kicked the French?

00:02:31:02 - 00:02:32:01
Rich
Not one time.

00:02:32:03 - 00:02:35:00
Tom
I've kicked the French. I've kept the French. Yeah.

00:02:35:01 - 00:02:37:18
Rich
What happens when you keep to the French? Because I've been told not to do that.

00:02:37:20 - 00:02:44:16
Tom
When I was a kid, there was this, This kid Alex, who is a French exchange student.

00:02:44:18 - 00:02:45:09
Rich
Right.

00:02:45:11 - 00:02:55:23
Tom
And he was eating football with us at lunch time, and I think I can remember fairly clearly kicking a, you know, it's tennis ball. You'd play it on the playground.

00:02:55:23 - 00:02:56:19
Rich
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:57:00 - 00:03:05:02
Tom
And I can fairly clearly remember kicking. Kicking to the French and next to cooler kicks. Pick up the pass.

00:03:05:04 - 00:03:06:03
Rich
That's what worked out. Well.

00:03:06:03 - 00:03:14:07
Tom
It does stick with it. And I think you know I certainly don't think anything bad immediately came up with I don't remember. Maybe we immediately conceded.

00:03:14:09 - 00:03:23:11
Rich
So I mean it's not it can't be that piece of catch all advice. Because a huge amount of Arsenal success in the late 90s is based exclusively on kicks to the French.

00:03:23:13 - 00:03:30:06
Tom
Well, indeed. And the French World Cup team came very close to winning and they were basically almost exclusively kicking to the French.

00:03:30:06 - 00:03:54:17
Rich
Yeah, well they did win it, didn't they? They win it. the one before last. And they were kicking to the French for most of the tournament. If anything, that was French kicking going on. I don't know, I think outside of, I think in rugby, in, in sport, rugby specifically you don't keep to the French. Yeah. In life as a sort of because if this is the one for myself I can remember this.

00:03:54:17 - 00:03:57:00
Tom
Is all I got from your dad. So we've really been eating out.

00:03:57:00 - 00:04:13:05
Rich
But yeah, I don't know in what scenario I would be tempted to just day to day kick something to not just a French person, but this the nation of France.

00:04:13:07 - 00:04:14:17
Tom
Yeah.

00:04:14:19 - 00:04:20:08
Rich
I don't know in what scenario I would be tempted to do that or what would happen if I did.

00:04:20:09 - 00:04:26:15
Tom
It is this sort of in a, in a, in like in a television context. I mean, if he was watching Eurovision.

00:04:26:17 - 00:04:27:07
Rich
Yeah.

00:04:27:09 - 00:04:48:03
Tom
And they were saying and that's, that's the schools there and, and you know, wow. England is doing badly. oh, now we're going to get the numbers from the French correspondent in Paris, which your dad had been screaming at on TV. No. Don't kick. So the French I yeah, I suppose.

00:04:48:03 - 00:04:48:12
Rich
In that.

00:04:48:15 - 00:04:49:05
Tom
In that way.

00:04:49:11 - 00:04:57:09
Rich
Potentially. and sort of because that's a phrase that people will just kick to. Oh yeah. We kick these guys.

00:04:57:11 - 00:04:58:02
Tom
To me it's very.

00:04:58:02 - 00:05:02:11
Rich
It's very casual Eurovision, isn't it. we'll just kick to the French.

00:05:02:17 - 00:05:11:03
Tom
Kick to the Italians. I think if your revision isn't cancelled and Eurovision is doing something very wrong, I don't think they're right to be serious.

00:05:11:05 - 00:05:32:08
Rich
Yeah, that is true. I don't know what his opinion of that would have been. And that's one of the great tragedies of losing your father without being able to clarify the important points. You know, had he had he had had more warning that he was going to go, I could have gone to him and said, well, what do you mean when you say, don't kick to the French?

00:05:32:14 - 00:05:36:22
Tom
Yeah, yeah. Elucidate it at all. Yeah.

00:05:36:24 - 00:05:49:00
Rich
but instead that will just haunt me until we're reunited in a past life or or we do what we've been hoping to do on this podcast for a long time. And finally, contact the medium.

00:05:49:02 - 00:05:49:15
Tom
Yeah, we'll.

00:05:49:15 - 00:05:52:09
Rich
Get and get our dads on the podcast. And then if.

00:05:52:11 - 00:05:56:11
Tom
If we do have a medium on, then we will have to ask her or him.

00:05:56:11 - 00:05:58:00
Rich
Yeah.

00:05:58:02 - 00:06:07:20
Tom
to can, can they just, you know, tell you that. Oh then can, can the medium just tell you to ask your dad. What about what was it about talking to the French? Yeah.

00:06:07:21 - 00:06:13:03
Rich
Yeah, yeah. Did your dad have any? No, no, they.

00:06:13:05 - 00:06:19:18
Tom
Loaded it by. So much advice. I'm starting to think now that my dad was just an advice hound. So how do you, how do you do it?

00:06:19:19 - 00:06:30:16
Rich
Remember these things that you're that are happening in your life on a daily basis, where you go and I'll remember dad said, oh, I don't do this because dad told me not to or.

00:06:30:18 - 00:06:44:23
Tom
Well, that's that. I mean, yeah, though, I mean, yeah, to be fair. Yeah, basically. I mean, let's go with the simple advice. always have your wallet, keys and phone in your pockets and tap those pockets before leaving the house.

00:06:45:00 - 00:06:45:15
Rich
This is right.

00:06:45:20 - 00:07:03:24
Tom
Classic dad advice. You used to get very frustrated at me for forgetting my keys when leaving home when I was like 13. You get very frustrated and say what you are doing and specifically say before you leave, tap your pockets. And then when he would come to pick me up from my mum's house, literally stopping me in the doorway, tapped pockets.

00:07:03:24 - 00:07:22:17
Tom
Have you got your phone? If you want it. If you got your keys. Yep yep yep. Right. Then we can go at really instilling that. I mean that is clear advice and I do that now before I leave the flat I will tap those pockets. Yep yep yep. Great. I've got three. worse than can happen now is it's the wrong keys.

00:07:22:19 - 00:07:24:24
Rich
Do you think of him when you do it?

00:07:25:01 - 00:07:39:13
Tom
Is it like I don't think of him when I do it? But it's interesting because it's a thing that I always do. So it is something that he's instilled in me to do. So yeah, it is a bit like he's got his hand on my shoulder, you know, and saying, tap your.

00:07:39:15 - 00:07:42:00
Rich
Hand in your pockets. That's what he's got.

00:07:42:02 - 00:08:07:09
Tom
Well, I don't like taking my dad's hands in my pockets, but it's certainly a reminder that I have to have those things. But there are much bigger bits of advice my dad gave me as well. It's not just the manual pocket check. one of the things he told me, and this really was the inspiration for this episode.

00:08:07:11 - 00:08:35:10
Tom
when I was younger, I remember very specifically him saying to me, well, I've written this down as best as I could remember. It. If you have nothing in common with someone, you'll probably have football in common with them. This is a very English thing, but obviously, if you're American professional sports in general, you know, if you have nothing in common with them, maybe with the NFL or NBA or basketball, just imagine if you've nothing in common with someone, you'll probably have sports in common with them.

00:08:35:12 - 00:08:42:18
Tom
I think that was the hub of what he was saying. And Rich, that is how we became friends. It is.

00:08:42:20 - 00:09:07:23
Rich
That's essentially the reason that this podcast exists because we met. We, I think it was at one of those fairly awkward meetings with all the people you university with. Yeah, everyone's nervous and doesn't know how they're being perceived. And then we sat next to each other and it was probably awkward to start with. And then you ask me what football team was voted, and away we go.

00:09:08:00 - 00:09:09:04
Tom
There we go.

00:09:09:06 - 00:09:10:05
Rich
Ten years later.

00:09:10:07 - 00:09:17:10
Tom
Now we can talk forever about that. And that's fine because there's always more football that you can talk about. That's what's good about football.

00:09:17:12 - 00:09:21:18
Rich
The World Cup every four years in France and every time they'll get it next time.

00:09:21:20 - 00:09:43:17
Tom
Who are we going to sign? It's always something to talk about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and I have to say, there've been so many times during my life where I have fallen. I mean, with that, that was a lot like that. Often it was like, oh, let's just talk about football because I'll tell you about it. But, you know, the reason I got into football was him saying that I wasn't interested when I was, you know, sort of.

00:09:43:17 - 00:09:43:22
Tom
Hey.

00:09:43:22 - 00:09:46:10
Rich
Oh, really? So that was sort of a conscious decision.

00:09:46:12 - 00:09:52:09
Tom
And I was like, oh, I better go into football then, because it seems like that's something to talk about. And, you know, well.

00:09:52:11 - 00:10:07:12
Rich
It makes it a strange bit of advice. So in that case, from your dad, if you didn't like football to say if you've got nothing in common with someone, you'll have football in common. And you're like, well, we won't, because I don't like football. He's like, no, but if you learn to like football, then you'll have that in common with someone else.

00:10:07:14 - 00:10:29:01
Tom
Trying to analyse it. I think I was probably, you know, like eight is old. So I was probably saying something like, he was like, what? You should watch football. And I would say, oh, why, why, why should I watch football? What reason is there to watch? Football was the point. And that's what he came up with as a reason, which is such a good reason.

00:10:29:03 - 00:10:46:15
Tom
I mean, it's so much better than any other reason to engage in professional sports, because you can talk to people about it and you set yourself then then you can talk to people that you have nothing in common with big, you know, big, bigger boys in school, the ones who've got muscles and sort of radios. You can talk to them about football, you know.

00:10:46:18 - 00:10:47:05
Tom
Yeah.

00:10:47:05 - 00:11:09:05
Rich
Or smaller boys who don't have radios. You can talk to anyone. That's actually something that my, my, my partner has is not to take it off from your dad. I don't think she ever met your dad, but she has said almost exactly that to me in the past. Where her job as part of it involves forming relationships with people.

00:11:09:05 - 00:11:28:23
Rich
She's a producer, so she has to sort of quite quickly put people at ease and form some kind of connection. And she learned about football for exactly that reason, because when she started, she was like, it's a shorthand into basically a sense of ease and a sense of rapport with most men, at least in this country, if you say what teenagers for.

00:11:29:04 - 00:11:49:03
Rich
And if you know a bit about football, you can talk about it or just ask them questions and they can talk about it. Everyone's relaxed, everyone's having a great time. So it's really very, so it sounds quite surface level, but it's actually quite good, solid life advice that it's dad voice.

00:11:49:05 - 00:12:11:09
Tom
It's classic advice for me. It's actually quite deep. It actually holds a lot of weight and has probably been the best bit of advice you ever gave me. Yeah, it certainly stuck with me. And, it's certainly something that I'll tell my kids as well. I'll be like, no, no, we are going to watch football because this is going to help you out, even if it's, you know, it doesn't matter.

00:12:11:09 - 00:12:21:14
Tom
You know, it can be a local team. It can be the Lionesses, it can be Liverpool. You know it doesn't matter. It's like yeah, watch football and engage in it because this will help you out later on.

00:12:21:16 - 00:12:25:02
Rich
Or if nothing else, then we'll have something to talk about then.

00:12:25:04 - 00:12:35:24
Tom
Yeah. We can talk about that. No. They'll be listening to what they're going to be. We'll get them strength in professional wrestling, and we'll be fine. We'll be fine.

00:12:36:01 - 00:12:44:08
Rich
Did you not give you any more sort of serious overarching philosophical advice?

00:12:44:10 - 00:13:08:10
Tom
Yeah. He said when you drink. Yeah, that'll don't don't drink it. It's over. You'll all brush your teeth. Right. Drink it just like that. Where it's just over your top teeth. Like when someone punched the bottom of the bottle. You know, you knock out your top teeth rather.

00:13:08:12 - 00:13:12:09
Rich
Very interesting use of the word when they're rather than if.

00:13:12:11 - 00:13:13:18
Tom
Yeah.

00:13:13:20 - 00:13:45:14
Rich
That shows that I think that specific choice of word really sheds a huge amount of light onto your just. Or his opinion of you, possibly somebody will punch you in the face at some point, and you've got to take steps to protect yourself. I think the, the, maybe the better advice from a father would be, you know, try and try and live a life where people don't want to.

00:13:45:16 - 00:13:47:03
Tom
Punch you.

00:13:47:05 - 00:13:54:14
Rich
In the face, rather than try and minimise the damage that they'll do when inevitably they do lash out.

00:13:54:16 - 00:14:10:20
Tom
And smash a button. So I guess it was kind of like a pub thing. I don't know if you'd ever seen that happen more, or or what I imagine he must. It must have been something that he'd seen occur. I know that his dad lost, like, all of his teeth.

00:14:10:22 - 00:14:12:24
Rich
And this is making sense.

00:14:13:01 - 00:14:38:19
Tom
When he was younger. And the story I was told from my grandma is that my grandad fell over and smashed his. His open mouth, kind of smashed his teeth on the curb, and it kind of smashed him up. And dentistry was such back then, but they just went, just got rid of them. Here's some dentures. That's you.

00:14:38:21 - 00:14:39:09
Tom
Yeah.

00:14:39:11 - 00:14:40:21
Rich
Yeah.

00:14:40:23 - 00:14:54:13
Tom
so. And I know my dad also had quite bad teeth, so I think he was kind of. It was certainly a thing in his head. Right as well. but I would rather get knocked out by someone holding it out.

00:14:54:15 - 00:14:56:18
Rich
I think that goes for almost everyone. But it's.

00:14:56:22 - 00:14:59:08
Tom
Going to happen because he said when it happened.

00:14:59:08 - 00:15:06:14
Rich
Was wet, pretty much when all the image of you and your grandfather falling open mouthed on to a.

00:15:06:16 - 00:15:09:05
Tom
Place, absolutely.

00:15:09:05 - 00:15:11:22
Rich
Get the logistics of that image into my head.

00:15:12:00 - 00:15:12:12
Tom
I know what I'm.

00:15:12:12 - 00:15:16:19
Rich
Saying on the way down, but I had his hands in his pockets.

00:15:16:21 - 00:15:18:17
Tom
Like how just.

00:15:18:19 - 00:15:20:11
Rich
How would you thank me?

00:15:20:13 - 00:15:47:22
Tom
The thing is, I guess the real problematic part of this is it obviously wasn't that. But that obviously isn't what happens doesn't make any sense? but I never found myself in a situation to actually ask someone what actually happened. Yeah, yeah, I have a couple of aunts who are, you know, my dad, sisters. So I could ask them and try and try and get to the bottom of the teeth gates at that gate.

00:15:47:24 - 00:15:50:13
Rich
I think we would all like an answer.

00:15:50:15 - 00:16:06:02
Tom
so I'll, I'll, maybe I'll update if, you know, if this is something you need the answer to. do at us on Instagram at our dad's death and I'll, I'll look into it, but I'm not. I'm not doing it unless it's something people actually want to find out, because otherwise it's a weird message to send. You aren't, aren't you?

00:16:06:02 - 00:16:09:24
Tom
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Why? Why didn't I grind out any teeth? It's difficult.

00:16:10:02 - 00:16:20:15
Rich
Potentially. It's going to open a real can of worms because there's a, there's a very high chance that she'll come back and tell you the story that you've already been told, at which point you have to challenge her.

00:16:20:17 - 00:16:21:19
Tom
Yeah, I, I, I.

00:16:21:19 - 00:16:43:14
Rich
Don't, I don't believe. And I think we're going to see a link to that. The truth of that story and your dad's advice, I think I, I think what happened is that your dad saw his dad get a bottle plunged into his face, stuck with him.

00:16:43:16 - 00:16:47:23
Tom
There's a chance. There's a chance. That's all I'm saying.

00:16:48:00 - 00:17:23:17
Rich
That's you. The kind of advice that you get from your dad is not words, but actions. And it it's. You see something your father does and you go, yes, that's how that's how I'm going to do things. Yeah, that's how I'll live my life. Yeah. Some good, some bad. I'm pretty sure that the way that my dad chopped vegetables was incredible, I think it puts your fingers at more risk than they need to be.

00:17:23:19 - 00:17:25:20
Rich

00:17:25:22 - 00:17:28:24
Tom
But you think it's. Well, it was very.

00:17:29:01 - 00:17:50:19
Rich
From what I remember it. They were all. They were all involved. like, it wasn't sort of just holding it with the thumb, and I. I seem to remember him chopping a carrot. What? 0504 fingers and one son were all as close to the blade as I could physically be, as he chops along with the length of the carrots.

00:17:50:21 - 00:17:59:05
Rich
which seems needlessly high risk, but it is something that for a while I had to sort of teach myself not to do. Oh, you.

00:17:59:07 - 00:18:00:21
Tom
A dangerous method.

00:18:00:23 - 00:18:17:09
Rich
Yeah, because I learned it from, say, my dad. Just like driving my dad, he used to take me out and sort of take me on little driving lessons, but, I'd also seen him drive, and I had to kind of go, don't drive like that.

00:18:17:11 - 00:18:19:13
Tom
Because famously, he did it. Knees up.

00:18:19:15 - 00:18:24:15
Rich
He did it. Knees only. Yeah. Hands free driving is.

00:18:24:17 - 00:18:47:20
Tom
It's not the way I deal. It's not the way. I do have a bit of light on advice from my dad, which was similar. It wasn't advice he gave me, it was something he did that I think was very smart. He had a very good job. and he said his actual advice in this realm was always have a job, very specific advice, always have a job.

00:18:47:22 - 00:19:04:23
Tom
You always wanna have a job. Have a job. Make it always one job, mate. You always want that job. and, you know, every job I ever got, he was like, yeah, good on you, mate. Get on. You get on your son. Get on your mate. Well, I worked at Thorntons and as a chocolatier, selling chocolates.

00:19:04:23 - 00:19:30:02
Tom
He, it was get get I get on you get. I made you a lot of stuff and, and that keitel's throughout. He was very much. You must always have a job. That's, What? He himself always had a job. And he found it very stressful. And he ultimately quit his very stressful job. from Mr. Always have a job.

00:19:30:04 - 00:19:38:08
Tom
He quit his very stressful job. And in place to, took up with it a year off.

00:19:38:10 - 00:19:39:04
Rich
Right.

00:19:39:06 - 00:20:06:13
Tom
He was sort of in his best, Vodka? no. No, either. If you're in this vast, you know, what's in football? the dream. But ultimately, he got a job, from being a regional manager of a parcel delivery company to being a parcel delivery driver. A white van man. as he started, and indeed, as he ended.

00:20:06:15 - 00:20:20:17
Tom
And that's pretty good advice, really, isn't it? Have a stressful job until you think you know what? Just gonna. I'm just gonna drive around delivering parcels.

00:20:20:19 - 00:20:42:11
Rich
It's an impressive lack of ego as well. I'd say to have been quite high up in, in an industry and then to sort of drop further down in the industry because it makes your life better, because it makes you happier. That's really good advice, I think. So not to not go, I'll have to be the top achiever, have to be the top of this industry.

00:20:42:13 - 00:20:45:03
Rich
It's real , it's like a work life balance thing.

00:20:45:03 - 00:20:49:23
Tom
Can you imagine like your boss, like your senior boss, like imagine whoever your boss's boss's boss is.

00:20:50:00 - 00:20:50:16
Rich
Yeah.

00:20:50:18 - 00:21:04:20
Tom
You the listener. Can you imagine your boss's boss's boss just quitting their job and just doing your job because it's easier then life is better? Can you imagine that happening? Because. Because I don't think most people can imagine that. Happily.

00:21:04:22 - 00:21:10:01
Rich
And what was he happier with with the delivery driver, Jeff Cantley happy?

00:21:10:03 - 00:21:25:24
Tom
Significantly happier. It's like it became so much easier with all the stress when he was just working hours and didn't have to be on his phone, on his emails, you know, weekends, holidays. He would have to look at his phone, wouldn't that many. But when we did, he didn't look at his phone.

00:21:26:01 - 00:21:52:10
Rich
So funny, isn't it? I think it's not a message. You get very often nowadays I think, the sort of work, the idea of working and being successful and sort of hard work as a virtue and success as the main thing that you should strive for, is quite commonplace in most of society now, or at least it feels like that.

00:21:52:12 - 00:21:52:21
Rich
yeah.

00:21:52:21 - 00:21:55:01
Tom
Now it's like, don't just have one job, have two jobs.

00:21:55:04 - 00:22:29:15
Rich
Yeah, you've got a hustle, you've got a grind. And it's, to what end? I think anything that makes you obviously have a job and working hard is important for life because you need money and you need to be able to survive and maybe provide for other people. But beyond that, if something if you're doing something that doesn't make you happy and you can do something that does make you happy, that is less glamorous or less high ranked to it, man, that's definitely better.

00:22:29:17 - 00:22:51:24
Rich
It's something that I kind of think about with my dad. Is that because he did. He was a very hardworking man, very successful in the fact that he, you know, was a GP and worked very hard and had a very stressful but also important job. You really do have to pay attention as a GP.

00:22:52:01 - 00:23:17:22
Rich
you can't, can't afford to get that one wrong. But he also was. I think he did that job because he cared about it and because he wanted to provide, but he always looked forward to retirement. He was always like he was ready to take that step just as soon as he got to 60, he was like, I'm knocking it on the head, and I'm not doing that ever again.

00:23:18:02 - 00:23:36:15
Rich
I'm not like some people who keep going back and they advise or they teach or whatever. And he was like, no, no, the second I can retire, I'm out of there and I am just spending time with my wife and my family. And that's one of the big sadnesses of his life. And my life is that he never made it there.

00:23:36:17 - 00:23:39:22
Rich
Yet he was five years away and he never got.

00:23:39:22 - 00:23:53:14
Tom
And a lot of GP's retire early as well. I mean, that's a significant problem we have in the economy as a lot of GP's are retiring early in the UK. Yeah, so he could have done that, had that on the table.

00:23:53:16 - 00:23:57:03
Rich
Yeah. I mean he was going to retire at 60 which is still you know.

00:23:57:03 - 00:24:00:04
Tom
Oh right. Yeah. Sorry. Davis.

00:24:00:06 - 00:24:18:20
Rich
He was yeah. 55 when he died. Agonisingly close. And he I remember my mum saying that like a friend of hers died and he said apparently quite a lot. He's like, I don't want that to be me. I don't want to die before I get to enjoy retirement. And he did.

00:24:18:22 - 00:24:20:05
Tom
That's a spicy meatball.

00:24:20:10 - 00:24:21:13
Rich
Holy shit. Yeah.

00:24:21:18 - 00:24:26:07
Tom
You're telling me your dad specifically said he didn't want to die before retirement?

00:24:26:07 - 00:24:30:08
Rich
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe so.

00:24:30:10 - 00:24:51:05
Tom
stupid fucking thing to say. It's like most say he tempted fate. He turned to fate, right? I've never heard of tempting fate on a scale like this before. I'm happy to die. Just not before retirement. Come on, guys, Jesus Christ threw some salt everywhere. I don't know if your shoulders get it around the house.

00:24:51:07 - 00:25:05:21
Rich
I mean, I guess it's sort of a tough one to eat. Yeah, it's one of the things that you probably don't need. I think you can take it as a given. I'd be surprised if you said to me, no, I specifically want to die for retirement.

00:25:05:23 - 00:25:15:07
Tom
Yeah. You don't need a set. Exactly. You don't need to say it. It's assumed that in an ideal world, you'd die sometime after retirement, just before dementia sets in.

00:25:15:09 - 00:25:16:22
Rich
That would be. That would be best.

00:25:16:22 - 00:25:29:13
Tom
The time. Let's call it eights after retirement. Pre dementia. That's good for me. Yeah. That's happy 75. I'll probably make it to 60 but that's fine.

00:25:29:15 - 00:25:30:15
Rich
Yeah.

00:25:30:17 - 00:26:04:02
Tom
There is another thing that my dad always said to me and this is something he said in my later life, and it's something which I have held on to quite tightly. and that sounds like it's going to be more serious than it is this serious in a way, he said, some may get what you want to do right when you've moved house, what you want to do is you want to get yourself a cafe, a castle.

00:26:04:02 - 00:26:17:05
Tom
You want to get yourself a cafe, get yourself a cafe, a cafe, to, nonmember. It's listening. The French famously shut for good.

00:26:17:05 - 00:26:21:01
Rich
So side kick into the French mystery through this podcast.

00:26:21:03 - 00:26:48:12
Tom
Jesus Christ, if it's a life. It's advice your dad gave. Kick it to the friends first opportunity you got. It's a nightmare. yeah. sorry. pardon? What? can't think of the French for kicking the sin of a mind. he he said. My dad said to me, get yourself a local cafe, a local cafe.

00:26:48:14 - 00:27:18:07
Tom
He was obsessed with the idea that you move somewhere and you live somewhere. You have a little local place where they know you really well. right. And you go there for food. And is this a cafe? And I kind of tell you, it doesn't sound like much, but, but it's really interesting because his local cafe, a little place called Olive's in Bournemouth.

00:27:18:09 - 00:27:27:13
Tom
He was very well known there, I suppose, partly because he had a year off of work in which I guess he was just always going in his vest. Yeah.

00:27:27:15 - 00:27:30:22
Rich
so ordering a bottle of vodka and asking for the footballer.

00:27:30:24 - 00:27:54:23
Tom
They loved him. but even subsequently, you know, since he's died, I'll go down there and I'm actually, as we record this, we're going to go down to Bournemouth this weekend. we'll go do olives. We'll go there, you know, as it kind of is because we did gather quite a lot of my dad's. It's got a routine to it, but they know us as well now, but they know us, they remember me.

00:27:55:00 - 00:28:12:16
Tom
And that's kind of really strange. So it's got a kind of charm that does have an odd kind of charm to it. So I think it was something that when he would always say it, I kind of thought, what's the point? But now I think I'm starting to understand the point of it, which is that it's got a legacy to it.

00:28:12:18 - 00:28:19:16
Rich
Yeah. And it's, you know, it basically just means make some friends, get to know the community doesn't.

00:28:19:16 - 00:28:21:16
Tom
Is that what he said?

00:28:21:16 - 00:28:34:06
Rich
Yeah, yeah. Get out there and meet the people that live near you. Have you ever taken that advice? Did you move countries not that long ago, moved up to Glasgow? so Kath.

00:28:34:08 - 00:28:56:08
Tom
We did that in. Yeah. I mean yeah. He won't be happy about that. we did. He loved it in London because in London we were right in Walthamstow, right by these cafes called Deja Vu. And there were like two of them, brilliant. Right. That's great. So, yeah. and then they had like,

00:28:56:10 - 00:29:01:10
Tom
like a common, but it was, it was like a barbecue place would have just called Deja Moo and I think. Right. Okay.

00:29:01:12 - 00:29:02:10
Rich
yeah. Less good.

00:29:02:10 - 00:29:06:09
Tom
Days of days up for two days. Our food I thought was really good.

00:29:06:10 - 00:29:07:24
Rich
That's really good.

00:29:08:01 - 00:29:31:09
Tom
But, we, Nightmare for trying to meet someone. aside from that. Yeah. So he loved that. And he came to London and we took him there to the local cafe, as he requested. so. Fine. All above board in Glasgow. My local cafe is a Starbucks.

00:29:31:11 - 00:29:34:15
Rich
yeah. That's not that's not what he meant, is it?

00:29:34:17 - 00:29:36:08
Tom
It's no way, man.

00:29:36:10 - 00:29:38:00
Rich
They don't know you there.

00:29:38:02 - 00:29:39:15
Tom
They don't know me.

00:29:39:16 - 00:29:41:01
Rich
Stuff every day up.

00:29:41:01 - 00:29:58:08
Tom
A lot. Even though I know them. Let me tell you something. Yeah, I could, I could describe them. I won't describe them because that's wrong. but I could. I know what they look like. I could describe them, but I, they don't know me. Listen, they don't know me. They didn't remember me for a second. Yeah. Starbucks. It's not where everyone knows your name.

00:29:58:10 - 00:30:01:19
Tom
Even though, ironically, it's a place where they specifically ask for it.

00:30:01:21 - 00:30:06:13
Rich
Yeah, that's a very good point. In deja vu. Did they know you?

00:30:06:15 - 00:30:09:05
Tom
Yeah. Déja vu. Déja vu in us.

00:30:09:07 - 00:30:15:20
Rich
oh. Every time you walked in to go. Have you been here before? Because that would be quite a funny little catchphrase for deja vu, wouldn't it?

00:30:15:22 - 00:30:34:15
Tom
I mean, actually, my dad wouldn't have let this even. But right by where we lived, there was a subway. As in three minutes away and used to run the subway. We were, like, thick as thieves. He got a photo of me once.

00:30:34:17 - 00:30:38:03
Rich
Why would you want a particularly significant Serpell?

00:30:38:05 - 00:30:58:08
Tom
We were just talking. He used to give us loads of stuff for free. Let me tell you. This is my advice on this podcast. Make friends with the guy who runs the subway. Yeah, because he just gave us stuff for free all the time. It was crazy. Here's a drink. His cupcake. Oh, you know, like like, you know, if they've, like, the cookies and the cupcakes and all this stuff, no one buys them.

00:30:58:11 - 00:31:16:20
Tom
It was like, I'll have that at that. No one buys these. It goes, okay, just take them. He didn't care. It's like the Tesla muffins. They were rubbish. But, you know, they're free. They're free. yeah. We bought a small drink. He gives us largesse, you know. Yeah. The friend, the guy who runs the subway. Mashhad. and then one day we were talking, and he.

00:31:17:00 - 00:31:37:18
Tom
I said, I'm going away for a few weeks because I was going to film something for the BBC, and, and he was like, oh, okay. Oh. All right. Oh, I didn't know. Yeah. But this, and I think he thought that I was a newsreader and I didn't quite want to disassociate with that. No, really.

00:31:37:20 - 00:31:39:05
Rich
So I didn't believe what it was.

00:31:39:05 - 00:31:59:03
Tom
So he leaned into it and he got a photo of me. So, some, I'm on a man's phone. but I don't. I don't know if he runs that subway anymore, but if you're out there, Mashhad, if you're listening. yeah. yeah, I guess I'm your pal. That was my true cat. That was my true Catholic dad.

00:31:59:03 - 00:32:00:23
Rich
So it was like a modern cat.

00:32:00:23 - 00:32:02:20
Tom
That they were at. But

00:32:02:22 - 00:32:30:03
Rich
But the thing is about getting a local cafe where they know you if you have to. I don't think I've got the character to be remembered. I'm not memorable enough to walk into a cafe, in my day to day interactions with people, I try to keep myself as neutral and forgettable as possible. and so I don't think I've ever been, I would love to be that kind of person.

00:32:30:08 - 00:32:34:02
Tom
You are currently. You are currently wearing a plain white t-shirt.

00:32:34:04 - 00:32:35:05
Rich
Exactly. Yeah.

00:32:35:05 - 00:32:37:24
Tom
The most neutral and forgettable of clothes.

00:32:37:24 - 00:32:45:16
Rich
And that is how I dress at all times, because I don't want to be identified for my crimes.

00:32:45:18 - 00:32:46:06
Tom
Of course.

00:32:46:06 - 00:32:58:02
Rich
Yeah, yeah. That's why I grew a beard, got some glasses, moved to East London, I blend in, I get away with anything here. But like I said, a man in his 30s with a beard and glasses, I'm like, yeah, well, good luck finding him. That is. That's everyone.

00:32:58:07 - 00:33:01:14
Tom
That's all. That's everyone down there.

00:33:01:16 - 00:33:10:10
Rich
but I would, I probably would like to be able to walk into a cafe and say, hey everyone, just the usual. I don't know why I'm ordering everyone probably.

00:33:10:15 - 00:33:12:07
Tom
Everyone you want. Everybody?

00:33:12:09 - 00:33:31:22
Rich
Everyone. Just the usual for me. Thanks. And, that'd be great, wouldn't it, to be that character. But, I'm just. I'm well aware I'm not going to be that person if I think if I kept going to the same cafe every day, eventually the locals would get suspicious. So I'm less of a, like a fun man about town.

00:33:32:02 - 00:33:46:00
Rich
More a sort of person of interest to local police forces. What is this, silent man? Go to the same cafe every single day. We should bring it in. On what charge? We don't know. But he's creeping people out.

00:33:46:02 - 00:33:52:17
Tom
It's. There's no right way he's doing so for people. Let's just try to run the cafe. He's just come to mass.

00:33:52:17 - 00:33:58:24
Rich
There he pays his money and goes, what is his deal?

00:33:59:01 - 00:34:00:00
Tom
But it's his deal.

00:34:00:06 - 00:34:22:22
Rich
But I imagine your dad and my dad, to be fair, I think both had the character to be. I'm sure that there are pubs. Then my dad went into it and was greeted by name and everyone knew him and I. Maybe that's going to be my resolution. Now, that's a bit of advice I'm taking from my dad.

00:34:22:24 - 00:34:34:16
Rich
it's not advice he's given me. It might be advice he advises against, but I go make it a mission. By the end of this year, there's a pub somewhere near me that I can walk into and people go, hey, Rich, get.

00:34:34:16 - 00:34:36:19
Tom
Out of.

00:34:36:21 - 00:34:38:13
Rich
Some can be budgies.

00:34:38:15 - 00:34:42:07
Tom
Freaky bastard. You didn't say anything.

00:34:42:09 - 00:34:43:20
Rich
We'll call the police again.

00:34:43:23 - 00:34:57:23
Tom
Oh, I'm full of it. You should take the advice of my dad and get yourself a cafe. That's what you should do. Get yourself a cat. Yeah. Yeah, that's what's up. Advice? Do something to Inam of those in your community. That's the. That's the headline.

00:34:58:00 - 00:34:59:04
Rich
Yeah, yeah.

00:34:59:06 - 00:35:02:11
Tom
and you'll probably be doing all right.

00:35:02:13 - 00:35:10:07
Rich
one bit of advice that has come to me during this. That was advice that my dad gave me on a very young,

00:35:10:09 - 00:35:12:22
Tom
Don't think it's the Italians.

00:35:12:24 - 00:35:48:10
Rich
No, you didn't mention the Italians. Absolutely fine to them. no, he said, I remember I was very, very anxious when I was sort of, I think 11 or 12. I had a real year of just constant anxiety and worrying about everything all the time and things. It didn't matter. And I really like it. And I remember it quite, quite viscerally be really horrible like a year of just almost constant panic and guilt and feeling very strange.

00:35:48:12 - 00:36:13:23
Rich
and I remember him talking to me one evening and saying something along the lines of, when you're worrying about something, ask yourself, is it still going to be a worry tomorrow? This time tomorrow, is it still going to matter this time tomorrow? And if the answer is yes, then ask yourself, will it still matter the day after that?

00:36:14:00 - 00:36:35:14
Rich
And if it's still yes, will it matter in a week? Will it matter in a month? Well, how long is this going to be an issue for? And if at any point in the future and this. But I'm not sure if this is great advice for this. This is what he said. If at any point in the future the answer is no, it's not a worry anymore, then it's not worth worrying about.

00:36:35:15 - 00:36:52:06
Rich
And that appears I would probably pull him up nowadays and go, I think maybe if I'm doing the maths and in ten years time I should still be worrying about this, then I think it's worth worrying about.

00:36:52:08 - 00:36:56:06
Tom
But I think that, yeah.

00:36:56:08 - 00:37:18:18
Rich
The general idea of sort of zooming out when you're worried about something good going, getting perspective and going, how big is this issue? Do I need to worry about it all the time? And I think what's interesting about that is I don't think that's advice that he lived by. And that's was I think he really worried about stuff that he didn't need to worry about.

00:37:18:20 - 00:37:19:20
Rich

00:37:19:22 - 00:37:23:14
Tom
Such as?

00:37:23:16 - 00:37:30:02
Rich
I don't know. I don't know if I'm in the position to sort of unroll my dad's worries on a, on a podcast there.

00:37:30:04 - 00:37:43:00
Tom
This could be some worry, but you can draw from your suit. You're accusing him of this. You're saying that he worried about things you didn't need to worry about. So there must be some example somewhere that led you to believe this. Well, you just have the impression of a worrier.

00:37:43:02 - 00:38:06:06
Rich
Okay? He gave the impression of a worrier. he he was quite I think, self-critical and quiet, it's very, very hard on himself. And he was he, you know, I'm generally now quite a laid back person and I get that from my mum. My dad was fairly highly strung. I would say, in a positive way.

00:38:06:06 - 00:38:41:21
Rich
And it made him a very sort of proactive and energetic and, he was a real doer, solutions orientated person. And he made stuff happen. If you didn't like something, he changed it. He was that kind of character. so I think he, he, he probably did worry. And he was a worrier. But it was interesting to me that, like, a lot of the time, the advice that you get from a parent all and a lot some of the advice that I give to other people is not advice that I myself can do, but you can just step outside of it and say objectively, this is the right thing.

00:38:41:23 - 00:39:02:05
Rich
And even if you're able to do it without worry, I still think about that now. And I hadn't until this podcast really clocked that advice from my dad. But I do still use, I mean, worrying about something. I go, well, when will I not be worried about it anymore? And I sort of look forward to that.

00:39:02:07 - 00:39:12:06
Rich
and it is. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it is a good sort of practice in stepping outside of yourself and getting things into perspective, I guess.

00:39:12:06 - 00:39:31:12
Tom
No bad bit of advice, really, is it? I mean, I, I what I, what I would say is that it depends what part of yourself you're asking. Because you're asking the part of my brain that's active mostly during the hours of midnight and one that seems to believe that some of the actions I took as a ten year old are still worrying.

00:39:31:14 - 00:39:40:12
Rich
Well, that. Yeah, that's the fatal flaw, isn't it? If you're asked when you're ten years old, will you be worrying about this in your mid 30s? And you'd be like, well, for some reason, yes, yes I will actually.

00:39:40:14 - 00:39:52:04
Tom
Why did you bite that child? You shouldn't have done that. Once you do it. I don't think so, but Samuel Grant is really worried about that. Think. Well, to be fair, I wonder if he's still got a scar.

00:39:52:06 - 00:39:57:02
Rich
But if you're listening, Samuel, along with Mosshart from the subway and all that stuff.

00:39:57:02 - 00:40:00:12
Tom
You know, if you still got a scar from when I bit you as a child.

00:40:00:12 - 00:40:05:01
Rich
Yeah, we'd love to know.

00:40:05:03 - 00:40:07:20
Rich
To get in touch at the start at gmail.com.

00:40:07:22 - 00:40:08:10
Tom
Yes, please.