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Transcript for Absenteeism in schools

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INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where

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INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child protection

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INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation.

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INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and

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INTRO: share good practice on how we can all work together

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INTRO: to keep babies, children and young people safe.

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PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast.

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PRODUCER: This episode, recorded at the end of 2023

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PRODUCER: and the beginning of 2024, is all about

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PRODUCER: absenteeism in schools.

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PRODUCER: Since the COVID-19 pandemic, pupil absence rates

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PRODUCER: in schools have increased across the UK, with

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PRODUCER: hundreds of thousands of children persistently

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PRODUCER: absent from school.

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PRODUCER: Education is a vital part of ensuring children

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PRODUCER: get the best possible start in life, and there

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PRODUCER: can also be safeguarding implications for

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PRODUCER: children who are absent from school.

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PRODUCER: This podcast episode will look at what those

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PRODUCER: implications may be and what schools can do to

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PRODUCER: support children who are persistently absent.

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PRODUCER: You'll also hear two secondary school students

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PRODUCER: share their thoughts on how the stresses and

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PRODUCER: strains of school life can affect attendance.

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PRODUCER: But first, I asked Janet Hinton, the NSPCC's

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PRODUCER: Strategic Service Manager for schools,

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PRODUCER: to explain what we mean by absenteeism.

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JANET HINTON: So, school absenteeism would be when a child

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JANET HINTON: or young person who is of a compulsory school

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JANET HINTON: age is absent from school.

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JANET HINTON: You will also hear terms that children are

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JANET HINTON: missing from education, and that refers to

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JANET HINTON: children who are not registered at school,

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JANET HINTON: but they're not receiving suitable home

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JANET HINTON: education either. And that's quite a

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JANET HINTON: different group to children who are

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JANET HINTON: persistently absent from school.

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PRODUCER: And what does that term 'persistently absent'

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PRODUCER: mean?

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JANET HINTON: Yeah. So across England, Wales and Scotland,

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JANET HINTON: the term 'persistent absence' is used to

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JANET HINTON: describe children who miss 10% or more of

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JANET HINTON: possible school sessions.

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JANET HINTON: And in Northern Ireland the term 'chronic

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JANET HINTON: absence' is used.

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JANET HINTON: So although the terms across regions and

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JANET HINTON: nations are different, the consistent trends

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JANET HINTON: since the COVID-19 pandemic are the numbers

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JANET HINTON: of students who are persistently absent has

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JANET HINTON: really risen. So in 2022-2023,

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JANET HINTON: 21% of pupils were persistent absentees in

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JANET HINTON: England, 18% of pupils in Wales and

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JANET HINTON: roughly a third in both Scotland and Northern

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JANET HINTON: Ireland. We know it's complex and complicated

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JANET HINTON: and that certain groups of children are much

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JANET HINTON: more likely to be absent than others.

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JANET HINTON: So that does include young people

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JANET HINTON: with special educational needs and

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JANET HINTON: disabilities, young people with mental health

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JANET HINTON: problems, young carers.

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JANET HINTON: There's lots of different reasons that

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JANET HINTON: children could be absent from schools, and

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JANET HINTON: lots of different things going on in their

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JANET HINTON: lives that might affect how likely they are

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JANET HINTON: to be absent from school for either a fixed

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JANET HINTON: period of time, or for a long period of time

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JANET HINTON: throughout their school career or their time

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JANET HINTON: at school. So children with a history of

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JANET HINTON: exclusion or absence, or young people in

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JANET HINTON: care, and those who have a social worker,

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JANET HINTON: might be more at risk of persistent

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JANET HINTON: absenteeism than some other groups of young

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JANET HINTON: people.

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PRODUCER: So we know that some children are more at risk.

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PRODUCER: And we also know that although there are lots of

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PRODUCER: good reasons why children might miss school —

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PRODUCER: they might be ill, they might have medical

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PRODUCER: appointments, etc.

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PRODUCER: — there are obviously safeguarding implications

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PRODUCER: for children who are persistently missing school.

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PRODUCER: Please can you describe what those are and what

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PRODUCER: they may look like?

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JANET HINTON: Yeah. You're absolutely right to say that the

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JANET HINTON: reasons that young people might be

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JANET HINTON: persistently absent from school are really

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JANET HINTON: wide-ranging, and it's really important to be

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JANET HINTON: non-judgmental about for what those reasons

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JANET HINTON: might be and recognise that there is

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JANET HINTON: safeguarding implications when a child or

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JANET HINTON: young person is persistently absent.

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JANET HINTON: We know that schools are protective

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JANET HINTON: spaces. School staff are in a really

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JANET HINTON: excellent position to know young people,

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JANET HINTON: to see them every day, to identify

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JANET HINTON: safeguarding concerns early and to really

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JANET HINTON: provide support to children where they need,

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JANET HINTON: to stop concerns from escalating.

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JANET HINTON: So if children are absent from that space,

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JANET HINTON: the ability that schools have to carry out

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JANET HINTON: that protective function is really impaired.

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JANET HINTON: And although, as we said, there are

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JANET HINTON: wide-ranging reasons that young people are

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JANET HINTON: absent, there may be underlying safeguarding

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JANET HINTON: reasons why a child is missing from school.

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JANET HINTON: So in some instances, poor attendance could

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JANET HINTON: be a sign of abuse or neglect.

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JANET HINTON: And there's definitely a risk of serious harm

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JANET HINTON: when this isn't picked up. And in that sense,

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JANET HINTON: school acts as one really important place

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JANET HINTON: where safeguarding concerns can be

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JANET HINTON: identified, but also that they can be acted

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JANET HINTON: on and that young people can be kept safe.

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PRODUCER: And finally, what can schools do to prevent

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PRODUCER: absenteeism and to support children who are

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PRODUCER: persistently absent?

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JANET HINTON: Schools take their responsibility to monitor

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JANET HINTON: students absence really seriously.

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JANET HINTON: When a child does fail to attend school

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JANET HINTON: without explanation, their absence should be

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JANET HINTON: investigated as part of the school's

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JANET HINTON: safeguarding responsibility.

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JANET HINTON: So the school does have, for example,

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JANET HINTON: responsibility to inform the local authority

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JANET HINTON: of any students who fail to attend school

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JANET HINTON: regularly, or miss ten school days or more

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JANET HINTON: without permission.

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JANET HINTON: In terms of trying to keep young people

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JANET HINTON: in school as much as possible and to be able

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JANET HINTON: to use schools as a safe place, schools also

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JANET HINTON: work really hard to make sure that they

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JANET HINTON: support children who might be reluctant to

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JANET HINTON: attend school and to work with young people

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JANET HINTON: and their families as well.

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JANET HINTON: For example, the amount of pastoral support

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JANET HINTON: and the ways that young people can be brought

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JANET HINTON: back into school at their own pace —

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JANET HINTON: including things like reasonable adjustments,

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JANET HINTON: phased returns, providing students

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JANET HINTON: and families with regular check-ins — there's

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JANET HINTON: lots of things that school can do to make

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JANET HINTON: attendance at school easier for

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JANET HINTON: young people and families, and to really work

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JANET HINTON: with children and families where they are

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JANET HINTON: without feeling judged.

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JANET HINTON: And I think that, you know, children who have

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JANET HINTON: been absent for a long time sometimes need

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JANET HINTON: really gradual, really tailored support plans

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JANET HINTON: to bring them back into school in a way

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JANET HINTON: that's really supportive and beneficial to

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JANET HINTON: them. And in a way that not only keeps them

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JANET HINTON: safer, but bolsters their confidence as well.

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PRODUCER: One place that children can turn to for support

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PRODUCER: if they're struggling with anything, including

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PRODUCER: school, is Childline.

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PRODUCER: John Anderton and Kelly Burnett are Childline

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PRODUCER: supervisors who respond to calls from children

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PRODUCER: and listen to their concerns.

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PRODUCER: I sat down with them both to discuss what they've

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PRODUCER: learnt about why children are missing school.

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JOHN ANDERTON: I would say predominantly the reasons we

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JOHN ANDERTON: hear about most commonly are issues sort

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JOHN ANDERTON: of outside the more obvious medical,

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JOHN ANDERTON: health-related reasons, really.

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JOHN ANDERTON: Other related problems — which we are

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JOHN ANDERTON: probably more inclined to hear about —

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JOHN ANDERTON: include things that are going on at school,

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JOHN ANDERTON: perhaps maybe bullying; or some sort of

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JOHN ANDERTON: anxiety or depression; mental

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JOHN ANDERTON: health issues that might be impacting

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JOHN ANDERTON: school and the performance at school; family

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JOHN ANDERTON: problems; it could be that the young person

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JOHN ANDERTON: has developed, for whatever reason, a

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JOHN ANDERTON: generally quite negative attitude towards

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JOHN ANDERTON: school; all sorts of reasons, really.

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JOHN ANDERTON: We do know that school attendance, certainly

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JOHN ANDERTON: since the pandemic, has been an issue.

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KELLY BURNETT: I think also it's worth bearing in mind

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KELLY BURNETT: parental concerns. You know, the parent

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KELLY BURNETT: opinion on things.

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KELLY BURNETT: That it's potentially more to do with the

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KELLY BURNETT: parents than it is to do with young people.

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KELLY BURNETT: Quite often we can hear from young people

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KELLY BURNETT: who talk about wanting to go to school, but

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KELLY BURNETT: their parents are scared that, you know,

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KELLY BURNETT: history is going to repeat itself and that's

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KELLY BURNETT: preventing that as well. So yeah, I suppose

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KELLY BURNETT: it's about considering those options as

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KELLY BURNETT: well. But I think John's absolutely right in

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KELLY BURNETT: terms of the impact since the pandemic.

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KELLY BURNETT: You know, certainly seems to have escalated

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KELLY BURNETT: and again, in line with all of the mental

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KELLY BURNETT: health concerns as well.

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JOHN ANDERTON: And I think sometimes we kind of forget just

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JOHN ANDERTON: how long the disruption from the pandemic

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JOHN ANDERTON: actually lasted in terms of school.

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JOHN ANDERTON: And I think that for some of the children

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JOHN ANDERTON: who have started to miss school since the

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JOHN ANDERTON: pandemic, it can be a question of

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JOHN ANDERTON: it's kind of broken that momentum, if you

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JOHN ANDERTON: like, of going to school.

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JOHN ANDERTON: It's almost as if children had to get back

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JOHN ANDERTON: into the habit almost of going to school.

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JOHN ANDERTON: Plus, I think it's exacerbated some of the

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JOHN ANDERTON: problems that might already have existed at

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JOHN ANDERTON: home as well. I think some of those may have

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JOHN ANDERTON: come to the fore during the pandemic.

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JOHN ANDERTON: And, I mean, we know, don't we,

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JOHN ANDERTON: unfortunately, that lockdowns and

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JOHN ANDERTON: the things that happened during the pandemic

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JOHN ANDERTON: did have an impact on anxiety levels, on

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JOHN ANDERTON: depression levels — not just for children,

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JOHN ANDERTON: of course, but for everybody, adults as

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JOHN ANDERTON: well. So it could be what we're actually

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JOHN ANDERTON: seeing is symptomatic of that.

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PRODUCER: Absolutely. I think it's impossible to ignore the

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PRODUCER: impact of COVID on school attendance.

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PRODUCER: We've touched on this a bit already in the

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PRODUCER: podcast, but why is school attendance so

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PRODUCER: important for children?

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KELLY BURNETT: I mean, the obvious one is obviously the

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KELLY BURNETT: impact on their education, the impact on

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KELLY BURNETT: their future. But I think we quite often

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KELLY BURNETT: take for granted the fact that schools actually

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KELLY BURNETT: a safe place for them sometimes as well.

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KELLY BURNETT: It can be an escape from their home

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KELLY BURNETT: environment. And if, you know, if the home

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KELLY BURNETT: environment is the reason why they're being

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KELLY BURNETT: prevented from coming into school, you've

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KELLY BURNETT: got that knock-on effect.

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KELLY BURNETT: It's also a bit of stability for them as

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KELLY BURNETT: well, and a bit of routine. I think, you

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KELLY BURNETT: know, as we mentioned before, in terms of

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KELLY BURNETT: the impact on the pandemic and coming in and

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KELLY BURNETT: how, I think, children and young people were

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KELLY BURNETT: out of school for that period of time: they

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KELLY BURNETT: lost that sense of stability.

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KELLY BURNETT: So school can be that element of stability

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KELLY BURNETT: for them.

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JOHN ANDERTON: Many of the children who we talked to, who

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JOHN ANDERTON: are not attending school or not attending

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JOHN ANDERTON: school regularly, often describe themselves

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JOHN ANDERTON: as being socially isolated.

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JOHN ANDERTON: School does provide an opportunity to take

00:09:58,280 → 00:10:00,949

JOHN ANDERTON: part in extracurricular activities and

00:10:00,950 → 00:10:02,719

JOHN ANDERTON: social activities as well.

00:10:02,720 → 00:10:04,789

JOHN ANDERTON: And I think children, particularly through

00:10:04,790 → 00:10:07,789

JOHN ANDERTON: those formative years, will miss

00:10:07,790 → 00:10:10,639

JOHN ANDERTON: out on that opportunity to develop what are

00:10:10,640 → 00:10:13,099

JOHN ANDERTON: really kind of quite basic social skills

00:10:13,100 → 00:10:15,319

JOHN ANDERTON: that we almost take for granted but actually

00:10:15,320 → 00:10:17,359

JOHN ANDERTON: are formed during those really important

00:10:17,360 → 00:10:18,979

JOHN ANDERTON: years at school.

00:10:18,980 → 00:10:21,499

PRODUCER: Definitely. And I think on that point, I should

00:10:21,500 → 00:10:23,824

PRODUCER: tell listeners about the NSPCC's new Building

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PRODUCER: Connections service, which helps children who

00:10:26,840 → 00:10:29,119

PRODUCER: are experiencing loneliness.

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PRODUCER: My next question is: when does missing school

00:10:31,490 → 00:10:33,619

PRODUCER: become a safeguarding concern?

00:10:33,620 → 00:10:36,019

KELLY BURNETT: Again, I think, when school is the safe

00:10:36,020 → 00:10:39,049

KELLY BURNETT: place, at home they're at risk of

00:10:39,050 → 00:10:40,879

KELLY BURNETT: being exposed to things that potentially

00:10:40,880 → 00:10:42,829

KELLY BURNETT: might be going on in the family home.

00:10:42,830 → 00:10:45,252

KELLY BURNETT: Also, I think, it can — and I remember this

00:10:45,253 → 00:10:46,849

KELLY BURNETT: from my teaching days — it's potential

00:10:46,850 → 00:10:48,649

KELLY BURNETT: neglect, particularly if the parents are

00:10:48,650 → 00:10:51,439

KELLY BURNETT: involved there as well, in not being able to

00:10:51,440 → 00:10:53,179

KELLY BURNETT: provide, you know, that basic need that they

00:10:53,180 → 00:10:55,369

KELLY BURNETT: have to attend school.

00:10:55,370 → 00:10:56,659

KELLY BURNETT: And obviously with the extremes of that,

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KELLY BURNETT: you've then got the impact of potentially

00:10:58,460 → 00:11:01,429

KELLY BURNETT: abusive behaviours, from people within the

00:11:01,430 → 00:11:02,809

KELLY BURNETT: family, from people that they know.

00:11:04,340 → 00:11:06,979

KELLY BURNETT: So in that respect, yes. This is where

00:11:06,980 → 00:11:08,899

KELLY BURNETT: schools come in, in terms of picking up on

00:11:08,900 → 00:11:09,900

KELLY BURNETT: those things.

00:11:10,730 → 00:11:12,229

KELLY BURNETT: Picking up on those behaviours, those changing

00:11:12,230 → 00:11:14,449

KELLY BURNETT: behaviours. But that's also difficult if the

00:11:14,450 → 00:11:16,189

KELLY BURNETT: child's not attending school.

00:11:16,190 → 00:11:18,979

JOHN ANDERTON: We know that children who are not attending

00:11:18,980 → 00:11:21,979

JOHN ANDERTON: school can become targets for abuse

00:11:21,980 → 00:11:22,980

JOHN ANDERTON: and exploitation.

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JOHN ANDERTON: And also, schools are such a great...

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JOHN ANDERTON: You know, they're a source of support, of

00:11:28,110 → 00:11:29,429

JOHN ANDERTON: course, school itself.

00:11:29,430 → 00:11:31,829

JOHN ANDERTON: But schools are also a gateway to other

00:11:31,830 → 00:11:33,509

JOHN ANDERTON: areas of support as well.

00:11:33,510 → 00:11:35,269

JOHN ANDERTON: I've actually just been speaking to a

00:11:35,270 → 00:11:37,739

JOHN ANDERTON: school, making a referral to a school about

00:11:37,740 → 00:11:39,689

JOHN ANDERTON: a young person.

00:11:39,690 → 00:11:42,029

JOHN ANDERTON: Well, on behalf of a young person, I should

00:11:42,030 → 00:11:45,029

JOHN ANDERTON: say. And that was an example

00:11:45,030 → 00:11:48,089

JOHN ANDERTON: where this young person did really

00:11:48,090 → 00:11:50,879

JOHN ANDERTON: need help. We had some very significant

00:11:50,880 → 00:11:52,919

JOHN ANDERTON: safeguarding concerns about this young

00:11:52,920 → 00:11:54,299

JOHN ANDERTON: person.

00:11:54,300 → 00:11:57,629

JOHN ANDERTON: The only people that this young person

00:11:57,630 → 00:11:59,999

JOHN ANDERTON: would agree to us making contact with was

00:12:00,000 → 00:12:03,119

JOHN ANDERTON: school. Had we needed to, we would have had

00:12:03,120 → 00:12:05,129

JOHN ANDERTON: to have worked against this young person's

00:12:05,130 → 00:12:07,499

JOHN ANDERTON: wishes and contacted maybe police or the

00:12:07,500 → 00:12:10,829

JOHN ANDERTON: ambulance services or children's services.

00:12:10,830 → 00:12:13,709

JOHN ANDERTON: But what this young person did do, because

00:12:13,710 → 00:12:16,409

JOHN ANDERTON: they've got that relationship with school,

00:12:16,410 → 00:12:18,749

JOHN ANDERTON: they were much more comfortable with us

00:12:18,750 → 00:12:20,609

JOHN ANDERTON: talking to school on their behalf.

00:12:20,610 → 00:12:22,799

JOHN ANDERTON: So, when we're talking to children who are

00:12:22,800 → 00:12:25,259

JOHN ANDERTON: not attending schools, they haven't got that

00:12:25,260 → 00:12:27,779

JOHN ANDERTON: healthy sort of constructive relationship

00:12:27,780 → 00:12:29,189

JOHN ANDERTON: with schools.

00:12:29,190 → 00:12:31,949

JOHN ANDERTON: It can be so much harder to find appropriate

00:12:31,950 → 00:12:34,079

JOHN ANDERTON: help and support for that young person as

00:12:34,080 → 00:12:36,149

JOHN ANDERTON: well, which then, you know, sort of

00:12:36,150 → 00:12:38,909

JOHN ANDERTON: amplifies and increases any safeguarding

00:12:38,910 → 00:12:41,069

JOHN ANDERTON: concerns that already exist.

00:12:41,070 → 00:12:42,749

PRODUCER: You're right to highlight the vital role that

00:12:42,750 → 00:12:45,539

PRODUCER: schools play in keeping children safe.

00:12:45,540 → 00:12:47,459

PRODUCER: And it's really important as well to recognise

00:12:47,460 → 00:12:49,529

PRODUCER: the safeguarding pressures that schools are

00:12:49,530 → 00:12:52,529

PRODUCER: under. What advice would you give to education

00:12:52,530 → 00:12:54,989

PRODUCER: professionals on how to support children who are

00:12:54,990 → 00:12:57,029

PRODUCER: frequently missing school?

00:12:57,030 → 00:12:59,059

KELLY BURNETT: I mean, I think again, from experience —

00:12:59,060 → 00:13:00,719

KELLY BURNETT: more so sort of now rather than when I was

00:13:00,720 → 00:13:02,969

KELLY BURNETT: teaching — there are now, there seems to be

00:13:02,970 → 00:13:04,599

KELLY BURNETT: more designated teams involved.

00:13:04,600 → 00:13:06,959

KELLY BURNETT: So the pastoral teams are more prominent,

00:13:06,960 → 00:13:08,579

KELLY BURNETT: the safeguarding teams are more prominent.

00:13:08,580 → 00:13:10,439

KELLY BURNETT: And I am aware, obviously, that some have

00:13:10,440 → 00:13:13,619

KELLY BURNETT: got absence workers within schools

00:13:13,620 → 00:13:15,298

KELLY BURNETT: and that kind of thing. I suppose, as well,

00:13:15,299 → 00:13:17,069

KELLY BURNETT: you know, it's potentially looking for those

00:13:17,070 → 00:13:19,199

KELLY BURNETT: patterns. Is there a reason why these young

00:13:19,200 → 00:13:20,879

KELLY BURNETT: people are off. Are there reasons why

00:13:20,880 → 00:13:23,009

KELLY BURNETT: they're off at certain points of the day.

00:13:23,010 → 00:13:24,929

KELLY BURNETT: I suppose it's that multi-agency work as

00:13:24,930 → 00:13:26,699

KELLY BURNETT: well, isn't it, making sure that they're communicating

00:13:26,700 → 00:13:29,249

KELLY BURNETT: with social care, if there's any involvement

00:13:29,250 → 00:13:30,967

KELLY BURNETT: with them, and anything else they might

00:13:30,968 → 00:13:33,389

KELLY BURNETT: know. So just making sure that, I suppose,

00:13:33,390 → 00:13:35,969

KELLY BURNETT: that communication is there so that we can

00:13:35,970 → 00:13:38,069

KELLY BURNETT: make sure we're there for those young people.

00:13:38,070 → 00:13:41,249

JOHN ANDERTON: I would agree with that. And, I mean, I find

00:13:41,250 → 00:13:43,769

JOHN ANDERTON: personally that when we work with other

00:13:43,770 → 00:13:46,409

JOHN ANDERTON: agencies, a lot of the most helpful and

00:13:46,410 → 00:13:48,299

JOHN ANDERTON: constructive work that we do is actually

00:13:48,300 → 00:13:49,589

JOHN ANDERTON: done with schools.

00:13:49,590 → 00:13:52,619

JOHN ANDERTON: And again, it's really just about schools

00:13:52,620 → 00:13:56,009

JOHN ANDERTON: being alert to those signs and certainly

00:13:56,010 → 00:13:58,679

JOHN ANDERTON: being willing to just sort of, you know...

00:13:58,680 → 00:14:01,709

JOHN ANDERTON: We talk to people, about

00:14:01,710 → 00:14:03,629

JOHN ANDERTON: acting on your hunches, you know; that if

00:14:03,630 → 00:14:06,989

JOHN ANDERTON: you sense that something's not right,

00:14:06,990 → 00:14:09,899

JOHN ANDERTON: then the likelihood is that something is not

00:14:09,900 → 00:14:11,819

JOHN ANDERTON: right, that there is a problem there.

00:14:11,820 → 00:14:14,735

JOHN ANDERTON: So, we would say to schools, as we'd say to

00:14:14,736 → 00:14:17,759

JOHN ANDERTON: anybody, particularly anybody who

00:14:17,760 → 00:14:20,099

JOHN ANDERTON: has regular contact with children and young

00:14:20,100 → 00:14:22,169

JOHN ANDERTON: people, is to act on your gut instincts,

00:14:22,170 → 00:14:23,566

JOHN ANDERTON: really. And to just sort of check.

00:14:23,567 → 00:14:26,339

JOHN ANDERTON: Don't hesitate just to check.

00:14:26,340 → 00:14:28,709

JOHN ANDERTON: Even if it turns out that you're wrong — and

00:14:28,710 → 00:14:32,189

JOHN ANDERTON: hopefully you are wrong and there aren't any

00:14:32,190 → 00:14:35,489

JOHN ANDERTON: really concerning issues going on — just

00:14:35,490 → 00:14:37,125

JOHN ANDERTON: act on your hunches, you know, just take

00:14:37,126 → 00:14:39,509

JOHN ANDERTON: notice of those gut feelings.

00:14:40,510 → 00:14:42,759

PRODUCER: John, Kelly, thank you so much for sharing your

00:14:42,760 → 00:14:44,799

PRODUCER: experiences of supporting children through

00:14:44,800 → 00:14:45,800

PRODUCER: Childline.

00:14:51,430 → 00:14:53,439

PRODUCER: To get a full picture of the problem of

00:14:53,440 → 00:14:55,749

PRODUCER: absenteeism in schools, it's important to hear

00:14:55,750 → 00:14:57,789

PRODUCER: from young people themselves.

00:14:57,790 → 00:15:00,249

PRODUCER: To conclude this podcast episode, I spoke to two

00:15:00,250 → 00:15:03,159

PRODUCER: members of the NSPCC's Young People's Board for

00:15:03,160 → 00:15:05,469

PRODUCER: Change (YPBC), who are both currently in

00:15:05,470 → 00:15:07,659

PRODUCER: secondary education.

00:15:07,660 → 00:15:09,969

PRODUCER: The young people began by sharing their opinions

00:15:09,970 → 00:15:13,179

PRODUCER: on why children might want to miss school.

00:15:13,180 → 00:15:16,659

YPBC MEMBER 1: I think as everyone is very different,

00:15:16,660 → 00:15:19,469

YPBC MEMBER 1: there is loads of reasons why a young person

00:15:19,470 → 00:15:20,829

YPBC MEMBER 1: would quit school.

00:15:20,830 → 00:15:24,219

YPBC MEMBER 1: For me, the reasons that I missed school

00:15:24,220 → 00:15:27,819

YPBC MEMBER 1: were illness and stress

00:15:27,820 → 00:15:29,919

YPBC MEMBER 1: and undiagnosed needs.

00:15:29,920 → 00:15:31,869

YPBC MEMBER 1: And I think that definitely goes for a lot

00:15:31,870 → 00:15:35,289

YPBC MEMBER 1: of young people — how you can

00:15:35,290 → 00:15:37,869

YPBC MEMBER 1: so easily get stressed and overwhelmed by

00:15:37,870 → 00:15:39,309

YPBC MEMBER 1: all of the pressures that school can put on

00:15:39,310 → 00:15:42,009

YPBC MEMBER 1: you. And also peer pressure and exams

00:15:44,080 → 00:15:45,999

YPBC MEMBER 1: and homework, and it can all get on top of

00:15:46,000 → 00:15:47,000

YPBC MEMBER 1: you.

00:15:48,190 → 00:15:51,069

YPBC MEMBER 1: It can be very stressful, and that can cause

00:15:51,070 → 00:15:52,749

YPBC MEMBER 1: illness in itself.

00:15:52,750 → 00:15:56,139

YPBC MEMBER 1: And, I guess, one of the big main

00:15:56,140 → 00:15:59,949

YPBC MEMBER 1: things that I think schools don't really

00:15:59,950 → 00:16:02,619

YPBC MEMBER 1: understand is that actually mainstream

00:16:02,620 → 00:16:05,529

YPBC MEMBER 1: school might not actually be the best place

00:16:05,530 → 00:16:08,319

YPBC MEMBER 1: for that individual, and school might not be

00:16:08,320 → 00:16:10,579

YPBC MEMBER 1: the best place for a child.

00:16:10,580 → 00:16:12,489

YPBC MEMBER 1: There are other ways of receiving an

00:16:12,490 → 00:16:15,549

YPBC MEMBER 1: education that might work better for

00:16:15,550 → 00:16:16,719

YPBC MEMBER 1: that child.

00:16:16,720 → 00:16:19,509

YPBC MEMBER 2: I think it could just be sometimes as simple

00:16:19,510 → 00:16:21,129

YPBC MEMBER 2: as they just don't feel like it's a nice

00:16:21,130 → 00:16:22,809

YPBC MEMBER 2: environment to be in.

00:16:22,810 → 00:16:24,826

YPBC MEMBER 2: It could be because the teachers, they don't

00:16:24,827 → 00:16:27,669

YPBC MEMBER 2: feel like the teachers are kind to them, or

00:16:27,670 → 00:16:29,139

YPBC MEMBER 2: they don't feel like the teachers are

00:16:29,140 → 00:16:31,659

YPBC MEMBER 2: helping them or understanding them.

00:16:31,660 → 00:16:33,399

YPBC MEMBER 2: Or it could be because of the kids and the

00:16:33,400 → 00:16:35,349

YPBC MEMBER 2: other people in the school.

00:16:35,350 → 00:16:37,029

YPBC MEMBER 2: That could be because they've been bullied,

00:16:37,030 → 00:16:39,219

YPBC MEMBER 2: or it could just be because the kids are

00:16:39,220 → 00:16:41,439

YPBC MEMBER 2: mean and just say comments sometimes.

00:16:41,440 → 00:16:44,409

YPBC MEMBER 2: And it's just... I know for me some of the

00:16:44,410 → 00:16:46,579

YPBC MEMBER 2: kids in the school just aren't very nice and

00:16:46,580 → 00:16:48,249

YPBC MEMBER 2: they'll just say random things. And I think

00:16:48,250 → 00:16:51,069

YPBC MEMBER 2: that can stick with you for the whole day.

00:16:51,070 → 00:16:53,139

YPBC MEMBER 2: Just one bad experience can make the whole

00:16:53,140 → 00:16:56,289

YPBC MEMBER 2: day just unenjoyable and not a nice

00:16:56,290 → 00:16:58,889

YPBC MEMBER 2: place to be. And if that happens repeatedly,

00:16:58,890 → 00:17:00,819

YPBC MEMBER 2: you just start to hate school and not want

00:17:00,820 → 00:17:03,409

YPBC MEMBER 2: to be there. And if you get any...

00:17:03,410 → 00:17:04,689

YPBC MEMBER 2: If you wake up one day with a slight

00:17:04,690 → 00:17:07,209

YPBC MEMBER 2: headache, you might just take that and say,

00:17:07,210 → 00:17:09,309

YPBC MEMBER 2: "sorry, I can't come in", because what's the

00:17:09,310 → 00:17:10,719

YPBC MEMBER 2: point in being in school if you're just not

00:17:10,720 → 00:17:11,769

YPBC MEMBER 2: enjoying it?

00:17:11,770 → 00:17:15,009

PRODUCER: Absolutely, I think that sort of snowball

00:17:15,010 → 00:17:17,679

PRODUCER: effect will be really recognisable for lots of

00:17:17,680 → 00:17:20,679

PRODUCER: people. You both mentioned the stresses that

00:17:20,680 → 00:17:22,449

PRODUCER: young people might face.

00:17:22,450 → 00:17:24,489

PRODUCER: Please, can you talk a little bit more about

00:17:24,490 → 00:17:26,529

PRODUCER: those stresses that might lead to young people

00:17:26,530 → 00:17:27,530

PRODUCER: missing school?

00:17:30,060 → 00:17:32,772

YPBC MEMBER 1: I think, for me, I wasn't in secondary

00:17:34,080 → 00:17:36,479

YPBC MEMBER 1: school very long because the stress of

00:17:36,480 → 00:17:38,939

YPBC MEMBER 1: starting was too much for me.

00:17:38,940 → 00:17:40,259

YPBC MEMBER 1: So some of the stresses for me were, because

00:17:41,730 → 00:17:44,819

YPBC MEMBER 1: I had a diagnosed autism, I found

00:17:44,820 → 00:17:46,369

YPBC MEMBER 1: being in a really busy school environment,

00:17:46,370 → 00:17:50,249

YPBC MEMBER 1: carrying loads of books, it's so noisy

00:17:50,250 → 00:17:53,069

YPBC MEMBER 1: in stairwells and in dinner halls.

00:17:53,070 → 00:17:56,369

YPBC MEMBER 1: It's insanely loud and

00:17:56,370 → 00:17:57,929

YPBC MEMBER 1: it all gets on top of you.

00:17:57,930 → 00:18:00,959

YPBC MEMBER 1: People brush past you, it's very pushy

00:18:00,960 → 00:18:03,539

YPBC MEMBER 1: and shovey in all the corridors, and it's

00:18:03,540 → 00:18:05,609

YPBC MEMBER 1: just generally a really overwhelming

00:18:05,610 → 00:18:05,727

YPBC MEMBER 1: experience.

00:18:05,728 → 00:18:08,789

YPBC MEMBER 2: I also think in class,

00:18:08,790 → 00:18:11,039

YPBC MEMBER 2: when you're in class, there's so much

00:18:11,040 → 00:18:13,409

YPBC MEMBER 2: information being thrown at you and you've

00:18:13,410 → 00:18:15,569

YPBC MEMBER 2: got to sit and just listen to the teacher

00:18:15,570 → 00:18:18,389

YPBC MEMBER 2: talk for such a long period of time.

00:18:18,390 → 00:18:20,099

YPBC MEMBER 2: If you're someone who struggles with sitting

00:18:20,100 → 00:18:22,829

YPBC MEMBER 2: still and just paying attention for long

00:18:22,830 → 00:18:24,989

YPBC MEMBER 2: periods of time, you could get in trouble

00:18:24,990 → 00:18:27,449

YPBC MEMBER 2: for those things. And then that makes school

00:18:27,450 → 00:18:30,779

YPBC MEMBER 2: even more of a bad experience

00:18:30,780 → 00:18:32,909

YPBC MEMBER 2: for you, because the teacher doesn't

00:18:32,910 → 00:18:35,339

YPBC MEMBER 2: understand the fact that you're finding it

00:18:35,340 → 00:18:37,469

YPBC MEMBER 2: hard to concentrate, and you might be trying

00:18:37,470 → 00:18:39,869

YPBC MEMBER 2: your hardest but you're getting punished for

00:18:39,870 → 00:18:42,689

YPBC MEMBER 2: those things, when you're trying to the

00:18:42,690 → 00:18:45,509

YPBC MEMBER 2: highest of your capacity to listen to the

00:18:45,510 → 00:18:47,159

YPBC MEMBER 2: teacher talk for that long.

00:18:47,160 → 00:18:48,719

YPBC MEMBER 2: But it can just get really stressful.

00:18:48,720 → 00:18:50,999

YPBC MEMBER 2: And if that's happening six times or five

00:18:51,000 → 00:18:52,619

YPBC MEMBER 2: times in a day because you've got that many

00:18:52,620 → 00:18:55,019

YPBC MEMBER 2: lessons, it can just become really stressful

00:18:55,020 → 00:18:56,399

YPBC MEMBER 2: and get on top of you.

00:18:56,400 → 00:18:58,015

YPBC MEMBER 2: And then if you think you're behind in work,

00:18:58,016 → 00:19:00,119

YPBC MEMBER 2: because you've not heard what's happening in

00:19:00,120 → 00:19:02,579

YPBC MEMBER 2: lesson, then it just gets even worse.

00:19:02,580 → 00:19:04,289

YPBC MEMBER 2: And then you don't know what to do on

00:19:04,290 → 00:19:07,649

YPBC MEMBER 2: homework and you worry for tests because

00:19:07,650 → 00:19:09,839

YPBC MEMBER 2: you don't understand what's happening in class.

00:19:09,840 → 00:19:12,809

YPBC MEMBER 2: It just gets very stressful and overwhelming

00:19:12,810 → 00:19:13,889

YPBC MEMBER 2: for you.

00:19:13,890 → 00:19:16,169

YPBC MEMBER 1: All of these stresses just build up over

00:19:16,170 → 00:19:18,269

YPBC MEMBER 1: time and it's so degrading.

00:19:18,270 → 00:19:21,119

YPBC MEMBER 1: You go through it day after day after day.

00:19:21,120 → 00:19:24,179

YPBC MEMBER 1: And what then starts to happen is

00:19:24,180 → 00:19:25,679

YPBC MEMBER 1: you just start to burnout.

00:19:25,680 → 00:19:28,649

YPBC MEMBER 1: I think it's like one of the highest things

00:19:28,650 → 00:19:31,409

YPBC MEMBER 1: in students at the moment is burnout.

00:19:31,410 → 00:19:34,589

YPBC MEMBER 1: Over lockdown and through

00:19:34,590 → 00:19:37,739

YPBC MEMBER 1: COVID, after that, so many

00:19:37,740 → 00:19:40,079

YPBC MEMBER 1: children got diagnosed with things that

00:19:40,080 → 00:19:42,359

YPBC MEMBER 1: hadn't been picked up in schools because

00:19:42,360 → 00:19:45,179

YPBC MEMBER 1: going back to school after COVID was so

00:19:45,180 → 00:19:47,198

YPBC MEMBER 1: stressful. It feels almost cruel sometimes,

00:19:48,750 → 00:19:50,669

YPBC MEMBER 1: the amount of stress that young people get

00:19:50,670 → 00:19:53,639

YPBC MEMBER 1: put under from schools, and it's meant

00:19:53,640 → 00:19:56,129

YPBC MEMBER 1: to be a safe place, and it's meant to be a

00:19:56,130 → 00:19:58,769

YPBC MEMBER 1: place where you're meant to learn and thrive.

00:19:58,770 → 00:20:02,189

YPBC MEMBER 1: And yet, sometimes, it can be

00:20:02,190 → 00:20:04,049

YPBC MEMBER 1: one of the most traumatic places to be

00:20:04,050 → 00:20:06,119

YPBC MEMBER 1: because you're just put under stress day in

00:20:06,120 → 00:20:07,349

YPBC MEMBER 1: and day out.

00:20:07,350 → 00:20:09,869

PRODUCER: That's obviously — and I'm sure teachers will

00:20:09,870 → 00:20:12,119

PRODUCER: agree — that that's not the aim of school.

00:20:14,010 → 00:20:15,389

PRODUCER: School should be a place where students feel safe and secure. What do

00:20:15,390 → 00:20:18,329

PRODUCER: you think education professionals can do to make

00:20:18,330 → 00:20:20,609

PRODUCER: the school environment less stressful?

00:20:20,610 → 00:20:23,219

PRODUCER: Because no one wants it to be as stressful as you

00:20:23,220 → 00:20:24,329

PRODUCER: describe?

00:20:24,330 → 00:20:27,359

YPBC MEMBER 2: I think just talking to the people

00:20:27,360 → 00:20:29,579

YPBC MEMBER 2: who are not enjoying school or who are off

00:20:29,580 → 00:20:31,439

YPBC MEMBER 2: school, talking to people and their

00:20:31,440 → 00:20:34,139

YPBC MEMBER 2: families, and just having a discussion and

00:20:34,140 → 00:20:36,749

YPBC MEMBER 2: asking them why they don't feel like they

00:20:36,750 → 00:20:38,699

YPBC MEMBER 2: want to come to school. What is the problem?

00:20:38,700 → 00:20:40,169

YPBC MEMBER 2: What's the issue for you?

00:20:40,170 → 00:20:43,019

YPBC MEMBER 2: And then figuring out a way to fix that for

00:20:43,020 → 00:20:44,969

YPBC MEMBER 2: them. So, say they thought it was too

00:20:44,970 → 00:20:47,939

YPBC MEMBER 2: crowded or just too loud and crazy

00:20:47,940 → 00:20:50,159

YPBC MEMBER 2: and chaotic, maybe let them out of lessons

00:20:50,160 → 00:20:51,929

YPBC MEMBER 2: five minutes early so they go out before the

00:20:51,930 → 00:20:54,929

YPBC MEMBER 2: rush of people and find a place for them

00:20:54,930 → 00:20:57,089

YPBC MEMBER 2: to go during break and lunch so they don't

00:20:57,090 → 00:20:59,549

YPBC MEMBER 2: have to be in a big group of people.

00:20:59,550 → 00:21:02,639

YPBC MEMBER 2: And then, just talk to them and understand

00:21:02,640 → 00:21:05,039

YPBC MEMBER 2: their needs and what you can do to make them

00:21:05,040 → 00:21:07,409

YPBC MEMBER 2: feel valued and understood.

00:21:07,410 → 00:21:09,689

YPBC MEMBER 1: When you're absent from school for a long

00:21:09,690 → 00:21:11,969

YPBC MEMBER 1: period of time, there seems to be a big

00:21:11,970 → 00:21:14,339

YPBC MEMBER 1: amount of blame. A big amount of blame that

00:21:14,340 → 00:21:16,709

YPBC MEMBER 1: goes on parents and a big amount of blame

00:21:16,710 → 00:21:18,089

YPBC MEMBER 1: that goes on a child.

00:21:18,090 → 00:21:21,329

YPBC MEMBER 1: Because school's main objective seems to be

00:21:21,330 → 00:21:23,099

YPBC MEMBER 1: getting the child back into school as soon

00:21:23,100 → 00:21:25,619

YPBC MEMBER 1: as possible, rather than making sure that

00:21:25,620 → 00:21:27,689

YPBC MEMBER 1: they're happy and healthy in school.

00:21:27,690 → 00:21:29,729

YPBC MEMBER 1: I do feel like it is worth listening to the

00:21:29,730 → 00:21:31,589

YPBC MEMBER 1: child and the parents about what the reasons

00:21:31,590 → 00:21:34,049

YPBC MEMBER 1: are and trying to solve them.

00:21:34,050 → 00:21:36,719

YPBC MEMBER 1: If you listen, then you might find a

00:21:36,720 → 00:21:38,369

YPBC MEMBER 1: solution, because the likelihood is if you

00:21:38,370 → 00:21:40,679

YPBC MEMBER 1: just force them back into school without

00:21:40,680 → 00:21:43,259

YPBC MEMBER 1: listening, they'll be absent in the future

00:21:43,260 → 00:21:44,999

YPBC MEMBER 1: and they won't be happy and they won't enjoy

00:21:45,000 → 00:21:47,579

YPBC MEMBER 1: learning. And that's just not the way it's

00:21:47,580 → 00:21:48,869

YPBC MEMBER 1: going to work.

00:21:48,870 → 00:21:51,629

YPBC MEMBER 1: So definitely listening and definitely being

00:21:51,630 → 00:21:54,749

YPBC MEMBER 1: solution-focused, and working on how can

00:21:54,750 → 00:21:57,899

YPBC MEMBER 1: you make the school more accessible

00:21:57,900 → 00:22:00,119

YPBC MEMBER 1: for the child and how can you make it more a

00:22:00,120 → 00:22:01,439

YPBC MEMBER 1: enjoyable experience for them?

00:22:03,030 → 00:22:06,419

YPBC MEMBER 1: And, again, realise

00:22:06,420 → 00:22:09,599

YPBC MEMBER 1: that mainstream school might not

00:22:09,600 → 00:22:12,629

YPBC MEMBER 1: be the best place and you have to

00:22:12,630 → 00:22:14,729

YPBC MEMBER 1: accept that. It's nothing that's like a

00:22:14,730 → 00:22:16,709

YPBC MEMBER 1: reflection on school, it's nothing like

00:22:16,710 → 00:22:19,289

YPBC MEMBER 1: that. It's just being able to accept that

00:22:19,290 → 00:22:23,129

YPBC MEMBER 1: actually every teacher wants

00:22:23,130 → 00:22:25,364

YPBC MEMBER 1: a child to be able to learn and thrive, and

00:22:27,540 → 00:22:29,249

YPBC MEMBER 1: being in mainstream school might not be the

00:22:29,250 → 00:22:31,409

YPBC MEMBER 1: way that they reach their full potential.

00:22:31,410 → 00:22:33,479

YPBC MEMBER 1: So I think realising that would definitely

00:22:33,480 → 00:22:34,480

YPBC MEMBER 1: be an improvement.

00:22:35,250 → 00:22:37,769

YPBC MEMBER 2: I also think adding on to that point, just

00:22:37,770 → 00:22:40,739

YPBC MEMBER 2: teaching kids where they need to go for help

00:22:40,740 → 00:22:43,319

YPBC MEMBER 2: and who they need to talk to if they're

00:22:43,320 → 00:22:44,579

YPBC MEMBER 2: having issues.

00:22:44,580 → 00:22:48,059

YPBC MEMBER 2: And some people might want a mentor

00:22:48,060 → 00:22:50,669

YPBC MEMBER 2: or somebody who they can speak to — or the

00:22:50,670 → 00:22:52,889

YPBC MEMBER 2: mentor can speak to them to check up on how

00:22:52,890 → 00:22:56,519

YPBC MEMBER 2: they're feeling and just check on how

00:22:56,520 → 00:22:57,936

YPBC MEMBER 2: school is feeling for them.

00:22:57,937 → 00:22:59,789

YPBC MEMBER 2: Because then, if they have any issues, they

00:22:59,790 → 00:23:01,919

YPBC MEMBER 2: can get sorted there and then, instead of it

00:23:01,920 → 00:23:03,809

YPBC MEMBER 2: building up and building up for them just

00:23:03,810 → 00:23:05,819

YPBC MEMBER 2: not wanting to come in school completely.

00:23:05,820 → 00:23:07,979

YPBC MEMBER 2: They can get rid of the issues as they

00:23:07,980 → 00:23:10,709

YPBC MEMBER 2: arise, and then it shouldn't become too big

00:23:10,710 → 00:23:13,199

YPBC MEMBER 2: of a thing and an issue and a stress in

00:23:13,200 → 00:23:14,159

YPBC MEMBER 2: school.

00:23:14,160 → 00:23:16,499

PRODUCER: I think that idea of a mentor is a really great

00:23:16,500 → 00:23:19,049

PRODUCER: idea, having that peer support in place is

00:23:19,050 → 00:23:22,229

PRODUCER: lovely. And I agree that taking steps to prevent

00:23:22,230 → 00:23:25,499

PRODUCER: issues from escalating is really important too.

00:23:25,500 → 00:23:28,229

PRODUCER: Before we end the podcast, are there any other

00:23:28,230 → 00:23:31,619

PRODUCER: points either of you want to make on this topic?

00:23:31,620 → 00:23:34,499

YPBC MEMBER 2: I just wanted to add that I think most of

00:23:34,500 → 00:23:36,659

YPBC MEMBER 2: the time, the issue is just that the child's

00:23:36,660 → 00:23:40,109

YPBC MEMBER 2: voice is lost in education and they just

00:23:40,110 → 00:23:42,089

YPBC MEMBER 2: don't get a chance to express their needs

00:23:42,090 → 00:23:45,329

YPBC MEMBER 2: and what they want to be done,

00:23:45,330 → 00:23:47,609

YPBC MEMBER 2: or what their issue is so that school can

00:23:47,610 → 00:23:49,679

YPBC MEMBER 2: figure out what needs to be done to keep

00:23:49,680 → 00:23:51,269

YPBC MEMBER 2: them in school or to bring them back to

00:23:51,270 → 00:23:54,179

YPBC MEMBER 2: school. And I think just listening to the

00:23:54,180 → 00:23:57,089

YPBC MEMBER 2: child and letting them tell you what's

00:23:57,090 → 00:23:59,489

YPBC MEMBER 2: wrong, instead of jumping to conclusions or

00:23:59,490 → 00:24:02,549

YPBC MEMBER 2: trying to figure it out, would just solve a

00:24:02,550 → 00:24:05,069

YPBC MEMBER 2: lot of things. Then you can work from there

00:24:05,070 → 00:24:07,409

YPBC MEMBER 2: and think, "okay, what can we do to solve

00:24:07,410 → 00:24:10,319

YPBC MEMBER 2: this issue to make them want to get back to

00:24:10,320 → 00:24:11,159

YPBC MEMBER 2: school?".

00:24:11,160 → 00:24:13,889

YPBC MEMBER 1: What they say is incredibly valuable,

00:24:13,890 → 00:24:15,389

YPBC MEMBER 1: especially if they've not been in school,

00:24:15,390 → 00:24:18,659

YPBC MEMBER 1: because this is probably the first time

00:24:18,660 → 00:24:20,669

YPBC MEMBER 1: that they will have spoken to anyone about

00:24:20,670 → 00:24:22,049

YPBC MEMBER 1: difficulties.

00:24:22,050 → 00:24:25,229

YPBC MEMBER 1: And making yourself available to talk to

00:24:25,230 → 00:24:27,299

YPBC MEMBER 1: and approachable is probably one of the most

00:24:27,300 → 00:24:30,089

YPBC MEMBER 1: valuable things you can give to the child.

00:24:30,090 → 00:24:33,149

YPBC MEMBER 1: And I know that if I'd had a teacher that

00:24:33,150 → 00:24:35,819

YPBC MEMBER 1: sat down and listened to me, if I was able

00:24:35,820 → 00:24:38,679

YPBC MEMBER 1: to talk, then that probably would have saved

00:24:38,680 → 00:24:40,589

YPBC MEMBER 1: an awful lot of trouble.

00:24:40,590 → 00:24:43,229

PRODUCER: And I think that point on the importance of

00:24:43,230 → 00:24:46,259

PRODUCER: listening to young people is really key, and it's

00:24:46,260 → 00:24:48,959

PRODUCER: the perfect final message to end our discussion

00:24:48,960 → 00:24:52,019

PRODUCER: with. Thank you both so much for sharing so

00:24:52,020 → 00:24:54,929

PRODUCER: candidly and so honestly your thoughts on this

00:24:54,930 → 00:24:57,809

PRODUCER: topic. I really benefited from listening to what

00:24:57,810 → 00:24:59,969

PRODUCER: you've had to say, and I'm sure our audience of

00:24:59,970 → 00:25:03,209

PRODUCER: the podcast will as well, so thank you.

00:25:03,210 → 00:25:06,269

PRODUCER: And thank you also to Janet Hinton, John Anderton

00:25:06,270 → 00:25:09,479

PRODUCER: and Kelly Burnett for their contributions.

00:25:09,480 → 00:25:11,429

PRODUCER: If you'd like to learn more about safeguarding

00:25:11,430 → 00:25:13,709

PRODUCER: children and young people in schools, you can

00:25:13,710 → 00:25:16,829

PRODUCER: find a range of resources on the NSPCC learning

00:25:16,830 → 00:25:19,529

PRODUCER: website, and we'll link to some of those in the

00:25:19,530 → 00:25:21,239

PRODUCER: podcast show notes.

00:25:21,240 → 00:25:22,240

PRODUCER: Thanks for listening.

00:25:26,260 → 00:25:29,919

OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning podcast.

00:25:29,920 → 00:25:32,799

OUTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content was

00:25:32,800 → 00:25:35,439

OUTRO: up to date, but the world of safeguarding and child

00:25:35,440 → 00:25:36,440

OUTRO: protection is ever-changing.

00:25:37,510 → 00:25:39,609

OUTRO: So, if you're looking for the most current

00:25:39,610 → 00:25:42,339

OUTRO: safeguarding and child protection training,

00:25:42,340 → 00:25:45,309

OUTRO: information or resources, please visit

00:25:45,310 → 00:25:47,637

OUTRO: our website for professionals at

00:25:47,638 → 00:25:48,638

OUTRO: nspcc.org.uk/learning.

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