KATE MARTIN: This podcast is sponsored by Blue Diamond Garden
Centres.
Fill your garden with beauty and heritage with the National Trust
Collection of bulbs seeds and plants specially created by Blue
Diamond Garden Centres. Working together for the love of nature.
Hello and welcome to the National Trust podcast. I'm Kate
Martin, lead ranger at the National Trust. And today, I'm
somewhere very different to my usual coastal workplace.
I've come to London, 80% of the UK population now live in urban
homes where many have limited or no access to green areas. So how
can we encourage nature to thrive in different ways? I'm
off to meet a couple of people who can show me how to grow in
unconventional urban spaces.
LONDON UNDERGROUND ANNOUNCEMENT: The next station is Oxford
Circus.
KATE MARTIN: In November 2019, The Greater London Authority
reported that London has the lowest levels of green space
availability in all of the UK. Just 20% of London is made up of
publicly accessible parks even though 47% of the city's land
overall is classed as green space.
LONDON UNDERGROUND ANNOUNCEMENT: Please stand clear of the doors.
KATE MARTIN: I'm on the underground train now heading to
a London borough that can really see the evidence of inequality
to access to green space, which is Kensington and Chelsea.
I'm going to meet activist, local resident and gardener
Tayshan Hayden-Smith, who is trying to change all that. I've
got off the tube and I am walking through Meanwhile,
Gardens, I've been through all sorts of different landscapes.
I've been through a skate park, more sort of wooded areas and
now I'm somewhere different and this must be Tayshan - Hi, I'm
Kate.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Hey Kate, welcome.
KATE MARTIN: Thank you. This is just glorious. So where we are,
I'm stood by beautiful ponds, surrounded by colourful bushes
and trees, but also surrounded by high rise buildings.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Yeah. Well, this is the iconic
Trellick Tower which overlooks this garden almost guards it in
ways. And what's like really does stand out to me is the
biodiversity of especially the trees in this space. You've got
cherries, eucalyptus over there. You've got mimosa, a new thing
to see at every corner really.
KATE MARTIN: And so this area is called Meanwhile Gardens. So why
Meanwhile?
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: So in the seventies, a gentleman called
Jamie Mcculloch, I think he was just passing on Great Western
Road and saw this derelict kind of unused, barren bit of land.
And so he came in here and decided that he was gonna turn
it into a beautiful garden for the community and he asked
permission for the council to do something with it. In the
meanwhile, hence the name Meanwhile Gardens and it's just
flourished since then. I'd like to think it's more than
meanwhile, now.
KATE MARTIN: It certainly looks pretty well established to me. I
don't think I'd think it was a meanwhile place.
So, what's your involvement with this wonderful garden?
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: This is a space that I've cherished
growing up. Often as a youngster, I'd be up to so much
mischief in Meanwhile Gardens, whether it's kind of running
through here or there's a skate park just down, down over there.
So I used to come with a few friends play a bit of football.
But, yeah, as I've got older, I've come to really appreciate
it for the colour, the character, the nature, the
wildlife.
And, I just think it's a really amazing sanctuary. You've got a
railway track over there. You've got a busy road over there. You
could probably hear the police sirens here and there, but
actually within this space, all of that is forgotten. And that's
just a rarity in inner city London.
KATE MARTIN: It's incredibly peaceful. I mean, I am a country
girl. So to me, you know,
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: You're back at home
KATE MARTIN: I am, it's beautiful. I mean, this is
obviously something that's really important to you. Where
does the sort of love, I suppose, gardening and the
outdoors come from.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: My mum had a massive influence on my
adoration for nature. My mum was terminally ill from when I was
like 12-13 years old. I think that completely flipped the way
that she saw life.
She had, she was a single mother of four of us. we lived in a
council house and, you know, I think she really started to hone
in on just how healing nature can be and it wouldn't be that
mum sat us down at the table and went right.
You're gonna have to understand how nature heals you and how it,
no, it was just in the way that she acted in a way that she did
things and how engaged she was with the natural environment.
Walking to school, she'd change her routes every time so that
the routes were scenic and she would go, oh, you know, look at
the beautiful bark on that tree. And she had this thing for bird
song.
She would ask us what the birds were saying, what, what were
they singing today? Which kept us really engaged and connected.
And at times, obviously, we would shrug it off and go, oh, I
like no one cares about that. Leave us alone. But it really
has planted that seed. When I was growing up, my, my ambition
was to be a footballer.
And at about 14-15, I realized, OK, this is something that I
could really make a career of. I mean by no means was I a premier
league footballer. But I went through certain academies so
played for Brentford, QQR, been at Wimbledon, had stints at
Newcastle and then finally got my break in about 2015/2016
where I signed for a third division, Austrian club called
FC Kitzbuhel.
Things had suddenly started to fall into place. So I was, you
know, playing professional football and I was looking ahead
to playing in the season after - I think we had one more game
left.
And I, I remember on the night of June the 14th, 2017, my
phone, maybe at about midnight, started pinging off and I was
thinking, you know, who's trying to get hold of me at this time,
you know what's going on. And it was my sister who'd sent a
picture of quite a contained fire in Grenfell where my mum's
place is literally in the shadow of Grenfell.
So I had to get loads of other messages from loads of other
people. And it was quickly realized that this fire was
engulfing the Grenfell Tower, a place that I had kind of played
in at the base of Grenfell Tower. There was a place called
Green Pitch, which is a football pitch.
You catch me there every day. And so when I started to see
images of, of the building in flames, you know, not knowing
the impact of that, not knowing the consequence of that at the
time, I just made a decision, I'm gonna book the first flight
home. So I got back early in the morning of the 15th.
It came back to absolute chaos. This still burning building
with, with people running around trying to find their children,
trying to find their, their mothers, their friends. And so
in those moments, people took to the streets in search for
justice, for understanding and in search for solace.
It was in those moments that nature came to my rescue. It all
started with just picking up litter from this, this barren
derelict patch of land.
People would see me and they would come and join me and that
would then create a softer access point to having
conversations. And there was something so unique about how
nature allowed people to connect despite you know, their
differences.
It doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, your age,
your culture, your background, your religion, this garden was
welcoming to all. That, that epitomises Ladbroke Grove. You
know, this was just the way that we were instinctively reacting
to something so traumatic, something so tragic where 72
people had lost their lives. Nature just became the the
healer for all.
KATE MARTIN: When people think of a community garden, they
might not necessarily think of an open access area, they might
think it's not really for them. So how important is it for you
that people do recognize that this area is for anybody.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: There's these perceptions around who can
be a gardener, who can be in nature that are really divisive
and offensive and not so kind and, and I guess by existing in
that space, I was breaking those barriers down, but I still felt
a sense of oh like this doesn't feel familiar.
What will my friends think of me? How have I got from playing
football to now, you know, planting flowers and it's just
about building those bridges and connecting people in with these
spaces so that they feel like they have a sense of place.
You know, if you think about someone, who's living in
Trellick Tower who's in, like, let's say survival mode, you
know, maybe there, you know, just trying to put food on the
table, you know, what business do they have, you know, what
time do they have in bringing their kids to this space or
coming down to this space?
Well, actually, we need to all work as a community collectively
to try and create that capacity for people to engage a space
like this. To better their mental health, their physical
health, their well being, you know, air pollution and having a
say in that, having a say on wildlife and biodiversity and
creating these corridors for pollinators and wildlife and
insects to, to exist, you know, because it's all about
coexistence and these spaces allow that.
So we've got to see ourselves as part of the ecosystem rather
than outside of it.
KATE MARTIN: I think nature is a common language. There's
something sort of primal in all of us, doesn't matter where you
are, what your background is. You know, I think everybody
feels moved in some way when you're out in a place such as
this.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Nature is a right. It's not a luxury. It's
just about making people feel comfortable in that. You may see
concrete every day, but look at the tree as you walk past it,
look at its form, look at the leaves. It's just about engaging
your, your senses really.
You know, and I make the link between, like with my boys, we
all grew up playing football in parks, using trees as goalposts
and you know, your bent shot going into a bush and you have
to wade through it.
All of that is access to nature. It's just about changing the way
that we see it, the way that we think about it and every one of
those experiences, no matter how big or small they're all so
important, we all deserve safe healing, beautiful space.
KATE MARTIN: You know, because you're doing it on the ground,
grassroots, you must see that direct impact it has on people's
lives.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: I kind of see myself on the side of the
fence of the people that I'm trying to help. I live in a
council flat with two young children - access to nature is
limited. I struggle to find capacity within my own
situation, let alone what I'm advocating for.
So I'm a bit of a hypocrite in ways but seeing how some of the
projects, some of the activations, some of the
campaigns and the impact that it's had on community has been
really heartwarming.
We did a, a garden in a local school. There's a green roof in
there. There's lots of trees, there's fruiting trees and
shrubs and bushes.
The children use it every day and when I go in there to do a
bit of maintenance work where we have to shut it off, maybe for
an hour they'll all be with their faces up to the fence
going like, can we have our garden back? Like, and that
really speaks to that sense of ownership and the communities
that it benefits, they should be involved in that.
KATE MARTIN: We've walked through all these beautiful
gardens and they're really varied. We went through one that
I like a tiled floor and everything. It was amazing. And
now we finished up in what can be decided is a beautiful sunny
little courtyard. It's absolutely gorgeous.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: This is actually a seat that I was I
helped build.
KATE MARTIN: Oh amazing, it's like a planter bench.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Yeah. So the idea is taking some really
simple materials to create nature immersion. And just to
sit down and relax and have a chat.
KATE MARTIN: Fantastic! And we're surrounded by herbs
mainly, some chives.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: You've got thyme over here. Rub your hands
through that.
KATE MARTIN: I love that smell.
So is there ways that people can kind of bring nature into their
space indoors?
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: A window sill can bring so much beauty
and so much produce. It could also enable wildlife. But then
there's also balconies or rooftops. Rooftops often have
full sun so great for growing stuff then and also shared
space. And if space doesn't feel shared or is gated, ask the
question, get to know your neighbours, get to know people
in your community.
But I, I always say that the first point of access comes from
understanding and observation. And so this is something that I
like to call the small space revolution. And when we talk
about space, we're talking about spatial space, we're talking
about mental space, spiritual space. It's all about really
creating that capacity.
KATE MARTIN: If someone says'garden' to me, I do think
of somebody's perfectly manicured lawns with lovely
little perfectly regimented plants that go all around it.
But I think one of the things that you've described so
beautifully as you've gone through today is that a garden
can be anything. And I suppose it's about just changing that
mindset.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: And it's really just creating those easy
entry points for people to understand that it's not take a
step into, you already are nature. You're already part of
the garden.
But we have to help people on that journey really support the
most marginalized people and the most disconnected people and the
most detached people from nature.
KATE MARTIN: Then once you've opened that door, then they can
find their own path from there, can't they?
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Exactly. And hopefully that path is full
of flowers and bees and butterflies.
KATE MARTIN: Fingers crossed.
Community gardens are an incredible access point for
nature and urban landscapes. I'd like to explore the idea of
bringing nature inside our homes and growing in more challenging
spaces.
I've headed east and come to Hackney, a London borough that
makes me think of music, art, great bars, pubs, restaurants,
and very cool creative residents. But surprisingly,
it's also home to a unique National Trust property.
One of London's last remaining Tudor Houses. Sutton House is a
three story red brick building that as you can hear buses, cars
and bikes whiz past on the busy road it sits on. It's opposite a
college and within walking distance to a hospital, it
really is an unexpected gem. And even more unexpected is the
award winning garden next door that just 10 years ago was an
industrial wasteland. And that's what I've come to see.
Hello, you must be Ryan.
RYAN MACMAHON: Hi, Kate. Good to see you.
KATE MARTIN: You too. So you're the site manager here at Sutton
House. So tell me a bit about it.
RYAN MACMAHON: Yes, that's right. So Sutton House is
originally a Tudor residence. It was built in 1535. It's
undergone a lot of changes since then. It's been a school. It's
been a church institute and in the 1980s, it was used as a
squat by the local community.
KATE MARTIN: So the history of the house sounds very
interesting. But what I've come to see is the garden.
RYAN MACMAHON: Well, we can go through these gates and I've
also got Chris who is one of our garden volunteers.
KATE MARTIN: Hello, Chris, nice to meet you.
CHRIS : Hello Kate, and you.
KATE MARTIN: The first thing I noticed are these big metal
industrial looking gates.
RYAN MACMAHON: Yes. So these gates are a hint to the
industrial past of this space. So it was actually used as a car
breaker yard in the 1990s and early 2000s before being given
to the National Trust.
KATE MARTIN: And it is a really interesting garden. I can't see
any grass, but I can see fantastic paved walkway and
plants grown in every conceivable type of container,
including what looked like cattle troughs, old trailers.
There's tyres.
CHRIS : Yes. Being that it was a breaker's yard, the grounds very
contaminated. So that's why they're all in containers.
KATE MARTIN: Well, I'm keen to see more of this Chris as we
sort of move on in. I imagine that there were probably all the
challenges working in this sort of environment.
CHRIS : I mean, with everything in needs to be in planters,
there's a lot of watering. And the ground, you know, it's
gravel, it all gets quite hot at times and you find the plants
start drying out and things you need to keep on top of them and
we've got a quite a bit of sun around here at the moment.
But the problem is in this area in the city, it does get shaded
by other buildings. So you have to be careful what plants you
plant. So they thrive. I mean, it's quite an interesting one
here, which is a curry plant.
You might be able to smell it, it is quite powerful.
KATE MARTIN: Oh, wow. Really strong, almost looks like sort
of pasty lavender. But it smells very different and it seems to
grow very nicely in it in its trailer.
One of the things that I am absolutely blown away by is the
trees. You don't really think about trees growing in pots or,
or containers. And in fact, is that a palm tree?
CHRIS : Yeah, there's a palm type tree.
KATE MARTIN: I was not expecting to see a palm tree in London.
CHRIS : It really is a reference to what was in Hackney in the
18th and 19th century - the Loddiges nurseries and they were
a family who had nurseries and they bought plants from around
the world and set up greenhouses and glass houses off Mayer
Street.
KATE MARTIN: I think people think of when they're thinking
about gardens, think about National Trust Gardens and they
think about these massive spaces and there's like, you know, a
nice shrub there and then there's a nice shrub there. And
this just shows that, you know, you can think vertically as well
as horizontally when you planted gardens and it's particularly
important in urban places like this.
CHRIS : That's the thing really.
KATE MARTIN: So what's really sad to me is that Friends of the
Earth estimate that roughly one in five of us in the UK are
deprived of green space. And I found that absolutely
heartbreaking. But I think this garden is such a great example
of how you can grow and actually get plants to absolutely thrive
in quite an unusual industrial urban space. So, is there any
other plants that grow well sort of, in confined spaces, indoors?
CHRIS : Yes mint is a good plant
RYAN MACMAHON: If you want to follow me through to the
courtyard.
KATE MARTIN: Oh, wow. What a completely different space.
RYAN MACMAHON: Yeah. Really unexpected here in the middle of
the building. It's not quite silent but it's as quiet as you
could hope to get in a bustling part of London like Hackney.
KATE MARTIN: Loads and loads of plants. There's a bay tree
behind me in a big planter, a beautiful holly tree over there.
But I'm intrigued by the mint.
CHRIS : You get a great variety of different mints. You get the
usual ones like spear mint. But our most interesting one,
probably the chocolate mint.
KATE MARTIN: Oo Chocolate mint.
CHRIS : I'll just take a leaf off. See what you think.
KATE MARTIN: Roll it, gonna get the oils out.
Chocolate is exactly what it smells like. Smells just like an
After Eight or a Twilight.
So, what else have we got?
SPK_5: Well, it's quite an interesting one along here,
actually. It is actually very strong and it's a bit
reminiscent of certain toilet cleaners.
KATE MARTIN: You're really selling it! Oh, wow. Yeah, I get
it. It just smells like really lemony. I mean, I would have
said maybe lemon grass or lemon balm and not toilet cleaner.
Each to their own. Is mint good for growing in containers?
CHRIS : Yeah, I mean, it's quite a hardy plant and really, you
need to put it in a container. You shouldn't really put it in
the ground because it will spread and then it's quite
difficult to get rid of, it takes over your garden.
KATE MARTIN: And I think obviously what's great about
mint particularly is, you know, I'm assuming most of these are
edible. Yeah. So you can grow it on your windowsill, do a bit of
cooking. Or if you like me, enjoy a nice Mojito
CHRIS : You can get it from supermarkets and then just keep
growing.
KATE MARTIN: Yes it doesn't have to be expensive. I mean, I've
inherited plants, you know, particularly a lot of the indoor
plants like aloe vera or spider plants, somebody will have one
and you just take a cutting and, you know, it's a case of paying
for a plastic pot, a little bit of compost and off you go.
CHRIS : And I mean, that's what you can do with many plants. So
you can propagate them just by taking a fresh leaf off and
then, you know, sometimes just putting them in a bit of soil
and keeping the water and see how they go.
KATE MARTIN: Yeah, you can try these things and see what works
and learn from your mistakes as we all do as gardeners.
CHRIS : That's it yes.
KATE MARTIN: I actually look after a Tudor house with gardens
up north. It doesn't look like this in any way, shape or form.
And I think this is just eye opening and wonderful to see
what you have managed to do in a really unusual space, growing in
a really different way. So thank you both so much for showing me
around, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Spending the morning with Tayshan in the Meanwhile Gardens
and then coming to see the work here that's done in the
Breaker's Yard has really opened my eyes to what can be grown in
what are quite unconventional and small urban places.
I'm a ranger and you know, for us, we like to let nature grow
where it wants to, how it wants to. But that isn't something
that can be done necessarily in these urban areas.
So being able to see what can be done in these small places and
seeing the benefit that has to the people who live here, to the
communities and also for the climate in general is absolutely
inspirational.
Thank you for listening to the National Trust podcast. If you'd
like to learn how to garden in unconventional or urban spaces,
please check out the links and resources in our episode show
notes or search for gardening tips on our website. To make
sure you get new episodes of this podcast, follow or
subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be back soon.
But for now from me, Kate Martin, goodbye.
Fill your garden with beauty and heritage with the National Trust
Native Tree Collection, specially created by Blue
Diamond Garden Centres. Working together for the Love Of Nature.