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Hello and welcome to Revolutionize Your Love Life.

Do you want to know more about love relationships?

What makes them work?

How to create the one of your best dreams?

Do you want to be in a really healthy,

juicy love relationship?

In these podcasts, we will give ideas and

practical advice to light your way.

Whether you're looking for a love partner,

already in a relationship, you wish could be better.

Or leaving one that has run its course.

There will be something to inspire, empower and support you.

Revolutionize Your Love Life is a fortnightly podcast

where you will access the knowledge and wisdom of love,

experts and relationship coaches from across the world

to help you find true fulfillment in love.

I am your host, Heather Garbett.

Welcome.

How do you know you are in toxic relationship?

In this podcast, we'll be exploring toxicity,

narcissism and how you can recognize toxic behavior.

This is part of our series,

looking at the qualities of healthy and unhealthy relationships.

I am Heather Garbett.

And I am Eva Andriessen.

And together, we are relationship coaches.

So, do you feel unhappy in your relationship?

Or do you even feel that you suffer

and maybe the first sign of toxic relationship?

Because it's actually not normal to feel fear,

obligation or guilt in relationships.

Usually we call it fog, that we experience fog,

like that we can't even breathe

because we feel that fear, obligation or guilt.

And it's really like not normal to have the fear

that you can't say something or that you have worried

about your partner, we react on your request, for example.

Yes, and the fog is also what we experience in our minds.

Where we can't think what is reasonable

and what isn't reasonable, if our needs are too much.

You know, there are basic needs

that we all need to have fulfilled.

And they are for things like respect, love being listened to,

having our needs recognized,

having our good qualities recognized,

having our requests recognized.

And if those things aren't present

and with a willingness to resolve conflict

and have to have several conversations, if we need to,

what have we got a toxic relationship?

Yes, and sometimes we doubt that we can have this,

that is it really possible to have something

but we just said in our relationship,

because sometimes when we didn't have it as kids,

we don't expect to have it in our relationships.

Because if we experience that fear already

when we were little, or that not really safety

or we were feeling guilty of because of our parents

were angry all the time, we just take this

into our relationships.

And actually, we don't know what is healthy and normal

because we experience a lot of punishments already

and a lot of criticism in our childhood.

So it's the thing that the toxic relationship

is not only what we experience with our partners

in love relationship, but we also can experience

with our parents, with our siblings,

even with the boss or calling in your workplace.

So there is, you can explain it through all the society,

actually through the research,

I heard that there is about 30% toxic

in our society.

- Yeah.

And there's a spectrum of that, I suppose,

in some ways you could see it's called bullying.

And that can be literal in terms of physical harm.

It can be emotional in terms of manipulative behavior,

manipulating your feelings against you

and that can have a mental effect as well.

It can be financial, it can be restricting your freedoms.

There are lots of ways it can be expressed.

- Yeah.

And I would say that like the hardest experience

what we have in relationship is when your partner

or even your colleague or sibling is narcissist.

Because this is really a relationship

about power and control.

You know, and it's so confusing

because narcissists, people are usually very charming.

And at the beginning of the relationship day,

you experience love bombing, you experience like,

"Oh, this is my soul man.

"He is so nice to me.

"He is like so great person."

And suddenly it changed tonight, a matter of hell.

And you are confused.

What is wrong?

Usually people say, "Oh, what is wrong with me?

"He changed.

"I need to be better.

"I need to prove it.

"I'm good that he's good again."

And usually we take responsibility

because usually an artistic people

actually choose the first people with high empathy.

Do you agree Heather?

- Yes, absolutely.

They'll choose people who are empathic.

No, I count myself amongst that.

Because we're likely to want to please.

We want to take care of.

We really feel these for the other person.

And we want them to feel good.

And we're likely as well to be potentially

a little bit sacrificial.

So we are ripe for the picking for a narcissist.

And I loved what you said, Abba,

about them really knowing who we are and how to choose us.

- Yeah, usually I choose very, very good people.

When I could see through my experience with my clients

that they know who to choose

because they need someone,

which is really good because they want them

as their source of their like improvement

or like they like need somebody

who can really do a lot of stuff for them.

So they need very strong and reliable person.

But actually because of that effect of the narcissism,

usually that people can't stay so like in their self,

in their true self.

Because they experience later on

a lot of gaslighting or punishment or humiliation

or high criticism because it's what narcissists do.

And we take it personally.

We take responsibility for a lot of stuff as the empath,

empath people.

Actually, we got very down

and we start to completely doubt ourselves.

Even if the people were very confident at the beginning,

they start to completely doubt ourselves.

And if I can add one more thing,

it's like I can see how it's like dangerous,

really dangerous for also for our health.

Because I know so many people,

they ended up with depressions,

very back pains, cancer or other,

like other illnesses or pain.

- Yeah.

The illnesses of huge stress.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

And the narcissists is a very insecure person.

So they are at all costs going to protect themselves

because if they feel in any way shamed or blamed

or held to be responsible for their behavior,

they come out really defensive and attacking.

They can't bear, they would collapse and cave in

if they took some responsibility

and admitted any sort of being at fault.

So when they come out gaslighting or punishing,

it's from a fight or flight mechanism

which is so powerful for an empath to receive.

Just huge, just huge.

- Yeah.

- And the beginning piece where they're love bombing you,

they're very highly skilled at listening and understanding

what it is that you want from a relationship.

And they can manage that for maybe six months or so.

- Even longer sometimes I heard,

even like for like even two, three years.

- Yeah, a couple of years, yeah, because so it's so dangerous

and invisible, but they are actually red flags hidden here.

We can notice that I bring, it would like to name them,

let's say about them.

- Some red flags, I think.

- Go on.

- Which we can notice already from the beginning,

but they are so invisible if we don't know about it, yeah?

- Yes.

I would look for if they walk their talk with other people.

For me, I always look at how they treat waiting staff

at tables, how they negotiate if something is wrong,

if they go into a real victim position

and come out aggressively.

I mean, I know a lot of people have these qualities

when they're insecure, but the quality of it is sort of

like ruthless, absolute determination.

And you'll notice that even in the early stages,

you'll notice how they treat other people and be a bit,

what?

You know, did they really do that?

But you'll probably suppress it

because they're being so charming to you.

I think there's even a book called

Charming Men Make Dangerous Lovers.

Charming women do as well.

- Yes.

Yeah.

And also sometimes, do they already start

to control or manipulate your eye from the beginning?

Like, oh, maybe don't take these deaths

that other deaths are better.

Or we go to this restaurant, this is the best restaurant.

They always disagree with what you say,

but in nicely like, vague.

And suddenly, it's rising everything

it's according what they want.

Yeah, so that is also very subtle.

It's sometimes like because they do it

in that bombarding way.

So that you can't see that it's something like control

already from the right beginning.

- And there's the steady peeling you away

from any other people in your life

that will love and support you.

So they'll go into a victim state

when I don't know if you're out with your girlfriends.

They'll come and text you all evening saying,

"How could you leave me?

"How could you go out?"

And then other times it'll be,

"Are you really putting your mum and dad before me?"

Before us.

If it's a real relationship,

you wouldn't be doing that.

So it's that subtle stuff and non-too subtle.

If you see it at the beginning,

it's like a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

But by the time you've had the water dripped on the stone

in that nice way that you're talking about,

"Oh, not that dress, this dress."

Then you're like the proverbial frog being boiled in water.

You don't notice when it's cold

and you're dead by the time it's really heated up.

- I like this expression, yeah.

It's so true actually in this case

because it's so long, invisible

that actually I people are in the end

like boiling them so in hot water.

But at the beginning, they warm it up very slowly.

Another thing, it's like change your mind

in the first days or say no to stuff

or say what you don't like about what they said, for example.

You will always see the reaction.

And sometimes what we do at the beginning of relationships,

we ignore the zet flags

because we like say to ourselves,

"Oh, yes, we're under good qualities."

Yeah, but really observe what is happening.

How do you feel around it?

Because I would, I think that it's so important

to really create hell's relationship.

It's be connected to yourself, to your feelings,

to your needs, to be clear what you really want.

And if you are disconnected, you can't realize

and you can't realize and recognize this red flags.

Because, yeah.

Yeah, you become complicit in it.

By giving away your power consistently,

by not speaking up, by not honoring your own feelings

and needs, by putting them first more or less exclusively,

then you're making sure the relationship

turns out like that.

If they weren't like that already,

if you keep doing that, they're likely to get worse

and be more like that.

Yeah, definitely.

So really, be aware what is happening with you,

what do you want to create in your relationship?

Because we, me and I had a very nice stand

for healthy relationship, equal relationship.

And actually, in toxic relationship,

there is always the domination.

It can be like the one dominate with aggression

or criticism or punishments.

And this can be also that more unrecognized domination

but like secret domination, yeah?

That you stop talking

or like you can send messages through kids

and other stuff of the passive domination,

which is also very dangerous

and also doesn't belong to the healthy relationship.

And if you have this pattern maybe from your childhood

and you want to work on it,

because you know that it's like your pattern,

you are willing to work on it.

But the unhealthy person or toxic person

doesn't want to do anything with that.

Because they are not ever of the impact in my heaven you.

They don't bother because they only care about themselves.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Yes, I was thinking a little bit more

out the qualities in empaths

which make us a bit susceptible.

And I think it's because we're so

just having and caring and feeling for others people.

We might have a little bit of grandiosity

that we can really rescue others.

And if we're going into a relationship

with somebody who's narcissistic and toxic,

we might think, well, we're the one to heal them.

I'm sure we can work through some of this terrible stuff

that's happened to them.

You know, their ex-wives are always out to get them.

You know, that awful bank manager

who's persecuting them for an unpaid loan

or the law is after them, they've got it all wrong.

We may believe all those stories and think,

this poor person has had so much happen to them.

How can I help?

Whereas in fact, they've had all that happen to them

because they behaved so badly.

We're responsibly, negatively.

Yeah.

And also sometimes they really lie.

There are big liars and cradle-to-tof stories

which are not true.

And they like to be victims to get the power.

So if they know that you want,

they can actually feel that you can save them

or that you want to have this rescue pattern within you.

So they would play victim to really get you, you know?

And always, I think that it's also what they use

as they're like another trick.

Like if they feel that they are losing you

or that you realize them, they start to be victims

or like, "Oh, poor me.

Nobody likes me.

I am happy that you like me, that you support me."

And of course, they are so good to hook you in.

Yeah, they really hook you.

And it's so hard to leave these relationships

because you're really hooked in, how we say it.

Because there is so big confusion

between their great part and the horrible part.

And we don't know what to do with that

because when we want to leave,

then we usually start to behave again very nicely.

Yeah.

- Yes, they are very seductive.

They're very seductive.

There's a phrase which is called narcissistic supply.

And it's when you leave them,

they feel the lack of the supply

that you're giving them, which is for love

and nourishment and adoration,

which is what they crave,

some sort of recognition of their grandeur really,

how important they are,

which is obviously what's been lacking in their childhood.

But by projecting that out onto you,

they're never gonna get it.

They're never gonna get it.

You can't supply it.

- And the thing is, you can't change them.

They will not change.

This is the thing that so many people try to change them

and help them and save them and support them.

Actually, what I heard from so many different people

and leaders of this topic in the world,

that it's not possible.

They can't change actually in this time, time, life,

lifetime, because they don't have the self-reflection.

They don't have the empathy.

They actually, it's so strong habits

that they created to protect themselves,

that they can't really change it.

And so many people try it.

And it's really not possible.

And I know I have so many clients

who want to be the first one,

who will change them or support them in their change.

And there's always so much disappointment in that.

What do you experience with your clients?

How do you see it?

- Absolutely.

If you feel, you know,

when you're going into a relationship,

I've seen this in my clients, for sure.

If you're going into a relationship

with somebody that has great need,

there's usually some drama in the background,

either with exes or situations or immigration,

you know, something where they really need you.

And you're the answer to their prayers

and you're so wonderful.

And then the envious attacks come in,

just pulling you down,

because they can't afford to lose you.

They want to really hold on to you.

- Yeah, and also, sorry.

- Yeah, I hope so.

- They also idolize you.

So when you actually don't fulfill their expectations,

which is impossible to fulfill,

they get so disappointed.

Disappointment is appointed that they start

to cause lightning or punish you or criticize you

because you feel very bad and wrong,

because you want to be that person.

But it's impossible because there is nothing good for them.

Everything can be better.

Everything could be even more like much more better

or different way or better way.

Or in like, for example,

if the fooder is too much vegetable

or not enough vegetable or wrong combination of vegetables.

- Yes, keeping you on the wrong foot.

- Yeah, definitely.

- Diminishing your confidence so you don't go away.

- Yeah, this is the thing.

And also sometimes when the kids are involved,

and again, they actually don't care so much

about the impact of their behavior on kids.

So it's again very hard to leave these people

because they use the control and power over the kids

to get control over you.

So yeah, if you realize that your end toxic relationship

and even with any narcissist,

it's always better to search for the support, help,

because it's hard to hold it on yourself.

And it's so sometimes important to actually know

what you face who is in front of you

because I think so many people don't know

that it can happen to them.

And then it's like we feel a power less or like a whole plus

with that situation because what to do now?

Yeah, so seek for help and support me

and our head can support you in this topic,

in this toxic relationships.

- And even if you've left before and gone back

because of the power of this manipulation,

you still can leave.

Now, your friends may be tired of seeing you come and go,

but if you can really resolve to leave,

don't tell your partner that you're leaving.

Just arrange it all beforehand, get the right support

from the Women's Aid organization in the UK can help.

There are lots of places that you can go

that will really support you to find a secure

and safe place to go and really involve your friends

and safe members of your family.

If it's anything connected with your family and leave.

- Yeah, and sometimes we really need to build

our self-confidence to do it

and have realized some financial reserves or support.

So it's important to be ready for this big step.

And also you need really be brave

and like we have somebody who will support you to do it

and then build new life from the right beginning.

And it's another topic probably.

But yeah, so today it was mostly about how to realize

the divine toxic relationship.

Because so many people don't know that it even exists,

that it's not normal to expense so much guilt,

obligation or fear in relationships.

And it's not normal to be gaslighted or punished.

And especially that it's not normal to expense violence.

- Thank you, Evan, that's lovely.

And watch out for our series.

We're going to be doing quite a few in a row

around healthy and unhealthy relationships.

Thank you so much for listening.

My website is www.ethergarbitt.com.

And Evers is...

- Everandriessen.com.

- There we go.

So thank you for listening.

Have a good day.

Bye for now.

- Thank you so much for listening

to this episode of Revolutionize Your Love Life.

I'd like to know what has been your biggest takeaway

from this conversation.

- Do take a minute and share this with us

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on my email at Heather@heathergarbitt.com.

If you can think of someone who will benefit

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please do share it with them.

If you have any feedback on how I can improve it,

please do reach out to me as I'm always keen to learn more.

- Thank you so much again for listening.

And we'll meet again on the next episode

of Revolutionize Your Love Life.

♪ You are good ♪

♪ You are good for my heart ♪

♪ You are good for my heart ♪

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