Bennett Maxwell (00:02.533) Hey, welcome to another episode of the deeper than no podcast. I'm super excited to have Amy Green Smith on the show. Amy, welcome.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (00:10.286) Hi, Bennett, I'm so excited to chat.

Bennett Maxwell (00:13.341) Amy, I don't know, I don't even, I can't even say excited. Just jumping on and your hat and your earrings. I'm just like, I love everything about the look and the feel. So if, can we start with just a minute or two of your background, wherever you want to take us.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (00:29.614) Sure. So I think like many of us who kind of end up in the personal development sphere, we have learned a lot of lessons the hard way and myself, my situation is very much the same. So for a bit of context, I think you and I have a bit of a similar upbringing story, but I grew up in a very conservative, born again Christian family. My father had a master's in divinity and a doctorate in ministry. So he was...

Not f****** around, as I like to say. And so for all intents and purposes, I really was kind of the good kid, right? Put myself through college, I was always, you know, working since I was 14, straight A student, all of that stuff, trying to be the pious good girl. And my brothers in direct opposition had a lot of difficult time with the law and were in jail and had a bunch of difficulties.

And that kind of came up later. So when I was, gosh, I was probably around 28. This was mid 2000s, 2007. My father passed away. And at the time, prior to going to visit my family, I would always talk to my partner about creating this artifice and let's put on this front, no cussing, no Jon Stewart, no South Park, no liberal agenda, like right? Like putting on this facade.

And when my father passed, I felt very convicted that I wanted to speak at his service, and there were hundreds of people there. But also, I felt very convicted that as somebody who had a makeup artistry background, that I wanted to do the makeup for his viewing. So yes, everybody, this is dead dad makeup talk right now on the show. Thank you for tuning in. So I...

do that, right? And so I'm feeling like I'm winning at daughter on this day, right? We get back home to my mom's house and the first thing that she thinks to share, after I've done dead dad makeup, I've spoken to this crowd of hundreds, I'm dealing with people laying their hands on me and all of this sort of religious dogma that I no longer subscribe to. And she finds it the most opportune time to say it feels as though.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (02:53.358) my father and her had failed as parents because the three of us lumping me in with my brothers who lived a completely different trajectory, the three of us were not, quote, walking with the Lord. We weren't subscribed to the faith traditions we were raised in. And I'll tell you what, Bennett, that was a very crucial moment. That was the only thing I could kind of muster at the time was to say, I don't think you should say that to a child.

And she said, well, that's just how I feel. And that was a pivotal moment because I realized that sometimes speaking up for yourself, sometimes establishing a boundary is an ultimatum. I don't think that's often the case. I really don't. However, in situations like this where push comes to shove and I need to decide between making you happy or making me happy, I'm going to choose me.

And that was the first time that I really said, you know what? I will incur whatever pain is present by actually speaking up for myself. I will take that. If she is going to carry the burden of my soul, knock yourself out. Like I'm chilling, I'm feeling good. And that really became a difference between recognizing that my wants, opinions and needs were just as important as anybody else's. But I'll tell you what.

Bennett Maxwell (04:07.837) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (04:19.278) It was a shit show after that. It was like this, the floodgates had opened up and now I wanted to talk about abortion. I wanted to talk about gay rights. I wanted to talk about all these things. And I think I also, you're laughing so I think you probably know exactly how this goes. But I think I was also bolstered by the fact that now it was one against one and I didn't have the two of them.

And I also respected my father's intellect and acumen a lot more than I did with my mom. So I didn't show up in a very powerful way, but it wasn't until, God, at least 10 years later that I had sort of this epiphany of, you can actually speak up for yourself with the utmost grace and kindness. You don't have to be combative and acerbic and biting.

and hurling insults. And what that looked like was me walking back my delivery, not walking back my stance, my opinion, but saying, hey, listen, I still feel really strongly about what we talked about the other day. However, I should have never said it to you in that way. And I think sometimes we have these sort of speaking up hangovers where we're so uncomfortable with.

that other person not agreeing with us or seeing things our way that we try to walk it all back. And that became a real clear line for me. And that's really informed the work that I do now, which is primarily twofold. It's this internal compass and concept of believing in your own intrinsic value, your own worth, enoughness as a person. And then the external piece of how do I now communicate with the outside world? What do boundaries sound like?

what's the anatomy of a difficult conversation? How do I say no without lying or being riddled with guilt? And so much of that is quite tethered to your worth. And yeah, so that's the long -winded answer for you, Bennett.

Bennett Maxwell (06:22.188) I was doing, I don't even know what we did. Some ketamine, maybe some mushrooms last week, kind of with a group of other business owners anyways. And kind of the topic of that, I feel like, you know, you gravitate towards something everybody's given their opinion. And this one is me, I think I'm starting a religion, because I preach so much on my beliefs and then.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (06:33.582) Nice.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (06:48.494) You

Bennett Maxwell (06:49.725) Two weeks later, they changed and everyone's like, what the hell? I'm like, I don't know. But it was all about the self worth. So it was a friend of mine owns her own business and has been doing, I mean her business for a decade or so. And it's, you know, always stressed about money. So let's work more, work more and work more. Because if I work more than I can resolve that. My belief is it's, the stress isn't from working or from money. It's your relationship.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (06:53.102) Ha ha!

Bennett Maxwell (07:19.517) with money and I was like, okay, well I can't ask for more money because it comes down to a self worth thing and I heard you say that. And it's like we attack, we'll work 80 hours in a week on our job but the real issue is our self worth and how much time are we spending on repairing our self worth? And the answer is usually zero hours and it's like, what? Why are we spending 80 hours over here and zero hours on that? But there is a question in this.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (07:26.286) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (07:48.526) Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (07:48.861) Do you feel like that is the root cause for most people? Like what causes anxiety or undue stress comes down to a self -worth issue?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (08:01.678) Well, I think that there's so much nuance there and I don't want, I always am hesitant to do a blanket statement because I think we have so many blanket statements in personal development that don't serve nuance. But I do feel very strongly that a majority of the reason why we struggle is because we are outsourcing our self -worth in some way. So.

immediately when you're telling me about your colleague, I'm thinking, okay, there is some sort of deep seated belief around you have to work hard in order to reap a benefit, right? Like I can't allow ease or everything that I come by has to be involved with struggle or I'm not deserving of wealth.

Bennett Maxwell (08:51.997) wasn't hard, it's not worth it. And you're like, I just read that again. Like all the hard things are, I mean, all the best things in life are behind a challenge. I'm like, who told you that? Like really though? You know, you could find truths into it, but it's like, no, you actually don't have to have a life of struggle and hardship to be happy because happiness is actually the opposite. It's having less, you know, perspective of, my life is very hard and I'm doing all of these hard things.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (09:02.062) Right. Right.

Bennett Maxwell (09:20.477) I can only achieve more if I only could be more than I could be happier. And I just, I don't know, I just never seen it really happen following that mindset, you know, of just have more money and then all your issues will be solved. Just be, have a nicer car and people will respect you more. I'm like, I just, I don't know. I don't buy into that.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (09:29.294) Well,

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (09:41.006) Well, this idea that struggle and hardship is how we accomplish things or get to our destination. It's one way. And for a lot of people, that has been the way that they made their first six figures or they opened their first company or whatever. And it's usually something that they, a skillset that they adopted earlier on in their youth.

as a defense mechanism, this is how I can stay relevant in my family of origin. This is how my partner views me with positive regard. This is how I stay relevant in my social group. And we start developing these behavioral tactics and we go, okay, overachieving is something that will give me worth. And again, it's something that we outsource. And it's not a bad thing, right? But neither is ease.

And I think that's the problem that happens is like, yeah, sometimes greatness is achieved on the backs of hard work. And sometimes it's achieved through ease. Sometimes it's achieved through a symbiotic relationship with somebody else where two people together just can grow and foster something. So I think we have to get out of this myopic view of, and it's a very patriarchal capitalist view of we have to hustle and force things into existence.

And yes, that can sometimes work and it's not the only option. There are other ways to succeed. But something that I think is really important to mention about this idea of self -worth. So the main area that I focus on or I would say largely focus on is in the field of communication. For so many people, speaking up for themselves is somewhat antithetical to people -pleasing, right?

we start showing up in a way, whether it's pleasing a culture, pleasing a family, whatever. And so we twist and contort and shape shift in order to check these things off of our list and go, well, I started this company, why don't I have all these feelings that I'm chasing? Why don't I have the feeling of freedom or euphoria or bliss or ecstasy? well, it's because my nervous system is fucking shot.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (12:01.87) And I haven't been on a date in five years. And like, we can look and see all of the ways that we're not catering to what our humanity actually needs for fulfillment. But we've been sold sort of this false, this notion of false goods, this idea that check all those boxes and you will be happy. It's like, no, check all those boxes and you will have a bunch of boxes checked.

Bennett Maxwell (12:25.853) Where is that coming from? Check all these boxes. Is that from a religious society? No, I mean, I'm thinking like Asian cultures aren't as, you know, at least Christianity and there's more Buddhism and Hindu, but like they also have that, right? It's also like achieve, everything has to be perfect. So maybe it's not a specific religion or religion in general, but any intuition as to where is that coming from in society?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (12:33.358) Mm.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (12:45.326) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (12:48.878) Yeah. Yeah.

Well, if we go way back, so the short answer to your question is yes to all of those things. Culturally, yes. We have so much societal pressure to achieve. And it's different depending on where you identify in the gender spectrum too. But if we look back at our primitive ancestors, in order to actually survive, you could not have a tribe of one. You had to be a part of an organized group for survival.

Which is where we get Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And one of our primitive human needs is one of belonging. And it stems from that idea that in order for us to survive, we had to be tethered to other humans. Well, now the way that has been interpreted to our nervous system, to our primitive fear responses, is that if somebody doesn't like us or approve of us,

The lizard brain goes, I might not survive this, right? It goes, I might die. Now that sign sounds hyperbolic. Of course we don't think if this person doesn't want to do a joint venture with me, I might die. No, but the brain still registers this is a threat. That's why we can't.

Bennett Maxwell (14:09.149) I mean, your body does react with the similar amounts of cortisol, like as if you're getting chased by a tiger and you're like, wait, wait, wait, I'm actually safe guys or body, which is, which is, I mean, I've been, you said, because your nervous system is shot. And I think that that's such a, I don't know, just a few months ago, I'm like, I'm really going to dive into nervous system. And I bought this thing that goes around my neck and it stimulates the vagus nerve. And I do it for 12 minutes and I'm sitting under a red light and I do non -sleep deep.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (14:18.19) That's right.

Bennett Maxwell (14:38.269) or yoga knee drive, which is some breath work and focusing, altering your focus of consciousness. And then after, it's like I went to sleep and woke back up after 20 minutes of doing something like that. And I do it once a day, sometimes twice a day. And I'm like, wow, I just need to calm down my freaking nervous system because it thinks it's dying when I'm completely safe. And that's definitely a battle.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (15:02.062) And I think what you're pointing to here is also why we have epic levels of autoimmune issues, thyroid issues, adrenal fatigue, chronic fatigue, and also I will mention our disproportionately affecting women. And I think it's, and I don't think it's something that is specific to only one gender, but we are now in a situation where

everything we do feels like a threat. It doesn't necessarily feel like a tiger coming at us, but it's if I don't have this report done by this weekend, if I don't pick up my kids by a specific time, if I don't handle this thing for the community that we're doing, right? Like all of this stuff feels like high stakes and on the nervous system front, we're not accessing our parasympathetic. So we're not having a come down. So.

what this looks like, if anybody can relate, the day you have an open day off, you cannot sit still. You're like, I should be organizing the garage. I should be doing right. Or your first couple of days of vacation, you cannot get off your email. You're just like, the nervous system is still on high alert. So it's not something to be mad at ourselves for, but it's to take information. It's data. It's not. It's I call this a systems failure.

where we think we're failing because we can't keep up or we can't hustle as hard as the next person. And it's like, no, the system is failing us, telling us that that's what leads to success or that's what we have to do in order to be enough or be valuable. And it really is a capitalism perspective too, right? Like, yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (16:45.821) when I was, absolutely. When I was mentioning before, you know, that we spend 40 to eight hours a week working because we feel like that's the problem, but that's not the problem. Then we spend zero hours on anything else. And that's where I'm like, maybe two, three months ago, I'm like, I'm going to, I was working maybe 40 hours. I'm like, I'm gonna work closer to 30 hours and spend that extra 10 hours specifically on my nervous system and on my physical health, which obviously, I mean,

I don't know the distinction between mental health and physical health because I'm like, well, the physical processes, one happens in your brain and the rest is the rest of your body, but your body is also the brain. Anyways, it's all connected to me. So I'm like, if I get on a vibration play just right before this, I'm literally, I'm long boarding. I'm like, crap, I got one minute to be home just because I wanted to go outside and get some sun. And I'm a weirdo in the middle of the day with my shirt off. But I'm like, who cares? I need some sun.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (17:20.046) Right.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (17:37.454) Yeah. Nice.

Bennett Maxwell (17:42.205) Makes me feel good. And I'm riding back and I go over puddle and it splashes me everywhere. But that was what I was doing one minute before we jumped on because I'm like, I just wasn't feeling amazing, right? So it's like, but I do know if I go move and I get in the sun, I feel amazing. And that's what I've been trying to gravitate more and more. And I would like to, you know, as you are coaching your clients, what role does, how much focus, I guess, do you, do you play on the exercise, nutrition, all of that?

when it comes to mental health and overcoming, you know, whatever challenges somebody's going through.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (18:16.846) Well, that is definitely out of my scope of practice as a coach and hypnotherapist. However, there is a lot of stuff that I can point them to. For example, caffeine, y 'all. Caffeine mimics anxiety. So if you have issues with anxiety, please consider mitigating caffeine. Consider eating

Bennett Maxwell (18:31.837) See you later, major.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (18:45.742) protein every two hours. It can be really, really good for energy levels and also for blood sugar. So there are certain things like that that I will share with people, but it also really depends on what they've got going on. Because if somebody is having like two cups of coffee in the morning and then diet cokes in the afternoon or whatever, I'm not going to tell them to get rid of all of that, right? I will start with like what actually feels doable.

Could we have half of the Coke or could we do half caffeine, half not for your coffee? But a majority of what I focus on are behavioral and environmental things that are related to how you speak to yourself, how you show up in the world, how you communicate. And we target a lot of that through both the conscious faculty of the mind and the subconscious. So.

with hypnosis will do a lot of stuff that's beneath the conscious faculty of the mind, the subconscious. And 90, it depends who you talk to, but 90 % of our mind's power is fueled by the subconscious mind. So the same reason why you can see a heart shape and you don't have to logically tell yourself that means love, that's emblematic of love. That's something that is already clocked in the subconscious mind.

So the same reason why those things are easy are also why it's so easy to people please or to be perfect or overachieve because we've computed a positive association with those behaviors somewhere along the line. So most commonly I talk about people pleasing, which is a total defense mechanism. So if we think back to family of origin, there are ways in which

we realize like, shit, if I have a really volatile parent or caregiver, if I walk on eggshells and make sure mom, dad, or grandpa, or whoever is happy with me, I stay safe. I can fly under the radar. I get my needs met. Well, then we keep doing those tactics in our relationships, in our friends' struggles, and in the businesses we create. So we have to remember that when we're starting to dismantle a relationship with a

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (21:10.19) disempowering belief, it's gotten us somewhere and it's likely kept us safe. So the idea of being mad at yourself or being pissed, yes, there's a grief element that's involved, but recognizing that everything that you've developed, even disempowering beliefs, even being a bully, is because that was the tool you had. You thought, this is the only way I can stay safe.

But we know that there are a lot of, speaking of religion, there are a lot of beliefs that we are grandmothered or grandfathered into without our consent, right? There's a lot of societal beliefs that we have just adopted against our consent or without our consent. So now we can have such a better perspective of, no, here's what I do want to believe and here's how I can nurture that.

Yeah, and you can target that with multiple areas of the mind.

Bennett Maxwell (22:07.032) I mean, yeah, good looking back at any, if I understood you correctly, you can look back at any mistake that you deem a mistake and say, no, I made the best decision that I was capable of making at that time to give yourself empathy, sympathy, grace. You could do the same thing with everybody else, which I find that has been my number one belief that I've adopted over the last just maybe two years, three years is

Everything that happened was a result of something else that happened, you know physics cause and effect including thoughts and we are no more than a makeup of our genetics and our environment and if you and I switched consciousness I would live your exact life and make all the mistakes you made and you do the same thing with me and If that's true, which I think it is then it's like there's no Somebody punches you in the face

or a tornado happens. You don't get mad at the tornado, because it's just a tornado, doing what tornadoes do, right? And if you can view other people's actions with that same kind of deterministic viewpoint, you know, you have values and every decision, it's made up with everything that you've done in the past, plus your genetics, plus your values, plus your hormones at that given time. Anyway, talk to me about your thought on that. I mean, I'm a, I think the whole,

Conscious free will is 1000 % an illusion, and I think it's a very empowering belief. But I also think it's very different than what most people believe.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (23:41.134) Well, first off, I'll say I do believe that everything happens for a reason, but I don't believe it's always a good reason. Right? And I think that's where we get a little stuck is in the... I think there's a way that those sorts of beliefs, and we see this a lot in the personal development sphere of like, you create your reality, all of those things, which absolutely is true and...

There are social implications that we have to look at because there are so many people who have so many other cards stacked against them in getting where they want to go. And I think it is a societal issue that we handle through legislation and voting. And then I think it's an individual issue of how do we handle our relationship with ourself. But something that I think is important to talk about with beliefs, period, is beliefs are not facts. They are a feeling of certainty, right?

So it does not matter really if it's true or not. I mean, that's what we see in religion all the time. It's does it work for you? Does that give you a sense of expansiveness? Does that give you what you are looking for? And most of us are looking for a feeling. We want to feel free. We want to feel happy, blissful, et cetera. But...

I think one of the things that we can't overlook here is responsibility. So just because somebody punches me in the face and I choose to let that go or I choose to move beyond that does not mean that I'm giving them free rein to go do that again. I can still impart a responsibility and say that's an unacceptable way to behave. And that's how I look at a lot of trauma, trauma in my own past as well.

But for many of us, we can see that in our parents and in different generational trauma. And we can go, yeah, my grandfather was in a fucking war. He took clothing off of dead soldiers that had been maimed and stuff. I can understand why he's aggressive, shuts down, is abusive, but that's not acceptable. So I think we still have to look at, yes, we always have agency and autonomy.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (25:58.862) and we're always responsible as well. So I can look at things that I did in my youth where I was maybe a bully or I did handle myself in the wrong way. And a lot of people will look back at that and go, you could have done better. And I'm like, no, I couldn't have because I didn't know that was an option. And it's understandable why I handled myself that way, but it's not acceptable. So there's a difference in recognizing like,

I understand why this happened and we need to put up safeguards, we need to put up legislation, we need to put up physical emotional boundaries with other people so as to mitigate harm, if that makes sense.

Bennett Maxwell (26:39.165) Yeah, yes. Going, okay, and I did want to ask you a little bit more about born again Christianity and as you left that and resentment, but as I'm getting into that, when I left the faith that I grew up in, and I was just telling you right before this, I was in it in a thousand percent. I moved to another different country and called home two times per year. I was gone for two years, had to speak Spanish, right?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (26:48.302) Ooh, okay.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (27:09.102) Mmm.

Bennett Maxwell (27:10.365) And then after I left, I just felt so deceived. I was like, man, I'm so, you know, I was kind of down on myself. I was like, man, I'm so gullible. Why didn't I just like think about this in a different perspective or read this? And then I was like, man, all of those guys are hypocrites because they don't even understand what they believe, you know, and they're not practicing all of their beliefs. And then I started getting into psychedelics and more about consciousness and analyzing my own thought pattern. And I never have.

ever known what I'm going to think before the thought consciously arises. Thoughts just pop up and then it's like, well, no, you could control if you dwell on it or not. Well, controlling to dwell on it is just another thought. And we don't ever know if we're gonna dwell on something until that thought arises. If we don't control our thoughts, there's no control over actions, which leaves consciousness as a blank state or slate or mirror. You're just observing an avatar. When I accepted that, then I could go look back at

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (27:43.95) Mm -hmm. Yep.

Bennett Maxwell (28:08.669) all the religious people that I felt deceived me and that were rude and were subliminy telling me, you know, I'm not worthy. And then I'm like, they didn't have bad intentions. They were just doing what they thought was the best too. And they are hypocrites and I am also hypocrite because I don't ever act accordance to all of my beliefs at any given time. So I kind of left, I had a lot of resentment and then I'm like, everybody's just doing the only thing that they can do. And that kind of helped me.

get over it. But anyways, love to hear about born again Christianity and resentment if there was, if there still is, how'd you get over that?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (28:46.094) Bennett, how much time do you have? So I think one of the things that feels very resonant to me that you just mentioned is I was enveloped by so much love growing up. And I never doubted that my parents were 100 % bought in to what they were sharing with us. So again, I think this is where we talk about

intent versus impact. Was their intention super pure -hearted and completely all about love and goodwill? Yes. And there was a lot of harm that was created. Purity culture in itself is one of the most detrimental things that I think we can do to just humanity, period. It's a detriment to any gender, really.

Bennett Maxwell (29:38.077) and say that you said purity culture.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (29:40.014) Yes, this idea that, you know, I mean, I was taught, like, you have sex when you get married, and if you do beforehand, it was sort of a trifecta. You would either get AIDS, get pregnant, or you would be so devastated by the piece of yourself that you gave to someone else. And I just want to say to everybody out there, there is no dick.

powerful enough to change your motherfucking self -worth. There is no pussy powerful enough to change your motherfucking self -worth. Full stop. So this, and then we demonized sexual expression. I mean, so much of that, I think is unbelievably harmful. So for me, there are a handful of things that I cannot be with.

One of them is I cannot be with worship. I just don't believe in praising or worshiping a deity. I don't believe in praising or worshiping anybody, really. Like to me that just, except unless my husband is worshiping that ass, hello. I told my friend that the other day and we had a good laugh about it. But yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (31:02.941) I'm definitely on the same page of like, or like, I remember I got in, like respect thy father and thy mother, you know, and somebody was telling, probably a, you know, Southern lady on some trip. And I'm just like, I don't believe in that at all. I believe you respect people who are respectable, not just because they were born. I mean, the whole, you're born imperfect. I was also born into, not only religiously I was imperfect, but,

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (31:18.958) No.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (31:23.822) Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (31:32.189) I still to this day owe my mom everything I do because she birthed me, in her words. And like, no, you have to do this because I birthed, I was like, I didn't ask you to have me. You actually, now that I'm a parent of three, I had kids for myself. I didn't have kids for them. I didn't even know who those guys were gonna be. But I came in now owing two debts. I owe Christ a debt, I don't know who that is, and I owe my mom a debt, neither of which I asked for. And I'm just like, man, I have an uphill climb to do.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (31:42.286) No.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (31:50.35) 100 %

Bennett Maxwell (32:01.437) I don't know why I was going off of that. the worship. Going off of the worship, whether it's a parent or anybody of authority, it's like, no, worship or I guess I'm using respect, if you feel they have respect. But other than that, I don't think there's any like, you just have to do it just cause.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (32:02.702) Yes. Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (32:20.302) That's right, yes. And I was, it was funny because I, so I went to a Christian school all growing up and in high school, we, one of our periods was always Bible. And I remember I had one instructor who was telling me the story, the absolutely unconscionable egregious story of Abraham and Isaac. And if you're not privy to this, you're so fucking lucky. But if you were marred with this story when you were a child, which by the way, can we talk about like,

getting eaten by whales, Daniel in the lion's den. Kids do not need to be carrying the burden of other people's souls, let alone be seeing all of that stuff. Ugh, yeah. But the whole story is that God is testing Abraham's love and says, I want you to sacrifice your son. I want you to kill him. And then at the very last minute,

as Abraham's about to do this, which in modern day society, when would we ever permit something like that? That is child abuse. And also that's a cult. If you have a cult leader who's telling you to kill other people, that's Manson shit, y 'all. So, and this is the God, this is the God. Okay, all right. Let's not mention all the genocide that has happened as well from this serial killer God. So he goes to,

about to kill Isaac, God miraculously stops him and says, your faith has been so great. And that's the moral of the story, that we should do whatever that God says. So I'm raising my hand going, you know, and this professor had just had a kid. And I said, so you're telling me that if God told you to kill your child that you just had, you'd be up for that?

And to me, I feel like that is such a slap in the face to critical thinking and cognitive capacity. Like, no, we can discern whether or not that is an appropriate behavior or not. We don't need a deity who wants to test our love. Where in our life would we ever, if we were friends and you wanted to say like, I'm gonna test Amy to see if she's.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (34:35.278) gonna come through for me on this business deal and try to do some snaky thing to catch me, I'd be like, fuck all the way off, Bennett.

Bennett Maxwell (34:43.453) Yeah, nobody's doing, yeah, we're not doing those tests. Do people really believe in the Bible though, or is it like, I believe in the stories and the symbolism, and this is the way that people communicated back then because they didn't have other methods of explaining it. And obviously there are, because I have a buddy that I brought up that same thing in Noah's Ark, and he's like, no, that was real. And I was like, really? No, there's no way you believe in that. And then he navigated around the world and made sure to drop off the.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (34:46.062) Yes.

Bennett Maxwell (35:12.285) kangaroos in Australia? Like, what? But, you know, aside from that, I feel like most people view it as stories and not literal. But there's definitely people that view it as literal when it's like, yeah, where's your critical thinking? Why don't you use any other logic that you use for the rest of your life and just apply it to this as well? But I do know the answer because if they do, they not only are a bad person, they have a bad soul. And that's where morals come in. Which I don't believe in like a

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (35:20.91) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (35:31.31) Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (35:42.269) I don't believe in a soul, so I don't believe in good or bad souls. I don't believe in good or bad anything. It's all just perspective. I think they're sick people that their brains are not functioning the way that it's better for all of society. I don't think there's any inherently bad people or morally bad people that are gonna be damned because they are a pedophile. And it's like, man, who chooses to be a pedophile? And that's a terrible life. And I'm just glad that I don't get aroused by the things that they get aroused from.

and then you kind of flip that you're like, I don't hate them anymore and I want to kill them for being a pedophile. I'm very grateful that I'm just lucky that I'm not.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (36:21.102) And I think that's, again, because if you look at statistics of who ends up as a, I watch a little too much True Crime, but a serial killer, sociopathy, antisocial personality disorder, a lot of it is informed from extreme trauma. And so again, it comes down to that's understandable, but it's not acceptable.

Right? It's understandable why you might have developed certain coping mechanisms that cause harm to other people based off of what you've gone through. And you're still responsible for that behavior. I do believe in a soul. And again, it's a belief. It's not a fact. It's something that feels good to me. And also, I don't need that to be a decent human or to have a moral compass. That's the other thing that I think gets really lost is you don't need

a source of dogma in order to follow intuition and to genuinely be a kind human. That is, I mean, it's normal.

Bennett Maxwell (37:21.245) I mean, you do out of self -interest. I'm a good human, not because I fear for, I mean, I've heard that before. It's like, wait, you don't believe in a God? What keeps you from just being a terrible person and raping and killing? You're like, if the only thing keeping you from raping and killing is an imaginary dude up there, you are the psycho, not me. I don't do that because I know if I kill somebody, either I'm caught or I live in fear of being caught. But it comes down to self -interest.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (37:41.23) That's right.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (37:47.502) Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (37:50.461) I do believe that everything we've ever done is for complete self -interest. Is it immediate self -interest or is it delayed self -interest? Delayed self -interest is I'm gonna wipe my child's butt when I don't really want to do that, but it does make me feel good to take care of him. But I can't say that it's not out of self -interest because I'm getting something out of it. And I think that's how every action that we've ever taken is. And it's really nice to be in the presence of somebody that you could...

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (38:09.614) Right.

Bennett Maxwell (38:19.325) that they're not gonna be a people pleaser, that they're gonna tell you their wants and needs and then you decide if you want to help them or not. But like the whole, are you sure you wanna do this? Are you sure? It's just like, no, you be straight with me, I'll be straight with you, and we can both trust each other to be selfish. For me, that's a much better relationship.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (38:40.27) Yeah, it's funny. I think it's Ricky Gervais who talks about this same dynamic where he says, I rape as much as I want to, which is none. I murder as much as I want to, which is none. An absence of a deity has no bearing on how much I want to murder. You know what I mean? So yeah, I think, and to your question a while back, I do think that there are people who believe it literally. And I grew up with that.

where it was no. Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (39:10.557) sure people out there. I just, I'm hoping it's less than 5 % of the population.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (39:16.078) Well, I think there's also things that we, I think it's far more than that. I think things are changing. I think there's been, you know, since the election in 2016, there's been sort of a mass exodus of church, but there's also been religious extremists that we've seen, which happens, you know, every time we have massive disruption to a culture the way we have.

Bennett Maxwell (39:39.517) How do you view that? I mean, kind of going back to the resentment question. What, you know, religious extremists or how you were raised, how your parents, which you got into, I know you don't, you know, they believed in that, but is there any, I guess, resentment for that?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (39:44.91) Good.

Well,

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (39:55.53) my gosh, tremendous. In fact, that's one of the things that I don't think gets talked about enough around deconstruction or leaving a religion is the sheer volume of grief. And there's a grief to your identity, right? Like when you realize, holy shit, I've spent all this time learning a different language, going to another country, giving my life in servitude and full self -sacrifice of something that I thought was really true.

to have that identity ripped out from under you and to not be able to unsee it, there are times when I'm like, God, I wish I was still drinking the Kool -Aid, so to speak.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (40:37.966) because having your eyes open to it.

Bennett Maxwell (40:38.621) It is. If you're perfect and you're in the one and only true religion, that's some peace and comfort. But overall, I think it is a lot more stress and you have to be good. And if you make a mistake or you sin, it's because not only are you a bad person, but you have a bad soul. And I'm just like,

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (40:49.102) Sure.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (40:57.518) Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because one of the core beliefs that, so almost always with the women that I work with, we go through a phase where we are dismantling beliefs. If somebody has extreme religion upbringing or even just a pretty present current of religion in their upbringing, almost always there is a deep seated belief of I am not good.

Like who I am is innately bad. I have to fight for my goodness. And it is a through line that I see constantly with people with religious upbringing. And I can't think of anything that's more detrimental to teach people that you are innately flawed and need saving. And yeah, so I cannot buy into that at all. But.

Bennett Maxwell (41:48.573) That kind of loops back around on the other question. And I put just a little bit more thought into it. So what do people struggle with? Self -worth or people pleasing? But isn't people pleasing because they're seeking self -worth or anxiety because they're focused on the present and they don't trust themselves that when the present comes, they can take care of it. Or depression, that they're viewing theirself as a bad person because of prior mistakes. Anyways, as we keep...

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (42:17.55) Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (42:18.909) throwing these out and like, maybe it does all come down to some sort of self -worth issue. So if you have 120 hours in the week or however many I'm sure we have more than that awake, why are we spending zero hours on the biggest, potentially the biggest problem with society? And we're just doing everything else hoping that it's gonna fix the self -worth issue even though we're just ignoring it.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (42:35.598) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (42:41.422) Yeah, because we're not told that that's the secret. We're told that everything else, right, we're told like, you just need to get out there and date more. you just need to get to a different place in your business. you just need to have kids. you need to, it's fill in the thing that's going to fulfill you. And so the sooner we realize that, but you...

Bennett Maxwell (42:45.981) Yeah, nobody knows that that's the problem.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (43:04.622) the better, but usually it comes on the heels of some massive crisis, some massive breakdown. You go bankrupt, you lose a marriage, you lose a child, somebody dies, you know, something like that. Usually that's when we start hungering and excavating for something that's deeper. But something about people pleasing that I think we really, really need to understand is that we look at it through a very myopic lens most of the time. We think of it as, if somebody is a people pleaser, they maybe have more of a...

repressed or depressed posture. There may be mild mannered, really soft spoken, quiet wallflower. And I think that the definition is much more expansive than that. I think I will find frequently people who don't identify with that moniker, but I'll say, are you highly invested in the opinions of other people? And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, well, then fucking welcome to people pleasing. So I think one of the things that we have to recognize is that we might not identify with the moniker.

The other thing is that sometimes it really is a place of self -preservation. It is tethered to our fawn response. If you've talked about that at all in the show, fight, fight, freeze. Fawn, fawn is sort of a newer one that is being discussed in psychological communities. And it's this idea that in the face of an aggressor or a captor, let's say it's a mountain lion, to fawn in the face of that fear would be like, here kitty, kitty, go get some of that food. We're placating, we're acquiescing.

Well, there are plenty of situations, I think for many women out there, we know what that's like to be polite, be nice to a guy so that you don't get physically harmed. I identify as queer. If I'm out and waving my rainbow flag in a place where I could be physically harmed, that might be the time for me to get off the rainbow soapbox and just kinda fade into the background so I can live, right? So I can survive. I would argue though that a far more frequent behavior

is where we people please or put other people in front of ourselves to outsource self -worth. So I think one of the basic questions that we have to ask when we find ourselves in sort of that, gosh, I really want them to like me. I really want this to go well. I want them to see me in a specific way. We have to ask, is this something that's coming from self -preservation, like keeping myself alive?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (45:26.03) Or is this something that's motivated from outsourcing my self -worth? I need them to validate me in order to feel like a valuable human. I was interviewed by an incredible black woman once, and she was talking about like, gosh, do you think I people pleased? Because when I was having my baby in the hospital, I really was trying to be kind to all the nurses and stuff. And I said, no, because we know that we have the highest mortality rate.

for women having babies in the US of any developed nation. And it's exponentially worse for women of color, specifically black women. So for her to go into that situation and try to set it up for her own self -preservation, knock yourself out. She's not trying to get that appeasement so that she feels like a valuable human.

Bennett Maxwell (46:12.253) I like that separation a lot. And the first time you said it, I'm like, I'm always the latter because I don't feel like I'm physically like, maybe just as a male or maybe because I live in freaking happy valleys, what it's nicknamed here in Utah, you know. But I'm like, no, I do do that. Like I will, and I can recognize like, you know, butter somebody up a little bit because I want them to treat me better. But it wasn't, I wasn't seeking an external validation for my self -worth, although that is usually what I'm doing.

And I was like, I don't do that. But I like that you separated that, because that makes it a lot easier to not just be like, if I'm nice to people, am I people pleasing? So anyways, like that distinction.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (46:51.342) Right. And also, so every behavior can be motivated from something different. You might have a genuine interest in what somebody is doing and you want them to like you, right? Like it's not.

Bennett Maxwell (47:03.997) Never said but on this podcast, just so you know. You say and and not but and I love it. I think it's a way better word. I apologize for cutting you off, but I admire that that you're doing that.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (47:06.606) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (47:10.574) Yeah. No. It's funny because I, as a completion gift, I just sent all of my women a wooden ampersand that is like the symbol of and, like put it on your desk, put it somewhere to remind yourself like, I can be so grateful that I have a job and not like the job that I'm in. I can be so appreciative to my parents and recognize the damage that was caused through their teaching. So

I think, again, it's nuanced. We need to have so much more of an expanse around our definitions, how we look at things, and really the grace that we give to ourselves. I think as humans, we want to compartmentalize. We want to tidy things up with a nice label. That's perfectionism. That's people pleasing. This is always bad. This is always good. And it's like, no, I think everything has a place. Like perfectionism. Can that steal your joy? 100%. And...

If I am having brain surgery, I sure as fuck want that neurosurgeon to be a perfectionist, right? And so there's times where some of these blanket terms of like people pleasing is always bad. No, I don't think that it is, but I think it takes conscious choice. One of the other things that you can ask yourself that can be really helpful, because those alarm bells will sound of like, my gosh,

are we on track? Is this what we want to be doing? Is this dangerous? Are people going to say no to this? Or where we're getting all wrapped up in our fear? That will show up just any time something's new. So one of my great questions to ask to mitigate, or to figure out, is this something that's dangerous here? Could I actually get hurt for speaking up? And do I need to troubleshoot it? Is to just simply ask.

Am I in danger or is this just new? Because the alarm bells are coming no matter what. But we need to discern, is this a fear? This is why I got so pissed during the pandemic when people are like, faith over fear. And I'm like, that's like a gunman.

Bennett Maxwell (49:27.773) What did that mean by the way? What site is that? Faith Over Fear.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (49:30.157) It meant like, it was this whole like, just turn to Jesus instead of like a vaccination. You know what I mean? And I'm like, that's like saying to a gunman who has a gun to your head, like, I'm choosing faith. You're trying to ignore very real current and present dangers. That warrants fear, our fears doing what it's supposed to do by saying, hey bitch, pay attention. Do we wanna go down this road? Is it safe? This looks new, not so sure.

Bennett Maxwell (49:35.165) Okay, okay, okay.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (49:59.95) But it's gonna do that when it's actually dangerous. And it's going to do that when something's just new. The first time you start your company, the first time you are public speaking, the first time you run a retreat, it's going to go, hey, are you sure? I don't know. So that's where we have to stop and discern. Is this a self -preservation thing or is this a self -worth thing? Am I in danger or is this just new?

And that can give you a little more of an insight into how to tune your behavior.

Bennett Maxwell (50:31.133) Yeah, I mean, and again, it's actionable steps. I mean, I just learned this one, which I probably should have learned forever ago, because I've seen it, I've been seeing a therapist for years. A month or two ago, I started seeing a new therapist. And like right at the beginning, hey, like I don't wanna go to sleep unless I'm like dead tired, because otherwise my brain is just gonna go in circles. She's like, okay, break it down. This is what you do. You're gonna identify the thought. Is it toxic or is it productive? And here's the definition, toxic, you can't change anything.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (50:59.278) Mmm.

Bennett Maxwell (51:00.349) productive you can. So in that moment, it's most likely toxic because it's not like you're going to get out of bed at midnight and go do something. So recognize that, reframe it, that it's a thought. You know, I hear that I'm noticing that I'm having this thought about XYZ, which is toxic, and then ground yourself to bring your back present to stop that loop. And you're just like, I'm 31 years old. How come nobody else has taught me that? And like the two things that you just mentioned, like here's how to identify them. I'm like, I'm 31 years old and I feel like I'm...

trying to learn all this and it's still, we need help everybody. Go get a coach, go get a therapist, contact Amy, but like it's so funny that the biggest blaring issues that cause all the stress were just not even focusing on them and we're not getting help. So I appreciate you sharing those tactics. I do wanna ask a handful of times.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (51:36.206) again.

Bennett Maxwell (51:51.453) During the BNA, I'm trying to think of the terminology anyways. It was, is this, this happened and it's okay that it happened. I forgot something, but is it acceptable? I wanted to ask you what you meant by what is acceptable? Is that action acceptable and how you're defining that?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (51:59.886) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (52:08.11) So this is really, I think, the most applicable when you're looking at forgiveness for other people or forgiveness for yourself. So it's looking back at a behavior that someone else has done or that you have done that's unbefitting of you. And you are checking in, like, what was the reasoning behind that? It's understandable that I chose to, let's say, be a bully in high school.

based off of how I felt about myself and other factors that were a part of that. So it's understandable why I would have chosen that. And it's also unacceptable as a behavior. It's not something that I get to repeat. So an example was somebody who is not yourself, like thinking about a parent who is super abusive. You can go.

I see all of the ways they were treated when they grew up, the social implications, all of the things that informed who they are. It's understandable why they were abusive, but it's not acceptable. And that's typically where boundaries come in. It's a boundary with yourself or it's a boundary with other people.

Bennett Maxwell (53:20.925) That's where you're drawing the line, especially with the other people. Cause like with me, it happened. I'm going to do my best not to do it again. Somebody else, it happened. I don't know if they're going to do it again, but if they do, here's my line. I like that a lot. I want to bring up one more thing just cause I had written it down. I want to get your opinion on it because on the religion and I liked it. There's a guy named Sam Harris, neuroscientist, great app, my favorite meditation app called Waking Up. Anyways, he, it was a small clip.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (53:30.862) That's right. That's right.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (53:47.726) Mmm.

Bennett Maxwell (53:50.493) talking about people saying they're blessed. And he said, is that not the most narcissistic, like is that not the definition of narcissism? Saying I'm blessed because just in time, right before granny is gonna lose her house, some lender stepped in and was able to refinance it. Or this doctor and the kidney and the waiting list. But, so we're blessed because we're special and God loves us, presumably more than other people, right?

But at the same time you have whether today, you know, hundreds, if not tens of thousands of people dying daily of starvation, a lot of those kids, or in the Bible when, you know, you throw in 10 ,000 kids and drown them all. Either way it's like, well, they're not blessed, we're blessed. And I really like that. And I use lucky instead of blessed because I grew up with blessed. It's like, no, I'm lucky, they're unlucky. I'm unlucky in this moment, they're lucky. And it separates the, I guess the mortality of it.

And I also, anyways, maybe I'm telling you because he said it was narcissistic and it made me smile and I'm like, yeah, that was probably me the entire time I was saying that.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (54:59.918) Well, to your point about pretty much everything we do is self -serving, there's also a very healthy level of narcissism. That's another one of those things that the word narcissism gets thrown around diagnostically when very, very few people are actually diagnosed as a narcissist. And I also think that sometimes categories make us feel more empowered. If you know I have ADHD, now you can

actually go, that's what's going on. Here's a solution. Here's how I can work with that. And I also think that words have power. And there are certain words that will resonate or not resonate. It sounds to me like that particular word has a charge for him and has a charge for you. I don't have that as much. Like, I will say,

I feel so unbelievably blessed to be a part of someone's journey. So I'll throw the word around, but I also feel very strongly about taking back shit from Christians. Like Easter, that was the pagans, like Halloween.

Bennett Maxwell (56:05.277) Well, what does bless mean then? When you use it like that, like who's blessing you and why are they blessing you over someone else?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (56:12.718) I don't think of it at all as an external piece. Yeah, I think of it kind of, I guess, anonymously with Lucky, I would just say I feel like I'm in a phase of gratitude. That's what it feels like to me, where I'm relishing whatever it is that's transpiring. However, I really do feel strongly that whoever,

Bennett Maxwell (56:15.101) So it's just a terminology, okay. That's what I assume.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (56:39.054) whatever word has a charge for you around that, we have to pay attention to that. And that's okay. For years, I couldn't even say the word God, because the idea of that was so repulsive to me. And now I have a much more expansive view of what that could mean and what it does mean to a bunch of different people. But I think it's important to honor where you're at. I've had people who...

you know, when we're talking about this concept of worthiness, they don't like the term enoughness. Like that doesn't say it, but deserving or mattering, that really hits home. So I think it's important when I do forgiveness work with people, a lot of times the word forgiveness is hard for them to wrap their head around because it feels like either I'm giving myself a free pass or I'm giving that other person a free pass. So instead we'll change it to the phrase of I'm choosing to let this go.

or I choose not to suffer over this any longer. It's the same fucking thing, but worthiness doesn't feel, or forgiveness feels like, ugh, I can't be with that word. That's fine, right?

Bennett Maxwell (57:42.269) And are you relating that to you feel like blessed is the better word than lucky based on upbringing? Because I'm still looking at blessed like the actual definition, somebody has to do the blessing. And that's where I'm like, well, who's blessing you and why aren't they blessing people in Africa with the same thing? I heard a teacher talk about, I mean, this is like seventh grade. He didn't teach his kids Santa Claus, because he's like, well, Santa Claus is sexist and racist and.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (57:49.742) Amy Green Smith [she/her] (57:54.59) that's interesting.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (58:00.654) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (58:12.43) Mm -hmm.

Bennett Maxwell (58:12.445) He only gives presents to some people. I'm not gonna teach my kids that, which I'm like, anyways, just a different, none of it really in the grounds can things makes a difference, but I find it interesting. I'm like, I'm gonna stop. Like I find it very interesting that you stopped using but and used and I'm like, I wanna do that too.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (58:16.238) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (58:29.134) Yeah, yeah, I use that constantly. But again, I think it has to do with the semantics that you resonate with. For blessed, if I'm thinking about it coming from somewhere, it's coming from that person sharing their experience with me. Like I feel so grateful and fortunate that they chose me as a practitioner. So if the blessing's coming from anywhere, it's coming from that person. But I also don't feel like I need that to be valuable either.

Bennett Maxwell (58:59.229) Let me give you a little more background on why I was asking that. I went to Africa in the last year for a humanitarian project and every day we were eating with local people and we were drilling water wells. So it's not like in the cities of Africa, right? You're in the villages. And every single time, you know, we're going to share something and everybody from America sits there and talks about how blessed they are because we have things in front of these Kenyans that I'm like, is that not, maybe they're not picking up on that, but like for me, I'm like,

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (59:01.646) Okay.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (59:23.15) Hmm.

Bennett Maxwell (59:29.309) By you saying you're blessed because you have more than them, does that mean they're not blessed? And what did they do to not be blessed? And what did you do to be blessed? And why are we using that terminology? That's more of the background, but who knows?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (59:36.622) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (59:42.222) Yeah, I can absolutely understand that. And that is probably not a term that I would throw around in that type of a circle. But I also think that, I don't know if you've ever caught Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about his thoughts on God. And he says like, OK, he's got to be either all powerful or all good. He can't be both of those things. Because if he's all powerful,

then of course he would be handling starvation and he would be helping all of these people in need. And so you've got to pick one because clearly he's not, so if he's all good, then this also would not be happening, right? So there's ways again where science just refutes the insanity of that belief.

Bennett Maxwell (01:00:28.829) Which one is it? If you, the God that you believe in, all good or all powerful?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:00:30.958) Mmm.

I'll see if I can find the clip. I don't. I don't believe in a deity. I don't believe in one.

Bennett Maxwell (01:00:41.725) I thought you, before you said that you, no, you said you believed in a soul. And I'm relating that to a God. But anyways, okay.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:00:44.462) I do. Yeah, no, not at all. In fact, I've had a lot of people say, like, how can you be an atheist and believe in a soul? And I'm like, because that feels like science to me. That's not, and also nothing punitive happens to me if I, whatever I choose to do with that soul, if I don't ascribe it to this dogma. So.

Yeah, I consider myself an agnostic atheist in the sense that Gnosticism has to do with knowing, right? And I'm very clear that I do not know what's out there. But atheism is about believing or not believing. And that has to do specifically with Abrahamic faiths. Anything that is rooted in a biblical text or an antiquated text that says this is how we have to live our life.

I cannot subscribe to any sort of deity like that with worship and things like that. So, but if, you know, I heard somebody on TikTok talking about like, well, if you view God as a universal energy, yeah, I guess I'm a theist all day. But if you're talking about the God of the Bible, the Quran, you know, in Judaism, whatever, then no, atheist all day. So it just, again, depends on the semantics, depends how people define things. Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (01:02:02.94) Have you heard of Jordan Peterson? Okay, so it was Jordan Peterson and actually that same guy I mentioned before, Sam Harris. And Sam Harris is an atheist and he said, what is the God that you believe in? And they're talking back and forth. And he's like, you know, and he basically, like he described a universal energy and he's like, okay, I can accept that. I'll believe, you know, I'm no longer an atheist if that's how you define it as, but tell me.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:02:08.046) Yes.

Bennett Maxwell (01:02:32.669) Why, where does that God, why does he hate gay people? Like the God that you described, why does he hate gay people? Which I thought was so funny. But yeah, I do think there's a lot of word games and going back and forth. And I guess at the end of the day, it's fun, it's exciting jumping into consciousness and all of that. But just what you just said, nobody, none of us know what the fuck we're doing. We're just guessing and then guessing again and then guessing again.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:02:36.878) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:02:51.79) Yeah.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:03:00.238) Yeah, and I also just don't fucking care how he feels about gay people. You know what I mean? I'm like, if I don't subscribe to, that's like asking, that's like saying, why doesn't the Easter bunny like chicken more? It's like, I don't fucking care if he likes eggs or what, I don't care because I don't believe in that as a way to govern my life. And I also think it's so curious when you actually look at

where we got all of this notion about man shall not live or lay with another man, that originally was a child in the original script. And it was very deliberately changed to create a homophobic agenda. So there's a lot of shit like that that I'm like, you don't, it's not even what you think it is. I just saw a whole breakdown on the 10 commandments and what those really are indicative of. And so, but again, I don't care.

Bennett Maxwell (01:03:52.797) Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (01:03:56.669) I mean, you could murder people in the Bible. You can murder people and it's like, well, we're not doing that anymore. There are slaves in the Bible. we're not doing that anymore. But gay people in the Bible, no, we're still doing that. Like that's our line. And you're just like, whatever. You mentioned the sexuality and the three prongs there. And my brother, two years older than me, same thing, he was the way, he's always going to church, came out as gay. I overhear my mom. I'm like laughing.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:04:09.55) No.

Bennett Maxwell (01:04:25.853) I view my mom as a lack of conscious free will as I view everybody. I'm like, it just is what it is. But she told him that she hoped he would get AIDS and that he wasn't around the grandchild children anymore because if we couldn't trust him to not be straight, we couldn't trust him to not be a pedophile. And I'm just like, okay, if there's like an evil thing to say, I think that that's it. And then I'm like, no, it's not like.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:04:48.782) Wow.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:04:53.87) Yes.

Bennett Maxwell (01:04:54.877) there's something that's in her, she actually believes that. And I feel bad that that's going through her mind, that she felt that her only option at that time, or her best option was to express that. And I'm just like, again, back to the absence of free will, now I can look at her and be like, okay, you said it, but really I probably would, I mean, not probably, I would have said the same thing if I was her.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:05:07.054) Yeah, yeah, unacceptable.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:05:17.742) Well, and that's another great example. Like if I was coaching your brother, I'd be like, absolutely not. Will we tolerate any of that? The minute she says anything like that, you're allowed to feel how you feel, but I am not going to subject myself to this diatribe. Like I wouldn't. Good for him. Yeah. Good.

Bennett Maxwell (01:05:30.781) Yeah. He's been married happily for 10 years. And he's in New York and, you know, limited. Anyways, they're actually having a baby. I think they're like, they found a surrogate and they've been doing that for years, but that's pretty exciting for him.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:05:41.678) good for them.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:05:47.438) But it's a great example too of it's understandable based off of what she has been fed, that that's how she would think that that's a way to win a soul for Christ. And it's un fucking acceptable. It's unacceptable. So yeah, I mean, I could rip her mom a new one there.

Bennett Maxwell (01:05:58.653) Yeah, that's like she had a good intention somehow. Yep, exactly.

Bennett Maxwell (01:06:06.461) Amy, this has been great. Amy, I know I told you at the beginning, I'm like, we usually go for 30 minutes, but we're going to go over. I'm not going to worry about it because there's just a lot. And I know I feel like there's a thousand, at least another six questions that I have written down that I didn't get to ask you. So we'll have to connect afterwards on this, but Amy, we'll throw all your show notes, links, all of that on how to connect with you. And what's the name of the coaching business?

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:06:15.598) I'm sober both. I'm sober both too.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:06:36.814) So I run it all under my name, so you can find me over at amygreensmith .com. And all those names are spelled total basic bitch way, nothing exciting. Just Amy Greensmith. And then like any self -respecting Gen Xer, I hang out the most on Instagram. So you can find me under the handle, hey, Amy Greensmith, pretty much on all of social.

Bennett Maxwell (01:06:57.437) Hey, perfect, we'll throw those in there. Amy, thank you so much for sharing everything, your wisdom and everything. And how to not say but. Anyways, Amy, thank you.

Amy Green Smith [she/her] (01:07:04.43) Nice. Thanks, Bennett.