1 00:00:01,096 --> 00:00:05,037 Open the door to more with a National Trust membership. As 2 00:00:05,057 --> 00:00:08,898 well as free entry and parking at over 500 places we care for, 3 00:00:09,258 --> 00:00:12,679 you'll receive access to our online members area full of 4 00:00:12,699 --> 00:00:17,100 exclusive member-only content, a yearly handbook packed with 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,541 visit inspiration, and our award-winning member magazine 6 00:00:20,721 --> 00:00:23,902 three times a year. To find out more, visit 7 00:00:23,982 --> 00:00:29,744 nationaltrust.org.uk/become-a-m- ember. 8 00:00:39,256 --> 00:00:42,498 Hello and welcome to this episode of the National Trust 9 00:00:42,538 --> 00:00:45,840 Podcast. I'm James Grasby, curator of buildings and 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,882 historic landscapes for the Trust. Join me as we compare two 11 00:00:49,962 --> 00:00:53,565 remarkable estates that are at risk. The picturesque Blickling 12 00:00:53,605 --> 00:00:56,886 Estate in Norfolk, England, and the enchanting former palace 13 00:00:56,967 --> 00:00:59,868 Bayt al-Razzaz in the heart of Cairo, Egypt. 14 00:01:00,529 --> 00:01:03,250 We will meet the inspiring people who are responsible for 15 00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:06,072 protecting these cultural treasures from destruction 16 00:01:06,496 --> 00:01:09,417 through extreme weather events and political and social 17 00:01:09,517 --> 00:01:14,778 upheaval. Prepare to fly 4,000 miles from the UK to one of the 18 00:01:14,778 --> 00:01:18,019 historical centres of the Arab-Speaking world in Cairo. 19 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,301 Telling the story is producer Jesse Edbrooke. 20 00:01:25,701 --> 00:01:28,342 The flight time is about four and a half hours from London 21 00:01:28,402 --> 00:01:32,323 Heathrow. Emerging from the arrivals hall onto the streets 22 00:01:32,323 --> 00:01:36,228 of Cairo, the sights, sounds and energy of the place are 23 00:01:36,248 --> 00:01:40,370 immediately apparent. Traffic weaves frantically in and out as 24 00:01:40,390 --> 00:01:43,492 we take the highway from the airport to the historic quarter 25 00:01:43,512 --> 00:01:44,253 in the old town. 26 00:01:45,013 --> 00:01:48,735 The destination is a former medieval palace and family home 27 00:01:48,975 --> 00:01:53,118 called Bayt al-Razzaz. Since the 1960s, the property has been 28 00:01:53,218 --> 00:01:56,600 owned by Egypt's Ministry Of Antiquities, and now it's looked 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,222 after by the Egyptian Heritage Rescue Foundation. Architect and 30 00:02:01,262 --> 00:02:05,073 historian Omniya Abdul Barr is its manager and the visionary to 31 00:02:05,113 --> 00:02:07,735 restoring the property that had fallen into disrepair. 32 00:02:08,435 --> 00:02:11,277 She's invited Heather Jermy, the general manager of National 33 00:02:11,297 --> 00:02:14,940 Trust's Blickling Estate, to join her. The properties have 34 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:17,522 been twinned by the International National Trust's 35 00:02:17,582 --> 00:02:21,325 organisation, or INTO, to share knowledge and insight in the 36 00:02:21,445 --> 00:02:24,768 fight against climate change on a program called Withstanding 37 00:02:24,828 --> 00:02:26,849 Change, funded by the British Council. 38 00:02:28,290 --> 00:02:30,332 We join Heather and Omniya in Cairo. 39 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,721 So welcome to Bayt al-Razzaz. I'm Omniya Abdul Barr. I'm happy 40 00:02:34,781 --> 00:02:36,521 to welcome Heather. 41 00:02:36,561 --> 00:02:37,902 It's good to be here. Hi. 42 00:02:38,402 --> 00:02:43,303 So we are standing in the street of Babul Ozir and you see in 43 00:02:43,343 --> 00:02:46,604 front of you this line of minarets, the minaret of the 44 00:02:46,624 --> 00:02:49,965 Blue Mosque. The minaret of Umm Al-Sultan Shaa’ba, which is the 45 00:02:49,985 --> 00:02:51,926 mosque next to Bayt al-Razzaz. 46 00:02:52,366 --> 00:02:55,767 Minarets are towers with distinctive designs. Everything 47 00:02:55,807 --> 00:03:00,188 from squat steeples to soaring pencil-thin spires that project 48 00:03:00,188 --> 00:03:00,888 the call to prayer. 49 00:03:02,144 --> 00:03:04,625 Cairo is called the city of a thousand minarets. 50 00:03:06,445 --> 00:03:07,205 It's so beautiful. 51 00:03:07,305 --> 00:03:10,966 It is amazing, isn't it? It's quite busy out here. 52 00:03:10,987 --> 00:03:11,727 It's always busy. 53 00:03:12,427 --> 00:03:15,388 And there's little cafes, little workshops. 54 00:03:15,588 --> 00:03:16,868 Cairo has always been busy. 55 00:03:18,789 --> 00:03:18,949 Yeah. 56 00:03:18,949 --> 00:03:22,060 Omniya trained as an architect and historian specializing in 57 00:03:22,060 --> 00:03:25,270 the Mamluk period of Egyptian history. Bayt al-Razzaz was 58 00:03:25,371 --> 00:03:28,871 originally constructed by the Sultan Qaytbay in the mid-15th 59 00:03:28,912 --> 00:03:29,292 century. 60 00:03:29,292 --> 00:03:32,389 Take me now into our entrance alley. 61 00:03:34,070 --> 00:03:36,812 So yeah, this is a pretty big wooden door that we're about to 62 00:03:36,812 --> 00:03:37,413 go through. 63 00:03:38,954 --> 00:03:42,136 And it feels a little bit like leaving the busy street behind, 64 00:03:42,156 --> 00:03:42,717 doesn't it? 65 00:03:43,017 --> 00:03:43,477 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 66 00:03:43,617 --> 00:03:46,299 We're now going down into this corridor and it just feels a bit 67 00:03:46,379 --> 00:03:47,900 darker and almost a little bit quieter. 68 00:03:51,143 --> 00:03:56,006 Wow, look at this. Oh, it's absolutely beautiful. This big, 69 00:03:56,146 --> 00:03:59,884 huge open courtyard space. There 's so much going on, I don't 70 00:03:59,904 --> 00:04:01,145 quite know where to look first. 71 00:04:01,745 --> 00:04:05,726 In Cairene design, the courtyard serves many purposes. For 72 00:04:05,786 --> 00:04:09,007 instance, it's a cooler space used for gathering and working, 73 00:04:09,367 --> 00:04:11,988 with a through breeze to other spaces in the house for cooling. 74 00:04:12,808 --> 00:04:15,069 Omniya explained that in many ways it was the heart of the 75 00:04:15,089 --> 00:04:18,530 House. It also bears the core principle of Islamic design, 76 00:04:18,770 --> 00:04:21,671 that the facade is not glamorous. But the inside is 77 00:04:21,671 --> 00:04:23,832 where the beauty and uniqueness is to be found. 78 00:04:25,976 --> 00:04:29,937 The way to enter places is never direct. You never enter and then 79 00:04:30,277 --> 00:04:32,658 the final place. You have to go through small little alleys. 80 00:04:33,058 --> 00:04:36,139 Even Sultan Hassan, which is the biggest mosque from this period, 81 00:04:36,179 --> 00:04:39,000 you enter, then you go left, then you go right, then you go 82 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,881 left, and then you find the courtyard. And it's as if it's 83 00:04:41,921 --> 00:04:43,561 preparing you to what you're about to see. 84 00:04:44,321 --> 00:04:47,622 So one of the things that is really striking about this 85 00:04:47,722 --> 00:04:52,004 courtyard firstly, it's so quiet compared to the really noisy 86 00:04:52,084 --> 00:04:55,390 street outside. But also everywhere I look, I see these 87 00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:58,774 layers of history that have built up over time. Whether it's 88 00:04:59,095 --> 00:05:02,921 an archway that looks like it's been blocked or there's an 89 00:05:02,921 --> 00:05:06,942 inscription here, paintings there. It's just these beautiful 90 00:05:07,023 --> 00:05:07,843 layers of history. 91 00:05:08,143 --> 00:05:10,764 We're trying to keep as many layers as we can. So you have 92 00:05:10,764 --> 00:05:13,444 the window from the inside and then a window from the outside. 93 00:05:13,804 --> 00:05:15,745 It's part of the history of the place. 94 00:05:16,125 --> 00:05:16,585 Definitely. 95 00:05:17,225 --> 00:05:19,826 But climate change is now threatening Cairo's historic 96 00:05:19,866 --> 00:05:22,927 buildings such as Bayt al-Razzaz. Instead of hotter 97 00:05:22,967 --> 00:05:25,888 weather damaging the structures, heavier bouts of rain have 98 00:05:25,888 --> 00:05:29,229 caused problems in a city where flat roofs and no drainage are 99 00:05:29,229 --> 00:05:29,569 the norm. 100 00:05:30,629 --> 00:05:33,671 The corner House is an important three-story section of Bayt 101 00:05:33,691 --> 00:05:36,533 al-Razzaz that was damaged when the houses adjoining it 102 00:05:36,633 --> 00:05:41,276 collapsed in an unseasonably heavy thunderstorm in 2020. The 103 00:05:41,296 --> 00:05:44,738 Corner House was dismantled and is being rebuilt brick by brick, 104 00:05:45,218 --> 00:05:47,019 as can be heard by the background sounds. 105 00:05:47,359 --> 00:05:52,663 So this used to be, we call it the Corner House, which connects 106 00:05:52,923 --> 00:05:56,625 with the houses which are overlooking the street. The 107 00:05:56,645 --> 00:05:59,166 House next to us collapsed because of the amount of rain 108 00:05:59,226 --> 00:06:02,467 that we are experiencing. And because people are not used to 109 00:06:02,467 --> 00:06:06,748 do- maintenance, like checking their gutters and checking their 110 00:06:06,808 --> 00:06:08,629 roofs and even insulating their roofs. 111 00:06:08,809 --> 00:06:11,409 The core philosophies of architecture and design in the 112 00:06:11,489 --> 00:06:14,270 UK and Egypt are being stretched. And now they are 113 00:06:14,290 --> 00:06:15,091 learning from each other. 114 00:06:15,591 --> 00:06:19,472 In Egypt, we always think, how are we getting rid of the heat? 115 00:06:20,092 --> 00:06:22,913 And in Europe, we're always thinking, how are we keeping the 116 00:06:22,913 --> 00:06:26,442 heat? So it took me a while to understand the wall system. 117 00:06:28,042 --> 00:06:31,043 In Egypt in the medieval times, we built thick walls because we 118 00:06:31,063 --> 00:06:34,384 wanted to create cool areas in the inside, while in here we 119 00:06:34,444 --> 00:06:36,885 wanted to isolate them from the cold outside. 120 00:06:38,086 --> 00:06:41,387 The important work of restoring Bayt al-Razzaz is organized by 121 00:06:41,387 --> 00:06:44,868 the Egyptian Heritage Rescue Foundation. It was started by 122 00:06:44,928 --> 00:06:48,249 volunteers to protect cultural heritage from looting and 123 00:06:48,289 --> 00:06:51,807 destruction. This became a major issue when the Arab Spring 124 00:06:51,887 --> 00:06:55,890 started in 2011. And people rose up to overthrow the government. 125 00:06:58,772 --> 00:07:01,374 In the chaos and political upheaval that followed, 126 00:07:01,894 --> 00:07:05,617 different factions protested and fought. Omniya shares the 127 00:07:05,617 --> 00:07:08,879 details of the truly dramatic day that was the catalyst to 128 00:07:08,919 --> 00:07:12,182 meeting the EHRF team and changing the course of her life. 129 00:07:12,362 --> 00:07:19,352 On the 24th of January 2014, a car bomb took place in front of 130 00:07:19,352 --> 00:07:23,564 the Museum Of Islamic Art. The target was the security building 131 00:07:23,584 --> 00:07:24,064 of Cairo. 132 00:07:24,544 --> 00:07:26,025 It was a huge bomb attack. 133 00:07:27,025 --> 00:07:29,646 It was six in the morning. The sound woke me up. 134 00:07:30,227 --> 00:07:31,227 And on this side of the road. 135 00:07:31,227 --> 00:07:34,528 You can see the historic facade, the Islamic Museum Of Art, 136 00:07:35,109 --> 00:07:36,689 severely damaged by the blast. 137 00:07:38,210 --> 00:07:41,892 I opened the windows and I saw smoke coming out of downtown. 138 00:07:42,152 --> 00:07:44,633 And I looked at Twitter and they said the security building was 139 00:07:44,693 --> 00:07:47,534 hit. And then I looked at my husband and I said, the museum 140 00:07:47,554 --> 00:07:49,955 is in front of the security building. I have to go. 141 00:07:50,995 --> 00:07:53,696 The attack took place outside one of the most important 142 00:07:53,736 --> 00:07:55,697 museums for Islamic art in the world. 143 00:07:55,697 --> 00:08:00,019 Well you can a huge crater that was left after the bomb blast. 144 00:08:00,019 --> 00:08:02,780 It blew through the concrete and twisted metal can be seen 145 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:03,741 everywhere. 146 00:08:03,741 --> 00:08:06,882 What happened with the explosion is that we lost all the windows. 147 00:08:07,462 --> 00:08:10,764 The doors and windows of the museum were destroyed. Thousands 148 00:08:10,764 --> 00:08:13,645 of protesting Egyptians surrounded the museum. In the 149 00:08:13,685 --> 00:08:16,746 chaos, there was a danger that people would move in and steal 150 00:08:16,746 --> 00:08:18,766 the artifacts to sell on the black market. 151 00:08:18,986 --> 00:08:21,967 We weren't sure if the army will be able to secure the place. 152 00:08:23,508 --> 00:08:26,628 Since we arrived. Riot police have been attempting to control 153 00:08:26,648 --> 00:08:27,209 the crowd. 154 00:08:27,689 --> 00:08:31,830 Despite the extremely dangerous situation, the team of EHRF 155 00:08:31,930 --> 00:08:34,951 gathered at the museum to try to save the priceless artefacts. 156 00:08:35,611 --> 00:08:38,432 These brave volunteers realised that they were the last line of 157 00:08:38,452 --> 00:08:42,493 defence and had to move the artefacts to a secure location 158 00:08:42,633 --> 00:08:46,621 inside the museum. Omniya, who is not yet part of the team, had 159 00:08:46,681 --> 00:08:49,309 just arrived at the museum to see what she could do to help. 160 00:08:51,797 --> 00:08:54,318 And I remember the museum director looked at me and said, 161 00:08:54,318 --> 00:08:58,681 so who are you? I said, Omniya. "Omniya what?" Abdul Barr. I'm 162 00:08:58,701 --> 00:09:02,223 just a citizen, concerned about her head. And he was so sweet. 163 00:09:02,463 --> 00:09:04,164 He said, OK, get along and work. 164 00:09:04,284 --> 00:09:07,786 In the chaos inside the museum, Omniya had a chance encounter 165 00:09:07,806 --> 00:09:10,288 with the chairman of the EHRF, Abdelhamid. 166 00:09:10,368 --> 00:09:13,089 I saw Abdelhamid, who's our chairman. Then I looked at him 167 00:09:13,089 --> 00:09:15,571 and said, "OK, what do you need?" And he said, "I need 168 00:09:15,611 --> 00:09:19,513 boxes, I need bubble wrap, I need pencils and papers.". 169 00:09:20,085 --> 00:09:22,847 In such a high-pressure situation, where could Omniya 170 00:09:22,928 --> 00:09:25,570 find enough bubble wrap to secure a thousand priceless 171 00:09:25,630 --> 00:09:26,070 pieces? 172 00:09:26,691 --> 00:09:30,334 Next to the museum, there is an area called Bab Zuweila, which 173 00:09:30,334 --> 00:09:34,337 is actually medieval from the 14th century. We have a saying 174 00:09:34,357 --> 00:09:37,440 in Arabic, you find everything from the needle to the rocket. 175 00:09:38,581 --> 00:09:41,603 And over there you have lots of carpenters and people do lots of 176 00:09:41,643 --> 00:09:43,465 woodwork, so eventually they have bubble wrap. 177 00:09:43,725 --> 00:09:46,028 And the funny thing, I didn't have money, but I saw someone 178 00:09:46,068 --> 00:09:48,411 else who came from another institution and said, I have 179 00:09:48,471 --> 00:09:51,574 money. So we went together and I was holding the boxes like 180 00:09:51,674 --> 00:09:54,758 proper ancient Egyptian, everything on my hand and 181 00:09:54,798 --> 00:09:55,819 walking inside the museum. 182 00:09:56,339 --> 00:09:59,163 Back at the museum, the police had secured the building and the 183 00:09:59,183 --> 00:10:03,247 teams inside were smashing glass cases that held more than 1,000 184 00:10:03,307 --> 00:10:06,285 artifacts. It was then that another serious setback 185 00:10:06,325 --> 00:10:06,705 occurred. 186 00:10:06,925 --> 00:10:10,106 Because of the fire system, you had water coming down the 187 00:10:10,146 --> 00:10:13,276 ceilings, so we were underwater, and at the same time we have 188 00:10:13,276 --> 00:10:16,707 everything, you were walking on broken glass and broken windows. 189 00:10:16,847 --> 00:10:20,688 Despite the almost overwhelming odds against them, the EHRF team 190 00:10:20,768 --> 00:10:24,129 worked tirelessly. As the day wore on, artefacts that were at 191 00:10:24,189 --> 00:10:27,350 risk of water damage were moved first. Then gradually, the glass 192 00:10:27,410 --> 00:10:30,171 cases were smashed, and the rest of the items were then wrapped 193 00:10:30,291 --> 00:10:33,312 and moved to a secure location in the museum. Everything was 194 00:10:33,352 --> 00:10:36,593 documented before it was removed and numbered when it was stored. 195 00:10:38,073 --> 00:10:40,414 It was a very emotional experience for me because I was 196 00:10:40,454 --> 00:10:44,855 collecting objects I know so well, cracked, broken and in 197 00:10:44,915 --> 00:10:47,956 pieces. There is one specific piece that is now restored, 198 00:10:47,976 --> 00:10:49,456 thankfully, with his name on it. 199 00:10:49,677 --> 00:10:52,557 Qaytbay was the Sultan who originally built Bayt al-Razzaz 200 00:10:52,637 --> 00:10:54,278 and ruled Egypt for a few decades. 201 00:10:55,878 --> 00:10:59,259 I remember collecting it from the rubble and holding it in my 202 00:10:59,319 --> 00:11:03,653 hand after I secured it in a box. And now that it's restored, 203 00:11:03,773 --> 00:11:06,795 I always have to go and see it and as if I'm saluting it in a 204 00:11:06,795 --> 00:11:10,256 way, say, hello. It gives me hope because you see, after all 205 00:11:10,256 --> 00:11:13,318 the destruction we've seen, the museum is now open and it's 206 00:11:13,378 --> 00:11:14,939 fabulous and a wonderful place to be. 207 00:11:16,339 --> 00:11:20,561 Incredibly, the team succeeded in saving every artifact in the 208 00:11:20,561 --> 00:11:22,182 museum and the protesters didn't break into the building. 209 00:11:23,323 --> 00:11:25,764 It's a day I will never, never, ever forget. 210 00:11:27,308 --> 00:11:29,589 I'm grateful I had this experience because the 211 00:11:29,609 --> 00:11:32,930 day-to-day is not easy, but when you remember that you lived a 212 00:11:32,950 --> 00:11:36,871 catastrophe and now it has changed completely, it gives you 213 00:11:36,891 --> 00:11:39,071 hope. It will not always be that negative. 214 00:11:40,572 --> 00:11:44,193 I asked the head of the Egyptian Rescue Heritage Foundation why 215 00:11:44,233 --> 00:11:49,034 he risked his life to save the artefacts, and he responded, if 216 00:11:49,094 --> 00:11:52,375 we can protect our history and through it understand our past, 217 00:11:52,815 --> 00:11:54,916 then nobody can manipulate our future. 218 00:11:56,176 --> 00:11:59,078 The experience of working with other Egyptians who risked so 219 00:11:59,238 --> 00:12:02,340 much to protect their history propelled Omniya to a 220 00:12:02,420 --> 00:12:03,461 life-changing decision. 221 00:12:03,941 --> 00:12:08,404 That day, and after working with all the team of EHRF, I felt how 222 00:12:08,484 --> 00:12:12,587 genuine they are, how loving for Egypt, you know. And immediately 223 00:12:12,747 --> 00:12:16,049 I told Abdelhamid, OK, what do you need? He said, "we need 224 00:12:16,089 --> 00:12:18,811 money and we need to do more training." So I started by 225 00:12:18,851 --> 00:12:20,152 fundraising for the foundation. 226 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:30,302 After successfully fundraising for EHRF, Omniya decided to 227 00:12:30,362 --> 00:12:32,803 dedicate her time to restoring the property we had been 228 00:12:32,843 --> 00:12:36,344 exploring earlier in the episode, Bayt al-Razzaz. We 229 00:12:36,404 --> 00:12:39,326 rejoin Heather and Omniya in the courtyard at a celebration of 230 00:12:39,326 --> 00:12:42,647 the work completed on the property so far. They have also 231 00:12:42,727 --> 00:12:45,248 been sharing their findings on climate change adaption for 232 00:12:45,288 --> 00:12:47,989 heritage properties with dignitaries from around the 233 00:12:47,989 --> 00:12:48,269 world. 234 00:12:48,450 --> 00:12:51,511 I'm Gareth Bailey, British Ambassador to Egypt. When I was 235 00:12:51,551 --> 00:12:54,928 here last in the 90s, the whole place was a ruin. What we've got 236 00:12:54,968 --> 00:12:58,639 today is nothing other than an oasis, because all around us is 237 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:01,510 a teeming city of 25 million people. And then right in the 238 00:13:01,510 --> 00:13:06,551 heart of it, there's just a perfectly calm, beautifully 239 00:13:06,591 --> 00:13:09,692 restored courtyard with a charming garden. And it's just a 240 00:13:09,712 --> 00:13:11,353 place I think people will see as a refuge. 241 00:13:11,613 --> 00:13:15,914 I'm called John De Konig, and I work as part of the evaluation 242 00:13:16,034 --> 00:13:19,315 and support team for this project on withstanding climate 243 00:13:19,315 --> 00:13:23,420 change. If you'd been here yesterday, you would have seen a 244 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,921 large group of small children moving around the place and 245 00:13:28,301 --> 00:13:33,283 learning how to plant drought-resistant varieties and 246 00:13:33,643 --> 00:13:34,343 things like that. 247 00:13:34,423 --> 00:13:38,384 It was very nice. On this site, they would find a piece of their 248 00:13:38,424 --> 00:13:43,186 history and a piece of their identity. And what more can you 249 00:13:43,226 --> 00:13:43,706 expect? 250 00:13:44,626 --> 00:13:47,707 The time arrived for Heather to leave, but not before giving an 251 00:13:47,787 --> 00:13:51,358 invitation for Omniya to visit Norfolk for the next chapter of 252 00:13:51,358 --> 00:13:54,717 the exchange. On the way to the airport, Heather shared her 253 00:13:54,777 --> 00:13:56,558 observations and takeaways from the trip. 254 00:13:56,918 --> 00:14:02,581 I'm currently on the bus, having left the hotel and making my way 255 00:14:02,581 --> 00:14:05,763 to the airport at the end of my trip to Cairo. I feel really 256 00:14:05,823 --> 00:14:10,186 overwhelmed by the experiences that I've had. One of the things 257 00:14:10,186 --> 00:14:13,027 that I've really taken away from especially having those 258 00:14:13,027 --> 00:14:16,769 conversations at Bayt al-Razzaz is the work that they do with 259 00:14:16,869 --> 00:14:21,292 community and with local people, with young people, talking to 260 00:14:21,292 --> 00:14:22,032 them about the site. 261 00:14:22,172 --> 00:14:25,213 And mixing into that an understanding of the impact that 262 00:14:25,233 --> 00:14:28,074 climate change is having. It's something that we want to do 263 00:14:28,235 --> 00:14:30,696 more of at Blickling. It's something that we're starting to 264 00:14:30,696 --> 00:14:34,357 do. But actually, I think they're just miles ahead of us 265 00:14:34,397 --> 00:14:37,658 in terms of really understanding how to bring those messages to 266 00:14:37,658 --> 00:14:38,999 the people around them. 267 00:14:40,780 --> 00:14:43,321 Over the following months, both Heather and Omniya were busy 268 00:14:43,401 --> 00:14:46,582 restoring and managing their respective properties. Before 269 00:14:46,642 --> 00:14:49,683 long, it was time for Omniya's return visit to Norfolk, England 270 00:14:49,723 --> 00:14:53,013 and the picturesque Blickling Hall. It's a magnificent 271 00:14:53,073 --> 00:14:55,134 Jacobean Mansion with a rich heritage. 272 00:14:55,635 --> 00:14:58,537 Similar to Bayt al-Razzaz, it was constructed centuries ago 273 00:14:58,937 --> 00:15:02,099 and needs constant maintenance to fight climate change. It 274 00:15:02,119 --> 00:15:04,261 possesses one of the most important libraries in England 275 00:15:04,321 --> 00:15:08,544 with over 12,000 books. Omniya was hoping to gain more insight 276 00:15:08,604 --> 00:15:11,706 into how Heather and her team were adapting to the challenges 277 00:15:11,726 --> 00:15:12,587 of climate change. 278 00:15:16,347 --> 00:15:18,008 Hi Omnyia, it's really great to see you again. 279 00:15:18,548 --> 00:15:21,229 Thanks Heather, and I see the rain is not leaving us. 280 00:15:21,469 --> 00:15:25,251 No, so here we are at Blickling and one of the things we'll be 281 00:15:25,271 --> 00:15:28,533 talking about today is rain and the effect it has on our 282 00:15:28,593 --> 00:15:32,194 buildings and on our gardens and actually the rain is quite 283 00:15:32,214 --> 00:15:33,415 heavily falling at the moment. 284 00:15:33,615 --> 00:15:34,435 Yeah, it's a good start. 285 00:15:34,615 --> 00:15:39,198 Yeah, so we'll get our brollies up and we will go up for a walk 286 00:15:39,198 --> 00:15:41,098 up the front drive and show you the house. 287 00:15:41,318 --> 00:15:42,159 Yalla, let's go. 288 00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:48,161 Alrighty. 289 00:15:48,221 --> 00:15:51,664 And now you'll have to walk over one of our many makeshift 290 00:15:51,724 --> 00:15:53,966 streams that occur when it's raining. 291 00:15:55,267 --> 00:16:00,271 On the left is the wall to our orchard and walled garden. That 292 00:16:00,451 --> 00:16:04,294 has been a kitchen garden for the Hall since the 1600s. 293 00:16:04,434 --> 00:16:05,435 Oh, that's impressive. 294 00:16:05,515 --> 00:16:05,775 Yeah. 295 00:16:05,996 --> 00:16:08,338 And do we know what sort of things they were planting? And 296 00:16:09,198 --> 00:16:09,939 did it change? 297 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:14,122 One of the great stories is that when we had glass houses along 298 00:16:14,182 --> 00:16:18,113 one of the walls, there used to be a competition between us and 299 00:16:18,153 --> 00:16:21,535 another country estate in the area who could grow the best 300 00:16:21,575 --> 00:16:22,236 pineapples. 301 00:16:23,036 --> 00:16:25,378 You wouldn't think pineapples growing in such weather. 302 00:16:25,738 --> 00:16:29,281 No. Although, speaking of climate change, you never know, 303 00:16:29,281 --> 00:16:31,222 we might be able to grow a pineapple soon. 304 00:16:33,844 --> 00:16:38,047 The Blickling Estate is over 4,600 acres and Blickling Hall 305 00:16:38,067 --> 00:16:40,468 is among the many buildings looked after by the National 306 00:16:40,488 --> 00:16:44,231 Trust on the land. Originally constructed in the 17th century 307 00:16:44,631 --> 00:16:48,013 for Sir Henry Hobart, it came into the National Trust's hands 308 00:16:48,073 --> 00:16:52,977 in 1940 by Philip Kerr, Lord Lothian. It welcomes hundreds of 309 00:16:52,997 --> 00:16:54,438 thousands of visitors annually. 310 00:16:57,940 --> 00:17:01,503 I like to call this front drive bit the warm hug of Blickling. 311 00:17:01,863 --> 00:17:04,765 If you look at how the two wings come down the side and the 312 00:17:04,765 --> 00:17:07,627 mansion is there, it feels almost a little bit like the 313 00:17:07,667 --> 00:17:09,688 wings are coming around to give you a Blickling hug. 314 00:17:10,208 --> 00:17:12,650 As we're going to cross over the bridge, you'll see that there's 315 00:17:12,650 --> 00:17:17,450 two bulls here. These are the Henry Hobart bulls. So he was 316 00:17:17,490 --> 00:17:20,693 the first real owner of the estate of Blickling, but they're 317 00:17:20,733 --> 00:17:25,157 kind of also based on the Boleyn bulls. So you know Anne Boleyn? 318 00:17:25,457 --> 00:17:25,978 Yes. 319 00:17:25,978 --> 00:17:27,739 Famous Anne Boleyn. She was born here. 320 00:17:28,340 --> 00:17:29,541 How interesting. Yeah. 321 00:17:29,881 --> 00:17:33,044 Actually, she wasn't born in this House. Anne Boleyn was born 322 00:17:33,505 --> 00:17:36,748 at Blickling, as far as we know. Yeah. But it was a different 323 00:17:36,768 --> 00:17:37,929 House at the time. 324 00:17:37,929 --> 00:17:40,767 The bull is a symbol that the Hobart family used, and 325 00:17:40,767 --> 00:17:43,629 historical records suggest it was from a desire to associate 326 00:17:43,629 --> 00:17:46,411 themselves with Anne Boleyn, whose family's symbol was a 327 00:17:46,431 --> 00:17:46,611 bull. 328 00:17:47,332 --> 00:17:49,653 Omniya, I'm really excited because I'm about to take you 329 00:17:49,773 --> 00:17:53,716 into Blickling Hall and we're about to go and knock, then we 330 00:17:53,756 --> 00:17:57,299 can show you around some of our fantastic spaces and talk about 331 00:17:57,859 --> 00:17:59,510 actually how climate change is affecting them. 332 00:17:59,510 --> 00:18:01,061 The rain has stopped. 333 00:18:01,301 --> 00:18:02,442 It's letting up a little bit. 334 00:18:02,542 --> 00:18:04,224 Yeah, we need to open our umbrellas. 335 00:18:05,184 --> 00:18:07,976 Omniya, why don't you knock on the knocker for us? 336 00:18:07,976 --> 00:18:08,246 I love that. 337 00:18:08,246 --> 00:18:09,047 Someone will let us in. 338 00:18:16,263 --> 00:18:20,986 Hello, we've just been greeted by our property curator, Megan 339 00:18:21,166 --> 00:18:21,567 Dennis. Hi, Megan. 340 00:18:21,567 --> 00:18:23,108 Hi nice to meet you. 341 00:18:23,108 --> 00:18:25,149 I'm Omniya. I'm from Cairo. 342 00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:28,371 Over the years, Blickling Hall has seen many owners and even 343 00:18:28,451 --> 00:18:30,453 housed soldiers during the Second World War. 344 00:18:31,273 --> 00:18:34,696 Okay, Omniya, here we are. We're in the Great Hall Of Blickling. 345 00:18:35,156 --> 00:18:37,057 I think it's pretty spectacular. What do you think? 346 00:18:37,698 --> 00:18:40,760 It's very impressive with the coloured glass in front of us. 347 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:44,322 Heather and Omniya note similarities between Blickling's 348 00:18:44,442 --> 00:18:47,644 ornate ceilings and window decorations and those at Bayt 349 00:18:47,664 --> 00:18:50,886 al-Razzaz. The murals in the main library of Blickling Hall 350 00:18:51,186 --> 00:18:53,427 are likely to have been influenced by Victorian 351 00:18:53,567 --> 00:18:56,589 Egyptomania, featuring Egyptian plants and animals. 352 00:18:57,129 --> 00:19:01,592 So actually the canvas panels applied onto the ceiling. 353 00:19:01,732 --> 00:19:04,673 Really? Because we have a canvas ceiling as well in Bayt 354 00:19:04,673 --> 00:19:07,095 al-Razzaz and it's very, very weird to find such a thing. I 355 00:19:07,115 --> 00:19:09,596 don't think it exists anywhere else in Cairo. 356 00:19:10,036 --> 00:19:12,338 We have a spare one kind of rolled up in the store as well. 357 00:19:12,338 --> 00:19:13,618 I'd love to see that! 358 00:19:15,291 --> 00:19:18,772 That canvas one at Bayt al-Razzaz is that beautiful, 359 00:19:18,772 --> 00:19:20,352 chevron, kind of zigzag pattern, isn't it? 360 00:19:20,352 --> 00:19:22,113 Yeah, like on a Sony ceiling! 361 00:19:22,173 --> 00:19:23,413 It is, yeah. 362 00:19:23,433 --> 00:19:26,294 Blickling Hall suffers from similar water-related issues to 363 00:19:26,334 --> 00:19:28,915 Bayt al-Razzaz, with the drainage systems in the roof 364 00:19:29,155 --> 00:19:32,496 unable to cope with the amount of rainfall. Damp leaks into the 365 00:19:32,536 --> 00:19:36,057 house cause water ingress. This creates a perfect environment 366 00:19:36,077 --> 00:19:37,157 for invasive bugs. 367 00:19:38,457 --> 00:19:42,678 We're trying to do a lot more work with engaging young people 368 00:19:42,898 --> 00:19:45,760 and families. It's kind of under the banner of'conservation 369 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,281 conversations' say that 10 times fast! 370 00:19:49,722 --> 00:19:53,985 But it was all about bugs because one of the things that 371 00:19:54,026 --> 00:19:57,168 we face, especially with water ingress and humidity levels, is 372 00:19:57,248 --> 00:20:02,131 lots of bugs. And so it was connecting particularly young 373 00:20:02,211 --> 00:20:05,234 people from the local schools and areas like that with the 374 00:20:05,414 --> 00:20:09,217 impact that bugs have on our buildings and collection. 375 00:20:10,377 --> 00:20:12,479 Here's Megan Dennis, the property curator. 376 00:20:14,086 --> 00:20:17,749 We've been monitoring pests within the house for decades and 377 00:20:18,209 --> 00:20:21,271 in the last couple of years we've really noticed enormous 378 00:20:21,351 --> 00:20:24,794 increases in the number of silverfish in this room, which 379 00:20:24,794 --> 00:20:28,617 is a real concern because of the hand-painted wallpaper. 380 00:20:30,518 --> 00:20:33,920 These little creatures, they vary between kind of 5mm to 381 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,143 about 10mm long. They look a little bit like wood lice. 382 00:20:37,163 --> 00:20:39,504 They're kind of silvery, hence the name, and they've got two 383 00:20:39,544 --> 00:20:42,702 little things that come out of their back end. You commonly see 384 00:20:42,702 --> 00:20:45,203 them in a kitchen or a bathroom because they like it where it's 385 00:20:45,224 --> 00:20:45,784 nice and damp. 386 00:20:46,284 --> 00:20:50,766 And so we now have silverfish infestation as a result of the 387 00:20:51,126 --> 00:20:54,768 water ingress above. They're coming in, they're loving all 388 00:20:54,768 --> 00:20:56,949 the damp wood, then they're coming down here and they're 389 00:20:56,969 --> 00:21:01,251 loving all the juicy wallpaper, which is a real issue. We can't 390 00:21:01,271 --> 00:21:04,312 stop them coming in. They've got the perfect habitat here. What 391 00:21:04,312 --> 00:21:07,403 we try and do is get rid of them as quickly as we can before they 392 00:21:07,403 --> 00:21:08,374 do too much damage. 393 00:21:09,182 --> 00:21:11,644 So how do you get rid of silverfish as quickly as 394 00:21:11,704 --> 00:21:12,105 possible? 395 00:21:12,765 --> 00:21:16,128 We use a desiccant powder, but we dry them out. Basically, they 396 00:21:16,148 --> 00:21:18,330 kind of get dried and then we just hoover them up. 397 00:21:21,192 --> 00:21:24,034 We're now outside of the hall. Omniya, I hope you had an 398 00:21:24,034 --> 00:21:26,156 amazing time looking around inside. 399 00:21:26,156 --> 00:21:26,837 It's fabulous! 400 00:21:26,837 --> 00:21:29,899 And we talked a little bit about all of the issues we have with 401 00:21:29,939 --> 00:21:33,362 water management here and really proud of a project that we've 402 00:21:33,362 --> 00:21:36,685 just completed, all to do with how we manage water. 403 00:21:37,065 --> 00:21:39,827 This is Katherine, who was head of this National Trust funded 404 00:21:39,887 --> 00:21:43,349 project as an example of climate adaption best practice in 405 00:21:43,389 --> 00:21:46,171 heritage buildings to explain more about what was going wrong 406 00:21:46,511 --> 00:21:48,332 and the danger posed to Blickling Hall. 407 00:21:48,392 --> 00:21:51,974 And historically, if we had prolonged heavy rainfall, it 408 00:21:51,974 --> 00:21:55,376 would be so wet here, the water would be nearly up to the window 409 00:21:55,476 --> 00:21:57,717 level in the basement and we would have the fire brigade here 410 00:21:57,737 --> 00:21:59,758 pumping out and it was a regular occurrence. 411 00:22:00,059 --> 00:22:02,320 So how did the team go about fixing this issue? 412 00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:07,243 Yes so it kicked off a couple of years ago with actually some 413 00:22:07,263 --> 00:22:10,364 repairs to the lake wall that we needed to do and we needed to 414 00:22:10,524 --> 00:22:13,466 drop the lake level and we couldn't do it because the 415 00:22:13,566 --> 00:22:14,587 sluice was broken. 416 00:22:14,787 --> 00:22:17,889 The sluice is a sliding gate in the dam wall that can be opened 417 00:22:17,889 --> 00:22:19,710 or closed to let out water from the lake. 418 00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:24,172 So that then sparked a larger piece of work to fix the broken 419 00:22:24,272 --> 00:22:27,734 sluice and in doing the sort of pre-work on that we realised 420 00:22:27,734 --> 00:22:30,716 that the lakeside culvert was completely blocked and that 421 00:22:30,816 --> 00:22:34,238 takes all of the surface water from the gardens and the 422 00:22:34,258 --> 00:22:34,698 mansion. 423 00:22:35,046 --> 00:22:37,507 After discovering that the main drainage tunnel for the water 424 00:22:37,507 --> 00:22:40,508 was blocked, emergency work went ahead to try and clear the 425 00:22:40,508 --> 00:22:43,189 blockage. The team used a remote-controlled drain 426 00:22:43,249 --> 00:22:47,151 inspection vehicle to check the 300 meter distance. The findings 427 00:22:47,171 --> 00:22:47,911 were surprising. 428 00:22:48,331 --> 00:22:52,373 It starts off a big brick culvert about 300 millimeter 429 00:22:52,373 --> 00:22:55,754 diameter. And then when they replaced the final section, they 430 00:22:55,754 --> 00:22:59,716 put a clay pipe in that was about half of the size. So when 431 00:22:59,716 --> 00:23:02,457 you get a lot of water charging down the culvert, it suddenly 432 00:23:02,537 --> 00:23:05,354 meets a point where it gets a lot smaller. And that's where 433 00:23:05,374 --> 00:23:08,035 all the sludge and the silt will then gather. And that was 434 00:23:08,095 --> 00:23:09,216 blocking up the pipe. 435 00:23:10,596 --> 00:23:12,797 A culvert is a tunnel-like structure that directs water 436 00:23:12,877 --> 00:23:16,729 away from a road, railway or building to prevent flooding. It 437 00:23:16,729 --> 00:23:19,620 can be in different forms such as a pipe, tunnel or ditch. 438 00:23:20,460 --> 00:23:24,062 So we cleared that. Which enabled us to get into the lake. 439 00:23:24,102 --> 00:23:27,043 We had to dam the lake so we've drained the top end of the lake, 440 00:23:27,083 --> 00:23:30,325 we've repaired the wall, we've replaced the sluice, got all of 441 00:23:30,325 --> 00:23:31,225 that functioning. 442 00:23:31,745 --> 00:23:33,666 The work was soon put to the test. 443 00:23:33,666 --> 00:23:38,116 And during that work, so we went through three major storms and 444 00:23:38,116 --> 00:23:41,358 for the first time in I think 20 years the basement didn't flood 445 00:23:41,918 --> 00:23:44,460 because we cleared the surface water culvert. 446 00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:45,260 Congratulations. 447 00:23:45,260 --> 00:23:48,642 So we were, time we had the high rainfall, we kind of looked 448 00:23:48,662 --> 00:23:51,604 around the project team and looked at Heather and went we 449 00:23:51,604 --> 00:23:53,585 think we might have fixed the flooding problem, but we're not 450 00:23:53,645 --> 00:23:56,607 going to get too excited. And then after the second heavy 451 00:23:56,687 --> 00:23:59,228 rainfall event, we did have some high fives at that point and 452 00:23:59,228 --> 00:24:00,399 said I think we've cracked it. 453 00:24:00,399 --> 00:24:02,250 And then after the third one, we were actually quite relaxed 454 00:24:02,290 --> 00:24:05,263 going, I think we've solved the problem. Yeah, let the rain 455 00:24:05,343 --> 00:24:09,126 come. So we now know that that lakeside culvert is absolutely 456 00:24:09,226 --> 00:24:15,841 key to keeping the mansion dry. And also now we can lower the 457 00:24:15,841 --> 00:24:17,370 lake levels so we can pre-empt heavy rainfall and we can 458 00:24:17,410 --> 00:24:20,272 actually lower the lake so that it's got more capacity because 459 00:24:20,272 --> 00:24:22,213 it will take all of the water runoff. 460 00:24:24,435 --> 00:24:27,817 The project was successful, and the team now regularly clean the 461 00:24:27,877 --> 00:24:31,046 clay culvert to allow the water to flow through. But it is 462 00:24:31,086 --> 00:24:33,789 showing signs of wear, so it will need to be replaced soon. 463 00:24:34,490 --> 00:24:37,472 The fight to keep Blickling Hall from flooding will continue. 464 00:24:38,253 --> 00:24:40,235 Heather shared her thoughts on the work so far. 465 00:24:40,756 --> 00:24:44,940 This project is gold star all around because from concept 466 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,582 through to completion was, I think, what, 18 months? 467 00:24:48,243 --> 00:24:51,005 In the heritage world, that's a very speedy project. 468 00:24:51,486 --> 00:24:55,139 It was so important that we got on top of that conservation of 469 00:24:55,139 --> 00:24:55,790 the lake wall. 470 00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:59,272 It's quite a delicate process, but it's all underground and 471 00:24:59,372 --> 00:25:02,194 underwater and you spend a lot of money and you don't see a lot 472 00:25:02,194 --> 00:25:04,775 of change other than knowing that the water's going where it 473 00:25:04,796 --> 00:25:05,236 needs to go. 474 00:25:05,816 --> 00:25:08,498 I have to say, it's a lot of work. That's quite impressive. 475 00:25:08,538 --> 00:25:08,938 Well done. 476 00:25:09,378 --> 00:25:09,739 Thank you. 477 00:25:10,219 --> 00:25:13,629 When these places were built, they didn't anticipate the 478 00:25:13,629 --> 00:25:16,592 amount of rainfall that we're now seeing, so that's that other 479 00:25:16,752 --> 00:25:19,374 added kind of headache that we now need to look at. 480 00:25:19,735 --> 00:25:22,497 After the tour of Blickling, Heather and Omniya shared what 481 00:25:22,577 --> 00:25:24,919 they feel they have gained from the twinning so far. 482 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,464 For me, straight away, I'm seeing a team. And I'd love to 483 00:25:30,504 --> 00:25:34,968 see a team. And Bayt al-Razzaz is as functioning and loving as 484 00:25:34,968 --> 00:25:37,831 the Blickling team. And I think I was just telling Heather, I'd 485 00:25:37,851 --> 00:25:40,701 love to know as well how engagement, your volunteer 486 00:25:40,801 --> 00:25:43,742 system must be also something very exciting to explore. 487 00:25:44,622 --> 00:25:48,024 We don't have that volunteer system yet. So, yeah, so I think 488 00:25:48,384 --> 00:25:51,885 for me, it's just that seeing that the team exists, that 489 00:25:51,885 --> 00:25:53,426 encourages me to create my own. 490 00:25:54,126 --> 00:25:59,388 I am endlessly impressed by you, Omniya, actually. Just when 491 00:25:59,668 --> 00:26:04,030 somebody cares so much. I really like the way that you were kind 492 00:26:04,030 --> 00:26:06,691 of inviting people into Bayt al-Razzaz because, you know, 493 00:26:07,571 --> 00:26:10,777 once they get in there, they're going to understand it, they're 494 00:26:10,777 --> 00:26:12,517 going to love it and they're going to want to help. 495 00:26:13,138 --> 00:26:16,259 Isn't it interesting? It's about people. Climate change is real. 496 00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:19,340 We're seeing the impact of it. We can share the practical 497 00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:22,621 stuff. We can share things about, you know, here's a report 498 00:26:22,661 --> 00:26:25,443 I did and here's my monitoring but actually all of that is 499 00:26:25,503 --> 00:26:27,303 driven by people. 500 00:26:27,644 --> 00:26:28,544 Totally yes yeah. 501 00:26:48,604 --> 00:26:52,405 What an inspiring place to end this episode a relationship 502 00:26:52,485 --> 00:26:55,486 built between people who are now friends and between cultures 503 00:26:55,486 --> 00:26:58,987 that are vastly different but facing each challenge together. 504 00:27:00,087 --> 00:27:02,808 If you want to find out more about the INTO twinning 505 00:27:02,848 --> 00:27:06,689 partnership, Bayt al-Razzaz or Blickling, please search for 506 00:27:06,849 --> 00:27:11,191 INTO Withstanding Change or INTO on the National Trust website. 507 00:27:11,811 --> 00:27:14,932 The Withstanding Change project has been funded by the British 508 00:27:14,992 --> 00:27:18,717 Council. To hear more episodes of the National Trust Podcast, 509 00:27:18,777 --> 00:27:22,619 please subscribe to wherever you get your podcasts. Until next 510 00:27:22,639 --> 00:27:23,819 time, goodbye. 511 00:27:28,181 --> 00:27:31,502 Our award-winning Members Magazine is now digital. It 512 00:27:31,542 --> 00:27:34,864 includes the same great content as the print magazine, plus 513 00:27:34,984 --> 00:27:39,045 interactive features like videos, soundscapes and podcasts 514 00:27:39,305 --> 00:27:43,247 like this one. For a taste of what to expect, along with five 515 00:27:43,307 --> 00:27:46,709 delicious regional recipes from Trust places, go to 516 00:27:46,869 --> 00:27:54,034 nationaltrust.org.uk/historic-r- ecipes, or see this episode's 517 00:27:54,054 --> 00:27:56,075 show notes to find out how to switch. 518 00:27:57,716 --> 00:28:00,598 Whatever your choice, you'll be helping look after nature, 519 00:28:00,718 --> 00:28:03,840 beauty and history, for everyone, forever.