1 00:00:03,128 --> 00:00:06,214 INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where we 2 00:00:06,214 --> 00:00:09,259 INTRO: share learning and expertise in child protection from 3 00:00:09,259 --> 00:00:12,262 INTRO: inside and outside of the organisation. 4 00:00:12,262 --> 00:00:15,390 INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and 5 00:00:15,390 --> 00:00:18,518 INTRO: share good practice on how we can all work together 6 00:00:18,518 --> 00:00:21,312 INTRO: to keep babies, children and young people safe. 7 00:00:24,315 --> 00:00:26,317 NATALIE DORMER: Hello, I'm Natalie Dormer. 8 00:00:26,776 --> 00:00:29,070 NATALIE DORMER: I'm an actor and producer in the world of TV 9 00:00:29,070 --> 00:00:31,990 NATALIE DORMER: and film, but I'm also very proud to be a 10 00:00:31,990 --> 00:00:35,076 NATALIE DORMER: Childline ambassador for the NSPCC, 11 00:00:35,076 --> 00:00:38,288 NATALIE DORMER: and I've been involved with the NSPCC for the last eight years now. 12 00:00:38,288 --> 00:00:44,335 NATALIE DORMER: So today I'm here on the NSPCC Learning Podcast with two teachers to 13 00:00:44,335 --> 00:00:46,463 NATALIE DORMER: talk about what it's like to teach sex and 14 00:00:46,463 --> 00:00:48,673 NATALIE DORMER: relationships education, some of the 15 00:00:48,673 --> 00:00:52,510 NATALIE DORMER: challenges schools can face and some advice, tips and support. 16 00:00:53,178 --> 00:00:56,264 NATALIE DORMER: In 2020, the Everyone's Invited 17 00:00:56,264 --> 00:00:58,266 NATALIE DORMER: campaign highlighted the number of young 18 00:00:58,266 --> 00:01:00,560 NATALIE DORMER: people who have experienced sexual 19 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,354 NATALIE DORMER: harassment and abuse in secondary schools. 20 00:01:03,354 --> 00:01:05,065 NATALIE DORMER: In the same year, sex and relationships 21 00:01:05,065 --> 00:01:08,151 NATALIE DORMER: education became a statutory part of 22 00:01:08,151 --> 00:01:10,945 NATALIE DORMER: the curriculum in England and Wales. 23 00:01:10,945 --> 00:01:13,907 NATALIE DORMER: The NSPCC recognised the need for a service 24 00:01:13,907 --> 00:01:17,035 NATALIE DORMER: that supports schools and teachers to 25 00:01:17,035 --> 00:01:19,537 NATALIE DORMER: confidently deliver sex and relationships 26 00:01:19,537 --> 00:01:22,540 NATALIE DORMER: education, helping young people to recognise 27 00:01:22,540 --> 00:01:26,961 NATALIE DORMER: healthy relationships and seek help if they need it. 28 00:01:26,961 --> 00:01:30,465 NATALIE DORMER: And so in 2021, the NSPCC 29 00:01:30,465 --> 00:01:33,384 NATALIE DORMER: launched Talk Relationships to support 30 00:01:33,384 --> 00:01:35,845 NATALIE DORMER: secondary schools and their teachers with 31 00:01:35,845 --> 00:01:38,765 NATALIE DORMER: the really quite complex and sensitive task 32 00:01:38,765 --> 00:01:41,851 NATALIE DORMER: of effective sex and relationships education 33 00:01:41,851 --> 00:01:45,772 NATALIE DORMER: as a vital role in the safeguarding of young people. 34 00:01:46,314 --> 00:01:49,400 NATALIE DORMER: An elearning course was designed to increase 35 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,653 NATALIE DORMER: the skills, confidence and knowledge of 36 00:01:51,653 --> 00:01:53,988 NATALIE DORMER: teachers tasked with this. 37 00:01:53,988 --> 00:01:56,491 NATALIE DORMER: And a series of lesson plans was created too 38 00:01:56,491 --> 00:01:58,576 NATALIE DORMER: to help teachers and schools with the big 39 00:01:58,576 --> 00:02:01,579 NATALIE DORMER: questions of what is age appropriate and 40 00:02:01,579 --> 00:02:04,290 NATALIE DORMER: other particular challenges in this area. 41 00:02:04,290 --> 00:02:06,835 NATALIE DORMER: These are all available to you online, 42 00:02:06,835 --> 00:02:09,879 NATALIE DORMER: teachers listening right now as I speak, and 43 00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:12,382 NATALIE DORMER: our two guests today have had a chance to 44 00:02:12,382 --> 00:02:14,425 NATALIE DORMER: look at them themselves. 45 00:02:14,425 --> 00:02:16,636 NATALIE DORMER: Now, whilst designing and launching these 46 00:02:16,636 --> 00:02:19,639 NATALIE DORMER: online resources, there was also a research 47 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,308 NATALIE DORMER: project commissioned by the NSPCC and 48 00:02:22,308 --> 00:02:25,728 NATALIE DORMER: conducted by Cardiff University and UCL, 49 00:02:25,728 --> 00:02:28,398 NATALIE DORMER: that surveyed young people's thoughts and 50 00:02:28,398 --> 00:02:31,609 NATALIE DORMER: experiences on relationships, sex and 51 00:02:31,609 --> 00:02:33,278 NATALIE DORMER: sexuality. 52 00:02:33,278 --> 00:02:35,864 NATALIE DORMER: That report, titled 'We Have to Educate 53 00:02:35,864 --> 00:02:38,449 NATALIE DORMER: Ourselves', had fascinating insights and 54 00:02:38,449 --> 00:02:40,743 NATALIE DORMER: results that I will also touch on with my 55 00:02:40,743 --> 00:02:43,204 NATALIE DORMER: two lovely teachers here today, and it's 56 00:02:43,204 --> 00:02:46,249 NATALIE DORMER: available on the NSPCC Learning website 57 00:02:46,249 --> 00:02:49,210 NATALIE DORMER: for you to download now. 58 00:02:49,210 --> 00:02:51,754 NATALIE DORMER: So, just to say, for the purpose of today's 59 00:02:51,754 --> 00:02:54,257 NATALIE DORMER: podcast, we'll use the term ‘sex and 60 00:02:54,257 --> 00:02:56,885 NATALIE DORMER: relationships education’ to encompass the 61 00:02:56,885 --> 00:02:58,887 NATALIE DORMER: whole range of different terms used across 62 00:02:58,887 --> 00:03:01,097 NATALIE DORMER: the four nations of the UK. 63 00:03:01,097 --> 00:03:03,349 NATALIE DORMER: Some of you listening will know it as RSHE 64 00:03:03,349 --> 00:03:07,145 NATALIE DORMER: in England, RSHP in Scotland or RSE 65 00:03:07,145 --> 00:03:08,730 NATALIE DORMER: in Wales and Northern Ireland. 66 00:03:08,730 --> 00:03:11,774 NATALIE DORMER: But for our purposes, to save confusion, 67 00:03:11,774 --> 00:03:14,569 NATALIE DORMER: we'll refer to it as sex and relationship 68 00:03:14,569 --> 00:03:17,780 NATALIE DORMER: education. The next phase of the NSPCC's 69 00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:20,116 NATALIE DORMER: Talk Relationships is looking at that 70 00:03:20,116 --> 00:03:22,869 NATALIE DORMER: feedback — what young people have said — and 71 00:03:22,869 --> 00:03:25,496 NATALIE DORMER: more research about how the NSPCC can really 72 00:03:25,496 --> 00:03:28,750 NATALIE DORMER: help schools and teachers embed healthy 73 00:03:28,750 --> 00:03:31,878 NATALIE DORMER: relationships into the wider school culture 74 00:03:31,878 --> 00:03:35,965 NATALIE DORMER: and empower young people to speak up and seek help. 75 00:03:35,965 --> 00:03:39,636 NATALIE DORMER: Launched this April 2024, is a new 76 00:03:39,636 --> 00:03:41,596 NATALIE DORMER: whole school approach to sex and 77 00:03:41,596 --> 00:03:44,265 NATALIE DORMER: relationships education as part of the Talk 78 00:03:44,265 --> 00:03:47,185 NATALIE DORMER: Relationships resources, and we hope that 79 00:03:47,185 --> 00:03:49,729 NATALIE DORMER: this podcast today goes some way to helping 80 00:03:49,729 --> 00:03:51,981 NATALIE DORMER: start that conversation. 81 00:03:51,981 --> 00:03:54,525 NATALIE DORMER: So without further ado, who better to talk 82 00:03:54,525 --> 00:03:55,944 NATALIE DORMER: about these responsibilities and 83 00:03:55,944 --> 00:03:58,947 NATALIE DORMER: opportunities than to hear from two teachers 84 00:03:58,947 --> 00:04:02,200 NATALIE DORMER: who are actually delivering SRE, and to hear 85 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,369 NATALIE DORMER: them share their own experiences and 86 00:04:04,369 --> 00:04:06,537 NATALIE DORMER: thoughts — two dear friends of mine that 87 00:04:06,537 --> 00:04:08,373 NATALIE DORMER: I'm so grateful have taken time to join me 88 00:04:08,373 --> 00:04:10,750 NATALIE DORMER: today — Pete and Sarah. 89 00:04:10,750 --> 00:04:13,044 NATALIE DORMER: Guys, would you like to introduce yourselves? 90 00:04:13,044 --> 00:04:14,337 PETE BASHAM: Hi, I'm Peter Basham. 91 00:04:14,337 --> 00:04:17,840 PETE BASHAM: I'm a teacher of science and form tutor 92 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:19,634 PETE BASHAM: in a state-funded secondary school. 93 00:04:19,634 --> 00:04:23,846 PETE BASHAM: And I deliver what we call PSHE, but is the programme. 94 00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:25,848 SARAH OAKES: My name is Sarah Oakes. I work in an 95 00:04:25,848 --> 00:04:28,685 SARAH OAKES: independent prep school in Dorset, and my role 96 00:04:28,685 --> 00:04:30,353 SARAH OAKES: is director of performing arts. 97 00:04:30,353 --> 00:04:34,315 SARAH OAKES: But on top of that, I am head of RSE and PSHE as well. 98 00:04:34,774 --> 00:04:37,318 SARAH OAKES: I deliver the curriculum to my form 99 00:04:37,318 --> 00:04:39,028 SARAH OAKES: as well as overseeing the curriculum for 100 00:04:39,028 --> 00:04:39,612 SARAH OAKES: the whole school. 101 00:04:39,862 --> 00:04:42,282 NATALIE DORMER: So I think the obvious question to start 102 00:04:42,282 --> 00:04:45,827 NATALIE DORMER: with is how does SRE in your schools 103 00:04:45,827 --> 00:04:48,413 NATALIE DORMER: compare to how you were taught this subject 104 00:04:48,413 --> 00:04:50,164 NATALIE DORMER: when you were young? 105 00:04:50,164 --> 00:04:52,625 PETE BASHAM: I think when I was young, it wasn't really a 106 00:04:52,625 --> 00:04:53,668 PETE BASHAM: particularly well delivered thing. 107 00:04:53,918 --> 00:04:55,003 PETE BASHAM: There wasn't a lot of 108 00:04:56,838 --> 00:04:59,841 PETE BASHAM: insight into any kind of diversity or inclusion 109 00:04:59,841 --> 00:05:02,885 PETE BASHAM: of anything other than what was considered 110 00:05:02,885 --> 00:05:04,804 PETE BASHAM: then the norm, I guess. 111 00:05:04,804 --> 00:05:07,765 PETE BASHAM: And even then it was mainly delivered in a 112 00:05:07,765 --> 00:05:10,059 PETE BASHAM: biological, clinical way of just 113 00:05:10,059 --> 00:05:12,562 PETE BASHAM: preventing teenage pregnancy, basically. 114 00:05:12,562 --> 00:05:16,232 NATALIE DORMER: With no nod to emotional engagement. 115 00:05:16,482 --> 00:05:18,526 PETE BASHAM: Yeah. None. None at all. Compared to now when 116 00:05:18,526 --> 00:05:21,279 PETE BASHAM: there's a lot more around consent and around 117 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,407 PETE BASHAM: the emotional impact of sex. 118 00:05:24,407 --> 00:05:27,452 PETE BASHAM: And I think that, yeah, in my day, 119 00:05:27,452 --> 00:05:28,828 PETE BASHAM: there was none of that. 120 00:05:28,828 --> 00:05:30,913 SARAH OAKES: It was all incredibly taboo, wasn't it, to even 121 00:05:30,913 --> 00:05:32,707 SARAH OAKES: say the word, I think. 122 00:05:32,707 --> 00:05:34,959 SARAH OAKES: And so much scaremongering, as well as just 123 00:05:34,959 --> 00:05:37,962 SARAH OAKES: sort of focusing on the negative aspects of 124 00:05:37,962 --> 00:05:39,964 SARAH OAKES: developing your bodies enough to want to have sex 125 00:05:39,964 --> 00:05:41,466 SARAH OAKES: and all the things that come with that. 126 00:05:41,466 --> 00:05:43,176 SARAH OAKES: There was certainly no emotional aspect. 127 00:05:43,176 --> 00:05:46,262 SARAH OAKES: And it was all taught 128 00:05:46,262 --> 00:05:48,473 SARAH OAKES: with an entirely binary approach as well. 129 00:05:48,890 --> 00:05:50,975 SARAH OAKES: So the inclusivity and the diversity of the 130 00:05:50,975 --> 00:05:54,270 SARAH OAKES: conversations that we managed to have now are far 131 00:05:54,270 --> 00:05:57,398 SARAH OAKES: away from what I certainly experienced when I was at school. 132 00:05:57,732 --> 00:06:01,277 NATALIE DORMER: But having read the survey that the NSPCC 133 00:06:01,277 --> 00:06:03,571 NATALIE DORMER: commissioned, it still feels like the 134 00:06:03,571 --> 00:06:06,866 NATALIE DORMER: feedback from the young people is 135 00:06:06,866 --> 00:06:09,327 NATALIE DORMER: that sex and relationship education can 136 00:06:09,327 --> 00:06:11,704 NATALIE DORMER: still be quite poor and patchy. 137 00:06:12,497 --> 00:06:14,957 NATALIE DORMER: What I found so fascinating about the survey 138 00:06:14,957 --> 00:06:17,627 NATALIE DORMER: was looking across a whole range of 139 00:06:17,627 --> 00:06:20,797 NATALIE DORMER: elements from social media, popular 140 00:06:20,797 --> 00:06:23,216 NATALIE DORMER: culture, peer pressure. 141 00:06:23,216 --> 00:06:25,218 NATALIE DORMER: I mean, obviously social media is a massive 142 00:06:25,218 --> 00:06:27,011 NATALIE DORMER: one that we'll talk about today. 143 00:06:27,011 --> 00:06:29,305 NATALIE DORMER: But let's start on the positive. 144 00:06:29,305 --> 00:06:32,016 NATALIE DORMER: Let's talk about some of the successes that 145 00:06:32,016 --> 00:06:33,768 NATALIE DORMER: you guys have had in your experience of 146 00:06:33,768 --> 00:06:35,978 NATALIE DORMER: teaching sex and relationships education. 147 00:06:35,978 --> 00:06:38,564 NATALIE DORMER: Is there something that springs to mind 148 00:06:38,564 --> 00:06:41,943 NATALIE DORMER: where you can cite some really positive 149 00:06:41,943 --> 00:06:43,945 NATALIE DORMER: movement in this area? Sarah. 150 00:06:44,404 --> 00:06:47,031 SARAH OAKES: So we've recently had a fantastic day of 151 00:06:47,031 --> 00:06:48,574 SARAH OAKES: workshops — actually from an outside company — 152 00:06:48,574 --> 00:06:51,285 SARAH OAKES: which is a really great way to freshen things 153 00:06:51,285 --> 00:06:52,745 SARAH OAKES: up a little bit. The children have a different 154 00:06:52,745 --> 00:06:54,080 SARAH OAKES: voice to listen to and some different 155 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,040 SARAH OAKES: activities to do. It was a day that the 156 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,042 SARAH OAKES: children really weren't expecting and included 157 00:06:58,042 --> 00:07:01,045 SARAH OAKES: some model making of various body 158 00:07:01,045 --> 00:07:02,755 SARAH OAKES: parts, which was really great fun. 159 00:07:03,756 --> 00:07:06,175 SARAH OAKES: The overuse of the word vulva at the school 160 00:07:06,175 --> 00:07:09,095 SARAH OAKES: that day was increased 1,000%. 161 00:07:09,095 --> 00:07:11,639 SARAH OAKES: But it was a really, really fun day and just 162 00:07:11,639 --> 00:07:13,766 SARAH OAKES: normalised a whole heap of things that people 163 00:07:13,766 --> 00:07:16,102 SARAH OAKES: just really struggle to talk about a lot of the 164 00:07:16,102 --> 00:07:18,813 SARAH OAKES: time. And everybody had a really fun time. 165 00:07:18,813 --> 00:07:20,148 SARAH OAKES: And like I said, it was a different voice to 166 00:07:20,148 --> 00:07:23,401 SARAH OAKES: listen to and was a really nice practical 167 00:07:23,401 --> 00:07:25,611 SARAH OAKES: way of talking about things. 168 00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:29,991 PETE BASHAM: In my school recently, in the last few years 169 00:07:29,991 --> 00:07:32,702 PETE BASHAM: there's a big focus on EDI and the EDI coordinator— 170 00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:34,328 NATALIE DORMER: EDI, Pete, tell me about it. 171 00:07:34,328 --> 00:07:35,329 PETE BASHAM: Equality, diversity and inclusion. 172 00:07:36,831 --> 00:07:38,249 PETE BASHAM: One of the great things about that is currently 173 00:07:38,249 --> 00:07:41,210 PETE BASHAM: we've got an assistant EDI coordinator, who is 174 00:07:41,210 --> 00:07:45,089 PETE BASHAM: a former student and only recently was a student. 175 00:07:45,089 --> 00:07:48,176 PETE BASHAM: And he has been running talks 176 00:07:48,176 --> 00:07:51,053 PETE BASHAM: on what it's like to come out as a young gay man 177 00:07:51,053 --> 00:07:56,267 PETE BASHAM: in a boys' school, his experiences, and been doing whole school 178 00:07:56,267 --> 00:07:59,020 PETE BASHAM: assemblies across the whole school from year 179 00:07:59,020 --> 00:08:00,938 PETE BASHAM: seven all the way up. And that's been really 180 00:08:00,938 --> 00:08:03,566 PETE BASHAM: interesting to see how differently students 181 00:08:03,566 --> 00:08:05,485 PETE BASHAM: respond to someone who's really close to their 182 00:08:05,485 --> 00:08:08,529 PETE BASHAM: age who is only just a few years 183 00:08:08,529 --> 00:08:11,616 PETE BASHAM: ahead, compared to if it was someone, 184 00:08:11,616 --> 00:08:13,367 PETE BASHAM: sort of coming in, who was our age. 185 00:08:13,367 --> 00:08:15,036 NATALIE DORMER: Holding an authoritative— or a grown-up 186 00:08:15,036 --> 00:08:16,287 NATALIE DORMER: authoritative figure, yeah. PETE BASHAM: Yeah, exactly. 187 00:08:16,746 --> 00:08:19,457 PETE BASHAM: And so that's been a real success and has led 188 00:08:19,457 --> 00:08:22,001 PETE BASHAM: to wider conversations in the school around 189 00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:25,296 PETE BASHAM: that and how we can continue to 190 00:08:25,296 --> 00:08:28,674 PETE BASHAM: grow and be as inclusive a school as we can be. 191 00:08:28,674 --> 00:08:31,177 SARAH OAKES: I think social media, although it poses so many 192 00:08:31,177 --> 00:08:33,429 SARAH OAKES: issues for children, I think the normalising of 193 00:08:33,429 --> 00:08:35,890 SARAH OAKES: even talking about things like this is a great 194 00:08:35,890 --> 00:08:38,684 SARAH OAKES: product of that. Children are much more used to 195 00:08:38,684 --> 00:08:40,853 SARAH OAKES: certain terminologies and starting 196 00:08:40,853 --> 00:08:43,564 SARAH OAKES: conversations about things that it becomes a 197 00:08:43,564 --> 00:08:45,066 SARAH OAKES: little easier to start a conversation 198 00:08:45,066 --> 00:08:46,108 SARAH OAKES: with children these days. 199 00:08:46,108 --> 00:08:48,778 NATALIE DORMER: There's more peer-to-peer exchange of information. 200 00:08:48,778 --> 00:08:50,988 SARAH OAKES: Absolutely. But I think they're still gleaning 201 00:08:50,988 --> 00:08:53,282 SARAH OAKES: too much information from social media and 202 00:08:53,282 --> 00:08:56,202 SARAH OAKES: trusting in it far too much because 203 00:08:56,202 --> 00:08:58,037 SARAH OAKES: there is still stigma within schools and within 204 00:08:58,037 --> 00:08:59,914 SARAH OAKES: delivering those lessons. 205 00:09:00,373 --> 00:09:02,959 PETE BASHAM: Yeah. I think, in terms of what 206 00:09:02,959 --> 00:09:05,461 PETE BASHAM: is working, like you say, 207 00:09:05,461 --> 00:09:07,797 PETE BASHAM: the fact that the conversations are easier to 208 00:09:07,797 --> 00:09:10,007 PETE BASHAM: start with the students because they already 209 00:09:10,007 --> 00:09:12,176 PETE BASHAM: have a baseline knowledge, whether it's from 210 00:09:12,176 --> 00:09:15,429 PETE BASHAM: social media, or from their parents or whoever, 211 00:09:15,429 --> 00:09:17,723 PETE BASHAM: or from their peers. The difficulty is then 212 00:09:17,723 --> 00:09:19,559 PETE BASHAM: sometimes there's misconceptions there. 213 00:09:20,476 --> 00:09:22,228 PETE BASHAM: The reverse side of that is that if they've got 214 00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:25,523 PETE BASHAM: the information from TikTok, who's giving them that information? 215 00:09:25,523 --> 00:09:27,233 NATALIE DORMER: And I think that young people — from what I 216 00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:29,277 NATALIE DORMER: read in the survey — I feel like young 217 00:09:29,277 --> 00:09:30,903 NATALIE DORMER: people are aware of that. 218 00:09:31,112 --> 00:09:34,448 NATALIE DORMER: They're aware to be suspicious of the resources 219 00:09:34,448 --> 00:09:35,157 NATALIE DORMER: And they wish that there 220 00:09:35,157 --> 00:09:37,994 NATALIE DORMER: was almost a stamp of approval that they 221 00:09:37,994 --> 00:09:40,413 NATALIE DORMER: knew whether a website or a platform was 222 00:09:40,413 --> 00:09:42,456 NATALIE DORMER: trustworthy in its information or not. 223 00:09:42,456 --> 00:09:44,125 NATALIE DORMER: It feels like they're asking for that. 224 00:09:44,125 --> 00:09:45,418 SARAH OAKES: I think they are, but I think they're still 225 00:09:45,418 --> 00:09:47,003 SARAH OAKES: getting it wrong. I think there's a lot of 226 00:09:47,003 --> 00:09:49,755 SARAH OAKES: influence out there that is very misguided 227 00:09:49,755 --> 00:09:52,967 SARAH OAKES: and underhand, and is still leading people 228 00:09:52,967 --> 00:09:55,428 SARAH OAKES: in the wrong directions; young people in the wrong directions. 229 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,263 NATALIE DORMER: Okay. So that's great because that's leading 230 00:09:57,263 --> 00:09:59,640 NATALIE DORMER: us on to the next question, really, about 231 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,225 NATALIE DORMER: what you think some of the biggest 232 00:10:01,225 --> 00:10:03,769 NATALIE DORMER: challenges for teachers are when delivering 233 00:10:03,769 --> 00:10:06,063 NATALIE DORMER: sex and relationship education. 234 00:10:06,063 --> 00:10:07,690 NATALIE DORMER: We're talking about the potential for 235 00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:10,776 NATALIE DORMER: misinformation as one, for social media, 236 00:10:10,776 --> 00:10:13,321 NATALIE DORMER: that teachers might be combatting. 237 00:10:13,321 --> 00:10:15,865 NATALIE DORMER: What do you think, Sarah, is the 238 00:10:15,865 --> 00:10:19,035 NATALIE DORMER: biggest challenge in delivering? 239 00:10:19,577 --> 00:10:21,412 SARAH OAKES: The hugest challenge, I think, is having the 240 00:10:21,412 --> 00:10:24,206 SARAH OAKES: confidence to open up a conversation when you 241 00:10:24,206 --> 00:10:25,916 SARAH OAKES: don't know where it's going to go. Children 242 00:10:25,916 --> 00:10:28,044 SARAH OAKES: will ask you absolutely anything if they're in 243 00:10:28,044 --> 00:10:30,087 SARAH OAKES: a safe space to do so, which they should be in 244 00:10:30,087 --> 00:10:33,132 SARAH OAKES: this scenario. And having that confidence to 245 00:10:33,132 --> 00:10:37,511 SARAH OAKES: just open up a room, not knowing 246 00:10:37,511 --> 00:10:39,221 SARAH OAKES: what's going to come your way. And when you're 247 00:10:39,221 --> 00:10:41,432 SARAH OAKES: starting out as a teacher, often you don't know 248 00:10:41,432 --> 00:10:43,434 SARAH OAKES: you're going to end up teaching PSHE. 249 00:10:43,434 --> 00:10:46,228 SARAH OAKES: It's not a subject that you go to university to 250 00:10:46,228 --> 00:10:48,731 SARAH OAKES: study, to then become a teacher in. 251 00:10:48,731 --> 00:10:51,025 SARAH OAKES: And so many of us end up delivering those 252 00:10:51,025 --> 00:10:52,860 SARAH OAKES: lessons to our forms or to our year groups 253 00:10:53,444 --> 00:10:55,780 SARAH OAKES: and it's a huge responsibility. 254 00:10:55,780 --> 00:10:59,283 SARAH OAKES: And I think when you've got social media 255 00:10:59,283 --> 00:11:01,160 SARAH OAKES: saying all kinds of things to the pupils in 256 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:02,995 SARAH OAKES: front of you, you have to be three steps 257 00:11:02,995 --> 00:11:06,207 SARAH OAKES: ahead of that. So if somebody asks you about 258 00:11:06,207 --> 00:11:08,793 SARAH OAKES: Andrew Tate, for instance, you have to know a 259 00:11:08,793 --> 00:11:10,795 SARAH OAKES: little bit about Andrew Tate to be able to 260 00:11:10,795 --> 00:11:13,381 SARAH OAKES: set the record straight on a lot of those things. 261 00:11:14,799 --> 00:11:16,717 SARAH OAKES: So it's not knowing what's going to come your way. 262 00:11:16,717 --> 00:11:19,387 SARAH OAKES: And not every teacher feels 263 00:11:19,387 --> 00:11:22,348 SARAH OAKES: 100% happy and confident in that environment. 264 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,350 PETE BASHAM: Yeah. One of the things that I think I'll pick 265 00:11:24,350 --> 00:11:26,519 PETE BASHAM: up on is that when you train as a teacher, 266 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:29,063 PETE BASHAM: you're a subject specialist and you train to 267 00:11:29,063 --> 00:11:31,232 PETE BASHAM: teach a particular subject. So, in my case, it 268 00:11:31,232 --> 00:11:33,609 PETE BASHAM: was biology. So whilst I might teach a little 269 00:11:33,609 --> 00:11:35,695 PETE BASHAM: bit of physics as well or a bit of chemistry, 270 00:11:35,695 --> 00:11:37,363 PETE BASHAM: my main focus is biology. 271 00:11:37,363 --> 00:11:39,448 PETE BASHAM: So I very much feel like the expert in the room. 272 00:11:39,824 --> 00:11:41,450 PETE BASHAM: Whereas sometimes with some of the 273 00:11:41,450 --> 00:11:43,661 PETE BASHAM: questions that you get fielded in a PSHE 274 00:11:43,661 --> 00:11:46,455 PETE BASHAM: class, you don't always feel like the expert in 275 00:11:46,455 --> 00:11:48,874 PETE BASHAM: the room. And that can be quite challenging for a teacher. 276 00:11:48,874 --> 00:11:51,919 NATALIE DORMER: A teacher doesn't become a teacher with the 277 00:11:51,919 --> 00:11:55,464 NATALIE DORMER: sole motivation, very often, of delivering 278 00:11:55,464 --> 00:11:56,966 NATALIE DORMER: sex and relationship education. 279 00:11:56,966 --> 00:11:57,842 NATALIE DORMER: It's an add-on. 280 00:11:57,842 --> 00:12:01,137 PETE BASHAM: It's an add-on, yeah. NATALIE DORMER: And for some teachers, I'm presuming it's an 281 00:12:01,137 --> 00:12:03,347 NATALIE DORMER: add-on that they find quite daunting. 282 00:12:03,347 --> 00:12:05,599 PETE BASHAM: Yes, because also one of the things that 283 00:12:05,599 --> 00:12:08,686 PETE BASHAM: happens with that is that it's an add-on with a 284 00:12:08,686 --> 00:12:13,107 PETE BASHAM: heap of legislation and government-mandated 285 00:12:13,107 --> 00:12:16,110 PETE BASHAM: legal requirements, which can be 286 00:12:16,110 --> 00:12:19,071 PETE BASHAM: quite intimidating for an early career teacher; 287 00:12:19,071 --> 00:12:21,866 PETE BASHAM: because you know that you have to deliver 288 00:12:21,866 --> 00:12:23,200 PETE BASHAM: a certain number of things, and if you don't do that, 289 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,286 PETE BASHAM: you've failed in your statutory duty. 290 00:12:25,286 --> 00:12:28,456 PETE BASHAM: So that means that often, I think that's why 291 00:12:28,456 --> 00:12:31,584 PETE BASHAM: some PSHE lessons end up with just following 292 00:12:31,584 --> 00:12:33,711 PETE BASHAM: the presentation on the board, because at least 293 00:12:33,711 --> 00:12:35,921 PETE BASHAM: then we know we've got everything ticked off. 294 00:12:35,921 --> 00:12:37,673 PETE BASHAM: So it's not terribly creative. 295 00:12:37,673 --> 00:12:40,176 PETE BASHAM: All the things you learn about how to teach 296 00:12:40,176 --> 00:12:43,095 PETE BASHAM: effectively, we don't tend to do in PSHE 297 00:12:43,095 --> 00:12:45,681 PETE BASHAM: because you are so concerned about 298 00:12:45,681 --> 00:12:50,227 PETE BASHAM: making sure you hit a statutory requirement legally as well. 299 00:12:50,227 --> 00:12:53,272 SARAH OAKES: And as a subject specific teacher, you often 300 00:12:53,272 --> 00:12:55,065 SARAH OAKES: end up having a form or a tutor group that you 301 00:12:55,065 --> 00:12:56,734 SARAH OAKES: are pastorally in charge of; 302 00:12:57,485 --> 00:13:00,404 SARAH OAKES: and alongside that comes the PSHE teaching that you 303 00:13:00,404 --> 00:13:02,531 SARAH OAKES: probably didn't bargain for when you were training 304 00:13:02,531 --> 00:13:03,824 SARAH OAKES: to be a teacher. PETE BASHAM: Yeah. 305 00:13:04,366 --> 00:13:06,994 NATALIE DORMER: And I think that creative point is a really 306 00:13:06,994 --> 00:13:08,662 NATALIE DORMER: great one to pick up on. It seems that the 307 00:13:08,662 --> 00:13:10,956 NATALIE DORMER: feedback from the young people 308 00:13:11,707 --> 00:13:15,336 NATALIE DORMER: seems to be that they would like more say 309 00:13:15,336 --> 00:13:18,547 NATALIE DORMER: in how they are taught these 310 00:13:18,547 --> 00:13:21,592 NATALIE DORMER: issues and these facts and advised, that has 311 00:13:21,592 --> 00:13:24,678 NATALIE DORMER: more of an interactive element to it, 312 00:13:24,678 --> 00:13:27,139 NATALIE DORMER: that can be a little bit more creative. 313 00:13:27,139 --> 00:13:29,016 NATALIE DORMER: So maybe it feels... 314 00:13:30,017 --> 00:13:32,186 NATALIE DORMER: Coming away from the script, so to speak, as Pete's 315 00:13:32,186 --> 00:13:35,231 NATALIE DORMER: talking about. But also those scripts 316 00:13:35,231 --> 00:13:38,567 NATALIE DORMER: that schools have for how to deliver SRE 317 00:13:38,567 --> 00:13:40,236 NATALIE DORMER: vary widely, don't they? 318 00:13:40,236 --> 00:13:43,072 NATALIE DORMER: And this is this is the beauty of the NSPCC 319 00:13:43,072 --> 00:13:45,866 NATALIE DORMER: Talk Relationships course and the lesson 320 00:13:45,866 --> 00:13:48,619 NATALIE DORMER: plans is it's really designed in the way 321 00:13:48,619 --> 00:13:51,997 NATALIE DORMER: of leaning into helping a non-confident 322 00:13:51,997 --> 00:13:54,416 NATALIE DORMER: teacher deliver this information in a way 323 00:13:54,416 --> 00:13:56,794 NATALIE DORMER: that seems more approachable for the young 324 00:13:56,794 --> 00:13:59,004 NATALIE DORMER: people. I mean, you guys have looked at the 325 00:13:59,004 --> 00:14:02,007 NATALIE DORMER: course. How did you find it in comparison to 326 00:14:02,007 --> 00:14:03,801 NATALIE DORMER: what you'd experienced before? 327 00:14:03,801 --> 00:14:05,761 PETE BASHAM: I thought it was a really, really good course, 328 00:14:05,761 --> 00:14:07,471 PETE BASHAM: and I'd recommend everyone do it because I 329 00:14:07,471 --> 00:14:10,349 PETE BASHAM: think it's something that — we might come onto 330 00:14:10,349 --> 00:14:12,184 PETE BASHAM: it later — but it's something that's not really 331 00:14:12,184 --> 00:14:14,270 PETE BASHAM: in my [training]. I did my initial teacher 332 00:14:14,270 --> 00:14:17,147 PETE BASHAM: training a few years back, and then I've also 333 00:14:17,147 --> 00:14:19,108 PETE BASHAM: done what's called the early careers teachers 334 00:14:19,108 --> 00:14:22,027 PETE BASHAM: framework, which is a couple of years of extra 335 00:14:22,027 --> 00:14:24,947 PETE BASHAM: support and a slightly reduced timetable. 336 00:14:24,947 --> 00:14:27,074 PETE BASHAM: But even through all of that, I haven't really 337 00:14:27,074 --> 00:14:28,742 PETE BASHAM: had a huge amount of training. 338 00:14:28,742 --> 00:14:32,079 PETE BASHAM: And so the tips and the advice in that 339 00:14:32,079 --> 00:14:34,290 PETE BASHAM: course were really helpful in terms of managing 340 00:14:34,290 --> 00:14:37,293 PETE BASHAM: a room, managing difficult conversations; how 341 00:14:37,293 --> 00:14:40,671 PETE BASHAM: to prioritise safeguarding but 342 00:14:40,671 --> 00:14:43,674 PETE BASHAM: also still allow conversations to happen. 343 00:14:43,674 --> 00:14:45,426 PETE BASHAM: There was something called 'protective interrupting', 344 00:14:45,426 --> 00:14:47,011 PETE BASHAM: which I really like — the idea of how to 345 00:14:47,011 --> 00:14:49,597 PETE BASHAM: interrupt a student so that you're validating 346 00:14:49,597 --> 00:14:51,932 PETE BASHAM: their point and you're appreciative of their 347 00:14:52,391 --> 00:14:54,184 PETE BASHAM: contribution, however, you're actually 348 00:14:54,184 --> 00:14:56,937 PETE BASHAM: protecting that student from giving away or 349 00:14:56,937 --> 00:14:59,607 PETE BASHAM: exposing personal information about themselves, 350 00:14:59,607 --> 00:15:01,692 PETE BASHAM: which could then become a further safeguarding 351 00:15:01,692 --> 00:15:04,194 PETE BASHAM: issue. And it was just really nice, almost like 352 00:15:04,194 --> 00:15:05,195 PETE BASHAM: a script, that you can use. 353 00:15:05,195 --> 00:15:06,363 NATALIE DORMER: Tidbits like that, yeah. 354 00:15:06,363 --> 00:15:08,032 PETE BASHAM: And things like that, that you just don't have 355 00:15:08,032 --> 00:15:09,408 PETE BASHAM: time to do when you're training. 356 00:15:09,742 --> 00:15:11,327 PETE BASHAM: And then you're sort of there with, like you 357 00:15:11,327 --> 00:15:14,371 PETE BASHAM: say, a year 11 form who are very much 358 00:15:14,371 --> 00:15:17,249 PETE BASHAM: in the thick of all of this, and they might 359 00:15:17,249 --> 00:15:18,584 PETE BASHAM: come at you with all sorts of things. 360 00:15:18,584 --> 00:15:20,669 PETE BASHAM: And so it's being aware of the legal 361 00:15:20,669 --> 00:15:22,796 PETE BASHAM: requirements and obviously your own school's 362 00:15:22,796 --> 00:15:25,507 PETE BASHAM: safeguarding policy, but then also being able 363 00:15:25,507 --> 00:15:26,884 PETE BASHAM: to encourage conversation. 364 00:15:26,884 --> 00:15:29,011 PETE BASHAM: Because actually that's one of the best ways 365 00:15:29,011 --> 00:15:31,221 PETE BASHAM: that, you know, that sort of Socratic method 366 00:15:31,221 --> 00:15:33,390 PETE BASHAM: that we use in the classroom, isn't often used 367 00:15:33,390 --> 00:15:36,101 PETE BASHAM: in PSHE. And I think that's where it can be really helpful. 368 00:15:36,435 --> 00:15:38,979 NATALIE DORMER: One of the great things I saw that the young 369 00:15:38,979 --> 00:15:41,440 NATALIE DORMER: people were mentioning in their feedback was 370 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,275 NATALIE DORMER: they would like to encourage teachers to 371 00:15:43,275 --> 00:15:45,361 NATALIE DORMER: split them more often into their friendship 372 00:15:45,361 --> 00:15:50,908 NATALIE DORMER: groups, to talk in smaller groups about particular issues. 373 00:15:51,825 --> 00:15:53,369 NATALIE DORMER: They feel safe, obviously, in their 374 00:15:53,369 --> 00:15:55,704 NATALIE DORMER: friendship groups and therefore more likely 375 00:15:55,704 --> 00:15:58,499 NATALIE DORMER: to explore or question things that they're 376 00:15:58,499 --> 00:16:01,335 NATALIE DORMER: not sure about, or give opinion or share 377 00:16:01,335 --> 00:16:03,462 NATALIE DORMER: experiences that might be troubling them. 378 00:16:03,462 --> 00:16:05,673 NATALIE DORMER: And it's just something so simple as that, 379 00:16:05,673 --> 00:16:07,508 NATALIE DORMER: right? It's actually a very simple thing to 380 00:16:07,508 --> 00:16:09,134 NATALIE DORMER: do — break a class up into friendship groups 381 00:16:09,134 --> 00:16:11,387 NATALIE DORMER: — and yet it would make a world of difference. 382 00:16:11,387 --> 00:16:14,390 SARAH OAKES: And I think just the environmental space is so 383 00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:16,016 SARAH OAKES: important for sharing. 384 00:16:16,016 --> 00:16:17,685 SARAH OAKES: And it's much more efficient to teach a whole 385 00:16:17,685 --> 00:16:19,311 SARAH OAKES: year group about something that you need to get 386 00:16:19,311 --> 00:16:20,771 SARAH OAKES: ticked off, or you need to get covered — to 387 00:16:20,771 --> 00:16:22,690 SARAH OAKES: just get everyone together, tell them the 388 00:16:22,690 --> 00:16:24,441 SARAH OAKES: information, and then, you know, invite 389 00:16:24,441 --> 00:16:26,777 SARAH OAKES: questions. But people aren't going to share if 390 00:16:26,777 --> 00:16:28,404 SARAH OAKES: they don't feel safe and they don't feel like 391 00:16:28,404 --> 00:16:31,490 SARAH OAKES: they've got their friends right behind them in 392 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:33,867 SARAH OAKES: that moment. So yeah, creating that 393 00:16:33,867 --> 00:16:36,620 SARAH OAKES: environmental safety, I think is vital. 394 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:38,872 PETE BASHAM: Yeah. Because a student has to feel confident 395 00:16:38,872 --> 00:16:42,167 PETE BASHAM: and safe in order to contribute in any class. 396 00:16:42,668 --> 00:16:44,044 PETE BASHAM: You know, to put their hand up and answer a 397 00:16:44,044 --> 00:16:46,046 PETE BASHAM: question is a big thing for a lot of students. 398 00:16:46,046 --> 00:16:49,883 PETE BASHAM: And so, in a PSHE lesson or an RSE lesson, it 399 00:16:49,883 --> 00:16:52,928 PETE BASHAM: is even more challenging for them; 400 00:16:52,928 --> 00:16:55,264 PETE BASHAM: actually to talk in front of a whole year group 401 00:16:55,264 --> 00:16:57,307 PETE BASHAM: or a whole class is almost impossible. 402 00:16:57,307 --> 00:16:59,101 NATALIE DORMER: I mean we don't talk about these things as adults. 403 00:16:59,101 --> 00:17:02,312 NATALIE DORMER: So why should it be any 404 00:17:02,312 --> 00:17:04,940 NATALIE DORMER: easier for them with all the social pressures? 405 00:17:04,940 --> 00:17:07,776 SARAH OAKES: A teenager doesn't want to ask a question about something personal. 406 00:17:07,776 --> 00:17:10,154 SARAH OAKES: If they're unsure, you know, they'll get ribbed 407 00:17:10,154 --> 00:17:11,655 SARAH OAKES: in the playground or, you know... 408 00:17:11,655 --> 00:17:13,991 SARAH OAKES: They need to know that they can safely ask 409 00:17:13,991 --> 00:17:15,284 SARAH OAKES: what they need to ask. 410 00:17:15,284 --> 00:17:16,785 NATALIE DORMER: And that's where I think the lesson plans 411 00:17:16,785 --> 00:17:18,412 NATALIE DORMER: and so forth that are available with the 412 00:17:18,412 --> 00:17:21,415 NATALIE DORMER: NSPCC Talk Relationships — these 413 00:17:21,415 --> 00:17:23,959 NATALIE DORMER: ideas about doing scenarios where you can 414 00:17:23,959 --> 00:17:27,504 NATALIE DORMER: explore questions in depersonalised 415 00:17:27,504 --> 00:17:29,673 NATALIE DORMER: or anonymous ways, you know, writing 416 00:17:29,673 --> 00:17:31,633 NATALIE DORMER: questions and putting them in a jar and 417 00:17:31,633 --> 00:17:35,262 NATALIE DORMER: reading them out. There's all these 418 00:17:35,262 --> 00:17:37,806 NATALIE DORMER: hacks into how you can 419 00:17:37,806 --> 00:17:40,100 NATALIE DORMER: get the subject matter to come from them. 420 00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:41,769 NATALIE DORMER: Because, I mean, the thing that surprised me 421 00:17:41,769 --> 00:17:44,063 NATALIE DORMER: the most was the amount 422 00:17:44,063 --> 00:17:47,399 NATALIE DORMER: of feedback that was, you know, RSE 423 00:17:47,399 --> 00:17:50,319 NATALIE DORMER: experience, sex and relationship experience, 424 00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:52,321 NATALIE DORMER: often for the young people, it feels like 425 00:17:52,321 --> 00:17:54,281 NATALIE DORMER: it's too little, too late. 426 00:17:54,281 --> 00:17:55,783 NATALIE DORMER: And like you guys said, they've already 427 00:17:55,783 --> 00:18:00,245 NATALIE DORMER: filled in the gaps with unreliable online sources. 428 00:18:00,621 --> 00:18:03,707 NATALIE DORMER: So what I love about this NSPCC initiative 429 00:18:03,707 --> 00:18:06,919 NATALIE DORMER: is that it's putting the focus back 430 00:18:06,919 --> 00:18:10,005 NATALIE DORMER: on what the young people want to talk about, 431 00:18:10,005 --> 00:18:12,633 NATALIE DORMER: making sure that we stay relevant to what's 432 00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:14,885 NATALIE DORMER: happening in their lives. 433 00:18:14,885 --> 00:18:16,637 SARAH OAKES: Exactly. The world is changing so much faster 434 00:18:16,637 --> 00:18:18,722 SARAH OAKES: at the moment seemingly than it ever did when 435 00:18:18,722 --> 00:18:20,265 SARAH OAKES: we were at their stage of life. 436 00:18:20,265 --> 00:18:22,810 SARAH OAKES: And keeping on top of that, following their 437 00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:25,104 SARAH OAKES: lead a little bit, I think is so important. 438 00:18:25,104 --> 00:18:27,397 PETE BASHAM: In the report — the Sexuality 439 00:18:27,397 --> 00:18:29,900 PETE BASHAM: Education Plus report — there was a 440 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:33,028 PETE BASHAM: quote from one of the students about how they 441 00:18:33,028 --> 00:18:35,030 PETE BASHAM: didn't want to talk to their parents about any 442 00:18:35,030 --> 00:18:36,824 PETE BASHAM: of this because the world that their parents 443 00:18:36,824 --> 00:18:38,408 PETE BASHAM: grew up in and the problems that their parents 444 00:18:38,408 --> 00:18:40,786 PETE BASHAM: had is not the world that the child currently 445 00:18:40,786 --> 00:18:44,248 PETE BASHAM: lives in. And so they didn't see how they could be helpful. 446 00:18:44,248 --> 00:18:46,291 NATALIE DORMER: Oh that's fascinating. So it's not even that 447 00:18:46,291 --> 00:18:48,043 NATALIE DORMER: some are reticent because they're 448 00:18:48,043 --> 00:18:50,003 NATALIE DORMER: embarrassed; it's literally they think their 449 00:18:50,003 --> 00:18:52,089 NATALIE DORMER: parents experience is not relevant. 450 00:18:52,422 --> 00:18:54,466 PETE BASHAM: Exactly. Yeah. Because if you think about the 451 00:18:54,466 --> 00:18:56,468 PETE BASHAM: world we grew up in, it was very different. 452 00:18:56,468 --> 00:18:58,220 PETE BASHAM: And the mobile phone obviously has a massive 453 00:18:58,220 --> 00:18:59,596 PETE BASHAM: impact on that. 454 00:18:59,596 --> 00:19:02,057 PETE BASHAM: But it's not just that. It's also computing, 455 00:19:02,057 --> 00:19:05,477 PETE BASHAM: online gaming, all of the other social media 456 00:19:05,477 --> 00:19:06,937 PETE BASHAM: and things like that. 457 00:19:06,937 --> 00:19:10,482 PETE BASHAM: And I think what's good about the training was 458 00:19:10,482 --> 00:19:12,526 PETE BASHAM: things like, say, taking an ABC approach — 459 00:19:12,526 --> 00:19:14,361 PETE BASHAM: agree, build and challenge. 460 00:19:14,361 --> 00:19:17,906 PETE BASHAM: And so when you're taking the subject matter 461 00:19:17,906 --> 00:19:20,409 PETE BASHAM: for all the questions from your students, you 462 00:19:20,409 --> 00:19:22,035 PETE BASHAM: can kind of... If they give you something 463 00:19:22,035 --> 00:19:24,454 PETE BASHAM: that's a misconception, you can agree in terms 464 00:19:24,454 --> 00:19:28,500 PETE BASHAM: of the subject, but you can then build on that concept. 465 00:19:29,084 --> 00:19:31,128 PETE BASHAM: And so you sort of meet them where they are 466 00:19:31,128 --> 00:19:33,380 PETE BASHAM: and then you don't leave them there. You take them 467 00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:35,382 PETE BASHAM: to the relevant information or the correct 468 00:19:35,382 --> 00:19:37,885 PETE BASHAM: information and then signpost to further 469 00:19:37,885 --> 00:19:40,387 PETE BASHAM: information if they need it — all within, 470 00:19:40,387 --> 00:19:42,681 PETE BASHAM: obviously, a safeguarding policy of the school. 471 00:19:42,973 --> 00:19:45,517 PETE BASHAM: But I think having that concept of actually 472 00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:48,270 PETE BASHAM: going to find them, almost, because if 473 00:19:48,270 --> 00:19:50,981 PETE BASHAM: you just deliver a flat blanket piece of 474 00:19:50,981 --> 00:19:54,484 PETE BASHAM: information to a teenager, they're going to totally switch off. 475 00:19:54,484 --> 00:19:56,695 NATALIE DORMER: Yeah. They want lessons that are interactive, 476 00:19:56,695 --> 00:19:58,155 NATALIE DORMER: that are discussion-based and that are 477 00:19:58,155 --> 00:20:00,574 NATALIE DORMER: creative so that they can feel involved; 478 00:20:00,574 --> 00:20:02,868 NATALIE DORMER: that they can feel in control of their 479 00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:04,995 NATALIE DORMER: sex and relationship curriculum. 480 00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:06,330 NATALIE DORMER: And I mean, the other thing I suppose we 481 00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:08,081 NATALIE DORMER: didn't mention when we all introduced 482 00:20:08,081 --> 00:20:10,417 NATALIE DORMER: ourselves is all three of us are parents. 483 00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:12,127 NATALIE DORMER: And, you know, this is something that gives 484 00:20:12,127 --> 00:20:14,963 NATALIE DORMER: parents literally sleepless nights as 485 00:20:14,963 --> 00:20:17,007 NATALIE DORMER: well, thinking about these things. 486 00:20:17,341 --> 00:20:20,385 NATALIE DORMER: So, I mean, I would urge parents listening 487 00:20:20,385 --> 00:20:22,387 NATALIE DORMER: as well — who aren't teachers — to this 488 00:20:22,387 --> 00:20:24,806 NATALIE DORMER: podcast to take an interest, a strong 489 00:20:24,806 --> 00:20:26,683 NATALIE DORMER: interest in, you know, the resources that 490 00:20:26,683 --> 00:20:28,977 NATALIE DORMER: are available with Talk Relationships by the 491 00:20:28,977 --> 00:20:32,022 NATALIE DORMER: NSPCC as well. Because we get terrified 492 00:20:32,022 --> 00:20:33,857 NATALIE DORMER: by what we hear in the news about the 493 00:20:33,857 --> 00:20:36,735 NATALIE DORMER: sharing of nudes and the proportion of 494 00:20:36,735 --> 00:20:38,737 NATALIE DORMER: children that have seen pornography by a 495 00:20:38,737 --> 00:20:41,740 NATALIE DORMER: certain age, and it can be very easy 496 00:20:41,740 --> 00:20:43,700 NATALIE DORMER: for you as a parent and a teacher, one 497 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,536 NATALIE DORMER: presumes, to go into sort of like panic mode 498 00:20:46,536 --> 00:20:48,288 NATALIE DORMER: or firefighting mode. 499 00:20:48,288 --> 00:20:50,999 NATALIE DORMER: It's us all taking a deep breath, I suppose. 500 00:20:50,999 --> 00:20:52,626 SARAH OAKES: Well it is. And I think from my experience, I 501 00:20:52,626 --> 00:20:55,420 SARAH OAKES: now have a teenager, which is one of the most 502 00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:58,799 SARAH OAKES: horrifying stages of parenting, so far. 503 00:20:58,799 --> 00:21:01,176 SARAH OAKES: And I can, you know, know all the things 504 00:21:01,176 --> 00:21:02,844 SARAH OAKES: through my work and through my job. 505 00:21:02,844 --> 00:21:04,596 SARAH OAKES: But applying that in, you know, in inverted 506 00:21:04,596 --> 00:21:07,140 SARAH OAKES: commas, 'in real life' is quite 507 00:21:07,140 --> 00:21:09,184 SARAH OAKES: a different experience. And, you know, he'll 508 00:21:09,184 --> 00:21:10,560 SARAH OAKES: roll his eyes at me, obviously, because he's a 509 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,271 SARAH OAKES: teenager and that's what happens. 510 00:21:13,355 --> 00:21:17,776 SARAH OAKES: But he knows I know the stuff and if I look 511 00:21:17,776 --> 00:21:19,778 SARAH OAKES: like I'm about to start preaching an RSE lesson 512 00:21:19,778 --> 00:21:21,405 SARAH OAKES: at him, then he'll sort of wander off. 513 00:21:21,405 --> 00:21:24,324 SARAH OAKES: But it is an entirely different experience. 514 00:21:24,324 --> 00:21:27,244 SARAH OAKES: So I think it's so important that parents, as 515 00:21:27,244 --> 00:21:28,704 SARAH OAKES: well as the teachers delivering these lessons, 516 00:21:28,704 --> 00:21:31,290 SARAH OAKES: are 100% on board with the things that we are 517 00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:32,874 SARAH OAKES: saying in the classroom. 518 00:21:32,874 --> 00:21:35,627 NATALIE DORMER: This is where it seems right for me just to 519 00:21:35,627 --> 00:21:38,213 NATALIE DORMER: add in that the NSPCC does have a 520 00:21:38,213 --> 00:21:40,632 NATALIE DORMER: whole lot of new parenting resources on 521 00:21:40,632 --> 00:21:43,510 NATALIE DORMER: their main NSPCC website, which 522 00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:45,846 NATALIE DORMER: guide parents in how to have conversations 523 00:21:45,846 --> 00:21:47,806 NATALIE DORMER: with your children about healthy 524 00:21:47,806 --> 00:21:49,433 NATALIE DORMER: relationships. So I know we're primarily 525 00:21:49,433 --> 00:21:51,977 NATALIE DORMER: talking about formalised 526 00:21:51,977 --> 00:21:54,813 NATALIE DORMER: education in schools today, but it's just a 527 00:21:54,813 --> 00:21:57,691 NATALIE DORMER: shout out here to parents who want a helping 528 00:21:57,691 --> 00:22:01,737 NATALIE DORMER: hand as well. That exists, folks, on the NSPCC website. 529 00:22:01,737 --> 00:22:03,739 NATALIE DORMER: We've moved towards parents. 530 00:22:03,739 --> 00:22:06,742 NATALIE DORMER: So what are some of the effective ways 531 00:22:06,742 --> 00:22:09,036 NATALIE DORMER: to engage parents in sex and relationship 532 00:22:09,036 --> 00:22:11,788 NATALIE DORMER: education, and what are the benefits? 533 00:22:11,788 --> 00:22:13,957 NATALIE DORMER: I mean, they seem obvious, but please. 534 00:22:13,957 --> 00:22:16,418 SARAH OAKES: Well, there are challenges. I mean, we write to 535 00:22:16,418 --> 00:22:18,587 SARAH OAKES: our parents; we inform them of the curriculum, 536 00:22:18,587 --> 00:22:20,964 SARAH OAKES: the topics that their child will be learning 537 00:22:20,964 --> 00:22:23,800 SARAH OAKES: that year in their PSHE and RSE lessons. 538 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,095 SARAH OAKES: And they have an option to ask more questions, 539 00:22:27,095 --> 00:22:29,431 SARAH OAKES: to see more detailed lesson content if they 540 00:22:29,431 --> 00:22:32,142 SARAH OAKES: wish, and also, if they really want to, 541 00:22:32,142 --> 00:22:33,977 SARAH OAKES: to withdraw their child from some of those 542 00:22:33,977 --> 00:22:36,980 SARAH OAKES: lessons. And there are some earmarked 543 00:22:36,980 --> 00:22:40,484 SARAH OAKES: topics that the children can be withdrawn from. 544 00:22:41,485 --> 00:22:43,820 SARAH OAKES: And for me, there's a little 545 00:22:43,820 --> 00:22:46,573 SARAH OAKES: bit of fear there, that some children, 546 00:22:46,573 --> 00:22:49,451 SARAH OAKES: due to so many different reasons, won't be able to 547 00:22:49,451 --> 00:22:51,286 SARAH OAKES: access some important information and some 548 00:22:51,286 --> 00:22:53,038 SARAH OAKES: important learning opportunities as well. 549 00:22:53,038 --> 00:22:56,708 SARAH OAKES: So I think the communication between school and parents is really vital. 550 00:22:57,042 --> 00:22:58,877 SARAH OAKES: Getting them in to talk to them a little bit as well. 551 00:22:58,877 --> 00:23:00,754 SARAH OAKES: And sometimes it is just a case of saying, 552 00:23:00,754 --> 00:23:02,172 SARAH OAKES: 'it may not be everything you think 553 00:23:02,172 --> 00:23:04,800 SARAH OAKES: it's going to be, it might not be as bad as you 554 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,010 SARAH OAKES: think, but these are the things we're going to 555 00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:08,387 SARAH OAKES: say to your children'. 556 00:23:08,387 --> 00:23:10,430 SARAH OAKES: And it's very difficult, I think, quite a lot 557 00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:11,848 SARAH OAKES: of the time for them to say, 'well, I don't want 558 00:23:11,848 --> 00:23:13,558 SARAH OAKES: you to say that to them', because there are 559 00:23:13,558 --> 00:23:16,478 SARAH OAKES: incredibly important and good reasons to say those things. 560 00:23:16,478 --> 00:23:18,480 NATALIE DORMER: Safeguarding reasons. SARAH OAKES: Absolutely. 561 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,023 SARAH OAKES: Talking about healthy relationships is the 562 00:23:20,023 --> 00:23:22,526 SARAH OAKES: basis of all of it, and knowing what is and 563 00:23:22,526 --> 00:23:23,860 SARAH OAKES: isn’t acceptable in your life. 564 00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:26,655 PETE BASHAM: Yeah, I think there's obviously cultural and 565 00:23:26,655 --> 00:23:31,660 PETE BASHAM: religious reasons why some parents might choose to opt out of it. 566 00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:34,162 PETE BASHAM: And I think one of the — it actually came up on the course as well, which 567 00:23:34,162 --> 00:23:36,790 PETE BASHAM: was really interesting — was around what to do 568 00:23:36,790 --> 00:23:38,417 PETE BASHAM: in that situation. And like you were saying, 569 00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:40,752 PETE BASHAM: whatever stage you're at, I think you've hit 570 00:23:40,752 --> 00:23:43,004 PETE BASHAM: the nail on the head in bringing the parent in 571 00:23:43,004 --> 00:23:44,965 PETE BASHAM: and making it more of a conversation and not 572 00:23:44,965 --> 00:23:47,592 PETE BASHAM: too confrontational. Because I think that if a 573 00:23:47,592 --> 00:23:49,845 PETE BASHAM: parent is in a position where they're already 574 00:23:49,845 --> 00:23:52,973 PETE BASHAM: thinking about withdrawing a child from 575 00:23:52,973 --> 00:23:55,225 PETE BASHAM: something that however many percent of their 576 00:23:55,225 --> 00:23:56,768 PETE BASHAM: peers are going to be doing, they're already at 577 00:23:56,768 --> 00:23:59,229 PETE BASHAM: a stage where they've thought about this. 578 00:23:59,229 --> 00:24:01,314 PETE BASHAM: They're not going to do it light-heartedly. 579 00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:03,900 PETE BASHAM: So I feel like it has to be then a conversation 580 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:06,153 PETE BASHAM: and maybe an education 581 00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:08,071 PETE BASHAM: to the parent of what's actually included, 582 00:24:08,071 --> 00:24:11,158 PETE BASHAM: because a lot of their fears may not be actually real. 583 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:13,994 PETE BASHAM: You know, we're not going to be telling 584 00:24:13,994 --> 00:24:16,496 PETE BASHAM: students that they have to be this or they have to be that 585 00:24:16,496 --> 00:24:18,206 PETE BASHAM: or they have to behave... As I say to my 586 00:24:18,206 --> 00:24:20,459 PETE BASHAM: form, it's not my job to tell them necessarily 587 00:24:20,459 --> 00:24:22,461 PETE BASHAM: what to think, it's to teach them how to think. 588 00:24:22,461 --> 00:24:24,421 PETE BASHAM: And I think understanding— coming from a place 589 00:24:24,421 --> 00:24:26,548 PETE BASHAM: of understanding of, well, because like you 590 00:24:26,548 --> 00:24:28,550 PETE BASHAM: say, we're all parents and, you know, we 591 00:24:28,550 --> 00:24:31,386 PETE BASHAM: want our child to be brought up the way we 592 00:24:31,386 --> 00:24:33,138 PETE BASHAM: want our child to be brought up. And so when 593 00:24:33,138 --> 00:24:35,849 PETE BASHAM: you hand over your child to a school, there's 594 00:24:35,849 --> 00:24:37,476 PETE BASHAM: an awful lot of trust there. 595 00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:39,561 PETE BASHAM: And so when there are points where there might 596 00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:41,813 PETE BASHAM: be disagreement around that — and it's not 597 00:24:41,813 --> 00:24:44,274 PETE BASHAM: necessarily the big cultural things or the 598 00:24:44,274 --> 00:24:47,027 PETE BASHAM: religious things, but it could be on small things. 599 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,738 NATALIE DORMER: And it could be due to the parent's own past 600 00:24:49,738 --> 00:24:51,615 NATALIE DORMER: and personal experiences. 601 00:24:51,615 --> 00:24:53,658 NATALIE DORMER: It can be a very sensitive matter for 602 00:24:53,658 --> 00:24:55,368 NATALIE DORMER: parents as well. PETE BASHAM: Yeah. 603 00:24:55,785 --> 00:24:57,412 SARAH OAKES: But I think there are ways to have those conversations 604 00:24:57,412 --> 00:24:59,539 SARAH OAKES: and maintain that level of trust as well, and 605 00:24:59,539 --> 00:25:01,291 SARAH OAKES: just to make it clear for everybody. 606 00:25:02,083 --> 00:25:03,627 SARAH OAKES: Some things can't be overcome, but I think it's 607 00:25:03,627 --> 00:25:05,712 SARAH OAKES: always worth having those conversations when 608 00:25:05,712 --> 00:25:10,008 SARAH OAKES: it's needed, so that these kids can get the best education. 609 00:25:10,008 --> 00:25:11,885 NATALIE DORMER: At the end of the day, teachers and parents 610 00:25:11,885 --> 00:25:14,429 NATALIE DORMER: alike have the same aim in safeguarding 611 00:25:14,429 --> 00:25:16,681 NATALIE DORMER: children and preparing them so that the 612 00:25:16,681 --> 00:25:19,768 NATALIE DORMER: young people have the skills themselves to protect themselves. 613 00:25:19,768 --> 00:25:22,062 NATALIE DORMER: That's what we ultimately want. 614 00:25:22,062 --> 00:25:23,688 NATALIE DORMER: Just before we move on, I feel like 615 00:25:23,688 --> 00:25:27,108 NATALIE DORMER: returning to challenges: is time a factor? 616 00:25:27,108 --> 00:25:30,195 NATALIE DORMER: When I talk to you two, both my friends, 617 00:25:30,195 --> 00:25:31,780 NATALIE DORMER: I speak to you a lot. 618 00:25:32,572 --> 00:25:34,824 NATALIE DORMER: There is so much that seems to be going on 619 00:25:34,824 --> 00:25:36,409 NATALIE DORMER: and happening, so much that has to be 620 00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:37,577 NATALIE DORMER: covered in school. 621 00:25:37,577 --> 00:25:40,455 NATALIE DORMER: And it's like— SARAH OAKES: There's never enough time for anything! [laughter] 622 00:25:42,082 --> 00:25:45,669 NATALIE DORMER: But seriously, do you think 623 00:25:46,127 --> 00:25:49,005 NATALIE DORMER: this needs to be kicked up the priority ladder a 624 00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:50,590 NATALIE DORMER: little bit more? Doesn't it? 625 00:25:50,590 --> 00:25:53,593 NATALIE DORMER: Those in the decision-making positions 626 00:25:53,593 --> 00:25:56,137 NATALIE DORMER: within schools, do we need to carve 627 00:25:56,137 --> 00:25:57,556 NATALIE DORMER: out a little more time for this? 628 00:25:58,139 --> 00:25:59,558 PETE BASHAM: I mean, you're in a leadership position, 629 00:25:59,558 --> 00:26:01,643 PETE BASHAM: you can answer this one. I don't have to! 630 00:26:01,643 --> 00:26:04,479 SARAH OAKES: I absolutely do think it needs to have a much 631 00:26:04,479 --> 00:26:07,691 SARAH OAKES: more protected amount of time within 632 00:26:07,691 --> 00:26:09,442 SARAH OAKES: the school week and in the context of 633 00:26:09,442 --> 00:26:11,319 SARAH OAKES: absolutely everything else. But I think there 634 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:13,905 SARAH OAKES: are so many ways that aspects of it can filter 635 00:26:13,905 --> 00:26:16,533 SARAH OAKES: into other parts of the curriculum that the 636 00:26:16,533 --> 00:26:19,536 SARAH OAKES: children access. Due to the statutory aspect 637 00:26:19,536 --> 00:26:21,580 SARAH OAKES: and the high level of importance that all of 638 00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:23,832 SARAH OAKES: this has, it does need to be taken really 639 00:26:23,832 --> 00:26:27,002 SARAH OAKES: seriously. And time— giving it that time and 640 00:26:27,002 --> 00:26:29,379 SARAH OAKES: giving it the right people and the right 641 00:26:29,379 --> 00:26:31,881 SARAH OAKES: training for the right people to deliver it 642 00:26:31,881 --> 00:26:35,302 SARAH OAKES: is 100% important. It's vital. 643 00:26:35,594 --> 00:26:37,554 NATALIE DORMER: And that's what the NSPCC want to do with 644 00:26:37,554 --> 00:26:40,515 NATALIE DORMER: Talk Relationships. They want to help 645 00:26:40,515 --> 00:26:42,684 NATALIE DORMER: schools make sex and relationship education 646 00:26:42,684 --> 00:26:44,519 NATALIE DORMER: a priority across the whole school. 647 00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:47,147 NATALIE DORMER: And it's embedding that healthy idea of 648 00:26:47,147 --> 00:26:49,983 NATALIE DORMER: relationships for everyone on all levels of 649 00:26:49,983 --> 00:26:51,526 NATALIE DORMER: the school community. 650 00:26:51,526 --> 00:26:53,695 NATALIE DORMER: I mean you've basically stated that, you 651 00:26:53,695 --> 00:26:55,238 NATALIE DORMER: know, it is that whole school approach — 652 00:26:55,238 --> 00:26:57,699 NATALIE DORMER: which is what the NSPCC are trying to 653 00:26:57,699 --> 00:27:00,702 NATALIE DORMER: lend a hand to — to give teachers 654 00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:02,412 NATALIE DORMER: the confidence to think like that; 655 00:27:02,412 --> 00:27:05,999 NATALIE DORMER: to be brave and be able to think like that. 656 00:27:06,333 --> 00:27:07,834 SARAH OAKES: Absolutely. And we talk a lot in our school 657 00:27:07,834 --> 00:27:09,252 SARAH OAKES: about character education. I know a lot of 658 00:27:09,252 --> 00:27:11,671 SARAH OAKES: schools are basing so much of their pastoral 659 00:27:11,671 --> 00:27:14,132 SARAH OAKES: work on building characters. You know, who are 660 00:27:14,132 --> 00:27:16,343 SARAH OAKES: these people going to be in a few years' time? 661 00:27:16,343 --> 00:27:18,720 SARAH OAKES: And there's so much brilliant overlap with that 662 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,722 SARAH OAKES: — and with the relationships education as well — 663 00:27:21,181 --> 00:27:24,351 SARAH OAKES: that it should be so simple to 664 00:27:24,351 --> 00:27:27,020 SARAH OAKES: slot loads of these things into the conversations 665 00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:28,980 SARAH OAKES: and keep having those conversations. 666 00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:30,607 NATALIE DORMER: Is there obvious things we're missing where 667 00:27:30,607 --> 00:27:33,526 NATALIE DORMER: this can be supported in other subject areas? 668 00:27:33,526 --> 00:27:35,737 PETE BASHAM: You can integrate so much of this into other 669 00:27:35,737 --> 00:27:37,405 PETE BASHAM: curriculums. I mean obviously as a biology 670 00:27:37,405 --> 00:27:40,450 PETE BASHAM: teacher, I teach the basics of sexual 671 00:27:40,450 --> 00:27:42,952 PETE BASHAM: education from the physical point of view. 672 00:27:42,952 --> 00:27:44,829 PETE BASHAM: But there's no reason why those lessons 673 00:27:44,829 --> 00:27:47,332 PETE BASHAM: couldn't also include other things in them as 674 00:27:47,332 --> 00:27:49,125 PETE BASHAM: well as they're being delivered. 675 00:27:49,125 --> 00:27:50,669 PETE BASHAM: As they're learning about sex as a physical 676 00:27:50,669 --> 00:27:52,754 PETE BASHAM: act, they could also be learning about what are 677 00:27:52,754 --> 00:27:54,798 PETE BASHAM: the emotional impacts of this? Or how might 678 00:27:54,798 --> 00:27:56,508 PETE BASHAM: someone feel if they discover they've got an 679 00:27:56,508 --> 00:27:58,760 PETE BASHAM: STI? What might they do? I teach them these are 680 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,470 PETE BASHAM: the main STIs that you need to know to pass 681 00:28:00,470 --> 00:28:02,222 PETE BASHAM: your exam, and these are the ways you prevent 682 00:28:02,222 --> 00:28:04,015 PETE BASHAM: them, these are the contraceptives; but it's 683 00:28:04,015 --> 00:28:06,059 PETE BASHAM: totally clinical. There's no point 684 00:28:06,059 --> 00:28:07,769 PETE BASHAM: when they're learning that when there is a 685 00:28:07,769 --> 00:28:10,897 PETE BASHAM: discussion around the actual real life scenario 686 00:28:10,897 --> 00:28:12,399 PETE BASHAM: of what happens if you find out you're 687 00:28:12,399 --> 00:28:14,651 PETE BASHAM: pregnant. The problem is that if it's left up 688 00:28:14,651 --> 00:28:17,904 PETE BASHAM: to individual teachers, they may not deliver everything. 689 00:28:19,072 --> 00:28:20,824 PETE BASHAM: And then there might be a worst case scenario 690 00:28:20,824 --> 00:28:23,702 PETE BASHAM: that the students are then getting conflicting 691 00:28:23,702 --> 00:28:26,788 PETE BASHAM: opinions from their standalone PSHE 692 00:28:26,788 --> 00:28:29,874 PETE BASHAM: or RSE lesson, and then their biology teacher 693 00:28:29,874 --> 00:28:31,751 PETE BASHAM: tells them something different. And then they think, 694 00:28:31,751 --> 00:28:33,086 PETE BASHAM: 'oh, well, what do I do? 695 00:28:33,086 --> 00:28:34,546 PETE BASHAM: Well, I won't listen to either of them'. 696 00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:36,047 PETE BASHAM: Thinking about the whole school approach, I think it's 697 00:28:36,047 --> 00:28:38,425 PETE BASHAM: also important to mention 698 00:28:39,175 --> 00:28:41,177 PETE BASHAM: neurodiversity in the school as well, and the 699 00:28:41,177 --> 00:28:42,971 PETE BASHAM: diversity generally in terms of special 700 00:28:42,971 --> 00:28:45,807 PETE BASHAM: educational needs, because that can present 701 00:28:45,807 --> 00:28:48,643 PETE BASHAM: different challenges to a teacher in the 702 00:28:48,643 --> 00:28:50,770 PETE BASHAM: classroom generally, but then even more so for 703 00:28:50,770 --> 00:28:52,397 PETE BASHAM: RSE education. 704 00:28:52,397 --> 00:28:54,023 PETE BASHAM: And I think that there are particular 705 00:28:54,023 --> 00:28:56,484 PETE BASHAM: challenges that can occur with those special 706 00:28:56,484 --> 00:28:58,445 PETE BASHAM: needs that things like the Talk Relationships 707 00:28:58,445 --> 00:29:00,780 PETE BASHAM: course are very good — and there are lesson 708 00:29:00,780 --> 00:29:03,616 PETE BASHAM: plans there as well — to help with how to 709 00:29:03,616 --> 00:29:05,118 PETE BASHAM: deliver that information in a way that's 710 00:29:05,118 --> 00:29:06,536 PETE BASHAM: appropriate and is understandable. 711 00:29:06,536 --> 00:29:08,621 NATALIE DORMER: I mean, it is about information isn't it? 712 00:29:08,621 --> 00:29:10,957 NATALIE DORMER: It's about information for the young people 713 00:29:10,957 --> 00:29:13,042 NATALIE DORMER: and it's also about information access for 714 00:29:13,042 --> 00:29:16,421 NATALIE DORMER: the teachers, and for them not feeling alone 715 00:29:16,421 --> 00:29:19,632 NATALIE DORMER: and drawing on resources that do exist. 716 00:29:19,632 --> 00:29:22,218 NATALIE DORMER: Sarah and I, we had a reason to talk a few 717 00:29:22,218 --> 00:29:25,138 NATALIE DORMER: weeks ago about the Report Remove service 718 00:29:25,138 --> 00:29:27,348 NATALIE DORMER: that Childline have, in partnership with the 719 00:29:27,348 --> 00:29:29,350 NATALIE DORMER: Internet Watch Foundation. 720 00:29:30,101 --> 00:29:33,521 NATALIE DORMER: This amazing service with Report Remove 721 00:29:33,521 --> 00:29:35,690 NATALIE DORMER: — that, anyone listening right now, children 722 00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:37,650 NATALIE DORMER: under 18 will be able to find on the 723 00:29:37,650 --> 00:29:40,737 NATALIE DORMER: Childline website, and adults and parents 724 00:29:40,737 --> 00:29:42,822 NATALIE DORMER: will be able to find it 725 00:29:42,822 --> 00:29:45,784 NATALIE DORMER: there or on the Internet Watch Foundation 726 00:29:45,784 --> 00:29:48,995 NATALIE DORMER: website — where you can apply 727 00:29:48,995 --> 00:29:52,415 NATALIE DORMER: to have unwanted sexualised videos 728 00:29:52,415 --> 00:29:55,585 NATALIE DORMER: or images taken down off the internet. 729 00:29:55,585 --> 00:29:57,879 NATALIE DORMER: There is a service that is provided that can 730 00:29:57,879 --> 00:30:00,882 NATALIE DORMER: do that, and Childline have a very 731 00:30:00,882 --> 00:30:03,843 NATALIE DORMER: informative step-by-step guide on their 732 00:30:03,843 --> 00:30:05,678 NATALIE DORMER: website on how to do that. 733 00:30:05,678 --> 00:30:08,181 NATALIE DORMER: It is urgent that form tutors 734 00:30:08,181 --> 00:30:10,725 NATALIE DORMER: that are in this position of where a child 735 00:30:10,725 --> 00:30:12,727 NATALIE DORMER: might come to them, that they know exactly 736 00:30:12,727 --> 00:30:14,562 NATALIE DORMER: what is accessible to them, that they know 737 00:30:14,562 --> 00:30:17,899 NATALIE DORMER: exactly where the help already exists 738 00:30:17,899 --> 00:30:19,400 NATALIE DORMER: that they can lean on. 739 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,487 SARAH OAKES: Teachers need an armoury of links and 740 00:30:22,487 --> 00:30:24,823 SARAH OAKES: signposts where they can send children for, you 741 00:30:24,823 --> 00:30:26,991 SARAH OAKES: know, any possibility. 742 00:30:26,991 --> 00:30:30,620 SARAH OAKES: And the NSPCC is a great place to start for all of those things. 743 00:30:31,371 --> 00:30:32,705 SARAH OAKES: There might be a time where it's something that 744 00:30:32,705 --> 00:30:34,332 SARAH OAKES: you just don't know the answer to, or you don't 745 00:30:34,332 --> 00:30:37,126 SARAH OAKES: quite know the right way to say it. 746 00:30:37,126 --> 00:30:39,295 SARAH OAKES: But knowing that there are places you can go 747 00:30:39,295 --> 00:30:41,714 SARAH OAKES: for advice, or you can send the child to for 748 00:30:41,714 --> 00:30:45,218 SARAH OAKES: advice, or other adults that they can go to is 749 00:30:45,218 --> 00:30:48,012 SARAH OAKES: it's so important. You can't say nothing sometimes. 750 00:30:48,304 --> 00:30:50,932 PETE BASHAM: Yeah. And I think as a fairly recently 751 00:30:50,932 --> 00:30:52,684 PETE BASHAM: qualified teacher as well, one of the main 752 00:30:52,684 --> 00:30:55,311 PETE BASHAM: things I do as a form tutor is rely heavily on 753 00:30:55,311 --> 00:30:58,022 PETE BASHAM: my head of year. So I will, if I come across 754 00:30:58,022 --> 00:31:00,233 PETE BASHAM: something which I don't know quite how to 755 00:31:00,233 --> 00:31:01,901 PETE BASHAM: handle it, I will go to my head of year for 756 00:31:01,901 --> 00:31:03,945 PETE BASHAM: anything pastoral; who's in charge of the whole 757 00:31:03,945 --> 00:31:05,655 PETE BASHAM: year group. And they've got a lot more 758 00:31:05,655 --> 00:31:07,907 PETE BASHAM: experience and they're able to normally 759 00:31:07,907 --> 00:31:09,826 PETE BASHAM: signpost in the right direction as to whether 760 00:31:09,826 --> 00:31:12,328 PETE BASHAM: something is... Is this a safeguarding issue or 761 00:31:12,328 --> 00:31:14,414 PETE BASHAM: isn't it, for example; because I think in the 762 00:31:14,414 --> 00:31:16,124 PETE BASHAM: early days you kind of thing everything's a 763 00:31:16,124 --> 00:31:19,335 PETE BASHAM: safeguarding issue, you know, everything. And actually some things aren’t. 764 00:31:19,335 --> 00:31:23,131 PETE BASHAM: But they are still very important and need to have a pathway. 765 00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:26,342 PETE BASHAM: So having a clear understanding of what those 766 00:31:26,342 --> 00:31:29,929 PETE BASHAM: pathways are like you were saying, Sarah, about the signposting. 767 00:31:30,305 --> 00:31:32,515 PETE BASHAM: I think that's hugely important. 768 00:31:32,515 --> 00:31:33,933 PETE BASHAM: And again, not to bang on about it, but the 769 00:31:33,933 --> 00:31:36,686 PETE BASHAM: course has a lot of information on it as well, 770 00:31:36,686 --> 00:31:37,478 PETE BASHAM: which is really good. 771 00:31:37,478 --> 00:31:38,897 SARAH OAKES: I think you can get really overwhelmed with the 772 00:31:38,897 --> 00:31:41,900 SARAH OAKES: responsibility sometimes of, you know, 773 00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:43,985 SARAH OAKES: having these young people and shaping their 774 00:31:43,985 --> 00:31:47,071 SARAH OAKES: lives. It is a huge responsibility, 775 00:31:47,071 --> 00:31:52,201 SARAH OAKES: but it doesn't all rest on your shoulders. There are places to go, 776 00:31:52,201 --> 00:31:54,996 SARAH OAKES: people to ask, things to read, courses to do. 777 00:31:55,413 --> 00:31:57,290 NATALIE DORMER: I feel like we're naturally coming to a 778 00:31:57,290 --> 00:31:59,959 NATALIE DORMER: conclusion now and coming to an end now, but 779 00:31:59,959 --> 00:32:01,461 NATALIE DORMER: it feels like it's a constantly moving 780 00:32:01,461 --> 00:32:03,087 NATALIE DORMER: thing. And as Sarah's already cited, 781 00:32:03,087 --> 00:32:05,006 NATALIE DORMER: technology is constantly moving. 782 00:32:05,006 --> 00:32:08,009 NATALIE DORMER: As parents and teachers, I think, 783 00:32:08,009 --> 00:32:09,761 NATALIE DORMER: what I really found with the survey, is it's 784 00:32:09,761 --> 00:32:12,305 NATALIE DORMER: this need to touch base and keep up to date 785 00:32:12,305 --> 00:32:14,641 NATALIE DORMER: and in touch with what children want 786 00:32:14,641 --> 00:32:17,769 NATALIE DORMER: and young people need and say and what's 787 00:32:17,769 --> 00:32:19,479 NATALIE DORMER: relevant to them. And I think this is 788 00:32:19,479 --> 00:32:21,105 NATALIE DORMER: where... I suppose what we're just saying 789 00:32:21,105 --> 00:32:23,316 NATALIE DORMER: today is we are not making people eat their 790 00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:26,027 NATALIE DORMER: greens here today in the podcast; what we 791 00:32:26,027 --> 00:32:29,155 NATALIE DORMER: want to explain is the NSPCC is a 792 00:32:29,155 --> 00:32:32,283 NATALIE DORMER: helping hand, has hours and hours 793 00:32:32,283 --> 00:32:35,244 NATALIE DORMER: of information and man-hours of research and 794 00:32:35,244 --> 00:32:37,497 NATALIE DORMER: resource that should be drawn upon. 795 00:32:37,497 --> 00:32:41,334 NATALIE DORMER: And it's about engaging the young people to feel 796 00:32:41,334 --> 00:32:43,795 NATALIE DORMER: emancipated and in control of what they 797 00:32:43,795 --> 00:32:46,923 NATALIE DORMER: learn. And it's starting a dialogue, really, isn't it? 798 00:32:47,465 --> 00:32:50,259 NATALIE DORMER: So to conclude, I just want to say a huge 799 00:32:50,259 --> 00:32:52,387 NATALIE DORMER: thank you to Pete and Sarah for joining me today. 800 00:32:53,137 --> 00:32:54,097 PETE BASHAM: Thanks very much. 801 00:32:54,097 --> 00:32:55,264 SARAH OAKES: Thank you. 802 00:32:55,264 --> 00:32:57,308 NATALIE DORMER: If you're looking for advice, support or 803 00:32:57,308 --> 00:32:59,435 NATALIE DORMER: guidance that you can trust, you can visit 804 00:32:59,435 --> 00:33:04,357 NATALIE DORMER: nspcc.org.uk/talkrelationships, 805 00:33:04,357 --> 00:33:06,401 NATALIE DORMER: where you can find information on delivering 806 00:33:06,401 --> 00:33:08,945 NATALIE DORMER: sex and relationships education in your 807 00:33:08,945 --> 00:33:11,948 NATALIE DORMER: school. You can find links to all of the 808 00:33:11,948 --> 00:33:15,535 NATALIE DORMER: other resources mentioned today in the podcast shownotes 809 00:33:15,535 --> 00:33:18,162 NATALIE DORMER: And of course, as a Childline ambassador, 810 00:33:18,162 --> 00:33:19,998 NATALIE DORMER: I'm going to give a shout out to the 811 00:33:19,998 --> 00:33:22,500 NATALIE DORMER: Childline website, which has lots of great 812 00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:25,545 NATALIE DORMER: help and information for young people about relationships. 813 00:33:26,045 --> 00:33:29,132 NATALIE DORMER: They can talk to trained counsellors about 814 00:33:29,132 --> 00:33:31,092 NATALIE DORMER: anything, so if you're a young person or a 815 00:33:31,092 --> 00:33:36,973 NATALIE DORMER: child 18 or under, please call 0800 1111. 816 00:33:37,348 --> 00:33:40,601 NATALIE DORMER: That's 0800 1111, 817 00:33:40,601 --> 00:33:42,645 NATALIE DORMER: or you can chat online. 818 00:33:42,645 --> 00:33:45,523 NATALIE DORMER: And if you ever have any concerns about a 819 00:33:45,523 --> 00:33:49,152 NATALIE DORMER: child, please contact the NSPCC 820 00:33:49,152 --> 00:33:54,490 NATALIE DORMER: Helpline on 0808 800 5000 821 00:33:54,490 --> 00:34:01,247 NATALIE DORMER: or by emailing help@nspcc.org.uk. 822 00:34:01,247 --> 00:34:02,665 NATALIE DORMER: Thank you for listening. 823 00:34:06,544 --> 00:34:10,214 OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning podcast. 824 00:34:10,214 --> 00:34:13,092 OUTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content was 825 00:34:13,092 --> 00:34:15,720 OUTRO: up to date, but the world of safeguarding and child 826 00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:17,805 OUTRO: protection is ever-changing. 827 00:34:17,805 --> 00:34:19,891 OUTRO: So if you're looking for the most current 828 00:34:19,891 --> 00:34:22,602 OUTRO: safeguarding and child protection training, 829 00:34:22,602 --> 00:34:25,730 OUTRO: information or resources, please visit our 830 00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:32,195 OUTRO: website for professionals at nspcc.org.uk/learning.