HEATHER BIRKETT: Hello, and welcome to the National Trust

Podcast. I'm Heather Burkett, Garden and Outdoor Manager for

the National Trust.

Today, we journey into a story that begins with a tree. No

ordinary tree, but one that stood majestically in a gap

between the hills. A tree so iconic, it became a symbol of

the landscape itself.

On the 28th of September 2023, the world reacted with shock and

sorrow to the news that the Sycamore Gap tree had been

felled overnight.

Over the past year, we've had behind-the-scenes access to the

people closest to this story to uncover how this crisis

unfolded, what happened next, and why it's meant so much to so

many.

As I sit with a cuppa, I can't help but reflect on the

headlines that echoed around the globe. This one says, Sycamore

Gap, iconic tree seen lying next to Hadrian's Wall after being

felled.

Another declares, famous Sycamore Gap tree found cut down

overnight. And one particularly poignant headline, the last time

I visited Sycamore Gap, I never imagined I would never see it

again.

I start my journey in December 2023, just over two months after

the felling, to try and understand the impact of this

loss firsthand.

We've come to Northumberland. We're surrounded by green

rolling hills, which rise gently up and then drop away sharply,

giving the whole landscape a sense that it's been tilted on

its side.

It feels remote, other than a few cottages and the occasional

sound of a tractor or a car, and this fantastic stone wall. It's

been here for 1900 years, Hadrian's Wall is a real feature

of the landscape.

So we've reached a gap between two hills. At the bottom of the

gap, there's this fenced-off enclosure which surrounds the

stump that used to be the Sycamore Gap tree. And I'm

hoping to meet... Andrew and Luke here today who are going to

tell me a bit more about what happened.

LUKE STRASZEWSKI: Hi, I'm Luke. I'm one of the ranger team up

here on the Hadrian's Wall estate.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Hi, nice to meet you.

ANDREW POAD: My name's Andrew Poad. I'm general manager for

Northumberland Coast and Hadrian's Wall country. And as

you can hear in the background, I've got my dogs with me today.

So I've got Goose who's whining.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Hello Goose.

ANDREW POAD: He's only eight months old and Archie who's much

older and just sat quietly in the background.

HEATHER BIRKETT: So why do you think the tree was so iconic?

ANDREW POAD: It was a recognised landmark prior to its appearance

in Prince of Thieves back in 1991, that was the launch of its

career. It was referred to locally as the Kevin Costner

tree because of the film. And then my belief is with the

advent of social media, it became that symbol that

everybody wanted to capture for their Instagram moment. And in

so doing, became emblematic of this part of the world.

HEATHER BIRKETT: As well as finding fame in the Hollywood

blockbuster Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, the tree was also

awarded the title. English Tree of the Year, in 2016 by the

Woodland Trust, a further testament to its popularity.

We have a fenced off area here. It's about three metres square.

And in the centre, there is what I can only describe as a

significantly large tree stump. Luke, tell me what's happened

here.

LUKE STRASZEWSKI: The tree was a pretty striking part of the

landscape. It was around 15 metres tall, but it had a good

canopy. It was in good health. This sadly was felled overnight

in an act of vandalism and the fence is up now round to protect

the stump in the hopes that we'll get some regeneration.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Andrew were you the first to get the call when

this happened?

ANDREW POAD: Yeah the National Park are based at the Sill which

is just within sight of where we are now. Their staff spotted

there was something missing on their way into work so I got a

call from them. Initial reaction was it was a hoax because we've

had hoaxes in the past. And then we had had Storm Agnes the night

before.

The initial thought was that it's somehow blown down, but

then very quickly they managed to get the National Trail Ranger

on site who was able to clarify that it had actually been cut

down. So that shifted things considerably from a natural

accident to a deliberate act.

HEATHER BIRKETT: And it didn't take long for the news to

spread.

ANDREW POAD: Within the hour, the whole world knew because it

hit social media, my work channels, my personal channels,

everything started lighting up in front of me.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Luke, you came down here? And found a felled

tree. What happened next?

LUKE STRASZEWSKI: Our first priority was to make sure that

the site was safe because the tree had fallen onto the north

side and it was hanging up in the air. So the first thing we

needed to do was make sure that it wasn't shifting, that it

wasn't a risk to the public. So we cordoned off the area just to

make sure no one could get too close to it.

And at that point, obviously, our thought turned to what can

we do to preserve the tree? Over the next couple of days we

collected cuttings, we collected seed with the hope that we can

get some regeneration and so that we can hopefully get a new

Sycamore Gap tree.

HEATHER BIRKETT: The seeds and cuttings were immediately sent

on to the National Trust Plant Conservation Centre, a

specialist plant nursery. But there was still the pressing

matter of what to do with the tree.

ANDREW POAD: It was apparent to us, to everybody really, that we

needed to come up with a plan to remove the tree effectively.

HEATHER BIRKETT: The team then began preparing the site for the

tree's removal. But as Luke explains, there were a few

challenges to overcome.

LUKE STRASZEWSKI: So the first issue we had with it is the tree

had fallen onto Hadrian's Wall itself, and so we needed to do

what we could to preserve the UNESCO World Heritage Site. That

meant we were quite limited in our options. That meant we

needed to lift it off the Wall. So that meant we were going to

have to get a crane in.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Bringing a piece of machinery that size

into the gap was a first.

LUKE STRASZEWSKI: We are quite fortunate in that the tree was

used as a filming location for Robin Hood and a road was put in

that meant that we could get it quite close. But it was very

tricky. Sections of the tree had to be removed bit by bit and

they had to be held back as well to make sure that they didn't

roll or fall in any way.

We used the crane to lift it out and then we moved all of that

wood onto a trailer and that was taken away to another location.

It was quite a challenge. We had the world's media sat on the

little hill to the south of us. So not only were we doing

something totally unprecedented, we'd never done before, but we

had all the cameras pointing at us while we were doing it. So

that was a bit of a tense few hours.

HEATHER BIRKETT: On Friday the 13th of October, the tree was

carefully lifted off Hadrian's Wall and covertly transported to

a top secret location within the National Trust. But as a

sycamore is part of the Acer family, the team needed to act

quickly.

The clock was ticking the moment it was felled, as the sugars

within the wood could quickly lead to fungi and decay. To

preserve it as best as possible, the tree was put under the care

of a specialist team until a decision could be made on its

future.

I can see some items left at the base of the tree. Some flowers.

Homemade cross?

LUKE STRASZEWSKI: A lot of people have got a real

connection with Sycamore Gap. It's been a part of the local

community. People had proposals here. Everyone comes out here

for a picnic. People have left memorials and mementos to loved

ones who've passed away here And Sycamore Gap is just a part of

their lives..

ANDREW POAD: Having worked with it over these last 30 years, I

definitely saw how important it was to people, but I think I

hadn't appreciated the reach of that.

JUDITH WARD: It's been there all my life. You look in the gap. Oh

there's a tree. Look at all them people standing around the tree.

Look at them all come to see it, take the pictures, get their

selfies.

My name is Judith Ward and I am one of the workers and front of

house supervisor at the Twice Brewed Inn. The pub itself is

situated right on the Roman Wall alongside one of the largest

tourist destinations in England.

And then that morning my husband rang me and said the tree's down

and I went what do you mean? He says, the tree's down.

I went, no. So I jumped back in my car and I could see the cut

end of the tree and I stopped the car and I took a picture and

I put it in our group chat and then the picture started coming

in online and it's just senseless. It stood there

through the test of time.

It stood through many a storm, the harshest of weather

conditions and... My brother proposed there and it just seems

unfathomable. It's just altered the landscape forever.

HEATHER BIRKETT: The global response to the felling of the

tree has been heartfelt and touching. And in the days

following its fall, the tributes and messages came flooding in.

MARK ROBINSON: The sycamore of Sycamore Gap, more than just a

tree. It's a part of our identity, a symbol of pride and

belonging for the North East. From badges on school uniforms

to the backs of joiner's vans, it's a part of our everyday

life, whether we visit it or not.

A place of deep personal connection, of landmarks in our

lives, of romantic proposals and poignant farewells, of memories

and sandwiches shared with those we love, or of solitude and

reflection, of peace, recovery and hope. For some, its loss

lays bare the vulnerability of nature itself. My name is Mark

Robinson.

And I am an Experiences and Partnerships Curator for the

National Trust based up in the North East. I was asked to

review and collate the responses that were coming in from the

public, people's responses on social media, but in particular

the responses that people had shared in the memory room in the

exhibition at The Sill.

The memory room was a kind of a pop-up, impromptu place for

people. To share their memories of the tree, it felt important

to find a way to somehow capture that. Some people wrote long

stories, some people wrote poems, some people drew

pictures.

I think the thing that struck me the most was, particularly from

school children, that there was a huge amount of hope. There was

a lot of references to this tree will come again or we will not

forget you. It was a really humbling experience really to

spend the day reading all of the responses but also to kind of

remind yourself of just how important places can be.

HEATHER BIRKETT: And while Mark and his team were sifting

through the responses from the public, the staff at the

National Trust Plant Conservation Centre were working

against the clock.

CHRIS TRIMMER: Once material has been cut off the tree, it is

dying. So we need to get in there as soon as possible to do

our work.

I'm Chris Trimmer, I'm the Plant Conservation Centre Manager and

I look after all the rare and unusual plants in the National

Trust. I actually found out that the tree had been cut down from

our national press team. I had a phone call and essentially we

just started all the prep work behind the scenes.

To move plant material we had to issue what's called a plant

passport, did that straight away. One of our gardens

consultants were actually on site within sort of day, day and

a half afterwards. And they sent material down to us through the

post they sent first class and it arrived here nine o'clock on

Saturday morning.

We asked for seed which is one of the easiest methods of

propagation but also cuttings doing grafting budding from the

same sort of material. So by Saturday five o'clock everything

was propagated and it's all gone quite well so far.

We've got 21 cuttings, we've got five budded trees, we've got 15

grafted trees. And we've sown four seed trays so far of seeds.

But we don't know what's going to happen. But the stump that's

been left behind will probably grow as a multi stem tree. But

it'll never look the same as it did. And it'll be another two,

three hundred years before it looks good.

HEATHER BIRKETT: And then all their efforts paid off. They

successfully propagated cuttings and cultivated seeds, creating a

whole new generation of Sycamore Gap trees. The first of these

made a special journey to London in May, where it was put on

display for all to see in the National Trust Garden at the

Chelsea Flower Show.

The young seedling was placed into the Garden by

seven-year-old Charlotte and Dame Judi Dench, who

affectionately named it Antoninus, after Emperor

Hadrian's adopted son, inspired by the location of the Sycamore

Gap tree.

Charlotte and her parents, Andy and Louise, travelled down from

their home in Northumberland.

LOUISE: Well, I grew up in Hayden Bridge. Which is, what,

maybe five miles from the gap. When we found out the day it

happened, we were both at work and Charlotte was at school, and

that night went for a drive along just to see if it was

true.

And it was just so strange not seeing that tree there. It was

quite emotional. Wasn't it, when you find out and you think,

that's just a tree. Why am I getting upset over a tree? But

it's strange how a tree up in Northumberland is all over the

world. It's made such an impact on everyone.

I just remember Charlotte was saying to me one day, oh, I've

got to do this with the school, write a poem about Sycamore Gap.

HEATHER BIRKETT: A competition was set up, inviting pupils from

Henshaw Primary School, the closest school to Sycamore Gap,

in which pupils were invited to draw a picture of the tree and

write a short... Poem about what it meant to them and it was

Charlotte's poem which won.

CHARLOTTE: I went to see Hadrian's Wall and I saw a tree.

It was a mindful tree. It was a mindful famous tree. It was a

mindful famous historical tree. It was a mindful famous

historical magnificent tree. It was a mindful, famous,

historical, magnificent, welcoming tree. I really hope

Sycamore Gap goes back. When I go and see the tree, it brings

back lots of memories.

HEATHER BIRKETT: After the show, the seedling was returned to the

Plant Conservation Centre, where it continues to grow alongside

its siblings until they are ready for planting. The first

successful sapling has been gifted to His Royal Highness The

King. In honour of Celebration Day, a day dedicated to

remembering those no longer with us. This special tree will be

planted in Windsor Great Park for all visitors to enjoy.

It's now the beginning of July, ten months after the felling,

and hopes of any regrowth at the stump are starting to fade.

But at various sites in Northumberland, the first

artworks, are about to go on display. These are five prints

by Shona Branigan, who is known for her evocative tree prints.

The prints have been commissioned by the National

Trust as a creative response to the public's suggestions. This

collection, lovingly titled Heartwood, is designed to

reflect the intricate shape and essence of the tree trunk.

The five prints will be showcased together at the

Queen's Hall Hexham and then at the The Baltic Art Gallery in

Newcastle.

Then, at the end of July, I get a call from Andrew Poad, General

Manager at Hadrian's Wall, with the news that we have all been

hoping for.

ANDREW POAD: We've just heard from our colleagues at the

National Park that the stumps actually started regrowing,

which is brilliant news.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Oh, that's fantastic news, Andrew.

ANDREW POAD: Yeah, it was a real pleasant surprise to get the

call. The really nice story is the chap who found it is the

first person that was on site that confirmed that the tree had

actually been felled. He's the National Trail Ranger for

Hadrian's Wall. So it's really nice that it's him that's the

one that's spotted the regrowth first. A little bit of

serendipity there.

So the last time I was there, we got up to 12 new shoots. They're

only a few centimetres tall and a few centimetres across with

two or three leaves on each shoot. And they're a lovely

rusty red colour at the moment. And that's great. I mean, this

is nature bouncing back. This is how it responds. And whether all

the shoots survive or not remains to be seen.

I'm delighted the tree's regrowing, although it'll never

look the same as the original tree. It's the best possible

outcome we could get. So it's really nice to share, when I was

on site, sharing that with other people. What we were saying to a

lot of them who had children with them is that they're going

to need to come back in... 10, 20 years time and see the

results of what they've just witnessed.

HEATHER BIRKETT: As encouraging signs of regrowth emerge at the

stump, plans are also underway for the stored wood. After a

year of careful seasoning, the largest section has been gifted

to the Northumberland National Park Authority. CEO Tony Gates

tells us more.

TONY GATES: The National Park Authority, we own and run the...

Sill National Landscape Discovery Centre on Hadrian's

Wall.

It's the closest visitor centre to the site of Sycamore Gap. We

get about 125,000 visitors a year through the centre and it

would have been one of the most popular starting points for

people who wanted to walk to see the Sycamore Gap tree.

We gathered all the feedback that people sent to us following

the felling of the tree and one of the things that came through

is that people wanted to see some type of long-term legacy

for the tree in the Sill, In the visitor centre and so we've

negotiated with the National Trust and they've kindly agreed

to gift us the largest remaining intact section of the Sycamore

Gap tree and the idea is that we use that to create a lasting

legacy for Sycamore Gap that people can visit in the Sill

National Landscape Centre and it means that people who maybe

physically can't get as far out as the site itself can still

have some contact with the tree.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Earlier in the year a call went out for artists

to design an exhibition that would incorporate the gifted

tree section. This exhibition is set to open at the Sill in the

Northumberland National Park Discovery Centre one year after

the felling. The commissioned artists are Charlie Winnie, Nick

Greenall and Matt Sowerby.

It's a beautiful sunny day in August and I've come to a Barn

in rural Cumbria. Nestled between the majestic fells of

the Lake District and the open waters of Morecambe Bay, it's a

really special corner of Cumbria that feels incredibly tucked

away.

The Barn is home to an artist's studio where the artists

specialise in art made from wood.

We're inside the studio now and you might be able to hear a

little bit of action in the background, some sawing and

drilling, but I'm sat here with two of the artists involved.

NICK GREENALL: Good afternoon, my name's Nick Greenall and this

is Charlie Winnie and jointly we're both directors of a

community interest company called Creative Communities and

we do kind of out there art projects with members of the

community who might not normally get the opportunity to do that

kind of thing.

On this particular project, the Sycamore Gap project, we're

working with a poet called Matt Sowerby. So we've got poetry,

we've got Charlie Winnie who's an amazing steam woodbender.

HEATHER BIRKETT: We come to you Charlie, I wondered if you could

tell us a bit about your work.

CHARLIE WHINNEY: The reason you can see all these strange,

twizzly, curly shapes around you is because my sketchbook is full

of these shapes and part of the interest and the challenge for

me is to take normal wood from a tree outside and use as little

energy as possible and still achieve beautiful results.

HEATHER BIRKETT: So can I ask, have you seen the tree?

NICK GREENALL: We have. Charlie was keen to study the material

that he'd be working with, and there was a bit of mystery about

where the tree actually might be. It may be in Devon, it may

be in Berwick-upon-Tweed. And then they took us, and then the

tree out of the darkness was revealed.

CHARLIE WHINNEY: When I saw it, I'd already met, I don't know,

like 100 people who had tears when it came down. And I think

looking at the bark of the tree and all the interesting swirls

and patterns... Having already studied loads of photographs of

the living tree, and it was like, oh my God, it's you. It's

the same one. It was a strange feeling.

NICK GREENALL: Because I'd seen the tree in life in this dip on

Hadrian's Wall. It was just very aesthetic. It was the right tree

in the right place. And then seeing it cut up as a log, there

was definitely a disconnect between seeing a log of wood and

this formerly beautiful tree in life.

HEATHER BIRKETT: So Charlie, what happens next?

CHARLIE WHINNEY: There were two stages to this project. You've

come to us now about five weeks before the first stage is going

to be complete. It's going to be the one year on exhibition at

the Sill. And I'm making five giant canvases that are going to

go on the Wall. They're going to depict the tree wrapping around

the gallery, kind of life size.

And in the middle of the gallery will be our log, which the

National Trust have currently given us.

NICK GREENALL: So there'll be an opportunity for people to make

pledges. And they may be pledges of what they're going to do for

nature. And it's these pledges that will be gathered and they

will form part of the final piece that Charlie is going to

make.

HEATHER BIRKETT: So as a phase one that's an amazing way to

capture people's feelings and connection with the tree. What

happens to all those pledges afterwards?

CHARLIE WHINNEY: I'll show you so in my hands here I've got one

of our samples from the final sculpture so these are just

ideas.

HEATHER BIRKETT: I can see some twisted wood almost in a spiral

with a lovely grain on it and then engraved onto the flat side

of the twist some words. I will get chickens who will eat our

scraps.

At the exhibition at the Sill, visitors will see a section of

the felled Sycamore Gap tree, along with all the artwork

surrounding it. Charlie's also designed seating for the show,

so visitors can sit, reflect and immerse in the exhibition.

NICK GREENALL: So we're going to go next door now, and we've been

steaming some wood, so the process of steam woodbending is

we heat the wood in a steam chamber and all the lignin and

cellulose in the wood becomes malleable and then you're able

to bend it. It's quite a marvellous thing to see so let's

go and have a look.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Sounds like magic.

CHARLIE WHINNEY: So this metal thing here is a compression

strap that I'm going to put on the outside of the wood. It's

got a compression strap so it's going to literally squash all

the fibres as we bend around. The wood needs to be about 100

degrees. If it isn't then it'll break.

So this is a piece of ash that I'm putting in here. So I'm

going to put it into the compression strap, and I'm going

to see how many times I can bend this piece of ash around here.

I'm going to go for number four. There we go, there's our thing.

HEATHER BIRKETT: And then it was my turn to have a go.

CHARLIE WHINNEY: Do you see all the sculptures over there? Yes.

You're making one of them. Okay. Can you say they all look

completely different? Yes. So there's no rules? Okay. You can

do what you want.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Charlie has handed me five strands of wood

that we're going to wrap around here.

CHARLIE WHINNEY: Yeah.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Oh, it's not easy.

CHARLIE WHINNEY: That's perfect. There you go.

HEATHER BIRKETT: Like a granny knot in wood.

Thank you so much for showing me your workshop, Charlie, and to

show us how this wood is bent. And it really gives us an

insight into the kind of methods and skills involved in the work

that you're going to be doing for the Sycamore Gap project.

Stage one of the exhibition is set to run at the Sill until the

end of October, ahead of the permanent exhibition in spring

2025. Meanwhile, the saplings, which are around five feet tall,

are thriving under the expert care of the Plant Conservation

Centre.

To Mark the one-year-on anniversary, 49 of the new

Sycamore Gap trees will be available for the public to

request through the Trees of Hope campaign, while a handful

of the others have or are in the process of being allocated to

amazing projects around the country. Please head to our

episode show notes for more details.

The Sycamore Gap tree may be gone, but its legacy lives on in

a story that is far from over.

Thank you for listening to the National Trust Podcast. If

you've liked what you've heard, please make sure to subscribe on

your favourite podcast app or visit us at

www.nationaltrust.org.uk/ podcasts. Until next time, from

me, Heather Burkett, goodbye.