1 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,802 HEATHER BIRKETT: Hello, and welcome to the National Trust 2 00:00:09,842 --> 00:00:13,645 Podcast. I'm Heather Burkett, Garden and Outdoor Manager for 3 00:00:13,645 --> 00:00:14,546 the National Trust. 4 00:00:15,727 --> 00:00:19,531 Today, we journey into a story that begins with a tree. No 5 00:00:19,671 --> 00:00:23,174 ordinary tree, but one that stood majestically in a gap 6 00:00:23,294 --> 00:00:27,738 between the hills. A tree so iconic, it became a symbol of 7 00:00:27,718 --> 00:00:29,160 the landscape itself. 8 00:00:30,540 --> 00:00:35,683 On the 28th of September 2023, the world reacted with shock and 9 00:00:35,763 --> 00:00:39,424 sorrow to the news that the Sycamore Gap tree had been 10 00:00:39,544 --> 00:00:40,705 felled overnight. 11 00:00:42,046 --> 00:00:45,487 Over the past year, we've had behind-the-scenes access to the 12 00:00:45,507 --> 00:00:49,449 people closest to this story to uncover how this crisis 13 00:00:49,589 --> 00:00:54,192 unfolded, what happened next, and why it's meant so much to so 14 00:00:54,292 --> 00:00:54,492 many. 15 00:00:58,100 --> 00:01:01,463 As I sit with a cuppa, I can't help but reflect on the 16 00:01:01,523 --> 00:01:06,326 headlines that echoed around the globe. This one says, Sycamore 17 00:01:06,366 --> 00:01:11,370 Gap, iconic tree seen lying next to Hadrian's Wall after being 18 00:01:11,470 --> 00:01:11,910 felled. 19 00:01:13,071 --> 00:01:18,395 Another declares, famous Sycamore Gap tree found cut down 20 00:01:18,675 --> 00:01:23,679 overnight. And one particularly poignant headline, the last time 21 00:01:23,719 --> 00:01:27,426 I visited Sycamore Gap, I never imagined I would never see it 22 00:01:27,466 --> 00:01:27,766 again. 23 00:01:29,968 --> 00:01:34,892 I start my journey in December 2023, just over two months after 24 00:01:34,892 --> 00:01:37,574 the felling, to try and understand the impact of this 25 00:01:37,674 --> 00:01:38,715 loss firsthand. 26 00:01:43,038 --> 00:01:46,321 We've come to Northumberland. We're surrounded by green 27 00:01:46,401 --> 00:01:50,925 rolling hills, which rise gently up and then drop away sharply, 28 00:01:51,305 --> 00:01:54,307 giving the whole landscape a sense that it's been tilted on 29 00:01:54,307 --> 00:01:54,848 its side. 30 00:01:57,044 --> 00:02:01,446 It feels remote, other than a few cottages and the occasional 31 00:02:01,486 --> 00:02:06,408 sound of a tractor or a car, and this fantastic stone wall. It's 32 00:02:06,468 --> 00:02:10,830 been here for 1900 years, Hadrian's Wall is a real feature 33 00:02:10,850 --> 00:02:11,630 of the landscape. 34 00:02:13,251 --> 00:02:16,593 So we've reached a gap between two hills. At the bottom of the 35 00:02:16,633 --> 00:02:19,994 gap, there's this fenced-off enclosure which surrounds the 36 00:02:20,074 --> 00:02:23,356 stump that used to be the Sycamore Gap tree. And I'm 37 00:02:23,396 --> 00:02:25,957 hoping to meet... Andrew and Luke here today who are going to 38 00:02:25,957 --> 00:02:27,497 tell me a bit more about what happened. 39 00:02:28,317 --> 00:02:30,498 LUKE STRASZEWSKI: Hi, I'm Luke. I'm one of the ranger team up 40 00:02:30,578 --> 00:02:32,138 here on the Hadrian's Wall estate. 41 00:02:32,338 --> 00:02:33,419 HEATHER BIRKETT: Hi, nice to meet you. 42 00:02:33,899 --> 00:02:36,539 ANDREW POAD: My name's Andrew Poad. I'm general manager for 43 00:02:36,799 --> 00:02:39,380 Northumberland Coast and Hadrian's Wall country. And as 44 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,501 you can hear in the background, I've got my dogs with me today. 45 00:02:41,561 --> 00:02:42,841 So I've got Goose who's whining. 46 00:02:43,061 --> 00:02:43,541 HEATHER BIRKETT: Hello Goose. 47 00:02:43,541 --> 00:02:46,082 ANDREW POAD: He's only eight months old and Archie who's much 48 00:02:46,142 --> 00:02:47,923 older and just sat quietly in the background. 49 00:02:48,463 --> 00:02:51,023 HEATHER BIRKETT: So why do you think the tree was so iconic? 50 00:02:51,243 --> 00:02:54,505 ANDREW POAD: It was a recognised landmark prior to its appearance 51 00:02:54,545 --> 00:02:58,128 in Prince of Thieves back in 1991, that was the launch of its 52 00:02:58,188 --> 00:03:00,910 career. It was referred to locally as the Kevin Costner 53 00:03:00,970 --> 00:03:03,953 tree because of the film. And then my belief is with the 54 00:03:03,953 --> 00:03:07,295 advent of social media, it became that symbol that 55 00:03:07,335 --> 00:03:10,798 everybody wanted to capture for their Instagram moment. And in 56 00:03:11,038 --> 00:03:14,781 so doing, became emblematic of this part of the world. 57 00:03:15,682 --> 00:03:17,604 HEATHER BIRKETT: As well as finding fame in the Hollywood 58 00:03:17,644 --> 00:03:21,347 blockbuster Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, the tree was also 59 00:03:21,467 --> 00:03:25,953 awarded the title. English Tree of the Year, in 2016 by the 60 00:03:25,973 --> 00:03:29,294 Woodland Trust, a further testament to its popularity. 61 00:03:31,294 --> 00:03:35,115 We have a fenced off area here. It's about three metres square. 62 00:03:35,516 --> 00:03:38,937 And in the centre, there is what I can only describe as a 63 00:03:38,977 --> 00:03:42,858 significantly large tree stump. Luke, tell me what's happened 64 00:03:42,938 --> 00:03:43,138 here. 65 00:03:43,778 --> 00:03:46,439 LUKE STRASZEWSKI: The tree was a pretty striking part of the 66 00:03:46,459 --> 00:03:49,460 landscape. It was around 15 metres tall, but it had a good 67 00:03:49,620 --> 00:03:54,021 canopy. It was in good health. This sadly was felled overnight 68 00:03:54,321 --> 00:03:58,742 in an act of vandalism and the fence is up now round to protect 69 00:03:58,742 --> 00:04:01,403 the stump in the hopes that we'll get some regeneration. 70 00:04:02,063 --> 00:04:04,083 HEATHER BIRKETT: Andrew were you the first to get the call when 71 00:04:04,124 --> 00:04:04,644 this happened? 72 00:04:05,004 --> 00:04:07,304 ANDREW POAD: Yeah the National Park are based at the Sill which 73 00:04:07,324 --> 00:04:11,646 is just within sight of where we are now. Their staff spotted 74 00:04:11,886 --> 00:04:14,686 there was something missing on their way into work so I got a 75 00:04:14,706 --> 00:04:18,327 call from them. Initial reaction was it was a hoax because we've 76 00:04:18,347 --> 00:04:22,958 had hoaxes in the past. And then we had had Storm Agnes the night 77 00:04:22,998 --> 00:04:23,358 before. 78 00:04:23,598 --> 00:04:26,160 The initial thought was that it's somehow blown down, but 79 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,541 then very quickly they managed to get the National Trail Ranger 80 00:04:28,562 --> 00:04:31,383 on site who was able to clarify that it had actually been cut 81 00:04:31,423 --> 00:04:34,566 down. So that shifted things considerably from a natural 82 00:04:34,606 --> 00:04:36,147 accident to a deliberate act. 83 00:04:36,767 --> 00:04:38,528 HEATHER BIRKETT: And it didn't take long for the news to 84 00:04:38,568 --> 00:04:38,969 spread. 85 00:04:39,669 --> 00:04:41,771 ANDREW POAD: Within the hour, the whole world knew because it 86 00:04:41,871 --> 00:04:45,213 hit social media, my work channels, my personal channels, 87 00:04:45,393 --> 00:04:47,494 everything started lighting up in front of me. 88 00:04:48,095 --> 00:04:51,712 HEATHER BIRKETT: Luke, you came down here? And found a felled 89 00:04:51,813 --> 00:04:53,638 tree. What happened next? 90 00:04:54,070 --> 00:04:56,611 LUKE STRASZEWSKI: Our first priority was to make sure that 91 00:04:56,711 --> 00:05:00,272 the site was safe because the tree had fallen onto the north 92 00:05:00,392 --> 00:05:04,473 side and it was hanging up in the air. So the first thing we 93 00:05:04,493 --> 00:05:07,794 needed to do was make sure that it wasn't shifting, that it 94 00:05:07,814 --> 00:05:11,875 wasn't a risk to the public. So we cordoned off the area just to 95 00:05:11,875 --> 00:05:13,756 make sure no one could get too close to it. 96 00:05:14,136 --> 00:05:17,497 And at that point, obviously, our thought turned to what can 97 00:05:17,517 --> 00:05:22,494 we do to preserve the tree? Over the next couple of days we 98 00:05:22,514 --> 00:05:25,835 collected cuttings, we collected seed with the hope that we can 99 00:05:25,975 --> 00:05:29,596 get some regeneration and so that we can hopefully get a new 100 00:05:29,816 --> 00:05:30,977 Sycamore Gap tree. 101 00:05:31,497 --> 00:05:33,737 HEATHER BIRKETT: The seeds and cuttings were immediately sent 102 00:05:33,837 --> 00:05:37,118 on to the National Trust Plant Conservation Centre, a 103 00:05:37,158 --> 00:05:40,359 specialist plant nursery. But there was still the pressing 104 00:05:40,419 --> 00:05:42,440 matter of what to do with the tree. 105 00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:45,781 ANDREW POAD: It was apparent to us, to everybody really, that we 106 00:05:45,841 --> 00:05:50,302 needed to come up with a plan to remove the tree effectively. 107 00:05:50,990 --> 00:05:53,591 HEATHER BIRKETT: The team then began preparing the site for the 108 00:05:53,611 --> 00:05:57,313 tree's removal. But as Luke explains, there were a few 109 00:05:57,434 --> 00:05:58,634 challenges to overcome. 110 00:05:59,335 --> 00:06:01,816 LUKE STRASZEWSKI: So the first issue we had with it is the tree 111 00:06:01,956 --> 00:06:06,058 had fallen onto Hadrian's Wall itself, and so we needed to do 112 00:06:06,158 --> 00:06:10,120 what we could to preserve the UNESCO World Heritage Site. That 113 00:06:10,581 --> 00:06:12,922 meant we were quite limited in our options. That meant we 114 00:06:12,962 --> 00:06:15,683 needed to lift it off the Wall. So that meant we were going to 115 00:06:15,683 --> 00:06:16,684 have to get a crane in. 116 00:06:17,044 --> 00:06:19,465 HEATHER BIRKETT: Bringing a piece of machinery that size 117 00:06:19,666 --> 00:06:21,187 into the gap was a first. 118 00:06:21,447 --> 00:06:23,508 LUKE STRASZEWSKI: We are quite fortunate in that the tree was 119 00:06:23,569 --> 00:06:27,952 used as a filming location for Robin Hood and a road was put in 120 00:06:28,172 --> 00:06:31,555 that meant that we could get it quite close. But it was very 121 00:06:31,655 --> 00:06:36,379 tricky. Sections of the tree had to be removed bit by bit and 122 00:06:36,379 --> 00:06:39,101 they had to be held back as well to make sure that they didn't 123 00:06:39,201 --> 00:06:40,622 roll or fall in any way. 124 00:06:41,543 --> 00:06:45,907 We used the crane to lift it out and then we moved all of that 125 00:06:45,987 --> 00:06:49,690 wood onto a trailer and that was taken away to another location. 126 00:06:50,626 --> 00:06:54,287 It was quite a challenge. We had the world's media sat on the 127 00:06:54,307 --> 00:06:57,768 little hill to the south of us. So not only were we doing 128 00:06:57,808 --> 00:07:00,649 something totally unprecedented, we'd never done before, but we 129 00:07:00,689 --> 00:07:03,150 had all the cameras pointing at us while we were doing it. So 130 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:06,351 that was a bit of a tense few hours. 131 00:07:07,811 --> 00:07:10,312 HEATHER BIRKETT: On Friday the 13th of October, the tree was 132 00:07:10,372 --> 00:07:14,993 carefully lifted off Hadrian's Wall and covertly transported to 133 00:07:14,993 --> 00:07:19,590 a top secret location within the National Trust. But as a 134 00:07:19,630 --> 00:07:23,332 sycamore is part of the Acer family, the team needed to act 135 00:07:23,412 --> 00:07:23,793 quickly. 136 00:07:24,413 --> 00:07:27,435 The clock was ticking the moment it was felled, as the sugars 137 00:07:27,495 --> 00:07:31,617 within the wood could quickly lead to fungi and decay. To 138 00:07:31,657 --> 00:07:35,139 preserve it as best as possible, the tree was put under the care 139 00:07:35,139 --> 00:07:38,561 of a specialist team until a decision could be made on its 140 00:07:38,641 --> 00:07:39,061 future. 141 00:07:44,024 --> 00:07:48,106 I can see some items left at the base of the tree. Some flowers. 142 00:07:48,586 --> 00:07:49,587 Homemade cross? 143 00:07:50,027 --> 00:07:52,008 LUKE STRASZEWSKI: A lot of people have got a real 144 00:07:52,048 --> 00:07:54,890 connection with Sycamore Gap. It's been a part of the local 145 00:07:54,930 --> 00:07:58,912 community. People had proposals here. Everyone comes out here 146 00:07:58,952 --> 00:08:02,974 for a picnic. People have left memorials and mementos to loved 147 00:08:03,034 --> 00:08:06,876 ones who've passed away here And Sycamore Gap is just a part of 148 00:08:06,896 --> 00:08:08,337 their lives.. 149 00:08:08,337 --> 00:08:11,659 ANDREW POAD: Having worked with it over these last 30 years, I 150 00:08:11,679 --> 00:08:15,121 definitely saw how important it was to people, but I think I 151 00:08:15,141 --> 00:08:16,902 hadn't appreciated the reach of that. 152 00:08:19,794 --> 00:08:22,215 JUDITH WARD: It's been there all my life. You look in the gap. Oh 153 00:08:22,215 --> 00:08:24,495 there's a tree. Look at all them people standing around the tree. 154 00:08:25,035 --> 00:08:27,276 Look at them all come to see it, take the pictures, get their 155 00:08:27,336 --> 00:08:27,956 selfies. 156 00:08:29,317 --> 00:08:33,018 My name is Judith Ward and I am one of the workers and front of 157 00:08:33,018 --> 00:08:36,619 house supervisor at the Twice Brewed Inn. The pub itself is 158 00:08:36,659 --> 00:08:39,880 situated right on the Roman Wall alongside one of the largest 159 00:08:40,060 --> 00:08:41,820 tourist destinations in England. 160 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,302 And then that morning my husband rang me and said the tree's down 161 00:08:47,422 --> 00:08:50,231 and I went what do you mean? He says, the tree's down. 162 00:08:50,971 --> 00:08:56,415 I went, no. So I jumped back in my car and I could see the cut 163 00:08:57,015 --> 00:09:02,099 end of the tree and I stopped the car and I took a picture and 164 00:09:02,099 --> 00:09:05,321 I put it in our group chat and then the picture started coming 165 00:09:05,321 --> 00:09:09,404 in online and it's just senseless. It stood there 166 00:09:10,084 --> 00:09:12,326 through the test of time. 167 00:09:12,946 --> 00:09:16,269 It stood through many a storm, the harshest of weather 168 00:09:16,309 --> 00:09:22,584 conditions and... My brother proposed there and it just seems 169 00:09:22,844 --> 00:09:27,067 unfathomable. It's just altered the landscape forever. 170 00:09:29,989 --> 00:09:31,910 HEATHER BIRKETT: The global response to the felling of the 171 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:35,792 tree has been heartfelt and touching. And in the days 172 00:09:35,872 --> 00:09:39,595 following its fall, the tributes and messages came flooding in. 173 00:09:41,256 --> 00:09:44,338 MARK ROBINSON: The sycamore of Sycamore Gap, more than just a 174 00:09:44,358 --> 00:09:48,792 tree. It's a part of our identity, a symbol of pride and 175 00:09:48,792 --> 00:09:52,136 belonging for the North East. From badges on school uniforms 176 00:09:52,156 --> 00:09:55,037 to the backs of joiner's vans, it's a part of our everyday 177 00:09:55,097 --> 00:09:57,258 life, whether we visit it or not. 178 00:09:58,538 --> 00:10:01,740 A place of deep personal connection, of landmarks in our 179 00:10:01,780 --> 00:10:06,121 lives, of romantic proposals and poignant farewells, of memories 180 00:10:06,422 --> 00:10:09,803 and sandwiches shared with those we love, or of solitude and 181 00:10:09,803 --> 00:10:14,565 reflection, of peace, recovery and hope. For some, its loss 182 00:10:14,645 --> 00:10:18,987 lays bare the vulnerability of nature itself. My name is Mark 183 00:10:19,007 --> 00:10:19,447 Robinson. 184 00:10:19,831 --> 00:10:23,012 And I am an Experiences and Partnerships Curator for the 185 00:10:23,032 --> 00:10:28,053 National Trust based up in the North East. I was asked to 186 00:10:28,934 --> 00:10:33,615 review and collate the responses that were coming in from the 187 00:10:33,655 --> 00:10:37,996 public, people's responses on social media, but in particular 188 00:10:38,336 --> 00:10:41,657 the responses that people had shared in the memory room in the 189 00:10:41,697 --> 00:10:42,637 exhibition at The Sill. 190 00:10:43,578 --> 00:10:48,119 The memory room was a kind of a pop-up, impromptu place for 191 00:10:48,219 --> 00:10:51,801 people. To share their memories of the tree, it felt important 192 00:10:51,921 --> 00:10:56,064 to find a way to somehow capture that. Some people wrote long 193 00:10:56,165 --> 00:10:59,967 stories, some people wrote poems, some people drew 194 00:11:00,027 --> 00:11:00,888 pictures. 195 00:11:01,809 --> 00:11:05,431 I think the thing that struck me the most was, particularly from 196 00:11:05,952 --> 00:11:11,456 school children, that there was a huge amount of hope. There was 197 00:11:11,436 --> 00:11:14,878 a lot of references to this tree will come again or we will not 198 00:11:14,938 --> 00:11:18,172 forget you. It was a really humbling experience really to 199 00:11:18,212 --> 00:11:22,173 spend the day reading all of the responses but also to kind of 200 00:11:22,433 --> 00:11:24,773 remind yourself of just how important places can be. 201 00:11:27,714 --> 00:11:29,695 HEATHER BIRKETT: And while Mark and his team were sifting 202 00:11:29,755 --> 00:11:32,556 through the responses from the public, the staff at the 203 00:11:32,576 --> 00:11:35,276 National Trust Plant Conservation Centre were working 204 00:11:35,316 --> 00:11:36,117 against the clock. 205 00:11:37,217 --> 00:11:39,498 CHRIS TRIMMER: Once material has been cut off the tree, it is 206 00:11:39,518 --> 00:11:43,559 dying. So we need to get in there as soon as possible to do 207 00:11:43,599 --> 00:11:43,999 our work. 208 00:11:45,179 --> 00:11:49,523 I'm Chris Trimmer, I'm the Plant Conservation Centre Manager and 209 00:11:49,863 --> 00:11:52,785 I look after all the rare and unusual plants in the National 210 00:11:52,805 --> 00:11:56,448 Trust. I actually found out that the tree had been cut down from 211 00:11:56,728 --> 00:12:01,052 our national press team. I had a phone call and essentially we 212 00:12:01,172 --> 00:12:03,994 just started all the prep work behind the scenes. 213 00:12:05,175 --> 00:12:08,778 To move plant material we had to issue what's called a plant 214 00:12:08,798 --> 00:12:12,461 passport, did that straight away. One of our gardens 215 00:12:12,501 --> 00:12:16,647 consultants were actually on site within sort of day, day and 216 00:12:16,647 --> 00:12:21,029 a half afterwards. And they sent material down to us through the 217 00:12:21,029 --> 00:12:24,610 post they sent first class and it arrived here nine o'clock on 218 00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:26,970 Saturday morning. 219 00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:29,471 We asked for seed which is one of the easiest methods of 220 00:12:29,471 --> 00:12:34,592 propagation but also cuttings doing grafting budding from the 221 00:12:34,592 --> 00:12:38,133 same sort of material. So by Saturday five o'clock everything 222 00:12:38,153 --> 00:12:42,455 was propagated and it's all gone quite well so far. 223 00:12:42,455 --> 00:12:47,658 We've got 21 cuttings, we've got five budded trees, we've got 15 224 00:12:47,798 --> 00:12:52,582 grafted trees. And we've sown four seed trays so far of seeds. 225 00:12:53,002 --> 00:12:57,345 But we don't know what's going to happen. But the stump that's 226 00:12:57,365 --> 00:13:01,148 been left behind will probably grow as a multi stem tree. But 227 00:13:01,148 --> 00:13:04,351 it'll never look the same as it did. And it'll be another two, 228 00:13:04,471 --> 00:13:05,632 three hundred years before it looks good. 229 00:13:07,633 --> 00:13:10,151 HEATHER BIRKETT: And then all their efforts paid off. They 230 00:13:10,211 --> 00:13:14,614 successfully propagated cuttings and cultivated seeds, creating a 231 00:13:14,654 --> 00:13:19,137 whole new generation of Sycamore Gap trees. The first of these 232 00:13:19,497 --> 00:13:22,800 made a special journey to London in May, where it was put on 233 00:13:22,820 --> 00:13:26,462 display for all to see in the National Trust Garden at the 234 00:13:26,522 --> 00:13:27,563 Chelsea Flower Show. 235 00:13:28,784 --> 00:13:31,185 The young seedling was placed into the Garden by 236 00:13:31,305 --> 00:13:34,828 seven-year-old Charlotte and Dame Judi Dench, who 237 00:13:34,868 --> 00:13:38,550 affectionately named it Antoninus, after Emperor 238 00:13:38,670 --> 00:13:42,853 Hadrian's adopted son, inspired by the location of the Sycamore 239 00:13:42,893 --> 00:13:43,454 Gap tree. 240 00:13:44,655 --> 00:13:48,017 Charlotte and her parents, Andy and Louise, travelled down from 241 00:13:48,057 --> 00:13:49,478 their home in Northumberland. 242 00:13:51,179 --> 00:13:53,321 LOUISE: Well, I grew up in Hayden Bridge. Which is, what, 243 00:13:53,361 --> 00:13:57,324 maybe five miles from the gap. When we found out the day it 244 00:13:57,384 --> 00:13:59,645 happened, we were both at work and Charlotte was at school, and 245 00:13:59,645 --> 00:14:04,088 that night went for a drive along just to see if it was 246 00:14:04,168 --> 00:14:04,469 true. 247 00:14:04,609 --> 00:14:08,359 And it was just so strange not seeing that tree there. It was 248 00:14:08,379 --> 00:14:10,821 quite emotional. Wasn't it, when you find out and you think, 249 00:14:10,821 --> 00:14:13,523 that's just a tree. Why am I getting upset over a tree? But 250 00:14:14,184 --> 00:14:17,847 it's strange how a tree up in Northumberland is all over the 251 00:14:17,867 --> 00:14:20,829 world. It's made such an impact on everyone. 252 00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:23,892 I just remember Charlotte was saying to me one day, oh, I've 253 00:14:23,892 --> 00:14:26,694 got to do this with the school, write a poem about Sycamore Gap. 254 00:14:27,074 --> 00:14:29,696 HEATHER BIRKETT: A competition was set up, inviting pupils from 255 00:14:29,757 --> 00:14:33,259 Henshaw Primary School, the closest school to Sycamore Gap, 256 00:14:33,780 --> 00:14:37,122 in which pupils were invited to draw a picture of the tree and 257 00:14:37,142 --> 00:14:40,384 write a short... Poem about what it meant to them and it was 258 00:14:40,444 --> 00:14:41,805 Charlotte's poem which won. 259 00:14:42,365 --> 00:14:44,906 CHARLOTTE: I went to see Hadrian's Wall and I saw a tree. 260 00:14:45,306 --> 00:14:49,348 It was a mindful tree. It was a mindful famous tree. It was a 261 00:14:49,388 --> 00:14:53,570 mindful famous historical tree. It was a mindful famous 262 00:14:53,610 --> 00:14:57,612 historical magnificent tree. It was a mindful, famous, 263 00:14:57,852 --> 00:15:02,014 historical, magnificent, welcoming tree. I really hope 264 00:15:02,034 --> 00:15:07,077 Sycamore Gap goes back. When I go and see the tree, it brings 265 00:15:07,137 --> 00:15:08,458 back lots of memories. 266 00:15:09,959 --> 00:15:12,380 HEATHER BIRKETT: After the show, the seedling was returned to the 267 00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:16,082 Plant Conservation Centre, where it continues to grow alongside 268 00:15:16,102 --> 00:15:20,165 its siblings until they are ready for planting. The first 269 00:15:20,245 --> 00:15:23,587 successful sapling has been gifted to His Royal Highness The 270 00:15:23,627 --> 00:15:27,590 King. In honour of Celebration Day, a day dedicated to 271 00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:31,673 remembering those no longer with us. This special tree will be 272 00:15:31,713 --> 00:15:35,176 planted in Windsor Great Park for all visitors to enjoy. 273 00:15:41,121 --> 00:15:44,664 It's now the beginning of July, ten months after the felling, 274 00:15:45,265 --> 00:15:48,547 and hopes of any regrowth at the stump are starting to fade. 275 00:15:49,768 --> 00:15:52,190 But at various sites in Northumberland, the first 276 00:15:52,290 --> 00:15:56,452 artworks, are about to go on display. These are five prints 277 00:15:56,532 --> 00:16:00,273 by Shona Branigan, who is known for her evocative tree prints. 278 00:16:00,933 --> 00:16:02,954 The prints have been commissioned by the National 279 00:16:02,994 --> 00:16:07,715 Trust as a creative response to the public's suggestions. This 280 00:16:07,775 --> 00:16:11,896 collection, lovingly titled Heartwood, is designed to 281 00:16:11,936 --> 00:16:15,097 reflect the intricate shape and essence of the tree trunk. 282 00:16:16,458 --> 00:16:19,258 The five prints will be showcased together at the 283 00:16:19,278 --> 00:16:23,180 Queen's Hall Hexham and then at the The Baltic Art Gallery in 284 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:23,760 Newcastle. 285 00:16:28,404 --> 00:16:32,567 Then, at the end of July, I get a call from Andrew Poad, General 286 00:16:32,587 --> 00:16:35,949 Manager at Hadrian's Wall, with the news that we have all been 287 00:16:36,029 --> 00:16:36,650 hoping for. 288 00:16:37,130 --> 00:16:39,592 ANDREW POAD: We've just heard from our colleagues at the 289 00:16:39,612 --> 00:16:42,894 National Park that the stumps actually started regrowing, 290 00:16:43,275 --> 00:16:44,335 which is brilliant news. 291 00:16:44,676 --> 00:16:46,337 HEATHER BIRKETT: Oh, that's fantastic news, Andrew. 292 00:16:46,537 --> 00:16:49,039 ANDREW POAD: Yeah, it was a real pleasant surprise to get the 293 00:16:49,059 --> 00:16:52,401 call. The really nice story is the chap who found it is the 294 00:16:52,502 --> 00:16:56,045 first person that was on site that confirmed that the tree had 295 00:16:56,065 --> 00:16:59,247 actually been felled. He's the National Trail Ranger for 296 00:16:59,287 --> 00:17:03,291 Hadrian's Wall. So it's really nice that it's him that's the 297 00:17:03,371 --> 00:17:06,253 one that's spotted the regrowth first. A little bit of 298 00:17:06,273 --> 00:17:07,114 serendipity there. 299 00:17:07,794 --> 00:17:12,318 So the last time I was there, we got up to 12 new shoots. They're 300 00:17:12,318 --> 00:17:15,461 only a few centimetres tall and a few centimetres across with 301 00:17:16,081 --> 00:17:19,095 two or three leaves on each shoot. And they're a lovely 302 00:17:19,315 --> 00:17:22,577 rusty red colour at the moment. And that's great. I mean, this 303 00:17:22,617 --> 00:17:26,558 is nature bouncing back. This is how it responds. And whether all 304 00:17:26,558 --> 00:17:29,500 the shoots survive or not remains to be seen. 305 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,181 I'm delighted the tree's regrowing, although it'll never 306 00:17:33,241 --> 00:17:35,922 look the same as the original tree. It's the best possible 307 00:17:35,982 --> 00:17:40,044 outcome we could get. So it's really nice to share, when I was 308 00:17:40,084 --> 00:17:43,325 on site, sharing that with other people. What we were saying to a 309 00:17:43,325 --> 00:17:45,286 lot of them who had children with them is that they're going 310 00:17:45,286 --> 00:17:50,509 to need to come back in... 10, 20 years time and see the 311 00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:52,471 results of what they've just witnessed. 312 00:17:54,532 --> 00:17:57,315 HEATHER BIRKETT: As encouraging signs of regrowth emerge at the 313 00:17:57,355 --> 00:18:02,019 stump, plans are also underway for the stored wood. After a 314 00:18:02,059 --> 00:18:05,922 year of careful seasoning, the largest section has been gifted 315 00:18:06,042 --> 00:18:10,826 to the Northumberland National Park Authority. CEO Tony Gates 316 00:18:11,206 --> 00:18:11,927 tells us more. 317 00:18:13,828 --> 00:18:16,731 TONY GATES: The National Park Authority, we own and run the... 318 00:18:17,111 --> 00:18:19,372 Sill National Landscape Discovery Centre on Hadrian's 319 00:18:19,432 --> 00:18:19,652 Wall. 320 00:18:20,272 --> 00:18:23,934 It's the closest visitor centre to the site of Sycamore Gap. We 321 00:18:24,014 --> 00:18:28,095 get about 125,000 visitors a year through the centre and it 322 00:18:28,095 --> 00:18:31,457 would have been one of the most popular starting points for 323 00:18:31,517 --> 00:18:35,218 people who wanted to walk to see the Sycamore Gap tree. 324 00:18:35,238 --> 00:18:38,080 We gathered all the feedback that people sent to us following 325 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,761 the felling of the tree and one of the things that came through 326 00:18:40,781 --> 00:18:44,822 is that people wanted to see some type of long-term legacy 327 00:18:44,922 --> 00:18:48,704 for the tree in the Sill, In the visitor centre and so we've 328 00:18:48,724 --> 00:18:51,304 negotiated with the National Trust and they've kindly agreed 329 00:18:51,304 --> 00:18:55,565 to gift us the largest remaining intact section of the Sycamore 330 00:18:55,605 --> 00:18:59,767 Gap tree and the idea is that we use that to create a lasting 331 00:18:59,787 --> 00:19:03,628 legacy for Sycamore Gap that people can visit in the Sill 332 00:19:03,688 --> 00:19:06,248 National Landscape Centre and it means that people who maybe 333 00:19:06,888 --> 00:19:11,150 physically can't get as far out as the site itself can still 334 00:19:11,710 --> 00:19:13,230 have some contact with the tree. 335 00:19:14,991 --> 00:19:17,771 HEATHER BIRKETT: Earlier in the year a call went out for artists 336 00:19:17,811 --> 00:19:21,012 to design an exhibition that would incorporate the gifted 337 00:19:21,092 --> 00:19:25,614 tree section. This exhibition is set to open at the Sill in the 338 00:19:25,634 --> 00:19:29,535 Northumberland National Park Discovery Centre one year after 339 00:19:29,535 --> 00:19:33,736 the felling. The commissioned artists are Charlie Winnie, Nick 340 00:19:33,856 --> 00:19:35,597 Greenall and Matt Sowerby. 341 00:19:39,538 --> 00:19:42,219 It's a beautiful sunny day in August and I've come to a Barn 342 00:19:42,239 --> 00:19:45,784 in rural Cumbria. Nestled between the majestic fells of 343 00:19:45,764 --> 00:19:49,051 the Lake District and the open waters of Morecambe Bay, it's a 344 00:19:49,071 --> 00:19:53,059 really special corner of Cumbria that feels incredibly tucked 345 00:19:53,099 --> 00:19:53,400 away. 346 00:19:55,132 --> 00:19:58,855 The Barn is home to an artist's studio where the artists 347 00:19:58,915 --> 00:20:01,237 specialise in art made from wood. 348 00:20:04,780 --> 00:20:07,742 We're inside the studio now and you might be able to hear a 349 00:20:07,762 --> 00:20:10,765 little bit of action in the background, some sawing and 350 00:20:10,785 --> 00:20:14,207 drilling, but I'm sat here with two of the artists involved. 351 00:20:14,368 --> 00:20:17,190 NICK GREENALL: Good afternoon, my name's Nick Greenall and this 352 00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:20,872 is Charlie Winnie and jointly we're both directors of a 353 00:20:20,953 --> 00:20:23,554 community interest company called Creative Communities and 354 00:20:23,534 --> 00:20:27,315 we do kind of out there art projects with members of the 355 00:20:27,315 --> 00:20:30,877 community who might not normally get the opportunity to do that 356 00:20:30,937 --> 00:20:31,417 kind of thing. 357 00:20:32,017 --> 00:20:34,759 On this particular project, the Sycamore Gap project, we're 358 00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:38,080 working with a poet called Matt Sowerby. So we've got poetry, 359 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,742 we've got Charlie Winnie who's an amazing steam woodbender. 360 00:20:43,323 --> 00:20:45,243 HEATHER BIRKETT: We come to you Charlie, I wondered if you could 361 00:20:45,283 --> 00:20:46,484 tell us a bit about your work. 362 00:20:46,956 --> 00:20:48,497 CHARLIE WHINNEY: The reason you can see all these strange, 363 00:20:48,697 --> 00:20:53,159 twizzly, curly shapes around you is because my sketchbook is full 364 00:20:53,199 --> 00:20:57,641 of these shapes and part of the interest and the challenge for 365 00:20:57,661 --> 00:21:02,923 me is to take normal wood from a tree outside and use as little 366 00:21:03,043 --> 00:21:06,725 energy as possible and still achieve beautiful results. 367 00:21:07,425 --> 00:21:09,646 HEATHER BIRKETT: So can I ask, have you seen the tree? 368 00:21:10,527 --> 00:21:14,289 NICK GREENALL: We have. Charlie was keen to study the material 369 00:21:14,289 --> 00:21:16,811 that he'd be working with, and there was a bit of mystery about 370 00:21:16,831 --> 00:21:20,215 where the tree actually might be. It may be in Devon, it may 371 00:21:20,235 --> 00:21:24,218 be in Berwick-upon-Tweed. And then they took us, and then the 372 00:21:24,298 --> 00:21:27,121 tree out of the darkness was revealed. 373 00:21:27,741 --> 00:21:30,084 CHARLIE WHINNEY: When I saw it, I'd already met, I don't know, 374 00:21:30,144 --> 00:21:34,448 like 100 people who had tears when it came down. And I think 375 00:21:34,468 --> 00:21:38,391 looking at the bark of the tree and all the interesting swirls 376 00:21:38,391 --> 00:21:41,529 and patterns... Having already studied loads of photographs of 377 00:21:41,529 --> 00:21:44,870 the living tree, and it was like, oh my God, it's you. It's 378 00:21:44,890 --> 00:21:46,950 the same one. It was a strange feeling. 379 00:21:47,410 --> 00:21:50,051 NICK GREENALL: Because I'd seen the tree in life in this dip on 380 00:21:50,111 --> 00:21:53,592 Hadrian's Wall. It was just very aesthetic. It was the right tree 381 00:21:53,612 --> 00:21:57,393 in the right place. And then seeing it cut up as a log, there 382 00:21:57,413 --> 00:22:00,754 was definitely a disconnect between seeing a log of wood and 383 00:22:00,774 --> 00:22:02,775 this formerly beautiful tree in life. 384 00:22:02,935 --> 00:22:04,515 HEATHER BIRKETT: So Charlie, what happens next? 385 00:22:04,775 --> 00:22:07,892 CHARLIE WHINNEY: There were two stages to this project. You've 386 00:22:07,932 --> 00:22:11,574 come to us now about five weeks before the first stage is going 387 00:22:11,574 --> 00:22:15,075 to be complete. It's going to be the one year on exhibition at 388 00:22:15,055 --> 00:22:19,577 the Sill. And I'm making five giant canvases that are going to 389 00:22:19,557 --> 00:22:22,978 go on the Wall. They're going to depict the tree wrapping around 390 00:22:22,978 --> 00:22:24,559 the gallery, kind of life size. 391 00:22:25,179 --> 00:22:28,120 And in the middle of the gallery will be our log, which the 392 00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:29,521 National Trust have currently given us. 393 00:22:30,201 --> 00:22:32,942 NICK GREENALL: So there'll be an opportunity for people to make 394 00:22:33,022 --> 00:22:36,043 pledges. And they may be pledges of what they're going to do for 395 00:22:36,123 --> 00:22:39,685 nature. And it's these pledges that will be gathered and they 396 00:22:39,705 --> 00:22:42,625 will form part of the final piece that Charlie is going to 397 00:22:42,645 --> 00:22:42,946 make. 398 00:22:43,366 --> 00:22:45,846 HEATHER BIRKETT: So as a phase one that's an amazing way to 399 00:22:45,886 --> 00:22:49,667 capture people's feelings and connection with the tree. What 400 00:22:49,707 --> 00:22:51,468 happens to all those pledges afterwards? 401 00:22:51,548 --> 00:22:54,008 CHARLIE WHINNEY: I'll show you so in my hands here I've got one 402 00:22:54,008 --> 00:22:56,949 of our samples from the final sculpture so these are just 403 00:22:57,089 --> 00:22:57,529 ideas. 404 00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:01,551 HEATHER BIRKETT: I can see some twisted wood almost in a spiral 405 00:23:02,011 --> 00:23:06,012 with a lovely grain on it and then engraved onto the flat side 406 00:23:06,032 --> 00:23:10,541 of the twist some words. I will get chickens who will eat our 407 00:23:10,601 --> 00:23:11,121 scraps. 408 00:23:12,001 --> 00:23:15,142 At the exhibition at the Sill, visitors will see a section of 409 00:23:15,122 --> 00:23:18,443 the felled Sycamore Gap tree, along with all the artwork 410 00:23:18,483 --> 00:23:22,305 surrounding it. Charlie's also designed seating for the show, 411 00:23:22,565 --> 00:23:26,806 so visitors can sit, reflect and immerse in the exhibition. 412 00:23:27,926 --> 00:23:30,267 NICK GREENALL: So we're going to go next door now, and we've been 413 00:23:30,387 --> 00:23:33,468 steaming some wood, so the process of steam woodbending is 414 00:23:33,528 --> 00:23:37,613 we heat the wood in a steam chamber and all the lignin and 415 00:23:37,673 --> 00:23:40,574 cellulose in the wood becomes malleable and then you're able 416 00:23:40,574 --> 00:23:43,395 to bend it. It's quite a marvellous thing to see so let's 417 00:23:43,395 --> 00:23:43,935 go and have a look. 418 00:23:44,275 --> 00:23:45,055 HEATHER BIRKETT: Sounds like magic. 419 00:23:46,856 --> 00:23:49,316 CHARLIE WHINNEY: So this metal thing here is a compression 420 00:23:49,356 --> 00:23:52,017 strap that I'm going to put on the outside of the wood. It's 421 00:23:52,037 --> 00:23:54,658 got a compression strap so it's going to literally squash all 422 00:23:54,658 --> 00:23:58,659 the fibres as we bend around. The wood needs to be about 100 423 00:23:58,699 --> 00:24:01,120 degrees. If it isn't then it'll break. 424 00:24:03,624 --> 00:24:06,926 So this is a piece of ash that I'm putting in here. So I'm 425 00:24:06,926 --> 00:24:11,629 going to put it into the compression strap, and I'm going 426 00:24:11,629 --> 00:24:16,011 to see how many times I can bend this piece of ash around here. 427 00:24:16,011 --> 00:24:22,295 I'm going to go for number four. There we go, there's our thing. 428 00:24:22,635 --> 00:24:24,136 HEATHER BIRKETT: And then it was my turn to have a go. 429 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,161 CHARLIE WHINNEY: Do you see all the sculptures over there? Yes. 430 00:24:27,301 --> 00:24:29,642 You're making one of them. Okay. Can you say they all look 431 00:24:29,642 --> 00:24:32,523 completely different? Yes. So there's no rules? Okay. You can 432 00:24:32,523 --> 00:24:32,984 do what you want. 433 00:24:34,724 --> 00:24:38,366 HEATHER BIRKETT: Charlie has handed me five strands of wood 434 00:24:38,426 --> 00:24:40,047 that we're going to wrap around here. 435 00:24:41,607 --> 00:24:41,748 CHARLIE WHINNEY: Yeah. 436 00:24:42,468 --> 00:24:43,328 HEATHER BIRKETT: Oh, it's not easy. 437 00:24:44,689 --> 00:24:45,749 CHARLIE WHINNEY: That's perfect. There you go. 438 00:24:45,749 --> 00:24:47,090 HEATHER BIRKETT: Like a granny knot in wood. 439 00:24:49,462 --> 00:24:52,123 Thank you so much for showing me your workshop, Charlie, and to 440 00:24:52,303 --> 00:24:55,104 show us how this wood is bent. And it really gives us an 441 00:24:55,124 --> 00:24:59,266 insight into the kind of methods and skills involved in the work 442 00:24:59,306 --> 00:25:02,067 that you're going to be doing for the Sycamore Gap project. 443 00:25:06,009 --> 00:25:09,891 Stage one of the exhibition is set to run at the Sill until the 444 00:25:09,951 --> 00:25:13,472 end of October, ahead of the permanent exhibition in spring 445 00:25:13,492 --> 00:25:19,495 2025. Meanwhile, the saplings, which are around five feet tall, 446 00:25:20,056 --> 00:25:23,558 are thriving under the expert care of the Plant Conservation 447 00:25:23,638 --> 00:25:24,018 Centre. 448 00:25:24,739 --> 00:25:28,542 To Mark the one-year-on anniversary, 49 of the new 449 00:25:28,642 --> 00:25:31,424 Sycamore Gap trees will be available for the public to 450 00:25:31,464 --> 00:25:35,687 request through the Trees of Hope campaign, while a handful 451 00:25:35,687 --> 00:25:39,490 of the others have or are in the process of being allocated to 452 00:25:39,530 --> 00:25:43,132 amazing projects around the country. Please head to our 453 00:25:43,192 --> 00:25:45,434 episode show notes for more details. 454 00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:50,671 The Sycamore Gap tree may be gone, but its legacy lives on in 455 00:25:50,671 --> 00:25:53,212 a story that is far from over. 456 00:26:06,217 --> 00:26:09,097 Thank you for listening to the National Trust Podcast. If 457 00:26:09,158 --> 00:26:12,420 you've liked what you've heard, please make sure to subscribe on 458 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,444 your favourite podcast app or visit us at 459 00:26:15,905 --> 00:26:24,075 www.nationaltrust.org.uk/ podcasts. Until next time, from 460 00:26:24,135 --> 00:26:25,898 me, Heather Burkett, goodbye.