00:00:09:21 - 00:00:28:24
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to this podcast from the Child Protection in Sport Unit. We're part of the NSPCC and funded by UK sports councils. Our work supports organizations to safeguard all children taking part in sport.

00:00:29:01 - 00:00:57:11
Liza
Hi, my name is Liza where I want to see any consultants at the CPSU. You may have been aware that we've been champion safeguarding online in sports for many years and like most aspects of life, social media is an integral part of sport and physical activity. But we should never forget our safeguards in responsibilities, and we must take time to think through carefully the different types of risks that children may be exposed to in a virtual sport setting.

00:00:57:13 - 00:01:20:02
Liza
The CPSU are so pleased to have our NSPCC colleagues who are leading the way in online safety. I would like to introduce Laura Randall and Helen Westerman. Thank you to the both of you for joining us today for the Online Safety Podcast. And we've got a series of questions that have been put forward from our national governing bodies and active partnership lead officers around this subject matter.

00:01:20:04 - 00:01:42:18
Helen
Thanks, Liza, and I'll be facilitating the discussions today. And as Lisa said, we hope we're going to be addressing some of the issues that you've raised with the CPSU, Laura. And in the sport sector, we've seen an increase in allegations of non-contact sexual abuse committed by young people to an on to another young person, and that's mainly in the form of young people creating indecent images of their peers whilst in changing rooms.

00:01:42:18 - 00:01:53:22
Helen
What advice would you give to clubs and parents to help them talk with young people about this and get young people to understand that this is abuse and could result in statutory involvement.

00:01:54:00 - 00:02:11:13
Laura
So when you hear about situations like this, and unfortunately we do hear it quite a lot, it highlights how important is it that children understand the long lasting impact that the sharing of images has. As soon as an image is shared within a peer group, control of that image is lost. So I don't know where the image is gone.

00:02:11:13 - 00:02:33:07
Laura
Who has it? Has it made it onto a social platform? Has my family seen it? Has the person around the shops seen this? Seen it? It's a fear that becomes forever present, and it really leads to a long lasting impact on that child's wellbeing and their child's mental health. And it's something that can actually last into adulthood. So images can be removed, but you don't know if that image might reappear again.

00:02:33:07 - 00:02:48:10
Laura
You don't know who's got it in their own personal folders that they can upload it again. So again, you might think that yes, the image has been taken down, but there's always that nagging feeling at the back of the head that actually would it pop up again. One thing that we need to make children aware of is actually there's other consequences besides the image and where it's gone.

00:02:48:10 - 00:03:07:14
Laura
It's it's the taking of the image is actually illegal. To take an image, to possess an image to share it is child sex abuse material. And regardless of the age of the person who took that picture, whether they're 13, 15, 19, 20, it is illegal. So children can actually be investigated by police for possessing an image that is illegal.

00:03:07:20 - 00:03:35:15
Laura
Now, police do not want to criminalize young people, but they do have to take a risk report serious because you don't know if an image has been taken, through coercion, through manipulation. You don't know that you speak to the child and work out the situation and assess, you know, what are the needs of that child. So if this is reported to police, they will have a duty to make sure that child is okay and that the safeguarding measures are in place in this scenario, in a changing room, what might be a prank can actually quickly escalate into something that of the children or parents or the clubs can control.

00:03:35:15 - 00:03:56:03
Laura
So it's really important that we have to, educate both children, parents, clubs, coaches about the dangers of pranks, of sharing images consensually or in any other method that what are the consequences, both for the person in the in the image and the person taking the image? And what they can do support both. Both sets of children.

00:03:56:03 - 00:04:12:21
Laura
And we've got advice on our NSPCC website. We've got advice on our e-learning website. And also you've got the help one on Childline, which the child can seek support on through Childline. And if clubs or coaches or adults want to go and speak to the helpline, they'll be able to talk through the processes and the concerns and advise on the best way to support a child through this.

00:04:12:23 - 00:04:23:17
Helen
That's that's a great response. Thank you Laura. Liza, now can you tell us about the challenges that that children and young people who are professional sports people are facing when it comes to having and keeping a public profile?

00:04:23:19 - 00:04:46:03
Liza
Yeah. So I think for young people who are talented athlete or professional athlete, have a lot of pressure around making sure that they've got lots of followers on social media and that they've got a big profile and able to promote themselves, but as a brand, but also promote their sport as well, because for them that could mean to possible sponsorship.

00:04:46:05 - 00:05:13:18
Liza
But I also think it's things like young people being educated around this information is going to be potentially around forever. If they've said something on a social media post, somebody's five years down the line might come back and raise something that somebody said. So if it was kind of racist or it was a home, a phobia, you know, anything that's derogatory towards people could come back and have an impact again on their professional career, their sponsorship deals as well, in the future.

00:05:13:20 - 00:05:38:13
Liza
But for me, those young people are positive role models as well. So it's about how they portray themselves on a social media platform and making sure that they are showing their good side, their positive side, and that they are demonstrating how to be good citizens and, you know, good professional sport people, but also thinking about, you know, those young people have the same safeguarding risks as any of the child's as well out there.

00:05:38:13 - 00:06:08:00
Liza
So, you know, they are also at risk of online grooming, but also for professional athletes, there's the added risk around financial abuse as well. And people thinking that those young people will be in an X amount of money through sponsorship deals or if they're, you know, they're in the first team at Liverpool, for example, football club, then they will have money that we can potentially exploit them and take advantage of their financial situation as well.

00:06:08:02 - 00:06:18:22
Helen
Gosh, there's lots of issues there. So, Laura, what advice can you offer aspiring sport stars who are trying to generate follows on social media? What should be taught? What should we be talking to them about?

00:06:18:24 - 00:06:43:20
Laura
So I think, Liz, I'm at a really good point there in that when you're posting or commenting on social media, are you happy that in five years time that content or that picture can still be seen? So it's thinking about what you're sharing and who will see it and what will the impact be? And I know with putting the responsibility on the child there, but there's a responsibility to everyone around that child to make sure that they understand the consequences of behavior and to make sure they think through the correct decision when they're posting or commenting on things I said before.

00:06:43:20 - 00:07:01:02
Laura
Who can see what your post, is it public? Is it with your family? Is it with close friends? Who is it and what is it that can be seen? And it's a scary, thing to think about. But the other angle of this is that when you're posting all these pictures as early as I said, you could be groomed, you could have someone out there saying, I can make you a star.

00:07:01:02 - 00:07:17:20
Laura
And naturally, you know, the conversation will progress. It could be a very attractive proposition for young people in that if I send another image or if I post this where I do this, I could be a star. I could be the biggest thing. And in ten years time, and there's a real risk there because children want to be successful, they want to be the best they can.

00:07:17:20 - 00:07:35:03
Laura
And if they see someone wanting to help them, then they might grasp on to that. But I have to raise another point, if I may, in that, we know in some sports that parents are actually creating the social media accounts for the children. Now, social media sites have, age ranges for a reason, and that's to make sure that children are protected and they can use their platform.

00:07:35:03 - 00:07:52:18
Laura
And when they understand, you know, what the platform is about and how to use it safely. So we're creating these accounts for the children under 13. How are they protecting their children? What are they doing to make sure that things are being shared correctly, that the child is actually speaking with people they know, not people they don't know what they might be trying to facilitate.

00:07:52:18 - 00:08:15:24
Laura
The child's career is actually causing them distress and could be causing them harm. So it's thinking twice about, how they support their children when it comes to promoting their profiles. And actually, that's also a responsibility for the clubs and the coaches to make sure that the children who are attending that their sport have the right safeguarding in place, whether it be through online social media or through, the wider community as well.

00:08:16:01 - 00:08:22:21
Helen
We've just been talking about social media. So is it okay for clubs to tag children and young people on their social media post? Laura.

00:08:22:23 - 00:08:39:11
Laura
So naturally, clubs who want to celebrate successes, support the young people and make sure that they feel that they're being championed supported. But again, it comes back to consent and it comes back to appropriateness. Have they got consent from the parent, the young person? Is it appropriate what you're tagging? What is in the background of the image?

00:08:39:11 - 00:09:00:00
Laura
Are they sharing purse information? You know, we've seen pictures where there's been post in the background giving the child's address or, you know, there's a significant skyline that can show where the child is. Is that appropriate? But then and this is a slightly, uncomfortable topic for some, is that what is actually in that picture? There are lots of sports where the child's attire is actually minimal.

00:09:00:00 - 00:09:19:13
Laura
So gymnastics, swimming, is that picture appropriate or is the pose could it be deemed sexual? And it's not something that parents or club members may want to think about. But actually, when it comes to imagery, when it comes to what can be retained later on in life, is the picture appropriate and should you be tagging it? Well, should you be saying to that child, I don't think the image is quite appropriate.

00:09:19:17 - 00:09:43:04
Laura
Let's remove that from your profile. So the club have got a responsibility to support the children in that. Another angle to to look at this when it comes to tagging of social media, if I can move it slightly to in this environment, a lot of groups, a lot of clubs are creating chat rooms or chat function, say on things like WhatsApp or Snap or Insta etcetera, where the teams are chatting about what's happening and how to.

00:09:43:06 - 00:10:02:04
Laura
But who is on that chat group? What are the ages on that chat group? So a lot of teams have mixed ages of players. So if you think about the age ranges between 15 and 20, for example, if you've got a team where you've got one member who's 15, 16, another member who's 19, that chat has to be appropriate for all sets of people on that chat group.

00:10:02:06 - 00:10:19:23
Laura
So if there's a sexual conversation or sexual image being shared and there's a 15 year old on that chat group, you are sharing illegal imagery or sex communication, regardless whether the content is adult or not. When we have these chat groups, on these forums, what content is being shared? And that's where rules and codes of conduct really come into play.

00:10:20:04 - 00:10:29:16
Laura
And it is everyone's responsibility to make sure that children are protected at any age through the use of social media, through the use of groups and, how we tag and encourage our children.

00:10:29:18 - 00:10:57:22
Helen
Wow. Thank you very much. A huge thank you to to Liza and Laura for their contributions today. Hopefully we've answered some of the questions that you've, you've posed to CPSU and a huge thank you to you for listening and for further support and information. We would encourage you to look at the CPSC website. Thanks very much.

00:10:57:24 - 00:11:10:08
Speaker 1
Thank you for listening to this Child Protection and Support Unit podcast. If you're looking for more information and resources on safeguarding children in school, please visit our website at the CPSU Moorgate, UK.