Heather 00:00:10 Hello, everybody. Today I'm with Adele Curran. She is a transformational relationship and communication coach with the business coaching couples and individuals who are craving authentic, fulfilling relationships. She believes that everyone can develop the skills they have to have the kind of love they really deserve. She herself is a divorced mom and registered nurse with multiple coaching and hypnotherapy certifications. Her approach is holistic, compassionate, really grounded in real life with tangible skills. She constantly stretches herself via her own practices of meditation, rigorous exercise, working with her own coaches, and much more. And she loves bringing what she learns to her clients when she's not doing some sort of personal growth. You can find her eating steak fruit at the French restaurant around the corner from her home in Washington, D.C., or flying to South America for another travel adventure. Welcome, Adele.

Adele 00:01:18 Thank you. Heather. Thanks so much for having me back.

Heather 00:01:22 Oh, you're very welcome. Adele and I have been colleagues for some years now. We met during the conscious uncoupling training, and that's absolutely delightful.

Heather 00:01:32 It gives us a sort of depth and trust and knowledge of each other, which allows us to talk freely. And last time we were here, we did a sort of overview of her work, and we've come back for a second go, and this time it's focused on should I stay or should I go? what a big question, Adele.

Adele 00:01:55 Oh my goodness, it's such a conundrum. It really is.

Heather 00:01:59 Yeah. How does that show up with the people that come and see you?

Adele 00:02:04 well, you know the people who come to see me in this stage. you know, one of the first things they say is they just feel so stuck. They feel confused. there's so many. They often tell me about all the good things about the person they're with, as well as all the negative things and how much they've been trying. You know, these people who come in, who are anyone who's going to actually book a session with someone like me, right? Is someone who's been trying really hard already.

Adele 00:02:36 And, you know, all the therapists they've been to and the books they've read and they've been doing this stuff for years, and still they just can't decide what to do. And so they're they come in with like a ton of frustration and stress, wanting more, but really not knowing if it's possible or if it's even like, or if they even kind of deserve it a lot of times.

Heather 00:03:00 Okay. Right. So it sounds like these are people who really take life seriously, who wants something richer and more fulfilling. And they're sort of dissatisfied with the status quo.

Adele 00:03:17 Yeah, exactly, exactly. the people who come in are the kind of people who really want to grow and evolve. They want to have, you know, happiness. And part of that is having a fulfilling and really authentic relationship. And so, you know, when they don't have that, despite all their hard work, it's like really disheartening for them.

Speaker 3 00:03:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Heather 00:03:44 Yes I can see that. And then the the pull might be quite strong if they're with a partner who isn't in the same mindset.

Adele 00:03:53 Oh, absolutely. And I see this a lot, that, you know, we're all different. And, what's mattering most to these people is, you know, like I said something along the lines of growth, evolution, maximizing their time on this planet. You know, it's like they're really these people tend to be driven, you know, and then so often they're with someone who's kind of saying, well, you know why? You know why. Rock the boat. What we have is good enough. You know, maybe things aren't spectacular, but we have been together all this time. We have children, you know, why mess things up? And, and you know both. It's not that one of those is right and wrong. Both of those viewpoints are valid. You know, we all crave stability and safety, and we also all crave growth and learning. But sometimes, you know, we're we lean more towards one or the other. And what so often happens is these people kind of get in this argument about who's right and who's wrong about that.

Adele 00:04:58 And the way I see it is, there's no right or wrong. It's just a difference.

Speaker 3 00:05:03 Yeah.

Heather 00:05:04 Yeah. And from my point of view, you know, my previous days as a psychotherapist, I can see that the people craving security might be in a couple of groups like that. They're probably people who always had security. So they they that's just what they expect. Or they're probably people who didn't have any security, who really crave it. And a very, very defensive about losing it and frightened about losing it. Whereas the others, you know, they're they may have had a similar upbringing, but they've come at it from being really driven to come out of it and change. And quite often I think, sorry, I'm keeping going. But this thinking, quite often the, the perception, that they're more likely to be the reflectors of the world who could see things going on in their families, and it wasn't right for them and they want something different.

Adele 00:06:00 Yeah. Yeah. yeah. And I think that, you know, look we, we know that the way we grow up really shapes us.

Adele 00:06:09 And I don't think it's necessarily that one. You know the person who's craving stability was necessarily raised one way and these people were raised a different way. But it's it's the way that we have like developed our, our I don't know, our, our strategies, the things that really matter to us as a result of it. Right. Yeah. And yeah, I think that's true. I think that these people who are so driven to grow and evolve, there's something, within them that, you know, sees problems and wants to change them. And it's like they have this deep seated belief that, like, I can, I can change. If I can change something, why wouldn't I, you know, why would I stay in this unhappy place if I don't absolutely have to? Yeah. Yeah.

Heather 00:07:01 Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that there may be something in our culture more broadly that there are more of those people around. And it's it's more fulfillment. Self-fulfillment is more in the zeitgeist and connection.

Adele 00:07:17 Yeah. You know what? That's a really good point. When people when people often talk about, you know, the old days, you know, and people tend to glamorize it, oh, our grandparents and great grandparents stayed together for 85 years. And, you know, nobody got divorced back then. And what's going on? People today are just selfish. I hear I hear that a lot. Now, the people who are saying that are the kinds of people who really crave that stability and that security. And I do think our culture I mean, I'm in the US obviously here in the UK and but like I can speak for, you know, being an American, right? Like we're all about, you know, self-fulfillment. And people can see that as selfish. you know, you can also see it as, you know, embracing opportunities and wanting to grow. And, and I do think there's more and more of an emphasis on that. And maybe since, you know, I refer to Oprah all the time because, you know, I grew up watching Oprah after school.

Adele 00:08:21 And, you know, I know my parents and grandparents didn't. And I think like, it's I always think about her because she's someone who kind of brought it into the culture to prioritize personal growth and being able to talk about things. And so, you know, and there are all these kind of influences out there that, that, that are like encouraging that. Yes.

Heather 00:08:47 Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And if you've got that in you, it's not something I can acknowledge. I've got it in me. I can't put a cork in it. You know, it just builds up the pressure. It's like shaking champagne. There's a lot of pressure builds up and it's. Yeah.

Adele 00:09:05 So true. I remember that that metaphor reminds me of of another one that one of my friends gave me back when I was married and very in this place myself. And she would say to me, you know, think about like, if you're at the ocean, the ocean, and you have a beach ball and you're trying to hold it under the waves, you know, you can do it for a little bit, but ultimately it's just going to like come back up because you can only force something down for so long.

Adele 00:09:31 And if this is like an essential part of who you are, the more you try to repress it, I think the more tension builds up. And And it ends up creating, like, a lot of stress and unhappiness.

Speaker 3 00:09:46 Yeah. Yes.

Heather 00:09:48 It's the proverbial rock and a hard place I think.

Speaker 3 00:09:53 Yeah.

Heather 00:09:55 So let's have a think about the, the steps that you'll work through with somebody. Because I think to some degree people need to know this so they can think about it for themselves that what they need to do to grow. Yeah. but also I think we need to tell them, you know, what you do and how they can find.

Speaker 3 00:10:14 You.

Heather 00:10:16 So that if they want to work with you, they can.

Speaker 3 00:10:19 Yeah, sure. So,

Heather 00:10:22 We're looking at from the point of view. Shall we stay or shall we go? What what do you do when somebody walks through the door and says that to you?

Adele 00:10:31 Yeah. Well, you know, the the first thing I do is, you know, have a, have a long, a 60 minute call with them to really find out exactly where they are.

Adele 00:10:40 And, it's really important to me from the get go to really get someone, to really I'm always listening for, you know, what really matters to this person. And like we were saying, so often, they've been told, you know what? What you want isn't okay, it's not valid. And so from the get go, just like knowing that someone cares about what matters to them and really seeing them is like so important. So that's like the beginning of the whole thing right there. and so often what these people are asking me about initially is okay, well what do I do about this other person. I'm, I'm with. Like is there any hope that they might change. And how long do I keep trying. You know, so one of the first things I kind of have to explain to them, you know, gently, is that ultimately this is all going to come down to you. And the way we're going to figure this out isn't by, traditional couples therapy. Just like listening to each other.

Adele 00:11:45 It's also not about trying to get the other person to change. It's going to come down to you. And so I have a system that I go through with, with, an individual who's stuck in this place. So and usually these people get it right, because they are the kinds of people who are already interested in growth. so, would you like me to give you kind of an overview of the, the steps I work through with them?

Heather 00:12:09 Let's go through one, one step at a time, I think because you're looking because I think it's a rich process. And I think if we if we whizz over, we might miss something.

Adele 00:12:21 Yes, absolutely.

Heather 00:12:22 So you're making connection to begin with. what sort of state are they in? You're making connection to take care of their feelings and really see them. But what sort of state are they in when they come to you.

Adele 00:12:40 A lot of frustration, oftentimes resentment. feeling like dissatisfied, unfulfilled. but, you know, if someone is, by the time they're going to book a call with someone like me, it's usually reached kind of a boiling point.

Adele 00:13:08 You know, there's too much built up unhappiness and, like, this feeling of angst or almost. And I don't know who just, the right feeling word for this, but like, being boxed in and trapped, like, I'm, I'm trapped here, and I've got to get out.

Speaker 3 00:13:23 Yeah.

Heather 00:13:24 So it's not necessarily I've got to get out of the relationship, but I'm trapped inside. I've got so many emotions that have got nowhere to go. Super stressed inside.

Adele 00:13:33 Well, that's true, although I think most of them see it as the relationship is what's trapping them, right? You know, they wouldn't necessarily know that. But yeah, you're right.

Speaker 3 00:13:45 Oh, yeah. Got you. So.

Heather 00:13:48 So what do you do is the first step.

Adele 00:13:51 Okay, so once I start working with someone, the very first step is what I call befriend. And I've made up kind of these words that are a little bit, even to my ears, sound a little bit cheesy sometimes, but the word is befriend.

Adele 00:14:06 And so the reason I call it that is because that when people come in to me, I mean, in every case, but especially especially when someone is feels like their relationship or their marriage is what's trapping them, they tend to be very self-critical and they'll say horrible things to themselves. You know, I must be a terrible person, you know? and so the very first thing I do is I want them to develop a lot of self compassion and or self empathy, you could call it. And so what's really important about that is that when we are so stuck in these difficult emotions and we feel trapped and there's nowhere, no way out, we have to we have to find a way of working with those really difficult emotions in order to make any progress, because it's kind of like, you know, that fight or flight thing. So when we're so hijacked by emotions, we can't think clearly, we can't see possibilities. And these are people who are trying to make a decision, a really important decision.

Adele 00:15:20 And you can't possibly make a good decision when you're like, so freaked out. So the very first thing I do is help them. And, this is about so much more than just like talking and listening. I like to give them a specific tool to use, and not everybody takes advantage of it. But in an ideal world, I give them this tool to use, and it's something they use every day so that they are really building a skill that will, you know, be with them forever.

Speaker 3 00:15:49 And how to.

Heather 00:15:50 Take care of their own feelings and their own needs.

Speaker 3 00:15:53 Exactly. You have to.

Heather 00:15:54 Understand themselves.

Adele 00:15:56 Exactly how to understand themselves and how to soothe themselves. You know, rather than doing that thing we often do, which is distract ourselves by staying busy or, you know, that's a that's a favorite one of my clients. Right? Because these are tend to be really successful people. They stay busy. But there can be more things. There can be other things we do that are much more destructive.

Adele 00:16:19 but staying busy, the favorite one or pretending like you're not really bothered when you are.

Speaker 3 00:16:25 Yeah.

Heather 00:16:26 And there's other things, I guess. The stress Relievers. Alcohol. Food. Right. Over exercising. Under exercising. Over sleeping. Not sleeping at all. Getting addicted to your phone. Playing video games. Even you know. Yeah.

Adele 00:16:42 We all have our strategies, right. And. And one thing you know, I've really been I was talking to you before, you know, we started recording about this work with Nonviolent Communication I'm doing which is like so amazing. And what I love about it is it brings in a lot of our conscious uncoupling, concepts are embedded in this process. oh my gosh, where was I going with that? Oh, I know, so one of the things they talk about is all these things we do the unskillful things, right? The drinking and the gaming and the whatever we choose to do, they're all just strategies to try to get our needs met and that's it, you know? And so when we can see that these things we do or other people do like even though they might on their face be very unhealthy or harmful or, you know, we're all just trying to do the best we can to to get our needs met.

Adele 00:17:39 That's it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:17:41 Yeah.

Heather 00:17:43 So great. So that's the first bit that you help the person really feel secure in themselves, have understanding of themselves, take care of themselves, relieve their stress, self-soothe. Yeah. Where do you go next, then?

Adele 00:17:59 So the step two I call empower. And then in this step this is really about. Coming to terms with the idea that at the end of the day, all all we can control is ourselves. And so, so often, like I said, even though the people who come to me are the kind of people who work on themselves and are really take charge people, think it's kind of human nature, that when we're in a difficult relationship, we tend to look at the other person as the cause of our problems, and we want to change them. I mean, I know I did this, I've done this a lot of times, and we tend to think, oh gosh, if they would only change this thing, then everything would be okay.

Adele 00:18:45 and we can extend an enormous amount of energy trying for that to make that happen. And the sad thing is, the more you try, the worse the relationship gets. So in this step, it's really about, helping them build a lot of confidence and power within themselves to to really focus on what they can control. You know, what? What can we control ourselves and and barely that sometimes. But at least, you know, as, as they're developing that skill of the emotional regulation and then in this step is a lot more about like The the mindset I guess around it just seeing, okay, well, I can't do anything about that person, whatever they're doing or not doing, but I can listen to this recording. I can soothe my own emotions. I can work on communicating, I can go for coaching. and, these people end up feeling much more like confident and even powerful, you know, powerful in a healthy way.

Speaker 3 00:19:52 That.

Adele 00:19:53 You're seeing, you know, okay, where can I where can I make changes that will that will help me?

Speaker 3 00:20:01 Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:20:02 Does that make sense?

Heather 00:20:03 Yeah. Really taking care of yourself. So that is, learning. Learning what's really important to you and taking steps to get it. And I'm not, I'm not going sort of too far out with this. I'm sort of thinking about what do I really need? What do I want? How have I stopped nourishing myself in ways that I really need to be nourished?

Adele 00:20:26 Yeah, it's a really good point. And and this is why, to go back just a minute to the first step. So the steps are building on each other, right. So one of the very first things I do, and I know you're familiar, Heather, with the feelings and needs lists from our book. I give my clients feelings and needs lists and I give them a document so that, you know, whenever there's a difficult feeling coming up or ideally they practice it several times a day, even without a difficult feeling, they'll actually look at the list and write down what they're feeling. They'll look at the lists and tune in to okay, well what's the need that's under the feeling.

Adele 00:21:07 And so.

Speaker 3 00:21:09 We.

Adele 00:21:10 We aren't even aware of what we need. I know I wasn't and and and when I say need I mean think broad things like support love acceptance. I'm not talking about a I need a hug or I need a candy bar. Those things are strategies. They're not. the needs. But, what's great about this and what I really see in my clients who actually practice this is they do start understanding, oh, wait, I do have needs and we all have needs. And, you know, I'm coaching them through this, right? These needs are universal. There's nothing wrong with you that you have this need for connection or for growth or to matter to someone else. Right. And, and so the more people practice this and understanding that, that that feeling they have is because one of their needs isn't being met. And so it gives them like this permission to have the feeling and have the need. And they start connecting things and they start realizing, okay, oh, wow.

Adele 00:22:11 So I do have this need that hasn't been met. And then we can start brainstorming. What are some of the ways I could go about getting that need Matt. Does that make sense okay.

Heather 00:22:22 Yes it absolutely does. It absolutely does. And that's very powerful. They're very simple words for a very powerful thing.

Speaker 3 00:22:34 Very.

Adele 00:22:36 And I know so many of us one thing I've noticed you know we tend to think men are especially stunted when it comes to knowing what they feel and certainly knowing what they need. And maybe to some extent that's true. But I mean, I can speak for myself. I know that working on this has been extraordinarily difficult for me. I never knew what I felt the first time I went to a therapist. I remember she asked me what I was feeling. I was like, I don't know, I feel fine. That was my standard answer. and I also kind of was I tended to think of myself as not having needs, not being needless. And and I, I see that in so many of my clients.

Adele 00:23:25 They aren't tuned into it at all.

Heather 00:23:28 No, I think they followed the strategy. This is what I see often. They followed the strategy of trying to fit in because their needs necessarily didn't didn't necessarily fit in with their family of origin. They might have been the odd one out in the family in some way or I tend to put it, which is is an interesting angle, the same one in a crazy family, like if else has any, acknowledgement of feelings and needs in the family, and you have feelings and needs, you're going to find ways of handling that yourself because they're not going to get met there. So often what you do is look after everybody and you get your feelings and needs met by reflection rather than by immediate action towards you. So you get your kudos by being the good girl.

Adele 00:24:24 So many clients are the caregivers the good ones. Yeah. The ones who. It happened just yesterday. One of my clients said oh I had to raise my sister from the time she was, I don't know how old she was.

Adele 00:24:37 He was only 13. Paying the mortgage at only 13. And you know in that puts it's such a burden especially on a child. And it's like so many of these people are have become over responsible. And as a result it's like okay I'm going to prioritize everyone else. Yeah. And don't even think about themselves.

Heather 00:25:03 So what I see then is the converse of it happens that in relationship, somehow we expect that part of us that was neglected in childhood to be met in relationship. So we expect the partner to be the parent we never had. And we've often chosen them because they're familiar in the pattern.

Adele 00:25:24 Yeah, totally.

Heather 00:25:25 Totally like our parents, you know?

Adele 00:25:28 Yeah, yeah. And since we don't know, you know, if I reflect on myself and the things I learned going through the conscious uncoupling, we, you know, we coached each other. For those of you who don't know about this method, when I went through conscious uncoupling training, we had to coach each other. And I learned so much through that.

Adele 00:25:48 And I can see very clearly now what I did. And of course my needs weren't getting met, but it wasn't because of who I was married to, it was because I didn't even know. I didn't know what I felt or what I needed or, or let alone how to express that.

Speaker 3 00:26:05 Yeah.

Heather 00:26:06 So you've got self-soothing and self-understanding and then moving into the power of choice. Where do you go from there.

Speaker 3 00:26:18 So

Adele 00:26:21 Once we have. Learned those kind of you know what I consider basics, the things we really need, people are ready to do a really deep work. So the step three is, is this really deep work which I call release. And it's about letting go of the patterns that we've established and the beliefs we have about ourselves that are really holding us back. and, you know, it's kind of like you can't if you this is like maybe a silly metaphor, but it's like, if you want to redecorate your house, you can't do that until you take out all the old dirty furniture first.

Adele 00:27:03 It makes space for something new. So that's what we're doing. We're create. We're letting go of all this old junk that's holding us back. so to be more specific, this is it's about taking a deep look at what's underneath the things that we do and the people we attract. You know, people often say, oh, I'm a people pleaser or I'm anxious or I attract a lot of toxic people, but it's looking at really what's underneath that, which tend to be these limiting beliefs we have about ourselves. so the way I work, I work with this stuff in several ways, but one of the biggest ways is I do, I'm trained in a method called RTT, or Rapid Transformational Therapy, that helps us get to the root of what it is we're believing about ourselves and helps us transform that. So when you when you transform the way you're believing, the way you're thinking, than the way you're acting can change more easily, it's not as difficult to do something different, which is really what this all ends up being about.

Adele 00:28:10 It's like if we want to make a change, we have to do something different. and it's so much easier to do something different when your thoughts and your beliefs are, are lined up because. Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:28:25 Yeah.

Heather 00:28:26 When you're in that more grown up overvaluing self rather than in the child self that is seeing the world through a five year old's or a ten year old's lens, or a 13 year old lens or a 17 year old lens who was bringing up the 13 year old and that it's, you're just about cobbling together a sense of an adult, but it's not a a supported adult. It's not a sort of congruent collection of all your parts. It's like fitting together a jigsaw from all sorts of different puzzles. Yeah, but the way that. Yeah, but the way that you work, which I've seen and experienced for myself through having some rapid transformational therapy with you, that you give something to a deep level, which is a personal recording tailored to each person's needs, to really address those old core beliefs and through hypnosis and deep care.

Heather 00:29:32 Very skilled analysis of of what each individual person's feelings, needs, and beliefs are. You create that personal recording to listen to, which is very, very liberating.

Adele 00:29:48 Yeah, yeah. The recording is a big piece of it. So I like to tell people that, you know, to make it simple, you know, that, you know, we all have this voice in our head that tends to say not very nice things and it's like it's on auto repeat. You know, it's like if you installed a tape and that got installed in our brains sometimes sometime really young. And it's ultimately these the way we're thinking about ourselves. So, you know, and just to give like an example in case people listening or like what what is she talking about? You know, a lot of times people, I would say hardly ever people aware of what this deep stuff layer is. but if if you pay attention, you know, to your thoughts, they're leading you in a certain direction, right? So the core belief might be something like, I'm unlovable or I don't matter, and you might even hear those exact words in your mind.

Adele 00:30:52 But regardless, the words tend to be really negative and self-critical. So what we're doing in that, in that recording is I am giving people a.

Speaker 3 00:31:04 New.

Adele 00:31:06 Script that will be on, hopefully on autopilot in their minds as opposed to the old recording. And it's and so the recording is just full of encouraging, incredibly positive, really powerful language. And, and when you listen to it repeatedly, it becomes, you know, embedded in your subconscious mind just the way the old stuff was.

Speaker 3 00:31:28 Yeah.

Adele 00:31:29 so it's really transformative.

Speaker 3 00:31:32 Yeah.

Heather 00:31:32 It is, it's liberating. It separates the past from the future for me in awareness and clarity and choice.

Adele 00:31:42 Exactly. There's even a lot of language in the recording about where it may be. Not so much in the recording, but prior to the recording about the past being done and, and, people gain a lot of awareness during the session that, that the beliefs they formed were, were formed by a child, by a child's mind, and they were never actually true.

Adele 00:32:08 And that now, as an adult, we have a choice to to believe the things we want to believe. And when you really see that and start hearing it over and over and over again, it really it really does change us.

Speaker 3 00:32:18 Yeah.

Heather 00:32:19 What's that lovely quote? Start of a book? I think the past is another country. They do things differently there.

Speaker 3 00:32:26 Yeah.

Adele 00:32:27 I like that, I like that. Yeah. And another part of the session I just want to mention that. So healing for people, maybe the most healing part sometimes is I have I have the client talk to one of their parents. It's almost always a parent. It could be someone, another grown up in their lives, but someone who in their mind caused some kind of harm to them. And through this conversation, they come to see that this person just didn't have the capability or the skills or didn't, you know, really know that they were lovable or worthy and that it was never about the client being defective in some way.

Adele 00:33:08 It was never about them. And so once they can separate that out and then see this person as like, you know, someone that they actually have compassion for, I was trying the best they could. That ends up being really healing too. And they think, oh gosh, this was never about me. My mom just didn't have the wherewithal. That's it.

Speaker 3 00:33:28 Yeah.

Heather 00:33:29 And do you mean literally talking to them or metaphorically talking to me?

Adele 00:33:34 Because sometimes these parents are dead or they live in another state or they wouldn't want to have the conversation. So it's. Yeah, it's not something that has to take place in real life.

Speaker 3 00:33:44 Yeah. Yeah.

Heather 00:33:45 So it's helping your individual person working with you to get their picture of their parent clear and have an overview. Yes.

Adele 00:33:54 Thank you for asking that. It wasn't clear.

Speaker 3 00:33:57 I know.

Heather 00:33:58 Sometimes I ask people to write a letter to their parents, and you can see sometimes they just go, oh, yeah, not not to send just that.

Adele 00:34:08 That's not the important part.

Adele 00:34:09 But I will say I have I have seen with a number of clients almost an immediate impact with their relationship with the parent if they're still alive. I had one client one time who had this really powerful conversation with her mother that she wasn't totally estranged from, but she really hardly ever saw her. and right after our session, like an hour later, her mother called her and offered to come visit. She was saying, you don't understand. This never happens. And so, you know, I have to think that's related.

Heather 00:34:47 It does give you the chills when those sorts of coincidences go on. You do wonder about some sort of connections between us that are completely unseen and unknown.

Speaker 3 00:34:58 Yeah.

Adele 00:34:59 I believe it, because I've seen it.

Heather 00:35:01 Yeah. Me too. Me too. Multiple times.

Speaker 3 00:35:05 Yeah.

Heather 00:35:06 So where do you go when you've done the release and the RTT?

Adele 00:35:11 So after we've done all that, it's like, you know, I've said you've cleared away the old furniture. So now it's time to create something that you are really excited about.

Adele 00:35:22 You know, so I think of step four as being the fun part. and so I call it create. It's about consciously creating the life and relationships you really want. And so in the past when we have all this garbage or conditioning cluttering us up, we are we are still we're creating our lives, but we're doing it by default. And so once you have new beliefs and you know all these some new skills, you're able to actually create what's what you truly want. and so, you know, I try to help them have fun with the process, you know, and so there are different ways we do this. There can be some visualizing, helping people really get into that, feeling of possibility of positive expectation as opposed to what we usually do, which is, I hear it all the time with my friends. For example, are there no good men out there? I'll never find anyone, you know? and then guess what? It's not going to happen. So helping them build, you know, a lot of positive expectation.

Adele 00:36:32 And then we can even do fun things like vision boards and, and kind of get into a little bit of the, like, manifesting work. and. Yeah, and people have fun with it.

Speaker 3 00:36:45 it sounds lovely.

Heather 00:36:46 And do they ever choose to stay when you're going through this process, does the other person inadvertently grow with them? How does it work?

Adele 00:36:56 thinking about that, I've not met anyone yet for whom that's happened.

Speaker 3 00:37:01 I'm not.

Adele 00:37:01 Saying it's possible. It's not. I'm not saying it's not possible. I think it is totally possible. But I've not seen it happen.

Speaker 3 00:37:09 yeah, I have not.

Adele 00:37:11 and and I think there's a good reason for that. I think the reason is that by the time people come to work with.

Speaker 3 00:37:20 Me, they.

Adele 00:37:21 Actually truly are wanting something different for themselves. They really know this relationship isn't going to work, but it's like they need something to they need to give themselves permission. And that's really what it comes down to.

Speaker 3 00:37:39 Yeah.

Heather 00:37:41 It's really fundamental, isn't it, because it's permission to live differently from how you've adapted yourself to live.

Speaker 3 00:37:49 In.

Heather 00:37:49 A state where your feelings and needs don't matter, or you're not important or worthy of being cared or feeling lovable. Once you can see, yeah, once you can see beyond that, you can see. You can't live in those two tight shoes anymore.

Speaker 3 00:38:06 Exactly.

Adele 00:38:07 Exactly. That's really, really, really important, you know? So these people, that's what's keeping them stuck in that place. It's like they're thinking it's not okay to want what they want to need what they need to feel the way they feel, and that they're a bad person if they prioritize themselves and thinking, I'm hurting this other person if I leave them so and so, it ends up being a lot of times the some of the work in that step three that I was just talking about, a lot of times it's.

Speaker 3 00:38:41 Around.

Adele 00:38:43 Releasing the belief that, I'm somehow bad. If I were selfish, if I prioritize myself. and, you know, some of this is simple reframing to write like, is, that ultimately.

Speaker 3 00:39:02 It's.

Adele 00:39:05 It's not going to be good for the other person or for the relationship if you stay just because of a sense of obligation.

Speaker 3 00:39:12 Yeah.

Heather 00:39:13 Yeah, that's a hell of a message to give somebody. I'm just going to stay with you because I feel duty bound.

Speaker 3 00:39:19 Yeah. Yes.

Heather 00:39:22 That's dead in the middle.

Adele 00:39:24 It really is. I actually had a call with someone yesterday that this was a really interesting situation. I'm not going to go into details because, you know, it was a conversation. But more than anyone I'd ever spoken to this person, this was just a first call. First time we've ever met I was very sure that, they wanted to honor their own needs. And they were saying, you know what? I have this these needs, and they're important to me. And they haven't been met for years. And I can't keep on like this. It's not healthy for me. And at the same time, I see that my partner has these needs, and I really want to support and love this person and help them get as many of their needs met as possible.

Adele 00:40:17 And so I've never met anyone that was so balanced in terms of, you know, I've got my needs matter just as much, even though the partner's needs, a lot of people from the outside would think that the partners needs were more important because this person had a lot of issues. but yeah, it was, it was it was kind of beautiful to see.

Heather 00:40:42 A sense of a global view of their relationship.

Speaker 3 00:40:45 Yeah.

Adele 00:40:46 That like. And this is at the heart of this communication style, which I keep talking about all the time because I'm so into it. but at the heart of it is everyone's needs matter equally. And there is a way that we can, you know, maximize the everybody getting their needs met. So it's not about me or you. Like I get my needs met. That means you don't or you get yours met. And I don't know, it doesn't need to be like that. There are ways that we can they're creative solutions to everybody getting being supported.

Speaker 3 00:41:22 Yeah.

Heather 00:41:23 So this is where you're moving into your step five is learning all these new skills.

Heather 00:41:28 Tell me about step five. Yeah.

Adele 00:41:29 So step five is really about putting everything together. I call it live and love because it's about really working together to solidify the learning that we've. just solidified the learning up to this point. And, you know, there are inevitably bumps in the road. So in this step are really just practicing and readjusting. and, and in this step, we're doing a lot of specific practice around communication skills, which, you know, I told you at the very beginning, we're working on identifying the feelings and needs. And that's kind of the first building block to being able to communicate well, because one thing I've learned is, gosh, I wish I'd known this a long time ago. We can't possibly communicate with another person unless we know what we feel and what we need, and we also can't do it if we're not able to see another person with compassion and empathy. So we've been gradually like building these skills, and we were doing a lot of practice stuff. And then and also, you know, I think this is an important thing to remember.

Adele 00:42:34 A lot of my clients will get frustrated with themselves because they made progress and then they slip. They've developed a healthy habit, and then they stop doing that thing. So I really like to build in time to kind of coach them through those times and help them realize, okay, look at all the gains you've made. You know, maybe you're not you know, you're not doing this thing every day. But look at where you were when we started. And that's really powerful for them. I'll just say that another thing I'm, I'm a big fan of is, like our really nerd out on habits because I see a habit as the way that, you know, your, your life really changes. You know, your life doesn't change if you do something once or twice, but if you do something every day, your life can change. It's like going to the gym, you know, you got to go to the gym a lot before you see changes. So I'm helping them build healthy habits. And sometimes it's not even relationship specific.

Adele 00:43:37 You know, I'm helping them build healthy habits around, you know, their health. And I'm encouraging them to meditate every day. And some of my clients start working out for the first time. And this is all important and it's all relevant.

Speaker 3 00:43:48 Yeah. Yeah.

Heather 00:43:49 Those are the things that I know from working with you because I wasn't centered around relationship. And I've got very different habits and ways of being from focusing on those things.

Speaker 3 00:43:59 Oh yeah. I'm good. Yeah.

Heather 00:44:01 It's and I think it's a, it's a beautiful process and you integrate things so very well. You know, it's partly why I want to talk to you because I want to share what you do want other people to know about it as well. So I guess we need to tell them where to find you.

Adele 00:44:20 Yeah. So it's pretty easy to find me because everything is just my first and last name. My website is Adele Karen. Sadly, Q or I n.com. Instagram is the same. My handles added a grin. I'm on Facebook, Adele Curran, but I don't.

Adele 00:44:40 I'm not all over social media. I'm just using those two right now in my website and through the website, people can look a free call. I'm actually about to include some other interesting things on my, website, like a some resources that people can just grab for helping them, you know, immediately communicate better. So yeah.

Speaker 3 00:45:02 Yeah.

Adele 00:45:04 and I'd love to talk to anybody, you know, who's who's stuck and just doesn't know what to do or, you know, is really looking for clarity.

Speaker 3 00:45:13 Yeah, yeah.

Heather 00:45:15 Yeah. I love free resources because it actually gives people a chance to see who you are. Yeah. And this too, now, and gives them a flavor of what you do. So they can, they can taste before they buy.

Adele 00:45:30 Yeah. I agree. And for, for whatever reason I like, I'm really interested in something that's tangible and practical. So, you know, the resources I offer are things that I mean, obviously you have to put them into.

Speaker 3 00:45:43 Practice.

Adele 00:45:44 Right? But there are things that like if you implement them, you know, you're going to see an actual change. So it's not just this is why I'm not a big fan of just talking like talk, just talk therapy. Where does that get you? I mean, it might gain you some insights, but like, I think people people really want to change. They want to transform. Yeah. And so to do that you have to know how.

Speaker 3 00:46:07 Yeah.

Adele 00:46:08 So I'm a big fan of doing that.

Heather 00:46:10 Yep yep. Yes I completely agree I completely agree. Thank you so much Adele. It's been wonderful having you here.

Speaker 3 00:46:19 It's been really.

Adele 00:46:19 Fun. I love I love talking about this and I love talking to you. So put the two together.

Speaker 3 00:46:25 It's been really fun.

Heather 00:46:26 We're having a win win.

Speaker 3 00:46:28 Yeah, exactly.

Adele 00:46:29 Have a great day. Thank you.