Heather 00:00:05 Hello, everybody. I'm here with Adele. Catherine. Another wonderful colleague of mine, this time from Conscious Uncoupling. A brilliant mind and a wonderful heart. She's a transformational relationship and communication coach now, and she coaches couples and individuals who are craving authentic, fulfilling relationships. She believes that everyone can develop the skills they need to have the kind of love they really deserve. Welcome, Adele.

Adele 00:00:42 Thank you Heather, I'm so excited to be with you.

Heather 00:00:44 So tell me, first off, how did you get from conscious uncoupling to doing transformational couple work?

Adele 00:00:53 That's a really good question. I, you know, I found that what conscious uncoupling is all about at the end of the day is helping people, relate better have have the kind of relationship that, will will sustain them no matter, you know, whether they end up breaking up or not. And so, you know, conscious uncoupling, most people come to it with the intention that they're, you know, they're probably going to separate or divorce. And through this method, you know, I found that, you know, the way that we help people have a respectful breakup is through helping them have a better relationship.

Adele 00:01:38 So I realized I could transfer those same skills into just having people, you know, it's at the end of the day, it's a relationship, whether you're actually living together or not. So you can have a good relationship apart or you can have a good relationship together. So I decided for me, it's much more inspiring to emphasize the having the the kind of relationship we want. I also started working with a few couples who wanted to stay together, and I did the exact same kind of work and it worked beautifully. So I thought, you know, we can, I can, I can do I can do both. Really?

Heather 00:02:16 Yeah. That's wonderful. It's wonderful. And I found that too, that sometimes people come to do conscious uncoupling. And they find when they've learned what they didn't know through this process that they they want to stay together and they've got those new skills. But I think you've extended it much further than that. And I'd like you to, to talk to me a little bit about why couples stay stuck, because so many of the people that come to us, you particularly, I think, have had a lot of couples therapy, but it's not worked.

Heather 00:02:52 And how is what you do different? So that's a really big set of questions all in one go.

Adele 00:02:59 I know I can talk about that alone for an hour. I don't know how long we have, but I'll try to keep it short. so yes, people often come to me after couples counseling and, by the way, individual counseling or therapy. And it's really common. In fact, I just spoke to someone yesterday for them to say, you know what? We've been doing this. We nothing nothing changed. I've been going to individual therapy for two years. I'm not any closer to figuring this stuff out. And, you know, in my I've had many experiences of going to couples counseling that didn't really do anything. In fact, I would often leave angrier and closer to divorce after a session than I was before the session. And so I thought, you know, there's something wrong with this. And I wanted to figure out what it is. And so there there are a few things.

Adele 00:03:53 I mean, just sort of on a very basic level, I'm really passionate about change and how people change and what makes that change possible. So what I've realized about most, you know, and I know all therapists and counselors do things differently. But in my experience, the vast majority of the time we go and we talk to someone, let's say once a week, and then we don't implement any actual changes. So we might gain a lot of awareness, but there's no change being made. And so that's just like at a very basic level. And then I start thinking about, well, why aren't we making changes? Okay. So and again this is something I could describe forever. I'll try to keep it simple. in order for us to change, we have to change the way we're thinking, you know, and we have to change the way we're feeling and the actions we take. And in order to change all those things, we must change our, our deep beliefs about ourselves. And so that's a level that we don't normally get to and talk therapy.

Adele 00:05:00 It's a much deeper work. These beliefs are really subconscious. So that's the deep, deep, deep side of it. And then there's this other side of it that's much I wouldn't say it's shallow, but it's more practical, which is in order to make a change, we have to do something different on a daily basis. We have to practice. It's like when you learn how to drive a car, you can't just go to a, you know, what do they call those classes where you learn how to drive once or twice and once a week and just go to a classroom? You have to get behind the wheel of the car and sit there with an instructor and be guided, and you have to practice it. And so this is what I see is like a huge gap. It's if you think about a, you know, for a relationship to work, you have to have certain skills, you have to do something different, you have to learn something new and then you have to practice it.

Adele 00:05:50 Yeah. So the things that I would say the, the deep beliefs that are driving our behaviors is a huge piece. And then the other piece is this daily practice really learning new habits? Those are the things I don't see happening in counseling or therapy.

Heather 00:06:07 No. And I think there's something, you know, as a psychotherapist of 40 years, I dread to say, and I don't feel I've been on the earth that long yet. But anyway, I can see that many of the trainings work on getting people in touch with their little self, but they get sort of identified with that little self. And the the shift doesn't happen. It sort of almost can cement them in. Whereas the approach you're talking about is getting in touch with that little self, but not identifying, being separate from learning how to look after that little self yourself so that you're not relating to your partner as if they're a surrogate parent. With all the the negative patterns that you may have had in your growing up years projected onto them so that they will replicate what you had.

Heather 00:07:10 And but nor are they the idealized parent that you're hoping to get everything you didn't get from which they can never fulfill. So there's some really important steps in the coaching practice that you do that gets to beneath that victim level, beside that victim level, above that victim level, so that you're really holding that working out what that little one made sense of the world with, you know, the I am alone's they I don't matters that they then live from and relate from. And then you undo that as much as you possibly can through awareness and then you teach new skills to be able to interact from a truly adult self, the wise human being that we are, rather than the little human being that we are. And that's where the rich relationship comes.

Adele 00:08:11 Yeah, you. What you're describing, to me, really highlights the big difference between therapy and coaching generally, where therapy often will will look back and like you said, gain awareness and might, you know, do this kind of repair work or whatever you want to call it, inner child work.

Adele 00:08:30 And that's important. And it's not enough to make a change. And so coaching I mean, you know this, Heather, better than anybody because you're trained in both. but coaching tends to be more about the, the future. Right. So how do I go from where I am to where I want to be? And if where I want to be is having an authentic, fulfilling relationship, I need to do some different things. Okay. So beyond that, and you're right, that identification with the the little child I, I've talked to, so many people will say, okay, I know what my wounds are. And, you know, they might be very aware of that. And it it almost like you're saying becomes this victim identity. This. Okay. Well, this happened to me when I was a child, and I'm getting triggered. And now he needs to avoid my trigger, and he's triggering me, and, you know, and that's all that's true. And we need to learn how to lift ourselves up out of that so that we aren't really, like you said, identified with that.

Adele 00:09:35 And so that we, learn ways to, to do it differently. So we're not just expecting that other person to, to be someone that they really can't be.

Heather 00:09:49 Yeah. They can't do it for us basically. Yeah. And they can't always avoid our triggers now.

Adele 00:09:56 And in fact, you know, I one perspective is the more we try to avoid the triggers, the less likely are to to learn to deal with them or to I don't know I don't know what your perspective is if it's possible to heal it, but we can you know, I heard this metaphor once I really like, which is if you think about, getting triggered as someone throwing salt on a wound. Okay. Then what we tend to do when we get triggered is we blame the person who threw the salt. But if there weren't a wound there in the first place, we wouldn't be triggered. So it's not about preventing the person from throwing the salt. It's about really looking at that what's, you know, underneath that wound that's causing us to be triggered and working on that.

Heather 00:10:49 Yes, yes. So it's our work to clean the wound and let it become scar tissue and stronger.

Speaker 3 00:10:57 Yeah.

Heather 00:10:57 Yeah, I get you, I get you. So if we go a little bit further, once we've we've done that. Tell me some more about the new skills you, you took, about how to do it wrong and how to do it right when we've had our chat. So tell me a bit more about that.

Adele 00:11:16 About the skills themselves. Well there are a lot of skills I like to build in. I'm a big fan of you know there's a side of me that's like really practical you know. and, and the way I work is I have actually the way I work is structured, it's based on the structure of conscious uncoupling. Okay. So so my steps correlate with the steps of conscious uncoupling. but I make it longer and I build in more. So I'm a huge fan of tools and skills and I'm building them in all along the way. So the very first skill I like to help people with is the skill around, you could call it containing their emotions or, you know, basically emotional literacy, right? Like learning how to and what to do in the moment when you are triggered.

Adele 00:12:09 Because when people come in and they're struggling in their relationships, they're usually in a lot of pain. And until they have like a tool they can go to in the moment, that tends to like, you know, be part of what creates those same arguments over and over and over again, or people get stuck in their heads constantly thinking about something. So, you know, and that skill I do, similarly to the way we learn and conscious uncoupling, I have a few tweaks. And I also, one of the ways I do this and I help cement it, it's not just something I do one time. I do it with the client in person. I send them a recording. I have them listen to it every day, and I have them do some writing along with it. And, you know, not everyone's going to do something every day, but as much as possible, I encourage that and then I hold them accountable for doing it. So that's the first skill. And so I'll just pause there in case.

Heather 00:13:12 Now that that's really important. What I'm loving in that is the last piece actually the accountability. You teach them the skill how to contain their feelings, how to be kind to themselves. It's that essentially how to listen. Yeah. Self-compassion. Yeah. But then you ask them to take actions. So it's it's like knowing you've got a weak muscle and you need to go to physio. But how many people when they, they've been injured do the physio. But you're actually asking people every day to do these things to strengthen that muscle of self-care and self-compassion in preparation for the next steps so that they'll start off, you know me with my broken wrist, strengthening my muscle. But you're actually training me to lift weights.

Speaker 3 00:14:04 Right? Right.

Adele 00:14:05 And build build the muscle. And, you know, that's it's a perfect analogy. I hear that one a lot with going to the gym. And, you know, Heather, I've been I've been someone who has gone to the gym almost every single day since I was 20 years old or something.

Adele 00:14:21 And, in my first training as a coach was as an integrative health coach. So that's really where this is coming from, is my background in helping people develop habits that stick. So okay, so self-compassion, I just look at it as, okay, you got to learn a new skill. We've got to develop a new habit. And since we're not in the habit of being compassionate with ourselves, I'm like, okay, well, it's like going to the gym. You've got to practice it every day. You're building a muscle. And, and I have all kinds of ways of helping people with that. And, you know, it's it is accountability. But I consider it what I say. It's it's compassionate accountability. because look, we're starting with self-compassion. So it's not going to work if we're beating ourselves up when we don't do the thing.

Speaker 3 00:15:09 No, no, no, I.

Heather 00:15:10 Know you're much kinder than that.

Speaker 3 00:15:12 Right, right.

Adele 00:15:13 So it's, and it's helping people when, if they don't do it, help them, helping them sort of around those obstacles because those come up every step to.

Heather 00:15:24 Yeah, I can give you an example of that. You know, because fitness does not come easily to me, sort of gym sort of fitness does not come easily to me. It's not been part of my identity. So I've been working with the coach on on that. And what I discovered in terms of core beliefs that, it's vain to take care of yourself. It's from my family upbringing. And the other one that was really big is you're not allowed to. So trying to do those things and make the new habits. Brought up those sorts of beliefs and the feelings that went around them, which you can imagine and want to avoid like the plague. But it's been invaluable bringing all that out. And if those are the sorts of things we've got interfering with our relationship, they really need to come out.

Adele 00:16:14 I mean, Heather, you bring up such a good point, which is that, Whenever we aren't doing the thing that we say we want to do and we know is good for us, it's like we're self-sabotaging.

Adele 00:16:28 I guess you could call it there is, I would say almost surely some, some of these deep underlying subconscious beliefs about ourselves. So here we go back to the deep belief. Right. And so this happens a lot with my clients. If they aren't doing the they're saying, okay, well oh my gosh, I know this meditation thing is really going to help me. And by the way, they're short. It's not like a big time commitment. These recordings I'm sending are ten minutes. But I've heard a lot of people say things like, I just can't take the time, I'm too busy or, you know, I've, I and then underneath that. So, so what is that really about? Is it really that they actually don't have ten minutes. Is it something else. And usually there's something else like I don't deserve it, you know, it's a waste of time. I need to be working all the time. There are all kinds of things, but, I mean, really good point.

Adele 00:17:20 If people aren't following through that, there's there's a good reason for that.

Speaker 3 00:17:24 Yeah, yeah.

Heather 00:17:26 So have we touched all of the points in the sort of overview of how you work? Because I know we're going to go in deeper in, in subsequent podcast. Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:17:39 We are.

Adele 00:17:39 Well, you asked about the skills and I spent a long time on the self-compassion piece. So I'll just briefly touch on the other skills that I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 00:17:47 Thank you.

Adele 00:17:48 Yeah. So oh my gosh, there's so many. you know, I would say so. The second step in, in my, work, which is similar to conscious uncoupling, is the I'm actually trying to remember what I call it, my program. One of these beautiful words like unleash or, you know, something like that. And it's actually not coming to me right now, but it's it's it's essentially helping people take helping people with self-responsibility. Okay. So shifting out of that blame and into more of looking at how might I be at least partially responsible for this? And so the way I look at it is even being able to do that is a skill.

Adele 00:18:35 And, you know, I ask all the questions we learn and conscious uncoupling and then, you know, because I spend more time, I'm spending a month on each of my steps. There's a lot of time to really delve into that. and, and there ends up being some more tools that come in, come into play there too. and so I would say that a big skill that I am working on with people all throughout the whole course of my coaching is a skill around communication. And this isn't like something I do in one step. It's something I'm doing all along the way. And, I'm trying to think of how how to, like, concisely talk about that. what I discovered in doing my work is that in every single relationship I've ever been in myself or I've ever come across with anyone else. Our inability to communicate our feelings and our needs to another person respectfully, without blame, and how to go about getting our needs met. It's like something that like, it's a skill that we're almost all missing.

Speaker 3 00:19:48 Yes.

Adele 00:19:49 And without having that skill, relationships are incredibly difficult. And so for me, because it there's so much that goes into it. It's not just the words we use. It's first of all, we have to actually be able to identify what we are feeling and what we need before we can communicate that with another person. And I find that for a lot of people, women and men, but particularly men to generalize, usually don't have any clue what they're feeling and what they need. So I just start with that piece and we spend time just on identifying and becoming aware of it, and then we start adding in, well, how do I speak to another person? How do I make a request? How do I do this without blaming and shaming and all that stuff and just learning? I mean, I when I say just it doesn't mean that it's simple. It's not. It's complex. If we all learn how to communicate well from this deep place of self-compassion and being able to share without blaming like that in and of itself, takes people a very long way.

Speaker 3 00:20:56 Absolutely.

Adele 00:20:59 So and there are a lot of other things I'm helping people with along the way, but I would say that's that's a really essential, huge piece of it.

Heather 00:21:07 And what's around the back of this for me is the sense of making a win win, because so much of our communication from insecurity is about I've got to win. And for me to win, you have to lose. And that's just the road to hell for relationships.

Adele 00:21:25 Absolutely. In fact, I, I am now doing an intensive, what do you call it, training immersion. in, in nonviolent communication, which is the kind of communication I work with. And just last weekend we had a whole weekend long retreat, and we were practicing. I think what we're what she was calling, you know, the skill of interdependence. And so it's this idea, we even had a role play where one group of people we were imagining these people were neighbors, and one group had this big, beautiful tree in their backyard that was shading the both yards, and the other group wanted a garden and have the garden.

Adele 00:22:07 They had to remove the tree so you can see the conflict. And what we had to do was break into groups and, you know, sort of role play this whole thing. And with the end result being the two groups had to, look at it from a different perspective, this perspective of how can we all get what we need? And, and when you start looking at it that way, that it's possible for everyone to get what they need without having to trample on each other. It's it was amazing what happened, you know, and then we even talked about what would the world be like if we.

Speaker 3 00:22:42 All.

Adele 00:22:43 Approach things like this, right. Think think about how that could impact not only relationships, but your community and our whole world. If we're all looking at it from that perspective, it would be. It would make things very different.

Heather 00:22:58 Revolutionary, actually. On the quiet.

Speaker 3 00:23:01 Very much.

Heather 00:23:04 Well, thank you so much for today. So tell me where people can contact you, where they can find you on social media?

Speaker 3 00:23:14 Yeah.

Adele 00:23:14 My my website I can't talk. My website and my Instagram are very simple. They're both just my name. It's Adele. Adele, like the singer. Last name? Currency, urine. that's my Instagram handle at Adele. Karen. And my website is, Adele. karen.com.

Speaker 3 00:23:36 That's wonderful.

Heather 00:23:37 And they can contact you through either of those.

Adele 00:23:40 Absolutely.

Heather 00:23:41 Thank you so much. And watch out people for the subsequent ones.

Adele 00:23:46 Thank you Heather.

Heather 00:23:47 We'll go into much greater depth. Bye for now. Bye bye.