The Power Pod (00:00.248)
Hello everyone. So the news is out. The PWR's biggest signing USA sevens and Olympic medallist, Ilona Mar, will be on the bench to make her PWR debut for Bristol Bears. Well, on the one hand, perhaps it's a little strange that such a team game can be so excited about one individual. But hey, rugby has always talked about needing global stars to up its appeal. And women's rugby in particular has this huge year ahead with the biggest rugby World Cup ever.

on English shores from August, which unsurprisingly, Ilona would like a shot to play in. So stick with us on the PowerPod as we keep you informed as to how Ilona's getting on and of course with the rest of the league as well. Now, after such a bumper pack show this week, we thought it was only fair to share the full interviews and chats we had with our great guests.

So if you want to know all there is to know about refereeing advantage and hey, maybe we're welcoming a few extra transatlantic fans and a bit about how referees are selected, then first up we have our lovely chat with referee Sarah Cox. Following that we'll hear from Loughborough Lightning and England's Lily Ives' champion as we discuss their season so far and Lily's own journey as a player into 2025. And finally, with that news, Alonimar will be among the Bristol Matchday 23 on Sunday at Ashton Gate against the defending champions.

Well, can hear our chat with our head coach, Dave Ward, which was, of course, recorded earlier this week before that selection was made. Enjoy all three and we'll be back with your usual Powerpod episode next week. So first up, as promised, here's that chat with Sarah Cox. So, so, Coxie, thanks so much for joining us. Great to have you with us. So this bit about advantage then, I mean, I know I did my LRA 1, 2, 3 many, many years ago and there is...

broadly two types of advantage that Fed say a kind of knock on advantage, penalty advantage. Talk us through, how can you answer Ali's question for us? the technical terms are tactical and territorial. So yeah, so that's what really is the underpinning of advantage. But like you said, Nick, when you look at when we play advantage, it will be off a penalty or it will be something like a knock on. So when it comes to a knock on,

The Power Pod (02:15.703)
More often than not, that will be a little bit shorter in advantage. We will look at whether you've gained a tactical advantage from it or a territorial. So the territorial might be when you see someone kicks it. It might be that you spin a wide pass and then you make a break down the wing. That's that territorial where we're satisfied that you've gained enough territory that we can let that play through.

and that also applies to the penalty side of things as well. So again, if you do that crossfield kick, you gather the ball and you go in and score, or you gather a ball and you're a 10, 15 meters ahead of the mark of where the, penalty might've been. And it would be in a more advantageous place than say, if we gave you the option to kick to touch or kick, or if you're not in range of posts, then we'll let that advantage go and we say, fine, you've gained that advantage. the tactical side of things.

is more around have we allowed you the option to do as you wish, to play as you wish, to do anything you like with that ball. And that's when you tend to see again, slightly shorter advantages on those knock-ons where tactically, we'd say you've pretty much gone through the move, if you like, that you wanted to go through. No one's hindered you doing that. Let's play through and we can say that your advantage is over. You've still got possession of the ball. We can move the game on.

where it tends to be longer advantages and where people ask about that and where it gets a little bit more sticky is when you tend to be in and around the 22s. So can you get enough of that territorial advantage off a penalty advantage for us to be able to say that we've satisfied that and that you've satisfied that and you've been able to play in the way that you'd like to?

And when you sit inside those 22s, you've got the options to go for touch, you've got the options to go for posts, and then you've got the option to play that advantage through and see what happens. So that's what we're sort of weighing up constantly as the ball moves around. And once we're satisfied that, okay, that's happened, all of those, or a majority of those have been satisfied, we'll let that advantage go. But more often than not, when you sit inside a 22, you'll see that we'll come back for penalties.

The Power Pod (04:34.541)
And we'll come back for those ones where you say, okay, I don't think any of that has been satisfied. We'll allow you the option then because there's no advantage gained. it's tricky, isn't it? So I guess that's that feeling that the fans have. is, yeah. Where they're saying, okay, more so in that 22 as you're describing, well, it's likely to be more about how close to a scoring opportunity somebody gets that satisfies.

what you're talking about, a sort of territorial advantage. And I think, you know, certainly from when I was a kid to now, which is a of years, I think that knock on advantage used to be a lot longer, used to be a bit bigger, but actually I like the fact that the modern game now, it's pretty quick. If you've got a knock on advantage and you opt straight away within half a second to kick the ball away, a referee will largely say that's advantage over because you've been allowed to continue, like you say, Coxy, what you wanted to do.

Yeah, ultimately, that's what it comes down to. And we're in a phase at the moment with rugby where we want to keep it moving. We want to keep the momentum of games. So when it comes to a knock-on, if you give a team an advantage and they use that, why come back for something when we can keep everybody moving, we keep the game moving and everybody's satisfied that that's happened. The ones where we look at the penalty side of things, that's when it's more serious, if you like.

And in its rawest form, that's what we look at each time is how we can allow teams to do as they wish and gain exactly what it says on the tin, advantage. Yeah. And I guess coaches, players, what they want, it's the magic word, consistency, right? But it's so hard, isn't it, when that aspect is interpretation of whether that team has been allowed to play in their style, like Coxie is saying as well, which is again why I just put my hands up to referees.

the amount you are thinking constantly whilst play is happening, not just, you know, is there a rule being broken? But now I've got to try and think about is this team playing in the style that they would normally play? they getting the advantage they are like the tactical interpretation as well as the laws? Crazy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's mind boggling when you start digging down deep into it. Yes. And I think sometimes you do one, you do it, but no, that's...

The Power Pod (06:54.15)
In its rawest form, that's what you try and connect into. You try and connect into the game. You try and connect into how teams want to play the ball. And ultimately where you would say as a referee and as what's happening in this game, has that satisfied that tactical or territorial? If the answer is yes, you play through, but the penalty one tends to be where things get a little bit longer.

and they'll come back after what feels sometimes like quite a long time. So that's probably where the question comes from, because it seems like it's inconsistent when actually it's, it's probably not as inconsistent as people think. The parameters are inconsistent, but what they see might look inconsistent because it's different styles of play and different variables.

Yeah, exactly. There's so many different variables that you take into account that people don't realize. And if we, as referees were to referee the complete law book, we wouldn't have a law book. It would be an absolute nightmare. So, so what we do is, is we almost orchestrate within a game. And an advantage is one of those tools that we can do use to orchestrate within the game. And like we say, keep the momentum, keep the flow and allow the players to do as they wish. yeah. it's amazing.

And also, as you say, Coxie, where fans would not dare put themselves in terms of understanding actually the responsibility to not want to be seen almost, you know, to be invisible and allow the game to play is fascinating.

But look, new year and I think a few new things coming in and that people will have seen perhaps trialled in the autumn nations. I know Phil, you had a question that might be related to stuff that's coming I do. And this question, so I settled down with some of the family to watch the big game 16, the Harlequins game, which was awesome. And I've got some family members who don't really follow rugby that much. I know, crazy, they're Welsh, they don't follow rugby. I know. Disgraceful. kills me every year. So I make them watch it. But so one of my cousins, the number nine got tackled.

The Power Pod (08:55.187)
And she was straight up out of her seat. You can't touch the nine. You can't play the nine. I said, wait, what do you mean you can't play the nine? She's like, nines aren't allowed to be tackled. I said, a nine can be tackled. Of course it can, like any other player, there are rugby players. But she's heard the term, don't play the nine so much that now she actually thought if you played number nine, you never got tackled.

Would it? I'm sure there's a few nines out there that would quite like that. be fair, that would have been my perfect position if that was the case. Can we just put a bit of an explanation? Why do we hear the term don't play the nine and just for clarity, number nines can be tackled. Yeah, they're not quite the protected species that you think.

But there is some law coming in a little bit later on in January that probably does protect them a little bit more. But ultimately, it's anybody in that nine position. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the nine themselves. But yeah, you will hear referees don't say live on TV sometimes, don't play the nine. Ultimately, what you're saying is don't play someone without the ball.

so more often than not, find yourself in a situation where the nine's there, they've not picked the ball up and someone might lean over, grab. this is on like a ruck situation. So balls gone to the ground. it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So ultimately what you're doing is playing a player without the ball. so that's where you might hear that, that concept of, or that, that term, if you like, or don't play the nine. So what we're looking to do is, is make it fair game, if you like. So the nine has to have the ball in their hands and we have to.

to see that the ball is out and they're looking to play it effectively. So that's that again, in its raw simplest form, that's what we'll be looking at. And if some of those or majority of those are satisfied again, then you game on once the ball is out and the ball is in your hands and you're looking to play it, then that's it. You're game on really. So because you've got a noun on your back, you're not totally protected species. But once you have the ball in your hands and the ball is out of that ruck situation.

The Power Pod (11:06.291)
then you're fair game like anyone else. I think most nines also believe they've got their own hotline to the referee where they're allowed to discuss things, inform them of whatever's going on. Correct, yeah. We've got a live performance reviewer. that. And Coxy, look, you've had a great year. I was wondering whether yourself and Amy Barrett-Thoran

just have a regular supply of congratulations cards and you send her one. Congratulations, Amy, for doing the 39th test, the most of the women. Thank you, Coxie. Well done, Coxie. You've done the 40th test because you're both just at about the same level, aren't you? Yeah, that tells you how long we've been around for. yes. It's a great achievement, though. And how's your 2025 looking? I'm sure you're, you know, keen to be part of what will be the biggest Women's Rugby World Cup ever. Yeah, look, it's looking...

and hotting up at the moment. Just some of the appointments that are coming through that we're seeing at the moment. Six Nations, obviously. I think this, like you say, Nick, this World Cup is going to be the biggest that we've seen. So I'm really excited and hopefully I get the call up for it. But yeah, we'll see what happens. But like I say, the year is looking manic as it is, let alone then when you put up warm up games in and what have you.

No, I'm really excited for Can I just ask as well? Because in my head, like you're being selected, like a player, you're being selected for that big game. How does it happen? I mean, I guess it probably changes domestically to internationally, but is it a phone call? Is it an email? How do you find out what game you've got? We got a phone call last time. Yeah, so there's been in the past that you get an email.

But yeah, the last World Cup was a phone call from our manager. And yeah, she picked up the phone and said, call me. And I was like, Is that the one where you put the phone down and then scream? Yeah, yeah, of course. You've to be cool on the phone. You've got to be cool. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we'll see what happens. Hopefully I'll get that phone call. And you know the day, like are you all told on this day you will or won't get a call?

The Power Pod (13:25.927)
we're told a sort of timeframe that they're going to do the appointments. so we, we call them more appointments than selection. and then, yeah, so within that, they then encompass the selection into the World Cup side of stuff. yeah, well, we, know a time frame, but we don't know exactly when, when that's going to happen. Well, we wish you the very best of luck in the new year. and, and thanks so much for joining us, giving us a bit of clarity.

on all of that and yeah, we look forward to seeing you with the whistle through 2025. Thank you, Coxie. No, thank you very much. Take care. We loved hanging out with Coxie. A huge thanks to Sarah for those explanations and that little bit more information. Right, now it's a chance to catch up with Loughborough Lightning's second row and one cat red rose, Lily Ives-Campion. Well, Lily, how are you? How are you finding life at an up and down Loughborough Lightning this season?

Yeah, it's been, it's been a really, like I found it, it's been really fun. Like we've, as a group, we've been very connected and we're very strong. And I think that that's also really important that we're probably one the strongest groups we have been for a while. And I think that you can see that it's been a bit frustrating at times. We've come away from games, which we were well within grasp of winning. We've kind of let off a little bit in the last 10, 20 minutes. And I think that

We've taken a lot of key learnings away from that, which we then can implement into games, for example, like the game, Just Before Christmas, when we played sale, that we kind of clicked, came together. And I think that's what, but they're the performances that we can put out. It's just that we're taking us a bit too long. Well, it's taken us a bit too long to kind of get to that point. But I say that we are playing really well. I think that it's the players that we've got, what we're doing, our game plans at the moment, they're really working for us.

And I think that we're hopefully over the hump now so that we can kind solidify some performances coming up after Christmas. And we've got some, few big games coming up. And I think that's a really good opportunity for us to go in. I think, yeah, that's kind of what's really exciting about this block after Christmas. We've got some games that are going to be challenging, but some games also are winnable. So for us, it'll be...

The Power Pod (15:46.845)
kind of attacking those games so we can and see what we can do. And how was Christmas? you able to slightly indulge? Yeah, Christmas was great. think that, I think with the how the season has laid out, just to some time and see all my family at once was great because I've not seen them for a while. And yeah, I did help myself to a nice big roast dinner.

Excellent, quite right too. mean, did Christmas almost come at a bad time given that win against Sal Sharks, eight tries on the board and an opportunity to allow the kind of attacking game to click because it almost just like, it'd be nice if we were playing seven days later again. Yeah. Well, you could say that because I feel like that one more game after Christmas before Christmas, sorry, could have been like that could have been that. But I think that actually with with having a bit of a break, collecting ourselves, coming back together, reviewing the game when we get back.

Things like that, think that actually is probably quite important for us to have that time. I think that just with where the season is with being back to back, think having that time is going to be really important for us to grow as a group as well. Yeah. And how does it help the belief those sorts of results, know, albeit with due respect to South Sharks, it is a team that are towards the bottom end of the table. But ultimately, these are teams that you really need to make sure you're picking up.

these sorts of results against to, I guess, steal you for these days against the teams above you where results are a lot harder to come by this season? No, completely. think there's like, sailor, a really good team, especially that in a really good side at home. And I think that it's really important for us to use this result and kind of build that momentum now going forward that we've played, we can play like this, we continue to play like this. We can continue to use our game plan, which is working and things like this. And I think that

It's important that we reflect on that game well. And we see what worked, what didn't work, what we can improve on and to go to the next game. think that in terms of belief, we're very, I think that every single game we've shown points of excellence that we've played. And I think that's what's really important to us and what we keep highlighting every time we watch games back, we review, we sit in that meeting on Monday, post a game on Saturday. It's that there's some brilliant times. And I think that it's just how often can we do that. think it's...

The Power Pod (18:02.131)
the next point is like, how consistently can we do that? And how can we keep the momentum going? But yeah, on the belief side things like we fully believe in our team, each and every one of us believes in each other as well. And I think that's what's really important that we can be so connected as a group that we've just got to then implement that as we go. Yeah. And hope that those results will come ultimately. Who do you think is

is on fire at the minute among your teammates who you looking at when they get the ball you're going right this is we're going to mean business here. Well, without doubt, Chrissy, I think she is unbelievably quick and very jealous. She obviously when she gets hands on ball like she could she could go for miles. And I think that she's a really important asset to our team, especially to obviously inject that bit of pace into the team, especially as we've had a bit of an injury though.

I think she's been a really important player. think Lev, again, major ball carrier, major distributor, been on fire. She's a great player for bringing momentum to a team. Her knowledge as well and just her skill set is just world class. So she brings a lot to the team. I think also like within the forwards, Halle. Halle's been doing a really great job, been really consistent. She's been an absolute great player for us.

and Daisy as well. Two really consistent players every week. I think that they're, but players like that are really what create a team and really drive momentum within the team. It's just been good. Yeah. And you've been a consistent part of that second row for much of the season. How are you feeling about your game? It's, it's obviously a big year, 2025. There'll be plenty of people talking about it, particularly, you know, us and everyone else over the course of the next week or two. Where do you feel like you're at and, and, and what sort of conversations are you having in and around England perhaps as well?

I think that I, well, I've had a big, suppose the last 12 months, we were quite a big 12 months. I had a lot of development to do. And it's been really important for me then to all the development that I've been doing off field to have the opportunity to put it on field. And I think that we're in the position now where we're trying to translate that type of, translate that gym power, all that side of it onto the on pitch stuff, which

The Power Pod (20:23.827)
I'm seeing, which is working pretty well, but it's just now, I think for me, it's the consistency piece. think that like, how consistent can I be over these next few games into then help preparing our team and making our team as best as we can be. I think that's probably my biggest goal is just, I want to be consistent and I want to be like playing and being, performing against also the top sides in the team. And I think the team as a whole team, we believe in that. So I think that.

that also is a massive part of the game. yeah, but hold on, sorry. Sorry. You're right. But yeah, I think that for me is really the big bit. But yeah, in terms of with England and stuff, just kind of just keep like ticking away at things. Keep as like kind of just, just play my game and keep going really. And I think then we'll see, we'll see what happens as we go forward. But yeah, it's been quite a, it's been really fun season so far anyway.

Good. And as 2025 dawns then, you know, it's always these times for a little bit of reflection, a little bit of looking forward. Where do you want to see the PWR go? Where do you see this year for the women's game? Well, I think this year it's going to be massive. And I know we always talk about it. And I think it's always an underlying thing that's spoken about is that what this year is going to do for the league. I think that, like, there's no doubt in that. I think the league is going to absolutely

like go on a major trajectory. think hopefully due to the World Cup, the spectatorship goes up. I think which will really help every single team. And I also think the, like the, I think the level of the game will also really improve. think the more players are out playing internationally, playing other international teams, you can develop your own skillset and your knowledge, which you can then bring back to the club. I think that's really important. But I also think just the amount of girls that are going to get into the game.

like especially around the younger generation, what's it called? Like community side of it. think that you're gonna see that absolutely skyrocket. And I think that's also a really crucial part into developing. We can develop the need now, but if we completely improve community size of things, have a skyrocket amount of girls that are joining community, thinking about.

The Power Pod (22:47.091)
Well, by the time the following World Cups comes around, the amount of women and girls playing rugby will be massive. And I think then you might even see the implement like new leagues coming in, things like that, just so to try and like, counter all these girls that come in. And I think that's what's going to be really important as well. it'll also drive standards, won't it? And in that sense, I mean, it's been a league that's had lots of internationals in it. And it does feel like it swells with those internationals ahead of World Cup time, which I guess is, is the biggest compliment to the league in terms of their talent that comes in.

We know it's an English league. needs to develop those English qualified players for the betterment of the Red Roses. But how important do you think that mix of international stars is to sort of keeping the future of the PWR at the very peak? Because it just having the vast amount of internationals play just creates this like crazy standard of rugby. I think that's what's so important. That's why you see the league is so competitive this year. But those top four spots could move

at any point of which we've seen. And I think that that's with all these big signings, incentives coming in, it will only drive standards and will only improve the game. And I think that's what's really exciting because it's there's no clear who's where. And I think that because it's so competitive, that would just completely drive the standards and the level of the game that we're going to play. And the chance through Love Pro Lightning for you to continue to develop that because I know Nathan's talked about the sort of

I don't know whether it's quite the word, the word experiment is quite right, but actually, you know, the way he's been looking to develop each of you physically to see what you can bounce through from that sort of preseason block and into it. And actually, you know, if we're getting these players, a specific department, you know, fit in this area or strong in that area, how can that quickly bounce into the team? Is that something that you've been enjoying kind of investing in alongside the coaches? Yeah, completely. I think that for me, as well as being a forward,

being second row, it's really important. And I think that I love challenging myself in that area. I think which is kind of quite strange, but I love it. So, like, I've really enjoyed things like that. And I think the programs that they're implementing at the moment, especially throughout the whole squad, it's been you've seen so many benefits from it, especially with the, like the development side of the squad that we have. And I think that they've been targeted on like this type of momentum program piece of like

The Power Pod (25:11.185)
How can they become more powerful, stronger, things like this? And I think what I've seen from them, they've done this, they've been on this program for about 12 months now and how they're playing their physical stature, all things like this is absolutely like, it's gone up majorly. And I think that's also what's really important is that we're not just developing players who are playing every week. It's everyone and it's the whole 40 man squad that's getting developed. And I think then when the opportunity arises, it's

there's that opportunity for everyone. And finally, just on a side note around that physical development, I guess, that power game, we're seeing more and more in a really positive fashion, those role models and those female athletes across sport talk about enjoying being strong and physical. Do you sense that in those that are coming through, perhaps a little more in that development area, that self-conscious side, that perhaps shame about being big and strong,

and looking physical is beginning to diminish because there's a greater recognition that women athletes can and should be strong and powerful. And, know, that's a great thing. Yeah, I think so because I think when I see, when you see posts and you see people talking about things like this, there's so much positivity. And I think that it's really, it's really good to see that. And I think that people feeling that way is kind of like

me anyway, I don't see it as that much because in order to perform, you need to be strong and to also order to perform in rugby, you've got to have some level of baseline of being strong and things like this. And I think that that's really normal. And that's really been normalized. And I think that that's really important as well. So then people have to look up to these to these women. And instead of essentially like I was even me at one point, I was like, No, I don't want to, I don't want to look

like that, like, it's kind of scared me. Actually, I fell in love with gymming, that feeling of like growing that feeling of, like, the kind of the accomplishment of say, getting a new PB, things like this, to the point where like, I actually just love being in the gym. And I think that that's what's really important is that people recognize that and you can, and it's like some people I know, are unbelievably strong, but you just wouldn't tell. You just you just wouldn't be able to tell.

The Power Pod (27:37.442)
I think that's what's so important, that's what's so unique about the women's stature and the women's body is that you can be whatever, you can look like whatever, but as long as you're comfortable and happier than yourself, you can perform. And I think that's really important. Totally agree. Very well said. Well, it's been lovely chatting to you, Lily. And look, we hope that 2025 post that last game is the corner that likely need to turn into this next block of the season. We really appreciate your time. Thank you.

Thought Lily spoke so well there and really appreciate her time. Right, now then, our final interview. A chance to hear from Dave Ward, the head coach at Bristol Bears ahead of a huge game against the defending champions Gloucester-Harpry on Sunday at Ashton Gate. Hi Dave, how was Halley's second Christmas and your and Abbie's? Yeah, look, it probably was great. You know, it was fantastic. Halley...

Being a lot more vocal now, which is which is great. I'm not sure that's to be careful what you wish for scenario But she's a father's daughter then she really is she really is it's not quite calling the line out yet, but she's getting close But yeah, I think like, know, it was always tough off the back of that loss against Saracens It could have been a nicer Christmas, but all is not lost. We got a bonus point could have had to And then when the stat sheet came through the next day, it just made for difficult reading from a

from our perspective, because we absolutely dominated the game. The scrum decision where he's given against a hand at bottom and unfortunately didn't go our way, that was probably the turn of point of the game. that's what happened in those big games. And Saracens, you know, they weathered the storm, dealt with it well, and they came away with all five points. Yeah, a couple of turnovers in the 22. There's ambition, there's common sense. How do you work those out? Well, it's always the fine line, isn't it, Nick? Because we don't turn the ball over, we go the length and score, and everyone's talking about try the season.

We turned the ball over and everyone's like, well, actually Bristol should have kicked it that time. And the thing is, the space wasn't in the backfield, the space was on the front line. So we decided to run it out and as I said, but for a couple of handling errors or that ball that just goes behind, then maybe we would have been talking in a different guys now. And I think, like I said, we were pretty close to getting five points ourselves. We didn't get it. It's made the league difficult viewing heading into the new year.

The Power Pod (29:56.918)
But there's seven games now, to put it right, which is a lot of games are rugby between now and March. Yeah. When you're looking on from a coaching perspective into those sorts of moments on field, how many do you note down before you go, right, I've got to do a session on this? How many do you go, the players will have learned enough about that themselves for me to not need to do it? mean, that's also got to be a fine balance as well,

Yeah, one sometimes Nick. I'm like, right, we're going to do. Yeah, I like it. Certainly at the moment, think time is a great healer of anything, isn't it? After the game, I was actually furious with that scram decision. However, you get to put it into context. You watch the game back a couple more times. You see what we left out there and the way we actually played and the endeavor from the girls and the effort was probably some of the highest I've seen this season. So you can't be too...

quick to be like, right, we're to do this on the pitch. However, we're always looking to push ourselves. I don't think we've trained now in dry conditions. I think we're training in dry conditions once in the last 10, which is always difficult, always hard to get your accuracy and your timing. So I think, look, it's going to be cold this week, but it's looking to be dry. So we'll get an opportunity to go and be a bit more accurate and look, we're still going to play for mile 22 if that's where the space is. If Gloss is decided to stand 15 up, then we'll obviously kick it in behind and we'll take that territory off them as well.

Yeah, now, you know, that that position in the table might not have been the Christmas present that you wanted, but perhaps bears got their Christmas present a little earlier in the month. Has the eagle landed? When when is Ilona due? Yeah, so she's due on Wednesday, so New Year's Day, which I thought was a great commitment from her. Basically, completely avoiding New Year's Eve altogether. I think she's on a plane while she'll be celebrating the New Year. But I think that's that's credit to her and her attitude. And yeah, so she'll be she'll arrive. Obviously, she'll have a medical assessment.

She's done some bits where she can, like I said, in Vermont. And then we'll make an assessment for her going ahead and into the weekend. That'll be a late call either way, be honest with you, Nick. Like, obviously we'd love to get her involved and we probably need to get her involved with with the way the injuries are stacking up against us at the moment. However, we need to make sure the time is right and that she's, she's comfortable. We're comfortable with that as well. And as I said, a lot of T's to be crossed and I's to be dotted before all that happens. And I mean, you know, on that front, I mean, on the one hand,

The Power Pod (32:17.77)
This is professional, semi-professional on its way to professional sport in terms of where the PWR sits and the women's game currently. There are athletes that will be, you know, chewing your ear off to say, well, look, it's all very well and good that you want to give her five minutes at the end of the game if that ends up being what it is. But what about, you know, the effort that I put in week after week? And we all understand that. But then we've also all got to understand the marketing power and ability that there is in.

there being a record crowd down at Ashton Gate and the opportunity to, you know, perhaps put on this superstar for a few minutes. It's a tricky one to sort of keep everybody happy, isn't it? Yeah, it absolutely is. I suppose that the easiest thing for me is the rugby side of it. I mean, I can purely say it from a performance perspective, if Alona's fit and she's ready to go, is she going to help out the team this weekend? We're going to have to assess that Thursday and Friday and then make a rugby decision. You know, the one thing I can guarantee is she will be there on Sunday.

in what guys, as I said, I'm not too sure at the moment, but like for me, that's easy for the commercial and the other marketing teams is a bit more stressful, probably. But that's why I'm a rugby coach and not sitting in the high seats at Ashton Gate. It's probably not the ideal time to then be playing the defending champions, isn't it? Who seem to have sort of settled into their groove a little bit now after a bit of slow start. Yeah, it's one of those, again, you watch our game and you feel sorry for ourselves a little bit and then

get over it pretty quickly and then you go and watch XA versus Gloucester and you're like, okay, this is going to be interesting. So I think like said, is it the perfect time though, Nick? Is it the actual perfect time to play them? They've not, they've now lost that little bit of momentum they might've got in the XA game. We beat them four weeks ago. So it wasn't that long ago. We went up to Kingsoma and actually beat Gloucester. So I think they're a team that know a lot about us. We know a lot about them, but it's going to be as always a battle up front.

And then, like I said, depending on which back line and which combinations they pick, the same as us, who holds onto the ball. I'm sure Sean Lin will be having exactly the same conversations with his Kloster team, the team that holds onto the ball the best. And Kloster certainly did that against Exeter, will probably come out on top. Yeah. And I've described this season as those top five as a little bit being like musical chairs. No one really wants to be, you know, well, there's not going to be a fifth spot for someone, is there? How much at this stage, knowing we're going into this kind of, you know, New Year block, there's not

The Power Pod (34:39.98)
tons of the season left because the nature where it is, it's, it's already getting pretty tense in there, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it is and it isn't, I think. So because of the time scale, everything's like, my God, it's happening in February, actually, we played nine and we've still got seven left. So in that respect, we've just over halfway. So there's plenty of rugby to be played. But like you say, if you start to run our games, then you will be looking at that, that fifth, fourth, third, second, and be getting pretty nervous. And I think

From our perspective, it's very much still in our control. We don't even want to think about that at this stage. We've got to go and beat Gloucester. We've got Exeter to play twice. Again, you know, that game in hand doesn't really become a game in hand if you lose it. So I think that there's lots of things and permutations to go and let you say, if you start looking down the fixture list and all, they've got them, they've got them. The great thing is about this league this season that no one can actually predict it. You know, like every game within those top five or six, I'd say, there's

There's a team that's beating somebody. mean who predicted the Gloucester were going to go down and beat Exeter the way they did? Not many. And so from our perspective, we just got to make sure we come out right on those results. And obviously then, don't get a banana skin because the other thing is, say all Trail Finders, Loughborough, they're still very much in this league. They're not here to make up the numbers and eventually Loughborough are going to click. You just need to look at their team. Trail Finders, again, they've gone ahead in lots of games they've played.

when are they going to put their 80 minutes performance? We've still got to these teams. And obviously Leicester, mean, again, watching Leicester at the weekend, Meg Jones, they go 7-0 up. You're like, this could be a game on. And obviously then, Queens do what Queens do and pulled away. But all of a sudden, there's four teams below those top five that are looking for that upset. And that makes or breaks their season. I remember when we lost to Sale last game of season, Sale didn't really care about the last four games before that. The fact they beat us last game of season was huge confidence for them and obviously took them into their off season.

Yeah. And what about this crowd then that you're expecting at Ashton Gate, a chance to really hit the new year? Yeah, it's incredible. It's exactly what we want. We want all the eyes on it. It's a repeat of last year's final. It's two teams that very much need to win the game. And obviously the fact that Alona is going to be there, as I said, is amazing. And the numbers she's bringing to the game, think, like all credit to her, but also to the club in the way they've gone about it. It's going to be a cold one. It's three or four degrees. Don't worry, I texted Groundsman last night. He assured me there's under

The Power Pod (37:07.862)
the UnderSwirl heating at Ashton Gates working, so definitely on. It's just a part of, like I say, us putting on spectacle because we want those six, seven, 8,000 people to then quickly go to the ticket office and then buy their next ticket for the next game. And that's the crucial thing for us. I mean, credit to Queens as well, that 18,000 world record crowd. Did they cheat the system? Maybe a little bit. But that's part and parcel. I think, as I said, I...

I was part of that big game for a long time as a player and I absolutely loved it. And the fact that the women have evolved is again, huge credit to Queens on that. I think from our perspective, our standalone six, 7,000, I think that would be huge for us. Guess what? We put on some rugby and we go and win it. Again, like I said, those people that haven't been to rugby games before, all of a sudden they get the bug and they want to visit again.

Yeah, I was working on the idea that perhaps they play the first half of the women's game, then the first half of the men's game, then the second half of the women's game and the second half of the men's game. Because, know, give people a bit more interest, keep them staying around for longer. Or maybe we're going to have such a big year in the women's game that big game next year is going to have the men playing first and the women afterwards. know, probably... Well, someone's got to be first, Nick. Yeah. Someone's got to be first to do it. You know, I keep trying to convince things to swap their league fixtures for ours. you know...

Yeah, one day, one day someone's going to say, yeah, the women go first. But as I said, from that perspective, think, yeah, I think Queen's did a fantastic job. Yeah. And just finally, Dave, I mean, it might not be the topic of conversation over the Christmas dinner table between you and Abi, but let's imagine you're looking at 2025 as we tiptoe into this new year with your experience, you know, having been at Burs, you've extended your contract as head coach there. How do you see this next year? Do you think it will give us

the liftoff that a lot of people are talking about in terms of the recognition of women's rugby, particularly perhaps in this country? Yeah, it's a real tough one, Nick, because I feel like the liftoff has kind of already happened. I feel like we're at that stage now where we had to take the most of the flight, if that's the metaphor you want to use for it, because the World Cup in New Zealand, where they got 44,000 and I was there, lucky enough to be there in Eden Park, and then to come back and have the PWR then kick off what it is.

The Power Pod (39:23.138)
is fantastic. I think the product is there or thereabouts. People are genuinely coming now to watch women's rugby because they either prefer it or enjoy it just as much, which again is where we have to base everything. The product has to be as good as it's been and the skill levels have to be good as they are. And I'm loving the fact that the World Cup's in August and September. We should get some of the best rugby at some of the best grounds in the country. It's then how do we capitalise that and get instead of a hundred thousand

young girls playing rugby, we want 250,000 young girls playing rugby. And those are the real things because then guess what? The whole, it all pushed up, the quality pushes up and everything benefits. And look, I don't want to go into that big picture of, I want everyone playing sport, you know, and the huge thing for me would be, know, the burden it would take off the NHS, but that's a conversation for a whole other pod. But for me, rugby is one of those sports where you can look on the pitch, whatever shape, size you are, and find yourself.

And that's why I love it. And that's why I'll continue to sort of promote it and I want to be part of it. And so certainly, you know, with a young daughter or a young son, I mean, I always get a bit of stick saying, I've got a daughter. I'm always rugby coach. It doesn't matter if I've got a daughter or a son. I want them both to play rugby and I want both to enjoy it. Yeah, good stuff, Dave. Well, listen, happy new year. Best of luck for the game on Sunday. I'm looking forward to getting down to Ashden Gate, as I'm sure you would encourage plenty of other people to do. And yeah, we'll catch up soon. Yeah. Cheers, Nick. Thank you.