Narrator: This podcast is intended to support UK health

care professionals with education.

The information provided in this podcast is not a substitute for professional

medical advice or treatment, and patients are encouraged to consult

health care providers, including nurses, for any medical questions or concerns.

Hannah: Welcome to stoma and continence conversations from Coloplast Professional,

where healthcare professionals and experts by experience discuss the latest

hot topics in the worlds of stoma, continence care and specialist practice.

I'm Hannah Patterson.

I've worked in specialist care and I'm currently the ostomy care associate

education manager at Coloplast.

This time we are talking about relationships with a stoma.

Yvette: Communication is the most important thing.

Yes, your partner who doesn't have the stoma might feel uncomfortable

talking about these things.

Sophie: What's the point in investing so much time in someone keeping, I'd

say quite a big secret, that would be a big thing to keep from someone.

For them to then find out possibly in an intimate moment or just

later down the line, and then it could potentially ruin that whole

sort of foundation you've built.

Hannah: Today's episode, as we've said, is about relationships with a stoma.

It's nearly Valentine's Day, so it's the time of relationships,

time of love and all of that.

So who better to talk about relationships with a stoma?

Then some of our ambassadors, uh, you've met all three of these guys

before, but I will let them do a little brief introduction to themselves.

So I'm going to go ladies first, and I'm going to go Yvette first.

Yvette: Hi, I'm Yvette.

I have an ileostomy.

I've had my stoma for 11 years now due to ulcerative colitis.

Sophie: Lovely.

And Sophie?

Thanks, Hannah.

Hello, I'm Sophie and I've got an ileostomy II, again due to ulcerative

colitis, and I've had mine for four years.

And last but no, no means least,

Hannah: Steve.

Steve: Hello.

Uh, I've had my stoma since 2015 through, uh, ulcerative colitis.

Hannah: So, now, first question, ladies and lads, are we all

ready for Valentine's Day?

Steve: Always.

No.

Yvette: Every day's a day of love.

Ha, ha, ha.

Hannah: Now, so today's talk is about relationships with the stoma.

You guys are all at the point where you can remember relationships

and things like prior to stomas, which is quite interesting.

So you're looking at relationships from two different sides, and I know

I always look at my relationships almost in three levels now.

I look at mine Pre stoma, stoma, and pouch.

I've almost got three, three levels of relationship there.

Uh, cause the thing is with, especially with ulcerative colitis and Crohn's,

there's often a lengthy diagnosis process there, as we all know,

it's not an easy diagnosis point.

So thinking back to before there was health issues there, how would

you, uh, Celebrated Valentine's Day.

How would you have approached relationships?

Things like that.

So I'm going to come to you first, Yvette.

Yvette: I think pre bowel issues, it was, well, I, I was 19.

So not a huge amount of experience in the, uh, relationship and dating world.

But, um, it was exciting.

It was, it was really exciting.

Oh, you know, who might send me a Valentine's card?

Who, what might we do?

What might we get up to?

But then when the bowel stuff hit, that's when it goes.

A bit pear shaped.

Hannah: Yeah, absolutely.

Sophie, how about you?

Sort of pre We're going to, it's like pre BI, pre bowel issues.

Sophie: I think very similar to Yvette, but I did pre stoma,

I had years of bowel issues.

So I think actually my relationships have been impacted for as long as I can

remember because it was always that fear.

I know this sounds gross, but it's that fear of, am I going to poo myself when

we're like, you know, having a bit of fun?

It's like, it's just, it, yeah, my, it would always be in my mind.

So it just, if that's, if that's always at the back of

your mind, it can really affect relationships in that way, can't it?

But yeah, my bowel issues have been for as long as I can remember, so I can't really

compare brilliantly between the two.

Hannah: Yeah, so you were both quite, although you weren't young, you

were still young enough for it to impact relationships from that point.

And how about yourself, Steve?

Steve: Mine's a bit of an awkward one, this is, because before I had

any issues with my bowel, everything was fine, relationship was fine, but

um, the relationship went downhill when I got really poorly, so there

was no relationship there at all.

It was, uh, I don't, without going into details, it was not a very nice

time to be living in a house with someone that I didn't love, but you

know, when you've been with someone for that long, you can't really stay away.

Another life, you know, and being poorly was kind of like the norm, you know,

which is horrible when I think back how I am now compared to how I was then.

So, uh, this is a difficult one for me, that bit.

Hannah: Yeah, and I think a lot of, like, ill health terms, it

can put a strain on relationships because a relationship does change.

I went through that same experience myself.

I went through a marriage breakup when I, I say I went through like what I called

my little period of hell where I got my marriage broke up, I got diagnosed

with UC and got my own redundant from my job all in the space of four days.

I didn't really know which one I was going to have a meltdown about so I

decided just not to have a meltdown about any of them and kick myself at

the backside and got on with my life.

It's amazing how Oh, it's bowel issues can then impact further down the line.

It's not just your physical health, but actually it can

impact everything along the way.

Steve: My partner thought, because I was in the toilet that many times,

he thought I was either playing the field, I was seeing nurses because I

was at the hospital that many times.

He got to, you know, When you go to the toilet and then you, um, you

spend, I don't know, 20 minutes in there and then you come out and then

four minutes later you need it again.

So that's how bad it was.

It was horrific.

I was going to the loo 40, 50 times a day and that's coupled with someone

that doesn't trust you as well.

It's, it was just a, it was just a survival really.

There was no You know, romance.

Valentine's Day wasn't a thing back then.

Before that it was, but um, this is my, the bag that saved me from many things.

Hannah: And you mentioned about the lack of trust there and things like that, and

actually that sort of stress can really impact you when you've got your badge.

I know for me, I mean, we always joke about, and again Sophie, you said

about like, pooing yourself during the action, but people, even people

with normal, inverted commas, but I'll talk about having a nervous poo.

Don't they?

People go, oh, need a bit of a nervous poo.

Steve: It's known as the second brain, isn't it?

The stomach, you know, you get nervous when you've got something to do on

stage or, you know, in the public view, you know, you want a poo.

You think, oh no, you know, and a couple of stresses is

a massive um, deal with IBD.

You know, I've been convinced of this from, from really early on.

Hannah: Yeah, and that's exactly what, so the couple with the stress

of that within the relationship, it's no wonder you were at that point.

Sophie, I'm going to now come to you on the point that you said about nervousness.

Did you feel that actually then when you had your stomach, some of those nerves

were then taken away in an element?

Sophie: Yeah, definitely.

Cause I think that's like having a stoma and then obviously

the proctectomy surgery.

So obviously my whole bum was then gone.

So there was no risk of that.

So initially I was like, Oh, I'm safe.

You know, I'll be all right now.

But then actually, you know, For me, I still had that

thought in the back of my mind.

Well, what if I have a leak?

You know, it's then gone from having an accident pre stoma to then,

Oh, well, what if I have a leak?

When, you know, it's more how it impacts me, how I'd be humiliated.

For them, if that makes sense.

Like for me, I couldn't care less.

I've dealt with my own poo for so many years.

It's just like, it's like putting on a pair of shoes now.

It's just no issue, but it's, yeah, it's putting it on to your partner.

It's, it was just how I felt humiliated for him for if that was to happen.

But things went quite different for me after my proctectomy surgery.

So I was never told about the whole.

like sexual dysfunction or your uterus can collapse all that sort of stuff

and that has happened to me my uterus has completely collapsed so that's had

A massive impact on things as well.

So, yeah, it's not been an easy ride for so many years.

Literally.

Hannah: Excuse the pun there.

No, no, Yvette.

That's something you are really I always come to Yvette at this point

when it comes to sex, don't I, Yvette?

We need her to save the conversation.

Yvette is like the sex oracle when it comes to totally discussion.

So, anyone that has listened to a podcast previously will

know that this is Yvette's bag.

Again, excuse the pun.

This is your little, your soapbox, I suppose, really, isn't it, Yvette?

This sort of thing.

Yvette: Yes.

Um, I'm not quite sure how I've ended up here as I've been known as that because

it's, it's not something I've advertised.

I don't intend to do so.

Um, but yeah, sex in a relationship in any relationship and any loving

partnership is really, really important.

It isn't always the be all and end all, but it is really

important part of a relationship.

And if either party is uncomfortable or in pain or whatever, then is a little

wedge and if, if there isn't communication and there isn't, you know, if, if both

parties are not comfortable then those things can quite quickly eat away.

So, when I had my surgery in 2013, I was with my then husband.

And, you know, we get along now, we didn't do, but we do get along now and

I'm sure he won't mind me saying that.

He wasn't comfortable about the whole thing.

He wasn't comfortable about the stoma and all those kind of things, and he did

find it difficult to get his head round.

But, I think communication is the most important thing.

And yes, your partner who doesn't have the stoma might feel uncomfortable

talking about these things.

But, It's so important to just keep building those relationships to make

sure that you can, you can move forward.

I'm now in the fortunate position of my partner, my new partner, you

know, the marriage did break down.

The marriage probably broke down with, by a lot of things, but my bowel surgery

was one of the reasons it broke down.

When you go through life changing surgery like that, it does make you reevaluate.

What you're doing with your life and who you're spending your time

with and all those kind of things.

Like I said, fast forward and my, my current partner, he has a stoma

of his own and he has an ileostomy due to ulcerative colitis as well.

So those kind of concerns about Bags leaking, you know, can you see the bag?

It's out the window.

We're both the same, and that is, like I said, a very unique position to be in.

Hannah: Yeah, and this is where I'm going to almost come to Sophie and

Steve at this question here, because obviously when you, when you dated

Ollie, you knew he had a stoma at that point, so that wasn't ever really a

worry about approaching that as a topic.

Anything like that.

Sophie and Steve, how would you approach the subject of having

a stoma when it comes to dating?

Sophie, I'm going to come to you first with that one.

Sophie: You all know me.

I've got verbal diarrhea.

I can't keep, I'm an oversharer.

I can't keep anything to myself.

So I'm, I would just be very upfront, honest.

If someone can't accept you for the way you are, they're not worth it.

You know, you're better off finding that out in the really early days.

And moving along.

What's the point in investing so much time in someone keeping, to

me, I'd say quite a big secret.

Um, you know, it might not be for someone else, but for me that would be a big thing

to keep from someone and then for them to then find out possibly in an intimate

moment or just later down the line, and then it could potentially ruin that

whole sort of foundation you've built.

Don't accept that.

I just find that would just, that would just break me.

So yeah, I'm very, um, I'm very sort of open.

I do speak about everything.

So I would from the offset, not literally on the first date,

but like, Hey, I've a bag.

It wouldn't come across like that, but it would be an important factor.

I think it's like going into a relationship when you've already got

children, it's a topic that you've got to, you've got to raise it.

You've got to bring it up.

You've got to be able to discuss it.

You've got to see if you're both on the same level.

So, um, Yeah, I, it would be something broached in the early days for me.

And how about you,

Hannah: Steve?

Steve: The early days when I was putting the internet and dating online,

you know, I'd use it to my advantage.

It was almost like a bullshit filter, my stoma was.

You know, if I was at a bar and I was talking to a lady at a bar, and maybe

I'd buy a drink and we'd get chatting, and it's quite clear she likes me.

You know, you work all this out first and it isn't going to be long before I

mention my surgery and, and they're going to want to know what, what, what is a

stoma, what's ulcerative colitis, and I will show the bag as soon as I can.

That's how things used to be before, um, before COVID and you weren't allowed to

just go out and meet people like that.

But then when it comes to, um.

the apps, you know, Tinder and things like that.

I've, I've done a couple of different ways.

My original bio was pictures of myself and none of the, none of

the bad pictures of myself, but the bio would mention all certificates,

mention the stoma, but I'd find that I wouldn't get any, any hits at all.

So then I, I was a bit cleverer and put pictures up there,

but one of the pictures.

Was the purple wings.

I did, I did a catwalk and purple wings was quite clearly in the bash and everyone

has the option of googling things.

So straight away, it was, you know.

It was there, and, and then, so you get hits, and then you, then they'd find

out, and it wouldn't be long, you know, and some, some didn't bother, and some

did, some people would just, you'd see people for what they were straight away,

that's the way I, I kind of liked the fact that, uh, people were more honest.

If somebody just goes to you straight away, that's them being honest.

Hannah: Yep.

Steve: They're not stringing you along, they're telling you, no, it's not for me.

You know, and, and that'll do me.

I, I, I would much rather someone go, oh no, you know, or just, just sort of show

no interest at all from being really keen.

So, I don't know, I just, I found it much easier.

If I bought you a drink and then, and, and you're really friendly

and everything's going really well, then I mentioned the, the bag.

And, and she doesn't come out from the toilet.

Do you know what I mean?

It's kind of like, fair enough, no more drinks for you.

I found it really quite, quite, I use it to my advantage in that respect.

Hannah: Yeah, absolutely.

And I really love the fact that you said it can almost be used like a filter.

Steve: I stole that term from a lady called Jasmine Stasty.

She used to do, um, lingerie for, for us to mate.

She was in one of the Purple Wings original calendars that we did.

And she, she, I, I actually stole that.

I'm not gonna take that as my saying.

It is, it is a bullshit filter.

Straight away, people will show their cards as soon as you mention it.

Or they'll make their excuses and go.

Hannah: Uh, did you have any experience of dating with your stomach pre

you going out with Oli, Yvette?

Or was it literally that you and Oli just met and That was it.

Yvette: Um, so, we met through the support group that I set up.

So, no, is the answer to your question.

Hannah: I still think Yvette needs to set up a stoma dating service.

I've said this so many times before.

Well, you know.

Who knows?

Yvette: Never say never.

Hannah: Coloplast Professional offers a lot of educational

material for specialists, nurses and healthcare professionals.

Visit coloplastprofessional.

co.

uk to find out more.

So obviously we know about your current relationship status, so

Sophie, how would you class your current relationship status?

Sophie: Oh, it's that Facebook.

It's complicated.

No, I'm married.

I've been married.

We've been together since, I don't know, over 15 years.

We've been married since 2015.

Yeah, that's as far as it can go.

We, we, um, it's a love hate relationship.

Let's put it that way.

Hannah: I think that's marriage in general, isn't it?

Yeah,

Sophie: I do think it is.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's It's, we've definitely faced some very,

very challenging times and a big one of them was my health.

But you know, he was around before it, around during it and around after.

So I think that speaks volumes, doesn't it really?

Hannah: Absolutely.

And it's almost quite a rarity, I think, in a lot of cases.

And when you look around, there's a lot of pet relationships that do break

down as, you know, Steve spoke about earlier, Yvette, you spoke about.

I have the same thing that actually when it comes to not even necessarily

just the stoma, but the health implications that come alongside it.

So yeah, it's, it can be a rarity.

And how about.

You, Steve, how would you class your route?

So we've got Yvette is in a relationship.

Sophie, it's complicated.

Steve: Yeah, I'm, I'm in a relationship.

We've been together, um, over two years.

We, we see each other every other week.

And you know what, it's brilliant, and she's a remarkable woman.

When I think of what she went through, you shouldn't really like men anymore.

So the fact that I met her at this stage in my life is just perfect.

You know, so I can't, I can't fault the woman.

She's an absolute diamond.

Sophie: Well,

Steve: she's an ex nurse and she's, you know, she knows a lot about stuff,

sometimes too much, you know what I mean?

So she's been accepting from day one, really.

And she kind of said, you know, we've had the chat, like, okay, what

if I was to wake up in the night?

Because that's when leaks happen.

And, and you go, Oh no, and she said, I get up and I start playing

and I was like, no, you wouldn't.

You'd roll over and pretend he was asleep because this is what I want you to do.

I would deal with it because, because you know, it, it would, I would be horrified.

I would be horrified and I know he wouldn't, she wouldn't bat an

eyelid, but, but I'd rather do it myself because it's my mess.

Do you know what I mean?

I haven't had a late touch wood for, for ages.

I mean, yeah.

over a year easy, but um, she, she, she wouldn't bother her at all.

I'm not being so smart, probably get off on it.

Hannah: It's interesting.

You talk about that worry of leakage and it's something you mentioned earlier

as well, Sophie, that it's not actually sometimes that thing of leaking.

It's actually that fear of leakage.

That's the encompassing thing, isn't it?

It's, and this is where, how do you, is that saying that you don't

really worry about now that, because you and Nolly obviously being just

pees in a pod on that respect?

Is it like, well, if it happens, it happens.

It could be him the next night.

I don't know.

Yvette: I mean, you could probably do with asking him whether he worries

about the leaks or not, and whether I'm going to give him a telling off for

leaving his bag changed far too late.

Um, yeah, there's been a few three, four AM leakage on his part

when he'd gone to bed going, Oh, I probably should change my bag.

But you know, And then there we go, leak at three in the morning and I'm going

Hannah: told you so

Yvette: well told you so But yeah, I you know, he's going in the shower.

I'm changing the bed or Cleaning up or whatever needs happening.

So you still get that.

Oh god.

I can't believe that happened But because we are both in the same boat

It's just water off a duck's back.

We're both used to dealing with it.

There was one time where we both had a really bad upset stomach.

He was really poorly in bed.

There was one time where I was throwing up, emptying bag after bag after bag.

He couldn't move and get out of bed.

I was, you know, the sick both hat things that you get from the hospital.

I was passing him that to empty his bag into, flying

back to the toilet to be sick.

But it was just We just dealt with it because, what else can you do?

But yeah, we do, we do support each other with it and it is a bit much

like, oh yeah, another leak, oh well,

let's just get on with it.

Hannah: But That's love, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly.

And that's, again, you going back to Sophie, that we laugh and say like,

it's complicated, but Your husband has been there throughout your

whole journey, your whole journey.

And, in fact, you love saying that, Olly bag a bit late, but you two

are absolutely there for each other.

And Steve, again, you say you've met somebody that is so perfect for you.

Would you have met her without your stoma bag?

Possibly not.

Steve: No, probably not.

Hannah: And actually, all three of you have been actually, been able to

get yourselves into such a positive relationships because of your stoma.

Yvette, you're, you are just in that complete and utter

understanding relationship.

Sophie, you are in that, you know, no matter what he is

going to be there for you.

And Steve, you wouldn't even be in the position where you could find

somebody that you are so on the same wavelength with, without your

stoma because you'd have probably still been in the same relationship.

Steve: Absolutely right.

You know, having the bag.

I felt like a brand new person.

Everything became really easy.

I lived with my partner at the time because I was brought up in

children's homes, foster parents.

It was always, you know, never leave your kids, never leave your kids.

And leaving my kids was probably the best, the thing that I should have

done, you know, way before I did.

But it was actually being in hospital, you know, at death's door, that

everything became clear the next day.

And exactly what I had to do.

And, uh, you know, and everything has gone good since then.

There's been ups and downs and that, but, as far as my children

are concerned, I've got a fantastic relationship with them all.

And, and I see them regularly, so, I don't know, the bag changed everything for me.

Hannah: Yeah, and I can almost say, hear the nods of people with stoma surgery.

It's really interesting that, because people, and I think people that haven't

necessarily experienced stoma surgery, think of only the negative side of stoma.

It's not to say that having a stoma is all flowers and hearts and lovely, but

actually for a lot of people there's so much positivity and I just remember when

I had my stoma, wake up one morning and for once not being in pain and actually

not realising that for probably five, six years I'd woken up every day in pain and

it was almost like, I couldn't work it out initially what, what was different.

It was like, oh god yeah, things don't hurt anymore, I'm

not I'm not in pain anymore.

And, actually, yes, having a stoma is an impact on your

body image, things like that.

But, would I rather have felt a little bit different about my body

image or woken up in pain every day?

I know exactly which one I'd rather have coped with.

It's just lovely hearing the positivity around relationships here.

And I think that is Something that is a big concern for people with a stoma,

whether they be getting surgery, whether they're new to surgery, or even people

that are potentially established a long way down the line with a stoma and

are going back into the dating scene.

I think between you three guys there, you've kind of encompassed

all aspects of relationships there.

You've gone We've had Steve that's done the dating route.

We've had Sophie that's managed to work through a relationship.

Yvette that's, I don't know if there's anybody else like Yvette that's

going to have set up a group and basically found her other half through

setting up a local support group.

It's really nice that all three of you have found those perfect

relationships for you and what a lovely little message for Valentine's Day.

Thank you so much for joining me guys.

Once again, I couldn't do these sort of.

topics without you.

So thank you so much.

And I'm sure I'll have you all on again soon for another topic.

And for those listening, thank you very much.

And I'll see you on the next episode.

Thank you for listening.

To see more of the wide variety of education we offer, please

visit colourplusprofessional.

co.

uk.

See you next time.

Narrator: Stoma and Continence Conversations is a Vibrant Sound Media

production for Coloplast Professional.