S2E3 Final V2 ===

Music: [00:00:00] Clues are breaking! Clues are breaking!

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, hey dude! Hey, welcome. Welcome back. Okay, we just finished, uh, 103. Yep, 203. Yep, we just finished 203. Where a shitload happens.

Paul Adelstein: This is not a beer, you're gonna hear a sound, but it's actually It should

Sarah Wayne Callies: be a beer. It should be a beer. Oh, because we added something to our Season 2 drinking game. Which was Oh, we did?

Drink every time there's a train. Um, uh, and we have no guests this week. Partly Yes. Because. [00:01:00] Oh, I'm gonna do something stupid and cheesy. A real guest this week. Okay. Is Lance okay? I have so many Lance questions I wanna talk to you about Lance.

Paul Adelstein: Not this episode. We gotta get to the real lance stuff, right?

He's only intro been introduced. Okay. We're talking about

Sarah Wayne Callies: some of Lance. Um, okay. Okay. So

Paul Adelstein: that is an, that's a, just, it's interesting to watch how the DNA of the show. Which has changed in season two. Yeah. I mean, it's just so much broader. I mean, before, yes, they had all these different things, and you saw these, um, the motivations of each character and what was driving them, and it was usually some kind of enterocene prison stuff going on.

Enterocene, by the way. Very

Sarah Wayne Callies: impressive word.

Paul Adelstein: Thank you. And now, it's, I mean, yes, you have Maricruz and you have, uh, Maricruz family and stuff, but like, They're all out on these adventures in the world and they're [00:02:00] going like this and you have very much of the sense that they're all going to be Somehow coming back together, but it's it resembles season one in a lot of ways But it's just such a broader backdrop, I guess.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and it's cool because the family motivation I mean it was always there for Sucre and C-Note, but to see It feels so much more tangible. It feels like Michael got his family, right? Like he and Link are actually together. And there was a lot of Sucre and Sinot, which partly I love because I love the women in their lives, and they're such amazing actors.

Um, but also, no lane. So there was no tweener. We still haven't seen Haywire since he pedaled off on a bike. And, and no T-Bag. And no T-Bag! Which is really interesting. Um, everybody's out in the wind, everybody's out in the wind.

Paul Adelstein: Also, can I just say, I, I just from a, um, personal experience level, I remember getting to Dallas in such a hurry and pre production and then I'm like, wait a [00:03:00] minute, I'm in one scene in the first three episodes.

You're in three.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. And all of those, I don't

Paul Adelstein: remember having all that downtime.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I do. I do. I, because You're

Paul Adelstein: like, why did I hustle my ass down here? Well, thankfully,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, I mean, unlike you, right, like, I was married by then and Josh came with me. And so we were just like, all right, well, let's get to know Dallas a little bit.

And um Right, yeah. And there was fun stuff. Did you ever go to Schlitterbahn? I just like saying it. Excuse me? I know. Schlitterbahn. Schlitterbahn is, it's one of those places, um, in like, hill country Uh huh. In Texas, where You can go rafting. But like, it's the wildest thing. It's in New Braunfels, I believe.

It's an entire river that comes out of the ground fully formed. So it's not like a little trickle that becomes a river. It's like there's a hole in the ground.

Paul Adelstein: Whoa!

Sarah Wayne Callies: And a whole river comes out of it. So we went down, and you just like, you park [00:04:00] your car, and you, They give you a tube and you tube down the river and when by the time you're done, you know, you've got your like little floating cooler of whatever you're bringing, and then they bust you back.

It is so much fun. So that's basically what I was doing for the seven days an episode I wasn't shooting.

Paul Adelstein: It was great. It

Sarah Wayne Callies: was great.

Paul Adelstein: I don't remember what I was doing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: For now, you want to calisthene? Should we calisthene and like get ourselves started? Let's talk about the

Paul Adelstein: Calistein index for episode two.

Oh, three. Season two, episode three, which

Sarah Wayne Callies: was called scan, right? So yeah, episode two or three was it was titled scan premiered on September 4th, 2006, directed by Brian Spicer, who did a killer job. And you great job. You mentioned this when we were doing the rewatch. I actually don't have strong memories of him.

I don't

Paul Adelstein: either.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But he clearly is fantastic. It was written by Zach Estrin. And if this is your, dear listeners, first season listening to our podcast. Briefly, [00:05:00] Zach passed away quite unexpectedly a couple of years ago. We did an episode at the end of last season, which was called Remembering Zach Estrin. Um, Inviting you to give it a listen.

He was an extraordinary person and everybody had wonderful things to say about him. Um, so this wonderful episode he wrote, which was just so fantastic. So episode delivered 9. 29 live viewers in the 8 p. m. time slot. I think that's up from last week. It

Paul Adelstein: seems

Sarah Wayne Callies: so, yes. Against reruns of Wife Swap on ABC and Two and a Half Men on CBS.

Not to be confused with Two and a Half Wife Swaps, which is a totally different show.

Paul Adelstein: Right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Also, wife swapping

Paul Adelstein: your men. Swapping two and a half.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We'll work on that. We'll workshop it. Yeah. Um, on NBC, they were doing original programming, and I didn't know this until I did the, this thing for this episode, and now I'm dying to see it.

It's a special called Different Strokes Behind the Camera, the unauthorized story

Paul Adelstein: of

Sarah Wayne Callies: different strokes. Oh, no. I mean, I don't [00:06:00] know how that didn't win the night. But anyway.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, to recap the show, Mahone zeroes in on Michael Link's car, which was towed to a Chicago lot. But Michael gets there first.

Unfortunately for the brothers, the backpack containing their fake IDs is not in the vehicle. Elsewhere, Sara is released from the hospital. But that's not necessarily good news, especially after a difficult meeting with her father, the governor. I was really up in a dick

Sarah Wayne Callies: about it.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. She goes to rehab where Kellerman introduces himself under a different name.

Lance Sucre and C-Note are determined to get to their loved ones no matter what. And Sucre learns that Maricruz is going to marry Hector in Vegas. In Vegas. , as he says. As, as Sucre says, the, the city Beek and Gary go in a bounding honey business together and they encountered Nika Volek, Michael's legal

Sarah Wayne Callies: wife.

Small note, because the recap for this show was a little bit of a weird one. I had to do some editing. Um, I don't think Sara goes to rehab right. I think she's at a meeting. I think she's living

Paul Adelstein: a free [00:07:00] life and not that it matters that much. Um, okay. Pop

Sarah Wayne Callies: culture at the time on the very day this episode aired.

September 4th, 2006, Beyoncé released her second solo album titled B Day, selling over half a million copies in the first week and debuting at number one on the U. S. Billboard 200. Naturally, the album would go on to win the Grammy for Best Contemporary R& B. Also, on the same day, Steve Irwin, better known as the Crocodile Hunter, died.

From an injury from a stingray while filming a documentary in the Great Barrier Reef. Um, I remember that like hit me hard.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, in world events, a piece of good news, Katie Couric made history this week as the first female solo anchor of a network evening news broadcast on CBS. And in heartbreaking news, September 26th was the last known sighting of the black rhinoceros seen in Cameroon's northern province.

The species was officially declared extinct. [00:08:00] in 2011. Now our intern is making us cry on camera.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah,

Paul Adelstein: this, that's really, we

Sarah Wayne Callies: have a lovely intern who puts these together for us and, okay, yeah, that's heartbreaking.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, let's uh, move on to less heartbreaking things. We'll be right back after this to talk about it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, so we're back. Um,

I want to start talking about Lance. I know that there's not a lot of Lance in this episode. We just discover that he exists as a persona. Um, but my question, like, because we've actually never talked about this, I don't think. Did anybody come to you and say, we're going to do a character for Kellerman?

Do you have any thoughts? Or did they, like, did they deliver Lance fully baked? To you, what was your input level?

Paul Adelstein: Um, I don't remember there I remember there being a lot of conversations about Kellerman stuff and about [00:09:00] Kellerman motivational stuff. But in terms of like Owen Krivecki and Lance, in terms of characters and characterization, I remember there being no Discussion about that whatsoever

Sarah Wayne Callies: like it showed up on the page and you're like, okay,

Paul Adelstein: I'm a yeah I mean, I think that there was a pre season Conversation or certainly pre episode conversation either with Paul or Matt Uh, saying, Hey, we're doing this fun thing where you're going to, you know, you're going to track Sara by pretending to be a civilian and you're going to befriend her.

Um, and I don't remember if Lance being gay was something I knew right away or if it wasn't until it came up in the, in the episode when I'm in your apartment where he's trying to put her at ease.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It felt like, I remember shooting that scene and I remember getting the script going, Oh. And it almost felt like Kellerman is laying the track in front of a moving train.

And that maybe the writers kind of did too. Like they got into that moment and were like, He's gotta be gay, [00:10:00] or this is

Paul Adelstein: really creepy. Right, or it makes it too creepy. Yeah. And for the audience's perspective, it makes him, the more credible he seems as a normal human, the more threatening I think he becomes to Sara, because you're like, Oh, I'd fall for that.

Music: So the thing

Paul Adelstein: that I always, you know, in that Meisner way, the thing I was always thinking about as an actor, which I think was, would be effective for anybody even pretending to be another human and trying to fool somebody is how's this making you feel like what's going to make her the most comfortable, what's going to let, what's going to let her be comfortable enough to let me in and tell me things, let me into her apartment.

So it was all about not being threatening, being friendly and doing whatever I needed to do. To, you know, be less color miney, in a way.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, you know, I hadn't thought about this until we were just re watching it, but in a lot of ways, the way you played Lance protected Sara as a character. Which is to say, like, if you [00:11:00] do some big caricature that the audience is like, oh my god, and it's a bit of a groaner or an eye roll Whoa, by the way, I think my camera just reframed itself.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, you could, there's a setting, I'll teach you afterwards how to Let's

Sarah Wayne Callies: shut that off. That was so weird. It like, zoomed in. Yeah,

Paul Adelstein: mine was doing it originally. You got it, you'll Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: please, camera, if you're AI, please don't do that again. Back out. Anyway. Um, in making Lance so credible You don't make Sara look stupid.

And there are so many traps for the characterization of Lance that then make it look like, what the hell is wrong with her?

Paul Adelstein: Right. Yeah, she's a, makes her a fool.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. Right, right, right. And I, you, you, you took care of both of us, um, that way, which is kind of, uh, you know, not surprising, but also.

Paul Adelstein: Well, it was great.

It was a great, uh, it was a great, that whole season was so fun. I got, I got to do so. It's really following you around, man. I sneezed and it backed up. I liked it. I'm just, now I'm just picturing [00:12:00] that there's a camera person there.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Just like This is my camera operator, Lance. Yeah,

Paul Adelstein: and there's more Lance to talk about later, I think.

Oh, for sure. They let me, they let us go a little bit. I mean, it was so different than season one in that there was Yeah, the scene, the scene work is, is, you know, it went, uh, all the scenes I was playing went from a very clear, like, uh, practical objective of getting a piece of information or killing someone or threatening someone to a kind of human interaction at a, at a, at a much lower, I don't want to say lower stakes way, but, um, less fraught way, like subtler, subtler human interaction where there's not a power dynamic.

Yeah. You have

Sarah Wayne Callies: to use a totally different skill set to get what you want.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. And the goal is different, right? The goal is trust, intimacy, however you want to put it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Speaking of new [00:13:00] characters, we have two new characters in this episode. And as I was watching, I kind of remembered a little bit of Inside Baseball.

They sort of show up out of nowhere. So both Lang and Wheeler were new characters.

Paul Adelstein: Lang is Barbra Eve Harris?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Lange is Barbara Eve Harris, who, uh, a couple of years later, I produced and starred in a pilot for the CBC, which turned out not to be very good, but we hired Barbara to be my boss because she's Canadian and such a fantastic actor.

Um, and I really, really enjoyed working with her again. She's really wonderful. Um, But I remember it being, like, one of those kind of crazy Hollywood, like, for whatever reason, the two actors, the two characters who had been kind of Mahone's numbers two and three in episodes one and two, for whatever reason, I don't know if they were on a different show and not available or if the network didn't particularly like their reads or whatever it was, it [00:14:00] was just like, They're gone.

Episode. They're gone. And there's two more people. And, um, I remember that happening and I remember becoming aware because this was early in my career of just like, Oh, a lot of people watch these dailies. A lot of people are weighing in on. I like this. I don't like that. I want more of this. I want less of that.

Paul Adelstein: And, and as, uh, we've, we've talked about how television has changed so much. There is kind of week to week input as opposed to shooting an entire. Yep. Season in a can, kind of, with, with minimal input, like there was a kind of deciding on the go. Ah, that may still apply. Anyway. Yes. But a very interesting, and with no explanation.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, none. Just, they're gone. Yeah. These two are back. Yeah. Um, and, you know, just like, I think I said it on the last episode, but just to have it said, like, Catherine Willis is a terrific [00:15:00] actor. Um, and so. You know, if it had to do with someone's opinion of her performance, that was a limited opinion about a limited performance.

Wait, who

Paul Adelstein: did Catherine Wheeler play?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Catherine played the agent that basically Felicia Replaces. She was the, the female agent in the first two episodes. Um, who was a, was a local. Um, and again, and I worked with her later on long road home and she's, she's outstanding. But I remembered watching her the first two episodes and I was like, wait a minute.

How long was she on the show? And then we got to this one. I was like, Oh, that's right. There were overnight executions and you're just like, okay, well. Now we're doing that. Um,

Paul Adelstein: can we talk about the scene with, uh, your, your father with Sara and the governor?

Sarah Wayne Callies: R. I. P. John Hurd.

Paul Adelstein: R. I. P. John Hurd. Um, yeah, we can.

Really wonderful actor and a very nice guy. He's

Sarah Wayne Callies: so good. Did you enjoy working with him? He's so good. I loved working with him. Because working with him was effortless. You know what I mean? Like, it's the, it's the best kind of work where you're just like, well, [00:16:00] as long as I know my lines. Yes. All I have to do is say them in the right order.

And the bad

Paul Adelstein: guy from Big.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And the bad guy from Big.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, you guys have that seems really beautiful and you, I mean, it must be so tempting, especially like both on the page, but also then just the situation to you underplayed it so beautifully, I would think there's certain pitfalls and scenes like that, which is, you know, you're not getting a lot of screen time.

There's this emotional thing where you've been busted and you're confronting your father and you know, all the backstory and you want to just. Do all the acting all the backstorying and then at the same time That's what also say you haven't worked in four months, right? It's like you're so rusty you've moved Well, even rusty you're just like, you know champing at the bit.

It's like let's go you You've like, you know, you're like let me out of it. Let me put me in the game Like it's not like oh, I have four scenes today. I have three scenes [00:17:00] tomorrow. I'm You're like, okay, I'm, I got all this time to gear up and, and anyway, what I'm saying is that you fell into none of those traps and also the work is just beautiful.

It's so subtle and you, and really what's great. And this show really every show needs, but this show really needs because there's with these individual family storylines.

Music: There's

Paul Adelstein: all this story informing what's going on that we don't see, we only hear about. And so you just have to buy this parental dynamic and you do.

You get the like, whatever, it's go to hell dad, the like, he's going to let you rot there. Like it's underplayed by both of you, which makes it land harder because you think this is a conversation they've had in one way or another

Sarah Wayne Callies: over 20 years. And over, you know, it's a lot of what you said is really interesting, especially at that point in my career, my [00:18:00] Um, I don't remember what it was, but I remember seeing something, a few things on television just growing up and just feeling nauseated at the amount of acting that was happening.

And all that mattered to me was that I not do that. Not all that mattered to me, but like that was such a central driver. I remember several times in season two. like the direction that I would get when I got direction, which sometimes you were just like on a schedule and you didn't get any, was, can we see a little more?

Um, and I remember shooting this stuff in the early, the early parts of season two. And I remember internally just feeling really numb. You know what I mean? And I don't know how much of that was, I just moved to Dallas. I'm discovering that like Dallas and I do not get along well. Um, just feeling kind of weird and alienated generally, but also very, [00:19:00] like, but it all felt like the character just like that.

And you didn't push

Paul Adelstein: against it. I mean, I think the impressive part is What did I do? The impressive thing there is that you just did it. Um, you, you just feel so present and John Hurd does too.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He's so good. I mean, he's so good. Like, you can be present with him. And I think that's the thing, like a really good actor, right?

Is someone that you can be present with because you don't have to be like, to put it the other way, when someone isn't quite doing their work. You

Paul Adelstein: have to self generate as we call it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You have, yeah, you've got to like imagine what a good performance would be like. Not to be rude, but that's, nobody ever had to do that before.

Um,

Paul Adelstein: um. As Judith Light said, your job is not to act, it's to be.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Listen, just listen. Um. Yeah. Following up. So we were talking, uh, during the re watch. Dee Dee Franklin, who plays C Note's daughter. [00:20:00] The whole family is warrior actors. I mean, like, all of them are amazing. But we were wondering who she is and where she is now, because she would probably be nearly 30.

Because this is 20, well, 19 years ago now, right? Um, So her name, I guess, is Helena Cleavorn, and at least according to IMDB, this is the only acting she ever did. Maybe she is now working as an aerospace engineer or something. I don't know. But, um, if you know Helena Cleavorn, or if you are Helena Cleavorn, and you know what became of her, or maybe, look, maybe she's a huge Broadway star and she, like, did nothing but, um, theater ever since.

But she was wonderful, looked so much like the woman playing her mom. Yeah. It's wild. Interesting. Great casting. Um,

Paul Adelstein: yeah, that family dynamic is really wonderful and just gets more and more heartbreaking.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, I, when he was like, are you [00:21:00] keeping your appetite up? Yeah,

Paul Adelstein: something's coming.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Something in the pit of my stomach was like, oh this gets bad.

I forgot all about this and it gets bad. Um, I wanted to

Paul Adelstein: mention that the nurse in the scene.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, when I'm checking out, right? Checking out of the hospital. Right before they arrest me.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, who is she? Uh, she's a triple Emmy nominated. She may have won for Fargo. She was like the female lead in Fargo season one.

Amazing. Oh, that's her? Oh my god, she's amazing. She

Sarah Wayne Callies: was on that

Paul Adelstein: show. She was like the lead of a sitcom on CBS2. Steve Walters, who's another actor that I met. Um, on prison break season two, who was part of this Dallas theater center, uh, kind of group of actors. And I think they had a company. I can't remember.

Alice was part of it. [00:22:00] Steve was part of it. Um, a lot of the Friday night lights actors were part of it. Like the locals, um, Derek Phillips, Stacy Rostano, um. And I met Allison and then I remember her being like, I'm moving to Chicago. Can you Was she local? To Dallas? She was local to Dallas. Um, I think they all went to SMU.

Oh, wow. And then she moved to Chicago and I, I think I ended, I think I helped her get an agent and I think that agent ended up helping her get Fargo. So I just take Full credit. Yep. I still

Sarah Wayne Callies: haven't

Paul Adelstein: received any checks, but

Sarah Wayne Callies: You deserve an Emmy for casting, actually. Um, yeah, yeah. Uh, by the way, is it, that's great.

I think there's something, what's really cool when you're in the business long enough is you have those moments where you're like, oh, this is, this person's for real. And every now and again, you've got the opportunity to like, Like, I, it's my favorite thing on the directing side. Um, I had an actor who was the third or fourth choice for the role.[00:23:00]

Uh, other people weren't available. And I was, I'll be honest, nervous a little bit about them. And they gave such an amazing performance that like, I called the casting director. And I was like, by the way, they crushed it. The network is thrilled. The studio is thrilled. And they were like, Great. I'll take a note.

I'll bring them in, you know, and it's like that's cool because so many people have done that for us over the course of our lives. Did your light just fall down? No, second

Paul Adelstein: time today.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Up, up, up, up, up, up. You need sunglasses, like Dom had in the car.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, we can talk about sunglasses. Um, I love that you said, um, that the car is the tattoo of season But also now the car is blown up. Oh, Michael's car. The car is now blown up.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But the car had surprise body parts in it. Can we talk about that?

Like,

Paul Adelstein: how were they preserved? [00:24:00] I guess they wouldn't need to be.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, no, because if they're too decomposed, I think the question is when did the body parts get put into them? Because they were sealed. But obviously he didn't leave them in there.

Paul Adelstein: No, I think he did. Nine months or three months ago? Also, it's like, story wise, it's like three months.

Right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But still, three

Paul Adelstein: months of blood. Yeah, it would decompose, but if you're gonna blow it up anyway, there's gonna be DNA. Yeah, and I guess if it's,

Sarah Wayne Callies: and I guess if it's sealed. Ugh. Yeah, I um, I don't remember a scene. P. S. I have these moments all the time while we're doing this rewatch, and I'm like, you know, fans are probably gonna be like, you dummy, it's three episodes now, from now, that we find out that he whatever, like.

Oh. Uh, so I apologize to fans who know the show better than we do. That's Um, but I don't have a memory of a [00:25:00] conversation with someone who's like, do you remember when I brought you body parts and I sold them to you? For who? In my mind, they're sylvanian. Drac. It's Dracula. Drac. Sylvanian. Yeah. Absolutely.

By the way, I'm Transylvanian. So this is me. This is me dogging on my own people. Here. In what? In, in,

Paul Adelstein: in, what do they call it? Not in crowd joke. Um, in group Joke. In group. Joke in the salt. An in group joke.

Sarah Wayne Callies: This is what we vampires say to each other all the time. Um.

Paul Adelstein: Can I?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. So, yeah. Please. I was moving along.

Paul Adelstein: Me move. Uh, is that your first, was that your first perp walk?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes, I will. On the show it's my first perp walk. No.

Paul Adelstein: Well, not in real, I'm not talking about life, I'm talking about acting.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, it wasn't my first acting perp walk because I did an episode of L. A. Dragnet starring Ethan Embry and Oh my god, I can't believe I just forgot his name.

Ethan Embry and, um, [00:26:00] He's such a famous actor. Wait, I

Paul Adelstein: always confuse Ethan Embry with Ethan, um, Not Hawk.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So, the dad in, Who's the dad in Married with Children? Ed O'Neill. Yes, so it was starring Ed O'Neill and Ethan Embry and now I feel terrible because Ed could not have been nicer. I, uh, I got perp walked.

It was actually, it was a wild audition. I was in LA for the first time in my life. I was testing for the Tarzan pilot. My agent called me and was like, they're casting this episode of Dick Wolf's new show. They're looking for the, you know, cronel of the week or whatever. The audition's tomorrow morning. I was like, sure.

So it's my first audition in LA. I go in. It's Juan Campanella.

Sarah (2): I go in. It's Juan

Sarah Wayne Callies: Campanella. Who had not yet won his Academy Award for The Secrets in Their Eyes, but Uh, years later, when I was read the colony pilot and was like, I have to be a part of this. And they said, we don't [00:27:00] want you to even audition.

We won't see anyone from walking dead for this because we want them to be totally different shows. I was able to secretly tape something and send it to Juan and who was directing that pilot. And that was the reason I think I got that pilot because Juan's like, no, I've worked with her. So it's that one of those.

Anyway, so I was perp walked there, but

Paul Adelstein: just like you were saying before, like you work with these people and these relationships can come back around.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. And all of a sudden you're like, now he's got an Oscar. Um, so perp walking, but there's so much more of it that happens in season two. And did they actually, do

Paul Adelstein: you remember, did they actually cuff you?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't remember. I don't remember. It wouldn't have bothered me if they had, you know, like, I don't feel claustrophobic about that kind of thing. I probably back then would have been like, just do it for real. Do you know what I mean? Like that? The idea [00:28:00] of the camera, where are the cameras above it? I was like, none of that means anything to me.

Just do it for real. Um, there was an enormous amount of car vehicle stuff in this between Sucre and the motorcycle cop and The Boys and Mahal. It's a lot of shooting. Yeah. In cars. Because you got, you shoot one direction then you got to back up. Or sometimes I would think maybe in Texas you don't

Paul Adelstein: need to.

Cause it's just a lot of Prairie's Prairie in the background. But it's a challenge, it can be a challenging way to shoot. Um,

Sarah Wayne Callies: Especially because you've got to have the air conditioning off for sound. And it's 98 degrees Fahrenheit. Which brings us to a sunglasses question. Although, yeah, I love shooting with sunglasses.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, a lot of times they really don't like it. I remember I had to fight for it in season one and then it became kind of a big part of my character. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It did. It did. Um, I got in trouble once for allowing an actor to wear sunglasses in a [00:29:00] scene. And they were like, he tries to do this every episode. We should have told you in prep that you have to be aware of this.

But, you know, they don't, they don't like it. And I was like, Oh, I'm super sorry. I

Paul Adelstein: think it's, I think it's cool. I get why they, I get why. I mean, I also think that things have changed. Yeah, anyway, things have changed so much and in how things are shot a lot a shot, you know Mm hmm. You could still get a sense of somebody without having to be up in their eyes the whole time.

Mm

Music: hmm

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, and it I I've always been a fan that withholding a gaze from the audience and then landing it is powerful and interesting, whereas you mean

Paul Adelstein: the old Caruso

Sarah Wayne Callies: even without sunglasses, just like I've never understood there is, there is often an instinct that. [00:30:00] Shows up in television actors who've been at it for a while to look at whoever they're talking to and it drives me Yeah, a little bit nuts Because behave in real life. Yeah, people don't do that. People don't do that It's really weird and it always feels fall.

They all

Paul Adelstein: know often That was the way you were directed for I mean at the beginning of my career certainly certainly and also absolutely The technology has changed our TVs like even when we started TVs were small

Sarah Wayne Callies: and deep and they were the opposite of flat screen meaning everything

Paul Adelstein: shot everything really had to play in a close everything.

Oh my God, everything really had to play in a close up. You can see as I talk about technical things, how good I am technically everything had to play in close up because otherwise you couldn't see. And now on our huge TVs. You could, you could play a medium, you know, a further shot and [00:31:00] still see the expression on someone's face.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Although weirdly, people are now watching things on their phones, which breaks my heart. Like every time I see somebody watching something on their phone on an airplane, I want to tap them on the shoulder and be like, Hi, 200 people worked really hard on that and you're killing all of us. Um, I'm really grateful that you're engaging with our content, but you're also killing all of us.

So, I know it's rough. We should, we should get to fan questions. Let's take a break and then come back from,

Sarah (2): uh, our break and do some fan questions.

Paul Adelstein: All right. Welcome back, everyone. Here are some fan questions you were all kind enough to drop in the comments on our Instagram, which is at prison break podcast. Um, at.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wait, can I ask you one? Because [00:32:00] this is one of my favorite questions, and it's for you. At Claw XRA, for Paul, some of this we already covered, but the last part of it I just think is such an endearing, wonderful question. How different was it to interpret Lance compared to Kellerman and his other characters slash personalities?

Some of the features that charmed Sara belonged to Kellerman himself. Does it make you believe that in another reality where he didn't go as far as torturing her, they could be good friends? I love that question. Good friends? So much. I don't

Paul Adelstein: know. If,

Sarah Wayne Callies: if you hadn't tortured her. I will

Paul Adelstein: say this. I think that Kellerman has, uh, in season two a lot of, uh, epiphanies about where his own life has taken him and where he may have made some wrong turns.

Um, and I think that one of the reasons why he had not such a hard time. [00:33:00] charmiSararah is because he genuinely respects and likes Sara. I think that he sees a kindred spirit in someone who does some extrajudicial shit that they believe in and I think he respects her as a doctor and an ideologue. Um, so I would say, yeah, I think that he could have, they could have liked one another had he not tortured her.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Had he not tortured her. It's such an amazing, there were actually several. Um, questions that I did not see coming that I hadn't, and these are sort of more generally in the season, but about like, did Kellerman have feelings for her? And that was wild to me because, um, I mean, I'm trying to

Paul Adelstein: find,

Sarah Wayne Callies: because that one never crossed my mind.

And I don't remember us ever having a conversation about that, that this was all a purely professional torturing. Um,

Paul Adelstein: I mean, I think

Sarah Wayne Callies: that was

Paul Adelstein: [00:34:00] Kellerman's thing was right. Right. Trying to keep this, uh, You know, it's not personal. It's just professional, but I feel like, and we'll get to it. I don't, it's not, it's certainly not the next episode, but down the line when he actually does torture her, that, you know, you Tannis directed that episode, it wasn't, uh, easy for him and that really pissed him off.

I mean, there's a whole thing in the bedroom where he's like, he doesn't want to have to do this. And he's mad. He's like mad at you. Right. For bringing out a humanity in you for not complying to the information I wanted. Because now I have to fuck, like he says, and now you're gonna, like, god damn it, don't make me do this kind of thing.

Right. Um, uh, Wanzuan

Wang, I'm sure I'm pronouncing it wrong, at Y A N [00:35:00] X U A N underscore W E N G asks, were there any unscripted moments that were kept in the show? Sara, do you recall?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm crap at this. Um, I do remember there was a photo that got used over and over and over, and still is, that was not a photo from the show.

Oh. It was a photo from rehearsal. And it was interesting because it became kind of iconic between Michael and Sara, but we never, it was not a scene. So we were rehearsing, it was the. It's a, it's a scene where they come back together for the first time since the breakout. I don't remember when it is. Is it on the train?

It's in the first half of the second season.

Music: Okay. No,

Sarah Wayne Callies: no, no. Because before, well, we'll, we'll get there, but it's, it's before all the torture stuff. They meet up, and if my memory serves. Wentworth had, [00:36:00] uh, worked on some of his lines. And so I got there and I was like, okay, let me work on some responses. And so we were like, give us a second to run these lines, to really get them into our bones before we start shooting.

And we were running them and running 'em and running 'em. And I remember being hot and I put my arm up. Oh, I know that picture up on Wentworth's shoulders and were just running lines and talking. And then I don't think I even noticed that anybody was seeing a picture, but in the scene. They don't touch, they never, she never puts her hands on him like that.

And it was interesting because I see that scene A, I see that photo a lot when it comes to the sort of, of Michael, Sara, season two of it all. But it wasn't, we weren't even rehearsing the scene. We were just drilling funny lines. Um, all there's onet, the torture sequence that,

Paul Adelstein: that's a funny story that I kind of feel like Attain screwed me on, on purpose.

Um, which is, which is okay. It's okay. I get what, what he was doing. [00:37:00] Um, which we'll get to when we get there. I don't want to spoil it. And then I will say that with some of the Lance stuff, there were things that we, I added for sure. And definitely, I mean, memorably, I remember saying, my name is Lance. Pinch of crack.

Lance and I'm not, I'm not an ad. When it was made up.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yup. But I think, didn't you even do Pinch a Crack, Dollop a Smack? I feel like some of that was

Paul Adelstein: That was

Sarah Wayne Callies: Was that scripted? I gotta find my season 2

Paul Adelstein: a thing I did in that, in the pie scene that was not scripted, that I did try to do as an inside joke for my fiancée at the time.

Which made it in. It wasn't, it was a line reading, it wasn't the line itself, yeah. The line itself. It was a high pitched, Now that's good pie! Do you know what that is? It was from, uh, It sounds like Mr. [00:38:00] Hankey, the Christmas Pooh. It was from South Park. From South Park.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm a towel, you're a towel. Yeah, Mr.

Hankey the You're a towel. Oh, it's Towelie!

I was thinking, hi to all boys and

Paul Adelstein: girls!

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. It's Mr. Hankey the Christmas Pooh. Yeah, for sure. Um, okay, I've got another question for you before we do our sign off here. Um, this, uh, I want to, because you're really good at this. You're the music guy. Your light keeps falling and obviously you're not a lighting guy, but you're a music guy.

So at Danny underscore bittencourt19 asks, if you could choose a theme song for Sara and Michael, which song would it be and why? Which is kind of cool. And I also then want to challenge you with a theme song. I mean, Sara and

Paul Adelstein: Michael has to be faith, doesn't it? You gotta have faith. Like George Michael?

Wasn't that your, that was like your guys kind of catchphrase. Oh, that's really sweet. The just

Sarah Wayne Callies: have a little faith. [00:39:00] Or is that Michael and Lincoln? Because, ah, my camera's freaking out. Um, or is that Michael and Lincoln? Because it starts with a little faith between the two of them. But it does quickly migrate.

But, um, the

Paul Adelstein: George Michael faith is. Pretty sexual. Yeah. So definitely

Sarah Wayne Callies: sexual. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Probably not about touch your body with brothers. Okay. Okay. I'll, I'll, uh, I'll go with that one.

Paul Adelstein: There's a, what is the other faith song I'm thinking of? I don't remember. Um, and then Kellerman and. Sara, I'm thinking of torture songs.

That's an interesting prompt, eh? Friends, torture. Right. Something like that. Tortured

Sarah Wayne Callies: Poets Department?

Paul Adelstein: What is that? Oh, that's T Swift? Is

Sarah Wayne Callies: that? That's Taylor Swift's, uh, album. Um, but I don't, I can't actually name a song on it. Uh. That would be funny, actually, if Sara and Kellerman's

Paul Adelstein: theme song was Taylor Swift.

Here's a good question. Um, at herbert. rafael, R A [00:40:00] F A E L L, Do you think Sara actually believed Michael had just used her to open the door at any point in Season 2? Or had she always known that she meant something more to him and was being manipulated by the cops to think otherwise? And I'm sure this is something that even during Season 1 went back and forth.

For Sara questioning his motives, but at this point, let's say a few episodes, a few episodes in, she had the accidental overdose. Yeah. Her father's pressuring her. She's going to her meetings. Where, where is she on the Michael of it all at this point, do you think?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think a hundred percent I was used a hundred percent.

I don't think even though he's there's that swan that says there's a plan to make all of this right or whatever. Like I think to prioritize your health and your recovery. You have to go, this guy's out of my life. Cause also he's a felon on the run. Like he's either, [00:41:00] and he ruined my life. I mean, he's, let me put it this way.

He's somebody who, no matter how he may have felt about me, was willing to ruin my life to get what he wanted. And like, don't run towards those guys. This is my advice to anybody out here. Don't run towards those people. Set me very far back. And could have, you know, I mean the big, the big question mark, of course.

is he didn't know that I was an addict and so probably couldn't have predicted the relapse or anything that's on me not him and quite frankly I think I think the big book would say take responsibility for your relapses don't put them on anybody else so um don't put a lot of but I don't think there's

Paul Adelstein: any you too right I mean talks that's a toxic relationship these aren't people

Sarah Wayne Callies: who are you

Paul Adelstein: Literally and figuratively.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Literally and figuratively. Absolutely. Um, okay. So, these are great questions. We'll keep chipping away. You guys keep sending. [00:42:00] Um.

Paul Adelstein: That's all we got time for today.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. I think it is. But thanks for the questions. Thanks for being here. Don't forget, you can subscribe, uh, to our Watch Party, which is a lot of fun.

And it also gives you access to the Discord community, which is really frickin beautiful. And Fan Fiction Friday. These folks are great. Um, and Fan Fiction Friday. Um. And that's all available on Patreon which is available in the link to the show on the on the link in the show page wherever you're listening right now.

Um, and here's our call in question for the week because we have an actual call in line that you can use the telephone if you were sent to prison. Um, what job would you want at Fox River? Would you want to be in the laundry with Manche? Would you want to be in the kitchen? Would you want to be in the landscaping crew, prison library, whatever?

How are you going to earn your 19 cents an hour or whatever? Um, and then what are you saving up to buy at the prison canteen? So our call in line is 401 3 P BREAK, B R E A K, [00:43:00] and we'll play our favorites in a special episode. And finally, our wrap up question.

Paul Adelstein: This whole season, we will ask all our guests and anybody else who comes our way.

If you were fleeing the law, where would you go and why? I answered this in episode one. Sara, now it's

Sarah Wayne Callies: your turn.

Music: Ugh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, and I knew this was coming and I should have prepared something. Um, where would I go and why? I, I do love the sunny beach plan. Um, I'm tempted to say I mean, the Bahamas probably doesn't have much of an extradition thing.

And I do have a good friend who lives there. I do prefer a more tropical situation. The Bahamas didn't have a whole lot in the way of like trees and stuff. So maybe like, Oh, New Zealand. Yeah, I'd go to the South Island of New Zealand because it's gorgeous and I feel like you could hide out there [00:44:00] and Jacinda Ardern is amazing.

And maybe she'd let me just We're gonna comb through

Paul Adelstein: this podcast. You know exactly where you're going. Maybe she's lying and she'll actually be in the mountains of Alaska

Sarah Wayne Callies: She'll be dead though. I have no mountain Alaska survival skills.

Paul Adelstein: Thank you for listening. Alright, well thanks everybody. Remember to subscribe to the Watch Party episodes on Patreon. Uh, the link to which is on the show page, wherever you're listening to right now. Um, hit us with a call and questions of the week.

Again, that's 401 3 P BREAK. Drop us your questions at at prison break podcast on Instagram. And, uh, we'll see you next week. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thanks for being here. Alright, Prison Breaking with Sara and Paul is a Calibre Studio production.

Paul Adelstein: Your hosts have been inmates Sara Wayne Callis and Paul Adelstein. Our prison warden is producer Ben Haver.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The frontman of our jailhouse rock band is the one and only Paul Adelstein who made all of our [00:45:00] music.

Paul Adelstein: And Prison Yard tattoo artist, logo brand designers John Nunziato and Little Big Brands. Check them out at www. littlebigbrands. com. BigBrands.

Sarah Wayne Callies: com. Find us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast, email us at pbpodcast at caliber studio.

com, or call us at (401) 3-PBREAK.

Paul Adelstein: Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Caliber Studio Productions. Thank you for listening.

Sarah Wayne Callies: for listening. MSRP. Taxes Entitled Not For Quote. Taxes Entitled Not

Paul Adelstein: For Quote. Taxes Entitled Not For Quote.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Exactly. Bye guys.

Paul Adelstein: Void in the state of California. Void but prohibited. We'll see you next week.

Okay. Bye