00:00:01.44
alexei sayle
Red light and Bell. Good luck studio.

00:00:03.58
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Good luck, CDO.

00:00:06.48
alexei sayle
Hi, everybody. Welcome to Episode 69 of the Alexi so podcast and ah boy, have we got nothing to tell you.

00:00:18.68
alexei sayle
ah

00:00:18.77
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It's the sex episode.

00:00:21.53
alexei sayle
ah Yeah, what was all that?

00:00:22.66
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
69 baby.

00:00:25.48
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:00:26.16
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:00:26.55
alexei sayle
um So, ah yeah, I've spent the earlier part of this week, um recording. because I don't know if I talked about this, but yeah, so we we did that.

00:00:34.99
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
You did, yes.

00:00:38.04
alexei sayle
um

00:00:39.14
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Recording what?

00:00:40.11
alexei sayle
ah the my second The second volume of Memoir, when it came out in 2016, Bloomsbury didn't do an audio book version. I you know so assume it wasn't considered viable then, but of course audio books since then have become a big business.

00:00:56.29
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Huge.

00:00:57.12
alexei sayle
So I've just spent Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was recording um the the audio book version of Thatcher stole my trousers and then presumably that will be up on Spotify and Audible and all the other places where you can get audio books.

00:01:15.62
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
How did it go?

00:01:16.98
alexei sayle
it was fine really i mean um You know, I mean, it's, it's, I mean, the first day is a bit, you know, your voice is, voice needs to get used to talking for five hours, six hours straight.

00:01:32.89
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:01:33.64
alexei sayle
Studio was very nice, nice guys, relatively near me, 10, five, 10 minutes cycle right away. Guy uses the same barber as me, interestingly enough, It was fine, really.

00:01:41.86
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hmm.

00:01:45.69
alexei sayle
and lives nearby. ah It was a slightly odd, I mean, it's, ah it's, um It was an odd experience um because this was, I'd written it in 2015, I guess, 2014, 2015. So it was a 2014, 2015 view of my past, you know, and and I would kind of actually see my, you know, if I wrote it now, it would be a very different book, I think, really. so

00:02:19.50
alexei sayle
It was weird looking back on your version of an area version of your past, you know, I was once that no, no, just I just written that just read it just read it.

00:02:28.89
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
yeah Do you have an opportunity to like up to make any edits or anything like that read it as is

00:02:35.94
alexei sayle
Yeah, just read it. There's a couple of bits. Actually, I thought we're now slightly. um Yeah, I took them out really because they just didn't they didn't seem a good fit with the world of 20, 24, just a couple of lines, you know, um but it was inche I remember i I tried to make a bit out of it, but it's too complicated. But there's a. There was a clip show called I Heart the 1980s, I think, in which talking heads were. Would come on and you know talk about the 80s. So this was these were maybe made in the 90s.

00:03:15.38
alexei sayle
And I did, I did one or two, I think for God knows what reason, but anyway, but then they re-showed them again in the 2000s. So it was bizarre to see celebrities even, you know, 10 years later, giving, so we to sit in the 2000s, watching celebrities like friend, like like Muriel Gray, for instance, a friend of mine, giving her view of the 80s.

00:03:37.28
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hmm Yeah It's like a time warp over time warp

00:03:41.84
alexei sayle
yeah And it looked, but I mean, obviously, it looked old fashioned. I mean, they the quality of the program that had been made in the 90s looked amazingly old fashioned. And obviously, the people looked 10 years younger. It was just a weird kind of, I mean, I don't know what I'm trying to say here, but it was just a weird kind of um ah Yeah, it was a weird, yes, it was a weird kind of double time war. Yeah, exactly. And I think I was also...

00:04:12.94
alexei sayle
in a couple of them. you know And also some of the celebrities, you thought, who the bleeding hell are they? you know Because the the the people who'd been qualified to comment on the 80s in the 90s were now people in the 2000s who'd been utterly forgotten.

00:04:29.42
alexei sayle
you know ah kind of and you know Because obviously ah the the kind of qualifications would be

00:04:29.86
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:04:34.70
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
They were like stars of the moment.

00:04:36.55
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and that that that stuff can often be very, um very kind of fragile, you know, so it's, you know, who the fuck's that? And, you know, where are they now kind of thing. we Probably people were thinking that about me. um I did write a column about it.

00:04:54.47
alexei sayle
And I said, you know, where are they now? People like Muriel Gray. I said, well, actually, she used to sleep in my spare room. But, you know, it was. some So, yeah, it was. Why was I talking about? Oh, yes. So that so I was I was I was looking on. a I was reading out a version of my life that I'd written in 2014, 2015, which I didn't entirely agree with any anymore, really.

00:05:21.78
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
20.

00:05:26.44
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Well, that's interesting. Yeah.

00:05:28.34
alexei sayle
So yeah, it was, ah again, it was a... Um, you know, I mean, I guess that's always the case. It's just never, it's not acknowledged. You know, I mean, it's a sort of, our culture insists that, you know, the past is the past and it's a kind of fixed thing where, you know, and we are who we are is also fixed. Whereas of course it is, we are in a constantly fluid state. And I suppose that is one of the few things that could give us hope. You know, on the left is the people don't need to be as they

00:06:01.00
alexei sayle
as they are right now, you know, I mean, I but i mean i remember somebody saying somewhere about what Donald Trump offers people is that the the opportunity to be the worst possible version of themselves that they can, you know, and Starman, obviously, you know, Kemi Badenach offers the same.

00:06:18.22
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, kind of gives you permission to be that, doesn't it?

00:06:20.74
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, they they they give you a kind of permission or they encourage you to access those selfish, tribal, cruel. they They give you an opportunity to to be the the absolute worst version of yourself that you could possibly be. And what should be a part, I think, a part of the offer from the left should be that we that we can offer you left thought can offer you a way to be the absolute best version of yourself that you can offer you a way to be kind and, ah you know, ah kind of, collid you know, to to be, to to to help people rather than just kind of circle the wagons and and just protect yourself and your tribe.

00:06:52.05
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Did you see Trump's...

00:07:05.96
alexei sayle
Really. Yes. What are you saying about Mr. Trump?

00:07:09.17
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Did you see his ah statement on the airplane crash in DC?

00:07:14.42
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. It was, I mean, yeah.

00:07:17.24
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And he was, he I think if, ah he he was like listing, he was saying why it could have happened. And he listed, he was like the pilot of the plane could have been, and then he listed like a ah list of disabilities, including dwarfism and trying to say like, that they they hire any of the, and in ah in other countries, anyone could be a pilot.

00:07:30.81
alexei sayle
Hmm.

00:07:35.11
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:07:37.94
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:07:39.96
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And then he listed all these disabilities.

00:07:40.92
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:07:43.15
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
and try ah mixing together kind of ableism and racism into a explaining why this crash happened.

00:07:43.55
alexei sayle
And it's all not true.

00:07:47.50
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:07:50.74
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
and and And that gives people permission to think that way and feel that way.

00:07:51.50
alexei sayle
Yeah. Well, I assume that...

00:07:56.56
alexei sayle
Yeah, he also it said, i I saw on the BBC that he used a profanity at some point as well, um which is an in, I mean, which is also an in, I don't know, the BBC was being very coy about it.

00:07:57.37
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It's wild.

00:08:04.08
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh.

00:08:09.67
alexei sayle
But um I know because my friend Oscar is Argentinian, he says Millay, who is a kind of South American mini Trump. Actually, yeah he's, you know, that kind of ah heightened discourse that Millay swears all the time, you know.

00:08:26.92
alexei sayle
And that's a way of, you know, making the discourse cruder and and more, I guess, more, yeah, more more confusing, I suppose, in a way.

00:08:37.48
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Unprofessional.

00:08:41.10
alexei sayle
so

00:08:41.95
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Well, that's probably what they thought about um JFK when he was, I heard recently, he was the first ever president to be inaugurated with that without wearing a hat.

00:08:53.84
alexei sayle
really that was the yeah right that's that we've been on a we've been on a slippery slope since then yeah um yeah

00:08:54.41
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
He took his hat off when he when he made his pledge and and people were outraged.

00:09:03.56
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Since then, yeah.

00:09:06.38
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But yeah, that's a positive way of looking at it that, you know, we are all malleable and changeable and and we can change our minds and behaviors and

00:09:13.47
alexei sayle
Yeah. I mean, there's a book. I mean, it's always it's always, you know, it's always you have to be careful when a comedian gets a book and then really kind of they believe in it. But a book that I really find I found amazing when I read it and still think is amazing is a book called um Mistakes Were Made But Not By Me. and And what it basically talks about, I may have mentioned this before, is I mean it it seems to give us unbelievable pain as human beings to admit that we were wrong and to admit that we would daunt we but did the wrong thing and that this book it's a collection of social psychology experiments and and research from um you know across across the world really just where people have and for instance they cite several studies where the

00:10:04.75
alexei sayle
The police have arrested somebody for murder and they've been, you know, jailed or whatever, executed, I don't know. And the police still insist that that person is guilty even after the person they're supposed to two have murdered turns up alive.

00:10:24.61
alexei sayle
But they still say no, they did it. I mean, in human beings, I mean, we do. We are. And it's just as really profound. um It's a tremendous it seems to go. And and we we will use we will use drugs, alcohol, all kinds of distractions to stop ourselves from ever admitting that we were wrong. And we will also commit terrible crimes. And there's a really brilliant article in the the long read in the Guardian yesterday or the day before just about Germany's um support of Israel and how you know and how that is very much linked to their Nazi past which is also their Nazi presence and how it talks about how um

00:11:03.30
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hmm.

00:11:11.55
alexei sayle
You know, ah and all Germans think that their parents actually helped Jews, you know, during the war that their parents, there were no, but and ah it's just like a few, it's a few thousand people in Germany who will admit that their parents were actually Nazis.

00:11:17.50
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, wow.

00:11:28.02
alexei sayle
There were more Nazi officials in in power in Germany after the war than during the war.

00:11:28.12
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
My God.

00:11:34.25
alexei sayle
um and there's this this' this And how their support for Israel sort of allows them to to believe in this lie by saying that that that the that you know that that we have to you know yeah that we are now helping the Jews.

00:11:46.96
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
We're helping the Jews

00:11:52.59
alexei sayle
and that that it just And to also say that the Holocaust was not just a product of ordinary human evil, but it was just some sort of exceptional event carried out carried out by um you know very ah very few people.

00:12:10.97
alexei sayle
And it's a tremendous article. I can't remember the the name of the author, but it was really, I mean, it's obviously what I, I mean, it's not just about Germany, it's about, it's about human beings everywhere in their, their inability to face their own, the darkness of their own souls.

00:12:29.36
alexei sayle
But, and they say, yes, so what I would repeat is that, that that's what should be very much the central offer of, it's not, you know, we shouldn't in a way, maybe on the left go on about,

00:12:29.90
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
it's

00:12:40.25
alexei sayle
you know now you know, just either dry statistics or nationalizing war. I mean, we should go on about like nationalizing and utilities and stuff like that. But we never talk about the why we're doing this stuff, why you shouldn't be racist.

00:12:49.52
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hmm. So it's

00:12:55.48
alexei sayle
And it shouldn't be like a finger-wagging thing. But if you are if you stop being racist, I think we should say you will feel better.

00:13:04.09
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Mm.

00:13:04.10
alexei sayle
you will feel a sense of security whereas before you felt a sense of threat. If you come to love your fellow human beings and also do good things for them then you will feel so much better and I think that's often the kind of, I mean Jeremy tried it a bit but the kind of spiritual aspect of of what it is to be left I think is is is should be a really central part of what we're offering really and and ah sometimes it's not it's just a kind of bland kind of dreary kind of um you know kind of I submit this motion before the executive committee you know it really it it should be and what being left should be a much more spiritual thing that it's not just that

00:13:53.43
alexei sayle
Being anti-racist is the right thing to do, but it's just that you will feel better for doing it. ah

00:14:02.16
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I guess people don't want to be seen as like a...

00:14:02.36
alexei sayle
so that didn't know it was gonna

00:14:05.00
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
People don't want to be seen as like a hippy dippy kind of... It's kind of such a made fun of thing that you're like, oh yeah, free love, peace and love.

00:14:10.47
alexei sayle
but Well, but that's, that's what they want, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, it's not, but it's not even, it's just.

00:14:15.34
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Turning us into cartoon characters for wanting peace and justice and fairness.

00:14:15.36
alexei sayle
i

00:14:20.62
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:14:20.80
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
We're all...

00:14:21.38
alexei sayle
Yeah. Whereas, but you as I say, you it will make you feel better if you become...

00:14:25.54
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
On a personal level...

00:14:27.13
alexei sayle
Well, actually, no, it's at the moment, it's bloody horrible being left wing.

00:14:29.60
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Well, it is.

00:14:30.67
alexei sayle
That's what I mean. If we lived in the left wing, if we lived in a world where our socialist vision came to fruition, then genuinely everybody would be happier.

00:14:33.06
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
if exactly. Yeah.

00:14:43.38
alexei sayle
I mean, supporting Trump or stammer, vicious, cruel individuals, um I saw Angela Eagle on the just to quote a quarter clip this morning the lesser of two eagles um uh just be saying oh well we've deported 16,000 you know refugees and what you're you're proud of that that's a that's a thing to be proud of I also just

00:15:13.78
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
yeah I saw an image online ah yesterday of, there's an image of a car park in America with lots of tents on it.

00:15:23.74
alexei sayle
Right.

00:15:24.06
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And then someone had captioned the image. um This is what communists, what the world would look like under communism. And if someone had taken that and then written a caption under that.

00:15:31.51
alexei sayle
Right.

00:15:35.56
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
and said, no, this is literally the world under capitalism like because it was a picture of a deportation camp in America.

00:15:38.06
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:43.01
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
like why why This is actually a real image.

00:15:45.25
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:15:46.56
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Why are you creating a fiction out of something that's actually real?

00:15:47.65
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:15:50.18
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
ah But ah to respond to what you're saying, on a personal level, apologizing, taking ownership of your misdeeds and like owning up to it and apologizing.

00:15:50.23
alexei sayle
I know.

00:15:59.94
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
is is really liberating and a and ah kind of empowering thing to do.

00:16:04.65
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, when you do it, yeah.

00:16:05.23
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And it changes, it gives you such, it takes removes shackles from your brain.

00:16:08.84
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you just say, yeah, I was wrong, you know, yeah.

00:16:10.23
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But the hard is yeah the hardest part is like doing it, but then once you've done it, you like you become addicted to it almost.

00:16:12.11
alexei sayle
And of course, yeah.

00:16:17.00
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:18.06
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
You're running around trying to find someone to apologize to.

00:16:20.96
alexei sayle
And of course, one of the the central things they talk about in mistakes were made, but not by me was the, which is, you still see that, which is a mode of talking, isn't it?

00:16:20.99
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um

00:16:29.45
alexei sayle
I apologize if anybody out there was offended by my words.

00:16:32.90
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yes.

00:16:33.75
alexei sayle
It's that putting everything in a kind of passive tense.

00:16:35.89
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It's your fault for being offended but I'm sorry for you.

00:16:38.65
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's also, of course, what they talk about is, what they detail is vestiges. You know, the word cognitive dissonance is often, misused, I think, but they talk in detail about Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance, which is ah that Festinger was a ah young social psychologist who embedded himself in the 1950s with a religious cult, I think the Seventh-day Adventist, who predicted that um that ah the world was going to end on a certain date.

00:17:04.39
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Whoa.

00:17:10.72
alexei sayle
And he was surprised to find that when it didn't, those that were those people who had not invested much you hadn't sold their house or because the world was going to end just kind of drifted away but those who had committed the most to this idea that the world was going to end on a certain date didn't um didn't walk away from these the church, from the cult, but in fact their belief increased and they became even more fervent believers and then the leader said, you know, well the world didn't end then because of this, but it will end now and so it's that idea and and what it highlighted was that

00:17:52.45
alexei sayle
that when people have invested so much in ah in an ideology, any proof that that ideology is false will not make them walk away from that ideology, but in fact will increase.

00:18:01.08
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
fascinating.

00:18:05.00
alexei sayle
I'm struggling to avoid the term double down, which I think isn't Americanism, but um ah that they will that their their um belief in that ideology will not diminish.

00:18:15.86
alexei sayle
It will be will be doubled or tripled and they become even more ah fanatical believers. And obviously you see that, you know, and so rational argument doesn't necessarily work with these people.

00:18:29.49
alexei sayle
And you have to think of something and yeah and you see that with the obviously with the Israelis clearly committing the genocide. But those who believe in Israel double or triple their belief that their actions that it is not.

00:18:38.46
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah. Despite all evidence.

00:18:42.47
alexei sayle
Yeah, despite all evidence to the contrary.

00:18:44.15
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And I'm thinking of that riot the rioters last summer after the Southport tragedy.

00:18:44.67
alexei sayle
and

00:18:50.69
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:18:51.42
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Horrific murder, but murders. That Giza who was taunting the police and then had a brick thrown at his head and then in his balls. He must be like the most racist person now.

00:19:04.08
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Because that is a...

00:19:04.20
alexei sayle
Maybe I don't know, it'd be interesting to find out what he, what do i say how is he?

00:19:06.88
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
He's in prison now actually. That fella, yeah.

00:19:08.76
alexei sayle
Right. um But yeah, so yeah, it's a very good, but it's a really interesting, I mean, it's a bit, because it was written, I think, itself in the 90s, it's a bit, they tend to quote words of wisdom from Israeli generals a bit too often, but apart from that, is it is an amazing read.

00:19:31.77
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Who was it?

00:19:31.95
alexei sayle
Mistakes were made, but not by me.

00:19:32.09
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
You said it was written by a comedian or were you talking about yourself being the comedian who's written a book?

00:19:35.97
alexei sayle
No, no, it was written by two social psychologists whose name won whose names I can't remember for the moment, but one is Jewish and one isn't.

00:19:38.63
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Right.

00:19:42.97
alexei sayle
um

00:19:44.32
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
You keep picking up a book. What you got there? Is that something you want to read to us?

00:19:46.19
alexei sayle
Yeah, so i'm ah on my image is the wrong way around, isn't it? for some reason This isn't for me.

00:19:50.22
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
No, it is for you, but it will be fine in the final ah project product.

00:19:54.25
alexei sayle
ah so am i Also well I'm, it's called minority rule by Ash Sarkar and I will be interviewing Ash at the comedian in Birmingham I think on the 23rd of February and somewhere in Bath on the 22nd and you know I'm doing a couple of interview things with

00:19:55.59
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
What's that? Is that the book you're talking about?

00:20:01.57
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh.

00:20:14.89
alexei sayle
The only time I've done that before interviewing this million Margolis at the Cambridge Corn Exchange, I'm imagining that Ash won't ask me if if I've been circumcised and tell stories about having random sex with men in cars.

00:20:30.52
alexei sayle
ah But I'm...

00:20:34.71
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Do you think maybe we could, I could come along and maybe we could talk to one of the, or we could record a podcast in the green room or something with Were you circumcised?

00:20:41.51
alexei sayle
Maybe I don't, it's her thing really. I don't want to, I don't want to step on that really. I'll see. Um, I don't really want to make it about us. It's, it's her event really. And so I, I don't, I'll, I'll have a think about that, but I sort of think it's, you don't want to blur the lines really, you know, it's, it's her event.

00:20:59.77
alexei sayle
And I'll be, no, actually you, Mary and my goalies in disguise.

00:21:07.79
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I thought, because I've been because of my Islamic heritage and you are Jewish, I thought this could be the UK's premium circumcised podcast, but I guess not.

00:21:10.08
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:16.15
alexei sayle
No, no, it wasn't because, because my parents didn't, but my parents didn't, you know, believe in it.

00:21:17.19
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It is episode 69.

00:21:22.42
alexei sayle
So I mean, they went.

00:21:22.65
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
You know, there's a big movement against it because it's a, you're kind of violating someone's body without their permission.

00:21:28.62
alexei sayle
Yeah. Hmm.

00:21:31.03
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Any thoughts, Alexei?

00:21:31.27
alexei sayle
And I think the health benefits are

00:21:32.19
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Any thoughts?

00:21:34.51
alexei sayle
Somebody once told me that the actor Alan Cummings is a big anti anti circumcision campaigner.

00:21:42.21
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, what were you saying about the health benefits?

00:21:43.45
alexei sayle
I don't know whether that's true or not.

00:21:47.97
alexei sayle
But I think there's but there were health benefits, but I don't think they're true. Really, they they claim. I don't know. I don't really want it. This is, you know,

00:21:58.44
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
What's your stance on foreskin, Alexi?

00:22:01.07
alexei sayle
Yeah, I think probably, I agree with, I probably agree with the answer.

00:22:01.67
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
All right. Okay. Okay. Move on.

00:22:04.55
alexei sayle
I don't know. I agree with the anti circumcision.

00:22:06.26
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah. I kind of do as well.

00:22:07.06
alexei sayle
It is a, it is a kind of assault, isn't it really?

00:22:07.90
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It's a hard one.

00:22:10.95
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:22:11.33
alexei sayle
Um, uh, what?

00:22:13.88
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Especially when they do it with their teeth.

00:22:17.44
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
There's some really orthodox rabbis who do it with their teeth. Very small portion of them, but like it's it's like extremely old archaic tradition.

00:22:21.28
alexei sayle
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:26.83
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
You just bite it.

00:22:27.89
alexei sayle
Oh God, that doesn't sound right. Um, but yeah, so I'll be, I'm interested, I'm interested in her and what she represents really in terms of that whole ah new media.

00:22:40.14
alexei sayle
And, um, I mean, she's, I just started reading the introduction when she talks about a conversion to Marxism.

00:22:41.81
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:22:47.44
alexei sayle
So I will, we will at least.

00:22:48.24
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, she's an interesting person and and a good a strong young voice in the in the movement.

00:22:49.86
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so I'm very looking forward, I'm very much looking forward to that. It's kind of launched their kind of daytime events, lunchtime events.

00:23:02.02
alexei sayle
So people in Bath and Birmingham. I mean, I'm sure she's got a greater following than me, but ah you know, if anybody wants to come along, that's when those events are.

00:23:12.08
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
That's great. Great.

00:23:15.01
alexei sayle
And yes, I'm very excited. I'd like to. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't feel like I meshed that well. I mean, i'm obviously I'm a great admirer in some ways of many of my girlies, but yes, it's just what my friend Harry used to call the Alta cactus, the old shit, you know. It's me, me, Miriam, and Michael Rosen represent Jewish anti-Zionism in the elderly.

00:23:38.94
alexei sayle
ah

00:23:42.47
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
No, you're not shits No, no, no, that's brilliant ah fascinating my psychological analysis there Because you know if on a yeah, it would be interesting and

00:23:43.31
alexei sayle
But it was ah it was a weird event. Anyway, I've talked for quite a while. of I didn't think I was going to say anything. Look, I'm talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah maybe we could talk a bit more about mistakes from it. I'd be happy to have an excuse to read it again.

00:24:10.24
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Maybe let me know who the authors are of that.

00:24:12.06
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah.

00:24:12.61
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I'm trying to reach out, but um the idea of ah owning up to your mistakes, if it feels so good on a personal level, what it could do on a national scale.

00:24:14.28
alexei sayle
i

00:24:19.33
alexei sayle
It's such a... Yeah.

00:24:25.36
alexei sayle
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and that that's what you, I mean, that's what this article in The Guardian sort of says about Germany, that they have not, that they have, that it's a kind of fake contrition that they have indulged in really, which is not admitted to their crimes as such, but has instead replaced it with a kind of sentimental, and of course, a support for even great, you know, for a new genocide.

00:24:49.48
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But it's not just that. It's like, it's not just the apology. It's like what you do. Like, you know, I think the queen at one point apologized for the empire.

00:24:59.59
alexei sayle
Did she?

00:24:59.96
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Um, you know, it was, I think Britain has officially apologized.

00:25:03.77
alexei sayle
Did she give it all the shit? Oh, yeah. he kind Give all the shit back.

00:25:05.69
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
That's the point. And then what, but we still have, uh, you still have your palace and you still have all the jewels in your crown that was stolen from other countries.

00:25:07.25
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:25:11.26
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:25:13.25
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So what is that apology if you've not actually atoned for it?

00:25:14.80
alexei sayle
What's it mean? Yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:25:17.89
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And then like Germany made an apology for the war, but then they said, and ah but then they didn't suggest maybe giving the Jews a home in Germany.

00:25:22.08
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:25:29.72
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
They're like, Oh no, that's fine. Go over there and have Israel.

00:25:30.94
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:25:33.01
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Um, that wasn't even floated as an idea. It's like, Oh, you will give you a nice part of German.

00:25:35.53
alexei sayle
No.

00:25:37.90
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
We'll bring you back in. We'll integrate you.

00:25:39.21
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:25:40.43
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But obviously that's probably. ah the survivors of the Holocaust were probably like that's the last place I want want to go maybe.

00:25:46.86
alexei sayle
Germany, yeah.

00:25:47.22
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um

00:25:47.95
alexei sayle
yeah um But there is, it's quite interesting, again, in this article in the Guardian, it it took so quotes Germans, sort of, you know, kind of, kind of you know, talking about Israelis and saying, no, there they are, they're like Aryans, they've got blonde hair and blue eyes. And, you know, I mean, clearly just reframe, and you know, just as, just as, as in a way that, you know, the Germans, um you know, made, because the Japanese, because they were their allies, kind of made them honorary Aryans, and they've done the same for

00:26:25.44
alexei sayle
The Israelis are now, um ah you know, are now being inducted into the ranks of the Ubermensch and obviously the Palestinians have been cast in the role of the Untermensch.

00:26:27.79
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Fucking hell.

00:26:41.47
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Fucking hell.

00:26:42.97
alexei sayle
And that's where we are. Germany.

00:26:45.53
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Right, I have a couple of updates before we get to the film club if you don't mind.

00:26:46.13
alexei sayle
farina Yes. Yes.

00:26:50.83
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
All right. Um, regarding Lennon and the Rovers, as many people in the comments and a few in the emails pointed out, thank you for reaching out.

00:26:54.02
alexei sayle
Yes.

00:26:58.15
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
You can email us at Alexis Hill podcast at gmail dot.com. Leave us comments on the YouTube video. We really appreciate it. And in our Patreon. page you can comment on the video editions now by the way every week there's a video edition of the podcast on our patreon and we have a nice uh community chat group as well patreon dot.com forward slash alexis sale podcast support the show Chuck, if you quit our way, patreon dot.com forward slash Alexis podcast, be nice in the chat.

00:27:27.90
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um Lots of people have informed me that Lennon and the Rovers is a lot more available than we thought. It's not just on Google play. Like I said last week, you can get it practically everywhere.

00:27:36.26
alexei sayle
right yeah i imagine it's kind yeah i imagine it's it's kind of in it's in it's in the knob itself it's quite okay really but um yeah yeah yeah that's a nice start we enjoyed i enjoyed um

00:27:38.50
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
There's audible, I think it's even on Spotify. ah So anyone out there wanting to listen to both series of Lennon and the Rovers, almost four hours of cracking entertainment,

00:27:56.64
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
People have shown so much love for it. People have really enjoyed listening to it. So that's making a resurgence. Maybe there could be a movie of it soon.

00:28:05.87
alexei sayle
I enjoyed recording it, really. And wait and we want the the producer of it, Harry Thompson, was somebody who died quite young, really. but He was an interesting...

00:28:16.37
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh.

00:28:16.79
alexei sayle
he I remember he did just before he died. And he was he was Oxford and all that stuff, but he did a really interesting animation series.

00:28:28.61
alexei sayle
I can't... I remember it had a serial killer in it that wrote about on that... What's that sort of...

00:28:34.29
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Was it monkey dust? People were mentioning monkey dust.

00:28:35.49
alexei sayle
monkey dust. That was it. Yeah.

00:28:36.77
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, there was lots of love for monkey dust.

00:28:37.16
alexei sayle
Really, really interesting series. I thought fascinating. And and because Harry died, I think party it it just didn't get like a second series, bro. full of really interesting, very dark ah characters.

00:28:51.84
alexei sayle
that ah the The serial killer who wrote about on a space hopper and stuff.

00:28:58.09
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Worth a look then.

00:28:58.38
alexei sayle
I think some of the early work of maybe the peep show guys. um But I thought it was an interest interesting kind of confluence of animation techniques and quite dark writing.

00:29:04.41
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hmm.

00:29:13.28
alexei sayle
Anyway, then he died.

00:29:15.52
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Rest in peace, Harry.

00:29:16.28
alexei sayle
It was a bit of a a loss, yeah.

00:29:16.44
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Monkey dust sounds sick.

00:29:18.70
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:29:19.73
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I'm going to check that out.

00:29:21.11
alexei sayle
Yep.

00:29:21.62
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Okay. And then AJ, our friend who was involved in some Palestine action actions, ah reached out.

00:29:26.16
alexei sayle
Mm hmm.

00:29:31.78
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
This is, ah so, Uh, she got sentenced yesterday.

00:29:36.52
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:29:37.39
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yesterday. Uh, remember that she was, um, fighting a charge for a fray.

00:29:43.08
alexei sayle
Yes.

00:29:43.88
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Um, got, she got a 12 month community order with up to 25 rehabilitation activity requirement days.

00:29:51.98
alexei sayle
right

00:29:52.05
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Uh, she's fine with that. It was what she was expecting. Um, and this is interesting. So after the case closed.

00:30:03.74
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
her barrister said to her that um her barrister's dad told the barrister that we mentioned her on the show.

00:30:13.71
alexei sayle
Right.

00:30:14.38
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So basically her barrister's dad is a listener of the show.

00:30:14.51
alexei sayle
Okay.

00:30:17.10
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So hello, barrister's dad.

00:30:17.17
alexei sayle
okay Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:19.97
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um So AJ asked me to let him know.

00:30:22.43
alexei sayle
It's so brief, it's so brief.

00:30:27.36
alexei sayle
All right.

00:30:28.56
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
that his daughter did an amazing job. Her legal team worked very hard for her.

00:30:31.09
alexei sayle
That's nice.

00:30:35.22
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
She's had so much support from members of her community in Manchester, from people showing up to court throughout the trial, staff at the courts showing love and appreciation, making it a lot easier for her.

00:30:44.59
alexei sayle
And wow. Wow.

00:30:47.50
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It was a very humbling experience. She couldn't have done it alone. She's happy for me to update the listeners.

00:30:52.90
alexei sayle
Yeah, no, that's, ah well, that's, yeah, that's really, I'm glad, I mean, obviously she shouldn't have been arrested or charged or anything, but that's a relative, I mean, and probably Starmer will be spitting feathers about the decency and the proportionality of that sentence, which is, you know, i mean which is about right, I would guess.

00:30:53.69
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
and

00:30:57.71
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
lots of no She received lots of solidarity.

00:31:16.41
alexei sayle
And this I mean, she's never been, charged in the first place. But ah you know, that Eva Cooper will maybe try and get that sentence.

00:31:29.52
alexei sayle
Incarcerated. I don't know. I hope that's it. That's the end of that. But yeah, just nice that Barrister's dad listens.

00:31:33.59
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
but

00:31:36.10
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And her sentence is to do more for her community, which is, it just could be worse.

00:31:38.86
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:31:40.85
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But ah yeah, AJ says to tell the listeners, always keep fighting, love and solidarity to all.

00:31:43.20
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:31:47.22
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um Big up AJ, big up Palestine action.

00:31:49.39
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. They they do amazing work.

00:31:53.75
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I have one last update for you.

00:31:55.95
alexei sayle
Yep.

00:31:56.55
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um I'm really sorry to bring this up. but the Lego Alexi saga continues.

00:32:01.39
alexei sayle
All right.

00:32:03.41
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I'm so sorry.

00:32:05.01
alexei sayle
i

00:32:05.60
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So if you remember the winner of the last Lego Alexi was someone on Apple Podcast reviews who reviewed the podcast.

00:32:12.61
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:32:13.44
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
ah They called themselves Heisenberg BB.

00:32:16.79
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:32:18.25
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It's actually someone called Bob. And Bob, Bob, Bob. As an act of, he Bob says as an act of solidarity, please auction the Lego figure and donate to the cause.

00:32:33.49
alexei sayle
Okay.

00:32:34.59
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
He'll start the bidding at five pounds.

00:32:36.79
alexei sayle
Okay.

00:32:38.30
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Um, so bloody hell, I guess the auction is open. so This Lego Alex is going to be dragged out for so fucking long.

00:32:43.61
alexei sayle
Yeah, if anybody wants this. Yeah.

00:32:48.42
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So we give it a month.

00:32:50.46
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:32:51.79
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Highest bidder.

00:32:52.43
alexei sayle
i found by po but bit fight bum by by po bom bum fun i by five pom bom bom po find around five brown do i five pound, away have but six pound six pound six pound do i six pound if five

00:33:02.23
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
No, it's just on five pounds, I'm afraid.

00:33:09.95
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
One second, Alexi, sorry.

00:33:10.03
alexei sayle
etc

00:33:13.55
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Maddie, I'm recording a podcast, is it important? I'll call you back.

00:33:21.02
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So listeners, comments, emails, Patreon messages, um give us your bids. beat five pounds, highest bid in the next month.

00:33:33.87
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, go for it. Yeah, do it in the background, Alexei, keep going. Next bidder, the person who bids highest bidding, we will take your money and we will donate it to MAP.

00:33:42.01
alexei sayle
million pounds. Uh, maybe yes, actually with that, i'm because we need to finish by 12.30, I've got the, um, map have won a slot in the radio for appeal, I think in May, maybe you you radio for appeal, which is, um, it's very useful fundraising tool and I'm going to be voicing it. So I'm going to be talking to them about,

00:34:05.70
alexei sayle
the details of that. I've done it once before. I did it for the Simon community, which is almost charging that I support, but obviously map is very medical aid for Palestinians.

00:34:07.82
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, what does that entail?

00:34:16.55
alexei sayle
Very important cause and they will be doing, they will be um taking part in the radio for appeal. I think it's, and I think it's fairly distant, but you know that.

00:34:26.86
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So is that like a, is that like a call in fundraising show?

00:34:29.94
alexei sayle
Yeah, it's like, and no, I think it's just, a i I can't remember. It's like, um It's just an appeal which is broadcast um but on radio for maybe several times with a you know ah ah story about yeah i mean that way i think it this story about the work that they do, obviously, which has become um

00:34:41.31
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
on Radio 4. Nice!

00:34:53.80
alexei sayle
more and more ah vital over the last year and and a bit. And I will be doing the voice for that anyway with my, because of my mellow tones.

00:35:05.91
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
yes um that's that's wonderful news so uh do you think um so shall we donate the lego alexi funds to map anything we uh raise all right um okay sounds good all right start the bidding now uh that's my updates

00:35:08.44
alexei sayle
ah So yeah. Yeah, I mean, i it's a bit distant in the future, but just, um I mean, map is always a charity, absolutely worth supporting.

00:35:26.38
alexei sayle
Yeah, why not?

00:35:33.36
alexei sayle
you you yeah me chicken yeah someat there are some empire i may limitabilityability

00:35:37.87
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
ah Is it time for the Alexis Elle Film Club?

00:35:43.13
alexei sayle
b dd film the Yeah, we could do.

00:35:45.58
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Film club!

00:35:48.88
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Bob-omb!

00:35:51.17
alexei sayle
Yeah, why not?

00:35:51.40
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Right, good. All right, we watched...

00:35:52.76
alexei sayle
I watched, yeah. ah interesting i mean i' argue you the The story I was going to tell about um is not directly connected with IF, but I was last year. I think it was last year.

00:36:06.46
alexei sayle
I did the Laan Festival. Was it here before Christ? Which is a festival I do. I've done a lot. It's in Laan, South Wales, where Dylan Thomas had his holiday check and that's, you know, it's the setting for Under Milk Wood is essentially ah the village, the town of Laan.

00:36:29.32
alexei sayle
um ah But last the last, when I did it, One of the other performers was Robin Asquith from the most famous, you know, from the Confessions of series of, you know, you know, the Confessions of a window cleaner, Confessions of a taxi driver, these sorts of soft...

00:36:44.69
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, yeah. We see the actor or the director or what?

00:36:49.94
alexei sayle
He was the actor, yeah.

00:36:51.15
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, yeah.

00:36:51.28
alexei sayle
say So, I mean, and we just... ah we just shared a car with him to Swansea I think and then the train back to London and we had such a lovely time talking to him he seemed such a sweet guy that uh you know it's just one of those really magical encounters when you still have I mean which sort of do happen, um a few of those like Saul Williams that happen at literary festivals.

00:37:23.54
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:37:24.30
alexei sayle
um But he was just such a, um and really interesting in a way, because then he had this, he was actually born in Southport, caught polio when he was nine and was in hospital for a year and Then, but anyway, he sort of, you know, he's a very good looking young man. And he, he, he first of all had this career with, he worked with Lindsay. Well, he worked, he his first film role, I think, is this character Keating in If, but he'd worked with Pasolini and he'd worked with all these in interesting and directors. Then he made, I think, probably a terrible mistake of starring in, um,

00:38:04.78
alexei sayle
the series of kind of soft porn British films.

00:38:07.96
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yep.

00:38:08.42
alexei sayle
And then if you look at his filmography on Wikipedia, it sort of stops at 1988 and doesn't, in terms of movies and doesn't start again until 2010 or something.

00:38:19.53
alexei sayle
So, I mean, it was, clearly they were so yeah I hope he got well paid for it but anyway now he lives on go the island of Gozo and that is also where they filmed the Madame Blanc mysteries for channel five and he he's a he's a series Gozo it's next to Malta

00:38:34.65
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
The Island of what?

00:38:40.70
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Okay, it's a fun name.

00:38:41.65
alexei sayle
and uh he that's where they film it so they film it on the island he lives on and uh uh it uh i think it's a big success for channel five it's supposed to be set in france but it's actually filmed on gosa and he's a series regular in that a series reg as we say in the business and but i just thought it was I thought it was, um, I just, so that's, that's my connection with, uh, that film really is with, f is, is, is, is Robin Asquith.

00:39:13.73
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
With if.

00:39:18.03
alexei sayle
I just want to talk a little bit about that.

00:39:18.77
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It's done a lot recently as well, yeah.

00:39:21.07
alexei sayle
Yeah. He's, he's sort of, his career is now revived.

00:39:23.47
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Inside number nine, Corey, Hollyoaks, okay, a lot of soaps, his doctors.

00:39:26.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:39:31.67
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:39:32.85
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, he narrates a documentary about Gozo.

00:39:36.63
alexei sayle
OK.

00:39:38.27
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
He was in U-571.

00:39:39.34
alexei sayle
He's also in he was in that film.

00:39:40.55
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, go carry on.

00:39:41.21
alexei sayle
That's right. Yeah, he's also in that that weird documentary that Stuart Lee made about that Birmingham band.

00:39:49.45
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh yeah.

00:39:49.57
alexei sayle
He's in that and he actually it's weird because everybody in that's been filmed in like Cumberland or somewhere. But he actually he said he filmed it himself and then just sent it to Stuart in the way that you can do these days.

00:40:04.09
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
yeah robin asked with oh let's get a show i bet he's got some stories i'm

00:40:04.30
alexei sayle
um Yeah, so he's a nice, very, very, very sweet man.

00:40:12.47
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
trying to remember who keating was in if

00:40:14.78
alexei sayle
Yeah, I can't remember. The character's name is used at some point. I did, because I was looking out for him. I didn't recognize the younger him. But anyway, it's, ah I don't know what, I mean, it's, I don't know.

00:40:27.34
alexei sayle
What did you think of it?

00:40:29.38
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
well you always make fun of my intro so i'm not doing one this week uh you don't get one uh but it's about god it's kind of a metaphor for like a revolution anti-imperialist revolution kind of in the guise of um kind of a school shooting basically

00:40:35.11
alexei sayle
I'm sorry.

00:40:47.84
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:40:53.32
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. I thought I did think that in a way that I just thought, of yeah, it's funny. I did have that. I thought this is actually a school.

00:41:00.06
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
yeah really shocked me at the end there no it was shocking but when i read the um description of the film before i pressed play

00:41:00.36
alexei sayle
Yeah, which is, you know, yeah, which is kind of a, you didn't, you didn't know that was coming. You didn't know. I wonder what how that kind of stands up in, in, in in the modern world in a way.

00:41:17.74
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:41:18.27
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I thought, Oh, okay. He's going to start kind of a revolution and get all the boys to kind of tie up the teachers and take over the school and like, you know, throw pies at each other and stuff. But it, they literally just find a stash of assault rifles, go up on the roof and just start shooting everyone.

00:41:28.36
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:41:32.57
alexei sayle
Yeah. Not assault rifles. There's a brand, there's nine millimeter stands and I think it's a 38 Webley.

00:41:37.69
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Here we go. They have a mortar.

00:41:42.40
alexei sayle
Yeah, they have a mortar and yeah. Um,

00:41:45.50
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And the girl has the gun that I want in the revolution, remember? Or when, no, when we start a socialist army and we get to pick our own weapons.

00:41:53.40
alexei sayle
Which one? The revolver?

00:41:54.64
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It looked like a Magnum kind of thing. Yeah, it was a revolver.

00:41:57.07
alexei sayle
Yeah, it's 38 Webley, I think.

00:41:59.92
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um

00:42:00.16
alexei sayle
Or possibly in 44.

00:42:01.53
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So you've got this boarding school and it's just called College House. It's part, I guess it's part of a wider school, but they're in college, it focuses on

00:42:08.82
alexei sayle
Yeah, in fact, the guy that was recording my audiobook had gone there, interestingly enough.

00:42:15.67
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Bloody hell.

00:42:16.15
alexei sayle
It's looking at in Wikipedia, it's actually an agglomeration of a lot of different, quite a lot of different locations. because you thought How did these public schools allow them to film this? area So it's actually quite a few different, but it's basically Cheltenham College, I think, or something like that.

00:42:33.03
alexei sayle
It's in Cheltenham anyway.

00:42:33.83
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And it didn't look, it looked, didn't look period. It looked of the time. So it was, it's made in 1968. Do you think it was set in 1968?

00:42:41.30
alexei sayle
Yeah. Oh, it's very 1968. Were you alive then that you went away?

00:42:44.02
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
okay hell no um must have been remastered it's perfect yeah so it's set in this boarding school um it's very boarding schooly so it's like boys all on top of each other yeah

00:42:46.26
alexei sayle
No, it yes, it it reeked. I mean, actually I was, I was impressed that the print was very clean. it It looked really crisp and the sound was good, which is not, yeah, it must've been remastered, but um very well done.

00:43:01.30
alexei sayle
ah Yeah.

00:43:08.28
alexei sayle
Yeah, you do think that's what our ruling class, that's how still how they are brought up, you know, and what a kind of horrible perverted kind of pervert atmosphere is.

00:43:12.82
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
yeah

00:43:19.08
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
yeah like from very young age putting like pornographic images on pinning them up on their little walls uh making fun of each other's bodies and uh ethnicities and lots of bullying and then but then also a lot of camaraderie amongst the boys as well

00:43:32.17
alexei sayle
Yeah, and corporal punches. Yeah.

00:43:38.42
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um And you get a kind of, there's a B story of like the younger, like the year sevens, basically. And like, there's a new boy, Jute, being being guided through the school.

00:43:45.84
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:43:47.70
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And I guess that's kind of the audience's um conduit into like learning.

00:43:48.36
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:43:52.57
alexei sayle
But none of this is done in a particularly linear or conventional way, is it? It's all, it's very sick. I mean, also that thing of yeah pictures of Che Guevara and the war in Vietnam and

00:44:04.01
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hmm.

00:44:05.24
alexei sayle
it It did bring, I remember, it was before I lived in London, but I remember visiting London for demos and seeing the poster which was featured, the hand grenade, very prominently. And just thinking, wow, this is, wow, London man, this is,

00:44:24.78
alexei sayle
This is where it's at. It's also the first screen performance, certainly by Malcolm McDowney. You think what an extraordinary screen presence he is just that, that smile and yeah.

00:44:32.35
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
absolutely stunning he's got like this ballet dancer energy about the way he moves and he's so graceful and precise with his movement and and and just character well and so yeah you've got him and his two mates they're older kids they're in sixth form and they're kind of the main characters of the story

00:44:44.28
alexei sayle
Yeah. And then this is what I mean. Yeah.

00:44:55.36
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:44:56.33
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And they are like the rebels of the school. And they're the ones with like the Vietnam War pinups in their little hangout room.

00:45:03.78
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:45:05.04
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
They smoke, they drink vodka. They escape from the school going to town at one point. And they slowly become more and more rebellious until it reaches the crux of the film, which is the so the kind of shoot them up that we mentioned, because they are punished for who they are.

00:45:25.07
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:45:25.50
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
ah They are made examples of, they're punished quite severely, and so that triggers them to shoot up the place. Now, that's the description of the film.

00:45:33.67
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:45:35.42
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
The teachers are cunts, ah most of them. There's a couple of cool characters in there.

00:45:39.34
alexei sayle
Oh, it's such an awesome thing, over meant yeah, but it's also, in i mean Arthur Lowe, Captain Mannering, of course, is in there, and he'll be interested in He chose some, re apart from um Dad's army, he did some really interesting work, Arthur, though.

00:45:57.36
alexei sayle
And maybe look into that a bit more.

00:46:00.21
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Who did he play in that?

00:46:01.90
alexei sayle
He was the sort of housemaster. he He wasn't, he's not in it much, but you see a scene where he's sitting up in bed and his wife's playing the flute.

00:46:05.43
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Uh-huh.

00:46:07.95
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:46:11.84
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Mrs. Kemp is playing the flute and he's very like low kind of traditional song and it can be heard throughout the building.

00:46:13.26
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:46:18.59
alexei sayle
yeah Yeah, but he's ah he's an interesting, he he did quite a few kind of alternatives.

00:46:20.03
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It was funny little character.

00:46:23.90
alexei sayle
The ruling class, he's also is in which he has a major role. So it'd be interesting to know, I saw him in Panto the day before he died.

00:46:36.67
alexei sayle
Mother Goose at the Victoria Palace Theatre, I think it was, with Ian Lavender.

00:46:43.27
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
before his goose was cooked um that's who they hired for sitcoms was were these like thespian sorts at the time wasn't it

00:46:44.05
alexei sayle
He did not well.

00:46:48.84
alexei sayle
Well, it's interesting those people could move between sitcoms. I mean, these, you know, sitcoms have got 22 million viewers.

00:46:59.57
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:01.60
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
didn't really hire comedians typically but the whips you got the whips of the house which are like so what explain what a whip is are they are they students or not are they graduates what's going on with whips

00:47:01.63
alexei sayle
Yeah. I think he'd like to drink as well. Yeah.

00:47:08.88
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:47:16.09
alexei sayle
No, the students, it's I mean, it's a system that they also, I think they still have a places like Eaton, which is that the boys in the upper sixth get a lot of privileges and they're the sort of, they're the paramilitary force that maintains discipline, really. It's, they're the guadia surveil of Calabinere, of the school, really. they um And they get a lot of privileges.

00:47:46.82
alexei sayle
they yeah They have their own kind of room. they I mean, they call them scum, don't they, in that in that school?

00:47:55.18
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
No, they call the little ones scum.

00:47:56.96
alexei sayle
go Yeah, they're their servants. The ones you're scumming for partridge now or whatever.

00:48:01.87
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:48:02.09
alexei sayle
They call it fag. I don't know whether they still do it, Ian, but um ah yeah know you'd be somebody's fag. And you'd start out. It's a waste. you know it's so

00:48:11.78
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And they are very kind of inappropriate with these boys. There's a scene where he's like being really flirtatious about the boy and it's really,

00:48:18.05
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:48:21.18
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And the the scum in question, Bobby Phillips is his name. I thought that's Keir Starmer when he was a boy. He looked like him and then there was a scene where he's like, I want to become a lawyer when I'm older.

00:48:32.67
alexei sayle
is

00:48:34.68
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
He he says, no, it wasn't so bad.

00:48:34.66
alexei sayle
He's very pretty, but a terrible, terrible actor. He's so bad in that scene with the other boys, the gymnast.

00:48:44.18
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And they end up, I think they fancy each other.

00:48:48.03
alexei sayle
yeah yeah it's yeah Yeah, I mean, there's ah it's rather lyrical way where Bobby Phillips is watching the boy who's one of um the gang, isn't he he?

00:49:01.40
alexei sayle
I guess it's a double, but he just does this exo this gymnastics on a bar, kind of what you call it.

00:49:10.51
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:49:11.42
alexei sayle
And it's just it's you can see that ah kind of the love of the desire and

00:49:16.49
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So not the parallel bars, but like the higher one where you're fully swinging around it and then you jump off at the end.

00:49:19.05
alexei sayle
the high bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:21.75
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
He does this amazing routine on it and they're like looking at each other.

00:49:22.86
alexei sayle
Yeah, it's a very, it's, yeah.

00:49:24.79
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah. Very lustfully or romance, more romantic than lustful actually.

00:49:27.39
alexei sayle
Yes. Romantically, let's, let's not solve it.

00:49:29.99
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah. Um, nothing crude actually happens visually in the film.

00:49:31.44
alexei sayle
Yeah. ah

00:49:36.36
alexei sayle
No, it's true.

00:49:36.59
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It's all, it's all like looks and maybe a ah touch, you know, but, um, actually, yeah, apart from with the girl, there's the naked wrestling moment.

00:49:40.53
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:49:46.36
alexei sayle
Nate, brief, brief interlude of naked wrestling.

00:49:48.03
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Very brief. Uh, yeah.

00:49:50.84
alexei sayle
And he steals a BSA motorbike. It's amazing he could get it.

00:49:53.98
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Well, I was going to ask you what's BFA. I've never heard of that brand.

00:49:56.80
alexei sayle
Have you never had BSA, Birmingham Small Arms Company?

00:49:57.83
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
No.

00:50:01.01
alexei sayle
So they were, they manufactured rifles and air rifles, but they also manufactured done motorbikes.

00:50:07.29
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Wow.

00:50:08.69
alexei sayle
I mean, I'm not a huge expert on motorbikes, but they, I mean, I noticed that one, for instance, I mean, it's a 68, but it still had drum brakes at a time when I would have thought comparable Japanese model would have had disc brakes by then.

00:50:23.17
alexei sayle
ah it They were all, um I think the BSA factory might have been taken over and operated, I was at the Norton factory, was taken over and operated as a workers cooperative for a while. that They made these bikes which had been the most, ah dominated the world in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s but by the by the 60s, they were be they were um starting to be, you know, Triumph, Norton, BSA.

00:50:53.49
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hmm.

00:50:55.36
alexei sayle
They'd started to be overshadowed by Japanese machines, which were much more reliable and much more ah much cheaper and much more technologically advanced.

00:51:01.72
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Right.

00:51:06.57
alexei sayle
But I did, I was, I mean, they did i mean when they're in that motorbike, showroom. They look so beautiful, all those British machines.

00:51:17.83
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:51:21.84
alexei sayle
there there was you could You could see the attraction, really. there were They were exquisite, they just the look of them, really. in

00:51:30.47
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So describe that scene, what happens.

00:51:33.92
alexei sayle
Well, it just i mean it's they go into a motorbike um showroom and then just steal a bike, really. Then they ride it for a bit and then they call into a kind of roadside cafe and the girl is, the unnamed girl is working there. And then there's a bit of sort of embarrassing kind of mime, or I don't know what you'd call it really. Looks a bit like something you do in a theater workshop, apart from the naked bit. um And then, ah I did think at that point, you know, yeah what we what we make actors do sometimes is so embarrassing. I think that's stuff.

00:52:12.65
alexei sayle
um um and then they they kind of yes that's also a bit yeah that's also yeah that you could see that from the lens of 2024 has been quite dubious really.

00:52:14.87
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
but he like forces a kiss on her and then she slaps him but then later you think oh were they kind of role-playing do they already know each other

00:52:33.72
alexei sayle
Anywho so they still then three of them got right off on this BSA and then there's a scene with those jumpers and riding across the field and the girls sort of standing up on the saddle and then, and then it

00:52:44.77
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, it's beautiful. The shots of them riding the bikes are really well done.

00:52:49.80
alexei sayle
is, it is, yeah. It's very, I mean, I was impressed with the with the clarity and the and just, yeah, the it's beautifully framed and yeah.

00:52:56.77
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, the movement of the camera that hats off to the cinematographer, there's a shot of them going round and round about and the camera is clearly placed in the center of the roundabout and it just tracks them so perfectly and it just looks so gorgeous.

00:53:00.36
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:53:07.78
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. I noticed my friend Stephen Frears was ah listed as an assistant on it, really.

00:53:14.95
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, great.

00:53:15.69
alexei sayle
It's related to become Britain's, probably Britain's most successful film director. Um, and but.

00:53:24.16
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So we have to mention the series of black and white scenes that are scattered throughout the film.

00:53:28.21
alexei sayle
Yes.

00:53:31.69
alexei sayle
Yes, I think they were taken to be, I don't know, ah they were taken to be just art very arty.

00:53:31.94
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
what

00:53:38.13
alexei sayle
But in fact, I think, well, I read and I thought it was just because they ran out money in black and white stock was cheaper than color stock. But Wikipedia says that it was just um just easier to light.

00:53:52.63
alexei sayle
You know, but obviously, it was just easier to

00:53:53.68
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, cause they're darker scenes.

00:53:56.94
alexei sayle
Well, there was there were there were scenes, I think the first scene that they shot in black and white, was which was um in the big church.

00:53:57.57
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:54:09.19
alexei sayle
And that it's a lot easier to light that for black and white rather than color, really.

00:54:13.64
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, that's, I thought there was some symbolism there.

00:54:13.76
alexei sayle
so

00:54:16.00
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I, I, by the end, I thought that all the black and white scenes were fantasies, but then

00:54:21.46
alexei sayle
Yeah. No, I think it's just economics. I know, I know. They kind of made a virtue of it, I think. I think Lindsay Anderson um liked it and um yeah did choose to use it, you know, to use it artistically.

00:54:38.26
alexei sayle
that it First of all, it was an economic decision and then it became an aesthetic one and later on.

00:54:43.54
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
All right, I thought they were either fancies or they were all the scenes that had something to do with the romance in them.

00:54:49.82
alexei sayle
I don't think there's any it's it's all it's all completely random.

00:54:50.05
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Because you've got

00:54:53.33
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
oh because the black yeah because there's the black and white scene where mrs kemp is walking around the school naked while none of the boys are there there's um then yeah there's this black and white scene of of some of the little boys having a fry up which isn't either a fantasy or romantic um there's what but when they're rolling around on the floor naked which clearly was a fantasy that didn't actually happen he was imagining it that was black and white

00:54:58.88
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:55:11.09
alexei sayle
sad I don't know. I don't know. Right.

00:55:21.84
alexei sayle
Right.

00:55:22.48
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And then there's a black and white scene of the older boy with baby kissed armor in bed together, not doing anything, just kind of lying there arm in arm.

00:55:25.76
alexei sayle
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:55:32.16
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
ah

00:55:33.42
alexei sayle
ah yeah Yeah.

00:55:35.38
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And also the name of the film, If, is what kept putting this fantasy idea in my head. I don't think the shooting happened.

00:55:44.53
alexei sayle
Right.

00:55:45.40
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I don't think a lot of the extreme situations actually happened in the narrative.

00:55:49.90
alexei sayle
Right.

00:55:50.26
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I think they were just, projected fantasies of the main characters.

00:55:53.86
alexei sayle
Okay. Maybe.

00:55:56.05
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Cause that that's the last thing. He's like shooting up the school, bro dooo-oooo people dying.

00:56:00.74
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:56:01.69
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And then it just goes to black and it says, if like, so it's like, what if this was reality?

00:56:04.34
alexei sayle
yeah i didn't read Yeah. I didn't really read much kind of critical appraisal of what people thought it was about. I mean, it was it was very of its time. You would see you know, every week you would see films are sort of a bit like that.

00:56:20.75
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hmm.

00:56:22.76
alexei sayle
I mean, it was, I mean, in a sense, it was, um um and particularly now in movies are so kind of, banal and just, you know, all exactly the same.

00:56:36.93
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, yes, this really

00:56:37.01
alexei sayle
ah I mean, Marvel fucking, you know, I mean, it's just all so awful. And, you know, the sort of lack so lacking in, in any kind of interesting thought that was, you know, a lot of a lot of movies in the, in the cinema in the late 60s and 70s were full of innovation and thought and experimentation.

00:56:58.35
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Experimentation. Yeah.

00:56:59.96
alexei sayle
Yes, that's the way that I'm reaching for.

00:57:01.90
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, back when films were allowed to, but ah that's before they would cost $500 million dollars to make.

00:57:02.21
alexei sayle
I mean, yeah.

00:57:08.09
alexei sayle
Well that, yeah.

00:57:08.34
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And that's why, you know, people had room to experiment because they didn't have to in ensure it would be a success, which the only thing that does is ensure it's a boring kind of run of the mill, same as every other film situation.

00:57:13.94
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:57:21.15
alexei sayle
Yeah, it said it was very influenced by Jan Vigo, and it's a long time, I think back at articles since I've seen a Vigo film with Zazi Don La Metro, I think, most famous of of his films. But again, I think that they were Uh, you know, there was an all, there was a great deal and people were doing things for the first time, you know, doing things.

00:57:42.86
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah.

00:57:43.84
alexei sayle
There was still, you know, they were invent, you know, every, you feel sometimes like everything's, everything's been done now. You might want to stop. There are literally no stories left to tell, you know, since every movie is, he's a CIA a assassin, a special forces assassin living in the suburbs.

00:58:03.03
alexei sayle
You see that fucking idea over and over again.

00:58:04.49
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
No, but shit can, there things can still, they're just not allowed to try anything new.

00:58:10.15
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:58:10.27
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Risks aren't allowed to be made anymore unless you're just doing it yourself with your own money or small investors.

00:58:12.03
alexei sayle
yeah

00:58:16.61
alexei sayle
yeah

00:58:17.17
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
If you're doing any studio project, you're not allowed to take any risks. And that is sad, but there are new ideas.

00:58:20.26
alexei sayle
no

00:58:22.27
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
We're convinced now that all ideas have been done. They've not, we're just not allowed to do them. And that's the annoying part, but um

00:58:29.07
alexei sayle
yeah Except here on this podcast.

00:58:31.50
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Exactly, Limondo.

00:58:33.24
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:58:34.36
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Speaking of scum, it reminded me of the film Scum, which wasn't made until 11 years later.

00:58:40.76
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:58:41.84
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But ah apart from the word scum being used lots.

00:58:43.07
alexei sayle
Well, I mean, a different yeah, a different I mean, a sense of different tradition.

00:58:44.86
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
but

00:58:46.94
alexei sayle
But yeah, I mean, Lindsay Anderson was also I mean, he made this sporting life with made with their Robert Harris, which is about Richard Harrison, which is about um rugby.

00:58:59.34
alexei sayle
And it was in it yeah it was in that sort of Saturday night and Sunday morning, loneliness at a long distance from it.

00:58:59.98
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
ah

00:59:05.82
alexei sayle
It was that ah new wave of British filmmaking, um working class themes. And also, of course, he did a lot of, I remember, actually, I saw quite a few of them.

00:59:18.15
alexei sayle
He directed a lot of plays at the Royal Court in the early 70s.

00:59:24.31
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
ah very different to our last film, broadcast news in terms of tone and pace and dialogue.

00:59:30.01
alexei sayle
Yes, yes. Yeah.

00:59:31.98
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But I'd say yeah, it's much more artistic as we discussed, not more experimentation. And yeah, less clean, but only to a degree, the performances were outstanding.

00:59:38.11
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah

00:59:43.95
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Those whips were so hateable, the guy, the the upper sixth form guys, fucking loathsome.

00:59:48.21
alexei sayle
yeah yeah. David Cameron.

00:59:51.21
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So

00:59:53.59
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
yeah uh it prompted me to look up like something a bit morbid but i ended up finding something quite funny out of it i wanted to look up when did the first school shooting in america happen because this film was from 1968 and i was like i was wondering are they inspired by american school shootings because it took me by such surprise that last scene but um

01:00:07.63
alexei sayle
Right.

01:00:19.03
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So I looked up, uh, oldest school shootings in, in the USA.

01:00:23.90
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:00:25.07
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And yeah, they'd been happening since the 1760s was the first one.

01:00:31.86
alexei sayle
Really?

01:00:32.89
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But it was 1764 in Pennsylvania, 11 deaths. This one's sad, it's not funny, but the Enoch Brown School, four Native Americans entered the school and shot the teacher and scalped him, and then they scalped 10 students and beat them to death.

01:00:48.57
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yeah, so I'm sure that was like, you know, they must've built a school on their land or something, or awful.

01:00:48.92
alexei sayle
Okay. Yeah.

01:00:54.87
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But then there are a couple weird ones. Then there isn't another one till the 1800s. um when it just seemed like everyone had a gun and it was really normal to just have a gun.

01:01:06.78
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
A lot of these are just like a boy was showing off his gun and shot someone by accident.

01:01:07.24
alexei sayle
Alright.

01:01:13.59
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
One of them in 1856, the schoolmaster warned students not to harm his tame sparrow, threatening death. ah One of the boys stepped on the bird and killed it. When the boy came back to school, the master took the boy into a private rule room and strangled him.

01:01:31.37
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
And then the boy's father went to the school and shot the guy.

01:01:36.67
alexei sayle
gra

01:01:44.07
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Hold on, there is a funny one in here, wait for it.

01:01:46.76
alexei sayle
but his sir

01:01:54.13
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
In 1867 in Buffalo, New York, 13-year-old Arthur Day secretly took a loaded pistol to his school to shoot a dog, he said a bit in him.

01:02:03.24
alexei sayle
I'm planning.

01:02:05.35
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
ah But while playing with the pistol, he accidentally shot his mate. ah Injured, not these aren't all deaths.

01:02:10.78
alexei sayle
All right.

01:02:11.76
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
These aren't all deaths.

01:02:12.80
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:02:13.26
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um

01:02:18.11
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Oh, this one, this is an injury as well, not a death. In 1872, at the All Girls Union School, 17-year-old Thomas McGiffin shot and wounded the principal because the principal refused to deliver a a Valentine's Day note to one of the girls.

01:02:38.21
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um

01:02:38.38
alexei sayle
speaking about A long history of gun related craziness in the United States then.

01:02:40.93
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But surprise, surprise. um But is it normal for schools to have a stock of guns like we saw in this film?

01:02:53.40
alexei sayle
Yeah, because for the OTC, the Officer Training Corps, yeah, all public schools.

01:02:57.76
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
That's what that was, was it yeah because there's a whole section of the film where they're all wearing army uniforms running around.

01:02:59.09
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:03:01.59
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no public schools. Yeah.

01:03:06.29
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um

01:03:06.38
alexei sayle
they're a mess up. Yeah, they'll have they'll have three or three Leonfils and yeah, they were maybe a bit more elaborately armed and normal.

01:03:18.59
alexei sayle
But yeah, it was yeah, you'd have you'd have and I suppose I guess a stock of live ammunition as well somewhere on the premises. I mean, most of it would be blanks obviously.

01:03:30.59
alexei sayle
Yeah, but they there they were training sharpshooting and shit like that.

01:03:35.42
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
So yeah, I'm surprised there weren't more shootings in in British schools. I'd never heard of one happening.

01:03:41.21
alexei sayle
Yeah, but it was all locked away. You know, you couldn't really get your hands, you

01:03:46.53
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Well, this Wikipedia page list of school shootings in the United States before 2000 is full of really like crazy little stories, often like ah mini stories of of like crimes of passion and like little miniature glimpses into these children's lives.

01:04:01.71
alexei sayle
Yeah. I don't mean it is.

01:04:02.62
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But then it gets depressing in the 90s.

01:04:04.03
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:04:05.65
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
It gets really depressing. Stop reading before that point.

01:04:07.01
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:09.05
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Right. We've done our film club.

01:04:12.07
alexei sayle
I'd be interested to hear what the listeners think.

01:04:12.12
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I've hit oh about our film.

01:04:17.21
alexei sayle
yeah you view yeah Your views are moderately important to me.

01:04:20.06
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Yes.

01:04:23.48
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I wanted you guys to message us questions and and opinions before we did Film Club. I have to say, disappointing turnout from our um from our listeners, so from our readers. Do better, children. And we've got a couple of weeks to decide what our next film is.

01:04:47.69
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:04:48.20
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I ascending your thoughts on if I knew, I know a lot of people out there watched it.

01:04:50.67
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:53.18
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Um, right.

01:04:56.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:04:56.86
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I think that's time. Lex.

01:04:58.36
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:59.97
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Love you.

01:05:00.99
alexei sayle
I love you too. um how

01:05:03.62
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Um, that was fun. Oh, wait, fuck the tax man this year. I have to say, and, and solidarity to all self-employed people out there who had to do their own taxes.

01:05:15.61
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
um You know, they surprised us with a new rule this year.

01:05:19.13
alexei sayle
Today, it's a stomach.

01:05:21.47
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Very last minute, but now we are paying our, I don't fully understand this because it all just came crashing on my head, but you have to pay the next year's taxes based on an, based on an estimate according to the previous years.

01:05:22.57
alexei sayle
Stomach and wrist.

01:05:29.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:05:37.61
alexei sayle
Reading.

01:05:40.76
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
But because this is the first time it's happened,

01:05:43.01
alexei sayle
Reading.

01:05:45.06
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
Cause it's the first time it's happened. I've had to pay both years taxes in one go.

01:05:48.53
alexei sayle
That's terrible. I don't know what what's the what the hell's going on.

01:05:52.93
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I don't understand it. If anyone out there can explain to me this new rule about the taxes, it has ruined my fucking week amongst other things.

01:05:54.15
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

01:05:58.07
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:06:00.12
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
I've had a really bad week and this hour with you, Alex has been the highlight of my week. I have to say, and you listeners, it's always a pleasure to be in your company.

01:06:04.76
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:06:07.71
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what somebody can, if we have an accountant amongst us, maybe they can tell us what, what the fuck, what, what up with that? Yo.

01:06:16.86
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
What up with that, please.

01:06:18.01
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:06:18.78
Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal
All right.

01:06:19.41
alexei sayle
Alright, I'll bet I got you guys a phone call. Alright, bye bye!