1 00:00:53,022 --> 00:00:54,903 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Hello and welcome to the National Trust 2 00:00:54,923 --> 00:00:58,244 Podcast. I'm Claire Hickinbotham. Before we start 3 00:00:58,264 --> 00:01:00,885 this episode, I'd like to let you know that from April, the 4 00:01:00,905 --> 00:01:03,606 National Trust podcast is changing to bring you more 5 00:01:03,686 --> 00:01:07,387 immersive stories from history and nature. Look out for our new 6 00:01:07,447 --> 00:01:10,308 name and more by giving this show a follow in your favourite 7 00:01:10,348 --> 00:01:11,128 podcast app. 8 00:01:11,848 --> 00:01:14,649 Today we're out walking through the hills of Oxfordshire, the 9 00:01:14,669 --> 00:01:17,870 wetlands of Wicken Fen, the valleys of the Upper Conwy 10 00:01:17,950 --> 00:01:20,831 catchment and the Mourne Mountains in Northern Ireland. 11 00:01:21,491 --> 00:01:24,472 That's quite some trek for a single walk. So join from the 12 00:01:24,492 --> 00:01:27,869 comfort of your home and find out what unites all of these 13 00:01:27,969 --> 00:01:31,272 unique and wonderful landscapes, and how caring for the natural 14 00:01:31,352 --> 00:01:35,574 world is playing a role in the cost and taste of our pints. 15 00:01:41,398 --> 00:01:44,280 I've come today for a bit of a walk that I'm familiar with. So 16 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,902 I’m at Coleshill, which is a village in Oxfordshire, and it's 17 00:01:46,922 --> 00:01:50,284 somewhere I walk a lot with my black lab buddy. 18 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,362 Great rolling hills. Views to the white Horse at Uffington. 19 00:01:57,422 --> 00:02:01,283 The Ridgeway. And at the other side of the estate the land 20 00:02:01,323 --> 00:02:04,045 drops down towards the Thames and it's that direction I'm 21 00:02:04,045 --> 00:02:04,945 going to walk first. 22 00:02:06,946 --> 00:02:10,807 I'm meeting Richard, who looks after the countryside here, and 23 00:02:10,827 --> 00:02:13,329 he's going to explain about some of the work that they do. 24 00:02:15,329 --> 00:02:18,131 We've got to head up through the village. So up the hill past the 25 00:02:18,331 --> 00:02:22,332 National Trust owned cottages. They're all chocolate box. 26 00:02:22,392 --> 00:02:24,753 They're all beautiful. One of which is the Radnor Arms, an 27 00:02:24,773 --> 00:02:28,114 amazing little pub with cosy nooks and crannies in it. 28 00:02:28,435 --> 00:02:30,755 And we're going to have a little stop there later because it 29 00:02:30,775 --> 00:02:34,977 features actually in 100 Great Pub Walks, a book from the 30 00:02:34,977 --> 00:02:38,298 National Trust. And we're going to go on one of those walks. And 31 00:02:38,318 --> 00:02:41,059 hopefully at the end of the day, Richard is going to take me back 32 00:02:41,079 --> 00:02:43,100 to the pub and have a well-earned pint. 33 00:02:48,296 --> 00:02:51,477 We've walked up from the Coleshill Estate office through 34 00:02:51,477 --> 00:02:55,758 the village, past the Radnor Arms, the pub a lovely little 35 00:02:55,798 --> 00:02:59,319 spot to meet Richard Watson, who's one of the countryside 36 00:02:59,399 --> 00:03:01,180 team that looks after the landscape here. 37 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:02,460 Hi, Richard. Nice to meet you. 38 00:03:02,460 --> 00:03:03,180 RICHARD WATSON: Good morning, lovely to meet you! 39 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:04,300 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: I'm assuming you're Richard with 40 00:03:04,340 --> 00:03:07,641 binoculars around your head and wellies on your feet. You are 41 00:03:07,641 --> 00:03:09,142 well equipped. 42 00:03:09,182 --> 00:03:09,482 RICHARD WATSON: I am. 43 00:03:09,682 --> 00:03:11,182 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: This is such a lovely part of the world 44 00:03:11,182 --> 00:03:12,082 to call your office. 45 00:03:12,463 --> 00:03:14,523 RICHARD WATSON: It is. It's fabulous. We're lucky here 46 00:03:14,523 --> 00:03:18,360 because we've got the Cotswolds to the north of us. And then 47 00:03:18,420 --> 00:03:20,842 people go down towards kind of Dorset, Devon and stuff for the 48 00:03:20,842 --> 00:03:23,525 holidays. But it's a bit of a forgotten corner here. But 49 00:03:23,585 --> 00:03:25,626 actually, as you can see, it's beautiful, lovely rolling 50 00:03:25,667 --> 00:03:28,689 countryside with the River Thames, to the north of us here. 51 00:03:28,689 --> 00:03:30,731 So we're looking over the Thames kind of flood plain. 52 00:03:30,731 --> 00:03:32,753 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: And a lot of what we can see dropping down 53 00:03:32,793 --> 00:03:35,735 away in front of us is it's land that the National Trust manages. 54 00:03:36,035 --> 00:03:39,298 RICHARD WATSON: It is. Yes. so, Buscot and Coleshill Estates 55 00:03:40,339 --> 00:03:44,523 amount to 2700 hectares altogether. So, yes, a large, 56 00:03:45,443 --> 00:03:46,124 area of land. 57 00:03:46,408 --> 00:03:48,249 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Unsurprisingly for Richard, the 58 00:03:48,289 --> 00:03:51,031 team and the millions that work outdoors throughout the year, 59 00:03:51,612 --> 00:03:53,173 things can get a bit wet. 60 00:03:53,793 --> 00:03:56,795 But working out what to do in the face of extreme and changing 61 00:03:56,836 --> 00:04:00,298 weather conditions adds to the daily challenge of looking after 62 00:04:00,298 --> 00:04:01,199 the countryside. 63 00:04:02,039 --> 00:04:05,462 A lot of the work that you do around here, as we're looking 64 00:04:05,502 --> 00:04:08,304 down at the Thames, having climbed up to the top of the 65 00:04:08,324 --> 00:04:12,647 hill from the River Cole, hence Coleshill, I guess, you're doing 66 00:04:12,667 --> 00:04:16,229 a lot of work on the River Cole and in the Valley then around 67 00:04:16,229 --> 00:04:19,491 the Thames, because Buscot village has the Thames running 68 00:04:19,531 --> 00:04:20,852 through it doesn't it?. 69 00:04:20,852 --> 00:04:23,393 RICHARD WATSON: It does, so water is a key theme here, both 70 00:04:24,254 --> 00:04:26,895 managing water in the winter or in the summer if there's big 71 00:04:26,955 --> 00:04:30,437 storms trying to reduce flooding, but also then 72 00:04:30,537 --> 00:04:33,289 conversely, in the summer during droughts, trying to keep more of 73 00:04:33,289 --> 00:04:34,560 the water back. 74 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,521 Yeah. Managing the water is, a key theme for us and 75 00:04:37,521 --> 00:04:40,663 increasingly so as the climate is changing, we're getting more 76 00:04:40,683 --> 00:04:42,244 intense, weather events. 77 00:04:44,632 --> 00:04:46,455 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: In the time leading up to meeting Richard, 78 00:04:46,575 --> 00:04:50,220 there had been four major storms in three months putting extra 79 00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:51,722 strains on the landscape. 80 00:04:52,843 --> 00:04:55,687 This has meant that the land Richard looks after alongside 81 00:04:55,747 --> 00:04:59,913 tenant farmers has been subject to intense flooding, causing the 82 00:04:59,953 --> 00:05:02,176 farmers to lose an entire crop. 83 00:05:03,651 --> 00:05:05,212 RICHARD WATSON: So our farm tenants are finding it 84 00:05:05,212 --> 00:05:08,514 increasingly difficult to grow cereal crops. As you can see, 85 00:05:08,514 --> 00:05:10,965 the one in front of us on the top of the hill there was this 86 00:05:10,965 --> 00:05:13,376 was down by the river. It would have been under water on and off 87 00:05:13,456 --> 00:05:15,638 since mid-September, right the way through. 88 00:05:15,678 --> 00:05:18,919 So the farmers have either been unable to plant the cereal crop, 89 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:21,741 or they did manage to get it in the ground. And then floods have 90 00:05:21,761 --> 00:05:23,732 come along and it's been under water for several weeks, and 91 00:05:23,732 --> 00:05:24,623 that would have killed it off. 92 00:05:27,964 --> 00:05:29,986 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: The effects of climate change have been more 93 00:05:30,046 --> 00:05:34,371 noticeable in recent times than ever before. It's not just the 94 00:05:34,391 --> 00:05:38,213 dramatic images of damage we see in the news, but deeper and 95 00:05:38,293 --> 00:05:41,114 longer lasting effects at the top of our food chain. 96 00:05:42,975 --> 00:05:45,656 While farmers are finding it hard to grow the crops they need 97 00:05:45,676 --> 00:05:48,878 to keep the nation fed, the wonky weather is having a knock 98 00:05:48,878 --> 00:05:52,019 on effect for the things we love to treat ourselves with. 99 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,721 In a recent BBC news article, it's reported that the changing 100 00:05:56,741 --> 00:06:00,523 climate is also having an impact on the taste and cost of beer as 101 00:06:00,583 --> 00:06:04,995 well, with researchers from Cambridge University identifying 102 00:06:05,035 --> 00:06:09,419 a growing problem with hotter, drier summers and more intense 103 00:06:09,479 --> 00:06:09,959 winters. 104 00:06:11,741 --> 00:06:15,144 It's in that direction towards Cambridge, where the next stop 105 00:06:15,184 --> 00:06:16,686 on our pub walk begins. 106 00:06:20,069 --> 00:06:23,693 A stone's throw from the Maids head pub is Wicken Fen, the 107 00:06:23,813 --> 00:06:27,208 oldest nature reserve in the National Trust. At no other 108 00:06:27,248 --> 00:06:30,530 place is it more noticeable to trace the fine lines between 109 00:06:30,570 --> 00:06:33,993 what is good for looking after our planet, versus the necessary 110 00:06:34,113 --> 00:06:36,615 agricultural work needed to keep us ticking. 111 00:06:37,256 --> 00:06:40,818 It's there that we meet Ajay Tegala, a ranger, helping to 112 00:06:40,838 --> 00:06:43,641 restore some of the land previously lost to intense 113 00:06:43,681 --> 00:06:44,721 farming practices. 114 00:06:48,585 --> 00:06:52,291 AJAY TEGALA: The Fens of East Anglia once spread for thousands 115 00:06:52,291 --> 00:06:55,312 of square miles really, it was this vast area of reeds of 116 00:06:55,392 --> 00:07:01,655 water, and wildlife. But over the last sort of few centuries, 117 00:07:01,735 --> 00:07:05,717 really, it's gradually been tamed and drained for 118 00:07:05,717 --> 00:07:06,277 agriculture, for development. 119 00:07:06,577 --> 00:07:10,539 So a lot of this happened in the 1600s. A lot of land was drained 120 00:07:10,579 --> 00:07:14,180 then and up into the Victorian times, because it's really good 121 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:15,040 for growing crops. 122 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,822 It's a really good place to feed the nation from. 123 00:07:18,182 --> 00:07:20,042 And of course we've got Cambridge nearby, so that's 124 00:07:20,122 --> 00:07:20,463 growing. 125 00:07:20,483 --> 00:07:24,132 So there’s all this pressure to use the land for man-made 126 00:07:24,392 --> 00:07:28,174 pursuits. So over a period of several years, literally, it was 127 00:07:28,194 --> 00:07:31,495 all lost apart from less than 1%. And Wicken Fen is part of 128 00:07:31,495 --> 00:07:33,956 that less than 1% of original Fen. 129 00:07:34,596 --> 00:07:36,497 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Part of what made The Fens so attractive 130 00:07:36,497 --> 00:07:39,098 for farming. It's peat rich landscape. 131 00:07:39,939 --> 00:07:42,580 AJAY TEGALA: Peat is very good for farming because it has a 132 00:07:42,620 --> 00:07:47,122 high moisture content, and crops need water to grow, so it's the 133 00:07:47,142 --> 00:07:49,883 perfect growing medium for agriculture. 134 00:07:50,907 --> 00:07:52,838 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Peat is a bit of an organic super 135 00:07:52,838 --> 00:07:56,169 material, great for growing, but even better at protecting our 136 00:07:56,189 --> 00:07:56,609 planet. 137 00:07:57,090 --> 00:08:00,871 Peatlands like Wicken Fen amount to just over 10% of the total 138 00:08:00,911 --> 00:08:01,592 land in the UK. 139 00:08:02,612 --> 00:08:05,533 Just that small amount holds more carbon than all of the 140 00:08:05,573 --> 00:08:09,475 forests in France, Germany and Britain combined. There is, 141 00:08:09,535 --> 00:08:10,575 however, a catch. 142 00:08:10,975 --> 00:08:14,637 In order to stay effective at capturing carbon, peat needs to 143 00:08:14,697 --> 00:08:18,219 stay wet and undisturbed, something which historically 144 00:08:18,399 --> 00:08:20,419 hasn't happened. 145 00:08:20,419 --> 00:08:22,441 AJAY TEGALA: When peat is removed from the environment, 146 00:08:22,681 --> 00:08:25,003 whether it be perhaps being ploughed and getting sort of 147 00:08:25,023 --> 00:08:27,965 whipped up into a dust, it can blow away because it's very 148 00:08:28,065 --> 00:08:28,386 fine. 149 00:08:28,706 --> 00:08:32,589 They used to be these big, thick, chocolate coloured clouds 150 00:08:32,769 --> 00:08:35,912 years ago called fen blows. We don't get them so much now, but 151 00:08:35,932 --> 00:08:36,672 occasionally we do. 152 00:08:37,173 --> 00:08:40,055 So that happens. The soil is lost. It literally blows away. 153 00:08:40,415 --> 00:08:44,959 And at the same time, that process releases carbon into the 154 00:08:44,959 --> 00:08:44,969 atmosphere. 155 00:08:44,969 --> 00:08:46,700 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: The draining of the Fens for farming 156 00:08:46,941 --> 00:08:50,523 to gain access to more fertile land, to grow crops on, has been 157 00:08:50,563 --> 00:08:54,406 described as the greatest single ecological catastrophe that has 158 00:08:54,507 --> 00:08:55,768 ever occurred in England. 159 00:08:57,289 --> 00:09:00,251 Part of the work Ajay and the team are undertaking is 160 00:09:00,311 --> 00:09:03,134 restoring as much peatland habitat as possible. 161 00:09:03,914 --> 00:09:06,236 Not only is this helping to tackle the carbon in the 162 00:09:06,236 --> 00:09:10,480 atmosphere, but it's also allowing nature to thrive. And 163 00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:13,382 when it can do that, the positive outcomes keep on 164 00:09:13,462 --> 00:09:13,862 growing. 165 00:09:15,584 --> 00:09:17,245 AJAY TEGALA: The drainage of the Fens had a- 166 00:09:17,525 --> 00:09:21,549 Well, a catastrophic effect on biodiversity and on nature. So 167 00:09:21,629 --> 00:09:24,771 many things were lost. So we've got species that went extinct. 168 00:09:25,052 --> 00:09:28,594 The swallowtail butterfly, for example, hung on. at Wicken Fen 169 00:09:28,614 --> 00:09:32,177 until the 1950s, but even the conservation work we were doing 170 00:09:32,217 --> 00:09:35,880 here wasn't enough to sustain it because, wildlife needs a large 171 00:09:35,961 --> 00:09:36,241 area. 172 00:09:36,721 --> 00:09:38,663 So that's kind of what we're doing here, is we're creating 173 00:09:38,743 --> 00:09:42,386 wider space for nature to have more room to spread and 174 00:09:42,406 --> 00:09:45,969 colonize. And actually, one of the species that were lost 500 175 00:09:46,009 --> 00:09:48,611 years ago was Britain's tallest bird, the crane. 176 00:09:49,019 --> 00:09:52,043 They went extinct due to hunting and loss of habitat, loss of the 177 00:09:52,063 --> 00:09:54,926 wetlands because they nest in remote, reedy spots where 178 00:09:54,926 --> 00:09:55,687 they're undisturbed. 179 00:09:56,668 --> 00:09:59,792 But a few years ago, they made a comeback to Wicken and they're 180 00:09:59,792 --> 00:10:03,556 on the up. So it's been yeah, a huge loss. But it's not 181 00:10:03,596 --> 00:10:05,338 irreversible. And that's the beauty of it. 182 00:10:07,346 --> 00:10:10,047 I mean, Wicken Fen’s an amazing place. So much history, so many 183 00:10:10,167 --> 00:10:13,368 wildlife species recorded. But it is just a little fragment in 184 00:10:13,388 --> 00:10:17,350 a desert really surrounded by intensively managed land. 185 00:10:17,730 --> 00:10:22,292 So much has been lost and as good as Wicken itself is, it's 186 00:10:22,292 --> 00:10:24,233 so small and it's almost like an upside down saucer. 187 00:10:24,773 --> 00:10:27,934 It's kind of like a little mound surrounded by lower lying 188 00:10:28,214 --> 00:10:28,575 ground. 189 00:10:28,935 --> 00:10:31,856 And that means that the water, by the nature of gravity, drains 190 00:10:31,896 --> 00:10:32,196 away. 191 00:10:32,696 --> 00:10:35,377 And so we're constantly trying to keep it wet so those species 192 00:10:35,377 --> 00:10:38,607 that need that wet environment have the habitat they need to 193 00:10:38,647 --> 00:10:39,127 thrive. 194 00:10:43,090 --> 00:10:44,771 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: When it comes to working with gravity, 195 00:10:45,232 --> 00:10:47,974 one of the more challenging spots for peatland restoration 196 00:10:48,294 --> 00:10:49,615 is on the side of a mountain. 197 00:10:50,575 --> 00:10:53,477 And it's there where our next pub walk takes place. 198 00:10:58,281 --> 00:11:00,943 Around the peaks and valleys of the Mourne Mountains in Northern 199 00:11:01,083 --> 00:11:04,825 Ireland are some stunning walks for the more adventurous, with a 200 00:11:04,845 --> 00:11:08,604 cosy rest stop, the Harbour House Inn and Macken’s Bar in 201 00:11:08,664 --> 00:11:09,244 Newcastle. 202 00:11:11,086 --> 00:11:14,788 Like Wicken Fen, the area is cared for by a team of rangers, 203 00:11:15,288 --> 00:11:18,811 one of which is James Fisher, who has some unique ways of 204 00:11:18,851 --> 00:11:20,172 keeping the peatlands healthy. 205 00:11:21,633 --> 00:11:23,874 JAMES FISHER: Whenever we look at the plants that are growing 206 00:11:23,934 --> 00:11:27,537 here, it actually it would come out is that as almost an acid 207 00:11:27,557 --> 00:11:31,780 grassland or dry heath because there's so little water is 208 00:11:31,820 --> 00:11:34,782 actually being retained by the deep peat here. 209 00:11:35,342 --> 00:11:39,085 So what we're doing in the erosion gullies is constructing 210 00:11:39,446 --> 00:11:44,150 small timber dams. And where we have shallower gradients we use, 211 00:11:45,071 --> 00:11:45,671 bunds. 212 00:11:45,971 --> 00:11:48,293 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: A bund is a type of embankment, sort of like 213 00:11:48,293 --> 00:11:51,556 a dam that's designed to keep water in one place. 214 00:11:53,838 --> 00:11:55,059 The bunds that have been created at the Mournes have been made 215 00:11:55,079 --> 00:11:57,742 with some special help from some woolly creatures. 216 00:11:58,702 --> 00:12:01,925 JAMES FISHER: The bunds themselves, which, it's really 217 00:12:02,005 --> 00:12:05,427 interesting, we've been trialling the use of sheep well, 218 00:12:05,667 --> 00:12:06,528 to make the bunds. 219 00:12:06,968 --> 00:12:11,350 These would normally be made from the coir, which is a 220 00:12:11,610 --> 00:12:13,511 byproduct of that sort of coconut fibre. 221 00:12:13,751 --> 00:12:16,972 If we can use the sheep wool which is from the sheep that are 222 00:12:17,012 --> 00:12:20,814 actually grazing the site, it's a good use of that wool. 223 00:12:20,854 --> 00:12:23,995 And it's, it allows circularity to the process. 224 00:12:25,316 --> 00:12:29,517 Whenever we install these dams, the water then collects behind 225 00:12:29,537 --> 00:12:32,419 them. We're not trying to keep the water on the mountain as 226 00:12:32,439 --> 00:12:36,040 such, just to slow it enough that the surrounding landscape 227 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,342 then starts to wet up and we get the regeneration of some of the 228 00:12:41,082 --> 00:12:44,784 peat building plants, such as the Sphagnum Moss and the 229 00:12:44,784 --> 00:12:45,244 sedges. 230 00:12:45,984 --> 00:12:47,885 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: By allowing these plants to grow and then 231 00:12:47,965 --> 00:12:51,166 naturally decay in order to form the peat, it’s hoped that this 232 00:12:51,226 --> 00:12:54,628 can kickstart some organic regeneration, but it's a very 233 00:12:54,768 --> 00:12:57,409 slow process. 234 00:12:57,409 --> 00:12:59,690 JAMES FISHER: Peat forms at something like a millimetre a 235 00:12:59,770 --> 00:13:03,827 year, so you can imagine the length of time it takes for any 236 00:13:03,927 --> 00:13:05,488 sort of depth of peat to accumulate. 237 00:13:06,028 --> 00:13:09,729 But, over time, that forms a thick blanket over the 238 00:13:09,769 --> 00:13:12,890 landscape, which is why we call it a blanket bog. 239 00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:15,871 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: The final stop on our pub walk takes us to 240 00:13:15,951 --> 00:13:20,512 North Wales and the Upper Conwy catchment. The area accounts for 241 00:13:20,612 --> 00:13:24,213 3% of the total land in Wales, which is roughly equivalent to 242 00:13:24,213 --> 00:13:25,594 the size of the Isle of Wight. 243 00:13:27,046 --> 00:13:29,708 With an area that vast, there are too many great watering 244 00:13:29,768 --> 00:13:33,130 holes and walks to mention fully but aside from the physical work 245 00:13:33,170 --> 00:13:37,212 of restoring the peatland within it, Ranger Dewi Davis explains 246 00:13:37,232 --> 00:13:39,713 that it's the connection with the people in the landscape that 247 00:13:39,753 --> 00:13:41,515 can really help to make a difference. 248 00:13:42,935 --> 00:13:46,878 DEWI DAVIS: The area that I work in is to the northeast of Eryri 249 00:13:47,038 --> 00:13:50,200 National Park, also known as Snowdonia National Park, and 250 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,317 it's basically the river catchment of Afon Conwy. The 251 00:13:54,317 --> 00:13:54,666 river Conwy. 252 00:13:54,666 --> 00:13:58,168 It starts in the uplands of somewhere called Y Migneint and 253 00:13:58,208 --> 00:14:01,430 it flows down all the way to Conwy itself, where the famous 254 00:14:01,470 --> 00:14:02,231 Conwy Castle is. 255 00:14:02,851 --> 00:14:07,434 There's parts of the catchment higher up, certainly where it's 256 00:14:07,434 --> 00:14:09,776 pretty idyllic, you know, it's the typical views and scenery of 257 00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:13,458 a national park such as Eryri, the mountains are a bit more 258 00:14:13,518 --> 00:14:14,038 rugged there. 259 00:14:14,098 --> 00:14:17,521 But to the south and to the east, and you've got this vast 260 00:14:17,621 --> 00:14:21,235 area of peatland called Y Migneint. And that's a focus, an 261 00:14:21,255 --> 00:14:23,477 area of focus for our project, really, in terms of the 262 00:14:23,717 --> 00:14:25,018 restoration of the peatland there. 263 00:14:25,619 --> 00:14:27,420 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Like the other rangers we have met on our 264 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,803 walks, Dewi and the team work tirelessly to keep the peatlands 265 00:14:30,923 --> 00:14:33,645 wet and the water in places it's supposed to be. 266 00:14:34,726 --> 00:14:37,068 DEWI DAVIS: But none of that would or could happen on the 267 00:14:37,068 --> 00:14:40,691 ground if we hadn't engaged with, the community we're 268 00:14:40,711 --> 00:14:41,172 working in. 269 00:14:42,132 --> 00:14:44,655 You know, ignore the people at your peril. has always been my, 270 00:14:45,055 --> 00:14:47,297 sort of mantra in the project, because if you don't bring them 271 00:14:47,317 --> 00:14:50,899 along with you, I'm paraphrasing Attenborough here, you know, if 272 00:14:50,899 --> 00:14:54,413 they don't understand the work that you're doing, and why, how 273 00:14:54,413 --> 00:14:56,736 can they possibly care about it themselves? 274 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,343 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: For Dewi, there is a special connection 275 00:15:02,503 --> 00:15:05,667 between the Welsh language and a sense of belonging, with a 276 00:15:05,687 --> 00:15:07,449 phrase taken from sheep farming. 277 00:15:12,178 --> 00:15:14,318 DEWI DAVIS: One of them, one of my favourites, really, is, the 278 00:15:14,338 --> 00:15:18,519 notion of Cynefin. The notion of it sort of translates across to 279 00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:19,340 humans as well. 280 00:15:20,380 --> 00:15:23,941 You belong to a Cynefin. This is your Cynefin, your patch. You're 281 00:15:23,941 --> 00:15:26,442 comfortable there. It's where you were born and bred. 282 00:15:26,482 --> 00:15:28,222 And you know pretty much everyone there. 283 00:15:28,842 --> 00:15:31,343 And you know the rhythms of the place and all sorts so. 284 00:15:32,423 --> 00:15:36,044 I think if you talk about Cynefin, you truly understand 285 00:15:36,344 --> 00:15:39,585 the concept of Cynefin not just for farming, but for, from a 286 00:15:39,605 --> 00:15:40,665 human perspective as well. 287 00:15:41,526 --> 00:15:45,187 You're already there, some way with some of our communities. 288 00:15:46,127 --> 00:15:49,509 Some of the best time I've spent has been in a farmer's kitchen, 289 00:15:49,569 --> 00:15:52,170 just having cups of tea and talking about everything but 290 00:15:52,270 --> 00:15:54,570 work that sort of builds that trust. 291 00:15:54,951 --> 00:15:58,172 Then you can get on to the task or the job, or the idea that 292 00:15:58,192 --> 00:16:01,533 you've got and yeah, without the people, you don't get anything 293 00:16:01,573 --> 00:16:01,753 done. 294 00:16:08,345 --> 00:16:09,866 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: When it comes to connecting with people, 295 00:16:10,026 --> 00:16:13,449 there are fewer places, more perfect than the pub, and it's 296 00:16:13,489 --> 00:16:16,792 there that local community action and care for our spaces 297 00:16:16,872 --> 00:16:17,393 can grow. 298 00:16:18,314 --> 00:16:22,297 Tom Cox looks after his local meetup of a group called People, 299 00:16:22,297 --> 00:16:27,382 Planet, Pint. It's a worldwide collective started by Small 99 300 00:16:27,622 --> 00:16:30,784 that aims to get people together and chatting about the world 301 00:16:30,825 --> 00:16:31,305 around them. 302 00:16:31,925 --> 00:16:35,288 TOM COX: I like to think of it as a very inclusive community 303 00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:40,452 for anyone who is interested or concerned or just wants to talk 304 00:16:40,492 --> 00:16:44,394 about sustainability, to kind of come along and talk about it. 305 00:16:45,054 --> 00:16:49,577 It's got no specific agenda. We've got no topics that kind of 306 00:16:49,577 --> 00:16:50,577 have to be discussed. 307 00:16:50,677 --> 00:16:55,420 It just really is, just a space for folks to, to come and have a 308 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:55,660 chat. 309 00:16:56,561 --> 00:16:58,282 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Thinking about the environment and what 310 00:16:58,302 --> 00:17:01,704 to do as an individual can often feel a little bit of a daunting 311 00:17:01,744 --> 00:17:02,144 task. 312 00:17:02,484 --> 00:17:05,686 But Tom is confident that by getting the conversations going 313 00:17:05,706 --> 00:17:08,828 at the local and by making the planet a little bit more front 314 00:17:08,868 --> 00:17:12,730 and centre in our social lives, we can work together to achieve 315 00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:13,330 our goals. 316 00:17:14,351 --> 00:17:19,714 TOM COX: I think I'm optimistic about, about people and kind of, 317 00:17:20,314 --> 00:17:22,736 you know, People, Planet, Pint is an excellent example of how 318 00:17:22,796 --> 00:17:24,737 people come together and talk about these things and take 319 00:17:24,737 --> 00:17:27,018 these problem seriously and, and think of ways to solve the 320 00:17:27,018 --> 00:17:27,338 problem. 321 00:17:27,978 --> 00:17:30,460 I have absolutely no idea what it's going to be like in five 322 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:31,020 years time. 323 00:17:31,881 --> 00:17:36,034 But I am, always encouraged by the amount of mobilization and 324 00:17:36,034 --> 00:17:39,075 about the amount of passionate people that are out there trying 325 00:17:39,075 --> 00:17:40,855 to create solutions to solve the problem. 326 00:17:41,155 --> 00:17:43,936 It’s too big of a challenge to really predict where we're going 327 00:17:43,936 --> 00:17:44,096 to be. 328 00:17:44,376 --> 00:17:46,937 But I'm hoping at least socially, we'll be in a much 329 00:17:46,997 --> 00:17:49,578 better place and we'll have a lot more people mobilized and 330 00:17:49,578 --> 00:17:53,419 focused on solving these issues. 331 00:17:53,419 --> 00:17:55,279 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Back home in Oxfordshire having just 332 00:17:55,319 --> 00:17:58,000 finished our walk and coming back to the Radnor Arms for our 333 00:17:58,020 --> 00:18:01,261 pit stop, Richard tells me about some of the things that we can 334 00:18:01,261 --> 00:18:04,994 do at home to help nature thrive. 335 00:18:04,994 --> 00:18:07,035 RICHARD WATSON: If you've got room to plant a small tree, a 336 00:18:07,115 --> 00:18:10,137 birch or crab-apple or cherry or something like that then do. 337 00:18:10,257 --> 00:18:10,737 That's great. 338 00:18:10,857 --> 00:18:15,339 Provide, nectar, fruit, nuts, seeds for, birds and animals and 339 00:18:15,339 --> 00:18:15,799 insects. 340 00:18:15,799 --> 00:18:19,541 A pond is one of the best things you can do for wildlife. So even 341 00:18:19,581 --> 00:18:23,463 if that's just a bucket sunk in the ground, with fresh water in, 342 00:18:23,523 --> 00:18:27,184 then the water boatmen and insects will, come to that 343 00:18:27,244 --> 00:18:28,305 within a few days. 344 00:18:28,941 --> 00:18:31,002 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: The journey from wise, an insect important 345 00:18:31,022 --> 00:18:34,303 to saving our planet is a is a huge leap, isn't it? 346 00:18:34,383 --> 00:18:34,683 RICHARD WATSON: It is. 347 00:18:34,843 --> 00:18:36,343 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: But what you're saying is, actually, 348 00:18:36,443 --> 00:18:39,494 these are the fundamental things. This is the stuff you 349 00:18:39,494 --> 00:18:43,405 can do at home. And this is what is going to start that positive 350 00:18:43,905 --> 00:18:46,346 snowball effect, that chain of events that is going to have an 351 00:18:46,346 --> 00:18:46,626 impact. 352 00:18:46,646 --> 00:18:48,607 RICHARD WATSON: Yes. The experts say that actually, if you add up 353 00:18:48,627 --> 00:18:51,608 the area of all our gardens in the UK, then it's much greater 354 00:18:51,608 --> 00:18:54,729 than the area of other nature reserves. So by all of us doing 355 00:18:54,749 --> 00:18:57,606 a little bit in our garden, we can help wildlife that will help 356 00:18:57,626 --> 00:18:58,747 with climate change as well. 357 00:18:59,507 --> 00:19:02,289 And it can be a real positive, exciting journey and you can 358 00:19:02,309 --> 00:19:04,230 share it with your children, your grandchildren. 359 00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:07,312 You know, we all live to see, insects and things. And so yeah, 360 00:19:07,332 --> 00:19:09,093 it's really great to have the wildlife in our garden. 361 00:19:09,754 --> 00:19:13,516 We can all provide a bit of space. We can all help do our 362 00:19:13,556 --> 00:19:15,958 little bit, and then at a cumulative scale and it starts 363 00:19:15,958 --> 00:19:16,959 to make a really big difference. 364 00:19:17,379 --> 00:19:18,880 CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: That's a wonderful idea. And I think we 365 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,401 can all raise a glass to that! 366 00:19:35,757 --> 00:19:38,158 Thank you for listening to this episode of the National Trust 367 00:19:38,198 --> 00:19:38,739 Podcast. 368 00:19:39,019 --> 00:19:41,140 If you like what you've heard and would like to join me on 369 00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:43,922 more walking adventures, then you'll love our new podcast, 370 00:19:44,162 --> 00:19:45,002 Nature Escape. 371 00:19:45,342 --> 00:19:48,224 Each episode, we will be exploring a natural landscape 372 00:19:48,304 --> 00:19:50,886 from the comfort of wherever you're listening and hearing 373 00:19:50,906 --> 00:19:54,147 from experts about how they care for our favourite places. 374 00:19:54,988 --> 00:19:58,710 And from April, the National Trust podcast is changing. Look 375 00:19:58,790 --> 00:20:02,432 out for our new shows for nature and history and keep up to date 376 00:20:02,572 --> 00:20:04,692 with all things podcast by visiting 377 00:20:04,752 --> 00:20:08,810 nationaltrust.org.uk/podcasts. 378 00:20:10,058 --> 00:20:12,679 I look forward to joining you next time for me, Claire 379 00:20:12,699 --> 00:20:14,120 Hickinbotham. Goodbye.