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Welcome to Sense, Sensibility, and Chaos, a podcast where three friends with strong opinions and very different personalities take on the world in one slightly unhinged conversation at a time. I'm busy because I'm always doing something, researching, planning, making lists about my lists, and basically keeping us on track. I'm well- read because if there's a book on it, I've probably read it, highlighted it, annotated it, and have opinions about it. I'm Tall Girl because, well, I picked a username when I was 12, and apparently it's the only thing I'm willing to commit to long- term. Except us. Correct. So, why the nicknames? Well, we could have used our real names, but where is the fun in that? Instead, we're bracing the part of ourselves that shape how we think, talk, and argue about everything from literature and pop culture to the absolute chaos of modern life.

You can think of it as a Regency- era novel meets a group chat that spiraled out of control. We've got sense. We've got sensibility. And let's be real, we've got a lot of chaos. So, grab a cup of tea or something stronger, and let's get to it. Embrace the chaos. Preferably both. So, before we get started, let's address the obvious question. Why are we using these names? Why not just introduce ourselves like, I would like to put air quotes around this, normal people. Well, normal, air quotes as well, is overrated. But more importantly, there's a long tradition of writers, especially women, publishing under different names. Jane Austen originally published her books as a lady, in quotes, because, well, society wasn't eager to take female authors seriously.

And while we do like to think of ourselves as modern- day rebels, there's also the small detail that we still have day jobs, and until we hit Lotto, or inherited a stay in the north of England from a mysterious long- lost cousin, and even then, our employers might not be thrilled to find out we have opinions. Which we definitely do have opinions. So, for now, we're going by tall girl, red, and busy. Not because we're hiding. Okay, maybe a little. But mostly because it lets us bleed into the parts of ourselves that shape how we think, debate, and occasionally spiral into absolute chaos. consider this our Austen- approved pen name era. And when we do hit titled ladies of landed estates, maybe we'll drop the pseudonyms. Or maybe we'll just keep the mystery alive.

Let's dive in. Today's topic is things I wish I had known before being forced to adult. Can I just start with forced? Forced? Like, there's just an invisible cliff, and it's just like one day, and I'm like, alright. Yeah, you get pushed off it. You get booted. There's no door back to being like, uh, no. I remember bedtimes, and snacks, and my bills being paid, and a really tough workday of nine to three with bells in between. And recess. And activities. Dude. Craft time? Yeah, man. I was forced into art class. I was forced to be depressed and pay bills. Correct. It's like, the second you turn 25, the depression just kicks in, and it never goes away. Wow, you're a human, you're amazing. Oh no, I'm nine. Nine.

Let's be honest, I was being kind to the general world. So, let's see, what are some of the things we feel when we're forced to be an adult that we wish we knew? Okay, one, I just found out recently, you're not supposed to moisturize between your toes. And while technically this is for elderly people and diabetics, my podiatrist just tells everybody that you're not supposed to moisturize in your toes because it creates a moist environment, and rather than trying to break a lifetime habit with 70 year olds, you're just never supposed to. And I was significantly older than a child when I found out that information, and my podiatrist said it, and I was just like, why? Does it open the door to And he's looking at me like, are you stupid?

I'm like, nope. In my entire lifetime up until this moment, nobody's mentioned that moisturizer between the toes is the gateway to foot fungus and death rot. It makes sense because warm, moist environments tends to be where fungus grows. But aside from that, as someone who wears a lot of Birkenstocks, sometimes you have to moisturize between your toes, and I don't care what the podiatrist says. I'm this old. I am this old. You were this many years old before you realized it'There should be a checklist of - like yes it's obvious common sense stuffbutlike also, duh. I live in the US with US healthcare. It would really be great if I was made aware of like, if every doctor in the world got like five things we want you to know, or just stop doing, so you never have tovisit us for like, the stupid stuff that buys our third Bentley.

But look at it this way. When we were children, you went here, you know, your general practitioner, you went to a dentist. How many kids that young were normally going to a podiatrist that they would be told this? We had our dentist telling us, you know, you floss and brush and all that stuff. But did you have a childhood podiatrist? Was I just deprived as a child? Well, I mean, yes, but no. But also I found out, and this is just for us, we're supposed to go for hearing tests starting at 55, so they can track your And if your hearing declines, so you get hearing aids as soon as possible, so you can mitigate the worst of hearing loss in your later years.

Yeah, you're also supposed to tell the doctor when you're at the optometrist, that you still can't see things, even though things look slightly clear. You're supposed to wait until they are completely clear during the vision test before you say yes, I can see things so that you get the proper description. Okay, but first of all, I need them to find a way to test my vision without that dude right up on me and me basically like asphyxiating myself. I stop breathing during eye tests, because he's right here and I think my halitosis might kill him, although I've brushed 80 times before going. I have an irrational fear that I will exhale on him and he will just be like, well, I can never check your eyes again, you're going to have to go to Pearl Vision.

They've always seen worse than you. I know, but that doesn't matter. I'm Canadian. I'm And that's what goes through my head as they're like, better one, better two. These are the life decisions I can't make. It affects my vision for the entire year. Do you understand the stress I'm currently under for one versus two? Okay, first of all, I have never once been near you and thought your breath smells bad. Let's just calm yourself with that. Like, I don't know. I'm not They hold themselves to a different standard. I have been up in your face more often than your, your doctors. In a friend's kind of way. Right. So that's first. Secondly, I resent the fact that you think just because you're Canadian, you're automatically nice, because we have definitely heard you say things that we're not.

So I like to just. Oh, no. I own the fact that if you push me, I become Canadian, not nice. The reason for the Geneva Convention. I own that. But my nice goes a lot of miles beyond most people's. I have it in me to be terrible. People on TikTok have seen my clap-backs, and that's even like 1% of a burp Tupperware. That's not even the worst of it. But to somebody who controls my ability to read things clearly for the rest of the year, they are my exalted king. There is nothing I won't do. I will wax their car on the way out. I want them to help me see things. Okay, I think we jumped shark on this one. But okay. Never. But this is actually how we expected this to go.

So I got it. This is exactly how our every conversation goes. And this is also why I don't understand people maybe being excited to hear us. Well, clearly they've never heard us before. I mean, that is fair. But the fact that people are in her comments, oh, my God, I can't wait. People are doing the paid subscription or anything. We haven't said boo, and you want to give us money. I mean, thank you. Yeah, not to get it twisted, guys. We appreciate the hell out of it But we're confused. A little bit Whereas you guys are confused about the money, and I'm confused as to why our parental units might be listening to this. Everything I have thought about is filtered through how are their moms going to take what I'm about to say?

Oh, I can't wait till we do. We need to have episodes just fully on our mothers. Oh, no. Oh, yeah, but we do. But, like, no, no, no, You know your mom's going to listen to it, right? After we build the compound on a remote island that no boat can reach somewhere near Point Nemo. Oh, wow. Okay. That's when we can talk about our moms, except for mine, who is an angel on Earth. No, no, no. Listen, we all have wonderful mothers. And even in their wonderful states, like anyone in our lives. Raising boomers is hard. What? Raising boomers is hard. Oh, God. Who are you telling? Don't look at us like that. Because you've had your moments with your mother, too. Don't act all Canadian proper on us now.

Just because the great twine wars of 2012 happened? Correct. So what is something else that you guys wish you had learned before? Busy, why don't you go next? So I was told by my parents that apparently when I was born to be the firstborn, eldest daughter, and firstborn grandchild, and niece on both sides of my family, that apparently this was not just a birthright. It was a vocation and a lifelong commitment. And no one spoke about it. You were the oldest when you were There was no discussions about it, I think, in recent years. But it is now to the point where I could start talking to perfect strangers, absolute. Like, I've been in the middle of New York City. I've been on a conference call.

People I've never met, and I've turned to them, I'm like, by any chance are you the firstborn, eldest daughter? And they're just like, yep. And we just, like, there's some kind of head nod. We both acknowledge this. It's like my trauma sees your trauma, and we recognize it. We don't have time for a handshake because we're too busy running our families. But I did not realize how much of a thing that would become, and how much that spilled over into everything. Including your career. Oh, God. Yeah, I think, well, that's something that we have in common is being the firstborn, eldest child. Eldest daughter, specifically. And it's very much a mindset that you didn't realize that you were going to get. Yeah, and I think people said, kind of like, you know, nurture versus nature.

And I try to take a step back, and I'm like, if I wasn't put in the position, because I'm being the oldest of the female cousins for both sides of my family, there's just, and everyone, like, chipped in. Everyone always took care of everything. But there's a little bit of a different expectation, I think, with, you know, usually women, especially growing up in an Italian- American household. I'm like, is this because this was put upon me, or this is who I am? And it's both. But, oof, that firstborn. And then, I don't know about you, I've talked to other - first, first of all, I have a lot of my friends, female friends. I noticed that not all, but a lot of them tend to be in that position. Oh, yeah, 100% And also.

We attract each other, like, neurodivergents. Yeah, we're like, hey, you've been, and then my, the recent thing that I've found amongst several of my fellow ladies is that we are now at the age where the parents and family elders who put us into these roles of power, and, you know, didn't make it easy for us to ask for help, or, you know, had expectations of certain things on us, are now at this age, when we've been doing this, for decades, turned to us and like, well, why won't you let me help you? Or worse, why are you so bossy? Oh, yes, the bossy. Talk about your, your birth into who you really are last summer, when you found out. Okay, so let us set the stage, shall we?

Gentle listeners, here we go. So, we are up at Red's mother's house. And I was in the car with Tall Girl here, and we're talking, the topic comes around, and she mentions to me, well, that's because you like to be in charge. Well, no, I mean, I said, I can't be in charge. And she wasn't for the fact she was driving, I'm pretty sure she would have just slammed on the brakes and stopped mid highway. And she's like, are you kidding me? And then since then, it's been this whole discovery, where apparently everyone in my life was aware of this on a surface level, except for me. here's the thing, I was aware I could be. I like to be in charge.

At times, I didn't realize how much or how it It sneaks out because, and we realized that the reason I didn't realize this was because when I think of someone who has to be in charge, I think of someone who's driven by maybe an anxiety that they have to, you know, they have to control something. Or maybe their OCD or something, who is just like barking orders. And that is not my approach, as Red here has pointed out to me. How do you describe it, Red? Well, velvet mallet. I was gonna say like velvet glove on a iron fist. There's a mallet there. Yeah, no, it's very much a do as I say because I'm giving you the correct reasons for doing it rather than do as I say because I want you to.

It's a gentle nudge in the right direction, but that nudge can be repeated as often as it needs to be repeated in order for you to do the thing that she wants you to do and eventually do the thing that she wants you to do. It's a kindergarten teacher, like it's not mean, but it's like, okay, we're going to put away our toys so that we can have nap time and snacks. And as I brought this up to multiple family members and both sides of my family, probably different sides of the family, both at wakes for family members. I told my one eldest cousin, and I said, apparently I like to be in charge. And he said, have you not met you? Like, is this news to you?

And after the, the wake, we decided we were both going to go to dinner. It was in a city area where there wasn't a lot of parking. And we had like four cars and we're all trying to figure this out. So finally I said, all right, you take, you know, aunt, you take your kids and these two people in your car, I will take these three in my car, everyone else leave your cars here, we'll come back and get them. And that same cousin turned to me and he goes, see, take in charge. And then at another family side, we were at a different wake and I'm explaining this whole thing. And my, my aunt, God love her. She's like, are you kidding me? Like, how didn't you know this?

And I'm explaining how right here has explained to me how I do things. And so I said to my younger cousin, I said, for an example, she had her bag on the floor. So I said, don't you think it'd be better instead of having that on the floor where it might get tripped on, maybe pick it up and put it on the chair there. So it's out of the way. And she turned to her mother, she goes, should I pick this up now? Wait, should I, I think I should pick up the bag. I said, no, that was just an example. She ended up picking up the bag, but that is because of that. I don't realize how much that I am persuasive, maybe.

I think that your control definitely comes out as a persuasion rather than a tutorial. And I'd rather have you on board long term. I don't want people to do things because, you know, as we mentioned, because I'm the emotional one, I want you to be comfortable. I want your feelings to be acknowledged and recognized. So I think that in the long term, it is, I will get more out of you if I could be persuasive and considerate than demanding and forceful. I agree 100% That is entirely your personality. I also think it has something to do with the fact that it's easier for them to listen to you the second time if they know you're right the first time. I will say you and Red have given off firstborn energy since the day I met you.

You have a very different approach to how you do it. Red is like one word, fire, and she kind of expects you to react to like, fire, I'm telling you the thing. You're much more like if we put away things, we can then have snack time. Snack time is delicious. I'm the college professor, she's the kindergarten teacher. You have both given off firstborn, we're gonna manage this energy since the day I met you. I don't, the fact that you didn't know. So Red was in the house and it was me and Busy in the car, we walk into the house and the first thing I can like explain to Red is like, did you know she didn't think she was bossy? And it's been about a two year exploration. And then we're telling Red's family and they're looking at me like, the neighbors from down the street were like, we don't know you yet, but we assume.

And then I've also like, now it's been the past few years of looking back at things like I didn't drive until I was about 21. And it wasn't because I had a fear of driving myself. It was because I couldn't control the drivers around me. And then, um, let's see. As quickly as I could get my, well, okay, I might have driven underage, thanks to dad, like on the Autobahn. But you know, as quickly as I could get the freedom of a car, I was like, I don't, I don't care who's on the highway, I'm here. I am the polar opposite of you in that way. My aunt that I mentioned in the story just now, she, one of her favorite stories of me when I was a child, like I was six or five, it was the Christmas pageant.

Apparently I had a solo for Singing Away in the Manger, and I'm on the stage and they're in the back recording this, and I don't think they have it though. And apparently the pianist was off tempo. So I looked over at the player and made eye contact and then gave them the nod to get them on my tempo. What the listeners can't see is we have been nodding like bobbleheads for the past 10 minutes of Busy's like, coming to the realization story. We grow. Come out of a control closet. It's a safe space that you can organize. We listen and we don't judge. We judge? I have buckets of That is true. All right. So, Red, how about you give one of your things, now that we can get it off me because this is just too much.

Red, give us something that you wish you knew. That self- care is more than just about physical well- Do tell. Yeah, so I have spent my entire life on a journey of mental healing and And it took me until I was in my late 20s to realize that self- care could be, you know, staying in bed all day if I needed to. it could also look like forcing myself out of bed and doing the things that I need to do like cleaning the apartment or reading that book that I've been putting off or, you know, any number of things that are not just about keeping yourself clean and presentable to the world. You know, it's about making sure that you're presentable to yourself and accepting of yourself.

And sometimes doing the hard thing for yourself, like telling yourself the truth about what you just did. If you did something a little bit shady that you wish you hadn't done, like, no, that was kind of a shitty thing to do and I shouldn't do that thing again. But yeah, that's where I come down is self- care is more than just about physical well- It's about a lot of different things. It's about monetary health. It's about professional health, professional self- care, like making sure that you're taking care of yourself at work as well as at home. But it's about a myriad of things, not just taking a shower every other day or so, you know, or sometimes more than once a day, depending on who you are. Look, water is amazing.

It is amazing. I can't get into bed dirty. And sometimes in the morning after like three hours of sleep, coffee and a cold shower are the only two reasons I'm going to like be able to function. It wasn't a call out. It was just, you know, people have different hygiene habits. Sometimes we wish people would shower more. We can do a whole episode on my OCD. People in the subway in New York City, there should be separate cars, not based on where you're going, but based on your close association with a bar of I was at a wedding recently and someone looked at me and was like, you know the reason that people carry bouquets? I was like, yeah, it's because everybody smells. Like that's the reason that hothouse flowers were cultivated to begin with.

The Victorians, nobody bathed and everybody stank. And so they carried around flowers. They put boutonnieres on their lapels and stuff like that to make sure that they weren't smelling other people. I mean, that's how we all start our new life together. Right. Awkward. And it wasn't also like you did like your yearly or semi yearly bath around May. And that's why May weddings were a big thing, too. The bath water was about the cleanliness of the water that you might literally miss a baby. Okay, now that my skin is crawling. Are you going to shower for the second time today? Because that's the right and fair way for life to be. but I think that everything that what you're saying is also. And also, I think when you're talking about self- care and giving yourself grace.

I think that. The two of us, We have like we look back at things that we did when we were teenagers. Well, no, but like at the time, it's like, oh, okay, you've handled this. All right. And like, and I was like, all right, you just took care of it. And you didn't think anything of it. And then you look back, you're like, oh, wait a minute. There are about 10 different ways I could have done that thing. But no, there weren't. Because you didn't have the tools at that time in your life. We didn't have internet. We didn't have, you know, we weren't in therapies or, you know, doing anything of that. And also that those are the situations put upon us.

And so there are times when I'll say something and people look at me like, wait, how old were you when that happened? I was like, oh, I was 14 and asked to take care of X. And it is what it is. And I may have been holding the judgment over myself for the decision I said, youknow what I said, what I did at 14. But I have to at this stage of my life, look back and say, okay, but you were only 14. You know, there's a, there's six years between my brother and I, and he's younger and, and recognizing, you know, one of the things I've said to him recently is that I recognize that sometimes I was in that awkward position between being your big sister and the third parent.

And knowing that while I never intended to cause problems or pain or, you know, frustration with you, that I probably did unintentionally. And that is okay to say that, yes, I made the mistake and understand how itaffects and you know, what it did, but to give myself grace because I was only a kid myself. And it's more than okay to acknowledge those things. I think it's essential to acknowledge those kinds of things, especially as you get older. Like I was a certain age, I had only the tools which I had been provided or which I had randomly discovered, you know, through whatever. But making those acknowledgments to people in your life, like, yes, I could have handled this thing differently, and I'm sorry I didn't, is really important for keeping relationships healthy and moving in the right direction.

Yep. I will say you guys have taught me because I am a second child that does not think about things they did when they were 14. But you have that luxury. Yeah, but it's like seeing the other perspective of, because my sister never like parentified me. So like, we just didn't have that relationship. But also seeing how you guys think about it, I've never had to go back and be like, oh, I am sorry for that time I didn't file your taxes properly, mother when I was 12 and you were 38. Like it's just it's not something so like you guys have opened an awareness of how others like how to look at a situation two different ways, because I've never had to go through those things.

So it's like it brought an awareness to me the fact that you guys are willing to go back and basically relive your trauma to try to like reevaluate and put yourself with adult eyes to like, I was a kid, you were the parent. This is what I did. This is how I could have done better. This is what I've learned. This is what I've grown from. And these are the things I need to like, let go of. It's oh, it's eye Letting go we're still there. Well, I mean, I am I'm still doing all that work that I am not Elsa. I will not let it go. No, we don't. We haven't gotten that far. But we acknowledge it. It's like we know we have trauma.

We know there's damage, but do not ask me to do any work on that yet. I will say since I've met you busy, you're less hesitant. There's moments where you used to pause in situations and you could almost see that you were reliving whatever it was. And you would kind of have to like, okay, this is not this situation and move on. Whereas Red more easily vocalizes what it is that's like off to her or like if she asks for help, something like she used to have to be like her ashes, not just like her Somebody would have to roll her ashes in napalm after she was on fire, and twice relit the fire before she would be like, maybe, maybe I need a little bit of help here.

And now she's more willing to like raise aflag And that's the progress I've seen in you guys, they're like doing your own work in those years. That's the progress I've seen from you guys, which is like, oh, this is how it'ssupposed to go. These this is how to healthy adults are trying to deal with all the stuff and how they are like progressing in they're trying to work with it. It's not perfect, but it's also like, oh, this is real life practical examples of things that are frankly inspiring. Okay, don't don't cry. I'm so sorry. I'm so We're gonna stop now. We're gonna stop. Stop that right now. You are the wind beneath my wings. Oh my god, stop that. I swear to listen, I will say that not going down the deep emotional lab.

What I think the three of us are good about is because listen, all all seriousness, each one of us can have a blend of logic, emotion, chaos. We each have a person we each lean into one of those more than the other two. However, we are comfortable enough in our friendship to say when one of if if red is being the emotional one, then I'm going to be the logical and we are we are easy. It is easy for us, I should say, to switch in and out of those roles when necessary for the good of the friendship or whoever needs the support. But also, I think what is good about us is we all while two of us, you know, are the firstborn and you're not, we're also good about saying, hey, I am not seeing this.

I, you know, read and I will have a talk and I'm like, all right, she's explaining something and I'm not seeing why it's upsetting or where the challenge or problem is, and I will say to her, can you walk me through what I'm missing here? Because I'm seeing this. What part am I not aware of? And we do that and we're very good about. Being able to bring the missing components to a view that maybe one of us is missing at the time, so, you know, maybe, you know, talk or they will say something from a perspective outside, From being a Canadian or from doing a lot of world travel, you know, something of that that we might not have experienced, like, oh, OK, that makes sense.

When you say it like that and, you know, we both kind of have, I think probably I have the biggest of the three of us of a family base and saying from, you from a large family, this is why this might not be as easy to just do. So I think that that is part of the beauty of the friendship is that we balance and we each know when to pick up the baton and run the race and just sit down and also drink and make fun of people. I'm sorry, are you saying you have buckets full of Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.Oh Oh, interesting. I might not have my life together, but I am prepared for a long winter and stored judgment. I just can't it.

I'm trying to I'm going to try the dry method next. OK, I was doing a water bath, but I'm going to try try canning and see if that gives different results. I will actually bring up that is the other thing about adulting. That is the absolute lie is that people have together and know what the hell they're doing. Oh, because when you looked at our parents growing up, you were like, oh, they pay their bills, they do their things, they go here, they go there, they know stuff like they have information. And then you get to adulting and nobody knows nothing. And if there wasn't an X on the map that says, like, you are here, we would just wander and bump into things all day, every day.

That sounds exhausting to have everything in order. I think there I think there are people who really try to and we'll talk about this in the next episode, but I think there really are people who try to portray. Having it all together. That they that they figured it out somehow and that, you know, their their work doesn't interfere with their family life, their family life doesn't interfere with their personal life, their personal life doesn't interfere with their work life and. Like their Venn diagrams don't touch. And I think that that is. Something that has kind of been. Forced on people that the idea that you have to be perfect somehow. In a weird world, like Marie Kondo, I think, woke me up to the reality of like the lie when everybody was like, oh, no, I can cleanse all my stuff and I try and go fold my underwear and like my house is always Instagrammable.

And I was just like, it's not possible outside of like Like, nobody can be awake that many hours to make that many things that perfect all the time. Like, it's just it's. One and I mean, we've got we've got friends with multiple kids and one of the things that I see all the time is this like, don't mind the way the house looks. Because we've been holding eight different directions from, Three or four different kids all week and we just haven't had time to take care of the way the house looks. So please ignore it. And that's one of those things about adulthood that I wish I had known, too, is that this myth of perfectionism can lead to like. Embarrassment. That you don't have it all together.

I think but to combat that, I think it's important. One of the things and I guess listeners will get to learn. I'm not comfortable with compliments that anyone gives me. But one of the things I would say that makes me happy to that line of like the busy household and all. Two years ago, I met up with one of our sisters. I haven't seen her in probably 10, 15 years. And I was driving through her part of the ward and I said, hey, let me come by. Would you mind? She said, absolutely. And she told me later that her husband was saying she was working full time, completing her master's to become a teacher, has a son, has a husband, you know, house keep up.

And he said, do I need to help you clean up the house? And all he was like, things are a bit chaotic in here. And she said, it's busy. She's not going to care. And I love that after 10, 15, almost 20 years of not having seen her in person that our friends know we do not give a damn if your house looks like you live in it because you do live in it. And we know that, yes, you might have your own personal standards, but I might be catching you at a time when it has been a storm after a storm after a And if you're not going to give yourself that grace, because that's how, you know, it's hard for you to give yourself, I'm going to give it for you.

Yes, and you can't eat at everybody's house. Oh, that's 100% true. But as far as everything else, if you have pets, that pet fur is yours. And if I want to enter your home, it's on me to deal with it. But it's your home. It should look lived in. If it looks like a Kardashian home, that's when I get twitchy. Because it just doesn't, it feels like the model home in the condo. It doesn't feel like your home. I'm like, this is not your house. If it's this clean, this is not your house. This is like the rented home or like the Bentley that people show up to the high school reunion with like, this is not yours. Nobody lives this way.

Well, no, I'm going to play devil's advocate because there are people and for their own well being, if we are talking about people's well being and what is good for them, for them being having a clean house is something maybe that's something just for their level. Maybe they need that kind of cleanliness and structure in order to do, you know, have their whole world because they have a lot of plates going. So we can't come, I wouldn't completely, I understand what you're saying, but I also recognize that there are people and a, they just, they need a clean house. Maybe they don't have as much stuff as we do. So it's easier for it to keep clean and, you know, like sparse looking. I'm, I'm, let me be emotional and be considerate of other people.

No, there's clean. And then there's like, it takes 30 staff members to make it look this way. Oh, no, not that level. I'm talking about, there are people. No, there are people who actually clean. No, no, no. Like they're my favorite people. Go scratch. I don't care about that. I'm talking about, I've been in your home. I've eaten food in your home. So you've got to know. No, I know that, but I'm saying like, when my first thought when you were saying this, I know people who are very, they're not the, you know, they're not celebrities or anything, but for them, they keep, they don't have a lot of stuff. They're very sparse in their possessions. They have to keep a clean thing because it helps them keeping their life in track and their mental wellbeing.

So like, to me, I don't put that in the same category where I felt that was going. So that's why I wanted to make the distinction. There's also physical needs. Like, you know, if you live in a house where there's someone with a wheelchair or a severe allergy to dust or what have you, you know, keeping your house clean in those cases would be an act of self- care so that the people in your life can get around easily and make sure that. Absolutely. Making sure that their lives are a little bit easier. So I think that we've all reached an accord here. And these are some of the things, some of the things that we wish that we had learned when we were younger and not yet adulting and being forced to adult.

We could, we, I know we had a list of more. We could probably put those in the subscription for those of you who are generous. Are you marketing right now? Look, look, I can't, I told you, you keep underestimating me. I know that marketing, see marketing is tall girl's profession and she's just a at it, but she, I've been a couple of times during these talks and I've said, and she's like, are you, are you promoting? Are you thinking ahead? I'm like, yes, I can do it just because it's your thing. It doesn't mean I don't know how. I'm just so happy when other people do it. Like, if you ever want to talk about 14th century lute music, I would have the same little squeal, giggle, joy in my heart.

This is true. This is absolutely true. Lutes, any kind of weird baroque music or chamber music. She loves that stuff. So you remember when you dense bean salad this summer and you messaged me about dense beans. Did you not hear my scream echoing across the hills, multiple towns away from like where you live and I live. I wish you were team dense bean and I couldn't have been more excited than my entire life. There was a joy that just resonated in my chest. And I felt in my soul that you had just screamed and glee. I think you're honestly happy TikTok is going to go away just so I stop sending you daily dense bean salad recipes. Let's be honest, you know, I'm just going to look somewhere else.

For those of you who are listening on Apple podcasts, there was just a whole bunch of information that was randomly inserted into the episode that you did not hear. So come join us on Patreon. We'll be really thrilled to have you and you'll be able to hear those weird little interesting side notes, ramblings that we do, ramblings that we do in the middle of our podcasts for no good reason. And that's a wrap on today's episode. Yep. Join us next week. We are going to be talking about the myth of having it all together. Absolutely. If you enjoyed this, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or at least, you know, tell a friend who loves a good conversation and would like to listen to our even better debates. You can find us on SenseSensibilityChaos. com, TikTok as long as it lasts, YouTube and Blue Sky and your favorite podcast platforms. We'll be continuing the conversation and sharing our thoughts and honestly, probably being a bit more chaotic than this. Because what would life be without a little bit of Until then, see you next time. Stay sensible.