BEH interview final ===

Paul: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul and this standalone interview edition. Today's interview is with Barbara Eve Harris who played Agent Felicia Lange in season two and three of Prison Break. Tune in to our interview coming up right now.

Sarah: So, welcome back. Quick bio, um, on our guests today.

Welcome to Barbara Eve Harris. And I'm going to start our intro with what we all have in common. We were obviously

all in prison break together.

After

that,

Barbara appeared on Private Practice, which was Paul's next show. And then Barbara and I did [00:01:00] a pilot together for the CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Company, uh, where I played a spy and she played my incredibly well dressed boss.

I still remember the suit and the vest and the tie that you had. It was so amazing. Um, the pilot was called Tangled. It was not picked up. That was probably for the best. Uh, Barbara and I also have in common that we are immigrants to Canada. Since I saw you last, Barbara, I have completed my immigration and I'm now a dual citizen.

Um, Thank you very much. Oh, congratulations! And of course, beyond that, Barbara has appeared in like dozens and dozens of films and TV, including a really acclaimed Canadian independent film called The Body Remembers When the World Broke Open, Transformers The Last Knight, which was not an independent film, and The Amazing Spider Man, also acclaimed.

On the TV side, you might know her from her life in the Chicago Med slash Fire slash PD universe or Messiah or Sharp Objects. So that is my introduction. How much of that did I get right? [00:02:00] Okay, okay, good. Uh, no lies. I don't have time. Terribly, terribly incomplete. I also know you were nominated for Gemini.

I'm joking. I'm joking work on both sides of the court.

Paul: And also we just, we just read that you're, um, uh, the, uh, uh, uh, uh, President, President Elect Trump's, uh, nominee for Surgeon General. Is that true? That's on Wikipedia. Is that not?

Barbara: They hadn't, oh, they hadn't let me know, but I, uh, for your service.

Sarah: Now, are you based?

What side of the border are you based on? Best I can. Are you on the Canada side? You're in LA.

Barbara: Okay. Um, here, I'm, I'm in L. A. I'm just, I've been in L. A. since, uh, Oh, okay. 25 years now. Um, I'm coming to you live from B. C. So I go back to Canada. Sorry?

Sarah: Ah, that's

Barbara: great. Oh, oh. Yeah, you told me how much you loved it there.

Well, but you,

Sarah: you're from Toronto, right? That's where you grew up? I was touched. [00:03:00] Oh.

Barbara: Oh, in Ottawa! Uh, no. I was born in the West Indies, grew up in Ottawa. Ottawa, which is, uh, not, not Well, yeah, Toronto's not, you know, a cakewalk either in the winter, but, um You don't say. Ottawa is certainly not the center of the Yeah, fair enough.

Um, well

Nevertheless, I navigated my beginnings from there. So

Sarah: how did you get from Ottawa to L. A. to the career that you've had? I mean,

okay.

Barbara: My initial intention was to be a lawyer. And I got my offers of audition to, of, uh, scholarship and admission to law school. And I let them expire because I realized during the course of my university years that, um, my heart really lay in, um, theater and not in law. And it was really, you know, for [00:04:00] my parents and status and whatever.

So I just listened to my heart instead, let everything expire. My, my mother cried and my father wouldn't speak to me for months, literally. Um, and so I just, just went to New York and. Sort of found my way around, compared myself or just, um, saw where I stood, et cetera, et cetera. Um, long story short is that dancing in New York got me into my first movie in, in Montreal and then that got me back into acting.

Um, and so, yeah, so I was in Canada, uh, doing my thing for several years and then felt like I needed to expand a little bit. I came down to L. A. with the help of all the, you know, producers and directors that I'd worked with in Toronto mostly, um, who were from L. A. mostly and said, you need to come down. So, uh, And at what point did your parents kind of

Sarah: go, okay, [00:05:00]

Barbara: yeah.

Paul: Or have they?

Barbara: Oh. Oh, oh, long ago, long ago. I mean, guided to the level in Ottawa and they were great. I have an oddly similar journey. Was it like the Tribune or was it like the

Sarah: Evanston Daily Press?

Paul: It was the Tribune and Steppenwolf helped, sure. And then a little TV, then that's the TV, yeah.

Barbara: And they accepted it?

Paul: Slow burn. I don't think it was as extreme. It wasn't maybe it was as extreme as yours, but they were, oh, I wouldn't

Barbara: call it extreme. I have to say my mother was always very first sympathetic. She cried because she was worried about me. That's what I got disappointed. But then she became the biggest cheerleader.

Oh my gosh, she was. like my personal PR. Very proud.

Paul: Good.

Barbara: Yeah.

Paul: So, let's talk about Prison Break. [00:06:00] Did you, was this something you auditioned for? So, we were already a hit show. Is this something you auditioned for? Did they come to you?

Barbara: I remember your question to Sarah. Yes, I auditioned for it. Um, I did audition for it.

The uh, thing is though, I um, I knew about the show because, um, one of the, I think the UPM, uh, was a friend of mine and he told me he was excited about the show he was on. The title, I'd heard you guys talk about this, the title did not appeal to me. Why would I want to watch a show called Prison Break and a bunch of guys in prison want to break out?

As soon as the opening credits came on. I, I was just enthralled and I knew that this was special for the pilot. Yeah, and then the first episode was magnificent. I thought, well, that's great. How could they keep that up for a whole season? Uh, and then they kept it up for a whole season. The character development was mostly what it was.

And the [00:07:00] storyline, the plots, the writing, everything. Performances. Okay, so now they get out. So it's over. And then Um, so I was locked in and loving the show, but then, uh, I found out that they needed, uh, help hunting them down in season two. So yes, I was sent to audition. The sides I was given oh, were mahomes characters sides, right?

I was beyond excited. I thought, this is so meaty, so badass. Oh my God, I'm gonna just eat this up. And I did. The audition went very, very well. Matt was there. Um, they loved it. I thought oh my gosh, this was like so easy and I got this role that I'm gonna just JK devour

Paul: Wonder what William Fichtner's doing on this show Well,

Sarah: I mean they explained that

Barbara: they just needed to see because they knew that the first Um, episode didn't [00:08:00] have enough stuff to show what they needed to see for later on.

So they just gave me stuff that needed to, was going to show it. Um, so anyway, my character, as I saw in the first episode that I got, I was a little confused, still not clear. Um, and she was a little, um, more green than I expected I was going to be playing. And I didn't know, what, what is this? So I asked, Kevin Hooks was there.

on set or at the location when I went to Dallas. I asked him about it and he said, Hmm, let me know. Let me see. And he called up somebody in L. A. and he said, having a long conversation with questions about my character, and I thought, I didn't mean for you to be doing all this. I just, I just wanted to know, is this like, is this, is she, who is she?

Sarah: And probably got them thinking about it. But that was very generous of him.

Barbara: Uh, who knows, but I was given three episodes, it was hard for one, but I was given three episodes right away at the first thing and then, uh, [00:09:00] I just, you know, I knew I was on a great, great show and I was so grateful and excited and I loved going to, to Texas because I probably wouldn't have gotten there otherwise, um, and then, uh, I, I, I, I don't know if I should say this, I'm going to, I was still a little bit thinking my role, I, I just thought, mmm.

I'm not doing as much as I thought I was going to be doing, based on my own, uh, so I sent a little note. When I did the audition, I, I, um, uh, you know, I did my thing and then I was leaving and said, would you like to see my demo? Why would we want to know what you're capable of? No, no, no, no. So, why would we want to know what you're capable of?

That was good. What's that? Oh, no, no, no. No, I thought they were, I thought it meant they were happy. They were already convinced. They didn't need any more. So, that's where I took it. But then, um, after, uh, three episodes, I think, I sent, uh, Matt my demo reel. I said, I know you said you didn't want to see it, [00:10:00] but would you look at it?

And then the next thing I saw, the next episode that I saw written was, like, a feature and lots of fascinating action, badass stuff. And I thought, oh, okay, thank you. Yeah, that was written by First of all, that's a great That episode.

Sarah: Like, it's interesting the way, often, I mean, Paul and I have talked about this a lot, that you sometimes end up advocating yourself, advocating for yourself, even sort of unintentionally, by asking questions that kept people thinking.

So if that's the case, then she wasn't designed as a sort of future love interest for Mahone. I mean, do you have a sense of when that evolved? Like, when was the first time that you were kind of like, hmm?

Barbara: You know what? Um, interesting question. Um, the very first episode, the very first scene with Mahon was, was me being introduced to [00:11:00] him and, uh, he asked me a question, like, to test me, I guess, to see, you know, what I knew. I gave him a short answer, which I thought was making me look bright and, you know, he, I, he'd be impressed and And then he turns around, we're standing and walking and talking and then he turns around and he starts blah, blah, blah, blah, blahing to me.

Showing me how there was so much more to the answer than what I thought I knew. And, uh, so I saw that in the script and I thought, I'm going to be standing here, this is my first appearance. I'm standing here with my, whatever in my hand, uh, watching him while he talks and talks and talks to me. What am I going to be doing?

And, I, there are lots of ways to maybe come up with things that I didn't really know until, um, We did the first rehearsal, and he turned around and started talking to me, and I looked at him, and I was just literally mesmerized. I was in awe, partly by Bill, and partly by the character, [00:12:00] but so Lang and Barbara were just in awe.

Sure, I'm trying to take in what you're saying, but you are just the most amazing, um, and so that was picked up and, um, What a great

Paul: lesson. Keep going.

Barbara: When we finished the scene, uh, Bill said to me, you know what, I think we can do some good stuff together down the line. Um, and my agents sort of acknowledged the chemistry that they saw and, and, um, I felt it too.

Yeah. So, I was in love with him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Barbara was in love with Bill in a professional way. But Lang was just really smitten by Mahone from that first introduction. When I thought I was just going to prove to this new boss that I was on top of things. I was just disarmed. What a great acting lesson,

Paul: it's like, you don't know what it's gonna be until you're standing there, receiving the truth and giving the truth back, you know, and then everything gets informed by that.

It's [00:13:00] such a great, and then you know what, one of the wonderful things about this, TV, episodic TV, and they didn't used to write it all at the same time, and sometimes they don't, is that the writers, producers, directors get to see what they have and then say, Oh, there's a vibe. Uh, there wasn't not necessarily romantic, but maybe, you know, maybe romantic and saying, Oh, let's write more for them.

Or that really popped. Right. I really like seeing these two together. Let's dig into it. Um, it's such a fun thing to, um, It's such an exciting thing when it happens, too. And it's, again, such a good lesson. Yeah.

Barbara: Thank you. Yeah. Well, I would say just about every time I worked with Bill it was an acting lesson in the same way because I would look at the script and I Wouldn't have to even worry about what the heck I'm gonna do make sure I know my lines Make sure I show up and the thing will come alive and I give him credit for that.

Everything would just come alive and Just because there's scenes that are full of like do you [00:14:00] mean

Sarah: like there's a version of this show with lesser actors? where those scenes come on and you're like just get back to the present break you guys like it get that back to the Foxtrot, right. But the scenes became we were just talking about this as we rewatched it.

Those scenes become every bit as sort of riveting because of the choices that were made. And it was fantastic casting. Um, and it was kind of neat too, because I think as a viewer, I mean, we were essentially on different shows. We didn't You know, we, we almost never worked together. Um, it was a show that was more or less allergic to passing the Bechdel test.

Um, but I would watch the episodes when they aired and I was like, whoa, what are they doing? Like you started to see something come together that then had a tale that went all the way through to the end. And that, I don't know, I just think that's [00:15:00] It was really beautiful to watch.

Barbara: So you are one of those actors who watches the show. Many don't. Bill never did. I

Sarah: don't anymore. I watch. I don't anymore. I like to watch. Then I was so green that I learned from the distance between what I thought I was doing And what I was actually doing. So I would go home and the scene would be in my head because I thought I understood what I was doing.

And then I'd watch it and I'd be like, Oh, I buried that way too deep. Nope, that, that didn't come out at all. Or like, yeah, a little bit of that goes a long way. Like, I was very much calibrating. And also because I was in so little of the show. Especially for the first kind of year and a half. You know, I'd be three or four scenes an episode but there was so much going on.

With these colleagues that I would get to know on set and in the makeup trailer and stuff and I was like I want to know what I'm outies up to like, what's Barbara doing? Like how Lane? How's your show going? Haven't seen you in six weeks. [00:16:00] And so watching the show was, uh, a part of kind of catching up with all of that.

Um, how was Texas for you, by the way? If it was a new place for all of us, mostly except for Lane.

Barbara: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

Paul: Yes. Did

Barbara: you hear that sound? I

Sarah: don't know

Barbara: what it

Paul: was, so we don't, we don't mind.

Barbara: Uh, yes. Okay, alright, that's right. Uh, Texas, yes. Well, I was, I was very excited to go because it's, it's such a big part of the American, you know, sort of picture.

And I never would have gotten there otherwise likely, so I was excited. I'm gonna go to part of America I probably wouldn't have seen and my experience of Dallas was you know Just this little bubble that the prison break bubble. I I met some people there And you know had some nice social interactions, but it was mostly kind of [00:17:00] location experience of being surrounded by or in the environment of The production I really enjoyed it some great restaurants and Um, museums and whatever, but I, I didn't really plug in otherwise.

The locals that I met were very, very nice and gracious. So, I, I only had good experiences. When I first got there, that very, very first night. Oh boy. It was summer. And I got there, uh, in the evening. So, I went to check my hotel. Decided to go outside. middle of the night, I thought someone had made a mistake.

The oven was left on in the sky. What the hell? Oh my God. So I've never felt that before. Yeah. Kind of heat.

Paul: Um, how did, how did you find, uh, it's always tricky. Uh, to go into a dynamic that's [00:18:00] already existed for a while before you get there. You know, it was a show that had already done 22, 23 episodes before you arrived. Um, everybody kind of had their groove. Um, do you find it easy to, to, to fit in or catch the same, I don't know what the word would be, wavelength as everyone else?

Barbara: Um, well, I was a huge fan of the show, so I went in very grateful and excited, and the energy that I received, what I received was just really lovely. Um, and my character was new, a stranger to this environment as well, so everything worked in tandem. Everything reflected everything else, so, um, it fit, it was perfectly, um, normal, how I felt and how my character

Sarah: was feeling.

That's true. That's a good point. That's a good point.

Barbara: [00:19:00] Yeah. He'd been there for a few, I think I started episode 3 or something, um, 4, 3 or 4. Um, so he'd been there already, plus he just established himself. I went in seeing him as part of the establishment because he was so, I mean he was my lead for my storylines.

He was my lead and, um, it was his room. Billy takes up space on a set, in like a super good way. Like he

Sarah: just played my dad, but like he just showed up and he's just like, He owns it. Billy's here. And you're like, Oh, Billy's here. Let's all tune into that. Like, it's, it's impressive. It's really cool.

Barbara: Yes. Yes.

Yeah, it really is. Yeah. So, you know, that part, that part was easy. Um, I like people and they're good people and the material was great. And then of course the work, um, the work sort of vibe and energy was

Sarah: great. Once it started airing and you're on the show, like, Did [00:20:00] things shift for you at all? Were things different personally or professionally?

Or were there like, you know, long lost family being like, Oh my God, I saw you on TV! Like, was there a thing like that? Or at that point, I mean, because you've been working for a long time. Like, you were a really established actor. This wasn't a new thing for you.

Barbara: Yeah, yeah, I had been acting

for a long time.

Um, but Um, this was definitely a huge, huge bump professionally, career wise, um, visibility wise, um, in, in every way. Uh, it was like the biggest sort of, had the biggest impact on my career, even up to now. Because this is what, 16? Well, I started in 2006. Right. So, um,

Sarah: next fall is the 20th anniversary of the show starting.

So it would have been about 18 years ago for you at this point.

Barbara: Yeah. Did you know that it was number one on Netflix for six weeks in a row in terms of numbers? Yeah. That's yeah. Crazy. So [00:21:00] yeah, to this day people come, I mean every, every country, every country of origin, you know, Asian, African. European, uh, come up to me telling me about how much they love, love, love the show.

Seen it all seasons, four or five times over. Um, it's been a big part of people's lives and, and, uh, so yeah, that's been a big thing for me. And then of course, a lot of things came out of it having worked on that show. I've worked with Matt quite a bit, uh, since. Oh, because he did all the Chicago, yeah, the

Sarah: Chicago bed and fire and stuff.

Oh, that's

so

cool.

Barbara: Mm hmm. And FBI International, um, that was a lot of work. Hey, he's never hired me back. Well done. Want to go to Budapest? Yes! Who doesn't want to go to Budapest?

Paul: Yeah. That's amazing. With, uh, Craig Turk, who was also a private practice guy. Oh, nice. Uh, wrote on both of those, yeah.

Barbara: Um. I, I. I didn't work with you on Private Practice either, we were just like saying hello and

Sarah: [00:22:00] reminiscing.

That's right. We had lots of scenes together in Tangled. You were one of the highlights of Tangled. We had

so

much

fun.

Barbara: Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, I, it was supposed to get picked up. I mean, I, I think things work out the way they're supposed to, but, uh, it was supposed to have gotten picked up. I don't know why.

Sarah: But you're right about the costume.

Oh my gosh. We had the greatest costumer. She was just like, Let's do a spy show where you guys all look amazing all the time. We were like, okay.

Paul: Sounds good to me.

Sarah: You

Barbara: know, what we do is just magical. What we do is magical. Because no matter what's going on, I've been working where my feet are so sore from the shoes, they're bleeding.

Um, and I'm limping to my mark. Action. And then I'm walking and strutting like nobody's business. Cut. I'm in pain again, limping back to my, uh, or if it's super cold and you got a bare midriff and you're shivering. And then, action. Everything's fine. And then cut. Get me my, you know, get me my warm up. It's, it's, [00:23:00] uh, what we do, it literally is magic.

Sarah: Weren't you a producer on that? I was, it was the first thing I ever produced. Yeah, it was wild and it was, um, It was a really, I mean, it's a long conversation for another time. I learned so much on that. And, you know, likewise, I'd heard it was going to be picked up, and there were so many things I was excited to explore, and like, such great actors.

Conrad Plon, all these wonderful people. Um, and then, the day I heard, uh, that we weren't getting picked up in the same breath. I was shooting a movie in Nigeria. Um, my agents were like, uh, and there's this thing called the walking dead that's a zombie thing they want you to audition for. And I was like, I have two hours of electricity a day.

If it's still alive when I get back, we can talk about it. But it was in the same breath, like Tangled isn't getting picked up and there's this thing called the walking dead. And I was like, Oh, and I think you're right. Sometimes like life just kind of clears a path and goes, no, you're gonna take a right hand turn no matter how [00:24:00] much you think you should go left right now.

And

that's, you know,

Barbara: well. That's, that's very interesting. I forgot that they were so closely, um, tied. Um, but it was, you know, we didn't work a whole lot in Prison Break, but I watched the shows, um, and your strength was just, uh, in, in Prison Break, it was a kind of, um, your character was Um, more, I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to say here, except by contrast, um, the, the kind of strength that your character in Tangled, although I think it was mostly you being producer and actor, and then in Walking Dead, um, just had me floored because I thought this pretty face and this slim little body had such ferocious, vital force coming out of her.

How does that happen? And she doesn't look like [00:25:00] she's trying. It's just like she is that. Um, yeah, a little bit of that came out when you were, you were, had your producer hat on in between takes. And I thought, Oh, my God, this woman is fierce.

Sarah: Oh, man, that's funny. Yeah, there was a, the kind of strength that was, uh, Sarah's strength on prison break was one that I liked and one that when I was done, I was like, now I want to try something else. I don't want to get stuck in this place. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's a funny thing. Um, okay wait, I want to take a quick break because I, uh, asked fans to send some questions in for you.

want to, if you're game, um, No, I don't want to. Let's not do that.

Paul: Alright, well

good seeing you.

Sarah: Okay. That's that good old no but rule of acting. Yeah. Would you? No. But. Um, okay. So, uh, Just for the folks listening, we will be back after this with questions for Barbara Eve [00:26:00] Harris.

Paul: Okay, we're back. All right. Um. All right, we got some fan questions. I'm curious about what people are curious about. Oh, so there's a couple. One from

Sarah: @xkatiehughes and another one from Uh, @a.lifeeee with four e's that has to do with the preparation. So the question is like, are there things you did to get prepared for the role slash get into character?

And then the second one of these is, did you do any research into real life detectives? Was there a. Was there a prep thing like that? And maybe the question has to do even with like, how do you prep in your trailer before you do a scene? I don't know. You can answer that however, however you want.

Barbara: Hmm. Hmm.

This sounds like one of those questions that, that, They're meant to be helpful to the person who's listening. Um, I don't know how much help I'm going to be, cause my, okay. Cause my, my way is not [00:27:00] necessarily the, the ideal way. Um, and it's changed so much over the years.

Sarah: Just do like four lines of

coke and some tequila and roll out there.

Barbara: I know that that's some of people's ways.

Paul: That's just standard. That's just standard.

Barbara: I, but, um, yes, in the beginning I had a more. structured technique and preparation approach, and it was kind of extensive. Um, and then it sort of tapered down over the years, and by the time I did Prison Break, I'd done a bunch of detective stuff.

I had, uh, I'd switched over from nice, professional, you know, warm person to, um, authority, you know, badass, kick ass, just overnight from a movie that I did in In the 90s. So after that, there was a lot of the authority stuff. Wait, which movie? And detective stuff. Oh, oh, it was called Dead Man Can't Dance. And I played a drill sergeant.

Oh, amazing. An army [00:28:00] ranger drill sergeant. Oh, yeah. And I thought, are these people crazy? No, not at all. And everybody laughed. Except my then husband. He said, oh no, they got it right. But, uh, yes, I didn't understand what the heck, because I don't do that, and it didn't feel like me, and even on, uh, we shot it in the Philippines and, um, some, uh, my colleagues after the, within the first week of rehearsal and preparation, they said, I don't know, you better be a damn good actress, because I don't see this.

Oh, interesting. Um, because it wasn't who I saw myself as, and, but. But on the day, uh, I don't know, it just kind of took over the, um, I guess it was kind of like being a choreographer, just as a choreographer, being in charge and knowing that it's for everyone's good, but you really want the outcome to be good.

So you gotta be as hard as you have to be. Uh, for the best, for the better.

Paul: What a great, what a great metaphor.

Barbara: Yeah. And I was, you know, as a drill [00:29:00] sergeant, putting them through drills. So it was literally wanting them to be in the right formation as well. But, um, being hard on them to get the best out of them.

Uh, so it felt natural. And then after that I just kept getting all these offers for roles of bosses and badasses.

Paul: And can I just, uh, we love When we have actors on, cause we can just go down an actor rabbit hole forever. But for somebody who did ask that question and is curious as to, well, how much, how much research did you do as a drill sergeant?

How much research did you do as a detective? How much research? It's like you find that crossover point. Like, well, I have to be a drill sergeant. I can draw on what I did as a choreographer. It's the same vibe. It's like, it's like, and then you bring that vibe to it and that's what makes it yours. That's such a good lesson of you bring yourself to the thing.

And that's how you experienced being in a position of authority. And so, and that's what, that's what, that's what playing. Make believe it's all about. That's a great answer, Paul. It's so fun. Well, you said it. [00:30:00] You said it. I'm just expounding on it.

Barbara: I didn't even, I didn't realize how I was answering it until you made it clear.

But uh, that's, that's true. Now do, some people do do the, like the research thing, the ride along thing, the, you know. Sure. Watching material, uh, video stuff. Um, I, I rely on writing, on really good writing. Uh, if it's there, and then my own life experience, and then if it's something technical that I really need to understand that's out of my range of, you know, experience.

Um, maybe, but, uh, generally I don't have to spend weeks and months. Um, but then again, I haven't done the kind of character that, you know, like a, you know, biography of someone big important in living.

Paul: Also a good lesson is that you only need to, that you only do the work that's required. I think some people feel like more work means it's better and it's, it's, you can overdo it.

But just like you said, because you showed up on set open, [00:31:00] I think if you do too much work you burden yourself from being.

Sarah: You're doing your homework. You're playing your homework. You're doing.

Paul: The moment. That's right. And you got to do your work at work, as a director once told me. Yeah. Do your work at work.

Barbara: That's part of what I was saying about my evolution of my process and now, initially the process was a formal structure of preparation and analyzing and. notes and, um, exploring and all that stuff and really now my exercise and my preparation is, is the openness being, knowing my material but showing up ready to receive, um, what comes to me from the other actors and just from, you know, up there, wherever the stuff comes from.

Um, being an open vessel, that's my preparation now. Where do you think it

Sarah: comes from? I'm curious. Well, sorry, we'll get to another fan question. No, I mean, it's, You definitely don't have to answer that, but I think there's

Barbara: I don't know. That's my answer.

Sarah: Okay.

Barbara: It's like, it's like, what is God? I don't know.

[00:32:00] Sure. And if someone tries to define that for me, uh, I don't think you know either, but Thank you for your attempt at, you know Narrowing it down. Um, there are just things that are beyond our understanding. Things that go on. Like the magic that I talk about. Yeah. Why is it that I'm shivering to death? And I feel like this is the most painful thing ever.

And the camera rolls and nothing is wrong. Except what's wrong for the character. Unless the character is supposed to be called it. Right. You know, it, it's magic and that's all. Yeah. That's all. Sorry. I remember,

Sarah: uh, Agreed. Doing some Theater work. I remember somebody telling me, um, I did a play with a guy who had a fever and it was theater and his understudy was radically miscast.

Like we were students and so he was like in his 50s and the understudy was like 25 and he's like he can't go on. And he had a 103 degree fever.

Paul (2): Oof.

Sarah: Except when he was on stage. Yeah. And we would feel him come off and he'd be okay. And within five minutes, he'd be doubled over in [00:33:00] the green room, like, sweating, nauseous, so sick.

And they'd be like, okay, man, it's, you know, like, you're up. He'd be like, and you could see, like, I don't understand the physiology, but it would recede. And I would watch him walk on stage. And I was like. He doesn't have a fever right now.

Paul: Right. And that's people say, Oh, it's adrenaline. It's a redistribution of cortisol and you can reduce it to all that, but there's something magical going on there that is, you are communing with something greater.

And that's the, that's why we love it so much. That's why you do it. Right. I mean, I mean, I was talking to a visual artist over Thanksgiving and we were trying to find that point. I was like, you know, what is the thing? You do it alone. You do it in a studio. It's a visual. It's such a different thing than performing.

And he says, you know, there's that moment where time is gone and you're conscious and [00:34:00] unconscious all at the same time and something larger is flowing through you and you're seeing something you've never seen before, but it's coming out of you, but you don't know where it came from. And I was like, yep, that's the same thing.

Sarah: That's it.

Paul: Yeah. That's the same thing.

Barbara: And trying to understand it and define it, I think it's a waste because it's, I think it's beyond us, but we have access to tried for

Paul: so long. Yeah. Because I think, well, we're going to, we're going to, I might just have to cut this out, but I think when you have an initial impulse towards it, it's almost, it's all magic.

And then you go, okay, how did I do that? Because I want to be a professional and I want this to be repeatable and I want to, yes, right. And I want to make sure I can do it again. And then I just go, whoop, all the way into my head for, I don't know, 15, 20 years. And then, and then you do all this work in a way to get back to that thing, because it does have to be repeatable.

And you do see, especially with young stars, people who've gotten [00:35:00] very big, and they don't know how they do what they do, and they become crazy monsters. Because they don't know, and they're scared. You

Sarah: don't have a technique back up for when the magic isn't in the room. Because the magic sometimes isn't in the room.

Paul: Right, but even as Barbara was saying, the technique to make yourself the open vessel to allow yourself to be that thing. That's a technique too, right? You have to exercise the muscle of being present, right? I mean, all those things. And that's where the Coke and the tequila comes in.

Barbara: Now I see. Now, now I see why.

Paul: Okay, we have another question. We have, uh, can I ask another, another question here? Um,

Barbara: we could have been two hours on this one.

Paul: I know, I know. We could really make this an acting podcast. Nobody would maybe listen, but we certainly, we certainly would. There'd be six kids in

Sarah: grad school somewhere who halfway through go, I don't think this is good advice.

Paul: Uh, uh, at Shereen Knights, C H E R I E N I [00:36:00] G H T S S asks, what was your experience stepping into a mostly male cast environment? Hmm.

Sarah: Remembering that it was 2006 or seven and so they were almost all mostly male cast environments back then. I guess. Yeah.

Paul: Maybe. How about, I'll, I'll, I'll add to yet another mostly male cast environment.

Barbara: I liked it. I liked it.

Paul: It was a macho show. I liked it. It wasn't something macho. I liked it.

Barbara: Even the extras, they'd be lined up and um, you know, because the set would be like left for the for the main actors until they're ready for that. They'd be lined up. I'd be walking by them saying good morning and just loving that wall of testosterone as I, as I walked into the studio.

And I, I, I like men a lot. I like their energy. And um, so it's, it's like was not a, it was nice. It was nice. Um,

Paul: we have to wrap it up because Sarah,

Barbara: we do, I want, I want to say, um, I'm sorry. [00:37:00] And Paul, you're absolutely a gentleman and a sweetheart and my encounters with you were wonderful. Um, although much briefer, um, I got to tell you, Sarah, even though I didn't work with you a whole lot, I saw you a fair bit on set and I'm still to this day.

So. amazed at how, not amazed, well, grateful and touched at how sweet and generous and gracious you were to me. There were times when you were walking up towards me and, and looking so happy to see me and, and I think, what, who's she, me? Is she, is she? How is she so happy about? Oh my god, you were just so lovely.

I was always so happy to see you. Oh lord. Yeah, it was a nice, nice experience.

Sarah: Well, hopefully we'll get to do an even three before our careers round out. There's something up ahead for us because it would be super wonderful. I'd love that, love that. And I will say, I'm grateful to hear you say that you loved that male energy.

I struggled with it sometimes. We've talked about this a little [00:38:00] bit. I was always happy to see you partly because you are who you are and you're somebody who really carries light. Um, and positivity. You were also another woman. There wasn't a lot of that going around. And so that combination, uh, always really was lovely.

But I, you know, I've, I've discovered that part of doing this, of sitting together with, you know, a close friend that I trust and looking over something that was so monumental in both of our lives is that you can almost start to tell yourself different stories about it. And there's a little bit of like a healing and a reclaiming.

Um, and when I talk to somebody who had such a positive experience and foregrounds that so much, like, I'm grateful for that on so many levels. Um, because I think I was talking to somebody about this just the other day and without getting into a whole like ontological spiritual thing, I think at a certain point we make choices about, uh, About victimhood or strength [00:39:00] and about remembering pain or choosing healing and I didn't realize Until we were halfway wherever we are in this season that that's part of what I'm doing here Oh, I'm looking back at a show.

That was wonderful and complicated and painful and going I'm gonna heal this because I want to love this as Purely and as wholly as the fans who come up because dude, I just got back from Uh Europe for I was telling Paul before you got on, I have never been recognized more in my life. Not peak Walking Dead, not when the show was on.

And it's wild because it's Prison Break and it's that it's back on Netflix. And I see the joy that it brings to folks. Yes. And I'm like, yeah, man, what a beautiful thing. What a beautiful thing. So anyway, thank you for being, um, one of the, the hands to hold to move towards that, like, full positivity, because that's really beautiful.

That's a great [00:40:00] thing that you

Barbara: said. It's about stories that we tell ourselves. I mean, the reality is what it is. Our experience of it is, um, moldable, changeable by us. And we want to be happy. We want to be fulfilled. We want to feel good. Um, we decide to do that.

Sarah: Amen.

Paul (2): Amen.

Sarah: Um, okay. Before we let you go, we have one wrap up question.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Wrap up question. That we ask every guest this season. Paul, do you want to hit her with the wrap up question? Which

Paul: is, uh, uh, uh, season specific. Last season it was, uh, what was it last season? It was your last meal. Last meal. This season it is If you had to go on, if the authorities were after you, if they're finally closing in and you had to disappear to some place.

Sarah: This is fake. It's okay. Don't get stressed. Yeah, they're not.

Barbara: As far as we know. They're not coming. This is fake stress, okay? This is fake. Okay, good.

Paul: Uh, where would you, where would you go to disappear and start your new life? To

Barbara: disappear and start my new [00:41:00] life. And this has to be quick, so I will just say,

Kauai. Oh, good one. . Beautiful small un Yep. Unbothered island.

Paul: Uh, how's that? I dunno.

Barbara: I dunno. That's

Paul: a great answer. Sarah froze, but she is also a native Hawaiian. Oh, I couldn't realize. Uh, she, I was born and raised. Yeah, I didn't realize that. But she froze. So I think I will just take the reins here and wrap up because she maybe.

Barbara: Maybe I sent her back somewhere in time. Gone,

Paul: or she's, look at that look on her face. It's an amazing face. It's very flattering. Barbara, it was so good to see you. for everything.

Barbara: Thank you, Paul. Thank you, Sarah. Okay, take care. All the best.

Paul: Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Caliber Studio production.

Your hosts have been inmates, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Adelstein, our prison warden's producer, Ben Haber. The front man of our jailhouse rock band is Paul Adelstein, who made all the music. Our prison yard tattoo artist, logo, and [00:42:00] brand designer is John Nunziato and Little Big Brands. Check them out at LittleBigBrands.com. Follow us on Instagram and YouTube @PrisonBreakPodcast. Email us at pbpodcast@caliber-studio.Com and call us at (401) 3-PBREAK. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Caliber Studio production. Thank you for listening.