00;00;00;00 - 00;00;29;13 Blake: You're listening to Within Our Reach, a podcast by reachAbility Association that focuses on accessibility, inclusion and leveling the playing field at work and in your community. My name is Blake Hunsley and my co-host is Shelley Alward-MacLeod. And today we're joined by reachAbility’s Building on Self-Awareness and Self-Confidence Facilitator, Emmerie Parsons. In today's episode we'll be focusing our conversation around an article entitled DEI Needs to Include Socioeconomic Diversity by Maya Richard Craven, which appeared in the February 2024 edition of Forbes magazine. A link to the article will be included in the show notes. Enjoy the episode.

Shelley: Well, thanks for that wonderful introduction. I'm Shelley and I'm here with my co-host Blake. And today's guest. Emmerie, thanks for joining us, Emmerie. It's always delightful to hear your perspective on things, and we're so glad you're here. Why don't you take this opportunity to introduce yourself?

00;00;52;16 - 00;01;20;18 Emmerie: Hello. Hello. My name is Emmerie. I am a facilitator here at reachAbility. I facilitate BOSS, which is a self-management program, and I am so excited to talk about this article.

Blake We're excited to have you here. Thank you for coming in.

Shelley: Exactly. So, Emmerie, I know that you you and I talked before the session today and you've had an opportunity to really look into the article and we were talking about like statistics.

00;01;20;20 - 00;01;52;17 Unknown So what was your initial takeaway? And I think you might want to talk about some of those statistics.

Emmerie: Yeah, I think Maya, the author really hit the mark with this entire article. When I went to find some stats on Canada, because this is based in the U.S., what she wrote, I found here that statistically within the black community in Canada, 15% were living in low income conditions, and that is a higher percentage than any other non racialized population. So that is a huge portion that you're leaving out when you're not talking about them in these situations.

Shelley: Absolutely. Yeah, that that's great. As always, I love the fact that you get right into and and I want to just get this right out there at the beginning because I think this is important for us to address right away is the whole piece on tokenism. You know, I hear so much like when, you know, boards or companies are wanting to hire people that it's a tokenism issue. What are your thoughts around around that?

Emmerie: I think it's very obvious when somebody is being tokenized straight. Hey, Charles, why don't you sit in on our meeting? We'll have the camera set up so that we take a bunch of photos of you and put it up on the website. Right. But we don't allow you to speak the entire meeting. That is a perfect example of We just want you there to make the room a bit more racialized. Right. And so when you are incorporating that into a DEI situation and you are just pushing these racialized people into a group just so that you're checking off a box, it's a really bad look.

00;03;09;27 - 00;03;40;18 Shelley: It is. And I I'm I'm so happy you said that and that we're having this conversation because I actually see that you see that often on conference panels where you have, you know, somebody from another race, another group who's sitting at the table and they'd never been asked a question. So it's as though they're a mannequin that's been just placed there for the photo opportunity.

00;03;40;20 - 00;04;07;29

And that for me is I'm like, when is that person speaking? It is very noticeable right. So I wanted to know because that to me is very important. So one of the things that we we see here, and I'd like to really get your thoughts on this is how do you think the lack of focus on the socioeconomic diversity impacts the DTI movement? What are your thoughts on that?

Emmerie: I think when you make a commitment to put together a DEI committee, you are making a commitment to be an ally for so many different groups of people. And when it comes to DEI, intersectionality should be your biggest focus, right? Somebody or one person doesn't just check off one box. Right. For myself, I have anxiety. I'm a woman and I'm black, so I'm checking off multiple boxes. And if I'm just focusing on one, I mean, I'm leaving a really big aspects of myself. Right. So low income communities, when they're left being left out, you are removing a lot of voices and you are not hitting the mark with what your intention should be.

Shelley: Exactly. Your statistic of 15%, you know, I want to I want to circle back to that. If we think just in the sort of hiring, because hiring seems to be for workplaces such a big topic of hiring, that's 15% of the population that we're not talking to. Yes. Right. If we're putting together a focus group on building a new school or a new community center, and we're not specifically talk of that 15% of the population that will be likely users. Of that program or space that we're not talking with big number.

Emmerie: Yeah. And with low income families, oftentimes it's there's a stigma around it, right. It's frowned upon or you came from a poor family. What does that mean for your career? Right. Would you be able to see eye to eye with people who came up in a privileged family? So it oftentimes is brushed under the rug because it's embarrassing to talk about. So why bring it up? Right. But it needs to be talked about because there are struggles and barriers that these people faced growing up that made them stronger. So I want to share another step that I found because God knows I love stats. On future outlook, so despite persistent challenges that the black population have encountered, this population demonstrates resilience and continue us upward trend in both employment and education. So in 2022, the stats were 72.5%. That marked hopeful. When it comes to the future versus the other part of the population, the rest, which was only 64.1. So despite all those barriers that they faced, they still have so much potential and they have this eagerness to get out there. You know, so removing that voice is it's it's really sad.

Blake: Do you find, too, when people are talking about DTI and they're leaving out the economics of it, I find it really disingenuous. I find it very hard to trust a person who's talking as if they have my community's best interests at heart. When they're disregarding honestly what is probably some of the biggest struggles on the day to day. If you can't put food on your table, it's very hard to focus on it. You know, it's very hard to focus on the merits of belonging. For example, if I can't actually feed my family. So I do, I find it I find it harder to take some DEI professionals seriously if they are especially someone who and, you know, don't judge a book by its cover, but if somebody is, if somebody is presenting as someone who has a privileged background. Yeah, I do. I find it much harder to take them seriously. It's a big gap for me.

Emmerie: Yeah. me too. Right. There is already this idea of how easy it was for them throwing out. Great. Yeah.

Blake: Not to negate other challenges, but, yeah, it's a I guess we you know, we're such a money oriented society. We are, for better or for worse, that. Yeah, other problems start to pale in comparison. And not just maybe for me. I'm, you know, I'm not Black-Canadian, so I can't speak to that. Is it is it a battle between the two? I guess. Is it a matter of prioritizing? Can we prioritize both or does it seem like if you're not prioritizing the economics of it, that maybe people feel that you don't have a right to be focusing on the other things because you're missing something so key?

Shelley: I think while with DEI, you should be focusing on everyone. So that means including the people that grew up in a middle or upper class and also lower class. And that's not hard to do, right? We're not asking to kick somebody out of the group in the book club. We're just asking for everybody to have a voice on the panel.

Shelley: Right, exactly. And I think one of the things that I think we miss as well and I again, because I don't come from the Black community and I did grow up in a privileged background. So it's only because of having these kind of open conversations that I find out more about what's happening in the world. But one of the things that I've heard just here in our city of Halifax or HRM or whatever we're supposed to call it.

Blake: Greater Dartmouth.

00;09;31;21 - 00;10;01;26 Shelley: Okay. Well, I know those of us that live in Dartmouth like to say we live in Dartmouth, but I've heard from, you know, people that live in communities that are a bit outside of the city that they're very eager to participate. They don't have the means to participate. And it is socioeconomic. The busses team doesn't go out to their community.

00;10;01;27 - 00;10;27;08 Shelley: Yeah. Right. Or the bus system operates on a platter. And that's not going to be conducive for them to participate. And we don't we don't think about that. It's not that they don't want to participate. It's not that people don't want to participate. We often haven't thought about that. There. In a lot of cases, I've heard that many communities that are underserved are underserved by many things.

00;10;27;10 - 00;10;53;10 Shelley: Grocery stores. Yeah. So, you know, what are your thoughts on that? How do we do a better job on that?

Emmerie: Well, I think an example is the clientele that I work with. I myself did not come from a low income. I came from a middle class family, but I worked with people that come from low income housing families. Right. And so I have to be understanding. I have to educate myself so that I can meet them where they are now and not expect them to meet me. Right. And that makes all the difference. It's me, you know, removing whatever bias or judgment that I have towards people that come from low income families and just focus on, okay, what do you need right now to make it easier?

00;11;19;24 - 00;11;40;02 Blake: Absolutely. This story and it's actually brings up a question I had while reading the article and something that I wrote the quote down here from the article is it is some advice that we're giving about about engaging different economic groups in DEI meetings. And it was business leaders can start with, including people who are currently low income and DEI conversations, workshops, meetings, conferences and committees.

00;11;40;05 - 00;12;07;29 Blake: Now you're talking about some of the work that you do to make yourself more relatable, I guess, to clients in low income situations, business leaders. I mean, you work for a nonprofit, you're a very empathetic person. You're in a position where you help people every day. I don't want to slag off all business leaders, but I think a lot of a lot of big business leaders in particular wouldn't necessarily have the skills, naturally to approach someone in a low economic situation in a tactful, delicate, helpful way. So what sort of practical advice would you give to somebody who maybe is from a privileged background is, say, running a company, but they want to do the right thing. They want to start bringing everybody into the conversation. How can they do that in a way that's respectful?

Emmerie: I think the word that pops up is trust, right?

00;12;28;25 - 00;13;01;19 Emmerie: And it can be heard when you have these big, scary business people that are seeking these this demographic that just naturally don't mesh together. Honestly. Really. So, for example, if you have a very large business in the center of a city and someone who comes from a very poor family, say a black individual walks in and looks around and sees no other black people, no other black power in charge, they're not going to feel comfortable in that space.

00;13;01;25 - 00;13;29;17 Emmerie: So why are they stick around? Right. So I think for your question, if there is somebody who is in a, you know, a business role or managing role seeking these low income voices, I think the first thing they should do is to integrate themselves in communities that they otherwise haven't already. So that means going out. Leave the office, go take a trip to a community and listen.

00;13;29;19 - 00;14;02;20 Emmerie: Keyword. Listen. I think that's advice I hear a lot and see not take in, sadly, is like, yeah, that doesn't mean you're going to a poor community and giving a presentation that's so tone deaf. I just mean going to community and just asking them, I want to hear from you.

Shelley: I think that that's key because what you were while you were saying that, I was actually envisioning, they're going to go out to the community center and tell the people what they mean.

00;14;02;22 - 00;14;26;14 Shelley: Okay, I'm here to give you this or to help with this without actually asking what supports. Yeah, you know, how can I help you? What? You know what? How can we make it more inclusive for you?

Blake: I sat in a meeting once, I sat at a meeting once here in Halifax, and it was I don't remember why this gentleman was here in town, but he was an MP from out in Alberta.

00;14;26;16 - 00;14;44;07 Blake: I'll leave you to guess the party affiliation when we're off mic. It should be nice and obvious, but this was. This is probably ten years ago. So it was when a lot of a lot of people were going out west for work. Our economy's never been super strong here, but at the time it was even worse. And so he came and he was talking to a political science class.

00;14;44;07 - 00;15;03;00 Blake: And that's why he was here. And his advice was that he didn't understand why we weren't all thrilled at the concept of moving to Alberta for work We could make so much money. Just came into this group and had no concept of our community identity and no concept of why we would want to stay here in our home and build our communities.

00;15;03;02 - 00;15;18;19 Blake: His advice was just to come in and say You could make money by getting the hell away from everyone you know and love. And I've never found anyone so tone deaf in my life. But but that's what it would feel like having someone come in from their boardroom and coming in saying, You can be rich, too. Like, Yeah, no, you're right.

00;15;18;19 - 00;15;36;20 Blake: They need to come and sit and not talk. It would be the best advice, I think.

Emmerie: Yeah, let's not put people who have never experienced that type of thing in their lives and talk for the people that has some really bad look.

Blake: Well, this was ten years ago and I can still remember it like it was yesterday. It stuck with me that much.

00;15;36;20 - 00;16;03;01 Shelley: So. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And trust, you know, back to, you know, the thing that you said as well, Emmerie, about about trust, I think that is important. And trust starts with finding one little way that we can talk to each other. Right. And you're right. Coming into an organization or going to a conference or going to anywhere, Right.

00;16;03;03 - 00;16;31;22 Shelley: Where nobody looks like you. Yeah, right. Doesn't matter whether you're black, indigenous, you know, you have a visible disability when nobody looks at you, you're you're not really sure. You don't trust that they understand who you are. They don't distrust you, don't trust that they want you to be included. So I think that's really that's really important. That's a good takeaway for our listeners, too.

00;16;31;25 - 00;17;05;07 Shelley: They need to think about that is trust. And we talk about that. That whole genuine ness, like, you know, what's the curiosity? Good. Why, Mr. CEO. Right. Are you going to that community? What's your intent? And yeah, that that type of thing cannot be faked.

Emmerie: Right. Right. It's so how. it's so obvious. Even tell when somebody is be authentic and when they're just putting on a show, you can truly see it because afterwards, you know, they'll be the little whispers 'Oh, that was horrrible. Why'd he come here?'

00;17;05;10 - 00;17;25;09 Shelley: Now, tell me, why do you come here and does it start to talk like now? You've said that you've put it in my head. I almost wished we were like on video. This is one of those times where I want to demonstrate, like the person walking in. They walk in and they walk past everybody to their chair at the front of the room where they're sitting.

00;17;25;09 - 00;18;04;14 Shelley: Well, because that's where they naturally belong in their mind. And it's so different when in fact the people who are really good and we'll talk about inclusive leadership in other sessions. But you know, the person who walks in and who has genuine curiosity stops at the door. Yeah, right. And usually the sessions ready to start and somebody actually has to go get that person because they're so busy talking and having genuine conversation with everybody so that by the time that person gets to that chair at the front of the room to do their presentation or whatever the conversation is going to be, they've already bought some credibility.

00;18;04;17 - 00;18;24;25 Shelley: Right. People were now willing to listen as opposed to well here we go, who's this suit?

Blake:

Well even in the article, just to just to get back to talking with people who don't in particular, who don't look like you or let's broaden and say, aren't a member of your in-group. Right. Coming in. And it it feels sort of like lecturing And then they talk to in the article too.

00;18;24;25 - 00;18;56;01 Blake: But even when someone is a member of your in-group and they come in and they may resemble you, they may share certain elements of your culture, but it's so very rarely someone who grew up in a low economic situation, it's almost always a person of privilege. So I'm kind of torn in this. Is that necessarily a bad thing out of the gate, or does somebody say you have someone from your cultural in-group who has made it wealthy and started it in a low economic situation?

00;18;56;03 - 00;19;24;18 Blake: Is there almost an onus on that person to be the person leading the engagement? Do they get do they owe something to their community? Do you think it's.

Emmerie: I think some people would argue yes. And some of them are, you know, I mean, if you choose that, okay, I know where I came from. I'm going to give back to my community because I you know, I built myself up so much that I'm able to now, then that is rewarding.

00;19;24;18 - 00;20;00;23 Emmerie: That would make them feel good. And if they as long as they're not gloating about it. look at you. You too can be this great, great, authentic. Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. It works for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shelley: No, I think. I think that that seems to be that seems to be a bit of a take on it, because one of the things that the article talks about is when we're just focusing on race or gender or sexual orientation, right?

00;20;00;26 - 00;20;39;29 Shelley: We're often missing the boat on the socio-economic. And I know here, you know, we've been talking about, you know, the black community. Right. But that's also put putting a bit of a stigma on the fact that everybody from the black community is from a low income background. Yeah, right. So in this article, she was really driving home that, you know, some of those pieces are true DEI, some are tokenism, but forcing us to come back to socio-economic because there's people from all, you know, diverse backgrounds.

00;20;40;03 - 00;21;13;13 Shelley: Right. That are likely in a low income situation.

Emmerie: Yeah. I did a presentation at a conference once about the importance of literacy and low socioeconomic communities, and the feedback I got was so appreciative because it wasn't talked about enough and I outlined the importance of literacy in the in the the doors that it will open for you. Something so small as to learning how to read fluently or how to write beautifully. Right. That is that's a huge, huge skill that can take you a long way. And oftentimes in low income communities it's forgotten about. It's not so important.

Shelley: And that's the stigma. You talked before a bit about a stigma or yeah, embarrassed literacy as one of those biggest things where people often in, you know, poverty level have not had an opportunity to maybe finish school.

00;21;49;12 - 00;22;17;04 Right. And therefore, their level of reading to do sometimes things like fill out an application, absolute form.

Emmerie: And oftentimes it's things that are so out of their control, like their schooling was not good enough and did not care enough for their success, or they had to leave school early to help mom and dad pay the bills. Right. Their barriers that they had more important things to take care of. Then learning how to read and write, which is sad.

Shelley: Very. So I mean, I think that this this is this is really shedding a light on on a topic both from a diversity point of view, but thinking of diversity, not just from our cultural background, but thinking of diversity also perhaps from a socio-economic, which is one of the reasons why I was really excited to talk about this topic because I think it covers it can cover people in multiple groups, right?

00;22;54;02 - 00;23;22;11

It effects everyone. Right. So and probably there's probably leaders who are still trying to find their way in DEI, thinking what? There's now another thing that I need to think of? I mean, I've done enough write and I get that, but I also think it's another piece of our unconscious bias.

Emmerie: Yeah, I love what Maya wrote here. Caring about DTI should go beyond your 9 to 5 job. Impactful DEI efforts involve being an ally 365 days of the year.

Blake: Which I think we need to add the caveat that we acknowledge that can be so hard and so exhausting for so many people. It really can, especially when so many people are going home to, let's be honest, families, sometimes significant others who really don't buy into some of the core concepts of DEI can be really difficult.

00;23;48;22 - 00;24;09;05 Blake: I find, too, there's an argument that I've been hearing a lot where you get shaped. We get focused on certain elements of DEI and then people will say, Well, you know, the economics of it, poverty affects every group that you're talking about, and they almost start to get mad that you're focusing on, You know what? I'm using air quotes on an audio podcast, excuse me, but but focusing on the unimportant things that you're not focusing on the things that are truly important. So my question is, should we be focused more on lifting everybody just by focusing on the economics of it? Or or is each group that we're talking about are needs so different that we really can't just focus on one broad thing in an attempt to lift all boats, as they say?

Emmerie: I think you would be kind of a shortcut to lift everyone equally because everybody has their own needs and necessities, right? I think that comes back to equity versus equality. Yes. Thank you.

Blake: Yes. I find it a lazy argument personally when I hear it, I hear it a lot. I swear any time you hear someone who's supposed to be representing the economic left, especially politically. Yeah. Talking about any sort of cultural inequality, you get someone to rolls their eyes and just is. Can you please talk about the minimum wage? It's okay. We can walk, talking, chew gum at the same time, and it's important that we try. So I'm glad. I'm glad you agreed. Thank you. Yeah. I thought I was on the wrong track. So let's go.

Emmerie: DEI is complicated. Yes, And it is tiring. Yeah, So let's talk about that. It's tiring. It's exhausting being an ally, because you have to consider a lot of different factors. Like intersectionality is very complex.

Shelley: Very. And and I'm, I think our are and because they are viewers I think that's important like we are recognizing that this is a lot of work.

00;25;51;08 - 00;26;16;28 Shelley: It's not something that's going to end. There is a lot of heavy lifting that needs to happen by everybody and I think in different areas at different times. And I think it requires on everybody's part a lot of self-reflection. Yeah, right on, you know, self-reflection for me personally. Okay, What do I know? What do I don't know? Right.

00;26;17;02 - 00;26;44;17 Shelley: Which is a lot. All right. That I don't know. And then going into that, if I'm sitting on a corporate head table. Right. And talking about from a DEI perspective, what does our organization want to do? We're likely not going to do every single thing, you know, And to think that we're going to meet every single need by the end of the year is unrealistic and just crazy.

00;26;44;20 - 00;27;10;06 Shelley: But for our organization, based on who we are and who we serve in the community or should be serving in the community, what perhaps could we be doing? And it may very well be that we're in a position to support, you know, food insecurity. It might be that we're in a position to be supporting employment programs for underprivileged area educational needs.

00;27;10;06 - 00;27;33;08 Shelley: Right. So I think I think if everybody was able to, you know, think, think about and self-reflect from personally, but also organizationally, where should we really be?

Emmerie: We should focus on the things that you can do. Correct. And stop trying to do things that, you know you can't. Right. Because it's going to fail and it's going to look really bad.

00;27;33;11 - 00;27;55;09 Shelley: And and that's probably where we are. That's probably where we we get to some of these things of of tokenism even. Right. It's not I'm sure it's not intentional to hurt somebody's feelings. Right. Or to coming across as rude and disrespectful. But it's people thinking I have to do something in every area. Yeah. Yeah, right. One, that's not true.

00;27;55;10 - 00;28;11;29 Blake: We talk about the concept around here sometimes of rejecting the good for the perfect, because we want a solution that's going to lift everybody. We want to fix all problems at one time, and, well, this only helps this one group, so that's not good enough. In my opinion, we really need to get away from that. Help where you can should be our mantra,if everyone helped where we can, everyone's going to be helping in little areas.

Emmerie: But being an ally doesn't mean that you have to be perfect.You're going to make mistakes.

Blake: And you don't have to be a free consultant is another thing we talk around here.

00;28;28;03 - 00;28;46;03 Blake: It's it's not, in my in my head, it's not quite as bad as tokenism, but it's not that far away. And I'm sure I mean, tell me if this has happened to you. But I can tell just by looking at his picture on your face that it has, you know, you're not necessarily being tokenized in that you're being put in the front of the room and going, wow, look at Emmerie.

00;28;46;03 - 00;29;21;00 Blake: Aren't we diverse? Yeah, No, you're being asked every question as if you are the font of all Black Canadian knowledge and you're not being compensated for that time. That's the part that drives me crazy, especially when we're talking about engaging people from low economic communities. Great, pay them, pay them for their knowledge, time and expertise.

Emmerie: Yeah, I've been asked questions before where it was pertaining to like the black community, and I looked at them and I said, I have no idea why you're asking me right now, because I don't speak for the entire Black community in Canada.

00;29;21;00 - 00;29;49;14 Emmerie: That's impossible, right? I have my own lived experiences. I can say that I was privileged enough to not live in a low income house. I came from a middle, an upper middle class home, and I'm so thankful for that. And I'm I'm able to recognize that my upbringings are different from those who didn't experience that. So I'm not going to speak for people who grew up in low income housing.That's not my place.

Shelley: Well, and thank you for saying that. I think that's important for our listeners to hear that everybody's lived experience is different. Yeah, that's one key point. And the other point about this whole perfectionism that I always like to remind people, people say, Shelly, you're just so rudely reminding me every day that I'm not perfect and you're not I'm not perfect, and we're never going to be perfect.

00;30;17;07 - 00;30;38;17 Shelley: It's a continuous learning cycle. Yeah. Yeah. So it's so important to remember.

Blake: I wonder if that's part of what part of what holds us back in the DEI sphere from talking about economics more and poverty more and engaging with people from low economic backgrounds is I don't know if we're afraid that we're going to embarrass people by talking about money.

00;30;38;17 - 00;31;03;02 Blake: We seem to think talking about money, especially if you haven't historically had it is shameful. In my in my very socialist opinion, it's shameful that we allow our society to operate where some people don't have money. But I think we really need to get away from both ends of it. Really Taking pride in your economic success. I could do with a lot less of that, but also of of allowing this shame, this feeling of shame around poverty to perpetuate.

00;31;03;04 - 00;31;20;18 Blake: It's I don't want to say it's never the fault of anyone who's in a low economic situation, but it's very rarely because the fault.

Emmerie:

Because the focus, I think sometimes it's more on it's not so much on the economy that you're living in it so much as What didn't you do that you were able to provide?

Blake: Yes. How did you not try?

00;31;20;19 - 00;31;49;08 Emmerie: Right. Yeah, let's totally forget the state of the economy right now. Why aren't you trying hard enough right now or historically? And who's been allowed to participate in housing? Exactly. Yeah.

Shelley: And and, and let's come back to a point that Emmerie made before is, you know, showcasing, you know, people from underserved communities that have had success. There's a difference in showcasing, you know, like building them up versus, you know, them.

00;31;49;11 - 00;32;20;10 Shelley: I think having to say unless they're a what was the word you used to bless their being conceited or about, you know, like, yeah, about what they've done. bragging. I'm like a millionaire now what. Why can't you do that? Right. Yeah, Like that, I think is is the difference, right? Like when you know, I don't think it's, you know, everybody has like there are differences of opinions.

00;32;20;10 - 00;32;47;29 Shelley: Obviously. But I don't have a problem with talking about money per se. But I wouldn't ever talk about like how much I have versus how much you don't have. Right. I'm happy to talk about, you know, if people want to know, like, what can I do to, you know, to get some of the things that they perceive I have.

00;32;47;29 - 00;33;21;05 Shelley: Yeah. Which is also sometimes a wrong perception as well. Right. We all have different perceptions. But I think, you know, it's you need to be careful about how how you talk about money. Right. And you know, we often have have perceptions. Well, that person drives this car. They must have a lot of money. That person later in this house, they must have a lot of money or even they could be one day away from it getting taken away.

Emmerie:

Do not make assumptions about how people are living. They could be driving this fancy, fancy car and they are in so much debt. Yeah, right, right.

Blake: And it's the same when we look at certain groups like people asking you, what about poverty in the Black community? Why am I expected to know? Like, it's not every person in this community that is having to deal with that, right?

00;33;40;25 - 00;34;13;29 Shelley: Yeah. So, Emmerie, this has been a very lively conversation. And as always, it's a bit time, too, to wrap up. We didn't have any any questions from our our viewers, our listeners. But why don't you give us sort of your highlights? So what could people do? What are some priorities that people can be doing to be more cognizant, if you will, of these socioeconomic circumstances?

00;34;14;04 - 00;34;37;07 Emmerie: I think the first thing is self-awareness. let's be self-aware people, okay? Let's be aware of when you are hitting the mark and when you're not. So if you were putting together a DEI committee just because you're trying to think, well, how can we get all of our workers together and mingle, Well, let's create a DEI committee and all it is, is everybody just having lunch together.

00;34;37;10 - 00;35;00;15 Emmerie: So realize when it's time to remove the names and just call it lunch club, right? Yeah. I love that. DEI is a commitment and it's something that you take on and it lives with you outside of work. You bring that with you. You don't just shut the door behind you and forget about DEI altogether. So it's something that you integrate in your everyday living.

00;35;00;18 - 00;35;28;01 Emmerie: Becoming an ally is an important component of being part of a DEI committee of some sort and recognize equity is going to be more beneficial than equality. Everybody has different needs and being able to put your pride aside and go into a community and say, I'm uneducated and I need to know more. I need to listen, I don't need to talk, I just need to listen.

00;35;28;03 - 00;36;05;05 Emmerie: Bottom line is, DTI is not something that you just wake up on a train on Thursday and you've accomplished an and it's not going to happen.

Shelley: Yes, I love that. But that's a that's a pretty good that's a pretty good summation. I'm happy to hear of that. Exactly. And the other takeaway that I do, I wanted to highlight and you didn't say it in your summation, but you had said it earlier, was that you were actually grateful for what you had, that you had a, you know, upper middle class and that you are privileged, the house that you live in.

00;36;05;12 - 00;36;31;09 Shelley: I think it is also okay. And that's not bragging. I I'm thankful every day that I didn't have to worry about food security. Right. Right. However, there I need to recognize the thing I can do is recognize that not everybody was as fortunate or is as fortunate as me. Yeah. What can I do to make myself more aware of those around me?

00;36;31;16 - 00;36;52;04 Shelley: There could. There could be and there have been. And I was not aware enough to see it. There were people in my very close circle who were struggling with food security. Right. Yeah. And I didn't know that. So my ability to help in the moment was being aware. And then just in my circle, there were people I could help.

00;36;52;06 - 00;37;15;19 Shelley: Yeah. So I think that's a good thing as to, you know, should recognize self. It probably does fit into your self versus the person.

Blake: Yeah, absolutely. And if you're going to someone for real honest advice and expertise from first person experience one last time, pay them, pay them for their time. They are not your free consultant and your free all access pass to that community. Pay them.

00;37;15;21 - 00;37;38;27 Shelley: It also shows a commitment. Shows a commitment. We're inviting somebody not to talk about their lived experiences, provide them with something that's real to them.

Blake: And if we're going to operate in such a much money based culture, then yet show them they're important to you the most base way you can because it's the most effective, right?

Shelley: Just like we have for this session here today. Like we have provided donuts.

Blake: We have. And not only that, but I don't knowa bout you...

Shelley: And Skor bars for Emmerie's attendance efforts.

Blake: And not only that, tactically, Emmerie and I are on the clock, today, I don't know how you're being compensated...

Shelley:

Oh my goodness there is no equality here!

00;38;01;15 - 00;38;14;08 Unknown thanks for listening to Within Our Reach. We'll be back in two weeks with our next episode. If you have an idea for an episode topic you'd like us to cover, or if you'd like to join us as a guest on the podcast, reach out to us withinourreach@reachability.org.