Welcome =to=== Alumni Live: The Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University film and video

graduates about the industry, the film/video, major and alumni profiles.

Welcome back to the podcast.

I'm Caroline Hamilton, and I'm a fourth year at GVSU, and today I'm here

talking with Kyle Macciome and Caitlyn Shaw about getting involved on campus.

We're going to be talking a little bit about clubs on campus employment,

and kind of anything else you can do on campus to get experience.

So for starters, if you guys want to introduce yourself

. Hi everyone, my name is Caitlyn Shaw, I am a third year here at GVSU, I've

been involved with a couple of film and video related things I say yes to way

too many things which has led me to a lot of really cool groups of people.

As far as clubs go, I've been a member of and also on the eboard for two clubs,

Women in Cinema club and Continuous Screenwriting club here on campus.

And then work wise, I've worked at both The Bridge and currently I

work at WGVU in the downtown campus.

And then yeah, my name is Kyle Macciome.

I am a former film and video graduate from the year 2020.

Basically since then, I went on and get a Master's in Education Technology at GVSU.

Basically focusing on educational video.

And then, immediately after that, I started working at GVSU at a place

called The Bridge , which is a place where we collaborate with student

workers, usually film majors, to create educational video content for professors

all across the university to use.

So I have the experiences of being a former student, someone who's

involved a lot in extracurricular activities, and now an employer

somehow here at the university.

Very cool.

And I'm also involved with Caitlyn on the Women in Cinema club and

also Continuous Script Writing club.

I also have been working at The Bridge for a little bit now and Production

Support Resources, the equipment room.

But let's start with clubs.

There's quite a few film clubs on campus that come and go, and students are open

to start their own clubs at any point.

But let's start with GVTV.

So Kyle, do you want to talk about that?

Absolutely.

So I spent all four years as an undergrad in film and video at

GVTV at Grand Valley Television.

I cannot speak, whether you are listening to this now or in the future,

I cannot speak to the current status of GVTV, of the current quality of GVTV.

I don't know.

I've been out of the university for a while, but I know that it has ebbed

and flow in terms of how present it's been, how active it's been.

The pandemic certainly smashed it down quite a bit as everything

went remote right as I was leaving.

But what I can say is that I view the four years that I spent as an undergrad in film

and video the education that I received, I would say half of it with regards

to film was my actual film classes.

The other half was the time that I spent in GVTV.

And that's just because you just need to have the time to be able to be around

like minded individuals, people who want to create things, and you go out with the

resources that GVTV provided us, which was a lot of film equipment, a lot of

physical spaces to record, and a lot of cameras and microphones and lighting.

Ways to fail, essentially.

I always recommend people fail faster, as much as possible.

Make the bad short films, make the bad videos as soon as you

can, because then you'll know.

Oopsie daisy, we recorded all day, and we have no audio.

That's the last time you're probably gonna do that.

Oopsie daisy, the lens cap was on, or the focus was out, or we don't actually

understand how to not corrupt the video files once we get them onto the computer.

The sooner you do that, the better of a video creator you are going to be,

and places like GVTV are places where you're gonna be able to experiment.

You're also going to have those opportunities in the

class, but ultimately, you know, those can ebb and flow.

It depends on what your schedule is, semester to semester.

Maybe you've backlogged a lot of those production classes and you're starting

off with a lot of the theory classes.

I think first semester freshmen, second semester freshmen, as soon as possible,

get involved into something like GVTV.

And regardless of what GVTV is at the moment you're listening to this,

find other people who, outside of the classroom, want to create things.

And I can really only recommend that again, and again.

Because I know that I made three times, four times the amount of stuff in

GVTV than what I made in my classes.

And every time I made something, I learned a little bit more along the way.

So when I started, I walked in, it was a big room, I was

very scared, I was a freshman.

And, the real truth of the matter, I just told you how important it

is to do GVTV as soon as possible I went to the first meeting, and

then I didn't go to a single meeting for the rest of the first semester.

I wanted to hang out, I wanted to do college, I was like, I was intimidated

by all these people, and it was strange.

It was strange.

And it was only at the start of my second semester when I got an email

because I was still on their email list and said, Hey, we're trying to

create the show called "Catastrophe".

And we'd like people to join on and I just showed up.

And because I showed up, they said, Hey, do you want to direct an episode?

I said, what's the show?

And they're like, that's going to be like "The Office" and also "Arrested

Development" and three other things.

And it's called "Catastrophe".

We were all young and we were all trying to do things.

We all wanted to make something big and grand and epic.

We said, we're gonna make 10 episodes in a single semester, and each

episode's gonna be 21 minutes long.

And they're all gonna be, like, with multiple characters and scripts

and all of these different things.

Yeah we didn't even do a fraction of that because we were really just overwhelming

ourselves and we flew too close to the sun way too quickly and we burned out very

fast, but through the rubble of that I said okay I need to ditch this and find

something else and I found something called "Late Night Brew", which is I think

a much better model which was basically like we're going to do a late night

comedy talk show sitcom sketch thing.

And it was basically just like hey it's just going to be a collection

of shorts so that means like you can come in and be like I have an

idea and then you go and shoot it.

And then you have your little three minute thing, and then it was bad.

But then you come back a few weeks later and be like, Hey, I made another

one, and this one's not that bad.

And you do that again, and again.

And that was a really great experience.

And I did that first with "Late Night Brew." And then I started getting

on the e board, basically, because they said, Hey, we have an e board

open, and we need someone to do it.

And that's the thing, and Caitlyn's probably gonna tell you, too.

Half of the times that you have opportunities, it's just because

someone says, we need someone to do it, and no one's raising their hand.

And you might not know how to do it, I started on a board as a Public Relations

Specialist, I didn't know anything about PR, I just said, I want to do things.

And then I faked it until I made it, and then the next year I was president.

Somehow that happens.

And so then I was president of GVTV and I felt very proud of my time there.

We made a lot of stuff.

Very few of it good.

But I was just really happy of the idea again of like I want as many people here

utilizing these resources getting to know other people because that's the other

thing is like sometimes you only meet these film majors that you're with in the

classes you're in and that's not enough time to build bonds build connections.

This is the network that you're building for any of your

projects that you want to do.

If you want to do a senior thesis, your senior year, you're going to need to spend

the three years leading up to it, knowing people and working on their stuff and

saying, Hey, I'm going to work on your thing and you're going to work on mine.

And that's like the gift economy of your labor being something very

valuable and being very appreciative when someone else gives it to you.

And so whether that be GVTV or anything else, it really is finding those avenues

to connect with as many people as possible and finding the people you gel with the

most and spending more time with those people and doing that as soon as you can.

That kind of transitions, I think, into Women in Cinema with what you said about

just volunteering to be on the board.

Me and Caitlyn can both probably attest to this, but Women in Cinema came out of

the pandemic of wanting to create a space for women and non-binary students who

are the minority in the film industry.

And so we wanted to create a space where those people could come

together and create a safe space.

Once the students who were on the eboard originally graduated, I ended

up just randomly stepping up because I didn't want the club to go away.

And Caitlyn also did that.

So Caitlyn, I will throw it to you to talk about Women in Cinema.

Women in Cinema was a club I always knew I wanted to be a part of from when

I first saw them at Campus Life Night.

For a little bit of context about me like, I always knew I wanted to do something

creative, but I didn't know what.

And like, my eureka moment was, I saw Ava DuVernay giving like, an

interview on being a director, and I'm like, that's an option?

Cause, like seeing is believing, there's just not as many representations, both

on and off screen, of women in film.

I really wanted this space where you can cultivate relationships with other

women and non binary people in film and have that like, common understanding.

And I've really loved all my years at the club, I've been here

since my first week when I was a freshman all the way up till now.

We do a lot of really fun things.

We do equipment demos, we do writing exercises, we have guest speakers

come in, which is really cool.

And probably my favorite part of Women in Cinema club is the mentorship program.

So basically, it's not required or anything, it's an optional thing you

can do, but if you want to, you can sign up for the mentorship program and they

pair you up with a female or non binary alumni who's graduated in the past.

And it can be really nice to just have someone to talk to and be like,

oh like, my project's not going well, or like, I'm really stuck on this

script, and like, they've been there, and they can like, relate to you,

and they can help you through it, but I really love Women's Cinema club.

It's a great way, like Kyle said, it's a great way to like, go out there and

make connections and get close to people you might not have time to, or may not

be in the same classes with, because I feel like in the major you very much

have your cohort people tend to move through the same level classes at the

same time, so I've really appreciated how it's allowed me to meet all different

types of people, and I have people I met who are on my thesis now because of the

relationships I've formed, so everyone should join Women in Cinema in my opinion.

Yeah.

And I can also say that the mentorship program is definitely very beneficial.

And our alumni have done some amazing things as I'm sure you can hear

on other episodes of this podcast.

I had a mentor one year who, she was the Location Manager for the

"Five Nights at Freddy's" movie.

I also had a mentor who's, did VFX on "Fallout" the new TV show for Amazon.

So there's some pretty amazing alumni from the school and people who are

more than willing and wanting to help students make it where they want to go.

And I'll even add on to that, I want to really emphasize this idea.

People love being a mentor.

They love the idea of being a mentor.

And if you give them that opportunity of saying, hey, I'm seeking a mentor and

you seem really cool and I would love to just have a couple chats with you.

90 percent of people are going to say yes.

Because, who doesn't like the idea of someone looking up to them and wanting

to hear your wisdom and your advice?

I will say that just because 90 percent of people will say yes doesn't mean

90 percent of people should say yes.

Some people just don't have the right capacity.

So you might have a bad mentor experience where you're like, I'm trying to

connect with this person and they're not actually giving me any time, and

they seem like a really scattered brain.

So it is like mindful of that process.

Absolutely.

And this industry, as you will hear so many times, is 100 percent built on

connections and like you said, people are more than willing to talk to you a

lot of the time I've reached out cold to people through the Writers Guild websites

and other websites, and they are more than willing to mentor you and talk to

you and just get to know you and help you as you move forward in your careers.

Highly recommend getting involved in mentorship.

So let's move on to Continuous Script Writing club then

which I am also involved in.

I got asked by one of my professors who is our faculty advisor.

And I love script writing, but I'm, I'm a little more introverted.

But I love script writing and I love talking about writing, and so I said yes.

Also, like Caitlyn said, I can't say no to people.

And so with Continuous, our idea is we just want to be in

a writer's room format almost.

We're all just sitting there, we all love writing, we all want to collaborate

and learn from each other and just try to make the best projects we can.

So we do table reads we do writing exercises together, all sorts of stuff.

We have guest speakers sometimes, too.

Actually in a couple weeks from when we're doing this podcast, we're

having a writer from L. A. come in.

His name's Alex Sherman, and he was on the show "Our Flag Means Death" on HBO.

We really try to connect everyone interested in writing

with that as much as possible.

And, Caitlyn, if there's anything else you want to that.

Can I tell the story as I remember it of how Continuous got started?

Cause I just find it like, very funny and like emblematic of how

a lot of clubs start on campus.

It was, oh, Women and Cinema had like a guest speaker who was there for a week.

And it was open to like, all students, not just women and non binary people.

And the guest speaker was talking about how like, you need to like, go out

there and make stuff and just go for it.

And this club is great.

Start more clubs.

And she starts listing off clubs, and I think she mentioned a writing club.

And it was , you and me and John, who's also on eboard right now, we're all

right next to each other, and you were, like, yeah, let's start a writing club.

And I'm, like, why not?

And John's I'll be on it.

And it just was, like, boom, it happened right then and there.

I think starting a club can be a lot scarier than some people think it

is, but it's really, like you just gotta give four people to say, yeah,

I'll show up once every other week.

So I really encourage people, get involved, go for eboard.

Depending on the club, it can really be, as involved or as uninvolved as you

want it to be, but it's a really great way to make connections and then leave

something that can help other people.

That's one thing I love about Continuous, is that we do a lot of table reads,

which allows people to grow their craft.

In like Fiction I and II, you only have so many opportunities for a table read

and it gets you new perspectives and especially like the younger students

who don't really get into script writing until the higher level classes.

It gives them a chance to get feedback and get creative.

And also we have some members at the club who are not film majors who always

bring an interesting new perspective.

So I really love Continuous.

It's a very interesting group.

We're weird people, but that's what makes life interesting.

That's what's interesting is I still follow the GVTV Instagram and then they

occasionally post and they're like, Hey, here's our eboard for this year.

And I was looking and the President of GVTV right now,

he's a Computer Science major.

And I'm like, Oh, that.

never had anyone who was a non film or at least like the multimedia

journalism pathway who was in the program, let alone leading the program.

And so it's so cool to know that oh, yeah, anyone can get together.

A lot of people end up really liking filmmaking and video

making, not just the film majors.

Finding community outside of that can be really rewarding too.

Also going off of that with what Caitlyn said about clubs and just doing whatever,

I do want to say that for me as a person, clubs were very daunting because it's a

group of people you've never met before.

You have a similar interest, but there's something scary

about that, at least for me.

And the one thing I've really learned and appreciated about clubs,

especially here is you can make them whatever you want them to be.

They don't have to be, your casual club format where someone stands in front and

is just lecturing you with a PowerPoint.

With Women in Cinema and Continuous, we've really tried to make it a

group thing where we all just sit down in a circle and just talk.

Why do you guys think it's beneficial to be involved in clubs?

What advice would you give to people interested in joining clubs

or nervous about joining them?

I would say like, just go for it.

Like, I knew someone freshman year who was like, I never signed up for clubs.

And I've heard so many people say that not going to clubs was their biggest regret.

Not doing it sooner.

And I'm so grateful that I did because it just gets you to know

people and gets you connections.

And especially like, coming in as a freshman, it can be really scary.

You don't know a lot of people.

But you're not going to start meeting people by sitting

in your dorm room all day.

So like, go out, make connections, learn new things.

And I just feel like it helps you grow so much as a person, just to put

yourself out there with this group of people and try to make something.

Yeah, listen, when I was doing my four years at film program at GVSU, like

there was a certain level of I want to do the things that excite me and are

passionate, and also I kind of want to like, not game the system, not to be

cynical about it, but I want to take as much of this opportunity as I can.

The four years, I'm spending a lot of money to be here.

I might as well do as much as I can to prepare myself for

what next phase of my life.

So I was a sophomore.

I was a first semester of my sophomore year and we had a theory

professor before Spencer Everhart.

Her name was Toni Perrine and I did moderately okay in her class writing

papers about American history with film and world history with film.

And she came up to me and she said, Hey, Kyle, so we have this thing

called Cinesthesia and it's basically a film journal and we basically, all

we do is we publish student essays that they write in class and we

publish them out for the world to see as an academic professional journal.

And I said, that's pretty cool.

You want me to be a part of it?

And she said, actually, everyone's graduating.

And so we need someone to be running the club.

And I was just a sophomore.

And I said, okay, what does that mean?

And she was like, you'll figure it out, but I think you do fine.

And so I was very fortunate that she came to me and she felt that

I was capable enough, but here's the thing, I didn't know what I was

doing and I didn't know what the Cinesthesia was and how to run it.

And so next semester, I was running the whole thing.

And part of it was because I was like interested in the challenge.

I thought that This would be fun.

Another part of me was just being like, I don't know, this is a thing

to put on a resume and or show that I'm capable of these things.

I ended up having a great time and it was cool to meet other people and I didn't

end up having to do really any writing.

I just had to run a website because the Cinesthesia is hosted on a website so I

had to learn a little bit of HTML and I watched some YouTube videos to do that.

What all of this is to say is that after I graduated, if you

go to Cinesthesia's site, you can see it has 250, 000 downloads.

That's a really impressive number of worldwide downloads.

When I was applying to a non profit part time internship, they were

saying we need someone who can write daily email newsletters.

Do you have any writing experience?

And I said I'm so glad you asked.

I was Editor In Chief of this whole site.

And I was reviewing.

In truth, I wasn't doing much writing.

I was just running a website.

And they said, oh that's great.

And then they were like we also need someone who can do a little

bit of HTML and web design.

And I said I'm so glad you asked.

I learned how to do it on this journal.

So you find the opportunities as long as you're just willing to raise your

hand and say, I don't know how to do that, but I'm more than happy to learn.

And everything can cascade down from that.

And you feel more confident in yourself, because, you figure out

things along the way, and you're like, oh, I guess I did that.

The imposter syndrome's kind of fading away, and I realize that there are

more things in this world that I can do, that I'm capable of doing,

and that I deserve to be able to do.

Yeah, it really doesn't take much to join eboard, which is not to say like,

just sign up and like, not be ready for the commitment, cause it is a

commitment, And Women in Cinema club, like my first semester, the Treasurer

graduated and they needed a new person.

And I'm, like, why not?

And then they're like, you're hired.

And I'm like, I have no clue what a Treasurer does, but

I'm going to figure it out.

And that's the beauty of these clubs.

It's like a much lower pressure situation than when you're out

in the real world in your career.

So just go make mistakes, try things.

And even if you don't succeed, you learn.

This is the time to take risks.

Alright, so let's talk about on campus employment.

This is fun because I get to chat with C. K. and Caitlyn, both of

whom have been employed and are employed at our Bridge Studio.

And me and a colleague, Noah Campbell, also a film and video alumni.

Oversee it and we are, the Supervisors, the Managers.

And every year we have about nine film majors who we are able

to have part time who come in.

And it's a really wonderful experience.

I mean, Caitlyn CK, did you have a good time?

Are you having a good time?

Yeah, I really enjoyed my time at The Bridge.

I worked there for about a year and a half.

And that was like my first real film job in college, and I really appreciated,

all the technical stuff I learned.

I learned how to use a light board, I became very Premiere Pro and After

Effects savvy, and that has served me very well in like, my 400 300 level

classes to be able to edit quickly.

And also just learning how to work with clients, cause, Professors come

in and they don't always know what you want and you have to learn how to

kind of walk them through the process.

I really appreciate everything The Bridge taught me about client

work and just the workflow of a professional job in this industry.

And Caitlyn, I'm sure you can agree, 99 percent of the professors we have as

clients, they're wonderful, they're great.

Sometimes, though, a professor can be a little mean.

And that can be in and of itself its own rewarding experience because

you're like, Oh this is client work.

Sometimes you're like hired to do something and then the person

who's asking you to do it,

maybe he isn't treating you with the most amount of respect, and it's figuring

out that balance of of like, I still respect myself, and I need to make sure

this relationship is maintaining that, but also you're getting that little

bit of exposure of someone who might be difficult to work with, which can be

rewarding.

I had one professor once who came in and was like, alrighty I'll sit and

watch you edit, and I'm sitting here no, you're not gonna look over my shoulder

for two hours, but you can't say that, so I was like, Oh you can if you want,

but I want to be respectful of your time, so what if I just walk you through the

process and you leave me some notes?

And she was like, oh, okay, that's perfect.

I definitely learned a lot about how to professionally and respectfully

work through tricky situations.

Yeah, I've only been working there a couple months.

I started at the August of my senior year.

So I don't know that I've done a ton, but it's definitely an experience

to client work and also like a customer service thing that I've

never really experienced before.

I've been working in the equipment room since my freshman year.

And so it was a new thing to, yeah.

Not just be like, all right, here's your equipment.

Bye.

Like I actually have to take feedback and try to make things the way

they want them and also something that's quality and they can use.

So that's been super cool.

And also just becoming a better editor.

You just get to learn and Google and try things you've never tried before.

So it's definitely a cool experience.

And which, it's interesting for the two of you now working in this

new kind of version of The Bridge.

When I was a student worker, I also worked at The Bridge.

We used to be called the Digital Studio back then, and I will tell

you, I worked, 15, 17 hours a week for three semesters straight.

And I want to say I probably worked on two video projects that entire time.

We just didn't really have the client base yet.

We were still trying to figure out what we were and no

one really knew who we were.

So I spent most of that time doing homework and watching Netflix.

And it's interesting now that we're at a point where we're all like, we're

trying to be intentional about saying we wanna give as many projects as possible

to the students who come in here.

We want them to feel like they're getting value while also not adding on

that huge labor and load and mental stress of being like, I have 10

things I need to do as a student and also deal with my own mental health.

And so trying to find that balance between it being a rewarding experience

and being a challenging experience.

The biggest regret that I have going through my undergrad experience

is that I applied a lot of times.

And I like to think that I was like, I was President of GVTV and I was

Editor In Chief of Cinesthesia.. I'm like, I'm doing pretty good.

I was rejected every time from Promotions Office.

And it hit like a gut punch every time I even applied my senior year.

They were like, we only have one opening this year and it's just for makeup.

And I said, I'll figure it out.

I'll learn.

And they're like, have you ever done makeup before?

And I said, No, and they're like, then we're not hiring you, Kyle.

But I knew I wanted to work there for a number of reasons.

One, I knew that, Bobby Nielsen, who currently runs it, also a GVSU

film and video alumni, really has a high standard of quality, really

is making high quality content.

What the Promotions Office is, is to my understanding is that if you're maybe

working at the university probably as a staff member, faculty or whatever, you

might say Oh, we need a video to promote an event or to educate about an event.

We need something high quality.

They'll go and they'll hire the Promotions Office to say, we need a high quality

video about like Prez Ball that's coming up and we need a really cool commercial.

That's going to be multi hundreds of thousands of dollars budget type dealio.

And that is one of the best ways on campus to be like,

I am part of a film crew.

I am part of an understanding of the professional needs.

And I never really got to do that.

GVTV got me a little close.

When I was working at Digital Studio Bridge, not really.

And I was always looking for that opportunity on campus to be like, no, we

are professionally making high quality stuff that then goes into your demo reel

that then you can show other people like this is the cool stuff I've worked on.

And so that is a really valuable experience.

I know that University Communications is a similar deal.

I think they have a lot less open slots available.

That's another team that you can like, be always on the lookout

for, see if they're hiring.

WGVU is a television station that's, an extension of GVSU, but not fully

there's nothing academic about it.

They're not doing classes or anything.

They're entirely just oh, we just do local broadcast television.

Sometimes they hire student workers there and that's another great opportunity.

You're really just looking for any chance and opportunity to get your

foot in the door to say someone has in the past hired me and paid

me to do some type of media work.

And then that way, when you get out of there to be like, Hey, don't

worry I'm now a graduated student.

I'm no longer a student.

I'm now a professional in this world.

Yes.

Other people have trusted me and have hired me and paid me to do this work.

And that's why you should as well.

So I've been working at WGVU for a little over a year now.

For those of you who don't know, WGVU is the local PBS station

that's partnered with Grand Valley.

It's in the downtown Pew Campus.

And I really have loved my time there.

It's really something new every day you come in.

Some days you come in and you edit little promo videos.

Other days you do an in studio shoot where you have fancy headsets and like, the

cameras up and you're, like, being told to give signals to the people on air.

And then other times we like, go out and do shoots in the community and we might

be filming an elementary school releasing salmon for like, an educational video.

Or another day we might be going to a goat farm.

Or another day we might be, interviewing an artist about their

sculptures and stuff like that.

So I really appreciate how it's taken me out into the community, I've learned

about so many places in Grand Rapids that I wouldn't have known before,

and actually one of those places a short film I'm working on might be

using as a location now, because I just saw it through that experience.

And you learn a lot, like I said, we do a lot of promotional video editing, cause

we record the seasons of our shows for PBS, and then we have to promote them

on social media learning how to do an overarching, cause in the past, like at

The Bridge, I had done maybe promotional stuff for one specific event, but now

it's like you have a whole season of like a show and you have to make the

promotions consistent through that, so I learned a lot through my time there.

You worked at The Bridge and then you got hired to work at WGVU.

We were very sad to see you go, but probably to a certain degree, when

you were applying to WGVU, you were like, Oh yeah, I have experience.

I've been also working at this other institution here.

And then once you start working WGVU, you're like, Oh,

they have a bit more money.

They're making higher quality stuff.

My demo reel is looking nicer.

So it was like that, not a lateral move.

You were moving up in your professional capabilities.

Yeah, it's always every opportunity you have on campus, whether that's a club

or a job, teaches you something which then helps you get the next thing.

And that is one thing they talked to me about.

It was actually, it's a funny story how I had my interview there.

They told me to come in for this interview and I got there.

And Skye, who's our manager, was like, hey I have a taping going on

right now, so I'm gonna interview you while the taping's going on.

He was like, ready camera two, so tell me a little bit about

your like video experience.

Alrighty, move the camera a little bit to the left.

Ready camera four, so like, how's your day been?

And that's just pretty emblematic of how shoots can go there but yeah they asked

me about my previous experience and The Bridge was definitely like the fact that

I had been working on stuff consistently.

This is why you got to go out and do that stuff because even if you think oh

I'm just making silly videos at a club or whatever or just editing at this job

it does help especially just seeing that like you have the initiative to go out

and do things so you really have to put yourself out there because just taking

that step will get you to the next step.

Yeah, and I will say I had a little bit of a different, I got into The Bridge

a little bit later in my years here at GVSU but I started in the equipment

room, so Production Support Resources.

I started my second semester here and I just wanted a film job because I

knew I wanted to do something related to what I was studying, something

that would give me a fresh start.

And so I just applied and they interviewed me and I had no experience.

I was a little bit afraid of cameras because I didn't want to break something.

But I I told them I wanted to learn and I wanted to get better and

just do whatever I needed to do.

And so they hired me and I've been working there for a while now.

I'm their Film and Video Lead too now.

I work a lot with the professors and I meet lots of students and stuff.

So it even just starting with that, just getting to know your faculty and

your, the fellow students and just, take little steps, do what you need

to do to get where you need to be.

We're taking a short break to tell you about the Dirk Koning

Memorial Film and Video scholarship.

Here's Gretchen Vinnedge remembering Dirk Koning.

The Koning Scholarship enables students to get that kind of an education, to be

a good filmmaker, to be able to express their voice and to continue Dirk's dream.

For more information, and to donate to the scholarship, visit

the link in the description.

Now, back to the show.

So Kyle, you were a TA when you were here at GVSU.

Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, Suzanne just tapped me on the shoulder Suzanne Zack who

I was in one of her courses.

I don't actually remember which one, but I know that at one point,

I've been taking the initiative.

I've been doing a lot around the classes and all of the extracurricular.

And she said, Hey I'm looking for a T. A. It's a paid gig.

It's only four hours a week, you're just going to come in and be there.

I didn't really know what I was doing, but I had been through Media I so I guess I

knew a little bit more than the students who were currently taking Media I.

And it's just another opportunity for a number of reasons.

One, you get to have your experiences of just being in front of people

and having some position of Oh, I guess I do have some wisdom to

impart and feeling like that sense of responsibility that comes with it.

Also, it can be really nice in that same way of the mentor thing, like

you're meeting usually students who are a little bit younger than you.

So that's really nice to make connections with people who are a little bit younger.

Maybe they're going to be your PAs next year when you need some Hey,

I'm making a thing and we need someone who's looking for experience.

And then they're like a first year freshmen.

They're like, I have never been on a set before.

So this is the perfect opportunity.

And you get, of course, closer and connections to the faculty, to the

professors, to the instructors, where you're building those connections,

which can be very valuable.

Suzanne gave me endless opportunities in my entire four years, and she

gave me a couple recommendations to the Promotions Office.

Not that they helped, and that's okay, they didn't, but it was nice to have

someone in my corner who told me, hey Kyle, did you know like there, this

is opening, you should go for it, and I'll put in a good word for you.

It's nice to have, it feels like someone at the university, Someone who's been

here for a while, any of the instructors, any of the professors who you're

like, yeah, I'm building these kind of relationships with that are gonna help me,

especially as I need to start connecting with alumni and figuring out what the

heck I'm gonna do after I graduate.

Being a TA was really rewarding and I just stood there and I just

watched as Suzanne did her magic.

But if you ever have that opportunity or if you wanna just go up to

someone and just say Hey professor, I really think you've been great.

Let me know if there's ever an opening for a TA 'cause I would love to do it.

It's a really rewarding experience.

Yeah, I will also add on to that.

I'll say to everyone, If you don't want to get involved with stuff, don't

talk to Suzanne Zack, because every, I swear, half the time, and I say

this lovingly, half the time I talk to her I leave, and I'm like, how did

I just volunteer to do five things?

that's how it goes

But, that is the magic of Suzanne.

So I would also say, if you want to get involved on campus work, especially and

specifically like, go talk to Suzanne.

She is the person for that.

She is all knowing, and she knows everyone, so she

can find something for you.

And that's actually how I found out about WGVU, is I went to Suzanne, I was

like, hey, I think I'm ready for the next step in my filmmaking career, I don't

have a car, what are some places I can get to that are nearby, and she's like,

I think this place is perfect for you, I'm gonna write you an email right now

to this person, and I'm like, oh, okay.

And then I left and speed redid my resume, so talk to Suzanne.

Kyle, I also had a very similar experience of how I became

Suzanne's TA the last few years.

I visited her during office hours when I was in Media 1, and then I just happened

to end up in her office one day asking about internships, and she was just

like, you want to be my TA next year?

And I was like, okay.

And yeah, you definitely just, you learn a lot just trying to adapt your

plans to help different students at different levels and just meeting people

where they're at and also just watching Suzanne work with people and, helping

you build your leadership skills.

I was terrible at demoing equipment in Premiere when I first started.

And I've definitely like her cheerleading in the background is

definitely helped me become more confident in my skills at this point.

So yeah, definitely talk to Suzanne because she will get you all sorts of

things and she'll be your cheerleader.

But also you may end up doing a bunch of extra things because

it's so hard to say no to her.

So kind of The last thing i'm going to talk about , is doing projects outside

of the classroom, independent projects.

I know for myself, my, end of my freshman year, I knew I wanted to be making things.

I wasn't in the upper level fiction classes or anything like that.

And I didn't really know anybody, but I wanted to work with people.

And I took some of my friends that I had met at PSR, and I was like,

Hey, you guys want to make a movie?

And so we proceeded to create kind of our own production

company called Snek Studios.

And then we ended up making a 13 minute short film for

200 dollars within 6 months.

And since then we've tried to produce a short film every summer, or every fall.

And that has really just, like Kyle said about GVTV, the more you practice

and just make bad movies, the more you learn and the quicker you can

get into those good quality things.

I don't know if you guys have anything you would like to add to that.

I think that's so awesome that you did that, and I wish I had done that.

mean, I've loved my time at GV, I don't have many regrets, but I think my only

one is Media 1 my first semester I was just really bored because I had taken a

couple video classes in high school, I felt like I already knew this, and I was

sitting here should I even be in this major if this is all we're gonna be doing

I already know this isn't engaging to me, And I wish, like I said, instead of just

sitting in my own frustration and being like, upset about projects, I wish I had

gone out and found people and done stuff.

And I've heard that from a lot of other people too, is I think people

are scared at first when they first join the major, because they don't know

people, but put yourself out there say you want to make a thing, and you'd

be surprised how many people will be excited and willing to help you.

My four years that I spent, it became a reoccurring joke that I realized

had been happening for many years.

Which is that eventually at some point, group of people come together, they

form a production company and then they say what in my experience has been the

death keel, which is, and we're going to make a feature film this summer.

Every year, every time.

They're like, we're going to make a feature.

We're going to make a feature.

We're going to make a feature.

We sometimes have people in GVTV, like we're interested in making a feature.

And I would always try and just shake them by the head and say, make a short, because

the reason for that, the philosophy for that, it's not just like it's too big

for you or anything like that, what it is that getting into a feature is such an

intimidating, long immense process, one that can be so demoralizing as you go on,

because let's face it, if you don't have a lot of experience, your first feature

is probably going to be pretty bad.

And that's okay.

That's the point of it, right?

The point is to get from the beginning, the middle, and the end, and then

have a moment of reflection of like, that was that whole process.

Let's do it again, and let's do it a little bit better.

And the problem with making a feature is that you just extended that process

so much longer to where you don't have that phase of just reflection.

Like you would if it was a 13 minute short, where you really go all out, and

you really put it all out there, and you said, that was our 13 minutes, and

sometimes it's amazing, and sometimes it's terrible, but regardless, whew,

afterwards you're like, okay, great.

Time to do that again from the beginning where we now all have a

moment to breathe and then we feel that energy and motivation starting

to build up again as we're like we're excited for the next thing.

As much as possible keep it short, keep it simple, CK is that something that

you're glad you did like that 13 minutes?

Oh, a hundred percent.

I think if we had tried to go any longer, like that didn't even cross

my mind, but if it had, I don't think it would have been as, good

as a learning experience as it was.

Yeah, it was.

It was an interesting film.

I wrote it, and directed it, and produced it, and then I was just like,

Alright, friends, let's make this.

And it's pretty cheesy.

I remember showing it to my parents and being like, It's okay.

And my mom just pointed out in this really intense scene that there was just

this blow up ghost in the background, just completely distracting her.

So that's why production design is important.

But totally.

Start small, Take risks, do what you gotta do, but yeah, don't go big.

Yeah, I want to add on to what Kyle said.

Probably the best piece of advice I ever got from a professor here at GV was it is

not a healthier, productive mindset to see like every single project I do has to be

my magnum opus, has to be this big, giant, biggest movie to ever be, 10, 000 extras,

everything's on fire, it's underwater.

He said instead the way you should look at it is with every project

you do, what do you want to work on?

Is it like, oh, for this one I want to work on doing more interesting camera

angles, for this one I want to work on my writing, this one I want to work

on how I direct actors, and that really just completely changed how I approach

filmmaking, it took so much pressure off of me, of, this is this one thing

I want to work on for this film, and maybe you don't love every part of the

film, but just keep track of, did I do better on this one thing, and if not, how

can I do better on that in the future, and I think, that's a much better thing

to focus on than be trying to make your first feature while in college.

And the through line of what you're describing, which is

that you're every time you like, I want to try something new.

I want to challenge myself a little bit more.

But the constant that needs to be, in my opinion, underlining the whole

experience is that you want to make sure if you're the Producer, if you're

the Director, if you have a leadership position on this project that you are

saying, I want to get this done, you want at the end of it, all of the people you

collaborated with to feel like, Hey, like, feel good about the experience.

It, filmmaking is hard.

It is arduous.

It is scary.

It is tiring.

It is long.

And that is to a certain extent what kind of scared me away

from the full set of production.

And now I veered off into, educational video because it felt a lot more within

my wheelhouse, but they can be long days.

They can be stressful days, and if at the end of your project, everyone hates

each other, and is mad at each other, and annoyed, and especially if the film

did not come out the way you wanted it to that can be a lot of burned bridges.

And to a certain extent, if you're going through these big magnum opus projects,

that you're not really like, challenging yourselves in the small ways, everyone

can just be really disappointed by the end, and that's just not a really, you

want to set yourself up we were talking about how I think failure being so

important, because then you learn from it.

But the success, the only thing that you need to succeed is that everyone is at

least a little bit like, that was a cool thing we did, or I learned something, or

I got to know people, or I got fed some semi nice lunch that someone made me,

and I felt appreciated in that process.

That is the most important thing, I think, when you're trying to network and

collaborate with your other students.

Absolutely, and when you're making those projects too, it just, the days

can get long and you can get frustrated and things will go wrong and the, the

easiest thing to just make it fun for yourself is make sure that you're doing

it with people that you care about and you have fun with and just trying to

keep the environment fun and recognizing that you're learning and that's okay.

So do you guys have any advice for current students or students

who are joining the program?

That I think I've said this before, but just to recap, and at the risk of sounding

like a bit dramatic you only live once I can't say you're only in college once,

because that's not necessarily true in this day and age, but put yourself out

there, go to stuff for example, I went to my first Cinespace this year, and I

never went my freshman or sophomore year, and I wish I had, but I was always like,

oh, I'm tired, or it's too far, but it was really fun to go to, so Just go.

Like, Don't burn yourself out, but Like, at least go once, and like,

like, when I was a freshman, my rule to myself was like, hey, you have to

go to, all the orientation events, and you gotta stay for one hour.

If you don't like it, then you can leave.

So I would tell people go to all the stuff you're interested in, and

if you don't like it, don't stay.

But at least try.

At least put yourself out there, and you never know what opportunities

and what people you're gonna meet.

Yeah, I'll say my finale is something that I've been building to if, if I

were to construct like a perfect four year experience as a film major, and

ultimately like to follow this exact plan would be far too unrealistic

and you'd only setting yourself up for disappointment, Idealistically,

you'd come in as a freshman, you'd see something like GVTV or the Script

Writing club, I just want experience.

I want to meet people, I want to practice, I want to make stuff,

and you do that your freshman year.

And then your sophomore year is okay, I kind of want to like get better experience

doing something a bit more advanced.

Maybe I'll go work for The Bridge, which, famously like, we like to hire freshmen

and sophomore, people who want to get their feet wet then I could do maybe

a year of that, get some experience, and the next step after that would be,

oh, hey, I want to do maybe a little level up, maybe the Promo Office, maybe

Caitlyn, you went to WGVU, maybe you find an internship, something really cool.

That last step is really where it's okay what do I do next?

And that's finding other professional Grand Rapids resources production

companies to learn from them.

Whether you get hired from them or receive an unpaid internship the important

thing is to understand Grand Valley is primarily based in West Michigan.

We're based in Allendale and Grand Rapids and these other kind of sister cities.

And it's important to know what's out there.

But I'm going to read off, and if you have a pen and paper, if

you're listening to this, look up the words, Ideology Grand Rapids.

That's a production company that's based in Ada.

They do really great stuff.

They have a pickleball court in their production studio.

It's really annoying.

They have that golden hour thing that the Mandalorian has.

It's insane.

Look up Taproot Productions.

Look up Ingalls Production, look up Salt Productions, look up Gorilla, look up

Drop, Voyage Lowing, Visionary, Motivity, these are places, this list might be a

year old, so I don't know if any of them have gone out of business, I know at

one point it had the production company called Black Pigeon on there I'm seeing

a message as well from Suzanne that says Braincell, look up Braincell, There's a

place called Black Pigeon that famously hired, I think, 30 unpaid interns at once,

who all just stood around and did nothing.

Sometimes these might be negative experiences they went under.

But you need to know what is in the area, what professional work is being done.

Most of this is commercial, medium sized scales.

They're not doing a whole lot of features unless it's Some, sometimes they may

be come to visit, but knowing what they are, visiting them, seeing if there

are any alumni, they're reaching out and saying, Hey, can I take a tour?

Can I just see the place?

Can I learn from you?

Those are really great ways to get your foot in the door,

to get your name out there.

And especially if you want to graduate and if you want to stay in West Michigan,

you're going to want to know ahead of time, Hey, these are the places to go to.

And you want to make sure that they, at least a little bit know your name.

And if you have all that, experience from your classwork, from your extracurricular,

from your student employment.

You're going to be setting yourself up for success in what is famously a very

competitive industry that we all got into.

And that's really scary getting into, you know, my brother and my

sister both were chemical engineers.

They're fine.

They have houses, they have dogs, they're doing great but because I

really wanted to make those four years count and get as much skills as

possible and get as many connections as possible, I had a relatively like

privileged and seamless transition.

I'm really grateful for that.

And if you want to have a similar experience, it is going to be a

lot of okay, then what do I do with these four years or more or less,

however long you have to really make them special and really transition

into that next phase of your life.

And that a really good way to get into that is a lot of times Suzanne will

very much be involved in this, but they will do like Field Trip Fridays

where they'll go visit local companies.

There's Alumni Present.

We'll have alumni talk about different things.

They had an AD one and a prop making one this past semester.

And also career exploration trips they went to LA last year and

they're going to Chicago this year.

So they're really getting you these opportunities are really everywhere.

You just have to look for them and take advantage of them.

I think if there's one piece of advice I would say to anyone is

something I've always lived by of you just need like 15 seconds of

insane bravery and just say yes.

And just try it, and whatever happens.

You'll learn something, you'll make a mistake, maybe you'll

get something good out of it.

But just go for it.

Thank you guys so much for talking with me.

This has been very fun.

Oh my gosh, it was a pleasure.

Happy to be here.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.

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