1 00:00:03,090 --> 00:00:06,149 INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC learning Podcast, where we 2 00:00:06,150 --> 00:00:08,999 INTRO: share learning and expertise in child protection 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,209 INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation. 4 00:00:12,210 --> 00:00:15,329 INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and 5 00:00:15,330 --> 00:00:18,449 INTRO: share good practice on how we can all work together 6 00:00:18,450 --> 00:00:21,209 INTRO: to keep babies, children and young people safe. 7 00:00:24,270 --> 00:00:27,149 PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast. 8 00:00:27,150 --> 00:00:29,759 PRODUCER: The online world is constantly changing and young 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,829 PRODUCER: people are often at the cutting edge of these 10 00:00:31,830 --> 00:00:33,119 PRODUCER: changes. 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,189 PRODUCER: They're often more informed about online trends 12 00:00:35,190 --> 00:00:37,589 PRODUCER: than adults, and are equipped with unique 13 00:00:37,590 --> 00:00:39,629 PRODUCER: knowledge and understanding of what they need to 14 00:00:39,630 --> 00:00:42,509 PRODUCER: know and do to stay safe online. 15 00:00:42,510 --> 00:00:44,429 PRODUCER: It is important to listen to them and try and 16 00:00:44,430 --> 00:00:46,709 PRODUCER: incorporate their voice into your online safety 17 00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:49,859 PRODUCER: work. In this podcast episode, recorded in 18 00:00:49,860 --> 00:00:53,399 PRODUCER: January 2025, we'll be doing just that. 19 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,409 PRODUCER: You'll hear from two members of the Voice of 20 00:00:55,410 --> 00:00:58,539 PRODUCER: Online Youth, a group of young people aged 13 21 00:00:58,540 --> 00:01:01,669 PRODUCER: to 17 who help advise the NSPCC 22 00:01:01,670 --> 00:01:04,639 PRODUCER: and the wider online safety sector on how to help 23 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,359 PRODUCER: children have safe and happy experiences online. 24 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,269 PRODUCER: Will and Zara will provide their own insights and 25 00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:13,849 PRODUCER: experiences on what online life is like from 26 00:01:13,850 --> 00:01:16,399 PRODUCER: their perspective, including what they get up to 27 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,519 PRODUCER: online; what steps they take to stay safe; 28 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,489 PRODUCER: what worries them about being online; and what 29 00:01:22,490 --> 00:01:24,469 PRODUCER: they'd like to learn more about when it comes to 30 00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:25,819 PRODUCER: online safety. 31 00:01:25,820 --> 00:01:28,189 PRODUCER: I'll hand over now to Will and Zara to introduce 32 00:01:28,190 --> 00:01:29,389 PRODUCER: themselves. 33 00:01:29,390 --> 00:01:31,909 WILL: Hi, my name is Will and I guess I joined the Voice of 34 00:01:31,910 --> 00:01:35,239 WILL: Online Youth because I really think it's 35 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,519 WILL: great to give young people a voice when often in this 36 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,069 WILL: space they're overlooked, even though online safety 37 00:01:40,070 --> 00:01:41,899 WILL: is centred around young people because they're the 38 00:01:41,900 --> 00:01:43,459 WILL: ones often online. 39 00:01:43,460 --> 00:01:45,349 WILL: I really enjoy public speaking, so I thought this 40 00:01:45,350 --> 00:01:48,379 WILL: would be a great opportunity to give a voice to young 41 00:01:48,380 --> 00:01:50,389 WILL: people when it comes to online safety. 42 00:01:50,390 --> 00:01:52,849 ZARA: Hi, my name is Zara and I joined the Voice of Online 43 00:01:52,850 --> 00:01:55,129 ZARA: Youth because I want to make the internet a safer and 44 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:57,079 ZARA: more positive place for people my age. 45 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,319 ZARA: A lot of the decisions about online platforms are 46 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,959 ZARA: made by adults who don't fully understand what we go 47 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,629 ZARA: through or what matters to us, and I want to make 48 00:02:04,630 --> 00:02:06,339 ZARA: sure our voices are heard. 49 00:02:06,340 --> 00:02:08,288 PRODUCER: Thank you both so much for joining us on the 50 00:02:08,289 --> 00:02:11,289 PRODUCER: podcast. In this podcast, we want to try and 51 00:02:11,290 --> 00:02:14,289 PRODUCER: provide an understanding of what online life is 52 00:02:14,290 --> 00:02:16,059 PRODUCER: like for young people. 53 00:02:16,060 --> 00:02:19,479 PRODUCER: So my first question: what sorts of activities 54 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,339 PRODUCER: do you get up to online? 55 00:02:21,340 --> 00:02:24,489 WILL: So online nowadays is almost everything 56 00:02:24,490 --> 00:02:27,459 WILL: that I do because it's not 57 00:02:27,460 --> 00:02:30,549 WILL: just playing video games and talking with friends 58 00:02:30,550 --> 00:02:33,069 WILL: and things online. It's also that school's involved 59 00:02:33,070 --> 00:02:35,319 WILL: online. I look at all my homework online and I do 60 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:36,699 WILL: quizzes online. 61 00:02:36,700 --> 00:02:39,549 WILL: There's quite a lot online that I feel like people 62 00:02:39,550 --> 00:02:41,769 WILL: wouldn't really notice is there. 63 00:02:41,770 --> 00:02:44,679 WILL: It's just sort of passively online and it's there. 64 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,279 ZARA: I spend a lot of time online doing a mix of things. 65 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,799 ZARA: Social media is probably the main one. 66 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,379 ZARA: I keep in touch with friends or just see what's 67 00:02:53,380 --> 00:02:57,369 ZARA: trending. I also stream music or watch shows, 68 00:02:57,370 --> 00:03:00,999 ZARA: but I feel like when adults think of online... 69 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,969 ZARA: Well, uses for the internet, they don't have 70 00:03:03,970 --> 00:03:06,039 ZARA: a nuanced view. They think it's just for 71 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,279 ZARA: entertainment. But, similar to what Will said, 72 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,609 ZARA: we have a lot of our school work on there or anything 73 00:03:12,610 --> 00:03:16,179 ZARA: educational. It's not just one singular thing. 74 00:03:16,180 --> 00:03:19,059 WILL: It's not like being online is a necessity. 75 00:03:19,060 --> 00:03:21,219 WILL: It's just really, really useful. 76 00:03:21,220 --> 00:03:24,039 WILL: And it's a tool that a lot of people can use and get 77 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,719 WILL: a lot of use out of. 78 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,809 WILL: Sure, I could just dial up my friends on the home 79 00:03:28,810 --> 00:03:31,329 WILL: phone, but it's a lot easier to just Facetime them 80 00:03:31,330 --> 00:03:32,829 WILL: and then be able to see them as well. 81 00:03:32,830 --> 00:03:34,299 WILL: And it's more convenient. 82 00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:37,629 PRODUCER: What's the one thing that you wouldn't be able to 83 00:03:37,630 --> 00:03:40,269 PRODUCER: do without when it comes to being online? 84 00:03:40,270 --> 00:03:43,269 ZARA: I feel like for me, schoolwork is 85 00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:46,539 ZARA: one of the big ones because, frankly, I don't 86 00:03:46,540 --> 00:03:49,539 ZARA: see anyone going to the library 87 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:51,849 ZARA: and getting textbooks; most of them are online for 88 00:03:51,850 --> 00:03:55,119 ZARA: me. And if I couldn't do that, I'd have to stay 89 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,479 ZARA: after school and then it would make my journey longer 90 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,639 ZARA: and it would affect other things in my life. 91 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,279 ZARA: And also, just talking to friends. 92 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,799 ZARA: Some of us live really far away, so we can't really 93 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,099 ZARA: meet person to person, and it's just, 94 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:10,168 ZARA: all in all, more convenient. 95 00:04:10,169 --> 00:04:13,289 WILL: I totally agree with Zara that schoolwork is really 96 00:04:13,290 --> 00:04:15,389 WILL: useful to have online, but I'd say if there's one 97 00:04:15,390 --> 00:04:17,489 WILL: thing that would have to, you know, take the top, it 98 00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:20,009 WILL: would probably just be as simple as talking to your 99 00:04:20,010 --> 00:04:21,509 WILL: friends online. 100 00:04:21,510 --> 00:04:23,999 WILL: I think it's really overlooked that you can just send 101 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,339 WILL: people messages and they'll get back to you really 102 00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:29,489 WILL: quickly. Whereas, you know, before the internet 103 00:04:29,490 --> 00:04:31,709 WILL: was really a thing, that just couldn't happen. 104 00:04:31,710 --> 00:04:34,049 PRODUCER: So it's clear that being able to go online is 105 00:04:34,050 --> 00:04:35,849 PRODUCER: important to both of you. 106 00:04:35,850 --> 00:04:38,129 PRODUCER: My next question is more to do with online 107 00:04:38,130 --> 00:04:40,859 PRODUCER: safety. What makes you feel safe and comfortable 108 00:04:40,860 --> 00:04:42,059 PRODUCER: online? 109 00:04:42,060 --> 00:04:44,489 ZARA: I feel comfortable online when I know the platform 110 00:04:44,490 --> 00:04:45,989 ZARA: I'm using really well. 111 00:04:45,990 --> 00:04:47,510 ZARA: Because if I don't, I feel 112 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,329 ZARA: if I see something bad, how am I going to report it? 113 00:04:51,330 --> 00:04:53,839 ZARA: Or how am I going to tell someone? 114 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,839 ZARA: Familiarity. It makes it easier to navigate and I 115 00:04:56,840 --> 00:04:59,899 ZARA: know how to handle settings like privacy controls or 116 00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:02,899 ZARA: reporting tools. It's also reassuring when I'm 117 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:06,679 ZARA: part of communities that are really well moderated 118 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,229 ZARA: and there's no toxic behaviour or, well, it's not 119 00:05:09,230 --> 00:05:10,879 ZARA: known for toxic behaviour. 120 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,909 ZARA: I generally feel safest when I'm in control 121 00:05:13,910 --> 00:05:16,939 ZARA: of what I see or what I share or what 122 00:05:16,940 --> 00:05:18,889 ZARA: people say to me. 123 00:05:18,890 --> 00:05:21,169 WILL: Zara's pretty much hit the nail on the pin there— on 124 00:05:21,170 --> 00:05:24,109 WILL: the pin? On the head. But yeah, I feel like there's 125 00:05:24,110 --> 00:05:27,049 WILL: not too many times where I'm feeling uncomfortable 126 00:05:27,050 --> 00:05:29,839 WILL: online now that I'm just familiar with everything 127 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:32,989 WILL: that I see. Yeah, it's just so normalised 128 00:05:32,990 --> 00:05:35,509 WILL: that, because I'm in control of pretty much 129 00:05:35,510 --> 00:05:38,509 WILL: everything that I see, there's nothing terrible that 130 00:05:38,510 --> 00:05:40,639 WILL: makes me feel really uncomfortable. 131 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,779 PRODUCER: I wanted to pick up on Zara's point about 132 00:05:42,780 --> 00:05:45,109 PRODUCER: moderation and privacy settings. 133 00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:47,929 PRODUCER: Do you both take control of your own privacy 134 00:05:47,930 --> 00:05:50,089 PRODUCER: settings, or is this something that maybe your 135 00:05:50,090 --> 00:05:51,829 PRODUCER: parents were involved in? 136 00:05:51,830 --> 00:05:53,559 PRODUCER: Or maybe a bit of both? 137 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,709 ZARA: I feel like when I was younger, my mum would always 138 00:05:56,710 --> 00:05:59,229 ZARA: make an account for me and she just put me on child's 139 00:05:59,230 --> 00:06:01,329 ZARA: settings and then she'd think I'd be safe. 140 00:06:01,330 --> 00:06:04,659 ZARA: Now I just... More than that I just alter 141 00:06:04,660 --> 00:06:07,089 ZARA: my 'For You' page more on things I don't want to see, 142 00:06:07,090 --> 00:06:10,149 ZARA: rather than just outright block everything 143 00:06:10,150 --> 00:06:12,399 ZARA: that's not appropriate, because then I can just 144 00:06:13,450 --> 00:06:16,629 ZARA: feel safe and I can still find stuff that I like 145 00:06:16,630 --> 00:06:18,369 ZARA: and be entertained by. 146 00:06:18,370 --> 00:06:20,289 PRODUCER: And just quickly, when you say the 'For You' 147 00:06:20,290 --> 00:06:22,329 PRODUCER: page, what app are you talking about here? 148 00:06:22,330 --> 00:06:23,581 PRODUCER: Is it Instagram? TikTok? 149 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:28,509 ZARA: I still use TikTok and it's got 150 00:06:28,510 --> 00:06:30,549 ZARA: a button where you can say, "I'm not interested in 151 00:06:30,550 --> 00:06:33,639 ZARA: this". And whenever I get a new app like 152 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,429 ZARA: Instagram — I got Instagram a few days ago and the 153 00:06:36,430 --> 00:06:39,309 ZARA: whole day I just spent sorting it out, going through 154 00:06:39,310 --> 00:06:41,839 ZARA: a bunch of videos, saying what I like and don't like. 155 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:45,009 ZARA: So then the next day, it's kind of used to content 156 00:06:45,010 --> 00:06:48,099 ZARA: that I enjoy, and I think that's really important 157 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:50,979 ZARA: because otherwise, you know, algorithms won't work or 158 00:06:50,980 --> 00:06:52,029 ZARA: anything. 159 00:06:52,030 --> 00:06:53,439 PRODUCER: I'm really struck by what you say Zara about, 160 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,599 PRODUCER: kind of, manipulating the algorithm so that 161 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,299 PRODUCER: you're getting the content that you want to see. 162 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:01,569 PRODUCER: When it comes to things like moderation, 163 00:07:01,570 --> 00:07:04,389 PRODUCER: are you approaching it from a "I know what I want 164 00:07:04,390 --> 00:07:07,689 PRODUCER: to see" kind of way? Or is it more of a "I 165 00:07:07,690 --> 00:07:09,669 PRODUCER: know I don't want to see" kind of way? 166 00:07:09,670 --> 00:07:12,579 PRODUCER: And are there settings within the apps that you 167 00:07:12,580 --> 00:07:14,859 PRODUCER: will set up to block any content that you don't 168 00:07:14,860 --> 00:07:16,209 PRODUCER: really want to see? 169 00:07:16,210 --> 00:07:17,799 ZARA: I feel like it's a mix of both. 170 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,169 ZARA: For example TikTok, if you just say "I'm not 171 00:07:20,170 --> 00:07:23,319 ZARA: interested" in stuff, the stuff that you are 172 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,269 ZARA: interested will just be there. 173 00:07:25,270 --> 00:07:27,609 ZARA: But other apps work a bit differently. 174 00:07:27,610 --> 00:07:30,639 ZARA: For example, Instagram: I like the videos 175 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,789 ZARA: that I like and enjoy, so then those mainly come 176 00:07:33,790 --> 00:07:35,829 ZARA: up. But for TikTok it's the other way around. 177 00:07:35,830 --> 00:07:38,379 ZARA: I just say "I'm not interested in this". 178 00:07:38,380 --> 00:07:40,959 ZARA: So it just varies across apps. 179 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,779 WILL: Well, I mean, it was really interesting seeing what 180 00:07:43,780 --> 00:07:46,029 WILL: Zara had to say about manipulating your algorithm, 181 00:07:46,030 --> 00:07:47,349 WILL: because I kind of do that too. 182 00:07:47,350 --> 00:07:50,369 WILL: You know, you have to like the videos that you like, 183 00:07:50,370 --> 00:07:52,319 WILL: straight away just scroll past videos that you 184 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,439 WILL: wouldn't find interesting, even if— Say you stumble 185 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,109 WILL: upon a video that has, you know, completely opposing 186 00:07:58,110 --> 00:08:01,109 WILL: views to you, and you want to view that video just 187 00:08:01,110 --> 00:08:04,739 WILL: out of curiosity because what have I got to say? 188 00:08:04,740 --> 00:08:07,739 WILL: I don't like this kind of content, but still, I'm 189 00:08:07,740 --> 00:08:09,929 WILL: interested in the opposing views to mine. 190 00:08:09,930 --> 00:08:12,719 WILL: And then you just suddenly get loads of videos like 191 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,019 WILL: that, hundreds of videos that are just 192 00:08:16,020 --> 00:08:18,719 WILL: not your views. And then you're like, "oh no, what's 193 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,389 WILL: happened here?" So you have to be really careful with 194 00:08:21,390 --> 00:08:23,849 WILL: what you watch and what you like and what you 195 00:08:23,850 --> 00:08:24,809 WILL: dislike. 196 00:08:24,810 --> 00:08:27,719 ZARA: I think yesterday, I was watching something out of 197 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,749 ZARA: curiosity, and then the next day my 198 00:08:30,750 --> 00:08:32,819 ZARA: whole 'For You' page filled with that. 199 00:08:32,820 --> 00:08:35,969 ZARA: And then it didn't let me go back to my original 200 00:08:35,970 --> 00:08:37,739 ZARA: 'For You' page for a couple of days. I think that's 201 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:39,479 ZARA: definitely a really good point. 202 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,908 PRODUCER: And do you worry about algorithms and how they're 203 00:08:41,909 --> 00:08:43,619 PRODUCER: affecting what you see? 204 00:08:43,620 --> 00:08:46,769 ZARA: Maybe not for me, but I feel like for other people, 205 00:08:46,770 --> 00:08:49,789 ZARA: because if they see that repeatedly... 206 00:08:49,790 --> 00:08:52,279 ZARA: I don't know about you, but if you see a story and 207 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,279 ZARA: you hear it from one person, I feel like you're 208 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,619 ZARA: more likely to believe it from the first person you 209 00:08:57,620 --> 00:08:59,029 ZARA: heard for some reason. 210 00:08:59,030 --> 00:09:02,239 ZARA: And I feel like if other people saw 211 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,239 ZARA: algorithms just, you know, only conveying 212 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,029 ZARA: one view, they'll be more likely to believe that. 213 00:09:08,030 --> 00:09:10,279 ZARA: And then it just creates a whole cycle. 214 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,529 WILL: Yeah. I was just going to say it is kind of crazy how 215 00:09:12,530 --> 00:09:15,289 WILL: futile algorithms are. 216 00:09:15,290 --> 00:09:17,189 WILL: The other day, I was just trying to make a point to 217 00:09:17,190 --> 00:09:19,429 WILL: my TikTok that I want to watch lots of stand up 218 00:09:19,430 --> 00:09:21,679 WILL: comedians. So I was following all these great stand 219 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:23,839 WILL: up comedians, I was like, "oh, this is great". 220 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,839 WILL: And then the next day, because of Donald Trump's 221 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,629 WILL: inauguration, my whole algorithm was filled with 222 00:09:29,630 --> 00:09:31,069 WILL: content about that. 223 00:09:31,070 --> 00:09:34,099 WILL: And then suddenly, now that it isn't as relevant 224 00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:37,099 WILL: anymore, I'm now getting stand up comedians again. 225 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:40,249 WILL: So I just wish it was more permanent. 226 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:43,009 WILL: But it still needs to be easy to change. 227 00:09:43,010 --> 00:09:45,379 PRODUCER: Just really fascinating to hear you both talk 228 00:09:45,380 --> 00:09:48,519 PRODUCER: about the algorithms and how you can manipulate 229 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,079 PRODUCER: them or what changes you'd like to see. 230 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,139 PRODUCER: My next question — we sort of touched on this 231 00:09:53,140 --> 00:09:54,819 PRODUCER: because it's a flip of the question I've just 232 00:09:54,820 --> 00:09:57,429 PRODUCER: asked — what makes you feel less comfortable 233 00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:58,509 PRODUCER: online? 234 00:09:58,510 --> 00:10:01,239 WILL: Yeah, I guess fairly similarly to what we've already 235 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,699 WILL: said, just videos coming up that we don't feel 236 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:06,789 WILL: comfortable with that are hard to push 237 00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:09,729 WILL: away. Especially when if you watch the entire video, 238 00:10:09,730 --> 00:10:11,559 WILL: even if it's just by accident, like you leave it 239 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:13,959 WILL: sitting on the counter and it runs twice, then you're 240 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,089 WILL: going to get lots of videos like that one. 241 00:10:16,090 --> 00:10:18,789 WILL: So yeah, I guess better control would be very 242 00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:19,899 WILL: helpful. 243 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:23,079 ZARA: Something that makes me feel less comfortable is when 244 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,169 ZARA: there's misinformation, but when 245 00:10:26,170 --> 00:10:27,489 ZARA: it's a large amount. 246 00:10:27,490 --> 00:10:30,459 ZARA: For example, for my 'For You' page, it's a mixture 247 00:10:30,460 --> 00:10:33,069 ZARA: of what I like and what's trending. 248 00:10:33,070 --> 00:10:36,069 ZARA: And sometimes people like stuff that 249 00:10:36,070 --> 00:10:38,406 ZARA: isn't true or AI deepfakes or something. 250 00:10:38,407 --> 00:10:41,729 ZARA: For example, my dad sent me a really 251 00:10:41,730 --> 00:10:43,839 ZARA: popular video and I was like, "oh, this is going to 252 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,259 ZARA: be funny." It was an AI image. 253 00:10:46,260 --> 00:10:48,329 ZARA: And my dad's like, "oh my God, that's so cool. 254 00:10:48,330 --> 00:10:50,309 ZARA: Have you seen this before?" And I was like, "no, dad, 255 00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:51,149 ZARA: it's AI". 256 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:53,309 PRODUCER: Is it something that you'd like to learn more 257 00:10:53,310 --> 00:10:56,039 PRODUCER: about in school — the impacts of misinformation 258 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,589 PRODUCER: or how these things work, how these technologies 259 00:10:58,590 --> 00:10:59,309 PRODUCER: work? 260 00:10:59,310 --> 00:11:02,339 ZARA: Yeah, definitely. Today I had PD day — which is 261 00:11:02,340 --> 00:11:05,190 ZARA: personal development, but I think some schools have 262 00:11:06,330 --> 00:11:09,719 ZARA: PSHE — and the theme was online safety. 263 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,609 ZARA: I don't think we did anything on AI or 264 00:11:11,610 --> 00:11:14,609 ZARA: misinformation. It was just cyberbullying, 265 00:11:14,610 --> 00:11:17,789 ZARA: don't post certain stuff, digital footprint; just 266 00:11:17,790 --> 00:11:19,979 ZARA: like the normal things that we learn in school. 267 00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:22,169 ZARA: And if you do want to learn about it, I feel like you 268 00:11:22,170 --> 00:11:24,569 ZARA: have to actually research it. 269 00:11:24,570 --> 00:11:27,479 ZARA: And then sometimes the research that you do, it's 270 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,239 ZARA: biased. So I feel like it'd be really good if you had 271 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,969 ZARA: a reliable source of information of how to tell 272 00:11:32,970 --> 00:11:34,768 ZARA: what's AI or not. 273 00:11:34,769 --> 00:11:36,599 WILL: Like Zara, I also think it's interesting that schools 274 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,599 WILL: are still, in today's day, repeating the 275 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,509 WILL: same information that lots of us have heard again and 276 00:11:42,510 --> 00:11:44,340 WILL: again about cyberbullying and stuff that, 277 00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:48,089 WILL: you know, we all know is important, but we've heard 278 00:11:48,090 --> 00:11:50,609 WILL: it a million times. Whereas I've never heard a 279 00:11:50,610 --> 00:11:53,639 WILL: teacher mention AI to me in a way that wasn't just 280 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,049 WILL: conversational. 281 00:11:55,050 --> 00:11:57,516 WILL: So it would be really interesting to see the 282 00:11:57,517 --> 00:12:00,719 WILL: curriculum updated to mention current topics 283 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,299 WILL: and affairs. You know, artificial intelligence is 284 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:06,049 WILL: sort of a sci-fi movie concept, but it's real today. 285 00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:09,269 WILL: It's reality, and we need to be taught about it. 286 00:12:09,270 --> 00:12:12,389 ZARA: I 100% agree with Will, because the internet 287 00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:15,689 ZARA: and the online world is evolving, but our 288 00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:17,099 ZARA: curriculum isn't. 289 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:20,399 ZARA: For example, my teacher — she was giving an example 290 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,069 ZARA: of an app and she said 'MySpace'. 291 00:12:23,070 --> 00:12:24,629 ZARA: And then she said 'Vine'. 292 00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:27,989 ZARA: And mind you, most of us are Gen Alpha, Gen Z, 293 00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:30,149 ZARA: so none of us knew what it was unless we'd seen 294 00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:32,909 ZARA: skits. And we were so confused, because she was 295 00:12:32,910 --> 00:12:35,969 ZARA: giving us an example of how to report 296 00:12:35,970 --> 00:12:38,189 ZARA: something, and we were so confused the whole time. 297 00:12:38,190 --> 00:12:40,589 PRODUCER: Yeah. And with young people using so many 298 00:12:40,590 --> 00:12:42,554 PRODUCER: different apps, it can be tricky to have 299 00:12:44,210 --> 00:12:46,309 PRODUCER: knowledge of all of them. 300 00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:49,399 PRODUCER: When you make those decisions to say, "oh, 301 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,649 PRODUCER: I'm going to use this new app", do you talk to 302 00:12:51,650 --> 00:12:54,139 PRODUCER: anyone about it? Do you talk to your teachers? 303 00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:57,169 WILL: I mean, I guess when I first got Instagram, not 304 00:12:57,170 --> 00:12:58,639 WILL: a lot of people that I knew were on it. 305 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,009 WILL: So there's barely anyone to talk to about it, to be 306 00:13:01,010 --> 00:13:03,799 WILL: fair. But, you know, you'll mention it to your 307 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,749 WILL: friends like, "oh, I've got Instagram and there's 308 00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:07,519 WILL: this feature that I didn't know is there, and there's 309 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:08,569 WILL: this and that." 310 00:13:08,570 --> 00:13:11,569 ZARA: I don't think anyone thinks about talking 311 00:13:11,570 --> 00:13:13,129 ZARA: to a teacher. 312 00:13:13,130 --> 00:13:15,769 ZARA: If I was getting Instagram, I didn't go to my form 313 00:13:15,770 --> 00:13:18,349 ZARA: tutor and ask "Miss, should I get Insta?" I just 314 00:13:18,350 --> 00:13:19,849 ZARA: thought of getting it. 315 00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:22,069 ZARA: So I just went on my app and downloaded it. 316 00:13:22,070 --> 00:13:24,829 ZARA: But I feel like even if I did, I feel like they'd 317 00:13:24,830 --> 00:13:27,919 ZARA: tell me not to or say something, you 318 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,229 ZARA: know, negative. Or if I said I'm going to get 319 00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:32,299 ZARA: something, they're just going to be like, "make sure 320 00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:35,269 ZARA: to set, you know, blocks and stuff on there." I 321 00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:38,149 ZARA: feel like we only hear teachers talk about how to 322 00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:41,179 ZARA: stay safe online, like it's so bad that 323 00:13:41,180 --> 00:13:43,659 ZARA: we need to be taught how to stay safe, not to enjoy 324 00:13:43,660 --> 00:13:46,989 ZARA: it. It's normalised that it's bad 325 00:13:46,990 --> 00:13:48,789 ZARA: and we should know how to deal with it, rather than 326 00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:51,309 ZARA: what things it could be useful for. 327 00:13:51,310 --> 00:13:53,589 WILL: Yeah, definitely there needs to be more positivity 328 00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:55,959 WILL: about being online. But again, you can't just 329 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,209 WILL: completely ignore the negatives, because there are 330 00:13:58,210 --> 00:14:00,339 WILL: negatives and they are important. 331 00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:03,759 WILL: It's sort of important to have a non-biased 332 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,649 WILL: view of things and a balanced view of things. 333 00:14:05,650 --> 00:14:07,329 WILL: Otherwise it's just not going to work. 334 00:14:07,330 --> 00:14:09,429 PRODUCER: Yeah, my next question was going to be more about 335 00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:12,399 PRODUCER: those worries and concerns and 336 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,969 PRODUCER: possibly negatives rather than positives. 337 00:14:15,970 --> 00:14:18,879 PRODUCER: What are the things about being online that 338 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,189 PRODUCER: concern you the most right now? 339 00:14:21,190 --> 00:14:23,649 WILL: I guess the thing that is most concerning is people's 340 00:14:23,650 --> 00:14:25,509 WILL: lack of awareness. 341 00:14:25,510 --> 00:14:28,629 WILL: If you look online and you see something, 342 00:14:28,630 --> 00:14:31,119 WILL: I can usually tell if something's AI generated, but 343 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,799 WILL: it's getting better and better. 344 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,899 WILL: But there's so many people in the comments section, 345 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:36,909 WILL: they're like, "wow, is this real? 346 00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:39,849 WILL: I never knew that, that's crazy!" Because why 347 00:14:39,850 --> 00:14:41,999 WILL: wouldn't you believe it? Because it's on your phone, 348 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,219 WILL: and BBC News is on your phone. 349 00:14:44,220 --> 00:14:47,669 WILL: It's only one click away from your TikTok feed. 350 00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:49,589 ZARA: That's a really good point, because if you think 351 00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:51,929 ZARA: about concerns, people are just going to say 352 00:14:51,930 --> 00:14:54,719 ZARA: generated images or deepfakes. 353 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,569 ZARA: But the actual aspect of people not being aware of 354 00:14:57,570 --> 00:15:00,320 ZARA: how bad it is, is much more scary to think about. 355 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,919 ZARA: This morning we had an assembly on how AI 356 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,929 ZARA: was, you know, manipulating people, which is actually 357 00:15:06,930 --> 00:15:08,969 ZARA: quite good for my school; quite progressive to talk 358 00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:11,969 ZARA: about AI. They gave an example that 359 00:15:11,970 --> 00:15:14,939 ZARA: someone cloned David Attenborough's voice 360 00:15:14,940 --> 00:15:17,849 ZARA: and the person next to me said, "oh, that's so funny. 361 00:15:17,850 --> 00:15:21,059 ZARA: Imagine people are listening to that and getting 362 00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:23,729 ZARA: pranked." I think she gave an example of just David 363 00:15:23,730 --> 00:15:26,099 ZARA: Attenborough saying, "oh no, the house cat has gone 364 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:29,099 ZARA: extinct." And then people, you know, believing that. 365 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:32,189 ZARA: And you feel like it's normal to make jokes but 366 00:15:32,190 --> 00:15:34,859 ZARA: I don't think a lot of people understand that it 367 00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:37,319 ZARA: could be used for much more malicious purposes. 368 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,709 PRODUCER: And speaking of malicious purposes, 369 00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:43,529 PRODUCER: are either of you worried about the potential use 370 00:15:43,530 --> 00:15:47,699 PRODUCER: of generative AI in relation to cyberbullying? 371 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,009 WILL: I mean, it's easy to worry about it because it's 372 00:15:50,010 --> 00:15:52,859 WILL: already happening. You know, people are getting 373 00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:55,769 WILL: images made of them that are just— obviously they 374 00:15:55,770 --> 00:15:58,349 WILL: aren't them. But to a lot of people, they see that 375 00:15:58,350 --> 00:16:01,559 WILL: image straight away and think, "that's my friend. 376 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,139 WILL: Why are they doing that?" And it's concerning the 377 00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:07,229 WILL: effects that AI can have and is already having. 378 00:16:07,230 --> 00:16:09,119 WILL: But, as well, you have to look to the future. 379 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,519 WILL: Because if AI is like this now, and you compare that 380 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,609 WILL: to AI from last year, there's already been 381 00:16:14,610 --> 00:16:17,219 WILL: so much progression that it's only going to get more 382 00:16:17,220 --> 00:16:20,369 WILL: and more realistic. So change needs to happen now to 383 00:16:20,370 --> 00:16:23,249 WILL: stop more concern in the future. 384 00:16:23,250 --> 00:16:26,219 PRODUCER: How would you advise schools approach the problem 385 00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:27,959 PRODUCER: of generative AI? 386 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,299 WILL: I mean, it would benefit a lot of people if they just 387 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:32,579 WILL: had one lesson in their entire life that said, you 388 00:16:32,580 --> 00:16:35,339 WILL: know, how to spot AI images, look for extra fingers 389 00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:37,099 WILL: and that kind of thing. 390 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:39,469 WILL: Because a lot of people... 391 00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:42,169 WILL: Even though a lot of people would assume everyone 392 00:16:42,170 --> 00:16:45,199 WILL: from the younger generation is super-prepared 393 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,259 WILL: and knows everything about being online and 394 00:16:48,260 --> 00:16:50,629 WILL: they're constantly online, even people who are 395 00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:54,289 WILL: constantly online don't have to be 100% 396 00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:57,979 WILL: informed about the risks or about AI. 397 00:16:57,980 --> 00:17:00,379 ZARA: Everything that Will said I agree with, especially 398 00:17:00,380 --> 00:17:02,929 ZARA: about how it has to be done now. 399 00:17:02,930 --> 00:17:05,689 ZARA: For example, how you have to write that something is 400 00:17:05,690 --> 00:17:08,689 ZARA: AI generated, or if something, you 401 00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:10,489 ZARA: know, is made by AI. 402 00:17:10,490 --> 00:17:13,068 ZARA: Even companies now are getting away with it. 403 00:17:13,069 --> 00:17:14,069 ZARA: For example, chatGPT. 404 00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:18,229 ZARA: It says chatGPT can make mistakes and blah blah blah. 405 00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:21,469 ZARA: But it's in really tiny 406 00:17:21,470 --> 00:17:24,499 ZARA: font and it's in a separate tab thing, you have 407 00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:27,828 ZARA: to click an arrow for it to appear, and you have to 408 00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:30,799 ZARA: actively search for it to say that it's 409 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,179 ZARA: AI generated. 410 00:17:32,180 --> 00:17:35,029 ZARA: Especially in images where you can make AI generated 411 00:17:35,030 --> 00:17:38,109 ZARA: images, it's not even a watermark anymore it's 412 00:17:38,110 --> 00:17:41,109 ZARA: a tiny, like, writing bit on the edge of 413 00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:41,649 ZARA: it. 414 00:17:41,650 --> 00:17:44,239 WILL: Yeah. On Zara's point, what she was saying about how 415 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,349 WILL: ChatGPT has a very small marker saying "this could 416 00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:50,349 WILL: not be true." AI's like ChatGPT, Google 417 00:17:50,350 --> 00:17:52,879 WILL: Gemini, they'll present pretty much everything as 418 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,019 WILL: solid fact. I know it went viral a short while 419 00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:58,929 WILL: ago: if you ask ChatGPT how many R's are there in the 420 00:17:58,930 --> 00:18:01,209 WILL: word 'strawberry', it literally doesn't know. 421 00:18:01,210 --> 00:18:03,909 WILL: But it'll say to you, "oh, there are five R's in 422 00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:06,969 WILL: 'strawberry'", and it's not going to say 423 00:18:06,970 --> 00:18:09,036 WILL: "sorry, I just don't know how to answer that" because 424 00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:13,209 WILL: it can't. It's not programmed to say "no" to 425 00:18:13,210 --> 00:18:15,639 WILL: anything that isn't illegal, basically. 426 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,099 ZARA: There is someone saying "one plus one equals three" 427 00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:21,219 ZARA: to chatGPT so many times that it just said, "yeah, it 428 00:18:21,220 --> 00:18:23,490 ZARA: is three". So many other people did that. 429 00:18:23,491 --> 00:18:26,499 ZARA: And now if you ask, there's a 430 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:29,379 ZARA: chance that it might say "three" because ChatGPT is 431 00:18:29,380 --> 00:18:32,349 ZARA: not based just on AI, it's kind of 432 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:35,489 ZARA: general knowledge and it just picks the most looked 433 00:18:35,490 --> 00:18:37,889 ZARA: at. For example, if you just Google on Google Gemini, 434 00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:40,979 ZARA: it just picks the top answers and then puts it there. 435 00:18:40,980 --> 00:18:43,679 ZARA: So it's not definite fact but people take it as 436 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,289 ZARA: definite fact. And if you're googling something, you 437 00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:48,629 ZARA: don't want to go into article, you want it in a tiny 438 00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:50,744 ZARA: little square at the top of your page, because 439 00:18:51,810 --> 00:18:54,299 ZARA: I don't think people really take the initiative to 440 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:57,119 ZARA: check if the information is true or not. 441 00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:58,949 ZARA: They just, you know, go with it. 442 00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:01,979 PRODUCER: Moving on from generative AI a little bit, I 443 00:19:01,980 --> 00:19:04,169 PRODUCER: wonder if there are any other things about being 444 00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:07,349 PRODUCER: online that concern you at the moment? 445 00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:09,779 WILL: I guess if there was one other thing other than 446 00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:10,811 WILL: generative AI that's concerning, it's 447 00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:15,959 WILL: the amount of control that you don't 448 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,447 WILL: have over what you see. 449 00:19:18,780 --> 00:19:20,819 WILL: I know we were mentioning earlier about trying to 450 00:19:20,820 --> 00:19:23,279 WILL: manipulate your algorithm into giving you the videos 451 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:24,539 WILL: that you want. 452 00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:27,629 WILL: But nowadays people can buy views. 453 00:19:27,630 --> 00:19:29,999 WILL: Like literally, if you upload a TikTok video, it'll 454 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,709 WILL: say, "oh, this video is doing great. 455 00:19:31,710 --> 00:19:34,609 WILL: Want to make it do greater? Pay us £5 and then we'll 456 00:19:34,610 --> 00:19:37,729 WILL: give it 100,000 views." That's 457 00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:40,969 WILL: scary that you can just manipulate what other people 458 00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:43,399 WILL: see. And that means that you're not in control of 459 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,959 WILL: what you see either. 460 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,549 ZARA: I know how we were talking about, you know, 461 00:19:46,550 --> 00:19:49,249 ZARA: manipulating your 'For You' page, but I don't think 462 00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:52,339 ZARA: anyone really understands how algorithms actually 463 00:19:52,340 --> 00:19:54,799 ZARA: work or why it's tailored to me. 464 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,384 ZARA: I know it's just because, you know, if you like 465 00:19:56,385 --> 00:19:59,239 ZARA: something, it will come up to you, but also the 466 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,279 ZARA: impact on following people. 467 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,529 ZARA: For example, when I got Instagram, I followed my 468 00:20:03,530 --> 00:20:06,559 ZARA: friends and the videos that they watched came to me 469 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,599 ZARA: even before they sent it to me. 470 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,996 ZARA: So I'd really love to learn how that works as well. 471 00:20:11,997 --> 00:20:14,419 PRODUCER: How does that make you feel when you're getting 472 00:20:14,420 --> 00:20:16,519 PRODUCER: served the same content that your friend is 473 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,049 PRODUCER: before they even send it to you? 474 00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:19,309 PRODUCER: Does that feel strange? 475 00:20:19,310 --> 00:20:22,309 ZARA: I think it does feel strange, because if you think 476 00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:25,129 ZARA: about the 'For You' page, it literally has the word 477 00:20:25,130 --> 00:20:27,979 ZARA: "you", not "for your friend" page. 478 00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:30,049 ZARA: But, sometimes... I used to think it was kind of 479 00:20:30,050 --> 00:20:32,239 ZARA: funny because, before my friend would send me a meme, 480 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:33,506 ZARA: I could say "I watched that already". 481 00:20:33,507 --> 00:20:35,703 ZARA: But now it's kind of... 482 00:20:35,704 --> 00:20:38,569 ZARA: I don't really like how it impacts stuff, because 483 00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:40,909 ZARA: even though they are my friends, some stuff I don't 484 00:20:40,910 --> 00:20:44,029 ZARA: agree with or I don't find as funny, but it'll 485 00:20:44,030 --> 00:20:45,829 ZARA: just be on my 'For You' page. So I think it's 486 00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:48,859 ZARA: something that needs to be looked at. 487 00:20:48,860 --> 00:20:50,869 WILL: Yeah, I totally agree with you Zara on that point 488 00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:53,269 WILL: because I've been having the same problem recently. 489 00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:56,059 WILL: My friend sends me a video and 80% of the time I've 490 00:20:56,060 --> 00:20:59,389 WILL: already seen it. Is this really a 'for me' page? 491 00:20:59,390 --> 00:21:01,188 WILL: Because it seems like everyone in my friendship 492 00:21:01,189 --> 00:21:04,939 WILL: group's getting the exact same posts, and 493 00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:07,459 WILL: that's just strange to me. 494 00:21:07,460 --> 00:21:10,549 PRODUCER: And do either of you worry about 495 00:21:10,550 --> 00:21:12,889 PRODUCER: the data that these apps and these online 496 00:21:12,890 --> 00:21:15,019 PRODUCER: companies are gathering to power their 497 00:21:15,020 --> 00:21:18,649 PRODUCER: algorithms? Is that a concern for either of you? 498 00:21:18,650 --> 00:21:21,859 WILL: I feel like you're kind of aware that 499 00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:25,039 WILL: they're taking your data. And because it, you 500 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,859 WILL: know, says it in the name — it's 'for you'. 501 00:21:27,860 --> 00:21:30,879 WILL: It feels like I don't mind 502 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,489 WILL: too much that they're taking it because at least 503 00:21:33,490 --> 00:21:35,199 WILL: they're given me videos. 504 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,149 WILL: But it is concerning when you don't know where that 505 00:21:37,150 --> 00:21:39,999 WILL: data might end up outside of the platform that you're 506 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:40,869 WILL: on. 507 00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:42,852 ZARA: I feel like you obviously consent to stuff. 508 00:21:42,853 --> 00:21:44,788 ZARA: To be on the app, you have to click 'consent', 509 00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:47,859 ZARA: otherwise you can't use the app 510 00:21:47,860 --> 00:21:50,379 ZARA: itself. And I think people just complain for the 511 00:21:50,380 --> 00:21:52,869 ZARA: point of complaining, but you can actively look for 512 00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:56,049 ZARA: it. But I remember we were working on our manifesto 513 00:21:56,050 --> 00:21:58,599 ZARA: last year, and we were talking about how a lot of 514 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,879 ZARA: young people, or just people in general, don't really 515 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,189 ZARA: look at it; they just click 'accept' because, you 516 00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:04,749 ZARA: know, I want to see the videos. 517 00:22:04,750 --> 00:22:08,259 ZARA: And I think— I think it was Will's group, they made 518 00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:11,289 ZARA: the idea of having a little pop-up tab of 519 00:22:11,290 --> 00:22:14,589 ZARA: the vendors and stuff, so then people can see where 520 00:22:14,590 --> 00:22:17,589 ZARA: the data gets sent to. But it's only a summary of it, 521 00:22:17,590 --> 00:22:20,529 ZARA: so then more people are more likely to read it? 522 00:22:20,530 --> 00:22:21,879 PRODUCER: I'm conscious we're nearly at the end of our 523 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,669 PRODUCER: time, but I have one concluding question for you 524 00:22:24,670 --> 00:22:27,939 PRODUCER: both. What are the top three things 525 00:22:27,940 --> 00:22:30,689 PRODUCER: you think adults should know about what online 526 00:22:30,690 --> 00:22:32,339 PRODUCER: life is like for young people? 527 00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:36,089 WILL: I've got three. They're not really in any kind of 528 00:22:36,090 --> 00:22:37,090 WILL: particular order. 529 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,339 WILL: So, my first one being that generative AI 530 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:43,679 WILL: isn't just homework answers. 531 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,649 WILL: It is a lot more than that and it can be 532 00:22:46,650 --> 00:22:49,049 WILL: genuinely quite dangerous. 533 00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:51,858 WILL: My second one is that algorithms are 534 00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:56,489 WILL: a big part of young people's lives and they 535 00:22:56,490 --> 00:22:59,609 WILL: aren't super easy to control or get out of your life. 536 00:22:59,610 --> 00:23:02,189 WILL: It's not like you can just put the phone down a lot 537 00:23:02,190 --> 00:23:03,659 WILL: of the time. 538 00:23:03,660 --> 00:23:06,119 WILL: That doesn't mean it's super hard to either. 539 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,329 WILL: It's like... It's a controllable yet 540 00:23:09,330 --> 00:23:11,579 WILL: uncontrollable part of your life. 541 00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:14,969 WILL: So, I guess my last point is it's not as easy 542 00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:17,969 WILL: as just hitting block or turning off your phone 543 00:23:17,970 --> 00:23:20,939 WILL: to stop an issue that's happening 544 00:23:20,940 --> 00:23:23,999 WILL: because you can't just switch off your phone 545 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,339 WILL: for the rest of your life. I feel like even adults 546 00:23:26,340 --> 00:23:28,939 WILL: would know that. You know, I know so many adults that 547 00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:31,849 WILL: are scrolling on Instagram Reels all day and then 548 00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:34,099 WILL: belittling young people for scrolling on TikTok all 549 00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:36,799 WILL: day — it's the same thing. 550 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,199 WILL: But you can't just hit block either, because, you 551 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,659 WILL: know, people constantly make new accounts, they find 552 00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:44,749 WILL: new ways, and they adapt around changes. 553 00:23:44,750 --> 00:23:47,209 PRODUCER: Thanks, Will. Zara, what are your thoughts on 554 00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:48,379 PRODUCER: this question? 555 00:23:48,380 --> 00:23:52,069 ZARA: I have one key point that goes into three. 556 00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:55,129 ZARA: Online safety isn't just cyberbullying, because I 557 00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:58,374 ZARA: feel like that's the main focus of every single PD 558 00:23:58,375 --> 00:24:01,849 ZARA: lesson. And also the complexity of cyberbullying. 559 00:24:01,850 --> 00:24:04,819 ZARA: It's not just someone blatantly saying, "I don't like 560 00:24:04,820 --> 00:24:07,879 ZARA: you." It kind of includes microaggressions and 561 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,649 ZARA: even stuff that teachers don't realise, like if 562 00:24:09,650 --> 00:24:12,679 ZARA: someone didn't tag you in a post, that would 563 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,269 ZARA: hurt, or something like that. 564 00:24:14,270 --> 00:24:17,119 ZARA: And it's not just someone commenting on your post or 565 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:20,299 ZARA: DMing you privately, but it's other stuff, 566 00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,669 ZARA: more detailed stuff. And I feel like schools should 567 00:24:22,670 --> 00:24:26,089 ZARA: be more aware of that. And also addictive behaviour: 568 00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:29,299 ZARA: I feel like schools think that we're 569 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,449 ZARA: the ones at fault for it, like we're actively 570 00:24:32,450 --> 00:24:35,119 ZARA: thinking, "oh I'm going to go on my phone. 571 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,469 ZARA: I'm not going to do my homework. 572 00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:39,319 ZARA: I'm going to spend six hours on TikTok in my bed." 573 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,089 ZARA: But I don't think they understand the role of 574 00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:44,059 ZARA: algorithms. It's designed to keep 575 00:24:44,060 --> 00:24:46,489 ZARA: us scrolling for hours. That just means that doing 576 00:24:46,490 --> 00:24:49,279 ZARA: their job well. So it's not just us at fault. 577 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,489 ZARA: And also the emotional impact of misinformation. 578 00:24:52,490 --> 00:24:55,459 ZARA: I feel like a lot of schools just teach 579 00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:57,379 ZARA: us not to spread information because, you know, it 580 00:24:57,380 --> 00:24:59,779 ZARA: could be used maliciously. 581 00:24:59,780 --> 00:25:01,490 ZARA: But even hearing it, 582 00:25:02,780 --> 00:25:05,569 ZARA: a lot of people feel emotionally connected to 583 00:25:05,570 --> 00:25:07,339 ZARA: something. And if they hear something against that 584 00:25:07,340 --> 00:25:10,069 ZARA: that isn't real; or they know it isn't real and then 585 00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:11,719 ZARA: loads of people are agreeing with that; or your 586 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,140 ZARA: friends have seen it and they're like, "yeah, that's 587 00:25:13,141 --> 00:25:16,099 ZARA: definitely true, I saw it ten times", it 588 00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:19,279 ZARA: could be overwhelming and it's really confusing. 589 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,919 PRODUCER: So that brings us to the end of our discussion 590 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,299 PRODUCER: today. Zara. 591 00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:25,779 PRODUCER: Will, thank you so much for joining us on the 592 00:25:25,780 --> 00:25:28,359 PRODUCER: podcast and providing a really interesting 593 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:31,329 PRODUCER: insight into your thoughts and opinions on the 594 00:25:31,330 --> 00:25:33,639 PRODUCER: online world and online safety. 595 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,379 WILL: Thank you so much for having us. 596 00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:36,759 ZARA: Thank you. 597 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,859 PRODUCER: If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to 598 00:25:38,860 --> 00:25:42,039 PRODUCER: hear more from the NSPCC's Voice of Online Youth, 599 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,319 PRODUCER: you can find a link to their manifesto for change 600 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,453 PRODUCER: in the podcast shownotes. 601 00:25:46,510 --> 00:25:48,669 PRODUCER: You'll also find links to lots of other resources 602 00:25:48,670 --> 00:25:50,859 PRODUCER: and training to help you keep children safe 603 00:25:50,860 --> 00:25:52,119 PRODUCER: online. 604 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:53,120 PRODUCER: Thanks for listening. 605 00:25:56,980 --> 00:26:00,669 OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC learning Podcast. 606 00:26:00,670 --> 00:26:03,549 OUTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content was 607 00:26:03,550 --> 00:26:06,189 OUTRO: up to date, but the world of safeguarding and child 608 00:26:06,190 --> 00:26:07,190 OUTRO: protection is ever-changing. 609 00:26:08,260 --> 00:26:10,359 OUTRO: So, if you're looking for the most current 610 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:13,089 OUTRO: safeguarding and child protection training, 611 00:26:13,090 --> 00:26:16,059 OUTRO: information or resources, please visit 612 00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:18,357 OUTRO: our website for professionals at 613 00:26:18,358 --> 00:26:19,358 OUTRO: nspcc.org.uk/learning.