Okay, Bob. Thanks for coming in today, Bob Gasoff. A lot to talk about today. Before I jump into that, can you tell me, and our listeners, just a little bit about who you are, you don't have to go crazy, but maybe kind of give them a sense of, you know, high level, who you are, what you do. Well, appreciate having me first ship and and looking forward to the chat with you today. So as you know, born and raised in St. Louis, we go back since you and I, the fifth grade at country day, um, left home when I was 16, uh, pursued hockey. And it was my kind of life and passion and, um, played college and a little bit of pro after college and then, um, shifted to some military time Post 9 /11 and 2003 and did that active duty till about 2009 and then came back to St. Louis with with my family and and I got into our family business been here been here since well that certainly is a high level but as you're talking about that I remember going to your house we met in fifth grade and going to your house and - You had the most amazing Lego sets I'd ever seen in the basement in the closet. Like, I remember walking in and be like, "Holy shit." - I think it's still there. My mom doesn't throw anything out, as you know. - You still have bubble hockey down there? - That's at our house now. But I think the Legos are still down there. My mom can't part with them. You know, as an only child growing up, I had to occupy a lot of time by myself. and that was one of the things that I fell in love with early at a young age and did a lot of alone time with Legos and building and but if I wasn't doing sports or anything like that, that was a home by myself, that's what I was doing. - You should get a handwritten letter from Legos and they should be thanking you for that, for helping them get out of the gate. All the Legos you guys were buying. - We definitely kept the market shares up in I'm not fucking around. OK, so you went high level. So you start off really athletically hockey. And hockey, I think, is really sort of-- hockey is very much a culture, like many sports, and really kind of crafting who you are and who you become as much as your family and your friends themselves. And so you did have a long career in hockey. I remember We used to watch you play junior blues. And then you went, where'd you go? Was that sophomore year? - So I left after our sophomore year. I left my junior and senior year to go play in Sousa, Iowa. Junior hockey, most of the kids are 18, 19, 20. And we only had a couple of kids that were still in high school. - So you were playing up. - I was playing with older guys, both years, that was pretty young, my first year. So that was my junior -senior year, and I was fortunate enough to finagle. I can't take much credit. My parents were fortunate enough to finagle some type of deal. I was not sure how they did it. No one's sure how they did it, how I was able to come back and graduate in the last six weeks of my senior year with my buddies that I was with since fifth grade, Which is pretty neat though and I mean in the in the moment that was great But in hindsight what a great piece of parenting that really was yeah, you know to to kind of glue us all back together That way. Yeah, and I'll share that time together. I think was that was a heads -up play Yeah, my mom's always been really good at that making sure I stay connected to you know Orton aspects of my life whether it's you know, my family up in Canada as my My father passed away before I was born in an accident. So never got to know him, but got to know him through my family and stay very close to that family 'cause of my mom making sure that I had that connection and relationship. And when I left to go to Sioux City, it was important for her to make sure I stayed connected with my friends here, my close friends, you and our group. And I know you've been on many hockey trips to come see me play wherever wherever I was at the time And I know Sioux City had a few few pretty good well -attended trips with with friends Yeah, and going up there and making sure that I kind of always had that connection back to my roots here and the things that were important to me your mom really she She's amazing And I'll say The thing that sticks is the most memorable about that second Sioux City trip was the flight to Kansas City, Arrowhead after that, where all of us were just a little banged up from the night before. And the best we could do was lay on the belly of the plane as it was flying from Sioux City, Iowa. It was like nine degrees at Arrowhead Stadium. Was it cold? Football game, yeah. It was pretty cold. Yeah. Your dad was been real impressed. But so anyways you're going off to Sioux City you're you're becoming it's getting serious like hockey is something you're really dedicating yourself towards what type of hockey player are you are you developing to be at that time because you know we know that you go off to Michigan and you're part of some fabulous teams and so tell me what type of hockey player were you yeah I mean back then I mean the game has changed quite a bit I was just a real hard -working, gritty defensive defenseman, played tough and didn't find myself on the score sheet and the goal and assist column as much as I would have liked, but found my way on it in some other aspects and had a lot of penalty minutes. Is that fair to say you created space for the goal scorers? That That was just it wasn't kind of intentional. That's just kind of the way I played. I didn't really ever go out looking start shit. But the way I played and my intensity level and who I was, it always kind of just seemed to happen. And I never felt like you had a sense of avoidance, though, either. I mean, like you weren't necessarily looking for it. But when it came, I wasn't going to back down. It didn't feel like no. So you you were becoming a pretty physical guy on the ice obviously your skills I think you're under playing I mean you were playing high -level hockey and you also were getting exposure to look guys who could be absolute superstars so there's I mean those guys were you at Michigan you know so you go from Iowa you played a year between Iowa between a city in Michigan right yeah I played same same type of hockey I played junior and British Columbia, the other league comparable to the USHL, Sioux City League I was in, and I call it my post -graduate year. Pretty common path for hockey. - How good of hockey is that where you were that year? - Similar to Sioux City, that's the premier Canadian league at the time and still is. Things are kind of changing right now with NCAA, but Those are the two top leagues and so I'd say 90, 95 % of the college big division one athletes are coming out of those two leagues. And so you're there for the seas for the year. So that's basically like the musketeer. Sioux City could have played that team. Yeah. Like talent -wise or skill -wise. Did you guys play? No. Totally So you when so you're there that year and you're starting to look at college opportunities We know you end up going to Michigan and playing there. Where else were you looking or was it Michigan or Boston? No, it was I mean Michigan was obviously a goal and a dream of mine for for a long time and I had a Opportunity to go up there a few times or some camps red barrenson played with my dad for the blues Obviously, I knew him and had a relationship and got exposed to Michigan early on and just fell in love with the place, but realize it was a, you know, it's a lofty goal, right? A lot of everybody was going to go see. But they were number one at that time? Yeah, since the early '90s, they've always been kind of a top, top program. And so I was playing and obviously that was kind of like, you know, my goal and dream, but I realistically didn't know if that was going to happen. And I'd talked to, at the time, You know, Nordid Aime had come watch me play, you know, Vermont, Clarkson, Cornell, some, some up East schools. And had some conversations, but, you know, I was really getting ready to go back to, to Chilwack and British Columbia for my, my fourth year, my 20 year old year. And, you know, an opportunity came up and they had a spot open up at Michigan and red called me. He's like, would you be interested? And it's like, I'm on the next flight. - See you in a minute. - So that was really an impactful moment in my time. I kind of guided so many things from that point on in my life, not just Michigan hockey and playing pro in my relationships there, but moving on later in military life. And now with my own kids, they all play hockey 'cause they're fourth generation. - Well, there's no choice. - We like to say it's mandatory in the family until you're 18, then you can figure out what you're gonna do with the rest of your life. - Yeah, fair enough. - So I coached my son all these years. This is the first year I didn't coach him, and so I coached the girls team this year, and I had both of them on one team. My 12 -year -old played up with my 14 -year -old, and we work as busy, and a lot of traveled Bobby's hockey, so So usually there's two or three trips a year and say, well, we're gonna maybe just do one 'cause that's enough, right? And I said, but if we're gonna do one, we're gonna make it really good. It's gonna be quality over quantity. And so we got them into a girls tournament in Ann Arbor. And it's actually just outside of Ann Arbor. And so we went up there and I asked the tournament director, you know, could we get, you know, one of our games, you know, since I'm an alumni at Yoast Arena, which is our rink in Michigan. - Okay. - And he's like, well, I'd love to do it, but we don't get ice at Yoast. Nobody gets ice at Yoast. I'm like, okay, let me see if I can work on that. - Nobody used to get ice. - So I called him back and I said, hey, I got a sheet of ice at Yoast at one o 'clock on Friday, can you put one of our games? And he goes, how did you do that? He's like, so. - Don't worry about it. - I know some people. So the girls got to go up there and play at Yoast, and then we had a tour of the locker room there, and then went over to the football big house, got a tour there. - Wow, the trip. - And we went to the Michigan -Michigan State game, which was that night at Yoast. And so the girls got to, you know, experience. - Must've been jaw dropping. - An unbelievable, amazing experience. All the girls on the team were just had the best time. And so, you know, I'm still reaping the benefits today with my kids of being able to have that opportunity to make that decision so far back ago. - And how many times had you sat in the seats in that arena during a game? Was it weird to be on the other side of the glass or have you been to enough games? - I mean, I haven't been to a lot, but I try to get to one, maybe two a year since I've left. During my active duty military days, I'd never really got you know, a handful of years, but I do try to get back now at least once a year. And it's fun. We've had some some reunions for some of our championship teams. Some of your pals show up. Yeah, so it's and still, you know, lifelong friends that. That's a good group. I remember, you know, I've met them, you know, a few times and, you know, it's just like kind of be ready to hang out with those guys. It's like, - I don't know, it can get rowdy. - It can get rowdy. - Fun rowdy. - Same similar fabric to our group of friends here and some of my Navy friends, so I'm just fortunate to have so many like -minded friends but in different circles. - You've built good groups. So back to, so you show up at Michigan, you get the call, you show up, you got your bag and your stick, and maybe a couple changes of close and you get on the ice. What's that moment like when you're at the first practice? Are you just kind of like Jesus? This is the reason. - Yeah, I mean, honestly, you're hanging on, right? You're like, holy shit, this is big time. I mean, obviously a lot of guys I played with went on to play in the NHL. Pretty much everybody played on pro at some level. And you're playing with the best of the best. And As like Billy McCault and Marty Turco at great NHL careers bill is now the head coach of Linnardwood here And and those guys are just so dominant and in the game as seniors That year and you're your first year guy, and you're just you're trying to were you seriously like holy shit This game is so fast. Yeah, it was it was eye -opening and and but you know, you just keep you put your head down You keep keep working hard. And, you know, after a few weeks, you know, you're not just trying to keep up your, your, your, you're in the mix and you're playing. And then, then, you know, farther down the road, you're actually, you know, you feel the improvements and like you're one of the guys that regular guys there. And then the next year, you know, you're not the rookie, you're, you know, you're the guy that's been there and done it. And, you know, the freshmen are now in the spot that you were the year before. And you just kind of go through that process. And do you remember a moment where you were like, I can do this? I know I know you so you're like, I know I can do it. But did you ever have like a moment and I know I'm not talking about complacency. I'm just talking about a moment where you're like, okay, I deserve to be on this team. Yeah. I mean, that freshman year is interesting. It's very, very competitive. And we had about 24 guys on the team, only 20 dress 25 guys 20 dress every game. So me and my roommate who was also a defenseman We were really battling for you know that last you know the defense spot the same spot And he was a very offensive defenseman You know highly recruited and we were very different players, right? Mm -hmm, and he got most of the playing time, you know the first half of the year And I would think I maybe only played you know, a handful of games up until Christmas. So it was tough, it was challenging. And I was pushing myself and working hard to get better and close that gap, right? And then, you know, the way it worked out is, you know, I got my opportunity and when I got my opportunity, you know, I stepped up and I performed and played really well. I never got out of the lineup, you know, the rest of the year after that, which was amazing 'cause that was the year that we one national championship at Michigan, which was incredible in itself because we had 10 freshmen. So if you look at, you know, you got 20 guys. - Oh, you only got 20 guys in there. - 20 guys dressed, and we had 10 of us, nine of us, one guy was in the lineup, he was hurt, not there, but we had nine freshmen. So the 18 skaters, two are goalies, half our team was freshmen. So we weren't expected to win That year we weren't the most talented team, but the end when it mattered when it was on the line We came together. We were the best team and we bought into the system and we bought into each other and You got 20 guys pulling sled in the right direction that way Anything's possible and we were able to I didn't realize that you get that many freshmen on the team You guys must have an insane chemistry. insane chemistry. - It was really good and it was unbelievable and it wasn't that way to start 'cause we actually had one of our freshmen, he wasn't hurt, he actually was asked to leave the team. - Like, is it not welcome anymore? - Yeah, and there was an issue with this person all year long and it caused such a rift between our class and the Classmen and our team in the locker room chemistry was not good because of this one person and one person had finally You know it came to a head at a certain time and you know around I think early February and and you he got kicked off the team and Our team never looked back. I mean you could feel changed everything You could feel the lack of tension dissipate from the room from Tuesday to him being on the team to Wednesday, not being there. I mean, it was tangible. You could touch it. You could actually feel-- - What was the source of his divisiveness? Was he sort of like, he was a really good player, but let everyone know about it? - It was a lot of stuff. He was just engaged in a lot of things that just weren't very team -focused, team dynamic. It caused a lot of distractions and turmoil and kind of just didn't have the right character that everybody else kind of had and that we needed as a team to be successful. So there's a lot of different things. And it's probably best I don't get into some of them. No, yeah, no, no, no detail. It's just like teams are so even the strongest teams are so delicate in some ways. And the fact that one personality or one presence can throw the whole thing out of kilter is, I mean, how many books have been written about that? And it's just really unbelievable that I'll say a fly in the ointment, you know, it's just like this one thing amongst 24 guys. Right. And it's like, wow. Yeah, it's, you know, a cliche fly in the ointment, you know, one bad apple spoils a bunch. And, you know, I kind of lived through that and saw that first hand. And it was amazing, you know, the effect, the and the effect negatively that person had and the positive effect on the situation when that person was removed from our chemistry and whether you're on a hockey team or a seal team or an office team environment, it just really goes to show you that one person can have just devastating detrimental effects on that team and being successful in achieving, you know, your objective. That's really, I've talked about this before, which is, you know, leading a team is about creating the right team. It's also about defending the team. Like once you know that you're really starting to get everything clicking, this concept of I need to defend the team comes into play, meaning very, when you're when you're when you're building a team, you you know that there's going to be a ratio involved of how many people work and don't work. And then you start to reach a point where you're like, got a lot going on right here. And I need to just now really defend what's working. And it's just sort of this in this inflection point of teams. Right. But I would say, So you're playing hockey in Michigan, things are going well. Are you feeling like you're on a track to NHL? I mean, I'm on a track to go somewhere. Not sure where. Obviously, that's the goal for everybody. And you're playing with guys that are playing at the next level in the American Hockey League, which is the AAA right before the NHL. And so you just really have to just take it one step at a time. And you've got to have your goal, but you have to just take it one step at a time. If you get too far ahead of yourself, you're not focusing on the six feet in front of you that you need to be focusing on. So it really is one step in for somebody like me that wasn't as highly skilled or didn't have the talent that a lot of guys I was playing with did. I had to work harder than everybody else did to get the same outcome, to get where I needed to go, to get to the next level. You got to focus on that moment. - And is your body holding up? Like this is, I mean, this is serious sports, right? So are you healthy through this and everything's pretty much okay? - For the most part, I had a few, you always get bumps and bruises and stuff and nothing too major. I broke my sternoclavicular joint one time, my junior year and didn't really realize it was broke, but I couldn't feel my arm or move my arm and it kind of, hard to stick out. - Yeah, it's gonna mess up your game. - So it was weird. I had to take like, Tordol just to get through the pain in the game. And then I found out I was allergic to Tordol and I would break out in all these hives. And then so I'd have to take Benadryl to offset the Tordol. - So it begins. - Yeah, trying to get through the moment, right? But it still bugs me a little bit every now and then. - Did you ever have that like, treated or looked at, or you just kind of like, eventually heal. Um, I honestly, I didn't know if, you know, it was like a month later. I asked my trainer, I'm like, uh, this is still bothering me. Like what, what's going on? He's like, yeah, you broke your sternocleavicular joint. I was like, well, you never told me this comes together. Yeah. Like you never told me that. And he's like, well, there's nothing we could do about it anyway. And I knew you could play through it. So it's like, well, this has sucked for like a month. But, uh, - I would have liked to have at least known. - Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the heads up. - Thanks for the do no harm. - Right. So other than that, I haven't, you know, I broke my fibia in half and I didn't know that was broke either. I just thought I had a deep Charlie horse in my calf and I had a hard time walking and I had this pad on it that, you know, you could, an extra pad that you could kind of see through your hockey sock and-- - How high up on it did you break it? - About mid, maybe two thirds of the way up. - Okay, so above the top of your skate? - Oh yeah, for sure. So I had an extra pad that I put on there and this is the difference between Canadian hockey and American hockey and it's a little, it can be a little sadistic and harsh up there across the border, but I was-- - Like playing through the pain kind of deal? - Kind, well I was skating You know, the other team's bench on a shift, another guy was skating behind me on a line change and he was done and he just, he saw this bulge coming out of my sock that looked like an extra pad, right? So he knew something was up and he took a stick and he just two handed me right in the, in the fricking pad and I went down like, oh, I thought I was just starting to get a little bit better and so I think I was out for the rest of the game and and then I went and got an x -ray on it because I like this has been like Two or three weeks. It's not getting better And then this guy just two handed it and it's really hurting. Does he re break it effectively? I'm not really sure what happened, but but I don't think he re broke it I think it was already broken it was starting to it already been starting to heal and and so when I had the x -rays And I said yeah, you're your legs broke. I'm like well like what do you mean like a hairline fracture or was like, no, it's like broken, it's full on broke. And, and so I had these x -rays and I'm like, oh my God, like, can you stitch it up? Right. And so I go back and tell the teams like, oh, your leg's not broken. Like, no, I got the x -rays, like. Still not broken. And I showed it to him like, holy shit, like you've been walking on this like no cast, nothing for like three, four weeks. And like, I can't believe that your leg literally, it's a complete fracture. And I don't know just kind of so did you how long did you give it? Are you I gave it another couple more weeks? I actually Got off of it. There's nothing they could do at that point. I just needed to rest it So I gave it another two or three weeks and yeah, that's all you get that was it So time to get back to it. So was your style of play when you got to Michigan? Is that an NCAA style player or did they have to sort of say Bob? Bob we don't do that here. Well, you know like I fought a lot in juniors and after college and college they kind of frown on that and you get you know suspended you know your first fight you get one game second fight you get two games you know third fight you're kind of done for the year so. Seriously? Yeah so I would always kind of find my way into one or two a year just to kind of knock the rust off and make sure I wasn't letting the skills, you know, get too far away from me, and it just happened. And there was one that, you know, it ended up being a pretty well -known one with our Michigan -Michigan State, where we had kind of a bench clearing brawl at the end of the Kind of, yeah. That's the one that I've seen on YouTube. Yeah. Everyway, I always talk about that one. They're like, "Oh, I saw that one." And... Didn't the ref ax only get involved in that? Yeah, he tried breaking it up a little prematurely, we weren't really, or I wasn't quite ready to kind of settle down. - It wasn't done. - I was still looking for anybody wearing green at that point. - What touched that off, by the way? - So... - Is it just the rivalry itself? - It was just the rivalry, it's built up so much, right? And it's such an intense game and an intense rivalry and you really, you eat, breathe, sleep it for four years at Michigan, and so you literally hate each other. I mean, to this day, the only thing green in my closet is my camis, and I need them for my Navy job, other than that, I don't have anything green. - So it's a real hate. - It's a real hate, right, and so one of our guys got hit at the end of the game. - Like checked hit, kind of? - Yeah, hit from behind. - A little dirty? - Yeah, it was a little dirty, and we were at their rink, and they had just up their rank, they had to do a bunch of renovations. It was the grand opening, reopening, and obviously they're going to save that for the Michigan game and make it a big deal. And we went in, we shut them out two to nothing. And I was actually in the penalty box with a guy because we were getting into it, obviously a couple of minutes earlier. And so the game ended and the penalty box guys opened the doors and we went out and it right away, it just started getting squirreling. - Wait, so your penalty had elapsed? - It didn't elapsed, the game had expired. - Oh, so this is all at the end? - We were still in the box, if the game hadn't ended, we still would have been in the box. - Just watch it. - So we went out and I didn't know at the time, I was just going to defend my buddy, I was gonna go get in the face of a couple of guys that had just hit him. And the guy that was in the box with me was chasing me around the rink and he was he was you know I was trying to just get away from him because I wanted to get somebody else and he wouldn't leave me alone and I finally I just turned around and I just you know smacked them pretty good and yeah and dropped the gloves and went at it and my helmet was I don't know if I didn't have a buckle to it came off pretty quick and his was his was still on and did you help him get that off eventually yeah so I was yanking on it and it had a bolted on pretty good. And so he was, you know, he was able to get a few shots in on me cause I didn't have my helmet and I was trying to get his off and I couldn't get it. And then finally I just said, oh, that I'm gonna start throwing. And so I started banging his helmet. I gave him a good uppercut in the first one and knocked his face mask off his helmet and then got a few other ones in and then the ref got in. I was just getting ready to get going. That's when the engine just turned and So the ref got in and I really wasn't too pleased with him for interfering at that point. Well, that was, he must have been a new ref or something like that. I think he knew it was time to get involved. Yeah, 'cause he's like, this kid's getting hot. So, yeah, so what things happen, it's fun and, you know. It's part of the game. Part of the game and my buddy Bill, who's coaching here, Linda Wood, he actually coached with him at Michigan Tech And they used to give him a bunch of crap about that. And he's a great coach and doing great things up in Lake State right now. And it's a small world, a small fraternity. And at some point, whether later on down the road, you're playing pro with somebody, or you get traded to another team, you play with guys, you play it against, and you end up being teammates. And really, everybody's cut from the same cloth, and you hate each other when you're on the Had you ever been, you know, let's say last year, back when you were playing hockey, getting to fight with some guy? Have you ever found yourself on a team with one of those guys? Yeah, actually, my first year in Sioux City, and I was the young kid and had to literally fight my way, literally, and earn, earn, you know, earn my way. Yeah. Earned my respect. And I was a young, I was six, just turned 17, and I was fighting all like the 19, 20 -year -old tough guys on all the different teams. - They're some big boys. - There's some big boys and some tough boys. And that year, our coach made a lot of trades. And I think we had six or seven guys that I fought on other teams that ended up being on our team at the end. Which was-- - How was that? - It was a great team 'cause we all played the same way. - It was a rough team. - By the end of the and nobody wanted to screw with us because we had, we had some pretty good, uh, tough home braids on the team, but trashers by the end of the season. Well, where I'm, where I'm going with this, cause I think your, your hockey journey is really awesome. And I know myself and all the, the St. Louis buddies always really enjoyed supporting and just the stories you would come back with when we couldn't be there, but - You love hockey, you love hockey. And hockey is changing as you're coming through. First of all, the stature of these guys is getting enormous. Like these guys, you know how recruiting can be. They're like, okay, we just gotta draw a line somewhere. If you're not over, you know, six, seven, it seems like these days, it's hard to get a look. - Right. - You know, as just at the Blues game the other night, these guys are Yeah, there was one guy that I was like you look normal. It was I think it's 26 Walker Mm -hmm. He looks like he's like a normal height and he's probably like six feet I don't know how tall he is, but yeah, he's a little he's a smaller guy But not many guys like that out there for sure So hockey is changing like dudes are like are getting really big and you know, I don't know the specifics That's just my observation from the outside But where I'm going and where I wanted to kind of take this conversation was last night, I was thinking through Bob gas off and you've done all these really admirable great things. What did I think was the coolest? And we're right at that juncture. I know you went and played after Michigan, you were recruited. Is it was it NHL minors basically? Yeah, was is that so what's that chapter? Because we're we're going as you you end up in the Navy after all this. So you graduated from Michigan. What happens at that moment? - So I was undrafted. So I was essentially a free agent. So I could have gone wherever I wanted. And then, so I talked to Chicago and then St. Louis obviously gave me the opportunity also, which was tough to pass up being from St. Louis and my dad played for the team. So I went to their rookie camp, played really well and did my thing, fought a little bit, played a good, solid, tough defensive game and ended up earning a spot on the AAA team. And then I also, I'd go down and play some games and about half and half with the AAA team and the AA team in Peoria. And then, but during my time at Michigan, I kind of got hooked up with some guys, one on my team or other athletes that were interested in doing Navy things and had a good friend mentor who had been involved with the SEAL team since Desert Storm time frame and as a doctor and he was a faculty advisor to the athletic department. So he knew all these athletes at Michigan that either, you know, he did some stuff with Top Gun before he went to do some stuff with the seal community. So he had a little collection group, if you will, of athletes at Michigan that either wanted to go fly in the Navy, go be seals or be docks either in the Navy or outside. And he was a great mentor for all of us. And that was something that I had actually been exposed to during my time in Sioux City. I had an uncle who was in the Navy in Vietnam. He flew and he had some seal buddies and he used to talk to me about some of their stuff and stories and he used to bring back some literature and stuff for me to read. So I was a little bit interested in that world but didn't know a lot about it. And then when I was at Michigan, I expressed interest in that after hockey. Obviously hockey was my life and didn't know. - So you're kind of playing being a little bit? - I'm just trying to figure out. I mean, I was, I think smart enough to know that, you know, like hockey doesn't last forever. I mean, Wayne Gretzky, the best player in the world isn't playing anymore, right? So at some point, you know, hockey ends and you got to figure out where you're going to do with the rest of your life, right? So not knowing what the timeline and that look like, that was something that had interest me as something that I was wanting to learn more about and considered and but didn't know where my hockey journey would take me. So, you know, through Michigan, that was, you know, those those aspirations were developed and honed. And that was more and more what I decided I want to do after hockey was done. So, so I was in the Blues Farm team the next year. 9 /11 happened, I was in Worcester. I remember when that happened, we were going to the rink And I remember going down in the lobby of the like a residence in this hotel suite place where eight or 10 of us were players were staying right down the street from the rink and saw on the TV in the lobby what you know one of the towers had been hit and went back up to my room and watch the second tower get hit and then went to practice. This you know I was like I got to go to practice. I went and our coach, Don Granado had family that worked down at the World Trade Center or in that area in New York. And so everybody was just like really, obviously unsettling a moment. Everybody for a generation remembers where they were, right? - Absolutely. - And so we didn't have practice that day. And because of my relationship with these other friends of mine at Michigan that were already going through the SEAL process. They were already actually SEALs. I was the younger guy, I was like the youngest one in what we call our Wolverine platoon. And so they were already going and I knew they were going down range, going to war. And so I went through that year, up and down in the minors doing my thing, working hard. And then, but it was tough knowing that I had guys that were really going to put themselves in harm's way and fight in a real war. And it was hard to-- - Here I am pushing a part of-- - Here I am playing hockey. And so I had that little bit of a conflict on what's important in life. And the next year, same thing was starting with the Blackhawks farm team and Norfolk. So you, different organization, different organization. Yeah. And, um, seeing Wilson was really stacked at the time and they won the president's trophy, you know, best team in the regular season. And it was just, you know, there's only so much opportunity. And timing is everything, you know, and, and so the conveyor belt, it stopped. Yeah. So if I was going to have a chance to play more, Chicago would have been a better, a better place opportunity. And, um, And so things were going well, and then they had a trade where they got a bunch of defensemen and you know Everybody kind of just starts getting shuffled down, right? So At that point I kind of had to make a hard decision with myself that you know, I wanted to go be a seal I was 24. I wasn't getting any younger and I had to you know make my peace with hockey and say I had a really awesome incredible run and it was you know, I wouldn't have changed anything, obviously with my father, you know, playing that was, you know, not just my family. What we did, it was not what I did, but it was also my connection with him too. So it was really hard to step away from that. But I realized that, you know, all good things come to an end and what are you gonna do after? And I felt like I had something else, you know, pretty big and substantial that was, you know, calling to go do after that's um let's say really exactly how I remember it which was from from my perspective as you were going through that time period I really remember that conflict you were having the reason that things so interesting because it's such a massive life pivot which is uh you know you've been a hockey guy this is this bob gas off place hockey so you've got an identity thing, but you also have the reality of like, what am I doing? I'm in the miners. I remember you having feelings of like, you know, I just don't know if, if these guys are going to do what I want to be doing and is hockey. I just remember having a conversation with you. Like, I feel like you, we had the nine 11, you, you had the pull of that and that your buddies, I remember are out there downrange. And you're sort of kind of, like you said, coming to peace with your hockey life. And it was amazing. You just made this decision. Fuck it. I'm going. It is such like a bright line to me in the history of you, Bob Gasov, of in the decisiveness. I was aware of the connection with you, I was aware of like, man, this guy's been traveling the world or, you know, you know, North America to play this game. And now bang, right? He's going here. Yeah. And so do you remember the moment you were like, fuck it, I'm going. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, maybe not the exact to find moment, but I remember, I remember that period of time where I was and, and I had left Norfolk and drove up to see a buddy Kevin Magnuson who's a Michigan teammate of mine and he was working in Washington DC for one of the senators and spent a few days with him and then and then drove home and and just had a lot of time to kind of reflect right and and that's kind of when it said all right I'm gonna do this and and if I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it right and that I had I had to be all in making that decision certainly could have made another decision you know fortunate to have you know family business back home which would have been you know easy and and that kind of come back and step into that role but I wasn't wasn't ready you know I needed I needed to do something else I needed to you know being somebody who had been a part of a team his whole life It just seemed like the right thing to do and certainly the right time with post -9 /11. I wanted to do it initially, it was 9 /11 hadn't happened, but this is a team, this is my type of an environment and after 9 /11, it just more of an impact and a purpose, and it just made sense. If I was going to do it, I was going to be 100 % all in and you have to be going into that lifestyle, but it was tough just leaving my whole, literally my whole identity and starting from scratch with no guarantees. It was scratch. It was scratch. Right? It really was. So, they don't care who you are, where you came from, I mean, you're a no -name, nobody and having to, you know, build your own reputation again and work hard and, you know, as an officer, you know, be a leader and lead your guys. They don't care about hockey. They don't give two shits. They literally don't care if you can skate. Yeah. I mean, at all. Right. I mean, you brought a lot with you. But so when you made the decision, was there a feeling of relief like, okay, I can put down all that noise in my head? I mean, you picked up another set of things, but there really wasn't time to process. And honestly, it, you know, retrospect, maybe maybe that was a good thing. And maybe that help make my transition away from hockey, you know, easier than it should have been. I know a lot of people have a hard time transitioning, you know, from the sport, whether they make it to pro or not. That's what you've done your whole life. It's your identity. It's who you are. And so when you leave, you know, a lot of guys, some, you know, and a lot of instances, stay in the game in some way, shape or form through coaching through scouting through, you know, Um, and it's, but it's a very hard transition and growing up with seeing a lot of my, my, you know, guys that play with my dad and, you know, basically everybody from then to now and, you know, seeing so many guys play their whole life and the transition is difficult, but um, and it, it, it was for me, um, for a second, but I didn't have a lot of time to dwell on it because I really had to focus on, on something pretty major and big, um, that I didn't have time to feel sorry for myself or worry about it or have that kind of maybe that separation. Well, you had that whole other feeling of, uh, I'm about to step on the ice, right? You know, like the, here you go again, you're stepping into the big arena of, of going to what you got commissioned off OCS, right? How, how do, I mean, I don't know if that's a bunch of detail, but how do you go from like, okay, I'm dropping my skates to now I'm going to OCS. - Yeah, it's, you know, I wanted to go in as an officer and the only way you do that is by going to the Naval Academy or ROTC or through Officer Cannon School. And that's the smallest, it's the most, I mean, going through the Naval Academy has its own incredible challenges and is a hell of a process that they have to go through. For the OCS piece, there's only 10 slots a year for officer can at school seals. And those 10 slots back then, I don't know if it's different now, but so you just you somehow were able to gain access to go to OCS, which is a large pool of people. And then from that point, 10 will be able to go into the seals. So but that 10 is they have a program, they used to have a program called Seaman to Admiral where they would take already enlisted SEALs at what we're gonna go put an officer packet in to get their commission and they would go into officer candidate school. So about five slots went to that program and then so there was only a remaining five for guys like me that were just off the street and there's a lot of people that for those, for those spots, obviously, how many like give me a sense of, I mean, with thousands, probably high hundreds, thousands. I mean, and they're all top, you know, they're all Bob gas, high school, Stanford, you know, division one wrestlers, you know, lacrosse swimmers, kick the shit out all of them. And so you have to put your packet in that's that stands pretty tall. And but I was working on doing that for the years, leading up up to that I was kind of doing the right things and doing things I needed to do to be the type of leader and person that I would have an application that when I put it forward, my thought process and philosophy was I'm not gonna put an application and say hope that I get picked. My application will be such that they're gonna have to say, how do we not take this guy, right? So I'd just, I'd done a lot of things and through my mentorship through my friends, and that were prior to me going through, I felt like I was pretty prepared, but I spent a year, you know, I'd say getting out of shape, which I was playing for a hockey, so I wasn't out of shape, but I was spending a year getting out of hockey shape into seal shape, and, you know-- - I remember that, you invited me to go swimming a couple times, and you know, we were both fine swimmers, but you were talking about something else. You're like, here's the out today. And I was like, Bob, this isn't normal. Yeah, like people don't swim. Like Katie Ledecky. I mean, she she had struggled with his workout. And you went from what I would call a recreational swimmer. Yeah, to a swimmer. Right. And that would that was crazy. You did change your body. That was a hard that was the hardest thing for me. Like I grew up, you know, with a pool and swam, but I never was on a swim team. And that was the hardest thing I had had to really do, and two of my friends that were at Michigan prior to me were both water polo players and high school swimmers and whatnot, and just phenomenal guys in the water. And I remember I had a real come to Jesus moment because I had left my hockey career. And this is November. This is two or three months after I had left. And I was training back home. And I went out there to see them and they were getting ready to do their, they were doing their work up to go deploy, you know, the combat. - Are you at a Coronado? - I'm at Coronado, yeah. So I went out with them and I'm swimming, doing master swim, swim training and, you know, five in the morning at the Clayton pool with the master swim team and great workouts and really putting me through the ringer and doing what I needed to do. And so I went to visit them in San Diego and I And I want you to come swim with us. It's like, OK, so I went swimming and we did an ocean swim. Well, it learned real quick when you swim in a nice 60 degree, 70 degree pool with lane lines that keep you going straight. And it's a lot different environment than when you're out there and you're swimming with waves and currents and there's no lane lines. And so a two mile swim can be a two and a half mile swim pretty quickly with the drifter or whatever. If you're not a good guider and when there's all types of waves and you're swallowing salt water and you're getting the shit beat out of you. It was miserable and it was really bad. And this is, you're not even in it yet. Like this is out there with you. So this was, and the conditions were really bad that day. This is when you were still living in St. Louis. I was in St. Louis. So you go out and just get a taste of this. I go out there and it's like, Let's go, let's, you know, put me through the ringer and it was really bad surf day. We were like the only ones in the surf and it was like just bad weather conditions. It was kind of the winter -ish, which is, you know, it can be a little sketchy. And so we went out and they took me on the swim and I just about drowned. I mean, I was miserable. - Seriously. - I mean, I was just, I was puking. They were pissed at me 'cause I was swimming so slow and I was stopping. - Yeah, this is for me. And then I was like holy shit, and I had a real come to Jesus. I'm like, what the fuck did I get myself into? Oh, I can say that yeah, you can now Wait, so you so you say what what did I get myself into at this point really just OCS, right? Right. Well, I wasn't even OCS I was working on my packet which takes about a year to get through the process Did that actually shake you a little bit? It did. It was like, holy shit. What What did I get myself into, and is this what I really want to do? Because you didn't enjoy that. I hate the ocean. And I get seasick, like the best of them, which is kind of funny. Everybody's like, "Oh, you're a seal, and you get seasick?" There's actually a lot of my buddies that got seasick. But I said, "You know what? This is what I'm going to do, and I'm all in." And so that was and I made the decision that I needed to move from St. Louis to San Diego and start training out there in the ocean. - And in the element. - In the element, running on the sand 'cause you know, 7 -10 mile runs and soft sands a lot different than, you know, running the 10K at Forest Park on the right path. - Yeah, well they're both impossible. - So I went out there, so I got a lot better at it, a lot more acclimated, and I pushed through it and my packet got accepted and I went to OCS and went to Buds. And I puked my way through training and puked my way through a lot of times when we were on the water going through as a SEAL, active duty. And but that's, you know, it was a lot of fun. - I mean, tell me about like, so you get through OCS and they say, okay, you can go try buds, which is basic underwater demolition school, correct? Yep. OK, so you get out to Coronado. And I mean, like you said, this is like you're back walking on this big ice again. You don't know anybody, probably. And just tell me, walk me through that moment of like, holy shit, I am actually now on this stage. And that must have been something to be like, I have a challenge in front of me. I'm just at the starting line. I've done OCS. I've gotten in shape. I've done all this just to get to the starting line. And you know, statistically speaking, a certain number are going to roll. And some of it is just bad luck. Like you just snap an an ankle or, you know, so sometimes, you know, someone's toughness is just going to get outmatched by some really unlucky thing that could occur. Yeah. You know, it would that truly would make it impossible to continue and then maybe re up for next year, whatever. But you're on this stage, and you got, you know, I've seen, you know, I've seen movies, I don't know how close it is, but it's an intense environment, let's say. What What is that moment like? - Yeah, it's a pretty good kick in the nuts. Like you said, there's a lot that goes into it just to get on the starting line. And then once you're on the starting line, it has over 80 % attrition rate, right? - Is it okay? - So yeah, and it's, you know, we like to have the guys that don't make it quit because you wanna get rid of the guys that can't hack it right but to your point you said I mean that things happen it's it's it's it's a rigorous very physically demanding harsh program that you know no normal person or doctor or physician would probably recommend or somebody it's six you know a little more than six with the pre -indoc phase and and then you go into advanced training which is another four months a couple extra months if if you're an officer, 'cause you gotta do some officer stuff in there. So it's basically like a year to get through it. - But you show up and you just walk into this facility and is it go, go, go, go? Like it's on? Like no time to think like. - Yeah, it's kind of crazy. And you know, the instructors are, if you end up being a SEAL, that it's your peer group, right? So you, it's just part of the thing that you do. If you go to a team, you go do deployment or two, and then you'll might go out of that cycle and go be an instructor. And then you go back to a platoon. So when I went to my platoon, I had a handful of guys were my instructors that put me through buds. And so the standards are very, very strict. And I was an officer and there's certain military protocol that goes along with your instructor staff, you know, they still have to kind of recognize that. Recognize you. So they're like, hey, you're not putting out. You look like a piece of shit, sir. You know. Oh, yeah. Right. And but they're but they're making sure you hold the standard because they know when you go to the team and they may be on your team with you. And that actually happened in my team. And you're their boss. They're not going to respect you. You're their boss, right? So as an officer, you have to be in the top of all the runs, the swims, all the PT, your academics, your die physics, all that stuff. And so for me, it was actually, I found it kind of rewarding and in a way made it easier because I didn't have time to worry about myself and my own misery and my physical just being beat down and my mental being beat down because I was too worried about my guys, getting my guys through training, taking care of my guys, taking care of the big picture, taking care of the team, which is what it's all about. - And I know it's not realistic that you would have ever quit, but were there ever moments like this is hard? - Oh, no question. I mean, yeah, you're in Hell Week and Hell Week is just a part of training. I mean, there's a lot of other times post Hell Week where like this really sucks and it'd really be nice to just say, Yeah, I'm done. I'm gonna go and take a warm shower and get a get a hot meal, but you know, you know, that's not Can you get over the hump and buds or is the whole thing like there's no hump like you there's no hump It gets harder and harder and harder. I mean your body's breaking down I would think everybody always, you know, thinks hell week is like the big hump You know hell week is like week three or four whatever it is now. They've changed over time a little bit, but that's that That is definitely a gut check and a big phase where a lot of guys quit, but it doesn't get easier. It gets harder. Your run times, your swim times, they get faster and you're going longer. I mean, third phase you're doing a 14, 15 mile ruck run with a hundred pound rucksack. And I mean, you're just kicking your but left and right, it's just what you do. - And there's some point I would imagine when, how many people start 200 or? - So we started, so this was kind of like post -9 /11 and the Bush era, they were really trying to expand the amount of seals that we had and the classes used to start with like 100, 115 and they end up getting like 15, 20, maybe 30. And so the thought process was, well, if we double the size of the class, we'll double the size of what we get out on the other side, right? And that just doesn't work that way. So they were doubling the class. So I think we started with probably like 238 guys. And I just remember, because I had to take muster for everybody as the number two in charge. But we'd still end up with the same amount of guys on the back end I think we graduated about 40 in our class, but a lot of we had a pretty large roll -in roll -in class guys that were hurt that Wait about 20 guys that rolled in so of the original 238 we had 24 guys that were original so when do you start to get strength from the fact they're like, okay It looks like our team starting to form Like during Buds, you're like, okay, we got like 43 guys here now. Are you starting to get strength of like, okay? I'm starting to see the team emerge. Yeah, I mean, I get how it is a big one Yeah, you know, they always say, you know the first first couple months certainly certainly pre -hell week Don't don't make friends because they're not gonna be around long I trust them right at the same time Yeah, you got to get through it you got to get through and you're you're working in your boat crews You know with your boat or you know, log PT and you can't do that on your own. You need your, you guys, you're right and the guys you're left to get through all that. So, but after that, the drop off isn't so great, but there's still a lot of attrition and guys that aren't making the cut for whatever reason. And it's a selection process and instructors are pretty good at seeing, you know, what guys are team players, what guys are, you know, rowing in the same direction with everybody else and what guys are, you know, not in it for the right reasons. - So - They may facilitate them dropping out in some ways, but they may ride them a little bit. - Things have a way of working themselves out. - So I know we're coming up on time, Bob, and what I want to kind of take as eventually here quickly is at some point during SEALS, you must have thought I've made the right decision. I'm so glad I did this, and I'm so glad I'm not on the ice right now. You know, and you probably did a lot of self talk thinking that get yourself there But do you remember when you're like, hey, you know, I'm really glad I did this. Yeah, I mean it all through Yeah, you just don't know until you Come to graduation if you're gonna make it through because you know literally there's guys that have gone up to a week before And didn't didn't graduate so once you graduate and then you're moving on you're on you're in a little bit more comfortable place, but there's never room for complacency. I mean, it's even, you know, couple of my buddies that have gone to some of our, you know, like advanced teams, which, you know, are more publicly known now and in the news now than they used to be. And those guys would say, "Hey, for like..." Yeah, Every year I've got in the teams that buys me like maybe one or two weeks of credibility. And you have to get up and earn it every day. And there's no days off and we have a saying, you know, in the teams, once you earn your tried and you still got to get up and earn your tried in every day. I mean, that's great. You made it through Bud's. You made it through advanced training. Maybe you got some deployments, but there's always opportunity to slip and fall behind and not be the team player you want to be. But as far as your life decision is concerned, you've left one thing and gone to another and there must have been, you know, you ignored it. But there's like, I hope I've made this right decision along the way. And what I'm drilling down on is the idea of this pivot you made, you did so seamlessly from, you know, from where I sit and where others sit. It's like I just went and crushed that. And it was something to really observe and something that I remember and I think about as I do things, like just don't just put yourself in a good position and hit the gas, you know? And just put your plan in action and go, you know? And I just thought that as I was thinking about our discussion today, like that's, I think, is amongst the most impressive things I've seen you do and I was like, well, what's Bob gas? I was real talent is the same thing you did when you got out of active duty, which is that's one of the hardest transitions a human can make is coming back to St. Louis to like sort of this very tranquil existence. And your buddies aren't here. I was like, maybe Bob's real gift, this his ability to transition to this new set of life circumstances. I know it none of that's easy, but the way that you do it, I think is really admirable. Well, you get to a point where you have to make that decision and make sure that it's principled and you have good validation behind your decisions that you make. And then I think that helps be able to buy in. Um, again, you know, nine, 11, that was a big deal. Um, going to, going to, you know, the seals and, and, uh, I wouldn't have changed it for anything in the world. It was definitely the right thing to do. And I had to be all in on doing it. Um, and then when, when, when I had, uh, I had my son, uh, Bobby, I wasn't planning on having, um, kids that early and I, you know, growing up without my, my father and I already lost, First, a lot of really good close friends from combat. Once I had my son, that wasn't something that I wanted to be doing. Right. That's a risky line of work. Yeah, so that was another hard decision transition for me, but it was the right thing to do for my family and to be there and to make sure I was a dad for them and in a way that my father didn't have the opportunity to do. And so it made the transition, I guess, easier. It's never always easy, but it's, you know, it's the right thing. And so when you, when you make good decisions based on principle and good foundation of perspective, I think it's a lot easier to really be all in and hit the gas, right? Yeah. Well, I'm going to get you out of here, Bob, but really, Really is admirable and I'm glad that we that you indulge this conversation drill down on the this pivot and your ability to to kind of Find your new teams in life and one thing I think you've also do really well as you stay in touch with your teams You know, which is you know as life gets busy and we're all sort of getting pulled in all these directions It's always pop my attention at how good you are keeping these your spheres of life Yeah, of life, sort of in your pillion room together. So thanks for coming today, man. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the time, Shep. You bet, man. All right.