s2e7 FINAL ===

[00:00:00] Hi, Sarah. Um, we just watched episode seven of season two. Just like, just buried. Uh huh. Wow, dude. Wow, dude. Reversals. Reversals aplenty. Crises of conscience? Crises of conscience. I was going to say, if you had to Ooh. Uh, say, is there a theme? Let me explain, let me explain. There is no time. Let me sum up.

Sorry, that's uh, That's Irigo Montoya from, um, Yes, yes, yes. [00:01:00] Let me explain, let me explain. There is no time. Let me sum up. Um, Amazing. Um, Yeah, what would the theme here be? It seemed, would be Crisis, uh, Crisis of Conscience, yeah? It feels like it, it feels like this is in many ways the episode where Many characters, not just the Fox River Eight, come to, or I guess Seven now, come to grips with Who they actually are instead of who they want to believe they are.

Yes, I think that's, uh, maybe not crisis of conscience then. It's kind of like Well, cause Reality check? Well, uh, Michael has this line, said, Oh, uh, Westmoreland said this thing to me, There's no such thing as an ex con. So it's a question of like, what are you essentially? Right. And I think that, uh, Tweener's having that moment.

Mahone. Mahone's having that [00:02:00] moment. Kellerman's having that moment. Mm hmm. Michael and Lincoln, Sucre. Michael and Lincoln are having that moment. Sucre's having that moment. Uh, it's really interesting. They're all And I think what's fun is the answers we get are not necessarily what we expect. No, in some ways, like There's something very honest about the episode, which is, we've tricked you into rooting for bad guys.

Not bad guys, bad guys. This is a funny comparison, but my, uh, my childhood best friend, Christina, works in, um, uh, industrial organizational psychology, and she, we first moved to New York. She made a big deal about, like, when somebody tells you what they do for a living. She was like, people in New York are often not honest.

As in someone will tell you they're an actor when what they are is [00:03:00] a bartender. She's like, now when I call them on it, they get mad, but I'm not being rude. I'm just saying like, if you spend 40 hours a week bartending and that's how you make your money, you're a bartender. And the sooner you get honest about that, the sooner you'll probably get around to the job of becoming an actor and it mm-hmm

It always stuck with me because I thought it was a really interesting approach to things. Anyway, my point is, this seems to be the episode where they're like, You know, if it quacks like a criminal, and it walks like a criminal, We might be criminals. Right, and I think, I mean, I think Sucre's is the most, Mahomes is the kind of plottiest twist.

Which is, you think he's confessing to one thing, but he's actually lying. Yes. And then confesses to something else that reveals that he's psychotic, a different part of him. Is he psychotic though? Because he also says, I got nothing against [00:04:00] you kid, but they do. So for the first time to me, I was like, wait, wait, who's they?

Who is he working? Whose agenda is he serving when he, by the way, spoiler alert, kills Tweener. Oh, he says, but they do. I got nothing. I thought he said, what are you doing? And I thought he said, what they do. Oh, he says, but they do. I see. But they do. I got nothing against you, kid, but they do. Oh, yeah. The company wants him dead.

I think so. Which feels like to me, the first moment where I'm aware that Mahone and the company may have business together. Yeah, yeah. And Governor Tancredi dies. Tweener dies. And the implication with Governor Tancredi is from, from uh, Reggie Lee, whose character name I can't remember now. Oh man. Um. I can't either all of a sudden.

Damn it! Is that they killed him. And they're [00:05:00] gonna kill Sarah. Well, and then Sarah walks into her apartment and she's being set up to look like she overdosed. I mean. Right, so they're killing them both. And then. Yeah. The most interesting, surprising thing is the police officer who's being held hostage is saying to Sucre, do the right thing, do the right thing, do the right thing, which is basically, let us go.

Turn yourself in. He takes that to a different, that's not what we think he's going to do, is turn the gun on them, right? I mean, I didn't see it coming. I, I, it feels like the dots were connecting off camera are, the only way I get away with this is with five million dollars, not my share of five million dollars.

Uh, it's not, it's not I'm gonna hold you here until the cops come. Oh. I don't think so. I don't think so. That's not how I took it. I think we'll find out next week. Wait, before we go on, should [00:06:00] we, like, introduce the episode? We, like, dove into our Yes, okay, okay, welcome! Ha ha ha ha ha! Hi, everybody! You just jumped into the middle of Paul and I talking about the episode.

Uh, yeah, we're like five minutes in. That's alright. Um, and by the way, quick welcome to, uh, those of you who are watching us on YouTube. Oh yeah, man. is new this season, and I, I like the fact that this was such an international show. I like the fact that people are able to use YouTube to translate the show into their language.

So, again, uh And you can see us. Drop us a comment. Yeah, that may or may not, like Well, Sarah I don't know if that's a plus or minus. Sarah says I'm working a, uh, Deadliest Catch vibe. Mm hmm. Yeah, but it, like, the Adidas on your cap kind of belies that. Yeah, and maybe the glasses. Like, from one side You're Deadliest Catch and from the other side you're like Silver Lake Hipster.

Um, Arrrgh! Now all you need is a parrot and a hoop earring. Um, Okay, so, you [00:07:00] want to tell people who will be joining us this week? Um, Our very own Lane Garrison. tweener, David Pichalkas. Uh, we'll Uh, Polskis? What? Uplskiss? Uplskiss. Who's David Pichelkus? I don't know. Is that somebody you went to high school with?

Probably. David Uplskiss. Uh, Lane Garrison. Um, we have so much to talk to Lane about and he will be our guest today. He will. Um. And small PSA, he was supposed to be here, like, literally today, but he had to get on a plane and fly to a job doing, uh, an episode of Mayor of Kingston. So, um, we're actually going to be, uh, talking about the episode and then bringing him on another date.

I'm just saying that because you're going to notice that when Lane shows up we're wearing different clothes, yeah. And to be weird. Well, we could wear the same, okay. I'll never remember. No, me neither. Cause it's like two weeks from now. I'll be like, what hoodie did I? But, anyway. Before we welcome Lane in the future, Yes.

Let's do our Calliston Index. Uh, [00:08:00] Okay. And talk about the details of this episode. Let's go. Sarah. So, Buried is the name of this episode, 207. Uh, first aired October 2nd, 2006. It was directed by the amazing returning director from Season 1, Sergio Mimica Ghazan, um, who Paul also shadowed. Uh, and it was written by Seth Hoffman.

And this was Seth's first ever episode of Television as a Writer. So for Season 1, he was the writer's assistant, uh, on the show. And then he was a staff writer for season two up until this point. And this is his first ever credited script. So, congratulations to Seth because this was amazing. Seth has also gone on to have an enormous career in television.

Um, we'll also talk about it later, but he's another Dartmouth alumni, and I didn't know him in school, but I knew him afterwards, and there's a whole thing about a character in here. Anyway, um, moving on. We'll get to that. As usual, um, Episode 207 aired at 8 p. m., uh, against Wife Swap on ABC, Deal or [00:09:00] No Deal on NBC, and The Class on CBS.

By the way, I think Season 1 we aired at 9. But I think season two we were at eight. Anyway, um, against that competition, drew nearly nine million live viewers, 8. 99 million live viewers, which was up half a million from episode 206. That's a lot of, 500, 000, okay. Okay, here's the big, juicy recap because quite a lot happens in this episode.

So, I'm gonna read it in my quick voice. In your void where Prohibited voice, this is where they call, this is what they called on scandal. Scandal. Pace. Ooh, okay. Go like, you do a scene, you do a scene, and then they go, okay, good. Now scandal pace. Really? Yeah. I mean those scripts were 80 pages long. Seventy pages long sometimes literally literally a lot would get cut but then there was a lot of fast talking anyway Okay, take it away Paul go cliffhanger at the end of the last episode was a police officer walking up to [00:10:00] the house where Michael and the gang are Digging in the garage for Westmoreland's money Well that police officer turns out to be the daughter of Jeanette Owens the woman who owns the house and who teabag Currently has at knife point both women are locked up Down and the team keeps digging.

But when they hear that LJ has been exonerated and will be released, Lincoln leaves to go get his son, which unfortunately is trapped. I'm gonna go. My son Kellerman has set to capture Lincoln. The rest of the team successfully finds the money only to have re pull a gun on them back with Tweener. He appears to have turned rat yet again.

Agreeing to lead to Maho. Agreeing to lead Mahone to the house where the gangs found the money, but in one of the now famous, wrong address, prison break Mr. X, also known as the Silence of the Lambs, he instead shows up at Deborah Jean's house, charmingly asks her to wait for him. Mahone thinks this is adorable, just kidding, he's furious and entirely kills Tweener.

R. I. P. David Apalskis. And because one major death isn't enough, Dr. Sarah arrives at her father's home to find him also dead, apparently, by suicide, R. I. P. Governor [00:11:00] Tencredi, the great John Heard. Sarah finds a key in his possession, which will be important later, Kellerman blames Kim for how he handled the governor, and reveals that the same fate is planned for Sarah, and in lighter news, Haywell starts building a boat.

And gets a dog, apparently. Um, alright. By the way, very, very well done. And I will try and move through this in Scandal Voice 2, although I was never on Scandal. In pop culture, earlier this week, Facebook opened to anyone at least 13 years old with a valid email address, and that all went great for democracy and free speech.

Also this week, acclaimed TV series Friday Night Lights premiered, starring Kyle Chandler and Connie Britton. also gave us Jesse Plemons, who I think is one of the best and most underrated actors alive right now. And Taylor Kitsch, who does super well and is great to look at and I think is probably super talented, but I haven't seen him since Friday Night Lights in anything.

And sorry about that, Taylor. I'll try and get on that. Um, and personally, that first season actually is one of my favorite seasons of television ever. It was Oh. So brilliant [00:12:00] on the politics side. On October 4th, two days after this episode aired, Julian Assange founded WikiLeaks publisher of leaked documents and nonprofit media organization.

Assange would go on to spend 14 years in prison. Embassy confinement and house arrest over these leaked documents fighting extradition to the U. S. Earlier in the way, that's now the plan that's now the plot for season six of Prison Break. Exactly. And earlier in the week, the U. S. Senate approved the rebuilding of 700 miles of fence along the nation's southern border with Mexico, which, you know, ended all the immigration controversy.

And let's move on. Job done. Let's please move on. We're gonna take a quick break and we will come back and we'll talk about the episode. All right, let's take a quick break.

We're back. So let's talk about the episode. We are back. Um, and because what we notice is that when we interview people we often talk generally about who they are and their time on the show and not specifically about the episode. So, some episode specific things. [00:13:00] Yes, yes, yes. We took a lot of notes and then we'll get to, then we'll get to uh, Lane.

Well, and this was also, this was the episode where you trailed, right? So you were, you were here for everything from prep to post. What she means by trailed is when you're interested in directing, um, or just want to annoy your compatriots. Uh, you say, oh, I'm interested in directing, can I trail? And what that means is not just on the days of shooting, but that means you do prep preparation with them, too.

That means you go scout the locations, you look at the casting tapes, you sit in on, uh, my favorite was location scouting, tech scouting. And then when, uh, but the, The thing I learned the most here and I think about it all the time was the production meetings, which is when you go into a room with the writer, the producers, the director, and then the department head, every department head, and you say, okay, what's the bag of money going to look like?

Okay. Are we building this? Are we finding a [00:14:00] location for this or are we doing it on set? Okay. How deep does the hole need to be? And don't forget like in something like this, you know. They're not digging the hole, really. So it's like, okay, in scene four, how deep does the hole need to be? In scene nine, how deep does the hole need to be?

In scene 12, and then it's like, well, we can't build it that deep because we can't get the light in there. And how are we going to do, do, do, do, doots? Yeah. It's problems. Now I want to say that I, Production meetings are all about solving problems, and I want to say, for those of you listening, that, um, when you say that trailing a director means going to prep, I need to give you props for that.

What? I guess. I've recently found out that there are actors who want to learn how to direct who do not trail prep. Okay, well. And there is, I think, nothing, in some ways, nothing more important. Correct. Well, editing. I mean. Yes, although worst comes to worst, your [00:15:00] editor and showrunner will edit your episode and they cannot get out of the park.

If you don't solve the problems and prep, you're not going to make the episode. So, this is just a little shout out to the fact that, like, when you said you wanted to direct, you were like, no, I really do, and you really did, and you did actually. I also think that, uh, as an actor, you're observing directors all the time.

You're watching how they shoot and why they shoot, but what you're not seeing is what got them there, and then what you're not seeing is how we putting this together later. So I felt like I learned. Yeah, sitting behind the monitor is educational, but not as educational as well. And for instance, that pill bottle of the Mefapristone, um, which good God, I think is now like, what is Mefapristone?

Is that the, is that the pregnancy medication? It's what she said. Yeah, I think it's what she said she needed to take. Um, and I might, I might be getting that wrong because anyway, there's a pill bottle that the, the, the police woman who is being held captive [00:16:00] that Sucre is watching, um, that becomes a prop.

There would have been meetings for the size of the pills, how many pills, the name to put on the bottle, the doctor's name to put on the bottle, the size of the bottle, the whole, I mean all of those things. How many do we need? How many do we need? How are you gonna shoot it up close? Right. Does she need to be able to swallow them?

Does the actor have any allergies? Should it be pills or capsules? All of those things. Like there's so many decisions in a bottle that You know, you never really see it in close up. It's not featured. But you have to be able to shoot it in close up. Um, and one of the things that you mentioned came up in prep.

You were talking about the key. Yeah. Um, so when Sarah goes in and finds her father dead, she doesn't notice that a key falls out of his pocket and slides right next to her bag. And I was saying when we were doing the rewatch, I was super grateful for the way Sergio did that because it meant that In that moment, as [00:17:00] a character, I pick up my bag, the key is right there, I notice it.

I don't have to do some weird, false, like, look across the room, Hmm, my dad just died, what's that key? Which can be very eggy. Yes, I think, I remember the discussion being, Like, how, How is this gonna work? Does she go through his pockets? Is it in his, is it in his hand? I remember there being a disc, all this discussion and I thought Sergio was really great at protecting it not being eggy as you say, meaning kind of acty.

I think he just made, there was a lot of um, things pitched during the production meeting, but like, well, how does she get the key? I don't remember exactly what it was in the script if it was just in the pocket, but a lot of times the writers won't really go. Into crazy detail about that, they'll be like, she takes the key down, or she, sorry, she takes her father's body down and finds a key, da da da, and you're [00:18:00] like, well, is it in his pocket?

Is it in his hand? Is it in his shoe? Why would she be searching his body? Why would his hand be, like, is he trying to give her the key? So anyway, I thought, uh, there was a, a, a bunch of things. Because that can be an hour discussion on set, if it's not. Um, really well handled in prep. Um, so yeah, all the flowers to Sergio.

And also, you know, it's funny because That's exactly right. I realized I hadn't watched that episode before. And partly because I was I was really in my head about that scene of finding my father dead. It was It was one of those things that I read it and I was like, I have no idea how to do this. Um And there are a lot of reasons for that, that I'll get into in a second.

But what's funny is, in my memory, you were in that scene because you were there that day. And I remember Go ahead. It's so funny because I [00:19:00] I also remember being in a scene because I remember talking to John Hurd and having a long conversation with him about Cutter's Way in the kitchen of that house.

And I was like, well, I must have been in that scene. I remember having a conversation with you at lunch. And I think even going to you at a certain point, going Do we have it? I don't know if we have it because here's the thing. Okay, so crying on camera Is a really really lethal thing. I'm sure we've seen this said this before but really lethal thing to say in the script and it was something that I really felt insecure about and I remember asking you as we were shooting this I was like, I don't know how to respond to this also

My stepsister had Um, when I was in university, I didn't see it, but I read the episode and some part of me [00:20:00] just shut down and was like, I can't go near this because there's so much, you know, at that time, that would have not been, she died in 99. So this was not even 10 years later. Anyway, it just, it brought up a whole lot.

And I remember talking to you and I said, I don't know if I'm doing enough. And you said. You look like you've just been slapped across the face. Which feels like the right response. And I was so grateful for another actor because Sergio's amazing and he gives great notes. But like, I'd only worked with him one other episode before.

And like, I knew you and I trusted you and I, I trusted your work. And it was, I was really grateful. I think that, uh, one of the things that's hard about acting on film, Uh, and you learn is that because [00:21:00] it's not process based a lot of times acting wise. Like there's so much going into the production that you just need the actors to do their shit.

Like, you know, it's not a movie. You don't have four days to shoot an emotional scene. Right. And so a lot of things are, um, written and executed, um, with results oriented and not process oriented. So, instead of saying, Sarah sees her father and it crushes her and then the actor's like, oh, that means it could come out this way or come out, let's see what happens.

It'll say, hysterically cries or the dam bursts open and da da da da. And it's almost a visual Description and then I think as actors, it becomes an action like running across the room or he throws a glass or right? And then we get stuck with, [00:22:00] which is really hard. A death for an actor is this is what this is supposed to look and sound like, right?

Right. Well, and a lot of times if you're doing a sex scene or if you're doing a fight scene or you're doing, um, A driving scene. You're like, okay, this is what this is supposed to look and sound like. I can, I'm a pro. I can do that. But when it comes to something emotional, especially tears, because we're like, can you cry?

You're an actor. Can you cry? Uh, I think that it can be very, uh, confusing and it can really get, it can be difficult to execute. Um, organically, we will get into my version of this when we get into, uh, Kellerman's attempted suicide, right? Um, because I had a very similar problem. Um, I've learned a whole other set of things about this since we shot this, but what I thought was so great, I would've, I would've [00:23:00] done this scene so differently with the skill set I have now, tell me why.

Or, do not tell me what, tell me how. Again, I think part of it, like, I was carrying, I was carrying a lot of Dead Sister on my back. Yeah. Not to be too bleak about that, but, um, what I find is sometimes, yes, you want to connect to things emotionally, but there are some things as an actor that if you connect to because they're so intense in your own life, at least for me, my instinct can be that it shuts me down.

Then I'm just like, nope, nope, nope, nope. Can't, I can't walk into work with this. I can't carry my grief all day. So that's part of it, and to me what it felt like on the day and even re watching it is that it was more of a cerebral response than a visceral response. I think if I were directing me now, I'd be like, let's take it all the way down to your feet, and let's maybe even try a [00:24:00] little harder Um, to understand what you're seeing, like the, the beat that I think is missing is what the am I looking at?

Like, what, what, you mean? Like that. I do know what you mean. I just disagree. That's fair. Fair. I do. I think that what ended up there is not different than what you're talking about. Might have felt different but what reads to me The hands over the mouth like that shot. I love I love that. She's not out of control inconsolable.

It's she feels in shock to me and she feels like I said, I guess on the day slapped across the face. I mean, I just think especially I think we read these things and sometimes it pulls us out of the context of the show because we're like Um, I have this personal tragedy, I can connect [00:25:00] this to, this is the ultimate challenge of an actor to become super emotional, etc, etc.

And in fact, what happens on the day, if you can let it, is organic. And it felt very, in keeping with Sarah's character, Hm. It felt, It did feel a little surreal. It felt like she's trying to get her brain around what's happening and there is emotion coming out. Um, but she is staying on top of it. I love that when you come into the apartment later, you've obviously been crying.

Um, you know, yeah. Mascara is helpful. Mascara is super helpful, I don't think. I, I just don't think, I think that we, I don't, I just think as actors it's, it's a, it's a bit of a bugaboo when we get caught up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we get caught up. Also, I think sometimes those notes of, and the damn breaks, and they start hysterically crying, are more, are more for the studio and the network than they are for the actors.[00:26:00]

Like, I've often thought it would be really interesting to do actor drafts that are redacted from any. emotional, uh, that are, that are literally just the words on the page. Um, and you know, someday when I get to make my own movie or whatever, I'm curious to just play around with that and be like, I don't care what your response is.

Just make these words honest. Right, right, right. Or, or I need to, I need X response. I mean, that's also, you know, sure. It's filmmaking. It's like, um, but I agree with you. I think that, you know, I mean, the, my favorite actors are the one. Uh, when I hear them talking about it, they say, you open yourself up and if it comes, it comes and if it doesn't, that's a real response.

Now, I understand that that's usually in like an A24 movie and sometimes when you're on a show, they're like, we need you to cry now. Uh and uh and you just gotta do it. Right, and it's 100 degrees that it's in Dallas, and it's a 4am call, and you had to wait for 6 hours to get to your, [00:27:00] your meal penalty.

Yeah, um. I was on a show, uh, over in Rain Amos, where they were like, nope, it says in the script that one tear comes out of your left eye. Shut up. No, it wasn't me, it was somebody else. But they were like, this is really, this is what the, this is what the producers want. So put it in the CGI budget. I mean, they essentially, they did a thing, you know, they did a thing.

Right, right, right. Um, by the way, you know who was great at that was Robin Tunney. That shot was so good that they used it in the opening credits of the show for all of season one. tier? The one tier running down. I remember talking to her about it once and she was like, yeah, I thought that would be really effective for the scene.

I was like, you are so in control of your instrument. That's amazing. Um, do we, I'm sure we talked about this in season one, the Bryce Dallas Howard thing, the head tilt. thing. Like she knows how to, she showed a friend of mine that she could like, there are things you can do to make your eyes water, right?

Like there are things you can access in breathing. And she had this thing, she said she practiced it [00:28:00] for years, like as a kid in the mirror. Oh my God. And she could like fill up her eyes and then she knew that if she tilted one, like just the right amount, like one would go. It would just do the one. Wow, that is some serious Hollywood kid.

Well, any actor, anyone, anyone. That is wild. Alright, more to talk about. Anyway, I thought that was, I thought that was a beautifully played scene because I thought it was chilling and I feel like also given what we learn when she said, when she talks to the guy about like, he was not suicidal. That you're immediately, you're overwhelmed by the loss, but also you're suspicious.

And that that would undercut the kind of hysteria of it. And you're a medical professional who's like, all that stuff. So you didn't like him very much. Well, I mean he did just try and warn me, but yes, we had a, but in some ways, I mean not to get [00:29:00] too into the weeds, in some ways I think, That can actually exacerbate grief.

When somebody dies and it's like, Oh, we had so much shit to fix. Um, I thought there would be more time. I think is one of the saddest, most heartbreaking things to feel when somebody passes away. And then I only have one more thing that I wrote down. Is there anything else you wanted to A couple things.

Go ahead. No, I need to look up, so while you're, while you bring it up, this is homework I should have done earlier and I apologize, but I'm going to look up, um, who on earth the actor was. Oh, who plays the daughter cop. Who played the daughter because she was fantastic and I imagine by now she's got an incredible career and blah, blah, blah.

Um, I found this actor. Her name is Alexandra Lydon. L Y D O N? L Y D O N. She's But she's been acting consistently ever since. [00:30:00] She did three episodes of Prison Break, it says. Um. Oh, right. Because there's more to be done. They haven't left the house. There's more to be done. They haven't left the house yet.

She did, uh, five episodes of 24. I just got to say, if anybody is out there looking for a super dope actor, you should be looking at Alexandra Lydon because God, she was good in this. I think maybe we should talk to Lane. I think we should talk to Lane. All right. So, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with a change of clothes.

We'll be back with a change of clothes. With Layne Garrison. And, uh, Layne Garrison. Uh, we'll be right back.

We are back with the one and only Layne Garrison. Um, he's our friend and you know he's a wonderful actor because you're here. Uh, you may also know that he's been a wonderful actor on Mayor of Kingstown and Yellowstone and that he was nominated for a Critics Choice Award for his work in 2016's [00:31:00] Roots.

What you may not know, or, um, at least I did not know, is that Layne is also a writer. with several produced feature films under his belt. And, uh, if IMDb is to believe another one on the way. That's right. Um, so I want to hear all about that. And just thank you for being here in the middle of a crazy shooting schedule.

Three small children, um My greatest production is my three tiny terrorists at home and My amazing, my amazing wife, Mary Caitlin, of course she has two names because she's from Alabama. Yeah. Um, has to have two first names. But, uh Right. Everyone from the South calls me Sarah Wayne. I hear you. Exactly.

That's my, uh, greatest production to date. And I'm so thankful for that. First off, let me just say, it's so good to see you guys again. So good to see you. I mean, it feels like it's been a lifetime. It's literally You too, man. 21 years since the kickoff [00:32:00] of Prison Break. And like I was saying when we first started, it's weird, not a day goes by, not at an airport, where somebody doesn't, um, stop me.

And Or even in my, I live in a little, like, farm town community outside of Austin. And I remember when we first moved there, going into the grocery store and the ladies at the checkout would, like, eyeball me. And then finally Every one of them has worked up like, have you ever seen that show Prison Break?

Yeah. Yeah, I have. I know this one. Uh, I'm, yeah. I'm that guy. I'm Tweener. And I'm like, no, you're not. He's so much better looking than you. Dude. Thank you. Wait, this is small town living, because I also live in a small town, but I'm in British Columbia, and it's the same, like, has anyone ever told you you look like?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you've got the path. Yeah, yeah. You can either say, I, yeah, I've heard that before, and then they find out six months later, and they're like, what a [00:33:00] dick, why weren't you honest? Or in the moment, you can go, yeah, actually, that's me, and they say, no, you're not. Yeah. Because what would you be doing living here?

I don't know. And it's a personal choice. Every time. Every time. Every time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, also you're, also you're the older one. Yeah, you're like, man, I get that. And then I also get, man, I thought you were a lot bigger. And I'm like, yes, thank you. Thank you. Like, I thought you were huge, dude.

Thank you. Yeah. Wow. Good stuff. But I've learned to just be, um. To kind of go along with it as long as I can. Lane, tell us about, take us to the beginning, because you weren't in the pilot. Yep. Uh, are you in episode two? Uh, I was in episode nine, which was called Tweener. Okay, and did you, like, was it an audition, knowing that it was going to be, uh, tell us about the [00:34:00] audition process.

Yeah, start from the beginning. It's a sad story, but also an inspiring story. Um, my mother passed away when I was younger and my father, I got that terrible news that my dad also passed away and I went back, um, to say goodbye and put pieces together. I had a little sister at the time that I was getting all of her stuff to move her to LA with me.

It's just a really hard time for us. We have no parents, you know, now dad's gone and they never got to see me do anything. My film was just coming out, one of my first films. As an actor. Okay. As an actor. As an actor. I already had a writer's deal at like MGM at 21 and we'll get to the writing thing of it all.

That's it. I wanted to just act, but I didn't know anyone in town. Until Ben and Matt had won the Oscar. I was like, those guys are actors, but they won for screenwriting, what? And then it clicked. [00:35:00] Oh, I'll just write movies and hire people and then they'll have to put me in a movie. So you settled for being a screenwriter as a way of getting yourself an acting job.

I settled. Right, which leads me all to Prison Break. So, the way that it all went down and how I got Prison Break, this story is Um, kind of crazy, um, I was at, I, you know how Hollywood sometimes when you're younger and when you were there, you'll be like, I have 63 cents of my name, but I'm in a tuxedo at a hundred million dollar mansion in Pacific Palisades.

Well that happened to me. I get invited to this woman's 90th, her mom's 90th birthday party. And, um, I get sat next to the head of WME and Endeavor, a guy named Tom Strickler. And he's going off about how lazy actors are and, you know, he's like, I work with directors and writers and not [00:36:00] actors. Actors are lazy.

And I said, I'm an actor and I'm not lazy. And he's like, Oh yeah, well I get up at 530 and run 10 miles and read the Wall Street Journal. We're having like this pissing contest. And I'm like a 20 year old snot nosed punk and, um, I said, all right, well, I'll show up at your door tomorrow at 5 30 AM. I'm going to hand you your paper.

We'll do 10 miles run. And then you'll see that I'm not lazy. He's like, yeah, right. I did with my writing partner at the time, Martha, I handed him his newspaper. I'll never forget the look on his face. The fact that I showed up that early, we ran 10 miles, which nearly killed me. We made it back. I'm like stumbling.

He's like, alright, I said I'd read it, read your script. But that doesn't mean I'm going to sign you, kid. I'm going to be real honest. This is like a straight out of Central Casting. And he read it. Hollywood story. Yeah, so three [00:37:00] hours later, he calls me. You little S H I T, you can actually write. Get your butt in my office.

Get to W M E. At the time it was Endeavor. Um The following morning. So I go in and we get signed by him. And then he sits me down and talks about what I want to do with my career, what do I see myself doing. And I say, I just want to act, man. I'm just doing the writing so I can put myself in my own movies.

And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's how this is going to work. Whenever you do act, he's like, the minute you're done, you're going to write another movie and then you can act and in between, you're always going to be writing. And I thought that was good job security advice. So, you know, we, I ended up selling our, Mark and I sold our first script and then we got another studio deal at MGM as a writer.

How did you know how [00:38:00] to write? Like that's it's not lots of people are like I'm going to write a script and not everybody ends up with a studio deal or representation. Was it just like, Oh, um, here's what it was. My first script was really dark. And I've always been a good, pretty good guy, even as a little kid, like they'd send me, sit me at the table.

I've been the guy that's like, you'll never believe what happened. You're a storyteller. Start the story. Okay. I'm a storyteller, guys. So, I just followed the story, uh, inside. This is where I see it starting, and this is how it goes, and I've watched a lot of movies. Now. I'm like, oh. And it was really raw, and it was really a dark script.

It was called Murderers and Heroes, and they didn't make it because it was so dark, but it, it kind of broke me out as a writer, and, um, and Mark, Ben McLeddy, and, um, and then we got a deal at MGM. But, [00:39:00] um, so long story short, I'm writing these movies, um, Um, and I had to go like, I did like a three day workshop with Robert McKee, story seminar, um, just to kind of, you know, cause I was a little bit too raw.

I needed formatting. I needed some structure to understand it, but long story short. So I'm, I'm with like the top tier writing agent, you know, 21, I had no money before I had 400. I think I was down to 16 or something. And, um, And then I get the news that, Hey, you got to get back here for your sister. Your dad just passed away suddenly.

He passed away before you had a chance to say goodbye. Oh, lame. Yeah. And, um, well, in, because of my mom's death early on, I made sure with my dad we were tight and that I told him I [00:40:00] loved him and everything was good. In fact, it was like a field of dreams moment. The last. The last moment I had with him, the last minute that he was alive, we were throwing the baseball together like old times as the sun was setting on the 4th of July.

So, um, so I've got that great memory of like, Hey dad, you want to have a catch? You want to see me stop like a little girl, but feel the dreams of, um, and I just like my wife's like, you didn't even cry when our kids were born. She walked in and I was watching it. Yeah. And. Uh, it's just so sad, but anyway, so I'm flying back, back to L.

A. and Amelia, my little sister, is, we're trying to get her all set up, and I'm pretty, you know, I'm at a pretty low moment, like I have no parents, and now it's weird, I'm an orphan, kind of young man or kid, I, I consider myself a But you have a, a sister to raise. Yep. Yeah, yeah. [00:41:00] Yeah. And so I've got this responsibility and I'm going down the 405.

I just landed back and I see a billboard for prison break and I swear to God, it's like I had this internal, it just hit me. It's like coming this fall box, you know, and I just saw the one sheet for prison break and something said. I'm supposed to be a part of that just hit me. I just kept repeating it.

It was like, I see a million billboards for movies and stuff, but whatever reason that spoke to me. So I called Tom Strickler and says, Hey, what, what's the deal with this prison break? I want to get on it. It sounds, it sounds interesting. Like what's the deal? He's like, that's not how it works. You can't just call me and say, you want to be on a show and you get on it.

Well, come to find out, he represented Paul Shearing, the creator. He's like, I represent the creator, [00:42:00] and he sent me, this was back in the days when they still did VHS. He sent a courier with a VHS of the pilot to a prison break. A tape. I saw it on VHS I was like, I'm in. Like, you gotta, Tom, talk to Paul Shearing.

He's like, listen, kid. Now, if something comes up in your age range and we hear about it, then maybe you'll get an audition. Well, a week later, they're calling saying, there's this character, Tweener, do you think you can play him? And I was like, this is me, I know what to do. I go in, I, and I'm thinking that I'm so naive, I just think it's like, oh, he represents a traitor.

Yeah. He's a big agent. This is like, yeah, I want to do it. Right? No, you're going to go audition. So I had to audition five times. And it was down to me and one other guy and who knows, I still don't know to this day. I'm pretty sure, you know, it obviously helped to have a connection [00:43:00] to Paul. Five times. Five times.

Five auditions means you got, five auditions means you earned it. Yeah, yeah, I did. I felt like I really did earn it and put in the work. And um, so I got it. And um, I'll never forget at the time I was there. Doing like a, a co star role on a ABC show. And I was in the middle of this, uh, it was called Night Stalker.

I don't know if y'all remember that short little show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was in the middle. They, they brought in a, a 20 foot live python, this is how they killed me on the show, and they wrapped it around my body. And I was waiting there and holding, and I got the call that you got prison break. And I was like, yes!

And I was screaming that, I was so excited, but I was. I couldn't move because I had a giant Sorry, a real python around your real body? The, the, the guy that you would always see, Jack Hanna, on The Tonight Show and stuff, he was [00:44:00] the guy bringing the python to kill me on the show. So, the story just gets wilder and wilder.

So, this is not, by the way, for people listening, this is not your normal casting, normal process. It usually involves fewer pythons. They say you got it. Um, but here's the catch. I think it was like 5 p. m. that day. It was around 4. 35 p. m. They said, you have to get on the 5. 15 a. m. flight the next morning.

You're shooting starting tomorrow because some snowstorm. So I land, I, I fly out 10 or 12 hours later. I land, they race me straight to the studio into hair and makeup. I wanted to do cornrows with the character. They're like, no, no, no, we don't have time for that. Adam shaved those three lines into my head.

And they raced me off, put me in a cell and said, okay, this is a scene where you break down because T Bag's trying to rape you. I'm like, oh, perfect. [00:45:00] Just give me like one minute, please. I literally have been running, running, running to get there. I had a python around me yesterday. Yeah, I said, well, Do you remember who the director, do you remember who the director was?

I think it was Guy Furland, who's one of our directors up here. Oh, I love him so much. Please give him a hug for me. Oh, wow. We'll have to look. Um, I, Yeah, me too. I don't remember who the director was, but I know Guy. That sounds about right, actually, because he was around episode nine. Um, Yep. And he's still, guys still like claps after everyone.

It's the greatest. It's super exciting. Yeah, yeah. It's like it's I think he killed me in season 5. I think he was So, long story short, I'm like, dang man, they're picking the hardest scene out of the whole script for me to shoot. I haven't even decompressed. I'm like supposed to be in tears. I'm like, let me listen to my mom's favorite song.

And I'm over there sobbing, listening to, like, Joni Mitchell. Um, and trying to act like I'm [00:46:00] hard. On your iPod. You know, like, over there in the corner. So, and T Dag singing away and doing his thing. And it was surreal to me to be, because, you know, I've done smaller, uh, smaller indie film. Um. And have never been on a set that big.

It was a big operation, especially season one. It was a big operation. Mm-hmm. Um, also, it's a show you had seen and then like, you'd seen it on, on your VHS and then suddenly actually it was, it's like stepping into your tv. It was one of those. No, but no, he had gotten that sent to him. Remember he had kind of sent it, hadn't released yet.

And it was, it was surreal for me to go, it's kind of one of those things where I tell you where it's like envision the goal state what you want to do in life. I don't care if it's entertainment or accounting, whatever. Um, and I feel like that was a manifestation of, I want to do this and I'm going to find a way to do [00:47:00] this and go after it.

Um, if I could just, It was just surreal to meet everybody and, you know, it was a little bit nerve wracking for me. We didn't know that the show was going to be hit. Um, by the way, Tweener was only supposed to be three episodes. Is that right? Yeah. So you worked yourself into a job. I worked myself into a job, almost like, I mean, I'm always like a nice guy.

Like I love everybody and treat everybody kindly, but I knew like, I need a real, I need these people to really like me. Yeah. Especially Paul and something in this character. And so the hair lady, Linda, I'll never forget, she like loved me and she's like, I'm gonna put in a good word with Paul, she, I love her Chicago and, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And um. So, it was just a really fun ride in with the [00:48:00] Mowdy and Rockman and um, P1 up there and you guys just, it was a really great cast and I say it was a hit because I'm sure you both been on multiple shows where everybody doesn't really gel because there's too many egos involved. This was a show, I feel like, no ego, total humility.

Total gracefulness, great crew, so respectable of everybody. And um, so that was a fun thing when you get like a hit show like that. Like, you know that everybody's a wonderful human being, which made it all the more special. And then Well, cause you Like I said Paul and I talk about this a lot. We were on different shows.

You were in the prison yard and digging into things. Like you were deep in with the sort of like Fox River 8 of it all. Whereas, like, I, you and I didn't have a scene together. I mean, briefly [00:49:00] with the, the, we were in the same infirmary with the watch grab with the Geary thing. But like, it's really interesting that the three of us were on the same show.

And in the first two seasons, up until things, you know, Paul and I started working together a lot in season two, but they were such radically different experiences. Yeah, yeah, they were, um, yours seemed a lot warmer than ours. You, you mean like physically warmer? Yep, that's right. I was indoors a lot.

Physically warmer, yeah. So, so I'm here in Pittsburgh and it's snowing like crazy. Yesterday we were out, it was negative, it was zero with the windshield. And I was looking down the corridor of this prison, now as a prison guard. Thinking about those days of prison break, like, wow, this is surreal coming full circle.

Now, I'm on the other side of the fence, and we were telling this story. I was telling this story because there was a scene, I don't know how much I can say, but there's a scene between a Latin gang member [00:50:00] and one of the other gang members that I kind of break up, and they were so cold, they couldn't, they're like, I'm so cold, I can't even open my eyes.

It was bone crushing cold and I remember I told the scene about when we broke out of prison in prison break. It was a night time shoot and I want to say it was like negative 15 degrees to this day. It's the coldest I've ever felt in my life. Well, Maudi, with his accent, couldn't get the lines out. Oh no.

Yeah, he can't talk. It would race us out, it would put us in front of the heaters in a van. And we'd be like, T thaw, T thaw. So we're on take, like, 15, and we're like the wrap party, I remember, was, um, St. Patrick's Day. So this would have been, like, first week of March in Chicago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was one of the coldest days in Chicago.

I'm like, of course. We're filming outside when it's doing this. So we're like, please, I'm out. [00:51:00] Please So, on, on like take 15, and God bless him, like, I don't think any of us would have made it. It was that cold, you couldn't move your mouth. He, he's like, he's trying to talk to Wimbert, I forget what the line is.

But he messes up, and he just starts cussing in Spanish, he's like, Coño, madre pinche. And he's punching the van, because he can't get it out, because he's so frustrated. And we were dying, um. And finally, the next take, he got it and we're like, please, for the love of God, it was like the coldest day I've ever filmed in my life or coldest night out there.

It really was. And you're right. Your show was much colder than mine because I was by and large indoors. Um, yeah, but I, you know, Mine was cold, but only briefly cold. I was also wearing a suit. And as a show, I was losing weight because I was trying to get in shape, but I get bulkier as the season goes on because I'm wearing thicker and thicker [00:52:00] long underwear under my suit.

It's so funny because, so that day was a split, I think it was on a Friday, and um, I remember Wade, who played Bella, you know, I, when I leave prison break, I'll never forget this, I'm supposed to like. I'm supposed to punch Bellic, you know, I punch him as I'm on my way out just for everything he had, like, set me up on.

So, the stunt coordinator's like, you know, you've really got to square it. I'm like, I know what I'm doing, man. It's just like, I'm not, and Wade goes, alright, if you hit me, I just, I'm, I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to bum brush you, man. I'm like, I'm not going to hit you. Like, the camera's over there, please.

Well, I stumbled into the scene and lunged forward and I really clocked him. And I mean, so that's a real reaction that, oh my God, I wanna go re-watch that right now. And he flew out of that little, like, [00:53:00] tunnel thing he was in and like just got me down on the ground. I'm like, dude, I'm so sorry. I can't believe, oh my God, it happened.

Um, so yeah, I really punched him on the way out. So my three episodes turns into, you know. 17 plus and then they offered me the series regular role and season two, which I foolishly I was telling y'all this story before, but, um, I turned down because, because you only ever get good advice from agents. Yeah.

I listened to agents, um, and not Tom Strickler, by the way, if he ever heard this, he would say that. Yeah. But some. Younger hot shot agents are like, no, no, no, no, you don't sign that and that's not enough. And we got you on track to be the next Wahlberg. You do movies. Nowadays, I do do movies and people are like, oh, that's cute.

[00:54:00] Well, what shows have you created? It's such a wild, um, also, I think something that I learned early on was Back then, I don't know that this is still true, I don't think it is, but back then, every job you got paid more than the last job. You started at the lowest legally allowable union minimum, and then you started to make a living wage, and so there was a Not started to make a living wage, started to make real money.

And so there was an incentive almost for agents to get you onto the next show, onto the next show. And Paul, you've said this before, like, there's not a lot of good advice about, like, this is the show. Love this. Be here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean And that's really too bad because Look, it's, it's, it's their job.

I understand that it's their job. But I would always said about an agent that I had For years where it's like if they offered me [00:55:00] Martin Scorsese directed show And then, um, Saturn of Glendale Offered me two dollars more to stand on a corner and toss a sign He would have been like, you know, uh, it's a good deal Glendale's a big city, it's coming up And that's a big, I mean, and that's kind of their job I mean, I think people have teams and da da da Like my manager, thank God for her, would always be like That's not why you do that, like she has that Not everyone gets that advice.

I don't know if I would, I probably would have made this for, for what it's worth. I've made that mistake in my career and for anybody listening, I think like I've always said, you don't have to be an entertainer. You don't have to be an athlete in life in general to trust your gut instinct and, and, and choose the soul over the finances, because once you compromise.

Or, you know, my gut said, this is like my family. These are my, [00:56:00] my best friends. And it's filming in my hometown. I'm, you know, I get to see my family. My family became everybody's family. Like, Nepper, everybody's hanging out. I'm like, wait, you're over at my cousin's? Like, what are you doing? And, um. You too. But Lane, but Lane, in your defense, you're 25 years old.

Yeah. And. And everything, I was saying this when we were talking before too, what got you there from the kid with 14 in his pocket was this drive and this thing of like, I am taking the risk. I'm believing in myself. I'm betting on myself. And so when someone, someone says you're the next Wahlberg, don't get locked up on the show for four years, I mean, you, you're, you have always said, I'm going to take the risk, I'm going to take the risk.

And so the idea of settling down, not settling for something, but saying like, yeah, I'm going to settle into [00:57:00] this for a few years is almost like, it almost goes against all the internal work we've done to say, keep driving, keep get it, keep driving. Because you, you feel like if you stop doing that, you're going to lose your edge.

Yeah. And it's hard. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, go. Well, I mean, part of, this kind of takes me into, you know, you mentioned Dallas was home for you, Chicago was home for Paul. Like to back up a little bit, you were one of the people season one that I just loved spending time with. You know what I mean? Like, you'd come to dinner with me and Josh and like, you were such a warm and loving person that even though we were not on the same show, it was really cool to connect.

Um, But going to Dallas was so fun because it was your hometown. But also, and again, like, I was on this totally different track. Not only am I on a different show, but I'm married. Yep. Halfway through season two, I'm pregnant. So, [00:58:00] like, I'm coming to set and being like, Hey, how was your weekend in the trailer?

And being like, you did what with who? Like, oh my God. And there was By the way, honey, she doesn't mean me. I'm not naming names, I'm just saying, like, you guys had this crazy thing happen, which was you were young, mostly single, hot, talented as hell, blowing up all over Hollywood. You guys got so famous, so fast, at a time when you could get famous because there was a limited amount of content out there.

Yeah, you didn't have social media and all that, right? But it was a wild thing to watch. How did it feel from the inside? Um, looking back to be quite honest, if I could go back in the time machine, I'd go back and beat the crap out of my own self [00:59:00] because, and this is why not because you're not supposed to be young and enjoy it.

Um, I think part of it for me was, was very. It was, it was a surreal thing because we were back home, but I was back home and it was a constant reminder of me and my parents, you know, being gone. And for me personally, I had always made this thing. I came from a lineage of alcoholism and I had grown up as a kid.

I said, you know, I'd never do that. I'd never drink alcohol. I don't want that, that life. And These doors of celebrity or a hit show or whatever opening up for me during that time was, was, was detrimental in some sense because it led to me drinking and doing all. All of the things that I said I wouldn't do and I [01:00:00] wish for anyone out there, I'm sure there's a lot of people that listen to this just because of the show, that when you see some success, it's not the time to kick back and yes, enjoy it.

But, but also I wish I would have worked harder is what I'm saying in those moments and not, yes, there's a time and a place to enjoy some success. And with family and friends, but it, it doesn't have to be every day. You know what I mean? I should have been working harder and writing more at that time and really utilizing, Hey, you've got a chance here to really climb to the next level.

If you work a little harder. It's hard. Um, I, uh, Sarah, I don't know if I, you know, this story, I'll never forget this. I talk about like how. Fame or, uh, whatever messes with your head [01:01:00] attention. I always tell a story about Lane and how old he was and then going to Dallas and the show had been blown up. And Dallas was like, also, it was one of those times that you're saying there's no social media, et cetera.

Dallas loves fame. And it's really only like the Cowboys, the Mavs, right. It's like the sports team and then prison break was in town. Right. So like these guys were like stars. And I remember we were sitting on McKinney Street or whatever it is. Like at an outdoor patio. And there was some local, like, uh, glossy magazine called like Dallas Now or something.

Envy magazine. And Lane. Envy. What? Envy. Dallas Envy magazine. Oh my god. And Lane was on the cover of it that month or that week or whatever. Okay, and I'm sitting with him, we're sitting, and I think a few of us were there, and a truck that's delivering the magazine pulls [01:02:00] up and it's him on the side of the truck holding the magazine, and then we run across the street and get the magazines and then come back, and then it's him holding the magazine in front of a picture on the side of a truck of him holding the magazine.

In his hometown, and I was just like, dude, your brain must be melting out of your fucking ears. By the way, we found, I found that magazine, um, I have like my tub full of all like memorabilia and prison break white heaters that we had made and stuff. And, um, My daughter, my oldest daughter was like, who is that?

I'm like, that's her dad. She looked at me like, what? I mean, if you see, I'm like an Ed Hardy. I've got probably like 75 necklaces and rings on. It's like, I found when I moved over the summer, I found the invitation to your 25th birthday party. Oh my God. It's like a little, like, [01:03:00] glossy blue. And you also had this watch.

Yeah. Yes. What was the watch? I remember there was a story. I had partnered with this designer from Dallas named Todd Bloom. Okay. And we were in a, it was like an Ed Hardy, I mean, if you see this stuff now. It was this, like, giant. Yeah, it was a giant watch. Like platinum and diamonds. Yeah. I remember you wore it out to dinner with us and Josh and I were like on the way home.

I was like, should we just mug him for the watch and go retire? Like it was the sweetest, but like, but there was also, I remember you told me a story about your sister or something and I was giving you shit. I was like, Oh, nice watch kid. And like, you know, cause we're in like whatever jeans and fucking whatever, tippy stupid shit.

Like we just, I remember giving you shit for it and you were like, listen, I grew up with not a whole lot. I take care of my sister. I did this for me or something. And I was just like, Oh, I radically, radically, I was like, that was me in my judgment moment, like [01:04:00] giving you shit out of love, but also like, I got this totally wrong.

I'm so sorry. Um, and I never forgot it. We were like walking down the street in, in Wicker Park. And, uh, I was like, Oh, Lucky's. We went to Lucky's. Lucky's. That was it. Lucky's. Club Lucky's. Love it. Still there. Still there. Club Lucky's still there. Still a really good eggplant farm. Club Lucky's. Wicker Park, Chicago.

Yeah, I think I, you know, hindsight's always 20 20. Um, obviously I didn't go to college. I never had any of that experience. Um, and truthfully, I, from the time I was 18, the day after we graduated, I drove out to LA in my beat up Plymouth Laser. I with no ac Oh yeah, atta boy. I was a janitor at the time at this church and I saved up $400.

That's what I had in going out there. And, um, so to come back home for [01:05:00] me was surreal, but I was coming back home. There's no parents. It was, it was beautiful and also haunting and that duality, it hit me pretty hard. Um, let's take a quick break and then, um, can we talk about tweener? Yeah. Let's talk about questions.

Yeah. Let's talk about tweener. All right. We'll be right back.

Okay. We're back. Couple of tweener questions. Yeah. Yeah. You mean Twitter? Maybe more than You mean Twitter? That's what my wife thought everybody was calling me. Twitter? Twitter? Twitter? Twitter! She thought my name was Twitter. So, wait. I'll tell you, in meeting my wife, going back to her family's house in Alabama for Christmas for the first time, like, Mom, I'm bringing over this guy, randomly, I haven't met her family yet.

You know, nervous. I already know. I'm like, I'm marrying this woman. Um, we're gonna have Children together. Like I knew [01:06:00] instantly, like this is a fake. How long have y'all been together at this point? Um, like four months. Not. Yeah, not long. But I mean, I literally knew within minute one. It's like that you're going on prison break.

This is your wife. It's that moment. Wow. Her brother flips on the TV. Guess what happens to be playing? Before I've even met them. Prison break as I'm like, Does my mama have big breastises? That whole scene where I'm like gonna steal the watch. I'm on TV. This is like the moment with Paul in the Indie Magazine.

I'm like, this is so weird. I'm just meeting her family. I was like, isn't that you? And I'm like, yeah. Like, I thought this was, I thought they were punking. And it literally just happened that way. It's like, and that's the one scene you see of me where I'm like, does my mama have big breasts? This is, I'm like, hi, I'm we, [01:07:00] we were always wondering if I wrote the rap.

I can't remember. I think, I think that was in the script, because that was a Zach script from season one that we went through. Um, because I remember how he spelled breastises, and I was like, how do you, how do you write that down? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right. Um, okay, but you, like, a lot of people on the show played characters very different from themselves, but you were one of the ones, arguably you and Knepper.

Yeah. Who had the most distance, right? Like, I know you as someone of integrity, of honesty, like, Was it super fun? Was it stressful? Was it like, because I know later it had impacts for your life. Yes. Being known as Tweener, not Lane. Yeah. We'll get there in a second, but like. It was the funnest, the first episode was obviously trying to get to know everybody and everybody cool.

Once, Paul sure even made up his mind like this is going to be kind of [01:08:00] a regular character. Yeah. And I like. After those first initial three episodes, I was like, I could breathe a sigh of relief. I mean, I'd be in my trailer, like bumping Eminem, sagging my pants and like dancing around the trailer. And I'm like, I'm just going to, because I felt like he could have some comedic moments in a very dark show for that time period.

And I, that's what I was talking with, um, Zach Estrin and those guys. And, and what Paul Shearing was, let's have those moments of brevity with this, with this kid and try to have some laughs and try to have fun. So um, getting into character for me, you know, anytime I'd have them shave lines in my head and get the, the ear pierced and the whole deal, it's just a lot of fun because it was so different from who I am and getting to talk like that, that I just had a, a blast and um.[01:09:00]

Yeah, it was, it was surreal to the, to this day because, you know, it's one of those shows. It's you're, I'm forever tweener for whatever reason. Like nobody's like, Oh, you're the guy from Roots. It just didn't come up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably good too. That on the other hand was not a fun role to get into.

Yeah. I didn't see it, but I, I can do the math. Yeah. What you would be playing in Roots. You know, I talked earlier about, I wish I could go back in the time machine and not and work harder and do things better. Stay true in my faith. And now I'm a sober guy, a family man and a dad. And really, I'm still me.

I'm still the same thing. And I thought as a young man, I've got a party and I got to lift this up and I got to drink and do that whole deal. And Um, I, [01:10:00] I feel, that, that's a big regret in my life back then. Did it feel like there was pressure for that kind of identity? To like, live it up, go out, do the things, like, especially in your hometown?

Well, I think, yeah, I think there was some of that, but I think more than anything, as, you know, men, we, uh, develop a lot slower than you ladies in, in terms of maturity. And, uh, look, I didn't get very tall. I was 38, and my wife is still like, she's, she's, she's molded me like there's no tomorrow. But, um, I think that I was just immature.

I needed to grow up and really find out who I am. And you guys know this. It seems like all fun, but when it takes off as a hit, there's suddenly a new There's a new sense of pressure to keep this thing a bit and keep this thing going that I felt [01:11:00] that I felt that every performance every take had to be perfection.

And so that pressure of not fully knowing, um, that I was great, just as I am, and trusting the process, um, led to that drinking and led to my, um, alcoholism a little bit. Um, and I'm just so blessed that, you know, to be a sober man as long as I've been now. And, and I just encourage young people out there listening that are going to pursue their goals and dreams of life.

You don't need it. You don't need it. In fact, I'm better. I'm a better actor. I found out completely sober because I'm and I think that can be a fear like as I've, you know, we all know a ton of people in the program. I feel like I have a friend right now who's really struggling in the middle of this, who's an artist.

Yeah. And he's worried that like, he's like, what if I can't create without it? That's [01:12:00] how I feel. And I've been putting him in touch with friends who are sponsors, you know, who are like, Oh, just wait, your best work is on the other side of your sobriety. And, um, but I hear that a lot. I think that's a really common fear because You know, we all got voices.

It's gotta be this, like, quirky, dark, I mean, I'm dealing with the darkness to be the best artist, and that's not true at all. You actually need to be present and sober minded in this life, so that you can process all that's happening around you to then tell your stories or sing your songs and do your music.

I came from a history of that, and, you know, part of my, my vows to my wife were that my children would never see, outside of me, never see me have a drink, and, and that's what I want them to be proud of, like my dad was so reminded, um, and I'm sure they'll make fun of me when they can eventually [01:13:00] see prison break.

Um, there's not many movies I've done. They can see this last one that's out right now called You Got Balloon. Yeah, there's not a lot of content that they can tune into. My kids have basically never seen my work. Yeah, yeah. They've seen a few episodes of Colony, but Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um And now I'm on another prison show.

On the other side, I'm like, I can't get away from this razor wire. Um, and it's cool, though, now, like, the difference is, on our set, I was too self consumed with the character and what's happening in our little internal world. Now I see it. We have like 600 extras. Um, every day. I mean, this is a monster set.

And I see it as like a ministry for me. I love going when it's not negative zero like it was yesterday and getting to, to meet everyone and getting to talk to everybody and finding out what they want to do and encourage them guys. And I just, [01:14:00] I kind of just now back then I used to fight like I have to have this role.

I have to do this. This song is mine and up, up, up. You know, just everything was a grind and a fight. Now I'm just like, God, just, you know, take me where you want me, man. I'll just, I just want to be a bright light. Now, whatever role I'm supposed to speak life into. You'll open those doors. I mean, I'll do a little bit of release is such a gift to just stop white knuckle.

Yeah, stop because it's gonna be okay. What was your other questions? Well, I mean, it's not so much a question, but it was one of my favorite moments with you in Dallas, just because it was so indicative of who you are. And in my life, it's such an outlier. We had just finished work. We weren't in a scene together, but we were like, I don't know.

Somehow we were both on set. Yeah. And you were like, dude, I'm hungry. I'm going to go get something to eat. And I was like, okay. Josh was off doing his martial arts thing. And I was like, you're like, where do you want to come? And I was like, [01:15:00] yeah, sure. Where are you going? You're like, Chewy's. It's one of my favorites.

It's Tex Mex. It's super good. I was like, outstanding. You're like, I think we're gonna meet a friend there. I was like, cool, man. You know all of Dallas like whatever we walk in There's almost no one in the restaurant and I was like, what the fuck is going on here? And in the corner is Jessica Simpson. Oh, yeah, and a bunch of her friends or like team or whatever And I was like Lane and you're like what she's my friend and I was like don't watch.

She's my friend I was like, I'm like No makeup, sweats, you know, I've been up for 14 hours, all I want to do is get like a burger, whatever, some quesadilla or something. And she's like the loveliest person in the world. Yeah, tiniest loveliest. But she never stood up, she was seated in a corner. She tells one of the funniest stories I've ever told that I don't want to repeat because it involved feminine products and a live production.

And I don't know if it's something she wants out there publicly, but I like, died. Ordered some food and then I was like, you know, you guys are old friends. I don't need to be here for this, like, I bugged [01:16:00] out. But it was one of those moments where, like, I realized that you really are truly somebody who treats everybody the same.

Um, I Whether they're Cause at the time, Jessica Simpson was one of the biggest pop stars In the world, yeah. In planet Earth. Yeah. Um. And it was just kind of funny and I got home and Josh was like, Oh, you're home early. I thought you were going to go eat with Lane. And I was like, there was a superstar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got takeout. You, uh, as I recall, you went to senior prom with Jessica? No, it was a homecoming. But my other best friend, Charles, uh, may have went with her. But yeah, we grew up together and known her since I was 12. Man, it is so good to see you. It's so good to see you. Feels like no time. I know, I know.

It's been a long time. No time. It's also so good to see you, like, in love, family, sober, thriving. You seem, right now, like the guy I first met. Season one, before the show, [01:17:00] I don't know what kind of watch you're wearing, I can't see your wrists, but otherwise. My wedding ring is like a plastic, little plastic.

Oh yeah, we're down to that in our house too. My husband's lost four wedding rings, I was like, oh no, we're not spending money on expensive things anymore. Everyone's like, take this stupid truck driving cap off. I'm like, with the American flag, it's ratty. I'm like, that's my lucky hat. Dude, you're texting, it's all good.

It's full circle for me. This, I really felt like this shows the opportunity. Now I'm on the other side of the fence. I'm back in a prison show with all these extras. It's a hit show for Paramount. Um, I'm getting to do it the right way. It's like God, it's a God wink moment for me. Like, Hey, do it the right way this time.

They're super lucky to have you. They're super lucky to have you. And if you see guy, give him our love. Oh, yeah.

All right, well, I'm looking forward to working with you guys too, man. And when you [01:18:00] come to LA, I got to see you. Yeah, I will. I got to see you. I will. I'm going to see you. And, um, I mean, if you end up in BC, best sushi of the world, bring, uh, bring, bring your pack. We've got a little wood barrel running around.

Um, but blessings to you guys. Thank you, man. So much love, friend. Brother, I love you. So much love. Love you, man. My family loves you, brother. I miss you. And we love you, man. Thank you. Prison breaking with Sarah and Paul is a caliber studio production. Your hosts have been inmates, Sarah Lin Callas and Paul Stein.

Our prison Warden's producer Ben Haber. The front man of our jailhouse rock band is Paul Stein. You Made Music. The Prison Yard Tattoo artist, logo and brand designer is John Nunziata with little big brands. Check them out@littlebigbrands.com. Follow us on Instagram and YouTube at Prison Break Podcast.

Email us at pbpodcast. caliber. studio. com or call us at [01:19:00] 401 3P BREAK. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul at Caliber Studio Production. Thank you for listening.