1 00:00:34,924 --> 00:00:37,366 JENNY SIMPSON: It's a beautiful November day, we load up the 2 00:00:37,386 --> 00:00:41,270 passengers, full boat, we go round to an island where there's 3 00:00:41,290 --> 00:00:46,315 seals, all of a sudden something just leaps out of the water. 4 00:00:53,802 --> 00:00:57,025 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Hello and welcome to Wild Tales. I'm 5 00:00:57,105 --> 00:01:00,228 Ranger Rosie Holdsworth and today we're heading to Colmore. 6 00:01:00,472 --> 00:01:03,935 To untangle one of the world's most endangered and cryptic 7 00:01:03,995 --> 00:01:04,635 species. 8 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:13,503 JENNY SIMPSON: First split-second reaction is a 9 00:01:13,523 --> 00:01:16,685 dolphin, but as soon as it came a bit further up out the water, 10 00:01:17,006 --> 00:01:21,489 the shape of it, the way in which it was vertically coming 11 00:01:21,669 --> 00:01:25,312 straight up in the air, it definitely wasn't a dolphin. 12 00:01:27,134 --> 00:01:29,876 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Jenny is a wildlife guide in Padstow. A 13 00:01:29,876 --> 00:01:33,099 quaint seaside town nestled in the Camel Estuary on the 14 00:01:33,119 --> 00:01:36,722 Atlantic coast of Cornwall. Spending hundreds of hours out 15 00:01:36,782 --> 00:01:40,586 at sea each year, Jenny has a suspicion about what she's seen. 16 00:01:41,467 --> 00:01:43,669 JENNY SIMPSON: You do get some people who say to us, there 17 00:01:43,689 --> 00:01:46,271 aren't any sharks here, are there? And I just say to them, 18 00:01:46,291 --> 00:01:48,093 well, anywhere there's ocean, there are sharks. 19 00:01:50,375 --> 00:01:52,497 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Jenny knows that when someone says shark, 20 00:01:53,298 --> 00:01:55,620 all we think of is jaws full of teeth. 21 00:02:01,912 --> 00:02:04,294 JENNY SIMPSON: I remember seeing a basking shark and there was a 22 00:02:04,314 --> 00:02:08,697 little boy in the boat and he was so scared. And I was like, 23 00:02:08,877 --> 00:02:12,699 this is really exciting. It's not got big teeth. Just because 24 00:02:12,699 --> 00:02:15,421 it was a big shark, he was sure it was something scary. 25 00:02:16,542 --> 00:02:18,443 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Jenny has to find out what she's seen. 26 00:02:20,104 --> 00:02:22,806 When it comes to sharks, being able to tell people on board 27 00:02:22,886 --> 00:02:25,388 exactly what is out there can be the difference between 28 00:02:25,468 --> 00:02:26,909 fascination and fear. 29 00:02:28,350 --> 00:02:31,532 But with just that glimpse of a shape, how could she do it? 30 00:02:34,444 --> 00:02:37,507 MOLLY KRESSLER: So I'm American. When I was born, my grandparents 31 00:02:37,567 --> 00:02:40,129 moved to Florida in a really beautiful place called Vero 32 00:02:40,189 --> 00:02:43,512 Beach. You'd wake up and you'd see manatees and dolphins and 33 00:02:43,552 --> 00:02:46,275 pelicans. And it's just like a breeding ground for marine 34 00:02:46,295 --> 00:02:46,915 biologists. 35 00:02:47,396 --> 00:02:48,296 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: This is Molly. 36 00:02:48,977 --> 00:02:51,019 MOLLY KRESSLER: I was kind of the target demo of something in 37 00:02:50,999 --> 00:02:53,841 the U. S. Called Shark Week on Discovery Channel. And it 38 00:02:53,961 --> 00:02:56,684 coincided pretty much annually with our vacation down to my 39 00:02:56,704 --> 00:02:59,306 grandparents' house. So it really was this like perfect 40 00:02:59,406 --> 00:03:01,408 storm. So we'd watch Shark Week. 41 00:03:01,488 --> 00:03:03,549 And then we would go to the beach. And I remember some of my 42 00:03:03,609 --> 00:03:05,829 siblings being absolutely petrified of going near the 43 00:03:05,849 --> 00:03:08,310 water. But I was more like, if I go in the water, I might 44 00:03:08,350 --> 00:03:10,190 actually see one of those sharks that I saw last night. 45 00:03:11,411 --> 00:03:14,251 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Unlike in the UK, in Florida, sharks are a 46 00:03:14,331 --> 00:03:17,812 reasonably common sight. For Molly, they start to become an 47 00:03:17,832 --> 00:03:18,553 obsession. 48 00:03:20,033 --> 00:03:23,254 MOLLY KRESSLER: We would do surf fishing. You're literally 49 00:03:23,314 --> 00:03:27,755 standing like ankle deep in the surf. And you cast it as far as 50 00:03:27,755 --> 00:03:30,096 you can. It's got a really big weight on the end. And then it 51 00:03:30,116 --> 00:03:34,481 plops in. And you know there's something because it bends 52 00:03:34,581 --> 00:03:38,142 really dramatically. And in that moment, everyone's screaming, 53 00:03:38,982 --> 00:03:39,462 reel it in. 54 00:03:40,043 --> 00:03:42,643 For a while, you have no idea what it is. And then it'll come 55 00:03:42,683 --> 00:03:44,804 up in the swell. And when it's in that wave, you kind of get a 56 00:03:44,824 --> 00:03:48,325 good picture of it. And I just saw that elongated gray body. 57 00:03:48,385 --> 00:03:51,206 And I was like, that does not look like the fish we're looking 58 00:03:51,286 --> 00:03:54,947 for food-wise. We pulled in a juvenile scallop hammerhead. 59 00:03:55,007 --> 00:03:57,727 And I got to hold it. I've got a photo of it somewhere. And 60 00:03:57,727 --> 00:04:00,537 there's just this beam across my face. And I think I'm actually 61 00:04:00,557 --> 00:04:03,118 wearing a hat at the time that had a little shark embroidered 62 00:04:03,158 --> 00:04:06,861 on it as well. So it's just like picture perfect, kind of like a 63 00:04:06,921 --> 00:04:07,982 shark obsessed girl. 64 00:04:09,323 --> 00:04:12,305 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: The shark obsessed girl grew up to become 65 00:04:12,505 --> 00:04:16,808 Dr. Kressler, a marine ecologist specializing in predator 66 00:04:16,828 --> 00:04:17,308 behavior. 67 00:04:18,409 --> 00:04:20,751 MOLLY KRESSLER: I think getting to see that wildlife, it really 68 00:04:21,251 --> 00:04:23,693 instilled in me the sense of there's so much going on beyond 69 00:04:23,733 --> 00:04:26,495 that calm of the surface. I'm one of those people when you 70 00:04:26,515 --> 00:04:29,316 give me a little bit and then... Everything else is kind of 71 00:04:29,336 --> 00:04:29,576 hidden. 72 00:04:29,596 --> 00:04:32,337 I'm like, no, no, I need more. And when you have the marine 73 00:04:32,357 --> 00:04:34,558 environment, unless you're scuba diving or swimming, you really 74 00:04:34,618 --> 00:04:38,679 can't see below. It instilled those questions in me of like, 75 00:04:38,779 --> 00:04:39,720 what else is out there? 76 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,921 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: But Molly's thirst for knowledge kept coming 77 00:04:42,961 --> 00:04:44,581 up against the same problem. 78 00:04:47,622 --> 00:04:50,283 MOLLY KRESSLER: We describe marine animals like sharks a lot 79 00:04:50,323 --> 00:04:54,429 as being cryptic. So that's when They have these behaviours that 80 00:04:54,469 --> 00:04:56,530 mean we don't really know what they're doing most of the time. 81 00:04:56,590 --> 00:04:57,951 They can be really hard to find. 82 00:04:58,431 --> 00:05:01,173 And any time you have a cryptic species, you often have really 83 00:05:01,273 --> 00:05:04,695 high research costs to even interact with the animal once, 84 00:05:05,075 --> 00:05:07,917 let alone to understand what it's doing over time. And that's 85 00:05:07,957 --> 00:05:11,679 really where the power lies in understanding what a species is 86 00:05:11,699 --> 00:05:13,860 and what we can do for it in terms of conservation. 87 00:05:14,601 --> 00:05:17,443 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Back across the Atlantic, Jenny is on a mission 88 00:05:17,523 --> 00:05:20,785 to figure out what it is she's seen. She quizzes local 89 00:05:20,845 --> 00:05:23,786 fishermen and scours the newspapers for sightings. 90 00:05:24,807 --> 00:05:28,189 JENNY SIMPSON: I'm thinking it seems a bit small for a basking 91 00:05:28,269 --> 00:05:32,711 shark. I know we get blue sharks around Cornwall, but this shark 92 00:05:32,811 --> 00:05:36,874 seems a bit too sort of big and stocky. I'm kind of going 93 00:05:36,894 --> 00:05:38,815 through it all in my head, but it wasn't until I got back to 94 00:05:38,795 --> 00:05:43,577 the office and looking at some videos of the style of breaching 95 00:05:44,058 --> 00:05:47,820 of different sharks, I'm looking at Mako sharks who kind of do 96 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:48,180 this stuff. 97 00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:51,702 Of twist as they leap out. I was like, that's not it. That's not 98 00:05:51,743 --> 00:05:54,825 what we saw. Looking at a video of a Thresher shark that comes 99 00:05:54,965 --> 00:05:57,947 straight up and then splashes down, the way in which it 100 00:05:57,967 --> 00:05:59,548 breached matched perfectly. 101 00:06:00,389 --> 00:06:02,710 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Thresher sharks are best known for their long 102 00:06:02,870 --> 00:06:06,333 tails, which are almost the same length as their body. They use 103 00:06:06,353 --> 00:06:09,575 this tail like a whip to stun their prey. Known in some 104 00:06:09,635 --> 00:06:13,378 cultures as the fox of the sea for their elusive nature, they 105 00:06:13,398 --> 00:06:15,900 have a few cunning and deceptive features. 106 00:06:16,432 --> 00:06:19,533 JENNY SIMPSON: Yeah, they've got these really dopey faces, almost 107 00:06:19,553 --> 00:06:21,674 like they're kind of tucking their bottom lip in. 108 00:06:22,214 --> 00:06:24,214 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: There are three species of Thresher sharks, 109 00:06:24,434 --> 00:06:28,515 common, pelagic and big eye. Sharks, as a group of species, 110 00:06:28,655 --> 00:06:31,556 are second only to amphibians when it comes to their risk of 111 00:06:31,576 --> 00:06:35,237 extinction. To get a sighting of their leap is extraordinary, 112 00:06:35,597 --> 00:06:40,119 once in a lifetime. But just two days later... 113 00:06:42,359 --> 00:06:44,860 JENNY SIMPSON: We'd heard about a Thresher shark being caught. 114 00:06:45,424 --> 00:06:49,246 In some fisherman's gear. It wasn't an intentional catch with 115 00:06:49,286 --> 00:06:52,307 bycatch. It just means that they're fishing for something 116 00:06:52,367 --> 00:06:54,968 else and something accidentally gets caught in their nets that 117 00:06:54,948 --> 00:06:56,049 they don't intend to catch. 118 00:06:56,709 --> 00:07:00,831 But it had died and there's no way of knowing it's the same 119 00:07:01,051 --> 00:07:06,673 animal. It just feels a little bit sad to know that there's 120 00:07:06,693 --> 00:07:09,574 these amazing beautiful animals right up our coast but then you 121 00:07:09,574 --> 00:07:13,036 know they can still fall foul to getting caught in nets. 122 00:07:13,916 --> 00:07:16,657 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Is the problem with cryptic species. We often 123 00:07:16,737 --> 00:07:19,858 only really know they're there when they're dead. And for 124 00:07:19,898 --> 00:07:23,260 Thresher sharks, we know almost nothing about their lives. 125 00:07:23,860 --> 00:07:27,161 MOLLY KRESSLER: Threshers are a pelagic species, which means 126 00:07:27,181 --> 00:07:30,003 that they spend most of their life out in kind of what is 127 00:07:30,063 --> 00:07:33,364 described as the high seas. What that means is the further from 128 00:07:33,544 --> 00:07:37,686 shore, the further from humans' realm of day-to-day operations a 129 00:07:37,726 --> 00:07:41,887 species exists, the harder it is, the more cryptic it is, to 130 00:07:42,168 --> 00:07:42,908 understand. 131 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,701 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: And this is a problem with many of the sharks 132 00:07:45,721 --> 00:07:48,822 that Molly studies. She's determined that there has to be 133 00:07:48,822 --> 00:07:52,063 a way to get more information. And to do that, she needs to 134 00:07:52,083 --> 00:07:54,764 find a method that a lot of people can use. 135 00:07:57,726 --> 00:08:00,887 After moving to Cornwall to study for her PhD, she attends a 136 00:08:00,907 --> 00:08:03,808 conference and comes across a government study that's using 137 00:08:04,008 --> 00:08:08,530 EDNA, or environmental DNA, to search for the presence of fish. 138 00:08:10,431 --> 00:08:14,112 EDNA looks for tiny bits of DNA in the water. Like searching 139 00:08:14,112 --> 00:08:17,254 your shower plug for hair. There are methods with medical-grade 140 00:08:17,294 --> 00:08:20,635 filters, but they're too expensive and complicated to be 141 00:08:20,715 --> 00:08:23,816 done on a large scale, especially if the species you're 142 00:08:23,816 --> 00:08:27,818 looking for is out on the high seas. But at the conference, she 143 00:08:27,898 --> 00:08:30,199 came across the Metaprobe. 144 00:08:32,660 --> 00:08:35,261 MOLLY KRESSLER: This is a 3D-printed sphere. It kind of 145 00:08:35,281 --> 00:08:38,903 looks like the Death Star. And inside are rolls of gauze. The 146 00:08:38,923 --> 00:08:42,204 grocery store sometimes has it. It's much more affordable. And I 147 00:08:42,224 --> 00:08:45,945 just, I saw the method and I think that the gauze-based might 148 00:08:45,945 --> 00:08:48,406 be really powerful in answering some questions about shark 149 00:08:48,466 --> 00:08:48,866 ecology. 150 00:08:50,907 --> 00:08:53,447 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Molly knew she would need help, but she didn't 151 00:08:53,467 --> 00:08:56,388 just want to test the samples. She wanted people to know more 152 00:08:56,448 --> 00:09:00,530 about the sharks that drift through our coastlines. She 153 00:09:00,610 --> 00:09:03,971 wanted someone who could take the work and keep telling people 154 00:09:04,071 --> 00:09:08,052 about the incredible species that are there, day after day. 155 00:09:11,864 --> 00:09:15,485 JENNY SIMPSON: We had an email from Molly and asked if we would 156 00:09:15,525 --> 00:09:18,566 help with her data collection. So she's looking for something 157 00:09:18,606 --> 00:09:23,027 called EDNA and it helps them to identify what species have been 158 00:09:23,447 --> 00:09:24,407 around our coast, basically. 159 00:09:24,968 --> 00:09:27,168 MOLLY KRESSLER: So when they go out to do wildlife tours, I 160 00:09:27,168 --> 00:09:29,949 would go out, take some water samples. One of my favourite 161 00:09:29,949 --> 00:09:32,850 things about going out with Padstow and Jenny was the fact 162 00:09:32,870 --> 00:09:35,770 that every time I was able to talk a bit about it, answer 163 00:09:35,811 --> 00:09:38,491 questions and also get to do my science. 164 00:09:38,771 --> 00:09:41,472 Hopefully we'll be publishing the paper this year. But, the 165 00:09:41,492 --> 00:09:45,279 kind of short version is that we found that the gauze-based 166 00:09:45,359 --> 00:09:48,785 method performs just as well as the medical method. 167 00:09:49,526 --> 00:09:52,612 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: That means the Metaprobe, the Death Star full 168 00:09:52,612 --> 00:09:57,312 of gauze found sharks. Porbeagles, Mako, and the 169 00:09:57,392 --> 00:09:58,573 dopey-faced Thresher. 170 00:09:59,813 --> 00:10:01,935 MOLLY KRESSLER: That means that it's much more accessible. One 171 00:10:01,955 --> 00:10:04,737 part of the project that we looked at was having citizen 172 00:10:05,057 --> 00:10:08,620 scientists, sailors around Cornwall take the Metaprobe out 173 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,741 with them and sample with it and collect samples. 174 00:10:11,322 --> 00:10:13,883 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: For Molly, accessibility and people's 175 00:10:13,923 --> 00:10:17,026 ability to engage with the Metaprobe is central to its 176 00:10:17,086 --> 00:10:17,566 design. 177 00:10:18,467 --> 00:10:21,309 MOLLY KRESSLER: So I'm disabled. I have a congenital birth 178 00:10:21,349 --> 00:10:25,231 defect. I'm missing four fingers on my left hand. And so I kind 179 00:10:25,231 --> 00:10:29,292 of have always faced this barrier to entry, not because 180 00:10:29,933 --> 00:10:33,414 I'm incapable of entering, but because of people's perception. 181 00:10:34,215 --> 00:10:36,656 I've encountered experiences in the field before where people 182 00:10:36,656 --> 00:10:39,797 have outright told me that they know I can't do something and 183 00:10:39,797 --> 00:10:42,719 therefore I shouldn't be given the opportunity to do it. I'll 184 00:10:42,719 --> 00:10:45,080 just say I've proved them wrong every time. There was one 185 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:48,958 instance where we had a three and a half meter. Adult male 186 00:10:49,038 --> 00:10:50,098 shark along the side of the boat. 187 00:10:50,139 --> 00:10:52,621 And what you do is you have to hold them half out of the water 188 00:10:52,641 --> 00:10:55,383 by the dorsal fin. I'll never forget that moment hanging off 189 00:10:55,363 --> 00:10:58,085 the side of the boat because I had the feeling in my head as I 190 00:10:58,105 --> 00:11:01,288 was losing grip on that dorsal fin of this is where they're 191 00:11:01,288 --> 00:11:02,488 going to disqualify me. 192 00:11:03,629 --> 00:11:07,252 To have somebody, a mentor who just said, it's fine. There's 193 00:11:07,292 --> 00:11:10,275 something else you can do. You can still take lead on this 194 00:11:10,335 --> 00:11:13,898 shark. And so when I was coming up with the field packs for the 195 00:11:13,898 --> 00:11:16,720 metaprobes, I put materials in there that could be understood 196 00:11:16,780 --> 00:11:17,721 by children. 197 00:11:18,141 --> 00:11:21,403 Adults with mental or learning disabilities, as well as, you 198 00:11:21,403 --> 00:11:24,986 know, your quote-unquote normal adults. And I was really pleased 199 00:11:25,026 --> 00:11:27,327 because all the feedback was it was easy, it was 200 00:11:27,347 --> 00:11:29,789 straightforward, and the kids loved it. And the kids found it 201 00:11:29,789 --> 00:11:31,350 really interesting and they had more questions. 202 00:11:34,452 --> 00:11:37,454 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: The ocean is not our world. Everyone, no 203 00:11:37,575 --> 00:11:40,156 matter their ability, needs specialist equipment to be 204 00:11:40,256 --> 00:11:43,659 there. So the accessibility limits are ones that we design. 205 00:11:43,959 --> 00:11:46,781 To find these elusive sharks requires everyone. 206 00:11:47,741 --> 00:11:50,303 MOLLY KRESSLER: A lot of populations are endangered, 207 00:11:50,403 --> 00:11:53,125 critically endangered, but a large proportion of sharks we 208 00:11:53,145 --> 00:11:56,288 don't have enough data on. If we don't know about them, we can't 209 00:11:56,308 --> 00:11:57,568 help them, we can't protect them. 210 00:11:58,709 --> 00:12:02,712 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: But despite all this, their huge diversity and 211 00:12:02,712 --> 00:12:07,116 their increasing fragility, it's undeniable that in the UK we're 212 00:12:07,196 --> 00:12:10,999 still scared of sharks. We're scared of the filter-feeding 213 00:12:11,039 --> 00:12:13,961 basking sharks and that dopey-faced Thresher. 214 00:12:19,229 --> 00:12:21,812 JENNY SIMPSON: The more people think they're scary, the less 215 00:12:22,312 --> 00:12:24,414 they'll be interested in their conservation. 216 00:12:25,816 --> 00:12:29,439 Whereas actually, if you find out more about all their little 217 00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:32,022 superpowers, and some of them are really fast, and some of 218 00:12:32,042 --> 00:12:36,686 them use their tails like a whip to catch their prey. And so 219 00:12:37,487 --> 00:12:39,409 hopefully the more people know about them, the more they're 220 00:12:39,429 --> 00:12:42,212 around, the more we can talk about them, the more people will 221 00:12:42,252 --> 00:12:43,373 love them, maybe, hopefully. 222 00:12:57,949 --> 00:13:00,791 ROSIE HOLDWORTH: Thanks for joining me in this Wild Tale. Do 223 00:13:00,811 --> 00:13:03,952 you have an amazing story about the natural world? I'd love to 224 00:13:03,992 --> 00:13:09,295 hear from you. You can find us on Instagram @wildtalesnt, where 225 00:13:09,315 --> 00:13:12,557 you'll also find behind the scenes moments, nature's giants 226 00:13:12,657 --> 00:13:16,819 and the micro wonders that make our world the place it is. Use 227 00:13:16,819 --> 00:13:21,162 the hashtag wildtaleswednesdays or email podcasts at 228 00:13:21,322 --> 00:13:25,624 nationaltrust.org.UK to send us pictures and stories of the 229 00:13:25,744 --> 00:13:26,765 wildness around you. 230 00:13:29,273 --> 00:13:32,475 Make sure you get every episode by following Wild Tales on your 231 00:13:32,555 --> 00:13:36,238 favourite podcast app. Even better, leave us a review or 232 00:13:36,298 --> 00:13:40,300 comment on an episode. I'd love to hear what you think. Did you 233 00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:43,863 know we also do video podcasts? They can be found on our YouTube 234 00:13:43,903 --> 00:13:47,165 channel or on Spotify. While you're there, why not check out 235 00:13:47,185 --> 00:13:50,967 our history show, Back When, or for smaller ears, Ranger Ray and 236 00:13:50,947 --> 00:13:53,469 the Wildlifeers. See you next time.