Nasrine Djemai final 27/02
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Siddo: Welcome

to The Better Places podcast, where we explore London's political landscape and its impact on planning, housing and communities. Today we're joined by someone whose career trajectory has been nothing [00:01:00] short of remarkable. Councillor Nasrine Djemai, Camden's Cabinet member for New Homes and Community Investment.

Nasrine, thank you for the time.

Nasrine: My pleasure.

Siddo: Nasrine's story deeply intertwined with Camden's community Investment programme. A policy that's not only transformed her own life, but one that she now steers at the highest level. From working as a community liaison officer at Camden Council, catching the attention of HS2 bosses and the borough's leadership to her rapid rise through the ranks, Nasrine has been at the forefront of some of the toughest challenges in local government. Elected in just 2022, she quickly became a cabinet advisor on violence against women and girls, retain her position on the Borough's Planning Committee, and now leads one of the most ambitious council housing building and investment programmes in the capital. at just 27, she may well be Camden's youngest of a cabinet member, tackling some of the borough's most entrenched housing challenges, a trajectory that mirrors her former borough leader, [00:02:00] now a Minister of the Crown, helping direct the new Labour Government's plan for change with a background as a constituency manager to some of the most prominent Labour women in politics, Nasrine understands the human impact of policy, whether it's homelessness, affordability, and community resilience.

Today we will hear her insights on Camden's approach to house building, sustainability and tackling inequality. And explore what the future holds for one of London's most dynamic and perhaps, uh, hipster type boroughs. Councillor Djemai, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. That's not a problem.

do you know what, I think it would be good for us to actually start and to learn a bit more about you. so what drew you as a. Community liaison lead, speaking to and working alongside many of your own neighbours, to standing and now leading one of, as I mentioned just now [00:03:00] one of it, ambitious council housing building programme in the country.

That is a great question. Siddo, where do I start? I think we have to take a couple of steps back to inform. How I got here to begin with. So, I've lived in Camden all my life. I was born and raised there, proud Camdonian and was it Camdonian or not Camdener or Camdonian? Um, so yeah, lived there all my life. Lived on my estate all my life.

Still do now. So, I have a lot of love for that place. It's home. how did I become a community liaison officer? So. When I was as young as 12, I found out this huge project called High Speed two was going to inevitably be our neighbor. And I just happened to live in one of the three blocks that they needed to knock down.

Wow. In order to start the project that would end up going up to Birmingham. [00:04:00] And obviously the original plan now scrapped, would've gone up to Leeds and basically connected the north with the south. So already I was quite exposed to higher level politics, if you will, in the sense that I learned at a really young age that if you live in a council block specifically, it's very easy to just.

Be picked up and moved to anywhere. and I remember really vividly going to a community meeting and there were high speed two representatives. There was the leader of the counselor at the time who happens to be my counselor and I am his counselor. Oh, wow. It was very full circle, full circle. Full circle moment there.

And our late mp, Frank Dobson, who everyone adored. Mm. Like no one ever had a bad thing to say about him, and even to this day, they still remember him in high regard. I know you speak of him fondly, and I, I wonder what those inspirations that you'd come across led you to that [00:05:00] moment? I mean. When I think about my family's background and some of the hardships that they've had to face, I know there was someone somewhere, whether that be a caseworker in an MP's office or an officer in the council who was able to help them get onto the social housing ladder to begin with.

originally they were private tenants and unfortunately, like many other private tenants across the country, they, they faced eviction. so. It was the small, moments where they were helped by someone, either by an MP's office or in the council. That kind of inspired me to get into public service as well, knowing that I could potentially have that same impact for someone else.

just knowing I've transformed one life or bettered the life chances of one person is what I really wanted to be able to do. And you, you, you just. Touching on that story there, were you [00:06:00] presenting or perhaps speaking to a room full of, engineers, consultants, the leadership of the council? Tell us a bit more about that story.

'cause I've heard it before, but I think our readers and our listeners, would be intrigued to hear your perspective. Yeah. So this was the early days of HST, like back in 2010 . yeah. and again, I was really, really small. I went with my dad, 'cause they were holding a community meeting and there was about, I'd say a good 150 people in that room.

and it was essentially informing residents of what was going to come and the likelihood of our flats being knocked down. And I remember really vividly like. The older residents who, some were war veterans, so they'd fought for this country during Worlds World War I and ii, and they just said, where are you going to move me?

Like it was as stark as that. Where are you going to move me? And from that moment I just thought, okay, as a 12-year-old, I'm looking up, I'm looking at my dad, I'm looking up [00:07:00] all of my neighbours who are my friends as well, and I'm thinking, okay, this is really, really serious. And so while this was going on at home with the prospect of having to be moved out of my community because of HS2, I also had my school who was, due to receive the funding for the Schools for Future Scheme.

And you had Grove at the time who just come into government saying, no more good schools. Oh, I remember. Yeah, exactly. So it was, those were really informative years. 'cause on the one hand, at home we had all this, all this uproar in terms of potentially losing our community. And on the other we had to fight to make sure that my school was going to be rebuilt as well.

so you could say, I've been surrounded by. Politics and development and regeneration practically all my life, because that's all I know. and same with high-speed two. Now, like I, they still, they're still doing their construction right next to where I now live, which is a replacement home that was delivered by the community investment programme.

So that for me is a really full circle [00:08:00] moment because I went from being that 12-year-old, going to those consultation events, going to those engagement events, meeting architects, meeting council officers, meeting local representatives, meeting the local MP to. Then becoming a local rep? No, actually becoming a council officer, working for my neighbours who are still impacted by HS2 and my community to then becoming a counselor whose ward is also impacted by HS2 to then becoming the lead member for the portfolio.

Mm-hmm. That. Essentially built the replacement home that I now live in. So it is a very full circle moment because I know just how transformative it can be to go from old overcrowded council housing to new, bigger, spacious, more modern council housing. and if I know at firsthand how it's transformed my life.

I know for a fact it can do that for many other children growing up in Camden. You know, I, I two questions and in research in this podcast, and [00:09:00] although, I know you and we, we've spoken at length about some of your own journey and some of the work that you are conducting, I fell into a rabbit hole read in your annual report of the current member for new homes and community investment, and there was a particular line that struck me not least.

Because of my own journey, with housing, albeit not council housing, but the struggle of moving homes quite frequently. I read here that you said There are not enough words to describe the restoration of dignity and the revised sense of purpose our new homes deliver.

And I think just on those two points, you said that there were not enough words, but you, you told me a story once about a recording that you played.

Nasrine: Oh yes, the infamous recording.

So when I was a community liaison officer, we did a massive presentation to. Very senior members of high speed rail up in Birmingham, and the presentation they, they were hosting it and they wanted the lived experience angle [00:10:00] to what was happening on the ground, and it was called respecting people, respecting places.

This was back in 2021 and I just thought. This is such a huge honor and privilege to be able to essentially be the voice of my community and really relay what the lived experience is like on the ground. So I thought me, my neighbours, my friends, my family have to wake up every single day to some sort of construction, some sort of road closure, some sort of construction noise.

So I thought, what was the best way to put them in the shoes of residents who live in my community? So I got all of the recordings that residents sent us throughout lockdown because they had to live right next to the construction. and you can feel the vibrations in the video clips. So I asked a room about, of about 200 people, including the CEO at the time, mark Thurston, to close their eyes at nine o'clock in the morning.

and I just said, imagine you've just woken up. You [00:11:00] can hear a few birds chirping outside your window, and then before you know it, this is what you hear next. And they just heard rumbling and the whole room shook. And it was, it was, it was a very revealing moment because after we did that presentation.

People just came up to me and said, thank you for putting me in the shoes of those residents who have to live this day in, day out. And I think that's what my role is, essentially, not only as a counselor but as a public servant, is to put our residents voices at the forefront. Of everything that we seek to deliver, but also making sure that other stakeholders understand who our communities are, what our communities are, and the experiences that they face.

And you, you sat before a number of committees, uh, in the past week and for those who listen to the podcast and we also have Salvatore, who's our new producer today. He works here at Concilio, but also sits on committees in [00:12:00] his local town council. I'm always acutely aware of the impact and as you often talk about the lived experience that you find, in the construction of new homes, which are essential and I think that there's no doubt about that.

But there are two points here. It is round. I think for me, and here at Consular, it's bringing communities along with you on that journey, but it's also what comes at the end of that and what the outcome of it is. I know Camden's recently announced an additional 1.3 billion pounds of investment into the sip, which is an extraordinary number and something that I think you've probably been proud to sign off.

I wonder if you could tell us a bit more about the number of homes that you are planning to deliver but also that quality control and what that means to you. I just wanna go back a bit on how you opened. The question because you said bringing communities along for me, not only do I want to bring them along, I want them to lead.

I want them to lead the way because they are the [00:13:00] experts in their communities. They are the experts in their own design. I want them to be the masters of their own fate. I'm here to give that platform. Essentially I'm steered by what my residents want and I want what my residents want . the community investment programme, as you. Rightly said is very ambitious. I think since its inception in 2010 we've achieved several key milestones. We've delivered over 1,750 new homes which has significantly helped address the growing housing demand in Camden.

We've got massive estate regeneration project. Is currently in the pipeline. So for example, there's one in my own ward, west Kentish town. And the whole purpose of it is to revitalize older estates and create better living conditions, which my residents tell me day in, day out. That's exactly what they want.

Where continuously evolving and a lot of what we've delivered now, such as the Agar Grove Estate, which I'm sure you've [00:14:00] heard about, is, um, the outcome of. How we've grown since 2010. It's matured in, in the sense that the community investment programme originally was in reaction to a lot of cuts that the previous conservative government were making to local governments.

And it's since been able to deliver so many new homes. And one thing that I always try and, remind anyone that I'm speaking to, especially if it's other councillors or other local authorities, is we now have a Labour government working with the Labour administration and a Labour mayor, which is. A triple threat, and it's probably everyone's dream they've been wishing for the last 14 years, but I don't want us to lose sight of that resilience that we've built over the last 14 years because if we've managed to deliver these homes off the back of being innovative and adapting to our environment.

Imagine what we can do, not only with that resilience, but with the partnerships [00:15:00] that we now have. And I'm really, really optimistic about what the future holds. I think just on that point this programme sit, the community investment programme has been running since 2010. I wonder how has the sip in your view, evolved to meet the change in needs of Camden and on that quality point?

Are there any, some of the more recent projects completed on the programme that you're, you're particularly proud of? Do you know? I'm proud of all of them. I think, I don't think there's, there's a one size fits all approach. I think the community investment programme is a programme in itself, but it adapts to the areas in which it's seeking to deliver.

So, for example, tie boards, which is an estate down in Holburn. This phase included the delivery of 10 social rented homes in the under builds of three blocks. So it was an infill site. What they did was they saw what we already had in terms of assets and they thought, how can we be as efficient as possible in [00:16:00] maximizing all of the space that we have?

We've got Agar Grove, which is the state down in Camden Square and we've delivered over 125 homes, 55% of which are affordable, and it's won so many awards since then. Quite prestigious ones actually. And in terms of quality, that's one of the key things that I said. The moment that I got selected and then put into cabinet because I know exactly.

What it's like to move into new builds, but then to also see potential issues come out of that. Oh, absolutely. I think a lot of our listeners can resonate with that. No, exactly. I think it's about being realistic as well, and saying, acknowledging where there are issues, but also learning and building from them.

So for example, the new build that I live in was delivered in 2018. And since then, they've taken the learning curves out of that and implemented them into new homes that they've delivered since. And affordable housing obviously remains a critical issue in Camden, although [00:17:00] Camden approves a lot of private developments.

I wonder what innovative solutions is the council implementing to really address this need. And how are you working with private partners to deliver on your ambitions? I mean, we're a borough that is very open to partnerships. Where we can directly deliver, we do. But that doesn't stop us from being colLabourative.

So for example, we've got Kaley Street where we've just signed a partnership with lateral and bmore. And yeah, I think it is. It simply put, it's about being open and willing to work colLabouratively and ensuring that colLabouration ultimately is in the best interests of the communities that we serve.

And we've touched quite a lot about, touched a lot on, long term permanent housing, but only recently you were at the unveiling of new temporary accommodation developments across two sites. How do you think these projects are helping to alleviate the pressures on ta and [00:18:00] what are your longer term aspirations for a programme like that?

The fact that we have to is 2025 and we have to talk about temporary accommodation in itself is quite, which is such a misnomer. It's heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking to think that we've reached a state where temporary accommodation, and let's be honest, temporary accommodation isn't always temporary.

Nasrine: People end up living there for a really long time. So I think for me, for us in Camden, how can we make sure that our communities are staying. In their communities and living as comfortably as possible. And that's what these 89 homes seek to do. They seek to still be able to provide high quality homes in the interim whilst we find more permanent and stable homes for our residents.

And I'm really proud that we're taking that direct action. I think unfortunately there, there has been a business that's been made out of the temporary accommodation crisis, and I don't want taxpayers money going to pay for hotels. I want that to stay [00:19:00] in our community. I want that to be reinvested in our community.

And again, that's what these homes seek to do. But in the long term, I want to be able to say that I'm delivering more permanent homes. Because I think this is just the temporary accommodation crisis is one small aspect of the overall larger scale crisis, which is the ultimate housing crisis. So my dream is that everyone is moving into permanent homes and not having to go through temporary in order to reach that permanent home.

I know your, council is currently consulting or indeed, in the pro process of it. Implementing its new, local plan. I wonder where does, that kind of long-term drive, Where does the council see its, housing programme in the longer term? So in the, 15 year period. And I wonder on that sustainability aspect, as I know it's a key focus for Camden, a lot of London boroughs,how does that fit in?

Well, I said, actually, I [00:20:00] said this in, one of my scrutiny committees a couple of nights ago, because one thing that I get tad bit concerned about is that we focus so heavily on numbers in this day and age, like we know we've got a really ambitious Labour government who wants to deliver 1.5 million homes on message.

We've got a very ambitious council and community investment programme that wants to deliver over 4,850 homes and. They've got an ambitious cabinet member who wants to deliver more than that. So I think the fact you didn't even have to look at a screen or paper to remember that. You, you are briefed.

Well, it's ingrained in my heart. Siddo, what can I say? Yeah, I just, I want to urge caution on one hand because I think if we get too fixated on numbers, not that it's not good to have targets, we might lose sight of. What we're actually seeking to do, which is to transform lives through delivering stable homes.

In terms of what happens next, because this [00:21:00] target seems like a bit of a cliffhanger, so we've got a target of 4,850, and then we've reached it and then what next? But we are one of the biggest landlords in the country. We're the fourth biggest in the country. We have over 23,000 homes that we directly manage ourselves, and that is aging stock.

So I don't see the community investment programme going anywhere post 2030. Once we deliver that target, I think it's going to be bolder and more ambitious. Mm. As we proceed to manage all of our homes and decide where there is scope for retrofit or where there is scope for redevelopment. So yeah, it was just more of a nuance to this.

Discussion when it comes to how many homes can you deliver? And I find, what I find the most fascinating and remarkable actually, is when you speak to other borrowers and they tell you we're delivering this many homes how many are you delivering? And there's like a little, it is really funny because there's a bit of a comparison competition there.

And sometimes I'm just like, you know, everything is [00:22:00] a case by case basis. Each borough has its own unique landscape and a borough like Camden, which when I look at all 32 boroughs and I look at how. Small Camden is in comparison to some others. There's so much going on. It never feels that small, but geographically it is small.

So one thing that I think we have to straddle is where exactly are we going to build moving forward? Because we don't have. As many Brownfield sites, we've used all of them, frankly, compared to other outer London boroughs like barking or Havening or Enfield or Enfield. Indeed. So that's one thing that we constantly have to straddle, which I think is quite niche to in a London boroughs.

And I wonder just on that point, there are quite a number of financial pressures that lots of councils are having to. to deal with, whether it's the implementation of the Build Safety Act which is a necessary, measure, for two staircase calls, but also some of the added pressures there. I just wanna come back a little on [00:23:00] sustainability.

The Regis road growth areas, quite an ambitious one, and it's one of Camden's largest remaining development areas. Can you share a bit more about this vision? for the area and the progress that you've made so far. So, of course. So as you've said, the of growth area is one of Camden's largest remaining development zones.

If you ever, if you're ever down in Camden one day, more than happy to show you where it is. I'm more than happy to come along, because it's nestled between Kentish Town, which is so lively and vibrant. Then you've got my ward in Haverstock then you've got GOs Oak. so it is. It is quite, it is like an island in itself and there's so much going on there, but not everyone knows unless they venture down.

So we've got plans for new homes, affordable housing, employment spaces, and social infrastructure in that area. In 2023, we entered a land sale agreement with Yoo Capital, who's a developer investor. So that's just another example of how we try and work in. Partnership with other stakeholders to drive the regeneration [00:24:00] in Holmes Road Depot and the Regis Road Recycling Center sites.

So Yoo Capital is currently developing a vision for the Camden Film Quarter with community engagement and colLabouration with. Camden's place and design service. So this has resulted in a draft Regis road area guidance, which aligns with our overall Kentish town planning framework and public consultation on the draft was completed last year and we've got the final guidance.

Which will be decided in early 2025. So what I think we're trying to do there is again, use all of the assets that we have in the most efficient and smartest way possible to make sure that all of our communities have an equal stake in it as well. That's really, really impressive. And we certainly look forward to, the publication of the final strategy.

I think just going on to community engagement, ' cause you touched on that, but want to really talk about one kilburn. Which is a grassroots community partnership that has grown significantly [00:25:00] since its inception. How has this initiative been shaped and helped to nurture a sense of community and real belonging in that part of Camden.

Over in Kilburn. So as you've said, it's a grassroots community initiative that aims to foster a sense of belonging and kill them. By engaging local residents and supporting community driven activities. It was launched in 2022 as a community improvement district pilot with the support from Camden, Brent, and the GLA, the Greater London authority.

The project has since grown to include over 300 members and 50 active colLabourators across various. Groups. So the one Kilburn Community Fund supported by local people and grant funding has funded projects like Kilburn in Motion, a local film project and sociable seats, which promotes social connection for older adults.

So essentially it's all about, again, giving our communities and our residents that autonomy and that ability to deliver themselves [00:26:00] directly. It gives them that leadership role. The initiative also activate Kilburn Grange. Play Heart providing community activities and the cafe. So more spaces for our communities to be able to use.

And there'll be plans for further community development to include assessing vacant spaces. So again, they take the leadership on what we do with vacant spaces. Is this the Estate Vacant Spaces programme? This is creating a neighborhood hub and the estates, yeah, the estates. Vacant Spaces programme.

And that's an interesting programme. I wonder if you could touch on that a little bit. And I think there's a common theme here, Camden's it's a small borough, but certainly not in its might reputation authority in. And just some of the work that it's doing really intrigued by not just neighborhood hubs and the state's vacant programme, but I wonder how are you really using some of these spaces, or even the little place workspace which is one of your first workspace facilities.

What is it [00:27:00] about Camden and finding quite unique ways to utilize the space that you have? I think to start off with, like you said. We are small geographically, but we're big in character and our former leader. Georgia Gould, who's now an mp, and the cabinet minister used to say, and we still do say that we've got rebellious spirit.

So the sky really is the limit when it comes to us and we test boundaries. And that's the same with what we seek to deliver and making sure that we are using all our spaces as effectively as possible. You brought up the Neighborhood Hubs and Estate Vacant Spaces programme, which seeks to activate council owned properties for local social action and focusing on community colLabouration and social enterprise.

So if residents can see a space and they want to use it, why not? The space is there. We've got amazing residents with amazing ideas. They just need. The platforms to be [00:28:00] able to explore them and make them a reality. Both programme emphasize co-creation with residents and aim to foster participation, innovation, and shared power.

And I think it's the shared power that it's not even local authorities giving residents that power. It's. Working with residents to actually say, you have the power here. This is your home. These are your communities. We're here to offer that platform and support you in activating them. Yeah, and it's really interesting that products like that are not just supporting local businesses, but generating an income for a lot of catch strapped councils.

The other day I saw that you were at the new or pilot street market. Which has played a kind of vital role to your local economy and obviously feeding a lot of the nearby developments. The new people that are moving in to those places on know what initiatives are currently in place to support.

Those local market traders and [00:29:00] promote some sustainable practices in street trading, which is quite a big theme in Camden. I mean, I'm really glad that you mentioned that particular street market. It was our first ever evening street market. Oh really? That launched in Camden. And frankly put, it was so much fun.

It was really good to just. Be out, especially in the evening where we've had loads of young people come and enjoy themselves. A lot of traders and Camden Street markets are a vital part of our local economy, and they generate approximately 1.4 million in income from various trading positions.

So to support these markets. Camden has introduced several initiatives including the Young Traders Market campaign the Future Neighborhoods programme, and the Love Your Local Market campaign. So these are all efforts to provide opportunities for new traders, especially young entrepreneurs and to support local events like the Camden Block Party and Pride Queer Artists,

sorry, sorry, the Camden Block Party?

You should calm down whenever.

Tell me, tell me more.

[00:30:00] Whenever we have another block fight, I can't, you'll have to see it for yourself. Siddo. I can't, I don't wanna spoil it for your listeners as well. They all, they'll have to search it and then come down when we have the next one.

That is do you know again, Camden's one of those places that just building lots of homes where you're creating lots of places?

Absolutely. And it's. It is. Yeah. I sometimes see the, the feed of a lot of your, um, council colleagues and even Camden itself. And you guys just seem to have quite a lot of fun. You work hard, but you also play hard, which is good.

Absolutely. We're a vibrant borrower and our council reflects that vibrancy as well

. Looking ahead and actually in closing, what are your key priorities in Camden over in the next few years? And you've just ascent a cabinet, but I think you'll, you'll probably have a very long and fruitful career. In the borough and try and your best with your colleagues to, to shape its future.

How do you plan to achieve that?

I would just start off by [00:31:00] saying nothing is promised. I mean, my role as a cabinet member is incumbent on the thousands of people that come out to elections and vote for us, and I think the same people who essentially hired me are the same people who can sack me. So we've got a year out until we reach the elections, and I want to work to complete our manifesto pledges that we went to the.

Electorate with in 2022. So I think those, that's like the biggest priority at this moment in time. Making sure that we've delivered everything that we promised we would, and if we haven't working and essentially making sure that the next set of elections, we do all that we can to ensure that we're continuing to build on that reputation of actually being able to deliver.

Um, I think the key priority for me is. Essentially delivering as many new homes as possible and making sure the community investment is going where it needs to go. And how do I plan to achieve this? Well, essentially working with my [00:32:00] residents to make sure that we're delivering exactly what they want and where it's needed.

It's not a top down approach. It is very much hearing what our residents on the ground have to. Say and have what their desires are essentially, and working in colLabouration with them to do that. Well, thank you so much. Councillor Miah. It's been fascinating to hear your journey from someone whose life, was shaped by Camden's investment in council housing to now leading that very programme in cabinet.

You're working on affordable housing, sustainability, and community investment is clearly making a tangible difference. Not just in Camden, but in set an example for local authorities across the country. As we look ahead, it's clear that the housing crisis remains one of the biggest challenges in local government.

And indeed for us in our industry, we're doing all that we can to help the government to meet its housing target and indeed to exceed it. But Camden is shown what can be done with bold leadership some innovative thinking and strong community [00:33:00] engagement, and. I think your rapid rise through the ranks the policies you are shaping and Camden's commitment to its future are really something that, that is an exciting story, to follow.

So thank you for joining us and we look forward to seeing how Camden continues, to lead the way. Councillor Djemai Nasrine, it's been great having you on the show. It's been great to be here. Thank you.