Faith Over 60
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Joyous Journeys over 60. I'm Jane Rae and I'm here with my podcast partner, Andrea Stein. Jane, how are you doing? I am doing very well. It is a beautiful day here in Fort Myers, Florida. Perfect in February. So for those of you that are maybe up north and looking out your window at some snow, Andreas and I are very happily looking out at palm trees and sunshine. 85 degrees it is 85 degrees. So again, if you're ever in Fort Myers, please come in and visit us, particularly in February. Um, today we're going to talk about, I think, a really interesting, um, and very relevant topic, perhaps a little different than some of the things we've talked about in previous episodes. And that's faith over 60. You know, before we started recording, we talked about your faith journey. Your spirituality is very unique to you. And certainly, Andreas, you and I have had kind of Kind of interesting of faith journeys throughout our own, our own lives. You have really been on a very interesting journey. I always love listening to you and the detours and the different directions your journey took you on. Yeah. Uh, again, I'm covered on a lot of basis, but, you know, as you as you start to approach 60 and beyond, I think you are the sum of your experiences and and never more so than your faith experiences. So I think we'll start off by just sharing our experiences, because even though you're a pastor, your road was not necessarily linear either. You know, I as you hear my accent, I was born and raised in Germany, in north central Germany. Hometown is Hanover. And, uh, back there. I was born, raised into, you know, the Roman Catholic Church and really never made any bad experiences or made good experiences, but, you know, not necessarily very powerful experiences. Uh, even though in hindsight I look back on some experiences and recognize now, yeah, that I might have experienced. I probably did experience God's presence in those moments. But then my journey took me from the Roman Catholic Church, and I, uh, became a member. And this was truly my most influential, um, you know, most powerful spiritual time in my life. Probably when I was about 18, 19, 20 years old, joined still in Germany, you know, a local Baptist congregation, a very lively, very energetic congregation. And it was for me a time of of truly experiencing in my own life, um, God's presence and power in ways that I could not have even imagined before. And it wasn't so much what any one particular person said, or things I did or didn't do, but it was just such an awareness and an experience of of that love and closeness and intimacy of God that it just changed everything in my life. And and as the journey continued and my wife and I moved, uh, from Germany over into the Midwest of the United States, and now in Florida, uh, you know, we, uh, I became a pastor and yet again, a different, uh, faith tradition, um, the Lutheran tradition and and really what? What drew me into this tradition was this emphasis, um, on just grace and unconditional love and a love of God that really heals whatever scars and disappointments they're in, in my life. So I you're right. I crossed a lot of spiritual lines in my life, and I'm thankful for all the experiences. I'm thankful for where I'm at today. Now, you have crossed a lot of lines, Jane. Right? Uh, yeah. Yeah, probably a little different than than, uh, yours. Uh, some of you may or may not know, but I was born Jewish, and I am still in my heart, carry a lot of Jewish traditions. Uh, more heritage than than spiritual. And in my 20s, um, I, I can't actually really tell you the specific reason why. Uh, but I got baptized in a Catholic church, and, um, I just within my own, uh, within my own calling, really, if you want to think about that. Um, I just felt it was something I was compelled to do. And then, uh, when I married, um, I married a man of Lutheran family. He wasn't very religious, but, um, I felt my children would benefit from having A family tradition, a spiritual tradition that I couldn't give them. Um, and so we got involved in the Lutheran church, and, um, this nice little Jewish girl from Brooklyn eventually became president of the church council. And, uh, here I am doing a podcast with, uh, our pastor. Uh, so. Yeah. But but I think, you know, the message here is not, you know, which denomination or which spirituality or which faith based, um, is. Right. Because that's that's not what we're all about anyway. Right. Um, so it's not, as is Christian, better than Jewish as Jewish, better than Muslim? No. Your faith journey, your spirituality, your relationship with God, however you perceive God or whatever faith, um, based, uh, community you belong to is unique. And and I think God wants that from us. I think, you know, our relationship with God is, is is unique to us. And, and I know personally through challenges and betrayals and other parts of my life. Um, you know, I've had questions. Um, you know, I think all of us go through some type of questioning, uh, in our life about our faith. Um, maybe, you know, uh, we've been angry, um, with God, but I think, um, and I was telling you before I read an article that even in the farthest reaches of the Earth. There is still a sense of deity. There's still a sense of God. And so as you get to this age, and I mean, frankly, your life journey is not at the beginning, right? It's not at the end, but it's not at the beginning, maybe not even in the middle. Um, that really assessing your faith to to focus on your faith, um, becomes more important. You know, there are certain experiences in life. Few, but they are there that are truly universal. It doesn't matter what culture, what country you live in. And they are timeless. It doesn't matter when you were born, even if you would have been born 3000 years ago. Among these universal, timeless experiences is making sense out of illness. No matter when you were born or where you live. Illness is a reality. Now it is age when we are 25 years old. We have the sniffles. We are fine. It's a nuisance. You lay down a day or two and you control it with some aspirin or whatever you take, and you're good. You know, once you get 60 and Joyce journeys over 60. Once you get 60 and then illness takes on a slightly different perspective. Suddenly there are certain elements of illness. You realize I may not be able to control this, and actually, maybe not even the doctors may be able to control it. And of course, we go to every doctor, every medical expert that we can think of. But then sometimes we reach the point where we realize all of that, that illness may still be stronger than what I what can control, um, the reality of mortality and death and dying is universal or timeless. And when we are 20 and strong and healthy and life is easy, it's just a theoretical thought. Who cares? Just stay busy and you don't need to worry about it. And once we get further down the line in our journey, we start to really realize it's no longer just a theoretical thought. It's a reality that I have to confront. I don't want to. Absolutely not. But I have to. And I think this is where spirituality, faith, higher power, God comes really in. So we start to ask questions we never asked before at this stage in our journey. Be kind of immune, almost allergic to watered down sheep. Answers platitudes if you want more. We want something that really reflects the width of our experiences that are not linear, but that there are. There's a multitude, but we've wrestled with these things and it ain't easy. And I think asking the questions and you're right, there are difficult questions and there are questions we can't control. You know, you brought up the word control. And, you know, human beings we like to control. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, we really do like to control. And there are certain things in our life that we can't control. And and we're not good at that. We're not good at relinquishing control. Whether it's relinquishing control to God. Right. It's God's will. Um, if it's relinquishing control to others, if it's relinquishing control to doctors. Um, and so when we think about faith, faith in and of itself, by definition, is believing in something you can't see, right? It's believing in something you can't control. Um, it is allowing yourself to be open. To God's love. It's allowing yourself to be open to possibilities. It is allowing yourself to believe, even if you're even if your head is telling you should I believe this? It is opening your heart to believe that God loves you, that that this journey doesn't end, um. And that your future is still very bright. But you have to relinquish a little control in order in order to be able to see and feel and live that. You know, certain things are so strong. It's not even whether you relinquish control. They just take control from us illness, whether we relinquish or not. It just takes it from us. Mortality, whether we like to relinquish control or not. And no one of us wants to. It just takes it. So on the negative side, there are certain things that don't ask, are you going to relinquish control? Yay or nay? It just takes it from us. Deal with it. So. But then also on the more positive end. The certain things that are so powerful, they can take control from us and it scares us. Love is stronger than what we can control. You know this. When you fell in love the first time and you. You couldn't think straight. You couldn't sleep. Your heart was racing at 300 miles an hour. I mean, you were at work. You were anywhere else. And you could only think about that person. Love. And then, as obviously, from this initial state of infatuation to, you know, to the other stages and levels of love, it grows. It may not be having quite the intensity of that second, but it still grows deeper and deeper and you realize it's it's you can't control it. That's the scary part about love. And the question is, do I allow myself to be loved? Understanding that in this process I, I hand over control to someone else. Love is so powerful, even though I can't control it. It can can destroy the fear of. Of that illness, of that mortality, of anything else. There is something in in that love that is stronger. And in my faith tradition that I embrace. And I love that message. The message is not so much that God has a lot of love, but God is love. God always loves. God never stops loving. If God could stop loving, then God would no longer be God. So even if I immersed in fear and doubt and wrestling with that illness and wrestling with that pain and wrestling with that, what? I don't want to die. Even in those moments, God's love continues to hold on to me and not let me go. And just knowing that. Gives me the strength to to be okay with it. It's perfect love. It's perfect love. And sometimes that's. That also is a little scary boy. Um. Really is scary. It's a little scary. Um, you know, human love is not perfect, right? It never is. Love your children. You love your spouse. You love. Many times in your life. Your parents. Um. And that's good love, but imperfect. And it's. And that's scary, too, because it makes you vulnerable. And and there's still a part of you that wants to have some control over it, even though it's, it's it's still, uh, uncontrolled. But God's love is perfect. And again, regardless of your faith tradition, regardless of of how you perceive God in your life, uh, God's love is perfect. And that's something that again, uh, faith system after faith system after faith system reinforces that, right? If you're Jewish, if you're a Christian, if you're Muslim, still, it's still, uh, permeates every single faith tradition that we have. God loves you. Um, and as you get older, once you can accept. You said this earlier, and I really loved it. Control and love are polar opposites. They are. And and that's something that that we have to kind of process, right? Control and love are polar opposites. And when you reach this age, being able to accept based on your life experiences. Right. Which were hopefully good. Some bad, maybe even a little ugly. That regardless of all of that control and love. Are polar opposites. But God's love is eternal, right? It's always there. Even if even if you've walked away from it, it's still always there. And I said, I think that's embedded into every single faith tradition that there is on Earth. Yeah. You know, in, in our, in my faith tradition, you know, the idea is that love does not control. If something if I control someone, something, love evaporates, disappears. And you know, the notion that the higher power that God is love means. If that is true. God cannot control us. That means we have the opportunity to walk away from. It doesn't mean that God stops loving. God never stops loving. No matter how far we move away, God never stops loving you. God never stops loving me. And even if we doubt everything and everyone, God, ourselves and everything. God never stops loving. But our faith tradition tells us that God created me and humankind with the ability to walk away because God is love. And if God creates life, that life must have the opportunity to say no. And and we all do say no. And but God's unconditional, total love doesn't stop. There is always that invitation back to that perfect, unconditional love that is stronger than these universal experiences that are so scary about illness, mortality, and everything that's associated with that. Yeah, we like to think we're not walking through this journey alone. And and I think there are two times in your life that you really consciously tap into faith. The first is when you have children. Yes. Right. All of a sudden, when you have children and you look at these pure, this pure life that you biologically created, and even those that are unchurched, even those that may be struggling with faith, somehow they get their children baptized or named in the Jewish tradition. Or if it's a Jewish male, they they get them circumcised. There is still a part of you that taps into your faith because you want God to protect your child, and you want to make sure that your child grows up with traditions and a spiritual basis upon which, when they get older, they'll they'll figure out on their own. But that's probably the first time in your life unless you actually really grew up in a faith based family. I didn't I think you struggled with that, um, as well. Um, where you individually tap into your into faith? Right. Um. God has graced me with this child. I want to make sure that, um, this child is, um, within God's love. You know, we know that always. But I think the second time, and that's really what we're talking about today, is when you reach that point in your life where your next chapter. Is maybe not your last chapter, but maybe it is your last chapter, right? So from 60 to 90, I don't know, 60 to 100. I don't know if I want to live to be 100, but that's a different story. But there is that point in your life where you're closer to the end than the beginning, and now you've had all these experiences where you start to wonder, if nothing else, you start to wonder about faith. You know, we it's no longer just a theory down the line. Who cares? It's real. And we can't ignore it for a little while longer. But we'll be dealing with it more and more, and we don't need to be afraid of it. So intimidating. Scary to deal with these issues pertaining to mortality, illness, pain, you know, aloneness. You know, whatever there is, it's, oh, my God, this is so scary. If I, I better not think about it. I better not talk about it. I better keep myself busy to distract my mind. That's fine. But at some point that's not going to be enough. But you don't have to be afraid of dealing with it, because the reality is there's a power of love. Will always be stronger than the fear that comes from these issues. We cannot cancel these issues. They are there. They're part of life, whether we like it or not. But we can put next to it a reality, a power that is so much stronger that it flushes out the fear that comes from these issues. Um, you know, it's a and that power of love is so much stronger than the power of the fear that comes from these things. So my invitation is, instead of being afraid of these things, to embrace that unconditional love that brings healing to every part of our lives. So here's a question. So again, we are the sum of our experiences. And we've all done good things. And maybe some not so good things and maybe things were ashamed of. And maybe when you reach this point in your life, you're afraid that you're unlovable or that, um, that you know something you've done in your past and we all have those, right, has sort of rendered us, um, you know, as an outsider, right? You know, we didn't go to church, we didn't go to temple, we didn't pray. We, you know, we weren't as steadfast in our faith as, you know, we believe we should have been. And we have all this guilt about, you know, the good things, the bad things, the whatever. And so now you approach this stage where you're now questioning. Um, what this is going to be like. And by the way, it's it's illness and it's mortality, but it's also joy and enjoyment and, you know, doing good things and all of that. But suddenly, you know, we're having a faith crisis because we feel like we don't deserve, um, love. Oh, I can't, I can't, you know, I can't start talking to God or I can't start praying or because God turned away from me a long time ago. It's one of the. Greatest lies there is the lie. I'm unlovable, you know. And there is some. Usually that lie sneaks in in an underhanded way. Well, if anyone, including God, would really know these things that you are so successful at hiding from everyone, even yourself. If anyone would find out about this, that person would turn away and in disgust. So if somebody really loves you, it's only a sign that person doesn't know the real you, which is the you that you are hiding. The message of God's love is he knows it real you, even the part that you are hiding and says, my love is complete and total for you, including that part that you are so good at hiding from everyone, even from yourself. Even the part you're ashamed of, even the part that you're ashamed of. And we all have that. And I think everyone has a stage in your life. Tapping into your faith, whatever that is your spirituality. Realizing you're not on this journey alone and that that you're being accompanied by this pure love. And again, you go into every single faith tradition. And that is the strongest message possible. You are loved. You are not alone. Don't be afraid. And and again, I think it's a very individual relationship. I think it's something that people need to think about in process. Um, particularly those that haven't thought about it and processed it in a long time. Uh, you know, if you're a church, if you haven't been to church and you're a Christian, if you haven't been to temple, you haven't, uh, you know, connected in any way, shape or form with your spirituality. I would suggest now is the time to think about it. Because what's the alternative? Yeah, I mean, there's there's the other reality. You know, I just had a birthday that ended in a zero. Um, and, and, you know, sometimes when I'm laying in bed at night and I'm thinking about, oh, how many more years is that? I don't know what the answer to that is. Right. Um, and, you know, I'm not an eloquent player. Is that the right word? Um, I tend to pray in my car, so God and I have a have a one of those car relationships, but, um, but it is comforting to me to know that as I walk through this, this journey. And I've always walked through this journey, but as I've walked through this journey, there have been times where I was ashamed and there were times that I was confused, and there were times that I was questioning. And God expects all of that. Um, but now more than ever, um, I need, I need. To know that God loves me because I don't know what this future holds, and hopefully it holds amazing things. But there's probably a few scary ones ahead as well. You know, layers. There's a part of me that's lovable, and there's a part of me that's unlovable. And the truth is, every part of you is lovable and has always been that way and will always be that way. Every part of you is lovable. So as you leave this episode, I hope you take away a couple of things. Um, again, uh, you know, while in Tracy and I, um, you know, have a similar faith tradition now. We don't come from that. Right? Our journeys have been very different and unique, and maybe yours was as well. Maybe you're not comfortable walking into a church or a temple or a mosque. That's okay. But if we encourage you any, any way, I would say there are really two things. And tell me if you agree with me, Andrea. First, accept the fact that you are lovable, right? Yes. Accept the fact. And process that fact that there is nothing in your life that could separate you from God's love. And once you're comfortable and confident with that, I think the rest is easier. Right. But it takes a bit to feel comfortable and confident about that. So it does require a little bit of thinking. It does. And it does require, no pun, a leap of faith. Yes it does. Yes it does. Just accept it. It's it's a reality. Right. Um, the second is to realize that you don't walk this journey alone. And, and, and I think of all the comforts that my faith gives me, knowing that I am loved and knowing I don't travel this journey alone, regardless of how many human people are in my life. I'm not alone. Right. And that there's always somebody willing to listen to me, um, even when I'm not making sense and even even when maybe what my head is thinking is not what I would say out loud. Um, I think that's important. Um, and and also assess the some of your life experiences. I think this is a good time to look backwards, to look present and to look forward and to think about faith as, as something that is a part of you and unique and what one person says or how one person feels. That's theirs, right? That's not yours. Yes. You know, I love the way you summarized it. You know, you were lovable. And. The more we advance in our journey, the more we wonder. The more important it is to to recognize the truth of that. You're lovable with all your experiences, all the good, bad and ugly sides. But however you label those things, you are lovable. I went, I'll end it with this. Years and years and years ago when I was first battling with my own spiritual journey. Because, you know, moving from Jewish to Christian is more than crossing a line. Um, and again, someday in a different episode, we could talk more about, uh, about heritage and all of that, because I am still I still carry a lot of that. But I went to a retreat and it was a college retreat. So it was a bunch of young people, right? And they gave us buttons that said, I am lovable. Yeah. Now, when you're in your 20s, you might think you're lovable, or you're at that funny age of your life where you're not sure, but what the message was is, look at that, and maybe you need to write it down on a piece of paper and hang it on your refrigerator on the days you're feeling the least lovable. Look at that note, right? Just look at that note. It didn't even say God loves you. It just says I am lovable. And those are the days, right? That you need to take that leap of faith and realize I am lovable. And so, again, as we leave you today, know that we love you. Yes we do. Um. God loves you. Yes he does. And part of that is you need to love yourself. Yes you do. Anyhow, uh, thank you for listening today. Uh, as always, we have a interesting time having these conversations. Uh, and we'll see you again next time. So, joyous journeys over 60. I'm Jane rae, Andrea stein. I'm wishing you a blessed day.