Hello everyone and Welcome to another

episode of Selling Greenville your

favorite real estate podcast here in

Greenville, South Carolina, I'm your host

as always Stan Mccune realtor right here in

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today I'm really excited I have a guest

it's been way way way too long since

I've had a guest on the show but we have

one today it is the OWN of Carolina

appraisal Partners Chris White a great

appraiser in the Greenville area we are

building bridges in this show right

Realtors and appraisers are supposed to

hate each other but no we are

building bridges in the show so Chris

White welcome to the show you want to

say anything to introduce yourself now

youve got the floor yeah thanks man

I'm excited to be here as well Stan and

I have known each other for a little bit

we cross paths on a couple classes

we've taken the together and we have

a innan interest of weird data and like

analyzing that data in real estate

market so little nerdy here a little

nerdfest going on but it's cool I'm

an economics major so that goes in in

many years ago that is but it goes in in

line with what I do for a living right

now but I have owned my company and I

have been a residential real estate

appraiser in Greenville Spartanburg

market for over 20 years now I think

this is my 22nd year if I wow doing my

math correctly amazing yeah doesn't seem

real sometimes I've been through some

crazy stuff we've been through the 08

09 10 thing been through 2000

pandemic versus 2022 chaos now we're

here so I didn't I didn't plan to ask

this question but what was the craziest

period of time in your opinion as an

appraiser yeah so that's a great

question I think the the the beginning

of the ' 07 crash was really you can

kind of like like I said I'm an

economics major and I'm looking at this

data of days on Market I'm looking at

this data of houses on the market and

you know back then they had what was

called you know the subprime loans going

on people were getting you know

loans at 103% so they're getting 3% back

to buy furniture or whatever and they

had like you know 550 credit scores and

you know all this stuff was going on so

so seeing all that compile and then you

know not having any equity in their

homes they they literally just you know

let them go back I saw one guy I did an

appraisal for a one guy who had two

houses he bought two houses in one year

they both got four clothes on within one

year wow within 12 calendar months of

each other unable it was nuts to see all

that you know and then seeing the

rebound of it too and how slow it was to

come out of that you know because it was

really 2009 beginning of 2010 if I

remember correctly that was you started

to see a little attraction a little

momentum you know those those are the

days I have a real estate license as

well I'm a broker as well I don't do

any of that because it's too hard of a

job but you know when when me and my

wife operated our our brokerage you

know we You' get a showing request over

for a house in 200 and you you go out

and Bak

cookies Spruce out the house get a back

going on whatever it took bring your

topshelf bourbon with you whatever yeah

well we couldn't afford it back

then realtor can always afford topshelf

bourbon we we we find a way to get

through the the slim markets did did

you did you ever deal with any of

those famous ninja loans no income no

job oh yeah I've I've got a couple

stories about those actually I knew one

guy that was Ren houses down in

Greenville and he was doing no doc cash

shot refi on them so he'd buy them

and you know pay $30,000 for him for a

list of stuff he was going to do to the

bank and then Cash Out 110 and then

never do any of the work on it yeah well

he doesn't I don't know where he is now

but I did probably six or seven of these

for the bank and by the way I'm like

this isn't a good idea guys no doc cash

out refi on that but he probably had a

portfolio of 10 to 12 of them where he

was 80 to 100 Grand upside down on on

each house unbelievable

AB well I'm not a big fan of the federal

government but there's some things that

they had to change that they did

change and and I you know seems

like they've cleaned up some things I

guess you could argue that the federal

government was why all that subprime

nonsense happened to begin with but we

won't get into all that you what what

happened also in conjunction with that

is there was a lot of fraud going on too

you know because when when I first

started doing this we used to knock on a

bank or a lender and say hey can I do

some of your can I do some of your

appraisal work you know just you know

any any guy hang a shingle out there

that we just go knock on it and then

this is what the conversation would be

well you can have this one if you can

get it coming at 250 and literally I

mean that's how business was done so I

mean yes there are some things that were

you know moved towards more normaly and

protecting the consumer you know

which is good but you know it's never

good to swing the pendulum all the way

to the other side as well and you you

had hbcc and you had the Dodd Frank deck

and all that stuff going on right after

that and they're just basically hey real

estate agents hey lenders don't ever

talk to the appraiser you know that's

what that's what was being conveyed to

the I had a girl that went to church

with me I saw her in church and she was

a lender and she go she turned her back

she goes I can't talk to you I'm like I

think we're all right if we talk to

church not about real estate I don't

think that we're going to get in

violation of the do prank yeah yeah that

some someone told me that when I first

started in real estate there was a a

time where I had a friend of mine

that I went to church with who wasn't

using me as her agent but she was

talking about real estate with me

because she knew that that's what I did

for a living and someone was like you

can't do that she already had she has

another agent I'm like I think she can

talk big picture real estate with anyone

she wants to like regardless of whether

she signed an exclusive right to buy or

whatever though anyway it's funny well

of course you follow it up by saying

yeah that other agent is trash so you

might as well use it that's right just

cancel that cancel that agreement you've

got with them just kidding so yeah

I'll actually one of the questions I

had on here I'm just going to jump right

in because I'm I'm curious with what you

just said so I had written down

what's one thing if you could change one

thing about our current appraisal system

what would it be and I feel like that

you kind of segwayed right into that

what I'm curious what your what comes to

mind there's a lot of them really you

know that I think the the biggest the

there's a couple big problems with the

process and and how that all goes out I

think there's a misconception that we

hold things up or that we're the ones

that are killing the deals and and then

and and realistically what our job is is

to value a property for we're talking

about mortgage lending now you know

we're talking about Bank work you know

our job is to make sure that the asset

that's being purchased by the purchaser

if they default on it that the lender

can get their money back on it they're

paying a fair price so you know one of

the things that has happened during

the whole mess is that you know now

we're given the onus of saying your

house is worth

$410,000 well in reality the way the

appraisals work is it's it's really not

that easy to do and it's really not that

easy to be that good at it you know you

know how you get a really if you got a

appraisal is if it's

$42,988 to 420 and there's a contract of

$400,000 on it then I'm putting $400,000

on it because it's within the range and

it's it's there but we're given the task

of you know telling you exactly what the

the lender is telling us what what

exactly does this house worth you know

but we it's there's too many nuances to

real estate you know like I always use

this example is what if you you have two

houses that are identical next to each

other and they're both list for sale one

of them smells like cat pee you know

that is something that you have to deal

with right I mean it is but how do you

adjust for that you know we can't make

random adjustments you have to make

adjustments B based on Market data and

one of the tools we rely on is the MLS

so how many times have you put in a

listing stand that said this house

smells like cat PE never I've never put

that very very hard to get discernable

information if you don't know the

nuances of it and that's how the market

kind of moves now I have told appraisers

before I've had appraisers call me and

ask me and I'll tell them on the phone

yeah it smelled like catp yeah yeah so I

mean but that's Vital Information for I

mean that's something you really need to

know or you know just there little

nuances of of real estate or floor plan

or something like that you know they

move around like that so you know that's

the the major the major thing I would

like to see happen on that side is let

us just do like hey the house is worth

380 to 420 you figure it out and if it's

under contract 410 loan the money that

the other thing the misconception on the

lending side is too is that I'm Almighty

dictator of all that's good with lending

but I'm not the lender if I come in at

405 and it's a 410 contract they can

still let that thing go through for

$410,000

I mean that's what the I mean that you

know how many times in the history of

mankind that's happened none because

they don't want the responsibility of

that I think the other thing too is

you know we're moving it towards more

valuation modules you know the automated

stuff for you know the zword those

type of situations that's not good for

the industry as well what's gonna happen

if you don't have boots on the ground or

if you have boots on the ground that

don't know what they're doing is you're

going to end up with a lot of

overvalued properties undervalued

properties putting putting your eyes

on things one of the most integral parts

of the appraisal process absolutely got

to have something many that knows the

differences and how those things are

connected to the buyers and how those

things are connected to the overall

market like you know how they add value

how the contributory value of those

things are perceived in the market and

and guess what that's fluid I mean you

can't like you know here's a good

example of that like pools during Co

you we had kids at house we couldn't go

out we couldn't go on vacation so people

were moving and they were moving from

big big cities they were moving from

Chicago they're moving from La they're

moving from Phoenix they're moving from

Dallas they're moving to Greenville well

during that time you I saw the

contributory value of pools go up

exponentially like L 30 $40,000 they

paying for pools not to install them of

houses versus that didn't have pools

well then guess what happened those

people we got out of covid those people

understood that pools are expensive

there's a dead frog in there they had to

clean it all the time there's chemicals

that got to go in you know all those

things happen so the contribut to value

of that pool moved the other way and now

it's back a little bit less than it was

during the co time so you that's kind of

how the market moves you have to be in

tune to it on a daily that's why you

know podcasts like this or looking at

data or looking at the MLS statistics

are vital to understanding how all this

moves in conjunction with the overall

economy and how it relates to us as

buyers and sellers or in the industry of

where we're going with this you know

yeah absolutely so you you covered a lot

of good misconceptions in there with

regard to appraisal specifically what is

the most common misconception that you

run into that that maybe Realtors have

or maybe buyers or sellers have when it

comes to appraisals yeah just the scope

of work that goes into the forming the

value of the opinion of value you know

in any given report I might have you

know a typical one four to six hours in

a or you know they see me at a property

for 15 20 minutes I'm like dude this

guy's making bank but they don't see the

back end of it they don't see how

pulling comps they don't see all the

data I have they don't see all that

stuff that goes in on a daily basis to

formulating all these things that go

into the valuation of that particular

property you know so so that's that's

one of the things you really have no

idea I always tell real estate agents

you know if you anytime you want to

follow me around for a week I guarantee

you're going to be really tired at the

end of the week and I guarantee you'll

have

no idea what I do I actually one my my

the girl that works with me now Jennifer

Jennifer Wills she is an agent as

well and she's now a certified

residential appraiser congratul

congratulations Jen awesome but

but she had no idea like she went

through this and it's been a course of

two and a half years of getting trained

and she just got now where she's you

know in second grade of two two and a

half years of going through what we have

to go through and by the way it's

getting any easier you know with all the

regulations and what Fanny May is doing

with the data and you know how we have

to make U you know make comments on

every little dumb thing under to the sun

again more government is never a good

idea in my opinion and and I'm guessing

that appraisers are probably you know

for for those listening or watching that

don't know there's a lot of debates

right now about multiple listing

services if they should even exist if

Realtors should be required to use etc

etc I'm guessing you as an appraiser are

pretty much in favor of the of the MLS

and of as much data being in there as

possible yes but I don't care if it's

MLS or rillo or independent I I mean I

think idealistically like there's a

couple ideas out there being floated

right now about Statewide

mls's or or even you know some

Nationwide ones and it and it would be

if I had my way i'' be geared towards

appraisers you know we could have our

own independent but we're for every one

of us there's 300 or 400 agents so we

don't have the clout you know our

coalitions are not like Nar you we have

very little power in anything but you

know idealistically it'd be nice to have

an appraiser only you know Mesa that or

whatever data source that we can really

pull out good information but again

you're only as good as the data so who's

putting us who's putting the data in

there right you're creating a whole

another you know whole other set of

problems set of problems as far as that

is concern concerned but yeah know MLS

is the is the most prevalent and the

most key part of doing our job and you

also have to take that as an appraiser

to know that it's a a marketing tool so

you know like for instance we all know

in the industry what handyman special

means means it's a turd you know it

means it needs a lot of work or you know

what's the other what's another one

you know cute or wellmaintained

yeah well maintain cozy cozy means it's

tiny cozy means

it's so all those things better than new

yeah better yeah better than new yeah I

did I did a whole episode years ago I've

been doing this podcast for over five

years now I did an episode years ago

that was realtor code words I just did

it for fun so yeah I've got I've got

all those Che that one out I sure I know

them all oh you you for sure have seen

have been exposed to all of them so

what are to be like practical here

what are

things that parties or Realtors can

do in a transaction that can help

appraisers specifically I think one of

the I'm a relation besides being

specific in in the multiple listing

service in the listing yeah oh okay yeah

so so as far as that is concerned you

know there's in the Greenville MLS

Paragon they they use a section of

the of the input is member remarks

and that's not shown to other people

it's not shown to anyone else it's just

shown to people that have privy to

access the MLS and and and any kind

of information like the cat fee

situation would be great to know by

reading the listing if it was in there

and you know not necessarily marketed

towards the general public but at least

stuff that we would know square

footage reporting is another thing if

you're not currently measuring your

houses the Anie standards then you

probably should be because that's how

the standard so if you're just hiring a

marketing company to do a cubasa on it

and then an apprais it goes out you

might be a couple hundred square foot

off on the listing from what it

actually is size-wise and you know if

you're supposed to be 3,000 square feet

and it's 2,800 square feet obviously

that's a fair chunk of change as far as

an appraisal is concerned so you know Ju

Just you know and be candid about it on

the MLS you know what about what about

buyers and sellers can they do to to

help appraisers like okay it's

real estate strange in the fact that

everyone thinks they knows a little bit

about how real estate works as far as

you know buying and selling of real

estate you all heard you've heard many

times I can sell my own house they stick

a sign in a yard but you don't see the

intricacies that happen in in the

marketing or the or the period of time

when it's under contract to where it

actually closes or the amount of work

that goes into in there and I think

that's true of appraising also it's like

I think most people think I have a bag

of numbers that I just like reach my

hand into to just throw in there and let

it stick and fill out a form and turn it

in but I really do take pride in what

I do and I take pride in being correct

and I take pride in you know being

fair in in the eyes of a buyer and a

seller you know so a lot of the

misconceptions from buyers and sellers

is that some things don't really matter

in real estate of

for instance I I appreciate the fact

that you got really nice curtains and

then you have plantation shutters and

that you have got a nice dog shed out

back but those things aren't necessarily

going to move the needle for appraisals

now they might help in the marketing and

might have marketability of the house

but it's not anything I can adjust for I

cannot adjust for anything I don't have

Market data on you know so like if you

have something that like you have a

30 foot patio versus a 10-ft patio yeah

it's better to have a 30-foot patio but

how much better well unless I have data

to know that and unless the MLS says

that unless I know about it it's

impossible to make any kind of

you know any kind of adjustment on that

and really how we deal with that stuff

is moving it around in a in a macro

environment so for instance if I've got

this the case where it's 380 to 420 you

know my range of and I've got a really

big patio maybe I'll be above the mean

you know because I have a few things

there but for for buyers and sellers the

number one thing I would do is leave us

alone I like talking to people and I'm

very social you know that but when I'm

doing my job I just want to be left

alone and and leave out leave leave

anything that's pertinent I used to ask

by like if I was doing refi I would ask

I'd ask the the owner i' be like what

do you love about your house and what do

you what do you hope what do you wish

you could change about your house and a

lot of times it was not you know

anything that would move to needle but

sometimes it was and those are things

that make me kind of consider so and the

other thing is I don't care if your

bed's made I don't care if the dishes

are out you know you're not showing a

house to an appraiser so when I go into

a house I'm gonna do my job I'm not

going to take pictures of your dishes

I'm not going to do any of that stuff

just let us do our thing don't wait a

week to get your mess cleaned up or put

a shrub in or something like that just

let the process be the process and

and and Ed educate yourself a little bit

there's a lot of different you know

nuances to to the process and there's

a lot of good resources for buyers and

sellers out there to say hey what what

should I expect an appraisal you know

just Google it and you know that's

that's a good idea to get there yeah

absolutely let's talk about you

and and your relationship with other

appraisers I'm just

curious and or maybe the the appraiser

consensus do you do you disagree with

the consensus or with even local

appraisers generally on anything is

there something that's like yeah this is

what the consensus says but it's not

really what I agree with is is there

anything like that or has the government

kind of eliminated that kind of

potential yeah there's there's not a lot

there that we if you're doing Bank work

obviously there's the the major players

in that are Fanny May and Freddy Mack so

anything that's going to get sold to F

Fanny May or there's there's a about

this thick of guidelines that you have

to adhere to then the other side of

it is FHA or rural housing loans or VA

and those are a little different because

you know V VA is a little different

than FHA and rural housing but those

those are insurers and they have a

different set of guidelines in addition

to the guidelines for Fanny May and

Freddy Mack so there's not a I mean

there's there's always whenever you get

a bunch of people who think they're

right all the time together there's

always discrepancies in how to tackle

certain problems but you know local it's

like anything else there's a set of

people that are good at their job and

they've been doing it a long time they

know what they're doing and then there's

a set of people that aren't necessarily

that good that's true of every

profession you just have to go out there

and figure out who you like to deal B do

business with and when you're accepting

offers on the selling side know that the

the lender matters and the fact that the

lender matters because the people I work

with are not you know not big type

places that just pick cheap AB braisers

I always use this reference you know if

you have a brain tumor are you going

through Google and saying cheapest brain

surgeon you know no that's kind of where

I am in my life and I understand for

some people it's important but when it's

a big decision like buying a house you

want to get good people on your side

professionals that knows what they're

doing that know how to handle these

problems and you want same thing on the

lending SI they're going to the the good

lenders are going to use good appraisers

period and they're going to pay us well

that's that's how it is I don't

work that's the truth I can and choose

because I've been doing this 20 years

but getting into the business wasn't

like that you took a lot of junk I had I

had I had a local lender one time that

we got a really bad appraisal and

they they kick that appraiser out

however they can do it they kick that

appraiser out of their pool for the for

the future so I was impressed by that it

it probably wasn't an isolated event

yeah my experience it's not like they

don't kick people out for not hitting

value they kick people out for several

different reasons or whatever but but

the the point to this conversation right

now is that they they have the ability

to put four or five guys on they know

and trust to do good work this same

thing you know you have a stack of

people that you deal with for roofing if

you need a roofer you have a stack of

people Insurance you know or whatever it

is you have people that you know and

trust we're have people that you know

and trust in in the business that you

can rely on and and you know there's

there's a lot of good appraisers in the

upstate of of of South Carolina there's

absolutely there's also a few bad

ones too and like I said I I owned a

brokerage I've literally been on that

side of it where I said this is absolute

junk and it's it makes you sad

because they're taking business away

from you as an appraiser because they're

turning in this this junk work but

that's life you know hopefully they

won't be long around too long well but

it

my personal opinion is is probably

way worse on the realtor side of things

in terms of in terms of junk work

cuz I see that all the time and from

other other realtors that I'm having

to deal with that's your but in your

opinion the barrier to entry isn't quite

as high as it is for

appraisers that is that's incredibly

true but that doesn't

mean in your business it's a little

different because once you get business

in my business you could pretty much do

your own thing you could do whatever you

want to without a lot of repercussions

you know what I mean in your business if

you're doing junk job you ain't going to

get any clients yeah so but you know the

thing

about learning and being good at your

craft is adapting and and you know

always always learn about something

always be if you can understand that in

the real estate business this isn't this

is a monster that is living and

breathing and it changes dayto day then

you can be successful the worst my worst

experiences with appraisers are the ones

that are like well this is why there's

this is how I've done it for 20 years

you're bad yeah yeah that's not a good

answer

ever and those are typically probably

the worst Realtors honestly that I deal

with too at the end of the day is

it's you know they don't they're they're

they're stuck in a model that you know

that worked you know maybe I mean it

real estate moves very quick what worked

five years ago does not work today in

in the world of selling real estate so

so yeah definitely overlap there now

I know that you're not like this per

se but a lot of people have the

impression that that appraisers are kind

of robotic and emotionless yeah so I'm

curious does the average appraiser or do

you feel anything when when you you do

the valuation and you're like yeah this

is way off from the contract price that

I have that's a really good question and

and like literally like I don't think

feel bad's a word or you know it's not

the right choice of words but like what

do you feel yeah the the last thing I do

is look at the contract so I go through

all the thing and then and then the last

thing I do is look at the contract

because I don't our job is be

unbiased and and that's sometimes hard

to do but for the for the most part I

try to work to see if I'm missing

something you know if it's a significant

amount I mean like I said in a $55,000

in a 50 or a $500,000 transaction is not

a lot of money you know if that's the it

is what it is you know there's some

cases I've seen appraisers appraisals

that came back that were $200 or $300

off and there's maybe reasons for that

but that's just not to me that's just

not doing a a good enough job for you

and again I'm not hunting a value but

I'm not good enough to tell you that I'm

$200 right in a $400,000 transaction you

know what I mean so I I I I'm I have

a hard time

myself being mad about anything if

I'm right you know if if I think I'm

right you know what I mean I don't but I

will I will say this I have done some

refinance transactions under the reverse

mortgage business that are sad

because these people are't in their

houses they're trying to borrow money to

fix their houses and because it's an FHA

product they can't have they can't get

it because the house isn't worthy of

quote unquote safe sound inse secure but

they have $100,000 Equity they can't tap

into because they need to get a reverse

reverse mortgage on or even just regular

refinances that cash out refinances so

those those sometimes are a little hard

to stom it because the it no matter what

the best solution for that particular

person as a human being would be to get

money out of their house where they have

equity in it to fix it up now I'm not

talking about redoing the bathroom I'm

talking about having a bathroom that

works right yeah yeah yeah know what I'm

saying but you know I try not to you

know I try not to be a guy that's I'm

definitely not joyous when it contracts

I don't go I killed another

deal but you know your your

observation about the robotic and the is

probably overall I would say accurate

from a wide range of them I happen to

be split personality because when I am

doing that side of it I am very much

like that but I also have a gregarious

side that is pretty social which a lot

of a lot of appraisers don't have I mean

I've met I'm like dude you're just a wet

fish whatever a wet blanket or I mean

just all boring but that doesn't mean

they're bad at their job or anything

like and I've made a career on being

me like the relationships I have are are

based on interviews like this you know

where we can get together and we can

have a drink and like that's how

business is done in my opinion I have

a whole career I based a whole career on

on that one thing you know I do lunch

and learns all the time I do various

classes all the time that was actually

how we met yeah is it yeah yeah it was a

holiday Ingram lunch and learn okay cool

yeah Shameless plug there my wife

works there they're awesome they are

awesome they're my go-to for closing

attorneys are they yeah they're maybe

we can get them give you a bone here and

there I need to I need to get get them

to be a sponsor that that was a freebie

next time they got a p exactly but

you know those those are how that's how

I was trained to be is like look at it

from the other side and I think myself

being a broker and being on that end of

it does give you perspective on how the

whole thing works together and and

having a buyer that's disappointed

because it didn't appraise or having a

seller disappointed because it doesn't

appraise because those are real people

and you you you do have to take that out

of it when you're when you're doing your

job you know like I said I I work to get

it done but if it doesn't work if you

get one of my in and it's below contract

you are you know it's below contract you

know there's no data out there that I

could use to support the value of that

well that that was going to be my next

question actually let's say that to give

your example that you gave before

where subject property you come up with

a valuation of somewhere between 380 and

420 contract prices

425 are you going to go with the higher

end of that range or there other are you

gonna do

420 or is are there other factors

that play there yeah there's other

factors if it's like if it's of the

of my data set is it the best or close

to being the best overall does it have

features that are better than the rest

of them then I'll be towards the top end

if it's at 425 and my high end's 420 but

it's not and it's the catp house and

it's probably 375 380 sure but there are

there are other factors you know so

like I said I'll work for it but

sometimes I mean just life happens it's

not there that's just that is what it is

absolutely and in understanding the

difference between what you do and what

I do too is integral to that because

what you're trying to do is sell the

house for the most money you know that

that's in essence that's your job is to

get it that's what you are supposed to

do that's why you're an expert my job is

to figure out what most probable selling

price for that house is that's a

completely different thing you know

that's that's what what most people

would pay not just one guy been in a

situation before where you've advised a

client you're like okay this you're

paying too much for this house it's over

they don't care because it's next to

their daughter or it's you know their

Pastor lives on the street or you know

they love the pool whatever that thing

is that doesn't mean that most people

would buy that house for that much money

so that's in your goal and by the way

while we're on the topic of that every

in my experience every single seller

thinks their house is better than any

comp that H that sold in the end over

the last year and every buyer thinks

that their house that they're looking at

is the worst house in the in in I did an

episode on this recently too just a few

weeks ago yeah it's it's crazy that

every listing appointment you know you

present comps to a to a seller and

they're like oh no the living room's

small oh you know the pool is is cloudy

you know and it's just like okay there

it's not going to be exactly one to one

to your home but we need to be realis

so and by the way in most track type

situations you know the living rooms if

they're 18 by 20 or 16 by 15 that's not

something we're adjusting for it's it's

I mean it get it gets absorbed in the

overall square footage and everything

else so you can tell your sellers that

that doesn't

matter do you get that sometimes that

people think that like a room size is m

is material yeah I mean one of the

big debates that one of the probably the

biggest question I get from real estate

agents are hey can I call this a bedroom

and then they'll give me some random

room or whatever you know what what do

you what can you call a bedroom you know

and understand again that you guys are

marketing houses so if it's a

three-bedroom versus four bedroom it's a

big deal I me you're getting more eyes

on it but there there there aren't any

set rules so to speak about bedrooms

it's kind of like I'll know it when I

see it other than the standards that

ansy set out which are this is something

you don't know you might not know but

they're has to be a minimum square

footage of 70 square feet it has to have

a minimum width of seven feet it has to

have egress from two means which is a

door and a window it has to have an

actual door on it but it doesn't have to

have a closet I don't know if you knew

that or not so we talked about it before

so I did know that okay cool so so that

that you know but that doesn't mean it

is a bedroom because if it's in the

middle of the house and it was not meant

to be a bedroom and it you have to go

through a kitchen and a bathroom to get

there it's probably not a bedroom it's

just another room or whatever so that's

one of the questions I get more than

anything probably on on on agents can I

call this a bedroom ask your broker but

those are the guidelines if you you can

do it because i' the most heated debates

I've gotten into are agents dueling that

one has a buyer it says it's a

three-bedroom house and the fourth

bedroom don't count and then the seller

the selling agent's like no it's a

bedroom it's got this this and this so

there you go yeah I had someone one time

another agent get angry at me cuz I

called something a bedroom that they

didn't think was a bedroom but it was an

older house and the floor plan was a

little bit funky but it was a bedroom

yeah and anyway you you go some Mill

houses they didn't have any closets it

was four rooms and you tell me that's a

no bedroom

house no those are bedrooms people sleep

yep get yourself an armoire and put your

clothes in there yeah exactly let's

pivot real quick here and I want to

be respectful of your time so I don't

want this to go on too much longer here

but what do you think about the the

state of the market in the greater

Greenville area just from your

perspective what what's the market like

this is another perception thing so I I

think that our a recency bias is that

the market is telling us that the

Market's not good right now because

we had a time in 2022 that was

unprecedented it was literally people

coming here and droves having tons of

showings having five cash offers and 22

C other offers and we and interest rates

in the twos and threes and we took that

as being normal and that's where

we're thinking things should be but

historically over the last 20 or 30

years average day days on Market in

in Greenville was somewhere between 90

and 120 days and interest rates were

somewhere between 6 and a half and 7%

That's where we are right now the the

thing that's kind of weird about what we

got going now is the active sales are

resales not new construction are

struggling a little bit and the reason

is because we built a lot of houses

around here and they're currently built

and they're being built and the builders

are now offering incentives to get rid

of some of these so they're offering

rate buy Downs they're offering a lot of

closing costs and taking a little bit of

fin Financial hit and most buyers when

they go to buy a house will say well

what's my monthly payment if you're

getting a mortgage on it so I can get

into a brand new house for two $200 less

than this other house that's a that's a

comp yep you have to kind of register

that in your mind when you're going on a

listing appointment and saying yeah

these are new construction comps that

are the same dollar amount but they are

better deals out there what are buyer

where are buyers going to gravitate

towards that so the last statistic I saw

and if you know something different let

me know but 40% of the active listings

in Greenville mLs are new

construction that I haven't run that

recently but that sounds about right

that's CRA that's a lot yeah so so what

we're seeing in the market is resales

taking a little bit longer with that

being said the days on Market are like

60 I think it was like 58 or 52 or

something I can't remember exactly what

it was for the last month and and it's

trending the same way and prices are by

the way the prices the medium

prices are up not a lot but they're up

over last year so is the market bad I

don't think so at all there's another

another statistic I saw this week in

another class I was attending that homes

that are priced properly are selling in

an average of like 14 days and at 100%

of price homes that are overpriced are

taking up to 90 days and they're selling

for 92%

so it's in goal to have somebody that

knows what they're doing as their agent

yeah or real estate appraiser to get an

accurate honest opinion about what that

house is actually worth in the mark

market today in order to do that so I

think some of those stats are skewed

based on based on where we are but

overall my opinion is this is we're fine

this is normal we're moving towards

normal guess what Stan equilibrium is

good like a buyer's Market's not

necessarily good all the time a seller's

Market's not necessar good all the time

when you FL ues and you're moving

towards something I mean how it should

work is like this right it shouldn't be

like this no definitely not that's bad

for everybody yeah you know so so just

because we're one side and and honestly

it's been a rough it's been a rough few

years for buyers wouldn't you agree oh

yeah I mean and and it's still to be

honest it still is it's still not

because rates suck yeah I mean compared

to what they were three years ago but if

you can get people to understand rates

really don't suck they're about Norm

I bought my first house at 8 and a half%

FHA alone 8 and a half% I was happy to

get it you know but when they go down

then you get better house you know you

can move around and that's you know

that's craziness but that's not anything

that happens fast is going to Happ is

going to burn out you know what I mean

and that's not a good place to be in as

a either as an economy or or as a real

estate market and and the other the one

other thing I'd like to say about I

think we've done some good stuff in the

upstate to prevent from going back to

where we were and o oh I read a lot

of stuff online a lot of people in there

like oh there's a real estate crash

coming I don't think so because there

everyone that I know that hasn't bought

a house in the last year and a half is

got a ton of equity in their house not

only that they got interest rate around

three or four percent so they're going

to do whatever they have to to stay in

that house it's not gonna have a mass

foreclosures so the second thing

is the there's an un I I would say a

unstableness right now with what's going

on because we just changed

administrations and yep Trump is just

going in there and he's just cleaning a

house y I don't know how that's I'm not

making this political at all I am

devoutly

libertarian leave me alone let my let me

do my thing but there his policies

could can do one of two things it could

really set us up for an incredible run

over the next 10 years

or you could this could really be bad in

the in the short term it could be really

bad in the short term and I've even

heard some people say this is all being

done so that he can get rates back to 3%

so he's going to artificially stimulate

a recession to make sure that the rates

come to 3% against that's one Theory it

it again I I'm I'm I'm not proponent of

that or again I'm just saying no comment

exactly no comment but I mean it's not

without the realm of possibility right

for sure well well he has said that he

wants to get rates down he has multiple

times and multiple people around him

have said that but he also says he

wants Greenland to be

the that's right anyway we we we just

got political oh no yeah yeah no no no

yeah yeah stop it reverse reverse my

point is though there's a lot of

uncertainty I think in a lot of people

do said that you know but here's another

thing the the if I'm not not mistaken

the jobs rate or the inflation rate came

out yesterday the day before and it's

down to 2.8 so it was 3.1 and they were

expecting to be 3.0 and now we're at 2.8

just like that so I mean I don't know I

don't trust a lot of those government

numbers though I don't know if you do or

not but I I think there's a fair amount

of like they always do corrections on

all the job like the job job market too

there's like oh yeah we' lost 300,000

and oh no they're there they're just

somewhere else we forgot what to do with

them they're just yeah they they usually

do get revised they they don't people

think that the revisions are political I

that's the part that I disagree with

yeah I agree with the numbers the

freshh numbers aren't always accurate

but I think the revisions usually are

and I do not think the revisions are

political there's a lot of data I won't

even get into that yeah no I'm with you

but why even do the fresh ones then yeah

they prob they probably shouldn't even

do it you know they're you know

I don't know if the like the Federal

Reserve or other organizations within

the government have like a model that

they can run those numbers through and

kind of you know I do this actually if

you have listened to my whenever I do

the market stats for

gjr there's always two numbers that

are always wrong the fresh numbers and

so I will discuss my little overlay of

like okay you know it's the inventory

number is this but I really think it's

going to get to this right so so I I

know that going in so I don't know maybe

the government does I might be giving

them way too much credit though I don't

know I'll probably get in to I don't

know like I don't know like the whole

thing with inflation too I mean and the

uncertainty there but there did you know

that there's other ways to combat

inflation than the rate I mean there's

other things you can do than just Jack

the rate up and down I mean I mean and

it would it kill us to be a little

proactive sometime until wait until it's

like it's like we go through thing and

he's like well we're humming along it's

2 point 2.5% interest rates and all the

that and then and then all of a sudden

he's like wait a minute why is

everything so expensive you know

couldn't we have done this a little bit

before but keeping rates down in the

housing market keeping interest rates in

the housing market down for so long was

was artificially a stimulated oh yeah it

was

awful I think that's where we're going

again I mean how many years were they

end the fours and fives I mean I

remember when we did a refinance at five

I thought I won the lottery and then we

did a 15E

we did a 15year cash out at

2.7% I'm like yeah by the way we're

never moving no I wouldn't think so yeah

I I was gonna ask you if you wanted to

if you needed to sell your house but I

won't ask you that now good I do have

a lake house for sell down at Greenwood

okay all right well if anyone needs a

lake Lake housee in Greenwood contact

Chris are you sorry did you say you're

still you're still act you're still

active as a broker right I have an

active license but I don't my wife's

also broker and she's it's listed with

her okay okay all right well there you

goant but like I I don't I haven't even

looked at the new contract so I got her

to do all that yep that's I have my

hands full running this thing here I I

can fully understand that couple more

questions here so with regard to the

market is there anything that you feel

like you can see from your Vantage Point

as an appraiser specifically that

perhaps Realtors or listeners of the

show wouldn't be able to to see from

their vantage point I I think we need to

take the rosecolor glasses off a little

bit and look at the real facts you know

what I mean because I think everyone's

wishing for something as far as selling

a house right now they're like well I

see all these comps a year ago a year

ago is not now so if you're pulling

comps right now pull recent and see see

what see what's going on recently over a

year ago because it's really a different

market right now and it's it's not

bad it's just how is it different your

opinion it's definitely slowing down

I mean it's it's definitely not it's

it's not where it was a year ago year

year goes probably when it's I don't

know I'd have I'd have to do and it's

pocketed too like some places in Spartanburg

are doing fairly well and some places

Spartanburg aren't doing well at all some

place places in Greenville Simpsonville

are doing really well and some aren't

I've seen houses that are on the market

and I'm just like why is this house

still in the market it's been 100 days

I've seen houses that go under contract

in two days I'm like why are people

buying it for that much money yeah so I

think that a little bit is fueled by the

patient people that had cash and they

don't necessarily need a mortgage right

now and they got fed up with the whole

frenzy so they said I'm gonna stay where

I'm at I got a pile of money I don't

need a mortgage so rates don't matter to

me and I'm be really picky moving

forward and that's kind of where a lot

of people are with it right now sure but

I I you know it's I think that if I had

to put one word on where we are right

now it just be uncertain I I it's it's

really uncertain it it and I don't have

a general rule of thumb to say oh no

this is how it's going to go because I

it really could go one of two ways I

think within the next two years we could

go gang bu Busters again if certain

things happen or we could move the other

way and kind of go back into more of a

buyer Market by the way a buyer Market

is like real close to a a bub Bubble

Burst I mean yep you know what I'm

saying it's like one of those things you

want a sellers Market but as long as

rates are sixes we'll be okay if we move

into the sevens and seven and a half and

eights we're going to be a little bit of

trouble I think but I don't see that

happening because we're going to give

them credit the FED sees this and

they're going to be proactive about

keeping us where we are while keeping

inflation at Bay 3% inflation PE people

say inflation 3% is not that bad if we

could keep it at 3% we're okay as long

as wages keep up inflation by itself is

is is irrelevant if you have a 5%

inflation rate and you're and wages are

going to getting increased by 7%

inflation doesn't matter to to most

people because you're buying power is

better yeah so that's that's one thing

you know all these all these pocket

by the way the Advent of Twitter and

Facebook has made everyone an expert in

politics real estate and economics

everyone everyone has their opinion and

vaccines I've learned I learned that one

the hard way yeah yeah exactly PhD yeah

yeah yeah well so yeah no I I I agree

with I agree with all that I with the

exception of I don't know the Federal

Reserve cares about mortgage rates

specifically right they don't seem to be

super concerned about the housing market

you hear their statements that they make

they always say the housing market is

fine so I'm not entirely sure what to

make of that I know they look at the

housing market but time will tell I

guess we'll find out soon enough yeah

fair enough all right one maybe two

more questions how will you have to

adjust the way you work if the market

shifts back to a a more intense sort of

sellers market like what we had or or

perhaps if you want to take it in the

other direction if it shifts to a buyer

Market if we have a major shift how will

that change your work as an appraiser

yeah I think in like in 2022 I probably

turned away more work than I accepted

just and you Cherry picked what you

wanted to work on do I want to do new

constructions that I've done seven in

the last three weeks in the same yeah I

want to do those because it's easy money

you know there's like four models I

already knew them you know where where

we are with it now sometimes you gotta

you know it seems like there's a lot of

weird stuff out there you know I'm

getting properties now there's like you

know two houses on one lot or you know

just just different things that aren't

typical that you you gotta kind of pick

up when you have to you you got to keep

the wheels gree so to speak but like I

said I haven't not been busy in 10

years so I don't I don't see myself

changing much of anything other than

having a you know maybe talk to a few

more lenders or something like that but

I mean most people that been doing this

a long time know who the good appraisers

are and they're already on most of the

good panels and you know I had a guy

reach out to me today goes hey when's

the last time you've done one of my

appraisers appraisals and I'm like it's

been a while because I'm getting you

back on there I'm getting a bunch of

nonsense in lately but when when we

start struggling a little bit

and those things matter then you know

like back in the day you trying to churn

and burn it so whoever could get to it

the fastest you know in 2022 sometimes

I'd say I get this in three weeks bank

and they'll be like whatever just do it

yes now it's like I want it back in

three days I'm like yeah right that's a

little bit of a struggle you know sure

but I I don't the cream always Rises

to the top and I think if you're an

agent you're gonna be just you be

creative you be on top of it and you'll

be fine you know the the the the good

people the good agents the professionals

will always be there you won't have to

work at Home Depot because you know I

love these people that say I'm a I'm a

you know whatever and a real estate

agent no you're not you're whatever

because you can't do this part-time I'm

an insurance agent and and a and a real

estate agent it's like no you're an

insurance agent that's what you're doing

exactly you can't you can't be good at

it's like me I picked you know what I

mean I chose I chose not to sell real

estate anymore so you know because you

can't do you can't do them both way well

you can't you you really can't it's just

not how it works so you know on the

other side of it buyer side I don't I

think you have to there's always ways

there's always opportunity for people

that have an expertise and I think if

you know if you Market yourself properly

it'd be hard to you'd have to go out and

dig a little bit for me you know i' have

to go chase some divorce work or probate

work or something like that but I mean

valuation is valuation regardless

there's plenty of appraisers around that

don't do any Bank work they don't do any

of that they just yeah they just do you

know divorces or probate work or

whatever so about and honestly the way

Fanny May is going I wouldn't mind

transitioning into that maybe one day

because of how many more

restrictions and overlays they're

putting on yeah if you've got an

opportunity on April 2nd in Holiday

Ingram is sponsoring a class that me and

a local lender his name is Brett Chapel

we're doing like kind of EX exactly this

we're doing like a panel regarding

the economy and some of the changes that

Fanny May has given us to so

what basically in a nutshell they're

telling us now we have to analyze each

sale that we use in a report and make an

adjustment for time per

month oh per month interesting okay yeah

so and and it was that has that been is

that something that they planned out a

while ago that they were going to do now

or is that that they are responding to

the market and they're like we need to

do this I think it was stemming from the

fact that this is my personal opinion I

have zero facts for this whatsoever okay

but I think because of all the issues

with the the bias and appraisals that

that a lot of those appraisals were

coming in low during a time that there

was an increase in the market I think it

was their reaction to we need to take a

better look at what the time Factor

plays and the actual adjust that were

being made for a comp that's six months

old sure that's where I think it's

coming from I don't know that to be 100%

sure and it makes sense and I agre I

100% agree with time adjustments but

there the market in the sales and the

data that you compile is too hard to

figure out what especially with cyclical

you know seasonal developments and

influx of sales and all that kind of

thing to see exactly how those

adjustments are made on a monthly basis

you know what I mean yeah for sure again

this goes back to my original point

point when I when I said hey it's 380 to

425 just let us roll with it you know

what I mean just get loan on it or

whatever I don't care but to try to

figure out what a $1,200 time adjustment

for something that happen 30 days ago is

that really relevant yeah the amount of

effort that goes into figuring it out is

it's another 45 minutes of analysis you

know just on every single appraisal

report just to figure out yeah you know

and and by the way the data ain't that

good I would imagine yeah I would

imagine it's not 12 sales what do I do

12 sales in the last six months what do

I do with that are you able to use stuff

like the like the gjr market stats or

anything like that you can use

whatever you want to as long as it's

quote unquote credible I mean we've got

some software that's really

pretty very very what's the word I'm

looking for

specific yes it's it's it's way better

than anything they

on that end of it even for adjustments

but and again this is all new stuff

too so we don't know how I've got one

software I use and it's absolute trash I

mean you put it in there like I one I

was doing today it said I should make a

$23,000 adjustment for a sale six months

ago no I don't no that's yeah that's

crazy yeah that's that's crazy imagine

if I turn a report in like that to an an

upward adjustment a positive adjustment

other way it was a minus adjustment a

negative okay interesting so well you

didn't appra $23,000 why because because

there's a time adjustment in there for

four you know six months you get a call

from the listing agent on that one I bet

so incredible well that's I I think

that this has been a great

conversation and Chris I really

appreciate you coming on the show once

again did was there anything you wanted

us to cover that we didn't or do you

have any any last thoughts you'd like to

share No I just if if your audience

is watching this is in the there are

people that are in the industry I just

want you to know that you are

that we get a chance to do this for a

living every single day is there's not a

lot of things you can do in your life

that gives you this kind of opportunity

financially this kind of opportunity

socially this kind of opportunity to

have a really great life and it's and

it's a beautiful living organism that we

should cherish and love so count

yourself lucky to do that if you don't

know if you're not in an industry you

understand that it's not as simple as

looking on a website to see what your

what your house is worth or anything

there's a lot of moving parts to the

real estate market and it's

constantly changing so don't 100% don't

whatever you learned last year is not

going to be true this year and and

and don't listen to other people I'll

tell you there's two people that are the

worst to deal with in my profession is

as far as our clients are concerned if

I'm doing work for them and I I have

many friends that are both of these but

I'm gonna call you out right now Bo

lawyers and

Engineers hard to deal with on appraisal

side not the easiest to deal with on the

sales side

either but I love you yes I'm glad

you're here absolutely well hey I

appreciate you having me on I I respect

your you're you're a smart guy and I

love the way you pour into the data like

I do you know I think you'd be a

great appraiser one day if you ever I've

thought about it and and then I I look

at how the I look at all so I looked at

it like way way back in the day and I

was like oh my gosh the am of it's hard

just to be able to get to the point

where you're able to just be independent

and all that it's like it's hard well

not only that you're training your like

if I get if you if I take you on and

then like you end up being good you're

just going to go do your own thing so

what do I get out of it for taking all

that time energy and effort to to do

that you know there's there's several

things that we've proposed over the

years to combat that but I think you

said something earlier too that was very

poignant you said the bury entry on what

I do versus you do night and day I think

it needs to be harder for real estate

agents and I think it needs to be easier

for real estate appraisers it's just

it's not going to change and

and I'm gonna tell you why because we

have a lot of legislators that are

realtors and not a lot of them that are

appraisers in our state legislature yeah

it's literally that simple y so they we

because we actually tried to so I'm on

as on as side I I'm I'm involved with

the with the realtor political action

committee I chair that committee I'm

involved with our State Legislative

committee as well we tried to pass much

stricter continuing ed and other

things this past year and it was shot

down by our by the House of

Representatives in the state of South

Carolina yeah like we we got to do 28

every

year yeah that's that's way more than us

way way way more every other year but

yeah exactly but again like you go into

like look at see all this gray hair I'm

one of the youngest dudes out there you

know what I'm saying that's a problem

too you know that is got to be a problem

100% because I told everybody that's

come through my door as an apprentice

I've always told him this I'm like

listen once you get licensed which is

hard to get licensed you don't know

anything yet you it's like when you get

your real estate license they're like

basically tell you how not to go to jail

and you Le how to do your job it takes a

long time to get good at your job years

the whole 10,000 hour thing you know so

10,000 hours of actual practice

application that's that's years of

experience and you have to be proactive

on it you know from both sides whether

you're an agent a appraiser lender

whoever you can't get good at anything

until you do it a lot of times

you% so it's hard by the way I'm not

doing any more apprentices I'm done too

I didn't even realize they still

required apprenticeships so minimum

of one year okay okay it used to be two

right it used to be two correct yeah and

they kind of relaxed a little bit of

some of the other stuff too used to be

two it is one now you do have to have a

two-year degree to get certified or

fouryear degree to get certified twoyear

degree to to get your license I think

I'd have to look at the llr yeah but

like all you need is a GED to be an

agent well if anyone yeah that's right

if if anyone wants to or explore becom

an appraiser I'm sure Chris that you

would be willing to talk to them

don't call me call somebody else not to

be an appr not to be as an apprentice

just to kick the idea

around the hard the hard part of the

hard part of it is it's basically a year

of no income and then it takes you three

years to get good after that so unless

you're right out of college or something

it's it's a hard like if you're say 30

something and you want to transition

into it you better have another stream

of Revenue yeah for for a period of

years and that's that's hard when I did

this it was two years and I ran a

restaurant at night so I would go with

my trainer from 9:00 in the morning till

2: then I would work my job from 2: to

10: I did that for two over two years

it's hard no doubt I'm glad I did it

though yeah now now you're glad yeah

sucked de well Chris thank you so much

are you okay if I put your contact

info in the show notes 100% yeah all

right I'll put Chris White's contact

info in the show notes I think

maybe you were going to say this before

but for all you Realtors and perhaps

non- Realtors interested Chris does home

measurements as well because if you're

using that cubicasa app it only measures

the interior walls you will be losing

square footage if you do that are you in

agreement with that Chris yeah I

actually did a study on it and it's

actually pretty close on smaller like

rectangular houses it does a really good

it's it's an excellent floor plan tool I

don't want to say it's trash it's not

sure it's not it's it's an excellent

floor plan tool but if you're looking

for ansy square footage the bigger the

houses and the more cutouts and the

bigger the it's just hard open to below

areas it's i' a couple of my were almost

300 sare foot off wow yeah that's that's

a lot that that that is a lot and again

those are unique houses you know if

you're doing a 30 by 50 Ranch it's

pretty good sure well that that makes a

whole lot of sense so Chris can help you

if you need a pre-listing appraisal if

you need measurements any of those good

things he can you have a probate client

that needs a retrospective or something

divorce anything you come across we love

doing that non lender work too awesome

his information will be in the show not

so will mind if you need a realtor

please like rate review subscribe all

those good things with regard to the

show and we will talk again next time