INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where we
INTRO: share learning and expertise in child protection
INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation.
INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and
INTRO: share good practice on how we can all work together
INTRO: to keep babies, children and young people safe.
HOST: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast.
HOST: This episode is the second half of our discussion
HOST: with Annie Hudson and Jenny Coles from the Child
HOST: Safeguarding Practice Review Panel.
HOST: In the first part, we spoke about the findings from
HOST: the Panel's national review into child sexual abuse
HOST: within the family environment and their annual report
HOST: for 2023-24.
HOST: Do listen to that episode first if you haven't done
HOST: so already.
HOST: In this half, we'll look at how the Panel translates
HOST: the learning from their reports into improvements
HOST: for safeguarding practice.
HOST: So we've been talking about multi-agency working and
HOST: the challenges around information sharing, which as
HOST: you said, comes up all the time through all of these
HOST: reviews. Are there one or two things that
HOST: you think could make the biggest difference to
HOST: improving multi-agency collaboration and
HOST: communication?
ANNIE HUDSON: I think there's probably a number of things.
ANNIE HUDSON: I mean, you know, there is tension
ANNIE HUDSON: — which I know has been given — around some
ANNIE HUDSON: of the technical, kind of technological
ANNIE HUDSON: solutions. But, I mean, I think we have to be
ANNIE HUDSON: very mindful that they are not going to be a
ANNIE HUDSON: panacea. And it is much more about the kind
ANNIE HUDSON: of culture of working together that's so
ANNIE HUDSON: important. Within that, for
ANNIE HUDSON: me, it is about leadership; so leadership at
ANNIE HUDSON: a local level between the safeguarding
ANNIE HUDSON: partners.
ANNIE HUDSON: It is about giving coherent collective
ANNIE HUDSON: leadership across safeguarding local
ANNIE HUDSON: systems. But I think it's also about national
ANNIE HUDSON: leadership. And we've come to do this in
ANNIE HUDSON: a number of our reports, including the one
ANNIE HUDSON: about Arthur Labinjo-Hughes and Star Hobson,
ANNIE HUDSON: that it's really crucial that safeguarding
ANNIE HUDSON: is seen as a cross-government responsibility
ANNIE HUDSON: and duty, and that they shouldn't reinforce
ANNIE HUDSON: any of the kind of silos. So, although the
ANNIE HUDSON: Department for Education has the lead in
ANNIE HUDSON: terms of children's safeguarding and, you
ANNIE HUDSON: know making sure that working together
ANNIE HUDSON: guidance and so on is regularly updated, it
ANNIE HUDSON: involves many other departments: Department
ANNIE HUDSON: of Health and Social Care, Home Office,
ANNIE HUDSON: Ministry of Justice, Department of Housing
ANNIE HUDSON: and Local Government, and so on.
ANNIE HUDSON: So we think that cross-government cohesion is
ANNIE HUDSON: really important in promoting that coherent
ANNIE HUDSON: approach to sharing information and sharing
ANNIE HUDSON: approaches.
ANNIE HUDSON: I think that's really important.
ANNIE HUDSON: But I suppose it's also about
ANNIE HUDSON: working in a culture where professionals are
ANNIE HUDSON: able to challenge each other respectfully
ANNIE HUDSON: because this is, as we've said, very
ANNIE HUDSON: difficult, complex work.
ANNIE HUDSON: And sometimes safeguarding
ANNIE HUDSON: practitioners have to think the unthinkable
ANNIE HUDSON: about families and what may be happening, as
ANNIE HUDSON: I think this very well illustrated in the
ANNIE HUDSON: review about sexual abuse.
ANNIE HUDSON: We know sometimes people can take information
ANNIE HUDSON: too much at face value.
ANNIE HUDSON: That has been manifested in numbers
ANNIE HUDSON: of inquiries over the years.
ANNIE HUDSON: So it's encouraging that culture where people
ANNIE HUDSON: are forever curious; that they have the good
ANNIE HUDSON: relationships with families, but they also,
ANNIE HUDSON: when necessary, can be a bit sceptical and
ANNIE HUDSON: ask that second question, third order
ANNIE HUDSON: question, about what may really be happening
ANNIE HUDSON: with children and families.
JENNY COLES: And following on from that, what is really
JENNY COLES: important and comes out strongly is
JENNY COLES: the need for strong and effective links
JENNY COLES: between children's services and
JENNY COLES: adult services.
JENNY COLES: As we said earlier, that
JENNY COLES: particularly came out in the annual report
JENNY COLES: when we were looking at mental
JENNY COLES: health needs of parents of under-fives, but
JENNY COLES: actually throughout the age group.
JENNY COLES: And there rightly is a big focus on
JENNY COLES: transition, you know, ages 16 to
JENNY COLES: 25, of young people with special
JENNY COLES: educational needs and disabilities.
JENNY COLES: Adult services
JENNY COLES: are often involved with parents and carers or
JENNY COLES: extended family, and the really important
JENNY COLES: thing is that they see them as carers or
JENNY COLES: parents as well as having their individual
JENNY COLES: needs, and I think that is a strong
JENNY COLES: area that comes out in reviews and it's an
JENNY COLES: area that clearly needs to move forward.
JENNY COLES: Many safeguarding partnerships are working in
JENNY COLES: that area. And I'd say that join-up at
JENNY COLES: government level as well, Annie, going back,
JENNY COLES: you know, is the same as it is needed at a
JENNY COLES: local level.
ANNIE HUDSON: Yes.
ANNIE HUDSON: And of course, at the national level and
ANNIE HUDSON: through the new legislation, there is a
ANNIE HUDSON: direction of travel around establishing
ANNIE HUDSON: multi-agency child protection teams, which
ANNIE HUDSON: was the recommendation from the Panel in the
ANNIE HUDSON: report we did about the tragic deaths of
ANNIE HUDSON: Arthur Labinjo-Hughes and Star Hobson.
ANNIE HUDSON: That report was Child protection in England,
ANNIE HUDSON: which came to the conclusion that we needed a
ANNIE HUDSON: bit of a design change in aspects
ANNIE HUDSON: of the child protection system: so to address
ANNIE HUDSON: those points that Jenny's just been making
ANNIE HUDSON: about the fragmentation and the siloed nature
ANNIE HUDSON: of information sharing, decisions, ideas
ANNIE HUDSON: about thresholds and so on; to really develop
ANNIE HUDSON: much more of a shared culture and shared way
ANNIE HUDSON: of working; to responding to these
ANNIE HUDSON: children who are at the most at risk of
ANNIE HUDSON: significant harm.
ANNIE HUDSON: I mean, you know, one of the things we've
ANNIE HUDSON: also tried to understand and make sense of —
ANNIE HUDSON: particularly in the last two annual reports,
ANNIE HUDSON: which Jenny and I have been closely
ANNIE HUDSON: involved in — is also to recognise and speak
ANNIE HUDSON: to that context, the very challenging context
ANNIE HUDSON: of child protection and safeguarding work.
ANNIE HUDSON: Whether that's workforce turnover,
ANNIE HUDSON: whether that's diminished budgets,
ANNIE HUDSON: particularly in relation to early help and
ANNIE HUDSON: preventative services; the fact that when an
ANNIE HUDSON: agency is under pressure, there is always
ANNIE HUDSON: that likelihood of a bit of retrenchment
ANNIE HUDSON: and not reaching out to other agencies and so
ANNIE HUDSON: on. And we know the system has been under
ANNIE HUDSON: extraordinary pressure.
ANNIE HUDSON: So we have endeavoured in our last two annual
ANNIE HUDSON: reports to really speak to and articulate
ANNIE HUDSON: that much more, haven't we?
JENNY COLES: Yes. Yeah, absolutely — and how that's
JENNY COLES: impacted on engaging the children and
JENNY COLES: families, having a constant practitioner
JENNY COLES: involved, and how the feedback when
JENNY COLES: reviews have involved families, they've said
JENNY COLES: the number of people involved hasn't helped in
JENNY COLES: terms of keeping that child's story
JENNY COLES: at the centre of what you do.
JENNY COLES: But the pressures on workforce are evident
JENNY COLES: throughout. And we're not just talking about
JENNY COLES: local authority workforces, we're talking
JENNY COLES: about a variety of health practitioners as
JENNY COLES: well. So with that, that sharing
JENNY COLES: of information and the right information and
JENNY COLES: understanding — because this is complex.
JENNY COLES: You know, we always talk about sharing
JENNY COLES: information, but actually the complexity of
JENNY COLES: that, knowing what to share but understanding
JENNY COLES: it when you have it becomes even more
JENNY COLES: important.
ANNIE HUDSON: And I suppose it's one
ANNIE HUDSON: of the areas, when things have gone wrong for
ANNIE HUDSON: children, that point about information
ANNIE HUDSON: sharing comes up time and time again.
ANNIE HUDSON: I think we understand the public and
ANNIE HUDSON: sometimes the media [thinks], "well, why
ANNIE HUDSON: can't you kind of improve that and have the
ANNIE HUDSON: right systems?" And there is a point about
ANNIE HUDSON: that. The proposal around a single unique
ANNIE HUDSON: identifier, which is in the new legislation,
ANNIE HUDSON: the Children's Wellbeing [and Schools] Bill,
ANNIE HUDSON: will help, but it's much more around
ANNIE HUDSON: having the culture and the time to reflect
ANNIE HUDSON: and work together and talk together.
ANNIE HUDSON: Because sending an email, for example, which
ANNIE HUDSON: is often the quickest thing to do and which
ANNIE HUDSON: we all do when we're under pressure, may not
ANNIE HUDSON: be as enriching in terms of understanding and
ANNIE HUDSON: knowing what's going on in a family life,
ANNIE HUDSON: than picking up the phone and having the
ANNIE HUDSON: conversation with the GP or the head teacher
ANNIE HUDSON: or the school teacher or whatever.
ANNIE HUDSON: And so the point about really considering
ANNIE HUDSON: and making sure that the conditions for high
ANNIE HUDSON: quality practice are in place, which is
ANNIE HUDSON: partly about workforce and having the supply
ANNIE HUDSON: of well-qualified professionals, but it's
ANNIE HUDSON: also about enabling people to have the time
ANNIE HUDSON: and the space to really reflect on what is
ANNIE HUDSON: it we know about what's going on in this
ANNIE HUDSON: child and family's life.
ANNIE HUDSON: What is it that, you know, maybe the GP can
ANNIE HUDSON: share, or the health visitor, or the social
ANNIE HUDSON: worker, to really get that rounded and
ANNIE HUDSON: in-depth picture that is going to be a much
ANNIE HUDSON: better foundation for decisive action when
ANNIE HUDSON: decisive action needs to be taken.
HOST: Absolutely. Because you started off by
HOST: talking about the different agencies and how the
HOST: different agencies are working together, but the
HOST: practitioners themselves will just be working for one
HOST: of those agencies, and that's the context that
HOST: they're working in. But then you went on to talk
HOST: about, Annie, what professionals can do on an
HOST: individual level when they are interacting.
HOST: So I noticed that both of your reports have these
HOST: reflective questions for practitioners in
HOST: there, so that you are addressing them as well as the
HOST: agencies and the safeguarding partnerships and the
HOST: government. Can you talk a little bit more about how
HOST: you developed those reflective questions for
HOST: practitioners?
JENNY COLES: Yeah, absolutely.
JENNY COLES: I mean, we hope that the reflective questions
JENNY COLES: really help practitioners and indeed
JENNY COLES: senior leaders — they're not just for
JENNY COLES: practitioners, they're for senior leaders and
JENNY COLES: and safeguarding partnerships — to think and
JENNY COLES: reflect on their practice, take on board some
JENNY COLES: of the evidence we present in our reports and
JENNY COLES: look at how they might change their practice.
JENNY COLES: We do consult with safeguarding partners
JENNY COLES: and stakeholders around some of those
JENNY COLES: reflective questions, so we make sure that, we
JENNY COLES: hope, they'll be helpful.
JENNY COLES: They can be used in a variety of ways.
JENNY COLES: I said about talking at safeguarding
JENNY COLES: partnerships, so at a strategic level, but
JENNY COLES: practitioners can use them in their teams;
JENNY COLES: they can use them perhaps in multi-agency
JENNY COLES: meetings about how they might be working
JENNY COLES: to support a particular family as well; and
JENNY COLES: indeed inform any action planning in terms
JENNY COLES: of improving practice. I'd like to just give
JENNY COLES: one example as well.
JENNY COLES: In our forthcoming report around race and
JENNY COLES: racism in child protection decision-making,
JENNY COLES: there is a series of reflective questions in
JENNY COLES: there which we think will help practitioners
JENNY COLES: and safeguarding partners look at how they're
JENNY COLES: working with various communities and children
JENNY COLES: and families within their local areas.
JENNY COLES: And they might be uncomfortable questions, but
JENNY COLES: we hope they're practical ones, which will
JENNY COLES: help them improve their practice.
HOST: Great. So that's something to look for in the report
HOST: that will be published soon.
JENNY COLES: Yeah. Absolutely.
HOST: Lovely, thank you.
HOST: This theme around working with children and families
HOST: and all the different services that are involved with
HOST: children and families, is another common theme coming
HOST: out through all of your reports as well.
HOST: So, you've talked a little bit about this already,
HOST: but what are those main issues for practitioners
HOST: when they're working with children and families where
HOST: there are safeguarding concerns?
ANNIE HUDSON: I mean, some of it goes back to the point we
ANNIE HUDSON: were talking about earlier on about the
ANNIE HUDSON: conditions of practice. So, you know, there's
ANNIE HUDSON: the obvious things about reasonable
ANNIE HUDSON: workloads. Having access to really good
ANNIE HUDSON: supervision — and by that, I think we
ANNIE HUDSON: mean not just that somebody is making sure
ANNIE HUDSON: that they've done the right things and filled
ANNIE HUDSON: out the right forms, and that sort of
ANNIE HUDSON: bureaucratic side of protection work is
ANNIE HUDSON: important, and I would never want to diminish
ANNIE HUDSON: its significance — but it's also about having
ANNIE HUDSON: supervision that actually enables pupils to
ANNIE HUDSON: really reflect on their assumptions, their
ANNIE HUDSON: bias within. They need to, you know...
ANNIE HUDSON: family lives can change very dramatically
ANNIE HUDSON: and very suddenly, and [they need] to really
ANNIE HUDSON: incorporate what's happened or a recent
ANNIE HUDSON: change in family in terms of what does that
ANNIE HUDSON: mean for a child. So I think that supervision
ANNIE HUDSON: is so, so important.
ANNIE HUDSON: I do think that the proposal around
ANNIE HUDSON: multi-agency child protection teams — which
ANNIE HUDSON: of course is being tested out now through
ANNIE HUDSON: ten pathfinder areas — which is really
ANNIE HUDSON: about bringing together some of those
ANNIE HUDSON: professionals and agencies so that you can
ANNIE HUDSON: have much more of a real time picture of all
ANNIE HUDSON: the information that different professionals
ANNIE HUDSON: will have about what's going on.
ANNIE HUDSON: I think for me, that gives us a lot of
ANNIE HUDSON: optimism and hope that we can begin
ANNIE HUDSON: to address some of the faultlines in the
ANNIE HUDSON: system that have surfaced as these perennial
ANNIE HUDSON: themes in very many inquiries and regularly
ANNIE HUDSON: in local reviews.
ANNIE HUDSON: That shift of culture and ways of working, I
ANNIE HUDSON: think, isn't going to be the absolute
ANNIE HUDSON: solution because this is really, really
ANNIE HUDSON: difficult work. And I think sometimes people
ANNIE HUDSON: want or hope that people can look into the
ANNIE HUDSON: crystal ball and know what's going to happen
ANNIE HUDSON: next week with a child in the family.
ANNIE HUDSON: Nobody can ever do that.
ANNIE HUDSON: But what we can do is understand risk and
ANNIE HUDSON: assess risk and make the decisions the best
ANNIE HUDSON: possible decisions for a child based on the
ANNIE HUDSON: information that we have.
JENNY COLES: Yeah, I don't think I've got anything more
JENNY COLES: really to add actually, Annie, to
JENNY COLES: that. You know, that is the core.
JENNY COLES: And from the evidence we can see,
JENNY COLES: bringing professionals together and indeed
JENNY COLES: co-locating them in some of the tasks
JENNY COLES: that are required in terms of doing good child
JENNY COLES: protection will really encourage that.
JENNY COLES: That was a very clear message from the Child
JENNY COLES: Protection in England review there.
JENNY COLES: And we can see that played out in individual
JENNY COLES: reviews as well.
ANNIE HUDSON: And I think it's also probably important to
ANNIE HUDSON: say, although we are looking through that
ANNIE HUDSON: lens of when things have gone awfully wrong
ANNIE HUDSON: for children, and that's undeniable,
ANNIE HUDSON: what we do see is some really good and strong
ANNIE HUDSON: practice too. Sometimes in terms
ANNIE HUDSON: of that, almost the primary task of child
ANNIE HUDSON: protection — well, one of the primary tasks —
ANNIE HUDSON: which is to understand what life is really
ANNIE HUDSON: like for a child and not to assume that what
ANNIE HUDSON: a parent may say or what a professional might
ANNIE HUDSON: think is the absolute truth, not that there
ANNIE HUDSON: is necessarily one truth.
ANNIE HUDSON: But we see some really wonderful
ANNIE HUDSON: examples of great imagination and creativity
ANNIE HUDSON: by professionals in finding ways to talk to
ANNIE HUDSON: children, to help them talk about what's
ANNIE HUDSON: going on for them. But it's also clear that
ANNIE HUDSON: that requires that time and space
ANNIE HUDSON: and ability to go on learning and developing
ANNIE HUDSON: your skills, because children are not
ANNIE HUDSON: immediately going to talk about the horrible
ANNIE HUDSON: things in their lives, they will often clam
ANNIE HUDSON: up. And so it requires extraordinary skill
ANNIE HUDSON: and imagination for practitioners
ANNIE HUDSON: to really be able to step into that child's
ANNIE HUDSON: life, mind, experience and then to be able to
ANNIE HUDSON: make sense of it so that the right decisions
ANNIE HUDSON: can be made.
JENNY COLES: I think the other area I'd like to add, and
JENNY COLES: what we've seen through reviews, probably in
JENNY COLES: the last 18 months, is the inclusion of the
JENNY COLES: whole family and particularly males; fathers,
JENNY COLES: grandfathers and so forth.
JENNY COLES: The Panel did a review probably about three
JENNY COLES: years or more ago, and that's referenced
JENNY COLES: in reviews, but we can see that actually
JENNY COLES: the immediate and extended family are
JENNY COLES: increasingly involved in terms of the support
JENNY COLES: and work and contribution to protecting
JENNY COLES: children, which has been really, really
JENNY COLES: good practice and good to see.
HOST: It sounds really important that, doesn't it?
HOST: And absolutely it should be happening.
HOST: And it must also be challenging for the
HOST: practitioners, though, to be working with these wider
HOST: families and understanding what's going
HOST: on and who's involved and the different
HOST: stories that they may be hearing from the different
HOST: practitioners.
ANNIE HUDSON: Yeah. And I think that, you know, you're
ANNIE HUDSON: getting there to the heart of
ANNIE HUDSON: the intrinsic challenge of protecting
ANNIE HUDSON: children.
ANNIE HUDSON: Making sense of those different stories and
ANNIE HUDSON: perspectives you will get from different
ANNIE HUDSON: family members, which, you know, going back
ANNIE HUDSON: to that point about engaging with children so
ANNIE HUDSON: you have a sense — harder, obviously with
ANNIE HUDSON: non-verbal children, babies and so on — what
ANNIE HUDSON: life is like for them.
ANNIE HUDSON: But it just does highlight how it is such
ANNIE HUDSON: difficult, difficult work and how,
ANNIE HUDSON: you know, I think it was well evidenced in
ANNIE HUDSON: the stories about Arthur and Starr that
ANNIE HUDSON: suddenly things can change in a family, and
ANNIE HUDSON: how a parent is can become very different
ANNIE HUDSON: because of those changes.
ANNIE HUDSON: So, you know, you can't assume that how
ANNIE HUDSON: things were six months ago is how things are
ANNIE HUDSON: now for a child.
ANNIE HUDSON: But that's the nature of child protection is
ANNIE HUDSON: that you have to, as I think, a social work
ANNIE HUDSON: academic said, you have to think the worst of
ANNIE HUDSON: families and the best of families
ANNIE HUDSON: simultaneously; and that's tough, I think.
HOST: And it's also the...
HOST: This goes back to the importance of information
HOST: sharing, that a new piece of information that
HOST: comes to light, either because something wasn't known
HOST: before or because circumstances have changed,
HOST: and that's why it's so important that that new
HOST: information is then shared to put those pieces
HOST: together again, isn't it? So that then we've got a
HOST: better overview of what is really going on for that
HOST: child. So we've been having
HOST: a really good discussion around how challenging
HOST: and complex child protection and safeguarding is, and
HOST: how we need to work with children and families, and
HOST: how agencies need to work with each other.
HOST: So many different, important things.
HOST: But how does the Panel work
HOST: to influence some of these things?
HOST: Working with government, working with other national
HOST: agencies in order to improve what
HOST: is happening for children on the ground in the way
HOST: that the professionals are able to respond.
ANNIE HUDSON: So I suppose we do that in a number of ways
ANNIE HUDSON: in terms of the national outward look
ANNIE HUDSON: aspect of the work.
ANNIE HUDSON: Clearly, as you've heard today, through
ANNIE HUDSON: national reviews we make recommendations to
ANNIE HUDSON: government. So the two that we've mentioned
ANNIE HUDSON: around sexual abuse in the family involvement
ANNIE HUDSON: make very clear recommendations to
ANNIE HUDSON: government, and we know that they will
ANNIE HUDSON: respond when they've
ANNIE HUDSON: had a chance to digest and so on.
ANNIE HUDSON: And similarly with the Child Protection in
ANNIE HUDSON: England report there were a number of
ANNIE HUDSON: recommendations about multi-agency child
ANNIE HUDSON: protection teams, cross-government working,
ANNIE HUDSON: aspects of working together which we felt
ANNIE HUDSON: needed to change.
ANNIE HUDSON: Again, that came through; obviously in time
ANNIE HUDSON: there was a new Working together [to
ANNIE HUDSON: safeguarding children statutory guidance] which reflected some
ANNIE HUDSON: of those findings.
ANNIE HUDSON: And then I suppose there's a broader
ANNIE HUDSON: way in which we might try and influence
ANNIE HUDSON: government. For example, in terms of
ANNIE HUDSON: improving how information sharing
ANNIE HUDSON: operates, which may come out of the evidence
ANNIE HUDSON: from national reviews or local reviews, but
ANNIE HUDSON: where we're seeking to influence across
ANNIE HUDSON: government the way in which they're thinking
ANNIE HUDSON: — depending a bit on their priorities
ANNIE HUDSON: at the time. One of the reviews that
ANNIE HUDSON: we did about children with disabilities
ANNIE HUDSON: living in residential homes, there was some
ANNIE HUDSON: very important recommendations in there about
ANNIE HUDSON: regulation and inspection.
JENNY COLES: That review considered many children
JENNY COLES: actually where they were living away from
JENNY COLES: home, and therefore that adds to their
JENNY COLES: vulnerability. Many of them were non-verbal
JENNY COLES: or at least had alternative means of
JENNY COLES: communication.
JENNY COLES: And out of that [came] very clear
JENNY COLES: learning and evidence for change
JENNY COLES: in the regulation of residential
JENNY COLES: schools that had care and children's homes;
JENNY COLES: refocusing of the inspection system
JENNY COLES: by Ofsted and the Care Quality Commission;
JENNY COLES: and really looking at the
JENNY COLES: regulation and the quality of the workforce
JENNY COLES: who work in residential care.
JENNY COLES: So they were very clear national
JENNY COLES: recommendations as well as advocacy for
JENNY COLES: children with complex health needs
JENNY COLES: and disabilities. So a real attempt,
JENNY COLES: we hope, to change the national system and
JENNY COLES: improve the protection of children who have to
JENNY COLES: live away from home.
ANNIE HUDSON: And I suppose that review in a way
ANNIE HUDSON: encapsulates, as other reviews have done,
ANNIE HUDSON: the role of the Panel in being very
ANNIE HUDSON: evidence-led.
ANNIE HUDSON: I mean, that's what is one of our mantras,
ANNIE HUDSON: that is about looking at the evidence
ANNIE HUDSON: and evaluating the evidence — or indeed
ANNIE HUDSON: sometimes where there is a lack of evidence —
ANNIE HUDSON: but speaking to that and using that to
ANNIE HUDSON: challenge, sometimes provoke, sometimes
ANNIE HUDSON: prompt questions about practice, but also
ANNIE HUDSON: about policy. So I suppose we sit between
ANNIE HUDSON: looking at the granular detail and
ANNIE HUDSON: understanding that, but also speaking
ANNIE HUDSON: to the wider strategic conversations that are
ANNIE HUDSON: going on. So we're one of the players in that
ANNIE HUDSON: safeguarding national ecosystem, but working
ANNIE HUDSON: with other organisations: the associations,
ANNIE HUDSON: directors of Children's Services, College of
ANNIE HUDSON: Policing, NHS England and indeed,
ANNIE HUDSON: you know, voluntary organisations, the NSPCC.
ANNIE HUDSON: I mean we have, I think, a
ANNIE HUDSON: developing collaboration in terms of working
ANNIE HUDSON: within our different and respective roles,
ANNIE HUDSON: but where we can kind of come together, for
ANNIE HUDSON: example, as we're thinking about in relation
ANNIE HUDSON: to neglect. The NSPCC has done some work on
ANNIE HUDSON: neglect, we are doing something.
ANNIE HUDSON: So using that, creating
ANNIE HUDSON: coalitions where coming together can
ANNIE HUDSON: create the potential for greater influence
ANNIE HUDSON: and impact in the longer term on children.
ANNIE HUDSON: And that's what we're all here to do, isn't
ANNIE HUDSON: it?
JENNY COLES: And that review we've just been talking about
JENNY COLES: was done in collaboration with the Council for
JENNY COLES: Disabled Children and the National Children's
JENNY COLES: Bureau.
HOST: Lovely. That feels like a really perfect place to end
HOST: the podcast today.
HOST: Thank you very much for your time, both
HOST: of you. I think that's been a really interesting
HOST: discussion. For our listeners, you can read both
HOST: the reports we've talked about today on the GOV.UK
HOST: website, and we'll put the links to the reports in
HOST: the podcast shownotes.
HOST: There's lots more information about case reviews on
HOST: the NSPCC Learning website as well.
HOST: But no, thank you very much both for your time.
JENNY COLES: Thank you.
ANNIE HUDSON: Thank you.
OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning Podcast.
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OUTRO: protection is ever-changing.
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OUTRO: safeguarding and child protection training,
OUTRO: information or resources, please visit
OUTRO: our website for professionals at nspcc.org.uk/learning.