00:00:32:18 - 00:00:44:17
Speaker 2
The thing that pops out to me about this more than anything is, is that, you know, barbecue used to be, like, a regional style thing here and there, and,

00:00:44:17 - 00:00:52:22
Speaker 2
it's not really that way anymore. There's been little nuggets picked from everywhere, and it's like getting throw it in this big melting pot.

00:00:53:00 - 00:00:55:08
Speaker 2
So it's that's pretty interesting to think about.

00:00:55:10 - 00:01:25:10
Speaker 1
So I'm thinking that tonight we're going to be digging into the heart of barbecue smokers rubs and sauces. We're going to be starting with regional classics. But here's the twist. Modern barbecue gone global. Blending Texas brisket with Korean guar chang and Carolina pork with middle Eastern spices. That's right. We're going full fusion. Global classics. Things that start with salt and pepper and end with Chinese five spice rub.

00:01:25:12 - 00:01:42:02
Speaker 1
It's a flavor revolution, and we're here to break it down. So we're gearing or we're going to be talking about gear ingredients and how today's Pitmasters are remixing history into something new. So grab your tongs, nerds. Let's get into it.

00:01:42:02 - 00:01:43:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, man.

00:01:43:10 - 00:01:48:06
Speaker 1
By the way, tonight's episode is sponsored by Smoke Slinger Pits. Get yours at

00:01:48:06 - 00:02:05:19
Speaker 1
Smoke slinger.com. We've got the mini A 24 by 30. The full size smoke slinger, which is a 24 by 48, and the all new Liberty 94 offset smoker, just launched the 2nd of February 2025. With that said, let's get back into our program.

00:02:05:21 - 00:02:10:19
Speaker 2
It's just barely been a month to. It's amazing since we launched. It is pretty cool.

00:02:10:21 - 00:02:11:16
Speaker 1
It is. But yeah.

00:02:11:18 - 00:02:19:04
Speaker 2
So, you know, I guess we should start talking about the smokers first. You know, kind of like the the evolution of all of that.

00:02:19:04 - 00:02:24:02
Speaker 2
You know, of course, Texas barbecue at first thing everybody thinks of is either a brick,

00:02:24:02 - 00:02:26:10
Speaker 2
pit or they're thinking about,

00:02:26:10 - 00:02:29:22
Speaker 2
like an offset, like a big propane tank offset smoker.

00:02:29:22 - 00:02:35:11
Speaker 2
Those that haven't been around the block or maybe new to this,

00:02:35:11 - 00:02:39:01
Speaker 2
there's a whole nother style of smoker that is just as old.

00:02:39:03 - 00:02:46:23
Speaker 2
These big wood fired rotisserie, like a junior or an old boiler. If you ever hear somebody talk about that,

00:02:46:23 - 00:03:02:00
Speaker 2
a couple of those different brands of pits, Eminem has their version of it. You know, those those pits are just as old and have been, just as instrumental in, in, in the inspiration of the, the flavors and stuff that we have in Texas.

00:03:02:02 - 00:03:02:15
Speaker 2
You know,

00:03:02:15 - 00:03:07:21
Speaker 2
you've got oak, you got embers in some of those pits.

00:03:07:21 - 00:03:17:23
Speaker 2
The first thing people come to mind, first thing comes to mind is going to be brisket and beef, like shoulder clod sausage made from the trim, stuff like that.

00:03:18:01 - 00:03:32:23
Speaker 1
I got to tell you, I do love a good shoulder clod cooked low and slow for hours upon hours. And being able to create that, that, that mouthfeel, that texture of pulled beef.

00:03:32:23 - 00:03:41:18
Speaker 1
I enjoy simple seasonings like your salt, pepper and garlic. But there does come a time where I do like my hot sauces as well.

00:03:41:20 - 00:03:48:20
Speaker 1
I know a lot of the hot sauces out there. I do have a vinegar base that's going to bring us to some of those regions that we we're going to talk about,

00:03:48:20 - 00:04:03:11
Speaker 1
those being most likely the Carolinas, Georgia. Kansas City, traditional Texas barbecue coming from North Texas, central Texas, West Texas, east Texas, south Texas. Each region in Texas brings its own flair.

00:04:03:13 - 00:04:12:18
Speaker 1
And let's not forget that we we've also gotten there. Georgia and of course, your home region out there in the Midwest, the Zorah.

00:04:12:20 - 00:04:20:05
Speaker 2
Missouri. Well, you know, Missouri is kind of split in, in two different, I think diagonally.

00:04:20:05 - 00:04:35:21
Speaker 2
From southwest to northeast. The the northern section, like the northwest, is, of course, Kansas City, what we would call it. And you're going to see a lot of vertical brick pits. There was a old timer up there that was built in the pits in like gates.

00:04:35:21 - 00:04:40:18
Speaker 2
And some of those original stores up there. Arthur Bryant's, that kind of thing. And,

00:04:40:18 - 00:04:48:01
Speaker 2
and those, those pits are typically like, right behind the counter. There's a door on the front of it.

00:04:48:01 - 00:04:52:20
Speaker 2
Coalbed underneath embers, typically. Maybe throw in a split on and,

00:04:52:20 - 00:04:57:18
Speaker 2
they, they move meat up and down vertically to hit those temp zones in there.

00:04:57:20 - 00:05:02:05
Speaker 2
So you do get like a brick pit. Kind of a field of that.

00:05:02:05 - 00:05:08:04
Speaker 2
The original stuff. And then down in the Boot hill, what we call the southeast side of, of Missouri,

00:05:08:04 - 00:05:14:20
Speaker 2
we're getting more into some, some rotisserie action. Of course. Old Hickory Pits is from Cape Girardeau.

00:05:14:20 - 00:05:15:06
Speaker 2
There was,

00:05:15:06 - 00:05:18:13
Speaker 2
the J. And hours in there, and the rotisserie is like that.

00:05:18:15 - 00:05:22:07
Speaker 2
That's they were using those early on and,

00:05:22:07 - 00:05:36:11
Speaker 2
talked to David Knight, the guy that used that, that still owns Old Hickory Pits. He told me the whole reason he started Old Hickory Pits is because an older burned store down. So at that point, it was like, okay, I'm making these and they're not going to burn stores down, is what he told me.

00:05:36:11 - 00:05:50:12
Speaker 2
So that's how that began. So there is definitely like this no man's land in the middle where like, there's no style has been defined in Missouri. So it's it's it is like the ultimate melting pot. I think

00:05:50:12 - 00:05:53:00
Speaker 2
everybody was trying to pick a side.

00:05:53:02 - 00:06:00:09
Speaker 1
So are they. It sounds like they might be closer aligned with, with Tennessee, where it's just, you know,

00:06:00:09 - 00:06:05:07
Speaker 1
you've got a melting pot of of different type of cooking styles all coming together.

00:06:05:09 - 00:06:17:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Like if you go around Memphis, you're going to get more into that vertical style brick pit. But their pits are built different than the ones that were built in Kansas City. They're basically big round bar, like one inch round bar.

00:06:17:12 - 00:06:23:13
Speaker 2
They they pitch coal underneath, except these days they just use charcoal and they throw it across the bottom of the pit.

00:06:23:14 - 00:06:25:07
Speaker 2
Thinking in my mind right now is,

00:06:25:07 - 00:06:26:23
Speaker 2
tops barbecue,

00:06:26:23 - 00:06:38:22
Speaker 2
down there. Kind of like the baseball cards, but it's barbecue. It's very old chain. We had to fix some of their pits a couple of times, but they're brick flues, you know, they're they're pitching embers under shoulders.

00:06:38:22 - 00:06:41:01
Speaker 2
You know, big shoulders and stuff.

00:06:41:01 - 00:06:49:09
Speaker 2
But then you get over into the open pits, and then there's also a lot of the backwoods style, like vertical reverse flows.

00:06:49:11 - 00:06:56:19
Speaker 2
Backwoods was a brand that's down there like water cookers. And now we're kind of getting down into that Georgia kind of method, like,

00:06:56:19 - 00:07:00:10
Speaker 2
down in there with hog cookers and stuff.

00:07:00:12 - 00:07:01:08
Speaker 1
Sure. So.

00:07:01:08 - 00:07:08:20
Speaker 2
So it kind of there's no real fine line. I don't think, in that definition of regional styles of barbecue,

00:07:08:20 - 00:07:10:09
Speaker 2
as far as the cookers go.

00:07:10:11 - 00:07:13:10
Speaker 1
That's very interesting. When I think of cookers,

00:07:13:10 - 00:07:21:03
Speaker 1
let's just start with Texas. I think of those massive offsets built from old propane tanks pumping out post oak smoke,

00:07:21:03 - 00:07:26:20
Speaker 1
for that beefy brisket vibe. By the way, we did have a question in here. Let me just get this one.

00:07:26:20 - 00:07:30:20
Speaker 1
Coming up this weekend. Saturday, March 8th, 2025.

00:07:30:20 - 00:07:35:18
Speaker 1
We do have our meat up spelled m e t up in canton, Texas.

00:07:35:18 - 00:07:39:08
Speaker 1
That's going to be at is it cherry cherry Lane?

00:07:39:10 - 00:07:41:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. Some park named cherry something.

00:07:41:23 - 00:07:45:00
Speaker 1
Correct? Correct. So there was a question that came in here,

00:07:45:00 - 00:07:48:16
Speaker 1
with regards to what we might be serving. And,

00:07:48:16 - 00:07:53:12
Speaker 1
it's from Hojo Barbecue is asking, will there be Claude on the menu in canton?

00:07:53:12 - 00:07:55:01
Speaker 1
The answer is yes.

00:07:55:01 - 00:07:58:10
Speaker 1
Will be a full shoulder,

00:07:58:10 - 00:08:02:03
Speaker 1
from a steer recently.

00:08:02:03 - 00:08:04:22
Speaker 1
Who has met his demise or her demise?

00:08:05:00 - 00:08:10:09
Speaker 1
And that clod will be cooked up this Saturday. We will be doing that.

00:08:10:09 - 00:08:29:23
Speaker 1
It looks like we've got another comment coming in here from Trumpet Master 77 barbecue. Who says Ronnie Scott's original barbecue sauce is delicious? He's correct. And Dustin McCormick, El presidente de chiming in, telling us that name of the park is Cherry Creek Park in Canton, Texas.

00:08:30:01 - 00:08:33:09
Speaker 1
We would love to see you there this Saturday.

00:08:33:11 - 00:08:35:12
Speaker 2
Yup, it's going to be a lot of fun.

00:08:35:14 - 00:08:44:14
Speaker 1
I cannot wait. The menu just keeps growing every day. We're going to need quite a bit of eaters to show up for this event.

00:08:44:14 - 00:08:46:01
Speaker 1
Hopefully we've,

00:08:46:01 - 00:08:49:18
Speaker 1
we've we've got some big eaters. We're going to need some portly individuals. Let's say,

00:08:49:20 - 00:08:51:14
Speaker 2
And some people to help cook, probably.

00:08:51:14 - 00:08:54:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. I hate getting up into trumpets.

00:08:54:01 - 00:08:56:20
Speaker 2
Comment there. That kind of bridges us into the sauces.

00:08:56:20 - 00:08:58:08
Speaker 2
And stuff like that.

00:08:58:10 - 00:09:00:11
Speaker 1
That's correct. Yeah. That's correct.

00:09:00:11 - 00:09:03:13
Speaker 2
So the regional side of that.

00:09:03:15 - 00:09:07:13
Speaker 1
Which is which is very interesting. So when we're talking about,

00:09:07:13 - 00:09:18:07
Speaker 1
regional barbecue, I guess, you know, just getting back to where we were with, with Kansas City hands down there. Rob's a sweet and bold brown sugar, paprika, garlic.

00:09:18:07 - 00:09:25:11
Speaker 1
And and the sauce. It's thick, tomato based, molasses heavy. It's like dessert for your ribs.

00:09:25:11 - 00:09:26:05
Speaker 1
I've.

00:09:26:07 - 00:09:37:20
Speaker 1
I've got to remember the name of the. It's a very famous place in Kansas City. I haven't been to it. I've only had the opportunity to try the sauce. The sauce is is is excellent.

00:09:37:20 - 00:09:40:21
Speaker 1
What? I've done it on ribs when I've used it beforehand.

00:09:40:21 - 00:09:47:08
Speaker 1
It almost comes out like a like a glaze when you allow it to, to set for a bit on your smoker.

00:09:47:08 - 00:09:48:16
Speaker 1
I man the name from a.

00:09:48:16 - 00:09:50:08
Speaker 2
Modern place or an old.

00:09:50:08 - 00:09:54:00
Speaker 1
No, no, it's an old school barbecue place.

00:09:54:23 - 00:10:00:09
Speaker 1
And it doesn't have a fancy label written in script, man. It's downstairs in the basement. Now, that's.

00:10:00:09 - 00:10:03:00
Speaker 2
Probably Arthur Bryant's is written in script.

00:10:03:02 - 00:10:04:15
Speaker 1
You got it. It's Arthur.

00:10:04:17 - 00:10:06:09
Speaker 2
Arthur Bryant's. Yeah. Correct.

00:10:06:09 - 00:10:07:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. That

00:10:07:11 - 00:10:14:02
Speaker 2
I think out of all the, the OG places, I've probably had better barbecue at

00:10:14:02 - 00:10:15:13
Speaker 2
at Arthur Bryant's.

00:10:16:12 - 00:10:18:10
Speaker 2
Personally now there's like Zarda

00:10:18:10 - 00:10:26:02
Speaker 2
Zarda is kind of like for a certain time period there was like the King of Burn ends in, in

00:10:26:02 - 00:10:35:07
Speaker 2
it zarda there. But, you know, they all kind of had had their start right there with that. But once KCBs got started and,

00:10:35:07 - 00:10:39:05
Speaker 2
of course, Texas barbecue started to, like, really take off and roll.

00:10:39:07 - 00:10:40:04
Speaker 2
That brought,

00:10:40:04 - 00:10:46:12
Speaker 2
vast array of different kinds of sauces and seasonings to the Kansas City area.

00:10:46:12 - 00:10:50:17
Speaker 2
With it, you know, Cimarron Doc's that that's an OG,

00:10:50:17 - 00:11:09:00
Speaker 2
Kansas City rub. That's basically one of the foundation rubs pretty much. There's like these classic rubs that are like the foundation of what everybody is doing today. And usually what it was is a combination of a couple of rubs like Cimarron Doc's and smoking guns hot.

00:11:09:01 - 00:11:09:17
Speaker 2
Those are both,

00:11:09:17 - 00:11:12:17
Speaker 2
restaurants there in Kansas City. Smoking guns is,

00:11:12:17 - 00:11:13:07
Speaker 2
is a,

00:11:13:07 - 00:11:18:22
Speaker 2
I don't know when they got started. I'm assuming, like the 90s. Maybe it could have been earlier.

00:11:18:22 - 00:11:20:07
Speaker 2
But smoking guns hot,

00:11:20:07 - 00:11:28:13
Speaker 2
like, we use that on everything. And then they had gunpowder and we would top with that. But that became a one bite flavor contest, is what that became.

00:11:28:13 - 00:11:33:14
Speaker 2
And competition barbecue. But now you've got guys like Chef Jay's,

00:11:33:14 - 00:11:52:01
Speaker 2
you know, Wolfpack is there. Those guys are bringing the, the, the more offset smoker style barbecue into Kansas City. You know, it's it's not just the old brick pits these days. Of course Todd Johnson plow boys, plow boys is is Kansas City is it gets right there.

00:11:52:03 - 00:11:56:19
Speaker 2
Matter of fact, one of the sources is called KC crossroads. That's an area in the Kansas City area.

00:11:56:21 - 00:11:58:07
Speaker 1
Talking about ball boys.

00:11:58:07 - 00:12:00:03
Speaker 1
The opportunity to,

00:12:00:03 - 00:12:19:13
Speaker 1
just last week as I was cooking to take the Yardbird Rub. And yeah, I'd never noticed before hand what I'm thinking. Yardbird. I'm always thinking chicken right there on the on the label. It tells you it's good on pork. I ended up using that on that caribou, the pork. But my goodness, what flavor, what great color it puts on the outside.

00:12:19:15 - 00:12:26:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, before it ever hit the the the smoker the. Yeah. From all the, the

00:12:26:07 - 00:12:37:14
Speaker 1
the the different ingredients that are in there. It just made the pork this mahogany red. It looked unbelievable. I can't wait for that video to come out. And I did give a preview. I gave just a little bit of this,

00:12:37:14 - 00:12:46:11
Speaker 1
of a of a teaser, but I can't wait for that video to come out and for people to see what that that piece of pork came out looking like when it was finished cooking.

00:12:46:13 - 00:12:51:21
Speaker 1
Just incredible color all around. Congratulations to those guys at Plow Boys.

00:12:51:21 - 00:12:52:17
Speaker 2
So that's,

00:12:52:17 - 00:12:58:17
Speaker 2
as far as Kansas City goes, that's kind of what we've got right there. It is a sweet there's a lot of sugar in it.

00:12:58:17 - 00:13:09:13
Speaker 2
You know, it's a tomato based sauce. Typically there is some molasses, some thickness to the original rubs of course, with, like I say, competition coming in. We started to get thinner,

00:13:09:13 - 00:13:12:12
Speaker 2
more glaze on ribs, stuff like that.

00:13:12:12 - 00:13:13:23
Speaker 1
That's very interesting.

00:13:13:23 - 00:13:18:17
Speaker 1
So I do love that KC sweetness. But how would you contrast that with Texas, a

00:13:18:17 - 00:13:31:15
Speaker 1
Central Texas rub which, which are minimalistic. You have your salt, pepper, maybe a hint of cayenne but sauce I don't know, it's kind of optional. And when they do give it to you, it's thin and smoky if it's there at all.

00:13:31:17 - 00:13:45:21
Speaker 1
I think that's in my experience of being in Texas, and I know that in the chat room right now, we've got quite a few people from Texas that are chiming in, but is is sauce like the, the, the no, no in Texas,

00:13:45:21 - 00:13:59:17
Speaker 1
is it is it okay to put it on your your your if you're a pitmaster, is it okay to put it on there when you're preparing your food, or is it simply like, you know, an optional condiment for those people that feel they need a sauce?

00:13:59:19 - 00:14:03:03
Speaker 2
So it just depends on on the pitmaster honestly,

00:14:03:03 - 00:14:08:20
Speaker 2
some you gotta if you're serving barbecue seven days a week and you're, you're a,

00:14:08:20 - 00:14:24:20
Speaker 2
majority of the day, you're trying to have barbecue ready. You're probably going to appeal to the masses. It's so it's got to be barbecue for the masses at that point. We've got to have an array of sauces on the on, you know, on the counter or whatever at the table.

00:14:24:22 - 00:14:33:00
Speaker 2
But now if you're getting down into the guys that are like shooting for the Texas top 50, they're not worried about selling volume. They're more like,

00:14:33:00 - 00:14:50:06
Speaker 2
they're open Thursday through Saturdays typically, or some, you know, four days a week kind of a deal. They're they're famous for running out, that kind of stuff. Now we're getting into. So they'll either they'll usually mop or sauce at the pit or on the plate.

00:14:50:08 - 00:15:00:03
Speaker 2
They're they're probably not. And I'm thinking back to like my experience that, burnt being I love Ernest food. He's one of the greatest cooks, in my opinion, in Texas. And

00:15:00:03 - 00:15:03:01
Speaker 2
which is in Seguin, Texas, if you've ever been there.

00:15:03:01 - 00:15:07:20
Speaker 2
But Best Buy the brisket I've ever had in my life came from him.

00:15:07:20 - 00:15:17:01
Speaker 2
I don't know what he does in it, but I do know that to me, my my impression was is it was a really great thin tomatoey,

00:15:17:01 - 00:15:24:07
Speaker 2
you know, vinegary sauce that had a little bit of bite on the back end that was cut with, like, beef tallow and a little bit of,

00:15:24:07 - 00:15:25:15
Speaker 2
of the, the ozone

00:15:25:15 - 00:15:29:19
Speaker 2
from the brisket, you know, just like the juice. It was like a blend of that.

00:15:29:19 - 00:15:34:16
Speaker 2
And he put it on right at the right at the tray before he handed it to me.

00:15:34:16 - 00:15:40:10
Speaker 2
So it was really, really great. It fit really well with that, though. That's when you're going to get into,

00:15:40:10 - 00:15:43:18
Speaker 2
that's when you're going to get into some really unique situations.

00:15:43:18 - 00:15:57:08
Speaker 2
But for the most part, yeah, it's if if there's sauce present, it's probably going to be something tomato based, thinner, you know, some pepper, a little bit of bite at the back, you know, not overly sweet, not overly,

00:15:57:08 - 00:15:57:19
Speaker 2
hot

00:15:57:19 - 00:15:58:10
Speaker 2
in my my.

00:15:58:10 - 00:16:08:06
Speaker 1
Mouth is watering as you're talking about the natural juices in the beef towel. I'm thinking about how about a French dip right about now? I mean, it's kind of.

00:16:08:08 - 00:16:19:21
Speaker 2
It's kind of what I used to do with my competition brisket. I would cut blues OG and had country 5050 because had countries got that, we were cooking around the border of Oklahoma or,

00:16:19:21 - 00:16:28:01
Speaker 2
Kansas. We had to pull in the head country. And so we would blend those two together, and then we would cut that 5050 with whatever juice we had from the brisket.

00:16:28:03 - 00:16:30:08
Speaker 2
So it's kind of a play in that realm.

00:16:30:08 - 00:16:33:21
Speaker 2
It just depends on how much, how thick you want it. You know.

00:16:33:21 - 00:16:58:06
Speaker 1
That's a wrap for today's episode of the Barbecue Nerds podcast, where smoked meats, science, and flavor always comes first. This episode is brought to you by Smoke Slinger, the craftsman behind some of the best barbecue pits and offset smokers in the game. Whether you're a backyard warrior or a pro, Pitmaster smoke slinger builds custom pits designed to help you cook your best barbecue ever.

00:16:58:08 - 00:17:20:11
Speaker 1
Visit Smoke slinger.com to see their lineup and bring competition quality smoke to your own backyard. A big shout out to smoke slinger fueling our passion and keeping the smoke rolling strong. And as always, keep those pits hot, the smoke rolling and stay nerdy about barbecue.