S2E9 Regular Episode Rough Layout ===
[00:00:00]
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Whoa, dude. All right. Hold on. Let's uh, let's do a minute. Let's kind of do a mini slate.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh, okay.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: So maybe it's the clapping that didn't work. Cause I really noticed it when we both press play at the same time. It kind of works.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: So we'll go, we'll go three, two, one, and then we'll touch our microphones. Ready?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Okay.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Three.
Start up here though. Three, two, one. Go.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh, I went on.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: No. Okay. One more time. Three, two, one. Uh, and I go like play three, two, one. Go. Okay.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: All right. Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Hi, everybody.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: hi, everybody. Thank you for being here. We have a lot of emotions going on right now because we [00:01:00] just, I mean, just
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I totally forgot about that. What a reversal. Uh, we're talking about, um, well,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: So much. This was the sort of deep heart emotional episode. Um, We'll get to all that in the recap. Uh,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: but also on theme, we were talking about family stuff right before we started. So that cut to the bone.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah, that's very true. That's very true. Um, stakes are high these days.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yes.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um, and, okay, so, we have started noticing that when we do interviews, sometimes, don't have time to put them
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: In the episodes.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: the right place. the episode because we want to talk about the episode, but we also want to really have an in depth conversation. So we're going to introduce somebody today we're going to talk to you right after this. It may not make it into this episode. It may be that next week we drop the episode. That's a full interview with him. So[00:02:00]
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh, and that person
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: it.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: is responsible for, So much, so much, so much of what you see in prison break, both in style and literally, uh, it's director of photography, Bob Labonge, L A capital B O N G E. Uh, he's going to come and chat about the show. He shot 16 episodes of the show during seasons one and two.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: He
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And for the yo's don't know, uh, yeah,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: the pilot. I think. I'm not sure about that.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I think so too.
Um, let's talk about what a DP does, Sarah, director of photography. Okay.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: does. Um, a Director of Photography. Uh, So their job is, I'm sorry to say it like this, their job is to direct the photography. So they set the lights. They, uh, often set the camera positions, more often than not they will choose the lens sizes, they will choose the lens package.
Are you shooting on anamorphic primes? Are you shooting on regular primes? Are you shooting on film or digital? Um, most people don't have the choice to shoot on film these days
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Right.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: people who [00:03:00] can do that. In some ways I think the director of photography has the most intimate relationship with the director
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: in theory and all, all kinds of things. All kinds of relationships are different, but in theory, I can say as a director, I want it to look and feel like this emotionally.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yep.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And the DP will translate that
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: it. That's right.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: visual. also on a show like this, on big episodic television, um, You know, the directors who did the most of the show probably did 13 episodes over four seasons, the sort of Kevin Hooks's and the Bobby Roth's, the
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: a lot. a director of photography can do, you know, I mean, on some shows, I think Fernando did like 30 episodes or 20 episodes
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: hmm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Break. and so. In episodic television also, I find a DP's job is to make sure that the look of the show
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Doesn't change.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: is consistent.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: [00:04:00] Yep.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: come in as a visiting director and I've got all kinds of great ideas, those ideas don't deliver an episode that the audience watches and goes, What am I,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: What show is this?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: right, this looks like suits.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. Ah!
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's Gilmore Girls. Do
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. Yeah. I always, um,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: of thing.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: think of, uh, I remember, uh, picking a, uh, DP's brain early in my acting career. And they were just like, we're, well, I'm a photographer. I was like, what do you mean? And they're like, well, imagine it's not a moving, not just on a motion picture camera, it's a camera.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Right,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I was like, Oh, right. All the stuff they studied, they have studied photography and they have then of course, studied motion photography.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: right. And often, and then we'll move on to the index. Uh, but often I find DP's. usually come up in the camera department. They start
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm Hmm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: camera assistants and then operators, and then they move to being a DP. Um, there are often, there are also DPs who come up through the lighting department. They'll start out [00:05:00] lighting and then become a gaffer and then move into a DP.
There's a great DP up here whose name I think is Seamus, um, who started off as a dolly grip actually.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm Hmm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: he was
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Sure.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I knew who came up that way. But by and large, DPs come from the crew. Um, which usually means that by the time someone's a director of photography, they have been working on sets a long time.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: they're really good at what they do.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: they are a director's best friend.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: you, if you're an hour behind because someone didn't come out of their trailer or because there were
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: They're the ones.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: was a rain that you didn't plan for or whatever, the DP is the one that you can turn to and go, Hey. Let's put our heads together and let's shave an hour off this day, and they will have the brilliant ideas. So, okay, before we rattle on endlessly about directors of photography, also P. S. called a cinematographer,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yes.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Paul, you want to kick us off with
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: [00:06:00] Yes. This is episode 209 of Prison Break called Unearthed, which first aired on October 30th, 2006. It was directed by Kevin Hooks, our producing director. It was written by Nick Santora and drew 8. 94 million live viewers in the 8 p. m. time slot against a rerun of Wife Slop. Wife Slop is not what the name of that show is.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I mean,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh, come on, careful. A rerun of Wife Swap on ABC, Deal or No Deal on NBC and a rerun of How I Met Your Mother on CBS.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: So to recap, uh, Michael realizes that Mahone is, uh, killing everyone he catches. So he tracks down Mahone's ex wife, Pam, to learn about his adversary. but Mahone and Kellerman have both cracked the code in the cranes and have realized that they gotta head to New Mexico to intercept Michael at the planned rendezvous with Dr.
Sarah. Meanwhile, Note tries to meet up with his wife and daughter, but Lange gets there first. T Bag arrives at Mrs. Hollander's [00:07:00] home to find that she has put it up for sale and escaped with her children,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Boom, boom, boom.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: and Geary have tracked him there and they torture him to find the money.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Horribly.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: and Lincoln, yeah, horribly, LJ and Lincoln evade the police before captured.
We should note that there is actually no, um. Sucre in this episode,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um, and so there are actually fewer and fewer kind of, uh,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I didn't. Yeah. Uh, in world events on October 27th, it was discovered that Iran was enriching uranium at a second facility, ramping up global concerns about Iran, getting closer to nuclear capability and everything that week is too bleak to mention. So moving on.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Let's move on to pop culture on, um, October 28th, Ludacris's song Moneymaker, featuring Pharrell Williams, knocked Justin Timberlake's sexy back off the Billboard Hot 100 number one spot. I do believe, when I was doing my research for this, that Timberlake got the spot back two weeks ago with [00:08:00] a different song.
They
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Wow.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: for that spot.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Wow.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: went on to win the Grammy for Best Country Album, Just Kidding, Best Rap Song at the 49th Annual Grammy Awards. And on October 31st, Happy Halloween, Barker announced that he would retire from hosting The Price is Right after 35 years and 6, 586
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh my
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: episodes.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: holy cow.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: as Bob Barker would say, at the end of every Price is Right, don't
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Don't forget to spray new to your pets, folks.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: and stick around.
We'll be right back to
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Alright.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: the episode.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Alright.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: uh, a few things to talk about before we get to the interview or don't. We're just gonna talk and we'll see if there's an interview. If you see that there's another, an interview with Bob next week, that means there's not an interview with Bob this week.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: right. because we could probably talk to Bob forever.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Okay,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: truly, truly.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: took notes on the episode.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: did.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: of things that are [00:09:00] slightly more random. Uh, do you want to hit me with your episodic notes? Because I think this was an astonishing episode. I think it was
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: good and so heartfelt, and Kevin Hooks directed the ever living daylights out of it.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I think that, I mean, I don't know how in the writer's room, it's interesting that it's all advancing plot,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: you know, there's still fugitives on the run. There's double there's switchbacks, but there's also a, clearly a theme here. Which is family. I mean, I understand that they use family to deepen the stakes for all these characters. This is why they need to get there. But every single one of these plot lines.
Has some kind of crucial, uh, you learn more about the family dynamics that are at work and that becomes crucial, right? To the
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: we've kind of been digging a hole in a basement for a few episodes. Mm hmm. And to get back to why [00:10:00] that matters, you know, like before it becomes a show about everybody's chasing money.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: right.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: We get to land in, oh my god, C Note's family means the world to him. And, uh, and Lincoln will do anything for LJ, and LJ's gonna make stupid decisions to be with his father, and
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: still a kid, and,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: and then like motive, what motivates teabag.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm hmm,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And that's kind of, it's, it, the scariness of that. It's a way, it's also people using family, families to lure each other in. I mean, uh, Bellic and, um, Gary find T Bag because he goes to Hollander's house.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And Michael
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And Michael does the old reverse, run into the fray and goes, you know, takes it, takes the fight to Mahone in a way, by going to find his ex wife and figuring out the chills in the friggin backyard.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Well, and
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: ways, [00:11:00] that whole arc is,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: although,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: a bit of the crux of the show, which is family is the reason you do everything. And family is also the reason, maybe not family, the people you love are the ones for whom you do everything, but they are also the ones that make you the most Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: with the Mahone thing, first of all, the house he's digging out at the end, that's no, that's his house, like he kicked her out. He kicked her out.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: house.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: So she's at, she's, she's moved conceivably. Yeah. Um, and is the implication there that he basically, I mean, he lost his mind, but he broke up with her, broke up with her, divorced her, kicked her out of the house, essentially to, at some level, protect her
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I think so. I think my
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: son and his son.
Conceivably
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, my read on it was, it's some combination of A, I've become a monster
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: a monster.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: better.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And B,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: a body totally.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: but if you're not living [00:12:00] here and you have plausible deniability, then if I go to prison for this body in the backyard, you get to go on and live your life.
And it's in some ways, it's an interesting parallel because at a certain level Mahone does. What doesn't. Mahone decides for his son. am going to push my wife and son out of my
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Correct.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: to keep them safe. Whereas Lincoln and L. J. stay together
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Which is an emotional decision by Lincoln. Like, like he basically that conversation where he says it's, you know, the Panama plan is dangerous. You can have this life that's free of me. And LJ says, you're not splitting up, are we? And then Lincoln says, no, clearly Lincoln is saying yes. And then when LJ pushes back, he, he collapses under it and now they've gotten caught.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And now they've gotten caught,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And he got hit by a car.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I did not.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Me [00:13:00] neither.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: this is another one of those episodes. I'm not sure I've ever seen before. I mean, I thought I, I don't know. I, I
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Do we both have one scene in this episode?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, I remember shooting this episode. It was like me and Gary Brown and a Delta camera on. second unit, just, uh, phone
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Do you even have any lines? No.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, no, because I, I call and I say, is there a, sundown hotel?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: in all the states. In all the states.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: them. Which, which is sort of amazing that the person on the other end didn't just hang up.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Right. Uh, and I remember shooting that one, you know, I have the one scene on the phone.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: but they made a meal out
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Boy, they did. I remember it too. I remember that day so well. I remember Kevin. Going to town on that scene.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And I remember being like, Oh, you're like, you get a seat like that. And you're like, Oh, I'm going to go to work.
I'm going to be there for like an hour. [00:14:00] And then
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: know, the thing about Kevin, and we haven't actually talked about Kevin Hooks,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: this is a great director,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: He is a fantastic director and his father was a well known actor and he came up as an
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: child actor,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: he was, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he, and you know, by the time he came on to direct the show, um, uh, he'd been directing forever.
In fact, we have a mutual friend, uh, who's a, a director of photography, um, named Todd Dos Reis. And Todd was like, Kevin's retired. Like we tried to get him on the show and he's like, no man, I'm, I'm, I'm retired. Um, done. He's been doing this for a super long time and
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: retired.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: his retirement. Um, retirement, sorry, just for those of you who don't know, retirement is arguably when you've made enough money that you can stop working.
I, I don't know. I, I hear whispers on the wind that this is a thing. Um, but Kevin, what was brilliant with Kevin is because he had such a [00:15:00] deep regard for actors and Respect for that department. He was a wonderful producing director to have. Because he could keep the show running on time. He had the creativity to innovate.
And I really want to talk to Bob Labonge about this. What were
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: they turned to each other and went, We haven't done this on the show before,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh huh. Uh huh.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: His episodes look feature films.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. Feel like I'm. Yep.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um, And Kevin also just stands in his own skin in a way that,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Kevin occupies his space in the world with, uh,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I don't even know what to call it.
He just occupies his space in such a way that I can't imagine anyone ever trying to be disrespectful or to fuck with him.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I'm always,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I'm always impressed by people who wield. A great amount of power [00:16:00] and, and yet seem egoless.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Like, it was never, it was never about Kevin. And there's a lot of directors, and you know, I don't necessarily criticize them for this, who are like, you know, they got huge egos, and you know it's their show.
Kevin, like,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: he was always very in control, but he never had to put his foot down or anything.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: for
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: didn't have to flex for it. And, you know, there were, there was still drama around him. There were still unruly actors and hard days to make and, you know, unhappy people and he just kinda rolled with it.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I remember having a conversation with Kevin. We were in the lobby of the hotel in Dallas where we were all staying when we first got to town before we, um, before we had found places to stay. And so I think the production had gotten everybody a rate at this one hotel.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I never did that. Okay. Yep.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: have been my first or [00:17:00] second night in town.
And I went down to the lobby. My husband wasn't there yet. I went down to the lobby. And the cast and Kevin and a few people were there and we're like, Oh, let's go to Lobby Bar and have drinks. And I chipped my tooth.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And I was like, and by the way, Kevin has perfect teeth. I mean, perfect teeth. Like, like, crest white strips add perfect teeth.
It was something that I was always just mind blown by. And I asked him, I was like, you're an actor, should I get this chip fixed before we go to camera? And his response, verbatim, I still remembered, he goes, no! It's so real!
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uhhuh.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I was like, is somebody who grew up in Hollywood, who has an appreciation for Real people don't fix chips in their teeth five minutes after they get them. Don't sweat it. And it actually, that [00:18:00] resounded. some part of my deep reptilian brain in that moment was like, that's going to be my niche. That's going to be my niche. Not
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: The Chipped Tooth Girl?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Not,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh, I see what you're saying.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Botox, fake nails. No, like, no fake boobs, like, you know, I mean, look, I color my hair. I'm not trying to say I'm like the world's most natural person, but I just like it for a minute.
I was like, Oh, that's a niche.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's also so rare to hear that from a producing director on network television.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: anyway, it just cracked me up. I loved him. Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh, we have a, I have a good note here that just says Crossfire. And I was like, was there a shootout in this scene? Uh, in this episode? And it's like, no, it's the car that Lincoln and, and where did they buy it? Oh, is it when he says, I guess we're gonna need two cars? That's the last time we saw
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: no, because that was with, um, Sucre. It was, it's, uh,[00:19:00]
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh, you're right.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: car that they were digging in her house. I can't
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's the, it's the Yeah, it's, it's Yes. It's the mommy dearest lady's house. Yeah, car, yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: it's the mommy dearest lady's house and lady's
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh, car.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: um, it is so on Lincoln. I mean, maybe it's just me.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's a Dodge, Dodge Crossfire?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Is it Dodge?
I don't even
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I don't know. You think they still make them? . It's not an, you know, it looks like m like you look at if you, if you squint your eyes, it looks like one of those lame Mercedes that came around outta that time. It was kind of like a Miata Mercedes.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh huh.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Should we do a little
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: it's funny the way Cars, so cars are chosen picture cars meetings by directors and,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: them what a picture car is?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: writers and the picture car is any car that is in the picture.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Hey, there you go.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: see, uh, is chosen. And sometimes if you're doing a period piece, it's a pain in the butt because you're like, Oh, now I got to find 50 cars from [00:20:00] 1942 for this driving through New York. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's interesting because you, I just, I, Dominic Purcell driving a Crossfire
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's funny.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: makes
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: not his car.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: it is in fact a Chrysler,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Is
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: it was manufactured from 2004 to 2008.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: So not a lot of
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Not a lot. Didn't last that long.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: They didn't
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh, Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Fair enough. Um, I have a Halloween story since this episode aired
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I have Halloween stories too.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: 30th. Oh, what's yours?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Nope. You.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: episode aired was Halloween.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Nope. You go. Dallas Halloween. Go ahead.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: So we were living in Little Forest Hills.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yep.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Which is in, uh Did you ever come over to our
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yes.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Okay, so lots of little bungalows, just a
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: of little bungalows, which made it [00:21:00] amazing for trick or treating.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Right.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And, uh, I had had most of the episode off, as you can imagine, because I was only in that one scene.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yep.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: So Josh and I had gone to Canada, came back on, I think it was, uh, Halloween, got a bunch of candy. Um, I'm still like unpacking and there's a knock on the door. You go out, trick or treat, here you go, you give people candy. And then I opened the door and it was the first time someone was dressed as me. Someone had gone as Dr.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Did they know you were there?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Halloween. No, they didn't.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: What?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: me. They didn't recognize me. I'd just come off a plane, like my hair's up and I'm in like sweats and whatever. Um, but it was wild. I opened up the door and there was this girl. And like, it was,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: What, what, what, what indicated it was like a, like, was it like a,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: coat. There was
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: and like,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: and like needles?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: a name tag. she wasn't a junkie, Paul.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I'm just saying. I mean, she's playing a junkie, wasn't actually a junkie. Okay. Yeah, go on.[00:22:00]
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um, yeah, that was really wild. I remember closing the door, and my husband and I look at each other, and we were like, That's a big first! It was wild. It was really wild.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: That is crazy. It's not, it's not nearly as good. I used to, I mean, I still do, but not like I used to love Halloween.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Really, do you dress up?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I did. I mean, you have a child and then it becomes like, it's not about you, like, get over yourself. Like, stop.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Well, but sometimes you
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: it.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: like, our whole family went as Mary
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, yeah, we did, uh,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: a different character.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: did, uh, there was this, um, Oh my gosh. I can't remember what the team show that my daughter was into a cartoon. She must've, she was like seven or eight and we, she, and we all went as one of those characters.
And, and, you know, I had a band that would always play on Halloween. I still go to Chicago sometimes and there's a bunch of bands that play as other bands. I got to be. [00:23:00] The cars, we got to do Billy Joel, like all this fun stuff. But I don't know, I used to really be into the weirdness of Halloween. I think it's part of the actor thing and it's before it became kind of like New Year's or St.
Patrick's day, where it's just an excuse to, um,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: to behave badly.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah, like to put on an Afro wig and get hammered, you know, like, like sexy kitty time.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: you totally,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I was, I had one scene in that thing and we didn't, this is really, there's no story here except that there was no trick or treaters.
I lived in a building with mostly young Dallas professionals, loosely use the term. I think mostly people who got out of college and their parents got them apartments.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um, and, uh, So like, as a kind of a last minute nod to Halloween, [00:24:00] we went out and got these like, you know, they make like a headband with a pumpkin on top.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: a headband with a like a witch's hat. It was like the lamest, like, okay, let's just do this. And we got those, um, and it was kind of funny. And there's pictures of us in, you know, in the apartment and like, I think in a bar, like having a drink and like, you know, it's kind of a lame Halloween. But for some reason, those made it back from Dallas.
And every year, especially once I had a kid and it was like, okay, we're taking the kid out in the straw. Like, I don't have an, I don't have a, Oh, I'll put the, and you just throw the,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Dallas.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: the thing from Dallas. So it's been like
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: fun
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: 19 years. So that's going to be really fun. Crews are great on Halloween.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: are
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I will
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: hair and makeup and wardrobe. Like they go big
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: also tell you. Yeah. And also there, you know, a lot of them are like super skilled at makeup and hair. I [00:25:00] Wardrobes and they have a lot of, um, technical expertise and crafts. Yeah. Halloween's on set can be amazing. Um, there's another Dallas story about Halloween, but it doesn't really have anything to do with anything except it's a crazy, just a crazy story.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I, tell me.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: We can always cut it out, I guess. Um, me and Steve, Steve Walters, who I told you about, who's this great actor, actor, writer. The night before Halloween, uh, we went out for a drink. This kind of goes to the apartment building. I was. And instead of using the elevator, we came in through the back because I think I lived on the second floor, so you could just take the stairs right up.
And we came, uh, Up the stairs. And as we walked into my room or into my front door, we noticed that the carpeting in the hallway was super squishy and wet,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Eww. Oh, that's never a
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: not good. Right. And there was like, you could tell there was like an inch or inch and a half of [00:26:00] water in the hallway. And I lived in a long hallway and I knew one person on my floor.
I don't even remember how we made friends. She lived all the way to the other end of the floor. I will not say her name. And she always, she was, she had to be 25. And I'll just, there was a lot of, a lot of the young Dallas crew, uh, people seemed to just to be a lot of partying, like a lot. Um, I was, I remember being surprised by it.
I'm no, I'm no, uh, you know, prude, but I was like, Oh, these people really day drinking, lots of day drinking, uh, and discussion of guns. And we were like, what is this water coming from? And we slowly. Moved up the hallway and it got apartments on either side, but I was on the very far end. She was on the other far end.
As we got closer and closer, it was getting wetter and wetter and wetter. And we got to her apartment and the door [00:27:00] was unlocked and we went in and it was like five inches of water on the ground, like literally like sloshing through it. And we heard something
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: god.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: went to the bathroom and the toilet was just broken, just broken in half and like water like pouring out and we start like saying her name like, like, like, hello, hello, hello.
And we realized like we go in and she's dead. So drunk and passed out in her bed that clearly she just like drunkenly went to like sit on the toilet and just wrecked it
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: didn't
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: toilet?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: the toilet didn't
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: No, no. You can't do that without a weapon or a tool. Like, you cannot
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: well then she went at it then I don't know then she went after it I don't know it was like off its base you know it was like just
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: What?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah it was it was
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: bodybuilder? Like, I don't know if
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: a toilet off
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: don't think I could kick a toilet off its base[00:28:00]
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: hands and a socket wrench.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, it was impressive
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Wait, sorry. Keep talking. What happens next?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: called the super and I called I knew a friend of hers Who's I didn't even have her number. I don't think but I had her friend's number from some I don't even remember why and We called her and we're like you need to come here and help your friend
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, you gotta clean this mess
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, cuz I like we were like it was like 2 in the morning We're like I mean, as soon as the super got there, we, you know, we, uh, we left, but it was strange.
I'll probably cut this out. I don't, I don't know if it's
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: That's all bananas. Um, Well, I have a slightly only tangentially related
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: too.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: that I made a note of. Do you have anything more, like, germane to the episode?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I do. I have a bunch of things. [00:29:00] Um,
you had a Moab story, but that's not germane to the episode. Uh, hold on. That's great. Just talk about what happens. What is. do to his, to T Bag's hand. He has a pair of scissors.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: it.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: He says, I'm going to take it off stitch by stitch.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. And then he says something about I'm gonna pluck you like a chicken, feels like it's a callback to something. Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: it in a Southern accent. He kind of was like, it is a very T, it is a very T Bag kind of
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Very. Very.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: rhetorical flourish, if you will.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: really interesting to me is what happens right before that scene for Teabag,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, let's talk about that.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: he looks heartbroken. Like, to me, you know, when he, when we see him in the, um, in whatever, the train station or the bus [00:30:00] station, and he's, the money in a locker. And then he stops and gets the longest stemmed sunflowers in cinema history. Um, and we see him swipe a pair of scissors and he says, you know, she says, what brings you to town? He's in a romance. And I, I was like, Oh, he's here to Mrs. Hollander. Like he's here for revenge. That's how it read to me. And then he comes into the house.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And he's devastated.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And it felt like heartbreak.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: that's right. I don't, I think that what they're doing is they're humanizing him. They're giving him an actual heartbreak. Not that like, we feel like I mean, I think everyone is clear why Mrs. Hollander made the decision she did. And everyone's on her side. No, but there is, I mean, and later we will see that he, you know, we get a, we get a view into, into the home life he grew up in.
There is a kind of rounding out of the character.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm hmm.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I mean, [00:31:00] even though you're like, he's obviously delusional, he's obviously psychotic. Um, but it is still humanizing. If you have empathy to, to see that he's disappointed. And he, even though he had 52 letters returned to him, that he's still like, I'm going to go sweep her off her feet.
And it's also interesting, uh, excuse me, that, that, um, there's a, this longing for normalcy,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: the thing that.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: to play house.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: the thing that, and the thing that really seems to cut to the quick with Bellic teasing him is saying, Oh, that's where they may have had dinner
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: and not sure they slept. And here's where the kids are.
And, and it's like, that would be, um, obviously horrible to somebody who wasn't a psychopath and teasing them in their abandoned home where they had had a family teasing them in that way. And with him, there's [00:32:00] the, it's like he's making fun of them. for even thinking he could have a life like that. And that's what seems to cut T Bag so much.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, and I was even wondering Cough. Did Teabag know until he was told that those letters were returned,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: returned to sender? I mean, it, the moment of, like, it's one thing to
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: that's a really good question. I didn't, yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: a letter every two weeks for the whole time I've been in Fox River or whatever the math works out on 52
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I never heard anything, but Returned is a whole different
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: But to find out they've been returned and the guards have been
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh! I know there's
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I don't know. It kind of, like, T Bag is always one step ahead of people, and we all are kind of, you know, part of the fun of the show is like figuring out is those gotcha moments for him. What's interesting to me was to see that he gets so lost in his own [00:33:00] head and heart that Geary and Bellic are able to kind of, who are like not necessarily criminal masterminds, are able to kind of get the jump on him, Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh, that's so painful that like, if you, by stacking up the humiliations, they've caught him. Well, he's been abandoned or in his mind, he's
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: He's been rejected and
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: been rejected and abandoned. Now he's been caught.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yep. Mm
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Now they're making fun of the fact that he thought he could have a normal life. Now they're saying he was doubly rejected and abandoned.
Maybe at a level he didn't even know.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: hmm.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: they were humiliating him about it and had a great laugh. Ah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: time. And then he does the thing that you started this off with that made me scream into my microphone during the rewatch and almost curse Nick Santora because Nick is so good at scenes like this and I find them so devastating to watch. Then they take a pair of scissors.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: She's the scissors. He stole mind you[00:34:00]
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: The scissors he stole. It's awful. And way, I don't know who that was. I don't know if that was a writer thing or director thing, but in my mind, somebody goes, it's too convenient if they moved out and there happens to be a pair of scissors, it's too
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: a hundred percent.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And so someone goes, let's have him steal them when he gets the flower.
Like those little details, like I, I get hung up on them.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Me too,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: in and there
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: especially as a director, especially as a director. Right.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: The scissors that he stole, they're now using to cut the stitches his dead
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um, What I was going to say something else about that, but now that's all I can know. That's it's okay. Oh, I was going to just make a little, uh, acting, uh, side journey into as an actor, you always hope, if you ask when you say, is he, does he [00:35:00] just, is he finding this out now
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: letters are returned?
Like that's, it's always better.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: listener, dear watcher
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: it out in the moment, right? Like it's always an extra, for instance, one of the great ones is in seven at the end when her head is in a box and you think, well, it can't get worse than that. And then John Doe says she begged for her life and the life of her baby.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh, I haven't seen this
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And then he's like, Oh, he didn't know. And like, even the evil of it's the Kevin Spacey, it's what's in the box. What's in the box. And then it's like, and then Morgan Freeman's response to that, who didn't know she was pregnant because she pulled him aside and wanted his advice is he's just like, that's it.
Like, he's like,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Right.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: that's it. Anyway, [00:36:00] it's great. Great piece of we're done. That's a great piece of writing.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Jesus. Um, I tell you my Moab story real
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: we, uh,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: So Moab came up and in this, uh, it just said Moab, uh, Utah. And, uh, and then Sarah said, Ooh, I was haunted there. So I want to know what this story is.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: and was it, I think Moab was where Lincoln and LJ stop at the convenience store and then they get made because,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: little puppy.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: no, because he forgot his change. Right? So he's flirting. The girls walk by. We have that false beat of like, Oh God, I wonder if they'll recognize him. They
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And then, and then it's knock, knock, knock.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And then
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: So many little twists and turns like that.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: It's so good. It's so good. Um. And the other one that I like was, you know, Lincoln's don't turn around, don't turn around, don't turn around. She turns around and you just know it's cool because we've educated the audience at this point. Like is what this means. If somebody turns around, it means the following things.
And so you can skip all the shoe leather to that, which is cool. So this is just a [00:37:00] small thing and it's apropos of nothing, but it did happen to Moab. I went camping there with, uh, my then boyfriend, now husband. Ages ago, we were looking, we were on our way to California to camp the whole coast for the summer. And we're in my, like, ancient Subaru. Um, and we go to Gemini Rock. And beautiful. I'd never been in terrain like that, and I'm not a desert person. We found a place to camp. pull the car up. It's just the middle of nowhere. And you have to jump over, you have to jump to a mesa, over a huge cliff down, to set up the tent. Plenty of room, but you've just, you've got to make the jump, because where the car is,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Okay. Jumping and camping doesn't, that's not, doesn't seem smart, but okay.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: It wasn't super far. We threw the gear, whatever, put rocks in the corners of the, uh, super windy, so we put big rocks in the corners of the tent, [00:38:00] our dinner, had a fire, ooh look, the star is amazing, go to bed, we hear drums.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Drums?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Drums. At the base of the And we're like, weird.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Like,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: No.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: like a dance party? Or like,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: No. No, like a boom, boom, boom, boom.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Okay. Something made of animal skin and,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: In theory,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm hmm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: This sound makes its all the way from the canyon floor, so quickly, sheer canyon, all the way up to the base of our tent, stops. I have stopped breathing. And then it starts again right back where it
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: What the hell?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I mean, thousands of feet down.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Like it's getting, I'm sorry, like it's getting closer and closer?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: like it's starting far away and coming right to the base. of the cliff where our tent is three times [00:39:00] then the wind starts and the wind whipped so hard it lifted our tent. We had rocks this big in every corner, our tent, and were it not for the fact that you had to jump across the thing in the dark, we would have gotten in the car and left. But there's no, like, so many ways to fall to your death.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: just going to be here. And, like, for hours that night. Drumming, tent lifting, wind. Drumming, tent lifting, wind. Didn't sleep a wink. At the first hint of light, we like, packed up our stuff, in the car, sped out of Utah, and I have not been back to the States since.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: It was
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: your husband is, is a very, I mean you're also a very experienced outdoors person. He's a v
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: like
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: He's a very experienced outdoors person. Was he free?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: solo camping in Alaska.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: he freaked out
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: No, a hundred percent, dude, [00:40:00] we were being haunted
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: by,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: no, I don't know. I don't know that I believe in ghosts, that night I believed in ghosts. And if there was another explanation, I really, really am going to go with that explanation.
The one that is not that we were hunted by ghosts. It I don't know that I've ever been that scared in my entire life. And like I said, have not been back to the state of Utah. No plans to go. That's my mob story.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: uh,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I know. Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: gee willikers.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yes.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I want to,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Should we take a quick break and come back and, and, and, and, and crack.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah, and then let's answer a fan question and wrap up. I think what we should do is, uh, talk to Bobby
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Except,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: a separate
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: okay.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: because we've got a lot to say to him. Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: So let's take a quick break. We'll come back with some fan questions.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah. [00:41:00] Okay, now we're back.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Hello.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And we had fan question from last time that we were thinking our way through and something came up in the rewatch.
What big plot changes do you think, um, at Alicia L I S N Y J? What big plot changes do you think would have made to the show if it was filmed in 2025 instead of 2005? We definitely came up with one,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Hey, we sure did.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: LJ
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: First of all, he says, when did you learn about girls? He says, he says, like, I'm surprised that you do. And he's like, isn't he like 20 now?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I mean, he's gotta be, but was he tried as a minor?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. He's, he's supposed to be like 17. I keep getting confused. I
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I know,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: keep forgetting. That's only been three months of story time.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: right, and because Marshall was in his twenties.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Right, right, right. Okay. Anyway, go on. So.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: but the implication becomes, when did you have [00:42:00] sex for the first time?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh huh.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: And LJ talks about his French tutor who was the girl next door.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Who they were paying to teach him French.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yes.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: They, they thought they met the language and not the, the, the ways of the French.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Dear French listeners, je
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I don't think, I don't think the French listeners would be offended by that, but what do I know?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: don't know either, but the whole, but the, the implication, no, what he comes out and says is she was 17. She was four years older than he was. So he was 17. She was 17 and he was 13.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, I gotta say,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: would be different today. I
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: be like statutory rape is such a cool way to
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I don't think, I think that would have changed.
Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah. I think that that would have sent, and you, it was interesting because we were then talking about, um, age of, uh, Is it age of consent? And then you were saying that some states have gap laws, like the [00:43:00] age, the difference between the ages has to be a certain number, which I think is very interesting.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: or if that's provinces,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: folks say here in BC where I live that like, if they're, because sometimes people are like, well, they're both under age, but there's, I think there's
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. But one's
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: that
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: yeah, but one's 11 and one's eight 17. Like it doesn't. Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: it's like, if there's more than, I think it's like a three or four year age gap,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Oh boy.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: it's still considered that they're too young to consent, um, which I'm all for it. I'm all for it. Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. Same.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: sorry, I'm all for, too young to consent,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Agreed.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: super.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I agree.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Um, there's also another one from last week that we didn't get to, and I saw this today when I was getting ready for this, and I thought it was an interesting one. Um, and I'm super sorry, Paul, because this is kind of boring for you.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I'm very interested in this.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: at s. tancredes, how do you think Sarah's relationship [00:44:00] with her father might have progressed had he not been murdered? They finally had a small reconciliation just before he died. And. I kind of wanted to say, like, insofar as this is an episode about and those deep connections, I think part of what is so heartbreaking about the loss of the governor is that they were on their way
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: on the same page for the first time ever in the show. Um, which is kind of a definition of a tragedy. Uh, and in some ways I think feeds into, there are a number of decisions that Sarah makes in upcoming episodes, particularly in the next one in Rendezvous, that are, um, not the decisions of somebody who's super clear headed.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I think losing, um, Yeah, not just losing her father, but losing the potential the healing that might have [00:45:00] been
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: if he
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: her as a liability in a crackpot. Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: thought one of the really nice. It's also John hurts acting. But one of the things is that like he's, you know, a tight ass and a conservative and a law and order guy.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Mm
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: not a monster, you know, you think maybe at first, Oh, this guy's so gross. And then, you know, he's sick of his daughter's behavior.
Maybe I've just become a parent since the show was on, but he's a little like, you know, how many times can I be burned? And now she's got this crazy,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: are hard on their
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: now he's got this whole conspiracy theory. And, but that when he finds, when he gets a whiff that it's, there's something there, he immediately.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: hmm.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: backtracks. He immediately believes her and it gets him, it gets him killed essentially, but it gets his nomination is canceled, right?[00:46:00]
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: It costs
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: It costs him. That's right.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, it costs him something. And I think what is beautiful is that for all the time we've seen him be a politician, in the moment when he sees Kellerman in that building and realizes something fishy is going on, we almost never see him be a father, be anything but a
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. You see him really be concerned for her and not just concerned for what that means from an espionage or political standpoint.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: right. It's less, how's this going to affect
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. Oh, she's in danger. Yeah. She's in danger. Yeah. It's great. Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: a beautiful thing to see,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: And, of course, horribly, always a great piece of writing when you redeem somebody right before you kill them.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, absolutely. Um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: back to exactly what you said, because, oh, there was really going to be a reconciliation here. And it's clearly one of the things that's been [00:47:00] so,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: hmm.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: um, sad for Sarah in her life and now that potential for that is gone.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah. And I think it goes away, goes away as to explaining some of the decisions that she makes that are reckless, uh, going forward. All right, shall we wrap it up?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, man. A great episode.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: changes to your answer of, uh, where you'd go? you were running today, would you go to any place different?
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: No, still the Caribbean or
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Fair.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I just,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: once that if you can, um, squat undetected in a castle in Scotland
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: that's worth it. It seems cold.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: then they give it to you.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: That's not true.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah, I think
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: That's not
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: dude. You've been to Scotland? There's so many abandoned
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: really.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: I mean, somebody told me that when I was there, and that was
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Was it somebody with a very heavy Scottish accent kind of making fun of the American person?[00:48:00]
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Everybody
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: can't do a Scottish accent, but was it somebody back? Oh yeah. There's abandoned castles everywhere. Just go live in one.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: William Wallace.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I can't even do that.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Fair enough.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: I need to work on that. I should be able to do that.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Scotland is free. Yeah, it's terrible. Um, we've already established from our, uh, fan fiction that I can't do accents,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: You do a good Canadian accent. He says,
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: guys,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: we are.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: um,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: listening.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Super, super, super grateful.
Um, thanks to everybody. I hear the discord, um, community on the Patreon
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Blowing up.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: is like becoming a really beautiful, uh, community. So thank you to everybody who's chosen to be in community with other people there. Um, and thank you sincerely for keeping it loving and supportive.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: been so moved by the way fans of the show, uh, can take care of each
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: awesome. Um, So yeah, you can, uh, you can join the, you can watch the watch parties, um, if you [00:49:00] join the Patreon community and
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: you join the patreon community? Sarah?
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: oh, just from the link in the bio of the show, wherever you're listening
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Go back even on even on the older old episodes where we weren't doing.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: can translate the show into whatever language you would like to watch it in.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Video. Those are still on YouTube and you can still go, uh, listen to them, read them in whatever language you choose.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: If right now you're trying to learn Tagalog as a native English speaker, you could listen to our episode
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: To, to Galog is the language of some
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Philippines.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Philippines. Sure.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yeah,
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: right. That's going to say that
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: sister in law's
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Philippines
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Yep. okay.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: hit it. Prison breaking with Sarah and Paul is a caliber studio production.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: Your hosts have been inmates Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Prison warden is producer Ben Haber.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: The frontman of our jailhouse rock band is Paul Edelstein and he made all our [00:50:00] music! Woo! He's gonna play some for us right now.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Uh, our prison yard. Tattoo two artists, logo and brand designers. John Nunzio at Little Big Brands. Check them out at www little big brands.com
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: You can follow us on Instagram or YouTube at Prison Break Podcast, or you can email us, pbpodcast at caliber studio. com, or you can call us at 401 3 P BREAK.
paul-host799_3_02-07-2025_120847: Prison. Breaking with Sarah Paul has been at Studio Productions. Thanks for listening.
swc-guest85_3_02-07-2025_120847: There we go. Bye, guys.
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