All right, Sean Bailey with Smokies, thanks for coming in today. I'm glad you're here today because we have a lot to cover. You and I were just catching up on things that you've done and currently you're at Smokies and tell me what Smokies is. Yeah, Smokies is an Edibles brand so I'm here, "I'm a part of the cannabis industry here in Missouri." Pretty much what we do is we do cannabis sales, but we're gummy specific. So we have a whole bunch of different SKUs for anyone who's not familiar with edibles. Edibles is our game. We got all kinds of different bags. - You're talking to someone who has no idea really what you're talking about. - Of course. - So edibles, what are we talking about? - For sure, so most people are gonna understand the old fashioned way, you get some buds, you get some flour, you roll up a little joint, you're smoking a doobie. What we've been able to do is then people, they started getting into making brownies and making cookies and there's a different way of pulling the THC out of the flour itself and putting it into an edible so that you can You're going to digest it a different way. You're going to still get the psychoactive effects or the high that you would get from smoking. Most of the time with edibles, it's going to be a little bit longer. So there's pros and cons. Just like a quick, easy, fast way. We're using different solvents to extract that THC out of the flour itself. So you guys are making this stuff? Oh, yeah. We've got a huge kitchen. Oh, really? Yeah, we've got a massive kitchen. So you're like a confectionary of sorts. - Yeah, man, you know, it's come a long way, which I've been really stoked about. I've smoked for a long period of time. - Total pro. - Yeah. I wouldn't consider myself a pro, but I'm very knowledgeable. There's guys above me that would definitely probably say otherwise. - Step on any toes. - Exactly, I've learned my lesson. - Understood. - But yeah, man, it's been really fun. I don't want to say it kind of dropped in my lap, but honestly, it really did. You know it's the hands you shake especially here in Missouri, so I was lucky enough to be brought on to this amazing team Which is Smokey's edibles? Yeah, and it's been going phenomenal. I mean When did you guys start when you guys go to market with it? Yeah, so technically the company has been around since 2010 It's a family -owned company. They're called the rights father and son duo and these guys have just been they opened up a company in 2010 doing a dispensary. And since then it's blown up. So we're in 23 states across the country, we're a huge MSO, and we launched in Missouri about four years ago. So right before Wreck, a little more than four years ago, right before Wreck is when I got brought on. - What's Wreck? - So we have recreational and we have medical. Recreational is just Joe Schmoe, you got a state ID, you You can come in and buy products going to an Almond's concert tonight. I need to whatever there you go Exactly. Um, and then you have the medical side, which was first we had medical first you got to have a medical card to be able to come into the dispensary and And then you can purchase cannabis. So in February, how like fuzzy was that whole medical card bit? Like I feel like I'd see somebody and they like has got a medical card and look I know that, you know, with my wife's stuff like MS, there's, you know, cannabis world is finding me no medicinal applications for it. So there, there are tons of real reasons you would real, but like there are people like I got my medical card and I'm like, really? What's wrong with you? And for sure. I have a medical card. Okay. I'm glad you're doing better. Thank you. - Completely gone. - That's wonderful, that's good. - No, I mean, you can look at it from different ways, so pretty much the process is real easy. You can go in, you talk to your doctor, I mean, you got anxiety, you've got any spinal issues, you got back pain, you know, there's a bunch of things that ebbs can help you out with, but it started out really trying to focus on those holistic people, the people who can't sleep, the people who have, you know, we have products that help with IBS, they help mitigate IBS and Crohn's. Cannabis has been found to help with this earble bowel. Yes, sir. All right. Yep So the medical patients were originally the first ones we allocated those medical patients to be able to come in Get the cannabis that they need the products So if I let me ask so and so everyone listening understands Sean is not an MD. He's not like so no I am not a doctor. I'm not preaching anything. Yeah, so I just want to make So in case you didn't get a chance to say it No, thank you, you know Sean isn't telling anyone how you know prescribe anything. These are just this is I'm giving Recommendations based on what you relate to me sure so based on that though. I just want to make sure that anyone no one thought you're prescribing the When you guys are saying hey somebody's like I have IBS or whatever it is - Are you treating, I mean, I'll use the word treating in this context, the, what's actually, like does IBS go away or they somehow just sort of, or let's take back pain, different thing, or like a neural pain or something like that. Does it actually help with like inflammation or like you're actually treating the cause of something or Is it just sort of the recreational effects of it? Just sort of make it bearable? Yeah, or both so a hundred percent There will be studies that say it's curing certain things For the most part what I see is that's why when I talk about IBS or Crohn's I use the it helps mitigate symptoms So kind of like this might be a horrible Comparison but kind of like nicotine. There's been, you have nicotinic receptors in your body, it's throughout your entire body, so that you can sit there and you can say, hey, if I'm smoking a cigarette and I'm trying to retain something or write down, it's why you see a lot of people in college with whether they're dipping or smoking cigs, stuff like that, it helps your, it does help memory, it helps a lot of, now it's also gonna kill you at the same time. So I like to refer to that as different, now it's gonna kill you not because of the nicotine, but of all the carcinogenics and everything that's going to go along with it. Along with smoke, like I tell everybody, just like we were talking about earlier, you eat 10 ,000 bananas a day, you're going to be feeling, you're going to have potassium overload, you're not going to be feeling too good. If you ate 1 ,000 gummies a day, you can't OD on cannabis, but you're not going to feel well. I mean, they call it greening out if you eat too much. And what, so I've, like we talked earlier, I have, you know, I went to college and drank my fair share of beers and so forth but never was you know smoke pot or anything like that so what is if somebody just ate like an insane amount of gummies like what are they looking at like yeah is that like a throw -up situation or is it can be yeah if especially if you're eating gummies I mean even people who have smoked you know they've got different ways of consuming you have concentrate you have a plethora of stuff some things that are not gonna mean anything to you, but basically it would be like the difference between drinking a beer, drinking a whiskey, and then you're drinking moonshine. It's super concentrated. - Yeah, okay, the density. - So that's how you can play off. We go off of percentages. You're allowed to stay in a certain allotment of that percentage based on different factors, but let's say you were gonna eat a ton of gummies and you got way too high, you would feel kind of this, I mean, when it's, I've done it, I've, and it's not fun. It's, and I have this conversation with a lot of people. You're like, I won out. I won out. For sure. And there's things like that where you kind of just got to ride it out, you know, but one thing that we can help to do that is we have, especially in our gummies, we have something called, it's a homogenized process. Okay. So all the distillate or the rosin Or whatever we're using to put in the gummies is evenly distributed throughout the gummy itself So this is not only going to allow these customers to Microdose our products But it's allowing if they want to buy bigger bang for their buck They can cut these in half and it's not like your buddy gives you a cookie and you only get one You know one guy gets a hundred milligrams and one guy gets okay So it's like you guys are making sure the same number of chocolate chips or a hundred percent - Am I with you? - Yes sir, yes sir. - All right, so you can buy like a loaf of gummy and like slice off a piece. - Yeah. - And it's gonna have the same, you know-- - Based on the dosage. - Within a tolerance of whatever you guys are-- - For sure, a small percentage, uh -huh, yep. - Okay, so that's probably not a standardized process. I mean, Smokies does it, but is that something that is standard in the industry that someone's gonna have something homogenized? Or like, You just got a really bad end of the loaf and this guy's got soaring, you know at this point It should be standard for most companies now I can't talk to anybody else's process I don't dive too deep into everyone else's stuff But like we have some competitors who I would totally if I was in a store and they didn't have any of our stuff My job is to get the customer right so I can point them in another direction I'm not going to give them a whole spiel on that product even though I might be able to So because I want them to come back and buy mine. But they know, hey, I'm going to give you all the information on ours. This is going to do very similar, might not be as good as Smokey's, but it's going to get you where you need to be. - It's going to get you through the night. - It's going to get you through the night. - Or whatever, whatever, whatever it is. - The concert, the night, if you're just high and I have a day, you know, there's a-- - The sobriety's ailing me. - Yeah, well, you know, by the end of this, by the end of this, we'll see what happens. I already know the answer but you know I'll press you for it anyway. Well I might well to that end so with with pot in cannabis and we have dispensaries and you know I'm pretty late on all this stuff but what so tell me what is a dispensary? Yeah so it's basically a building um you need a certain license to be able to since it is federally let regulated you need a license to be able to open a certain dispensary. There's only so many licenses that go about in certain states. So a dispensary is basically a license holder. They've got this dispensary, they're going to be selling, well, we have two different things. We have vertical companies. And then we have kind of almost, I call them like a third party company, but people who take everything and people who actually grow their own products and they are able to have, they have a kitchen where they have a whole grow room, they have a certain square footage of plants that they're harvesting based on harvest days, and then they're taking that and they might be making their own edibles with that flower. They're making their own pre -rolls, they're selling A's, they're doing stuff like that. They will carry guys as well, like us. We'll come in and we'll be on the shelves 100%. And we have a pretty loyal customer base, so I like to be able to provide our customers with that product. And if they go into a store that only sells their product. They probably have an amazing product, but that customer wants a little smoky, so we're able to provide for them. And then you got people who just carry everyone. So you walk into a dispensary-- - So is a dispensary like a license to sell to the public? - Yes, 100%. - Okay, so it's kind of like a beer distributor. It's a retail though, it's a retail location. - It is, so if you were to walk into, and I'm to make some horrible comparisons about this but if you were into walking to like what's that crazy one they used to always advertise with big chicken the the liquor liquor store dirt cheap dirt cheap yeah I'm walking to dirt cheap if dirt cheap has their own specific brand that they are distilling their beer doing whatever and they're selling it at dirt cheap it'd be a vertical company they're gonna sell everybody else - they're gonna sell Bushlight they're gonna sell Maddie they're gonna sell you know Maybe they have a craft beer that's on maybe they're selling four hands. Yeah, four hands If four hands was a franchise and was like all around the country would be like smokies, you know You're selling it in there. I understand and so you guys are that vertically integrated where you're going from like Putting seeds in the ground kind of thing. We are not okay So we're a third party so we partner with different companies in different states and then we use We call it biomass, but we use the plants and the leftover stuff to be able to put into the gummies. So they'll sell that, we'll buy oil from these companies 'cause they'll have a surplus of it. - So you're buying like semi -finished products or I mean, ingredients to it? - Ingredients, 100%, I would put it more as an ingredient. - Okay, I understand, I'm getting with it now. - Hey, I got you. - It's coming together. - I got you here. - Okay, so tell me, so your job, you're in sales at Smokies and so tell me what types of are you selling to people are you I mean are you like an outside sales guy out meeting are you at a shop are you like what's your day it's pretty crazy it's it's everything so it's day to day I do some of the sales I do some of the marketing I do a lot of the brand ambassador stuff as well we just hired a new guy's names willies phenomenal But my day to day, we have office days where it's just back to back to back meetings. I mean, we're talking to dispensaries, we're setting up promotions, we're trying to push new products, get people different, maybe we have something new that came out, we're trying to feed it into them. So on a Tuesday, it's basically just meetings. Down the line, whether it's meetings with my VP or my director who also lives here, that is a work from home. So I just, I'm on the computer, I'm making calls, trying to get a vibe of what we're going. I'm setting up meetings, I'm setting up pop -ups, and then the rest of the week, I'm on the road. Tomorrow, I'm going to Jeff City to spend, we do things called pop -ups, or I'll spend a couple hours in a store. We'll run a promotion, customers come in. It's like the wine guy that you see at Chinooks that's kind of pushing wine. It's a little more fun because you're in a dispensary, people are coming for bud. So it's not like they're buying eggs and you're trying to push wine onto them. So it's kind of nice to be able to highlight some of that. - So you're basically setting up in someone else's dispensary? - Yeah. - Okay, and you've got, you kind of your menu of things there. - I got all kinds of stuff. Yeah, I got a table, I've got a list of all the products. One thing that we do that's really cool that sets us apart is we have individually, and I should have or brought 'em today 'cause you could've eaten 'em. We have individually wrapped candies. They're non -medicated, so they have nothing in 'em. It's literally just the gummy, what it tastes, the texture. So we were a candy company for 90 years before we started making edibles, so that was kind of, that was when we make a damn good candy. - That's the piece right there. - Let's get some gummies. - 'Cause that's the other question is, you know, gummies, they're good ones and bad ones. - 100%. - I mean, set the pot to the side, like, I've had a bad gummy bear before, and I've had really good ones. - It's the worst. - What's the gummy bear, what's the name of it? - The Hasbro? - Yes, yeah, they're not fucking around. - Yeah, they're gangster. - They're really good. And do people, can that be used in this process? Like if you're not as sophisticated as Smokies, are there people who can kind of retool a will gummy bear and make or is that just impossible you could they've got a couple brands out right now that resemble some candies that you might see out and about but there was actually Missouri this brings up a good point there is a new we had a packaging law change so we're always jumping through hoops different stuff yeah basically they don't want anything advertised to children I'm for it I don't think kids should be advertised for children too but also Also, you know, it's kind of on the parents, put your stuff away. Don't leave out this nice looking 1000 milligram gummy for your kid to enjoy on the kitchen table. So they had a packaging law where they basically said all fruits, foods, things like that. There was a brand that had some very similar, man, they were awesome. It was a Red Hot Riplets. Each chip was like five milligrams. So you can't do anything like that anymore. So technically somebody couldn't take like, if it looked like a Hasbro gummy bear, They wouldn't be able to use that mold. It would just be a little hitting too close to home for them. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense that you shouldn't be able to mistake one for the other, per se. You shouldn't, 100%. And yeah, but to your point, there is some onus on parents to keep this shit together. I think there's some other things that we could relate to that. That would be the same deal, you know, advertising towards children. But yeah, I mean, it's all labeled. It's got a big says marijuana all the way down the side. Each gummy is stamped with a THC logo. We even change shapes. I was wondering if I were to look at one, I mean, I don't know what every gummy bear in the world looks like. So are they somehow embossed or are there? Yeah, so ours are about the size of a big quarter. They have a stamp in each one. It'll be a triangle and have THC written on the top. - Okay, and is that mandated? Or is that just something you guys have decided to do? - We've decided to do it with our gummy. Now the packaging is mandated, but there's some gummies where they're not stamped, but the packaging is lit up. We do it, so actually we do a whole CBD, CBG, CBN line, which may not mean much to you. - Almost nothing. - You might have heard of CBD before. - Yeah, I've heard of that. - Most people - I've heard of CBD, but these are cannabinoids. It's just another part of the plant. If you were to intake CBD on its own, you have CBD flower too. It wouldn't give you the psychoactive high that you would get from hitting a doobie, right? It's gonna have holistic factors. I'm a big fan of CBD, CBG. CBG is the big one that we were talking about. - Okay. - IBS and crowns. CBN is the most sedative cannabinoid, so we use that for sleep. People who take that, you won't get high. It's not like melatonin but like similar in the fact where if you take melatonin you wouldn't you wouldn't be seeing Jesus, you know, right? Yeah So we're able to filter all those different things in but where I was going with that is the CBD is gonna be square as the THC Gummies even if it has CBD and THC will always be circles So then you have another way to differentiate that that makes you don't mess up you're eating the CBD going into a work meeting You're not eating a thousand milligram. Well, it's it's helpful. I mean if you know that if you know how that all that works And if you had a gummy bear you were intending to eat a regular gummy bear and I had these weird stamps in it You didn't have you probably wouldn't have to know what that means like this probably isn't there's something going on with that Maybe something going on for sure. So switching gears. So that's where you are today And that's real I could probably talk to you that for like a really long time, but yes But that's kind of where we are so let's let's peel it back a little bit about how we got here too and you said it kind of fell in your lap but let's let's take you back you mentioned earlier and kind of pull you through this story to where we got to today which is you start you know you've got high school you've got Boy Scouts, Knowles, you're living off -grid, Chile, just kind of take me through these interesting gates that you've been going through Yeah, I've uh, I've been blessed to have a father who was really hard -core on outdoors We grew up hunting stuff like that, but I grew up in st. Louis. I'm also from here. I grew up in Webster Groves I went to Webster Groves high school During that time I did spend my dad got me involved with the Boy Scouts grew up camping with him That was kind of the next lane. He did Boy Scouts. He was an Eagle Scout He wanted me to be involved of a younger brother as well. He was in it for a little bit. He didn't like it. He got out, he hit high school, he was done. But I wanted to stick it through. So that was about seven years of my life with the Scouts before we got out of there. And Scouts was great. It was kind of where I think is the cornerstone of my love for the outdoors. They teach you how to camp and you go to summer camp and you do your merit badges. And I know some people give scouts a bad rap for weird reasons that I never ran into. - I don't really get a bad rap. I think some people are like, that's just kind of weird. You know, but I don't fall in that camp. I totally get it. - Yeah. - But maybe because I like doing that sort of stuff, but I think that it was more like, people don't do it, literally don't get it. - I would have to agree with you on that. - They think it's just like the get along gang and you're not doing anything interesting in here but you it's it's not that no not at all and if anything I was blessed that the troop I was in I was in troop 21 which legendary 20 pretty cool yeah it was legendary all right and we had some really good guys was based out of Clayton but we had some other doctors and we had people supporting the troop but we had a we had a little money and we were able to go do We went to Costa Rica. We would go to Colorado. We would go, you know, people did Fillmont. I didn't do Fillmont We'll just I got I got my Fillmont's worth in They they go backpacking pretty much it's like a hardcore Few weeks. I never did it so I can't touch too much on it But it was like the crescendo of your Boy Scout, but before getting an eagle It's you go to Fillmont you do you put all your skills to the test kind of deal. - Okay, yeah. - Phenomenal, everybody who did film on, awesome. Kind of wish I would have done it. - Where is that? - I don't even remember. - Somewhere else. - Somewhere else, somewhere, somewhere hardcore. They're hiking around. - I get it. - But yeah, so seven years of my life, and I'll tell you what, it's really funny. So in the Boy Scouts, to get your Eagle Scout, you cannot get it after you turn 18. Hard stop, it doesn't matter if it's 30 seconds after your birthday, you're done. Yeah, you're done. So Going into high school Some people get it earlier me. I Went into high school started playing lacrosse had a girlfriend like didn't really I Didn't want to put on the Boy Scout outfit and go and do all this stuff. You went to the dark side I did I sure did and um got in had new friends and we were having a blast But I still I had two good buddies who to this day are also Eagle scouts and they we kind of formed that bond and were able to finish off. And I actually got my Eagle scout signed off my board of review. You can get the badge after, but you have to get your board of review done beforehand. I got it the day before I turned 18 and he was going through the folder. I was at this guy's house and I was like, he's looking. You have to have a certain number of merit badges. You have to have all your credentials in line and he goes, dude, I can't find your first, your first aid merit badge. I was like, I definitely, 100%. - We're not doing this right now, are we? - Exactly, I said, give me that folder. I went through it, I pulled it out, I gave him a little wink and he signed me off and we were good to go, but I was low key like, man, you almost kind of screwed me with this. But we did, I did end up finishing with the scouts and never looked back and It's really, I'll tell you what, anybody who talks trash on Boy Scouts, you put that Eagle Scout on a resume or a college, you know, trying to get into school. - It still means something. - People, yeah, I got Obama's signature on my card, so it's a, and it's kind of a fun fact. It's like 1 % of the Scouts make it to the Eagle Scout, and then it's the only civilian medal that you can wear on a military uniform. I'm not Military by any means I don't claim that I love all our troops and soldiers, but yeah, it's pretty cool That is that's cool because it's such a it's such a good. I Don't know. I guess it's an institution to a degree that That is just still here and still people. I don't know why it still carries Wait with it Because there's so much cool stuff now like when that started there weren't a lot of things like that, you know, but it still is, you know, maybe it's 'cause somebody stuck with something until they're 18, and you're just kind of like, they had to do some shit to make that happen. - It's kind of the idea behind it. Also, you get the opportunity if you weren't, you know, I played sports, but if you weren't a sports person, now you have this sense of bonding with similar, and not just a team, but like -minded men or young men, like -minded young men individuals and you have these responsibilities of like you have to hold us you have to hold a position of leadership you know whether you're a senior whether you're in charge of these 10 year olds or 13 year olds 15 you know they're crazy whatever you're 17 18 yeah but it gave you the opportunity to test out leadership skills and build camaraderie with your buddies and I think that's huge and to do it in the woods where you're building fires and making knives and doing stuff like that it's cooler than make it I'm gonna get why it hard stop at 18 you know you do need sort of like hey you can't be rounding this out when you're 45 but yeah but it does keep you on pace like that's the goal you know it keeps it gets you through it so both point is back to kind of the main thread here. And so your high school, you get your Eagles, you become an Eagle Scout on the one yard line, right? And nearly was a bust, but we made it. We made it. And so take me from there. Yeah, so after that, you know, the next step is we got to start applying to colleges. At the time, yeah, at the time, all my buddies were going to Mizzou, or going to Ole Miss or going to Arkansas. And for some reason, I was like, "I don't want to go to Mizzio, I'm too good for Mizzio." I had this weird, I wanted to go away. Like I'd been home for forever, I just wanted to go away. - That's all right. - So my cousin was going to the College of Charleston in South Carolina. - Yeah, it's a good spot. - Yeah, so for whatever reason, he was talking it up to me one night on a Thanksgiving and hi just was like, I wanna go there. And we went and visited and it was beautiful and they got the moss and he was on the boat and just all kinds of fun stuff going on there. He was a marine biologist, so he was big fisherman. - Yeah. - I saw the pictures and I'm like, dude, I wanna do that. So I applied, I did not get in. It was the only place I applied to. Big mistake, anyone out there listening that-- - Get your plan big. - Yeah, yeah, figure it out. So after that, I was very upset about that. I was just like, man, I'm gonna go to STLCC or UMSL or something, which I ended up going to UMSL for a little bit, phenomenal schools. But I found this NOLS program as just kind of on a whim. - What is, what's NOLS? - So NOLS stands for-- - Yeah, what's it stand for? It stands for National Outdoor Leadership School. They are accredited around the world. You can get college credit. It's the only way I got my dad to pay for it to get me to go to school. - Right, yeah. - It's through the University of Utah. They have courses in New Zealand. They have courses in Nepal. They have courses across the globe. And basically the gist of what Knowles is. - Yeah, well let's jump into that in a second. - Okay, yeah. - Because, okay, so College of Charleston didn't work out. They didn't know, the admissions office was they didn't know what they're doing and they didn't let you in and so you were like okay plan B and so you find out how'd you find out about Knowles? Is this something you'd already known about? I had heard about it in the past from an older buddy who was in the Scouts who had gone off and done this. Okay. And he had ended up becoming a guide for a company that I can't remember somewhere in Colorado. I think he did river rafting or something like that. So - This is already Boy Scouts paying you back. - Exactly, exactly. Not literally, not in dollars, but they paid us back for sure. - Well, no meaning, like just the network that you created over time is already helping you create a future. - For sure, and networking is huge, and we're blessed to be in St. Louis where everyone's very tight -knit. Don't burning new bridges, they're gonna remember you. - Yes they will. - But yeah, this guy, I met him in the scouts, he went off, he did this, and I had seen some pictures, and I did a little research and said, man, that's something that I can see myself doing, now I gotta literally pitch it to my father to get him to pay pretty much a semester of college. - For sales job. - To just send me away. Oh, so so yeah, it took a little talking to but he's an outdoorsman and he loves it And he saw the benefit with had me heard of it He had not heard of it before so we had to go through the site and bring it up I almost just called my buddy and was gonna say hey, dude. My dad's gonna call you I don't know what you got to say to him, but you need to lay it all out Yeah, don't tell him you're out there smoking pot on on a mountain for six months, you know, which is cool because we were sober the whole entire time. It was kind of a strict part, which I love. It was beautiful. But yeah, so convinced him to send me up and that set me up to get ready to take off on an adventure that I'd never prepared for. So okay, so let's do jump in to and for anyone that's listening, I conflated Knowles and outward bound in my head because I'd experienced I hadn't gone to either of them But in those years, which are starting to be many years ago like 30 years, you know 25 years I had people I knew that either went to Knowles or they went to outward bound And I was sort of conflating those in my head because just on one hand there there are some similarities and that they are outdoors and and it's they are ultimately probably trying to teach relatively similar things but one might find themselves at one program for very different reasons. So I just want to make that clear that if anyone's listening they're okay outward bound and nulls are not they're not related correct. They're not. Okay right so anyway so - So you get your dad to sign off on this. And was he, was it with a smile, or is it like fuck, we'll give it a world kind of thing? - He's an out -deversman. - Okay. - He was with a smile. - He got it. - He's, I was very luck, my dad's always been very supportive of me and my siblings and what we wanna do. And he saw the benefit of it just as much as I did. So we were able to, now my mom took a little convincing too. She had to, there was part of it where you had to sign a waiver saying if anything happens to your son, like we're not, you know, to an extent, we're not, it's not our fault that we're going into some crazy spots where you need a GPS phone and you might not hear from him for a month and you're just gonna have to be okay with that. And she's like, first born child disappearing for a month in the mountains of Chile. I don't know about this one. - Probably good for all parties involved. And it kind of helps as a parent myself, I think sort of an abrupt thing like that would help sort of when you think about your kids going to college or wherever they go. You're like, well, that's going to take a minute to adjust. So it's kind of had this forced adjustment. So anyway, you get signed off on. You get your mom, your dad, come around on this. And it sounds like they're all these different locations where you can go spend this time. And so is that a selection you make, or is that an appointment they make? - No, you definitely get to choose it. And I chose this one because it was the longest. It was the longest one they had, and the most extensive, it covered everything. - Okay, and what'd you choose? - It's called the Patagonia Year Semester. They call it a year semester. It's over the base of a year, split up into two semesters. You do get a holiday break. I came back home for a week for Christmas, which was real. Everybody came back from college, I'm coming back from But yeah, yeah, you you can pick like one was three weeks in New Zealand or a month in Panama or wherever the sailing that you brought up earlier before we started and There were a few guys that had done a couple other Knowles courses, so they kind of knew what they were getting into What was interesting is the age limit you had to be 18, but it was all the way up to like 26 27 So I went in at 19 just let's do this. I'd been blessed. I've been out of the country a few times. So I wasn't too worried about that. But but yeah, no, but convincing my dad and my mom was the first first. So let's drill down for a second. So it's the Patagonia year. Basically. So tell us where is Patagonia? And then I want to zoom in even further after that. But where's Patagonia? And when you when you arrive there, what are Initial thoughts on your decision. Yeah, so It's actually funny you asked that because that's where my mind kind of went You know, I got on a plane and took off. I always tell I was sitting in the airport. I flew into I believe it was my Ami take Miami Miami's that big you Nightmare of an airport and I'd never been in an airport like that. I thought I was going to Argentina I had no I was going to Chile, I didn't know. There's Patagonia, technically part of Argentina and part of Chile, the southern region of South America. It's gonna be the southern part of the Andes Mountains. They call it the Isen region. - It's like Tahoe, you know, a little bit California, a little bit Nevada. - Exactly, 100%. Beautiful place. But I get off the plane and we landed in, I'm trying to remember the town. It was Santiago in Chile, and then you, or Santiago in-- - Argentina. Yeah, Argentina and then you fly to Coyeque, which is the small rural town down in I'm kind of playing yeah, yeah when you when you land down the first one was really big really nice The second one was just I don't know planes smaller smaller plane not like wearing earplugs kind of deal But um, yeah, I have no idea what type of plane smaller than like a commercial Airline, but what was bigger bigger than like a Cessna. Yes, 100%. Yeah, there were like 30 people on the plane for sure, 30 -40. But yeah, I landed and I just immediately realized that I should have listened more in Spanish class because I had my little dictionary and that was it. Yeah, so he had like photos in one hand and your dictionary in the other. Like a lot of hand So you're like looking out the window and being I should come in and you're like What the fuck am I doing? Are you like yes? Let's go. I was very excited But I also and this happened multiple times throughout my time there of us just looking each other like we're fucking paying for this like this is gnarly Like the best racket going exactly. Yeah, they've just dropped you in the woods. I mean, We're doing all kinds of stuff. It's like, okay, we'll figure it out. I guess but no we landed and immediately You like quick time out. Did you know? Like the program like are they just like hey, you're going to Chile did they say like you'll but you'll be you know Month one we're doing this month, too. Yes, you get on the ground. I grabbed those sacks of grain No, that might be more outward bound. Okay, they gave us a whole list of So also if I make jokes about our bound our bounce phenomenal, it's just it's internal Yeah, it's probably internal joking, but uh, yeah They probably say stuff too, but uh, yes So we know they they plan it all out So they say you're gonna be doing mountaineering you're gonna be doing sea kayaking you do rock climbing you have a cultural section You have a give -back section like build porta -potties and stuff like that So they lay it all out for you You have an extensive Gear list which added on some extra money that they were like oh my god this is really racking up and Actually, it was funny. I went and bought all of it from the Alpine shop in Kirkwood Yeah, a little plug for Alpine shop great place. I ended up working for them a few years after I'm like damn. I could really use that discount a few years ago Yeah, you could have bought a ton of gear But the gears really nice it lasted forever. So anyway, we had bags we had everything So you can spot the kids going to Knowles in the airport 'cause they're decked out, they look like they're American, you know. - Oh, well, once you're in Chile, you're like, yeah. - Yes, yeah. I found one guy who had a big old Osprey backpack on and I was like, you gotta be a Knowles guy. His name was Tommy, he was from Montana. Still talk to the guy today. He lives in Chicago now. - That's fabulous. - Amazing dude. I'm connected to a lot of these Yeah, but uh, yeah, and he goes a few of the fellows are down here We're waiting on our last flight to get us into Koyake. They're all drinking beer and most of them were 19 to 21 We had two guys that were 26 and 27. So, uh, and this was like their 10th trip Yeah, this is yeah, they're coming on 30 and they're they're convincing their parents still they're going the now What most of those guys had paid for it So if one other guy had done something in New Zealand, I think it was a sailing, and he loved it, and he was preaching about it the whole time. He didn't even know what he was getting into. - He didn't. - No, it was, it was-- - It wasn't sailing. - No, it was not sailing, I'll tell you that. - No, it wasn't the main sheet. - Yeah, got it. - So you guys are laying it on the ground there, and you guys are circling up through, you know, and sort of, you know, not day by give us the gist of kind of what what is Knowles about I mean it's it's more than just hey we're gonna go hang out in the woods or on a sailboat there's there's a curriculum there of what they're trying to impart upon the people who go there there is literally a curriculum you know throughout your time there they are teaching you not only leadership skills but they're teaching you you know we had a biology class we're learning about local flora and animals and Bugs and fish and stuff like that. So they they give you different courses, which are filling into that curriculum So you can get those credits through the University of Utah that would then transfer over and that was my plug to my dad Mm -hmm, but the main goal of it is to train you to not only be confident in a wilderness situation But to also develop leadership skills that you can take back into the real world So that comes with team building, that comes with forming, norming, and storm, you know, how to work with a team. You're not always gonna get along, how to mitigate some of those issues you might have. And then on top of that, we do wilderness rescue, how to help someone if they're in a dire situation. We're not EMTs, but if someone breaks their leg, you can do your best. - The stairs of mercy kill. - Yeah, yeah, - You get the big rock and you do your best to get them out of there. And then on top of that, of course, the main goal is to develop, like I said, confidence in the back country, not just like, you know, pull up a car and drop it down in Glacier Basin in Colorado. Have a good time, but like, hey, we're gonna, you gotta go out, set up your tent, know how to cook, know how to plan for that, know how to read a map, know how to orient a map, blah, blah, blah. I mean, a plethora of different outdoor skills. But they base it around leadership. You know, we would have different days where you, you were in charge. And the instructor was there, but they didn't say a word. And if you fucked up, you got to figure it out. And we paid for it a couple of times. But those are some of the moments that I really took from that being like, shit, they didn't just tell you to be a leader. They forced you into either sink or swim. - When your team's staring at you. - Yeah, yeah, they're like, what do we do? Go to that mountain over there, ow, I'm lost, you know? - That way, fish. - People get upset and you gotta work, how do you communicate with someone who is pissed off and how do you bring everyone down to a lower tempo and not be like, motherfucker, You took us the wrong way and how to also take accountability for the mistakes that you make. I think that's a really big one that myself needed to learn and a few of these other guys needed to learn. Yeah, so there was - Well, that's, we all at one time or another, you know, that's something that I think everybody who I think has, you know, anything more than kind of baseline ambition do things has also the an Achilles of wanting to be right to a degree and whether we're five or 25 at some point you you got to be like well I guess I can do your own fuck yeah right well there's that so I'm gonna do what I can to to deal with that yeah so tell me some of the high notes there which is I'm interested in knowing what is chilly like where you guys were What did you miss about the United States wouldn't what like after like several months? There are things not just like you know the comfort of a bedroom or whatever But what was like I remember the times I've been abroad when I got home the United States. I was like I really like it here Yeah, I like it here, you know, and I remember thinking to myself. I don't care how much you're paying taxes It's so comfortable and just in this entire country. It's comfortable. There's a reason We pay for certain things. Yeah, America's a beautiful place. I would never really want to live I would live other places, but like I would I would always come back here. I would say for one It was pretty hard to speak Spanish to some of these people. Luckily everyone that was with us They're all English speakers. I didn't learn a ton of Spanish when I was there You're around English -speaking people the whole time, but when you were on your own, you know, we had days we would just live in the town and that was one thing I was gonna go the next thing I was gonna say is the food they had a phenomenal food but like you can't walk down the street and just get whatever you know I can't go to mom's deli shout out mom's deli the reopening but it's just the convenience of things especially when you're in the backcountry the convenience of walking to the sink and filling up your water instead of Pinpointing a river on a map putting iodine tablets for 30 minutes to wait for it to you know clear up get sanitized and Then only drinking half of it because you got to use the other half for cooking or whatever Shout whatever, you know, it's just basic stuff. I mean being in the mountains I remember coming back down and it was all snow and just being like, oh, thank god There's grass. I don't know how to dig a hole in the ground throughout Three feet of snow just to take a shit. Yeah, I mean using toilet paper like One of the big things just to go back for one second on one of the things that they really touch on they have something called Lnt, which is leave no trace and That you can get a master certificate in that but that's pretty much like don't build a fire on the ground because it's gonna leave A carbon footprint for a certain amount of time pack out everything that you pack in If you're gonna take a dump in the woods, you got to dig a hole You got to be a certain amount of feet away from the campsite certain amount of feet from any kind of water You got to put it a certain amount of feet down Etc etc. Sounds like they all got together and be like they were like clean up these woods is getting expensive Yeah, we certified people for sure Side up for us and honestly, it's funny, but like that's kind of what they do They They were like, "We gotta make sure these guys are dialed in." Because they love the environment, you know? And it's such a beautiful landscape. They call it the land of fire and ice, because one day, we always joked, we're like, "Oh man, Patagonia is coming to fuck us again." It could be sunny, and then it's a monsoon, and then it's snowing, and then you're getting blown over. You've got 50 -pound packs on, and you're getting tossed by the wind. - So was that all in all a a pretty safe existence or you guys have some scrapes that occurred when you were there? - It was definitely not, it was safe because our instructors were badass and were able to take care of us, but I mean, there were times where it was sketchy. I mean, I had a few. - Meaning your environment or like what you were doing? - Well, I mean like-- - You put it that way, both. - Yeah, I mean, are you on the, I'm talking about it, are you like hanging off the side of a cliff, you know, type of safety or you're down in town or-- - Well, both actually, that you bring that up. So town, I'll tell a real quick story. We get into town and you have two days where you hang out in town, you meet your people, we stayed in a hostel. You gotta be on this bus to start the trip. If you're not there, it's a leadership school. Fuck you. I mean, you either gotta show up the next day on your own, but yeah, they're not coming, there's no Uber, they're not coming down to get you yeah so I actually went out the night before I wasn't getting fucked up or anything like that but I had late dinner came back to my hostel my buddies walked me back I mean this town is small like they this is very hard to get to you're way down south and it wasn't even developed until like the 20th century so it's a small it can be a sketchy town I mean it's not third world but it's pretty damn close and so I got locked out so I went and slept with my buddy next morning. I woke up, I said, I gotta get all my shit. I gotta run back, I gotta gather all this stuff and be on that bus 'cause I am not getting left behind. The door's locked, I'm like, what the fuck? I'm in this random country. I had to find my way, I had to find my way through this town at two in the morning trying to get there, couldn't get out. Finally, and I'll say that, I broke into the hostel because it was like-- - I've been looking for you. - Yeah, - Exactly, they haven't found me yet. I've stayed here in the U .S. But I broke into this hostel, I finally figured my way in and got all this stuff and I ended up leaving. And the lady was actually super cool. She came down, she was speaking to me in Spanish. I hope she was cool, I didn't know what she was saying and ran out the door, made it to the thing. But I remember walking through these streets with all this $1 ,000 worth of gear and I'm like, man, I stick out like a sore thumb. And it's like neon and green and There's no one around and it was sketchy. No one's wearing Patagonia and Patagonia They definitely wore some Patagonia Pat, but I mean It's it's a different world over there. They they don't have some of the same stuff that we have so the town is pretty is pretty well Do they care to have it meaning like there's a What we have is part of our culture being like they don't they probably See us walking down the street with all this sort of like Western gear. They're like, yeah, I don't need half that shit I think that I think that they do they they I'm sure there's certain people who don't I mean We'd sit down to dinner and after coming back. I'm like, I don't want the gringo menu, okay? I don't want a $30 hamburger. That's actually a lamb like just give me the lamb and rice and you know Just give me what you got and they'd laugh, you know, you figure it out But uh, but I generally I think that they were yeah People are very happy for us to be there They have shops and all kinds of stuff and the people in Chile are super super nice You're gonna get bad bad people all over everywhere you go here in st. Louis I mean you walk down the street a certain time at night like you're kind of asking for it And I was asking for it that day with all this shit on me. Yeah, you felt that way. I felt a little exposed for sure And it's an unfamiliar environment. So So, but, but yeah, I got on the bus and I was fine. So I made it through. But there was an incident the year after where like, they told us don't walk around late at night with a big camera around your neck or like a really nice, don't bring your laptop or my buddy had fishing around. - Just from a value standpoint. - Just from, don't walk around waving $100 bills at people who don't have the same stuff. You know, there was a kid who got held up and he tried to fight it and he actually got stabbed. It was pretty insane story. He lived and the only reason he lived is they had just done their wilderness first responder And they gauze them up and really save the guy's life if that's not a if that's not a testament to the school Yeah, I mean there you go Maybe they need to is there a fighting class? Yeah, there we go. Now. We're talking a hundred percent prevention. Yeah Yeah, here's what you do When they come running at you, but just give me your fucking camera. That's what I do Yeah, take it. I'm tossing it over there and running the other direction. I'm not Over anything like that. Let's talk film. What are you gonna do in this bowl? You know, I mean you can take it, but let's just get my numbers or I'd be sending you Yeah, exactly. What the fuck you do with this in three days when all the memory or whatever They're not gonna do nothing. They're just gonna sell it and make a quick dollar yeah so other things that occurred there I mean you're there for a long time you know yeah about about six months six seven months and so what was were you guys I'm just have this vision my head if you guys are just sort of backpacking around and finding different I mean it's a curriculum they're moving you probably through are you guys pretty much around one place the whole time no we - We, I wrote down a couple things on here 'cause of course I don't remember, but it was like two weeks at a time. I mean, we did miles every day. I mean, it's a stretch. I kind of wish I had a map to show you. I'll email it to you just so you can look it over. - Yeah, I'm interested to know, yeah. - But no, you start off in this, they call it a Campo. - I'm sure we can put a map like right here in the screen. - Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I know, I was thinking like Joe Rogan, like we can pull, You know we got Rachel. Yeah, the Jamie of the of the pod. Yeah But yeah, no, they have a Campo where you start off. It's where they have all your food They teach you how to ration everything to be able to pack out teach you how to pack your bag the right way Teach you how to cut toothbrushes in half because weight is such a big deal They were telling my buddy not to bring his fishing rod. He's like motherfucker. I'm fishing. They're salmon out here like This is what I do. Yeah, bring in my fish. I will take the extra weight and God that's that's when I broke the news This is a fishing trip to him. Exactly. Yeah. Well, we all eat salmon for about a week And I'll say you did so he was a good guy once it'll be friends with skills But no, we so we start off there and then what they do from there. That's kind of like base camp Then they put you on this bus and most of the roads out there Gravel roads, you know, you get some paved streets, but they drive you to a drop -off point, they let you out, and they say, "All right." And you pretty much hike all the way, you go south the whole time. - You say they, are you talking about like the bus driver or the program? - Knowles, the program. Yeah, the bus driver too. He was like a legend. I think his name was Luciano or something like that. - So he works for-- - He works for Knowles. They're all employed, most of them come from the town. They employ people from the town of Coyeque and around in Chile. So a lot of your guides and helpers are Chilean. Now you have two, lots of other outdoors experts that come in and work for Knowles. They're based out of Wyoming, so a lot of them are from Wyoming, Montana, just very outdoorsy, badass people. So this guy just pulls up to, they call it a stop, but there's probably not much there. There wasn't much there. There was a stream. Outside is out there. Yeah. And they said, Okay, get out and the first thing they did is they had us go through this like stream up to our knees Which is crazy for me because in the Boy Scouts, it's like never get your shoes wet Yeah, never get much here. They said you're gonna be wet your boots are gonna be wet the whole pretty much the whole time And I'm like, okay. Well, this is already new. So we immediately not even five minutes after getting left off the bus We're soaking wet. Is it cold? Yeah. Yeah, it's fucking cold. They got glaciers up there So I mean like if you're walking in like runoff sucks. It's really bad. It's the worst. It's the worst But you know they teach you like how to keep your feet warm and dry your socks at night and you know look out for Athletes foot and stuff like that cut your toes. So you don't get toenails So you don't get ingrown toenails while you're out there because you're hiking so much. What kind of boots were you wearing? I had a Solos. They were really nice. And I'll say one little thing about them, because they all gave me a lot of crap. We used to, because our boots were wet and then we get cold at night, sometimes they'd freeze. So we'd put them by the fire, warm up your socks and your boots and everything. Yeah. Boots caught on fire. Mine caught on fire. Yours did? Yeah. Beautiful. About two weeks into the trip, we hadn't even gotten to the hard stuff yet and my buddies thought it was the funniest fucking thing in the whole world I'm like guys I'm this is the problem we're fucked here where am I gonna get new boots yeah you're screwed like the worst thing that could have happened I've got a picture of my buddy he was because they shrunk so he was like well I'll just cut out a side so at least your your foot can come out I think that's gonna work should have talked to I'm 19 I don't fucking know we're just this guy's from Texas, Jackson, great guy, but he sliced my boots up. - He's not a topper. - No, no, no, he's not a shoemaker. So I ended up having a little hole in my boots and I would strap it every day. Ducktape was my best friend for about a week. Now, God bless, they would do these drops. So if you needed certain gear, like when we go up into the mountains, we needed different shit, more ropes, ice picks, Crampons they would drop that off there So I got my mountaineering boots and thank God I could throw my other ones away same pair No, they're different. They actually sucked more because they were plastic boots. Oh But you just tough it out Really? Yeah, so the mountaineering boots are plastic because they're gonna be more firm Yeah, and you can put crampons on them. They have so much gear man. It was it was gnarly - So you were there for a total of six months? - Yes. - And when you were getting ready to leave, were you ready to be done? - I was. I was ready to come home and see my buddies. I'm really close with a lot of my friends from here. And like, it's like your first year away, you know? You know, those parties when you come back home. - So you were a freshman, basically. - Yeah, yep. It was 2014, 2015. So you come back home and you're like, Damn, we get to hang out. Well, it was crazy because these guys all came what a different experience you guys just had I didn't know how to explain it. It's almost a point of separation 100 % they just came back from their first year at college. They're Russian fraternities. They're going to frat parties They're studying for stuff sort of I'm just out in the fucking woods and Yeah, the conversations were were wild coming on. You probably missed your buddies from our You're like, well, two at a great, I mean, you've only been gone for a year, but you're kind of most fun, most recent memories or we're not in the room. No, they weren't. Those guys weren't exactly relating to what you were saying. They're probably, oh, that sounds cool, Sean. Yeah, I think until later on when they saw the pictures, and now, of course, we're 30 years out, they're like, fuck, man, I wish I would have gone and done that. And that is one thing that I really like, because I have a little resentment, You know, I never really did the whole like SEC college thing and I went and visited. I had my fair share. I don't think I needed 100 percent, but, you know, I, um, especially as I get older, like I wouldn't trade that experience for the world. No, that's a good one. It really is. It reminds me of like where I went to college, uh, in Swanee in Tennessee, which was, uh, it's very much, it's like that. It's not as intense. I mean, we're in Tennessee, we're in the United States, but we're on top of just the whole setting of the, they use the outdoors enormously there for teaching. And we had class outside all the time. And we're in the Cumberland Plateau or in the Smoky Mountains Cumberland Plateau. - And I may have gone and tour, is it surrounded by like tall pine trees? - Well, it's kind of, if you're driving, You know, Highway 24 goes past Nashville, then it goes to Chattanooga, then you take 75 to Atlanta. So it's pretty much right between Nashville and Chattanooga off 24. So when you're going up, it's the highest point between Nashville and Chattanooga before you start descending down into Chattanooga. And it's in Swan, Tennessee, it's called the University of the South. And it's got about a 10 ,000 acre campus, it's called Domaine, and it's, I mean, 90 % wood and 95 % wood and there's just the school in the middle and all the science, ecologies, biologies, all that that we took. We spent so much time outside for-- - How cool is that? - It was really cool. And I mean, I could take us into many things about that but it does remind me of that. It's sort of making me like that experience more hearing about yours. - It's different. - It is different, and it was, but it was also very, a really rigorous school that, you know, the culture there was like after classes in the morning, like everyone goes to the library and studies, and then you go to dinner. And then, you know, it was very sort of like, but it was a small school. So if you weren't doing that, you were sort of not hanging out with people to not seeing anybody. Yeah. And so I did. I missed the big SEC. I mean, it's a small school and football team. And, you know, when some lose some and but definitely miss out on the on the big school thing. But so it had there been had this been a four year program, even if you'd been going back to the same place, would you have been like I'm going? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I want to go back, like, I also kind of kicked my, you know, life happens real quick and, you know, I came back home and tried to go to school and do the whole nine yards of like, I'm going to get a degree, I'm going to get a communications degree, kind of turned into trying to do a business degree. I went to UMSL, they have a great business school. I love that school a whole lot. As we talked about earlier, I did not end up finishing UMSL, but it was kind of one of those things where they set you up at Knowles to be a wilderness guide. I could have walked out of there and applied for a job and could have gotten in pretty easily. They probably have really high placement percentages. Yeah, yeah, especially from this program with it being a year, they cover everything. So whereas someone might do just the sea kayaking or just the rock climb or just the mountaineering, I found the one that you could do all of it. Did you feel capable when you left? Yes, like had they been like hey Shawn. We'd like you to stay here and guide the next trip Yeah, I I don't want to sit here and be like oh, I would have been smooth as hell But I nobody would have died I would have I would have gotten it through it would have been great I would have been able to do some really good teaching and to this day like I said it was kind of fun You know, I wanted to bring up certain points coming to talk to you guys So I kind of went through and did and I wanted to update and see what their website was looking like, and I got on my old Facebook page and started going through pictures and stuff like that, and it just was like, holy shit, the amount of things that we do that you forget about just over time, and the amount of knowledge that I can relate to, even me just being comfortable of, like when we go out on a vacation, or like we just went to Arkansas a couple weekends I'm like I could if I forget I'll just buy something there You know I mean that comfortability of being able to get on a plane with a shirt and a t -shirt and just be like if something happens I can get it on the other side. I mean yeah, I'll figure it out where cuz out there if something happens You're screwed. I gotta airdrop you shit. Uh -huh But like yeah exactly god that boot thing was so fucked up, but but yeah, no very capable It's it's it's been nice too because 'cause my buddy's, you know, I wanna plan some stuff to go to Glacier and nothing too crazy. I don't wanna take anybody and have them have a horrible time. - Sure. - Just like I don't ever wanna give somebody an edible and have them go to the moon, they'll never buy it again. - Right. - They'll never come hiking with me if I take them on a 60 day course and they just hate their life. So-- - Probably not. - Yeah, so like-- - Probably woulda scratched that it. (laughing) - 100%, so woulda scratched mine and they would tell me to fuck off. - But yeah, no, fully capable to do in anything after that? So before we jump from out-- god, I won't say that word about nulls. What other experiences there to kind of stick in your mind as far as you walk out of there? Sounds like with some really good friends still, with highly capable as far as being able to do things outdoors across a wide range of things. And so home as we talked about and you know talking about UMSL and so forth but before we jump full into that sort of thing else it knows that you feel like it really is the essence or a fun sort of happening that you think it would be interesting to share. Yeah I mean it's one of those things where I could sit here and just go for hours and talk about all kinds of different things because it's the more you think about it. Exactly the more comes to your mind but I mean a few things like the mountaineering was the best thing in the whole world We got to be on a glacier. They have like one of the biggest glaciers besides Antarctica that it's still Active still moving glacier runoff. We did ice climbing and just crazy shit that you see on you see on the Patagonia magazine I'm like, oh, I was fucking there But I would say the biggest thing for me is we saw some shit Especially see kayaking that course. It's really hard. I love it. I don't want to say that I wish I never did it, but it was out of everything that I did that was one of the crux So the way that they do it, it's not like you know you paddle around a little lake We're out there for 36 days and you pack a tandem kayak and you're sleeping on the Meaning you're pulling one with shit behind you or there's just two of you Okay, because you have so much shit packed in this kayak it takes two of you couple guys had singles Sucked for them some guys liked it, but whatever they're badass good for them Yeah, but no, it was more just like you had to camp on wherever you camped was That's like make or break it like camping on snow sucks. You got to do so much shit I mean wiping my ass with snow like it. Yeah, it's not real party And so you're out here and you you're on this coast You got to read the tides because I remember specifically One night we didn't read the tide right and we set our tent up. We had all this shit set out Yeah, we woke up in the middle of night And my buddy's out in his underwear grabbing our pots and pans and shit that you are not getting back You're not gonna see for it. Yeah now into the ocean. Thank God. We got it all. Hopefully he got it all he did Yeah, I I would stand on the coast like there's another one over there I can one that don't forget that one. Yep. Yeah, don't Beans, - Beans, bro, you gotta go get the pressure cooker, dog. You gotta get back out there. But no, I would say, but it was cool because in that scenario, we fucked up, we didn't pack all our stuff up, we got a little acts of days of cool. Now, we didn't plan the tide right, but also we could have mitigated sending our homey out into the ocean and his underwear if we had just done what we had been training to do. And it was at the end of the course too. And They made a big point about that. And I always think about that, it's just like, man, if you just do it now. - You know what's crazy when those things happen is how obvious, when it all recedes, how obvious it is that that was gonna happen. You know, you're like, how fucking stupid were we to put our shit? - They told us. - I mean, without even telling you, just look at it, there's still some pools and like there's shit and you're just like, did I really, what were we doing? We must've been so tired by the time we got there, We just saw a clear space and we just jumped in it. - Said fuck it, and we paid for it. Yeah, you know, and it happens and that's how you learn. It's just like we were talking about, you make a mistake and I'll tell you what, we planned it out a whole lot for the rest of the time. - Well, and what's interesting is you probably, well, the times that's happened to me is you see like the ravine that might be coming through. You're like, okay, water's passing through here, but we're definitely up out up out of the way, you know, but if something happens, you know, 10 ,000 feet up, you know, or 5 ,000 feet up and you're already pretty high, but something happens up there, that thing comes rushing up. We've had like sleeping bags and tents like floating down the mountain or just like, well, now we know that. Yeah, that's the only way you can learn. And you know, I didn't know, like, we would learn about tides and read, - We had a tide charge. - Missouri, how are you supposed to know that shit? - I don't get, I'm not in the river. I mean, I'm in the who's all, hanging out in the big piney, just, you know, wow, this is crazy. But even down there, you can't just go jump in the Mississippi, especially if the tides, you can't just go jump in. People die out at Castlewood all the time because water's so dangerous. So add the factor of it being a frickin' ocean. I mean, there were nights, like we wake up every morning around three or four and you read the waves and if there's any white caps you got to wait like six or seven hours before you go back out there because it's so choppy the and it's cold as hell the worst thing you want to do is flip over in that water especially in a kayak kayaks are great when there aren't white caps yeah yeah so we were lucky we had some rudders and stuff on here but man no you're getting tossed and those waves are a lot bigger in them and you stand on the beach all warm looking at it. - Well, for real, I mean, the profile of a kayak is what, nine inches or something like that? - Yeah. - And so if you're down in the swell of a wave, that wave, even if they're small waves, they don't have to be a foot of a wave to roll you. If you hit the wave wrong, it can really ruin your fucking-- - Which is cool, they teach you how to roll, they teach you how, you know, we got spray skirts on and everything like that. But you're not rolling in a tandem I act with two people But I would say that was a really eye -opener and and like I said, I could go on for hours about about that Olympic fucking kayaking is insane. How normally is that those guys are nuts? That is crazy And they I mean people died doing that shit - I would have Matt will especially in a non Like they build the course they do and the So people don't die is you know the rocks so what these guys are rolling? They don't know if a rock is sitting right there doing the same shit in Colorado I mean they're doing the same shit on class six class nine fucking I don't even know how high the level goes, but it's it's bad I mean it's like to a point It's just like going to a black diamond in the back country, and there's just skulls on the sign It's like don't go down here unless you know how to ski and then before but beneath - Yeah, yeah. - It's like, for real. - You're going to die. - Here's a list, and people are like, those guys didn't know how to ski. - Yeah, exactly. - There's no way they'd die. - Telluride, and you know, there's these giant shoots out there, which is not my cup of tea, right? - Telluride's gnarly. - And, you know, my sister was out there, and she's like, yeah, so -and -so died out, you know, and skiing up there, and I was just like, I believe it. - That looks like something that would kill somebody. - There was just recently three pro Burton snowboarders who just died, I forget where it is. I want to say they were in Big Sky or something like that. I'm probably butchering it, but the professional snowboarders, they died in an avalanche. It's just like these guys do this every single day. That's the other thing too. If you're out there every single day, your chances go way higher. That's something bad's gonna happen. But yeah, you know you figure it out, but the kayaking was gnarly. It was crazy. Yeah, I mean as you go back to the kayaking bit the Jesus snowboard like snowboarding is hard on like a groomed slope, you know Yeah, and I switched over a few years ago. So I snowboard now. I used to sell snowboards and skis as well Yeah, I love skiing. I probably would have been a better skier, but I had to go to the dark side Well snowboard I did the same thing and it was a painful experience, you know switch at my wrist still kind of click a little from all the Falls that we take yeah when we make that switch and I just reached a point with skiing where I was like If I'm gonna get better, I'm probably gonna get really hurt soon because that's just be part of that process You know and I was that more you know because I was you know I was in my mid -20s and I was like if I want to push this I'm good. I just have to be prepared that I'm really gonna fuck myself up for sure a point and I don't really want to do that. No, I got kind of I'm kind of over that And so I'm just gonna learn how to snowboard which I'll probably Do something bad will likely occur, you know But it won't be probably at the same magnitude as to what I might find myself getting into if I keep going with skis Do you still ski? - No, I haven't skied since I started snowboarding. - You don't even get out to Hidden Valley? - Well, no, I still go-- - Oh, you still go hitting the mountain. So you've been snowboarding still. Oh, well, great. Fantastic. - No, no, I actually went this year for the first time in a long time. - Where'd you go? - Well, we just went to Northern Michigan 'cause we have young kids and I didn't want to take them out to like super steep slope 'cause they would have been like-- - Yeah, you gotta start 'em. - Yeah, so we went up to Northern Michigan and it's a great place. Like this game, there's Boyne Mountain, and just way up at, way Northern Michigan, and there's Nubs Knob is up there as well. There's three, was it Boyne Mountain? The three of them. - Is Monarch out there? - I don't know, I haven't heard of that. That might be around. There are quite a few, but these are like their Colorado -esque, meaning that they have like nice gondola lifts like they've really they're these aren't just like shitty little hills there's a lot of them I so one of them is owned by a larger like veil type company and I think it's boy it used to be called Boyne Highlands and now it might just be called the Highlands okay and I think they're owned by kind of a larger parent company that does like the Colorado stuff but all the is there because, you know, they all have to keep up now. Whoever puts in the gondola, they're like, mother fucker. Now we got to put one in. So it's really nice up there. And it was fun to snowboard with them. So we have two boys and one is like, I'm going to snowboard. They were almost like, I'm going to ski, which was great because they could, while they were learning how to do it, also learn about being on lists with a skier or a snowboarder or sort Having to coexist for sure these two different sports because they're different sports for sure Even getting off the lift is different do it the first time you get off on a lift on a look no one tells you no You know they know what's gonna happen Yeah, and there's nothing you can do to prevent the fucking shit show that's gonna ensue the second that lift starts And you got to put that thing down looking at everybody next to you like all right guys about to go down I don't know if you I did not take lessons. I just grabbed it. I was like snowboarding. I didn't take lessons. Yeah, I got on the lift and I was getting up to the top. And I was like, my other foot's not in this thing. This is going to be interesting. It was a full yard sale. And everyone's like, what the fuck are you doing? I was like, I got no idea. But I'll be better soon. I'll be better soon. Catch me on the next lift. So let's move on. So you know, as you you get back and you're like I'm gonna go do this so where'd you end up how to take me just kind of the rest of the journey to where you sit today it's yeah you're smokies so I came back I ended up going to Webster University for a little bit because the credits transferred to Webster University great school I had a blast I had a couple courses but long story short ended up at Webster for about a year I did well half half a year, I did two semesters there. And then I ended up wanting to go to a different school. And my dad, my little brother had gone to, he wanted to apply to DU. So I'm like, oh cool, we wouldn't be in school at the same time. - Is that Boulder? - No, Boulder is in Boulder. That's Colorado Boulder, we, or CU Boulder. DU is in Denver. So it's Denver University. - Got it. - So I went to Denver University after Webster and stayed in a dorm, never been in a dorm. I was 21 at the time, my roommate was not 21 and I was like, I just wanna, I didn't know anybody. I knew a couple people who lived in Denver but no one at the school. So I was like going out, trying to make friends and I'd be drinking every night and stuff like that. I was always a really good student. Like I always went to class, which You know young guys that we hire today. It's like if you're in school Do just go like if you just go to school and you just go to class you'll figure it out nine out of ten times I'll tell you a lot. Yeah, it's pretty easy not school in general, but showing up to class is easier than it looks and But I'll tell you what that school was really really hard And I just didn't I couldn't find the connection to the school and to the environment and it just didn't really work out for me So I ended up leaving that school coming back home, And that's where I found UMSL. - Okay. - So at that point, I was like working. I've always had two jobs. I work landscaping for forever. And then I was working at the Alpine shop. Met a buddy there. We fell in love over snowboarding. We would go out to the mountains and ski and stuff like that. We'd sold skis. We sold all the gear that I got to use at Knowles. I sold footwear. So I got and got to take some of that into this store, got like a general manager position at 21 just to sell hard goods and things like that. So I was able to use some skills, which I was happy to beat back in an environment that I spent so much time in. So moved in with him, had an apartment, it was all fun and games, we were having a blast. He ended up having a kid and doing his own thing. And that's when I went I can live with my dad for a little bit, found a new apartment, went there, stayed there, stayed there for forever, started going to UMSL, got into business school, and I think UMSL is a phenomenal school. I really, really liked that school a lot. I took a lot of random classes, just I didn't know what I was gonna do. - Right. - Honestly, to this day, I still don't have any clue what I'm gonna do. - Well, I think a lot of people just choose. - They Just figure it out and honestly, I think my problem was is I thought that I needed to find something I was gonna do and then that would be a straight path And then I'd be making money and I'd have a job and you realize as you get older Like there's a lot of kind of why I respect what you guys are doing here so much is it's just like You came up with an idea and now you're building it into fruition like it's based off of stuff that you Did for so long and you saw you had a vision And you just work every day towards it. You don't really know like we've got a podcast and you guys have that awesome Video series, you know what I mean? It's like different things happen. And so I ended up like I took a music course I know you're really into music. Yeah took a music course So they just went through like the history of music and I always played guitar and yeah I started getting really more into guitar and learning about music theory and stuff like that and I didn't take it anywhere. I still do it to this day, but I think college is a great avenue for that. But anyway, I took some business courses, was able to get an understanding of kind of, I could break into a small sales area and kind of, I've always been an on hands kind of guy. If you show me how to do it, I might fuck it up one time, but like, I will figure out how to do it right, and then I won't ask you anymore. So After UMSL, we had some stuff that kind of happened and it just, well, we had some stuff happen. We had COVID happens. I kind of didn't really, they went all online and I just didn't go back. I just, I finished out my semester and was kind of just like, I think it happened to a lot of people. And I still have all my credits and everything. If I want to go back one of these days, I can always get it done. But, and I definitely am a big proponent of school for everybody. I think school is great if it works for you. If you find something that you're passionate about and you figure out a lane to go that way, do grind that out. Like, if you want to go to Rankin, you're going to make, you're going to make more money than me where I'm at right now, just having a labor job or working for a union or something like that. But anyway, I left Umsoul and then I kept on doing landscaping was kind of like in a weird spot where I didn't know what I was going to do, still work for Alpine Shop, kind of took on more of a leadership role in the landscaping realm and then I got offered a part -time job as a brand ambassador at Smokies just because hands you shake kind of deal and I did really well as a brand ambassador and wanted to take on some more talk to my VP and he said hey we'll give you a couple of counts and see how it goes and now I'm helping out my director as one of the assistant sales managers. And so far it's going well, I'm having a blast. - It's just amazing how there's so many stories that that's how we're, that's where people entered, right? Is they just, it's not something they planned for, but it's something, you know, it's the, you know, preparation meets opportunity or whatever it is. I mean, it's just, that's, for almost all things, it seems, it's the rare situation that is linear and very planned, you know? There are people out there, you know, your lawyers, your doctors, private equity, you know, people who have just been like, since they were in like, you know, ninth grade, or like, I'm gonna do this, and there's nothing that's gonna tear me off of it. - And I And I love that, my dad's one of those people, he's an ENT surgeon, so he grinded his way, there was a straight path, but even he had bumps in the road. I mean, I hear stories, maybe he'll see this, maybe he won't, but he has stories of going out, partying in his ass off in college, missing an exam and being like, oh fuck, med school, see you later, they're hard as hell over there. And he was able to kind of up by her straps and figure it out. And now he is where he is today. He's got an amazing business over with Sound Health in Kirkwood. And he does phenomenal. I mean, and he loves his job. He works, I think, way too freaking hard. But he's a doctor. You know, he's out here making people's lives better. Yeah, probably doesn't feel like work totally. Yeah, I think he wished one of us out of the three would have gone in and did it. But I said, "Nah, man, I want to go to the woods. I want to go to the woods instead." Well, it's it's it's a rare person who who knows kind of at such a young age yeah what they what they want to do and you know that's why there is liberal arts education because the whole concept being that it's an exposure to all the different sort of verticals I guess of academics all these different subjects and they're not and that's why they're graduate schools you once you leave your liberal arts school You don't know shit. You don't have to think real well, but you're gonna go work and now once you know You want to do you can go get your masters or whatever you want to do So it's by design a ton of buddies who have these college degrees and they do something else now That's super lucrative and they love it and has nothing to do with what they did in college. That's a biology major. Yeah. Yeah, there you go Here we are. You know, it's awesome, but that's super cool You I mean you learn some things and you figure it out And that's why I love take extracurricular and college I mean take some take some random ass classes that you would have never thought you liked yeah You might find your new career right there. You really do you don't never know and usually it's may not be the subject But there's somebody in there who might inspire you to do something that yeah that Takes you in just a really good way. It's like even Lee meet network. Yeah, look at where I had and then Kelsey and Rachel I mean this is just like a dream team that's just gonna all come together from different aspects all over the place and that's what makes a cool team I mean if you can get hard -working people in the same room yeah it's pretty sweet it's pretty awesome I think it is like a band right you know you've got people who can just play their instruments really well and you know it's it's just crazy how all these paths cross and it's it's it's rarely as a result of having read someone's resume. - Yeah, resumes are, they're very important, but they're also, they don't tell the whole story. One thing, I learned this from one of my bosses in landscaping, he would always be like, okay, if you call me, I want you to tell me at least two things that you tried. I don't care if you threw a rock in the hole. Like, I don't care what it is. Don't call me and say, This is the problem. How can we fix it? Call me and say hey, I tried this and this I'm stuck now I need some guidance and he's like as long as you bring to me a proposed solution It could be the worst solution in the world But as long as I know that you thought about it and like are doing your job to proactively help. Yeah, dude We're good. I'll help you out. It'll be fine. Um now, of course you fuck up over and over and over again Sorry, buddy. Yeah, maybe we should find something else to do it's not that hard 100 % um but you know it takes all kinds and and I'm happy just as you have a great team like I really love our team I don't know any other company where I could pick up the phone right now and call our VP of sales and be like dude I need help with this or can you tell me about this account but it feels good to know that you have a support system and our team works really really well together across a big state man it is it's actually it is a huge state, as states go. And I help out in Illinois as well, so it's it's just every day, every day there's something new. Yeah, every day there's something new. Well, I'm going to wrap this up, man. Please. Yeah. Thanks for coming in. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's been fun to learn about Smokies and your story. So thank you. Hey, brother. Appreciate you. Yes, sir.