Dominic Twomey video recording [00:00:00] Siddo: Hello and welcome to The Better Places podcast, where we dig into the policies, ideas, and people making our built environment just that bit better. I'm Siddo Dwyer today we're exploring, barking and dagenham and the leader. Who's turning this outer london borough into a powerhouse of progress. Meet councilor Dominic Twomey. Born and bred and Beam Park, prided for the river beam and elected back in 2010 And now the driving force behind a council that's out built every London borough in affordable homes of the past five years. Councillor Twomey, welcome to the podcast. Dominic Twomey: Thanks very much for having me on today. It's, uh, it, it's interesting to, uh, yeah, discuss these things with people outside the borough, so looking forward to it. Siddo: And do makes no stranger to top fights. He helped beat the BMP grip, in barking and dham took the reins as deputy leader and finance chief in 2014 and, and stepped up as leader in 2024, and now he's steering, barking and dagenham through Europe's biggest housing boom. That's 50,000 homes in 20,000 new jobs by 2037. That's an ambition that while his community is at the heart of everything that he does. We're talking 3000 homes delivered through their company BeFirst and extraordinary number four, in five new homes delivered being affordable and account for one in five council homes delivered across London. That's a record rooted in his ward for his people and for his promise to deliver. A better place for barking and Dagenham for Dominic. It's person with half the borough's, kids living or experiencing a form of poverty tackling. This is a cardinal priority of his administration from be first to Beam Park. He's making barking and dum a better place, not just through bricks, but with a sense of hope. And Dominic, thanks for being here and let's dive into how you are doing it. Um. Dominic, you've been a council for gas coin, uh, ward of Blue since 2010. And then deputy, then the finance lead as we just mentioned. How's that journey, uh, going from beating, uh, uh, political party that put your borough, um, for many different reasons on the map to managing, uh, budgets and balanced budgets to now shaping a borough in which you were born? Dominic Twomey: Yeah, I mean it, uh, it makes me feel old when you talk about being a council. Not at all. Not at all. I think, um, you know, it, it's been quite, uh, an interesting journey. Um, I'm not, you know, wanting to concentrate too much on, on the BP, but that, that was the spring ball for me, um, to get into politics and the fact that, uh, I had a parent that had been a longstanding counselor. Long before the BNB um, uh, I did, I had little interest in local politics up until the BNB came and it was personal ' cause I took it as a personal slight and a shame, um, on, on, on myself, friends in the borough and, and barking and David itself because I know what community we had then and have now. And I couldn't understand why so many people were flocking. To that kind of politics. So, uh, the history of that's well documented. Uh, the BNP had a very short stay in our borough. That's not to say there are not pockets, uh, of people that, that still would support that type of policy. We've seen the rise of reform, uh, at a national level, and we need to be on our guard to make sure that that doesn't happen at a local level in, in terms of the. Journeys becomes Desy leader, uh, and finance. It is fairly unusual in as much as that my background's about helping people, um, in all different sectors worked in the charity sector, uh, you know, dealing with people's welfare rights. So I'm all about people. Now. The finance underpins with that, of course, because if you haven't got good finance. Then you can't deliver good services. Uh, and we've seen how difficult that is over the last 14 years though, where good finance, uh, has proved, uh, increasingly difficult to manage. 'cause we just haven't had it, it's just been cut under austerity. So it, it's a constant battle as, as to what you can and can't deliver whilst trying to protect the most vulnerable people. Absolutely. I. Siddo: I don't know from your background, and, and many people call you a local legend. I think a lot of your residents Dominic Twomey: can, I, I don't think anyone calls me a local legend, people. Well, you, Siddo: you might not, but, uh, I'm sure I've seen [00:05:00] references to that, that your, your, uh, your household name from any residents in, in your, uh, in your past of the world. But listening to local concerns whilst holding strategic responsibilities that affect the whole borough must be quite a different, sorry, difficult balancing act and, uh, thread, um, that, that you, that you have to needle. I, I wonder what was the driving force behind B first? With, uh, the climate in an environment where, uh, the conservative government at the time wanted local councils to sell finance, their HRAs, et cetera. Um, and there wasn't a national, a big enough national push to build new homes. What motivated you and your local authority to say you actually we're gonna do this differently? And as we've seen that there's testament to deliver more homes than most London councils have managed to achieve. Dominic Twomey: Yeah, well, I think it, it was twofold. Um, I, I, my, my own, um, personal journey into that was that, as you may have mentioned, I, I represent gas coin wad. I had family connection in gas coin wad. So I, I knew, and I worked in gas coward actually for, for three or four years for a charity I worked for. Um, and I saw on a, on a, on a weekly basis that those properties. Were not fit for purpose. Actually, you know, they've been built in the, the, maybe the sixties. They were off their time. Um, and actually we, I would visit people in my work life. I would visit my family over there and you would look at properties and, and couldn't understand how we had people living in them. So at that point, we, we, you know, I, I, I. I spoke to colleagues, spoke to the leadership of the council. So this was prior 2014, uh, from when I became the deputy leader. Um, and really put a push on in gas coin world particularly to, to start to, um. Make a change there to start talking about the delivery of new housing over there because, um, reside already existed. Mm-hmm. Reside had existed from from, but you can Siddo: tell our listeners a bit more about Reside. Dominic Twomey: so Reside was a company that was set up, um, to, uh, manage, uh, housing stock, the, the new built housing stock. And so. Council is shareholder, a hundred percent shareholder, but it's an autonomous company. Uh, so it looks after, you know, all, all, all of the, the day-to-day running and operational aspects that any, um, housing association would have. So, so that had already existed for some, uh, new build housing embarking, and I saw that as a sort of stepping stone, uh, to being able to build more housing and, and across the borough, of course. But actually I had a focus on gas growing more 'cause I knew it so well. Yeah. And I knew that that particular estate, with, that housing was outdated, uh, was in my opinion in many areas, not, not fit for purpose. not, Um, and so, so that, that was a starting point of the journey, um, because it had to be done differently because we couldn't build council housing, the costs. Um, the situation was in, as you say, with government, you know, trying to, uh. Still got issues with our own housing, uh, our HRA, which is our stock, which, which we need to address alongside, uh, the building of new sort of units. So it it, that was the start of the journey for me and then, you know, becoming a deputy leader and working closely with the leader and cabinet colleagues. And officers, we came up with the idea of B first as being, um, the accelerator in many ways of, of new build. Mm. For us, because obviously we had a huge ambition, uh, but also for other developers, uh, that might want to invest in the borough. We saw that as a way of, of part of the role of, of B first was about trying to accelerate development. So, you know, that, that people, uh. Have, have plots of land, sometimes significant plots of land and don't do anything on [00:09:00] them. And there are lots of reasons for that, lots of genuine reasons. Sometimes it's, we see now, uh, the change in the economy makes it very, very difficult to build, uh, you know, the viability, whether it's, uh, construction, inflation, uh, whether it's getting the right skill people in to do it. So there, there are a whole, whole range of, uh, reasons why people don't do that. But equally we wanted to try and do what we could to accelerate that growth from external people as well. And, uh, yeah, I think B first has, has proved, um, very successful at doing that. Siddo: And I think for Borough that has an ambition to deliver 50,000 new. I, myself from a, uh, Alison on the Bargo, I've lived in, uh, zone two briefly, uh, and enjoy the, the, the fruits that you, you get with that. So that's the. Um, fast transport links, whether it's a tube or, or, or buses. But bark and dham is quite a unique place. You, you are served by the district line and some really good, uh, uh, overground and mainland, um, services. Um, but what's going to facilitate that new housing? You talked a lot about, um, infrastructure in the past. I wanna know how keen is local authorities to make sure that it is complimenting with these homes with the infrastructure that you need. Dominic Twomey: I mean, that's absolutely key. Uh, we can talk about, and, and it's fantastic, the delivery, um, of affordable homes across all sort of different tenders, whether that's the mayors, you know, London, affordable rent, whether it's shared own ownership, whether it's London Living Rents, et cetera. Um, that, that's, that's fantastic that we facilitate that and as, but come in without the right type of infrastructure, it, it doesn't. Become inclusive for everybody. So I mean, that's a huge target. And one, we, we, we, our ambitions, uh, take us to, to that level in terms of the, the 50,000 homes Equally as important are the 20,000 jobs. Uh, because I, I would say we are moving into a phase now where skilled employment jobs, um. Um, I certainly, you know, neck and neck with house building in because they have to go hand in hand as you know, to provide the right sort of infrastructure. Um, you housing alone can cause as many issues as it creates opportunities if it's not done correctly. Um, so we, we are working it's key now over the next five to 10 years to work with all sorts of different partners. Um, you know, mayor of London. NHS police, et cetera, to make sure that we need, that we are able to deliver the right of infrastructure. Uh, you are right. We, we are incredibly well served by, uh, transport links. You know, the plug that everybody knows now that you can get from barking to French Church Street and under 20 minutes. Mm-hmm. You can now go from barking Riverside, the new station there that, um, we came into operation probably about three or four years ago, which is a game changer. Because when you talk about 20,000 new homes in that area alone without a train station, or its nearest train station being barking, which is, which probably 20 minute bus rides, can't walk there. 'cause you've got the A 13 almost cutting it off from, from the town center. It's crucial that we bring in that, that, um, infrastructure. The thas clipper accident now runs to barking Riverside. Well is a number example of good transport links. The improving of transport links. 'cause we've gotta use everything at our disposal, not just rail. Uh, we've gotta use, uh, our, um, walkways, you know, right on the Thas. Uh, so, and then you get to the point where actually with all of those new, um, units and we band the around figures, like 50,000 new homes and 20,000 at Riverside, it's all about people. That means that there's a lot more people coming into the borough. So what we need to make sure we have, um, our GP practices mm-hmm. The access to hospitals, good quality healthcare, you know, we've got enough, uh, police to ensure that any antisocial behavior is dealt with, and we've gotta make sure that that doesn't bring. Um, extra levels of, of crime, um, which, which, you know, a big influx, um, of population or change of population can do. So it is all about working in collaboration. Um, I think, as I say, we are at a point now where we will continue, uh, with our ambition on, on house building, but equally, we, we will, uh, have a strong focus on infrastructure and jobs because without that. Actually, we don't bring that inclusive growth to everyone in our borough. Siddo: Well, that's absolutely, and I, I only touched on, uh, the kind of history and the political makeup of the borough because that dignity of work aspect and make and allowing people to feel that they are part of that growth and the growth is inclusive, I think is fundamental. And it's the only way that you are, you are going to allow residents to come with you on that journey. Uh, there landmark schemes in your bio, like barking Riverside and Bean Park, I'm sure is quite close, uh, to you. Uh, and the wider Thames Road re development. I wonder what makes Barking and Daman special? Why is it that boroughs like bromley are stuck on 3.9 years of land supply and you are at five? What's the trick with Ednas in? Dominic Twomey: Well, listen, we, we are all different. That's the point. So what we do in barking and dag may, may well not work in. In Bromley or even your own, you know, RM field, et cetera. So, um, it, it's, it's about looking at every opportunity in every angle and making sure that you don't leave any stones unturned, but you need resource for that. So it can be difficult and I don't know there situation, but I know we're all unique. Um, I think, look, it's, it's hard. We don't, um, you know. There's a lot of work that goes into getting investment in places like bargain and da and we don't have people, you know, banging down the door to say, you know, take our money, do this. It, it takes a lot. Tell me, tell me what makes you special? What makes it special, your chance? History. I think our history, um, you know, we've got significant history, um, more history than actually people, people knew. And I knew actually until I become a counselor, you know, right through from some of our, um, fantastic buildings like East Manor House, been around for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. Um, obviously the, the development of the Beck Andre Estate that, again, people were, uh, very much aware of that's been around for over a hundred years. And it, it, it's key things like the Beck Andre Estate that, you know, supported people, that constant churn has, has been around for hundreds of years. And that churn from, you know, inner London, from the slums of London to places like barking and vacuuming outta London to give people a good quality, uh, home. To give them facilities, uh, you know, hospitals out fantastic outdoor spaces, which actually we, uh, probably goes under the radar a little bit, but we've got, um, significant number of parks, country parks, um, a number of them and will be green flag status. Um, so for, for a place to bring children, you know, to, to just enjoy the outdoors, uh, to, to enjoy. All of those things that people are entitled to. We've got a huge amount of that. So it probably makes us special, um, in terms of that had been, had been historically underdeveloped. Um, so now developing that we, we've got the ability to develop things possibly that other boroughs haven't got now 'cause they've already been on that journey and they've developed their outdoor spaces. Developed their housing, developed their infrastructure. So I think we are probably on a journey now that many other places have been through, and it's good for us to be able to learn, uh, from, from those journeys elsewhere. And that's what I'm keen to do, you know, working with everybody, uh, working with all of our partners, uh, to get to get it right. 'cause sometimes you don't get a second chance. Not quite, so, yeah, absolutely. You know, um. I'm biased as you'd expect to say. It's a, uh, you know, a fantastic place. I've lived there all my life. I've had opportunities brought, have children there, had opportunities not to live there and have always taken the decision to stay. 'cause I think we can do great things there. We have done some, some excellent things to date and I think there's, uh, there's some great stuff that we can do moving forward, uh, to support our residents, but we've also got to acknowledge that through all of our good work we've done over the last. 10 years. Some things, no matter what the churn of population remain static. Yeah. Child poverty, unemployment rates, um, are still Siddo: right up there, unfortunately, and we're certainly going to come onto it 'cause I know how close it is to your heart and it, it is a staple of your administration. I wonder on the points around, uh, the new affordable homes, which we had a discussion just before we came to the podcast about the actual number. I think we, I had around 83% and you corrected me and it stands at 79, which is still an extraordinary number of affordable homes delivered. Uh, with the 900 that you have, uh, projected, how are you ensuring that that is benefiting and that boom is lifting locals as well as drawing, um, those from outside of the borough? Because as much as it's important to attract, uh, new people and visitors, I'm sure for your, for your local residents, that they'd expect their fair share. Dominic Twomey: Absolutely. And it's one of those, um, I was gonna say tension. It's not so much tension, it's a balancing act, right? 'cause so, you know, looking at the gas scoring, uh, estate, because obviously I'm very sort of close to that, being the wall counselor there for the last 14 years. It, it's about looking at when you make these changes, when you, um, make the decision, uh, to pull down old, poor quality housing. It's about the engagement with the residents that are there at that time. Uh, 'cause I, I learned a [00:19:00] very sobering lesson many years ago when I, when I sort of first became the counselor there. And I, so I had a big push with my ward colleagues at the time to, to make the change there. Um, and leadership agreed that, you know, we would be able to sort of make the change, uh, in, in the gas going estate. And we started to set up a resident meetings, consultations. And I honestly thought I would walk into those consultation meetings, which were incredibly well attended, you know, for, um, for ME'S embarking. And, you know, often we get, we get low level attendance in my budget consultations and other things, but actually that's improved over the last few years. Well, even taking Siddo: that step as a war cast is really important. Yeah. You, you are not only the representative, you are in many ways a conjure a a Dominic Twomey: Absolutely. And that, that is, um, you know, uh. A key role for all counselors that, you know, we have to act in a community. Of course we have our, um, town hall meetings and we decide policy and strategy, but that's the real coalface talking to people on the front line. But, and I remember walking into one of [00:20:00] those very first meetings, probably back in around 2013, and honestly thinking that, that we were gonna get welcomed with open arms that the residents were gonna go. We, we are absolutely. Thrilled, you know, that actually we are gonna be moving on from here. And it was the opposite. In some ways. People were saying, I've lived here, I've lived there for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. What, what are you doing to my home? And, and actually that, that, that sort of was, was a really fundamental lesson to me that, you know, change, um, isn't. Universally accepted, um, you know, straight away. Um, and people had developed a sense of community there, even though the gas coin state at the time had a, had a not very good reputation. Um, but we worked through that and that, that's the point I'm trying to make coming on to balancing between local residents and actually new Londoners that, you know, we welcome, um, and want to attract into our borough as well. It, it's giving people that have lived. In a geographical, um, location like gas coin and have built up networks and, and, you know, uh, friends and, and built communities. It's about trying to bring them people back so people when we personally regenerate through B first and then turn it into reside properties. Give our residents the opportunity to come back. So we decant them, which is, which is moving them to other council properties. And we give them the ability though, to come back, um, to the new properties that have been built. And, you know, some residents take that opportunity to come back. Um, other people though are quite happy as to where they've been moved to, well, not moved to where, where they've been able to make the choice to move to. So, um, that's, that's one thing where we try and, uh, support our local residents. And also part of our drive. We talk about supporting vulnerable people all the time, but you know, we, we have a whole group of people that are really aspirational. Um, and actually, you know, as they leave university, as they get good jobs. And, and we are improving on that all at the time. You know, our schools, vast majority of our schools, about 97% are, are either good or outstanding. That's incredible. It is. It's, it's a good statistic. You know, I'd like to be able to say that we are nine, seven. Percent outstanding at some point, and it's really tough for our schools. So, so, you know, shout out to them, the work our teachers, um, and our education department and council do is, is phenomenal, um, in an area of, um, high deprivation, like b and, but we want to keep them young people. We, we want to keep those people that are moving into decent jobs. Um, we don't, they necessarily don't need to work in marketing data because they've great jobs all across London. Um, and we want them to be able to access. Uh, because of the skills and the, and the education they've got, we wanna be able to access those jobs all across London. But we want 'em to stand barking and ham. We want 'em to think barking and ham is a place they can make their home not just for the next five years or 10 years actually. They can bring a family up and they, to do that, we've got provide the infrastructure, whether that's be quality, high streets, as I say, whether that's be quality outdoor spaces. Whether that's just extra GP surgeries, which we have to work with in, in collaboration. So we've gotta make sure that they have the opportunity, um, to move into good quality new accommodation. Um, and that's what we are working hard to do, to get that mix right, of keeping our own, um, indigenous residents, if you like, uh, in, in the borough because they bring such, um, a, a breadth of sort of, um, history, um, and heritage, but also. Welcoming Londoners from, from every part of London and saying, listen, this is a destination point that you, you should be, you could be happy with, bring up a family. It will deliver all of what you want, and it'll meet Siddo: all of your Dominic Twomey: needs. Siddo: You know, it's interesting that you said that. I think. We we're clearly both early rise, as I've seen, what was it, 6:00 AM post you put up, uh, this morning, and it was about the, uh, great work that your local schools were doing. And I think it, it shows how much, uh, that means to you. I wonder if we could, um, I know you touched on, um, beacon Tree Estate, but just on the mass of child poverty, why do you think your borough is so uniquely and acutely affected by this issue? And what is the council doing beyond this job creation, um, and building facilitation of, uh, new affordable homes to tackle this issue that, uh, is a real priority for you and your administration? Dominic Twomey: You know, I'm gonna be really honest. It's hard to know why we spike so much more, um, than than other. London, um, or local boroughs actually in, you know, Essex, Kent, areas like that. It's, it's a really difficult one to understand why we should be so much worse. Um, look, we could talk about the industrial heritage, you know, where we were falls at one point in time, you know, um, was, uh, responsible, the figure escaped me, but was responsible for probably 20, 30,000 jobs. Um, and it was seen as that was the, the pathway through that your family. Some of my family worked in Forbes, that they worked in Forbes. Um, that was your career. Uh, so you wrote a passage from from the Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, then children work there. Your children work there. And that was the point. And that was gonna be forever. So I think ultimately when that change began to happen, it sort of probably caught the borough by surprise a little bit. Um, not, not just the council, but people because. Education wasn't as good then, uh, my education, I educated in the borough, uh, wasn't, uh, fantastic back then in, in the, uh, the, the 1980s. Um, and I think what happened was there wasn't a big push. On skills. There wasn't a big push on university, there wasn't a big push on, on sort of opening your horizons and ambitions. And so that rite of passage as, as, as you, you fairly put it, um, really meant that people were, were playing capture when Ford started to sort of over a quite, quite quick period of time sort of withdraw the amount of jobs and move work elsewhere. Uh, so I think. Even with significant churn of population, we are trying to change that figure as has proved incredibly difficult. Even when you look at the fact that we have, uh, our education has improved immeasurably probably over the last 10 to 15 years, um, that still does not have the impact. And, and part of that problem is our education system now is improving the lives of those young people for future generations. So hopefully that will remove their children, um, from that level of sort of poverty and deprivation. But this is why jobs and skills are now one of our, our biggest focuses alongside housing because we have to make sure that it's families, parents, um, sometimes single parents, um, have. The right skills now to get better quality jobs. Um, there, there are a, a, a whole range of issues, um, that people more qualified than I would be able to tell you about the reasons for child poverty or poverty itself, um, or deprivation. But clearly at the heart of that, um, are people working in low paid jobs? Um, they lead, uh, very stressful lives, not their own making. Often people work two jobs, um, and still are only just getting by in terms of their housing costs. You know, utility costs, um, you know, food, all of the basics that you need to live on. So we clearly need, um, to take that next, next step. Um, and we can't do it on our own, but, you [00:28:00] know, the mayor of London's doing great stuff and the GLA on on employment, um, and, and, and, you know, as part of the growth plan. So we, we will work, um, with all partners to make sure that, that we. Lift the level of skills, uh, that our, um, working age people, um, have because that's, that's one way increasing incomes to, to bring people out of, um, poverty and particularly child poverty. Because child poverty only comes because, you know, families haven't got enough income. Um, or outgoings, uh, are actually outstripping that. Indeed. Siddo: And indeed, I think it's worth noticing talk about skills in your borough. And it's not something that you are working really hard, uh, to achieve. It, it, it is not lost on me that your borough's not only outperforming on, um, certain education metrics in terms of what you said, that, um, they are, uh, the majority of the schools good or outstanding. Uh, but barking and D'S performance is also [00:29:00] exceptional in terms of its, um, planning efficiency. And the amount of, um, homes and new homes that you are delivering. Um, but bar and bedrooms also become a place a bit like, uh, other, uh, our London boroughs, uh, a hub for creatives. Can you tell us a bit more about your film quarter? Dominic Twomey: Uh, listen, creatives is, um, higher on our agenda. Um, the arts, um, creativity. Um, heritage. It's a huge part of play shaking, and actually I would argue as a, as a significant role in alleviating poverty, actually for, for families and particularly, um, children. So, you know, uh, actually I'm going to have a tour of the new film studios that are, uh, I'm afternoon. I'm going to have that tour. Um, and I've seen it at each sort of stage sort of delivery. Um, but it's so exciting, uh, that we have now opened. Um. Um, I say we, sorry, MBS Hackman, uh, uh, uh, capital have, have, [00:30:00] you know, invested and have opened that studio. The council certainly facilitated that roof. We did, we played that part. And I think that's all about collaboration. Um, and good partnerships, right? That people can't do things on their own. And it's that acknowledgement that working together gets things done quicker, um, and, and more seamlessly and. You know, they've already actually invested. They have a, a smaller film studio in barking called The Wolf, and that's actually been active for, um, a few years now. So they're, they're, they're delivering productions out of that and barking. And David itself has our own film office where we, we actually identify sites where, uh, people that perhaps aren't looking to, um, you know, need a huge, um, film studio or set to, to deliver on that. Oh, so you Oh, so you Siddo: have a kind of dedicated sales force. We do, we have a small team, Dominic Twomey: lots of boroughs, if you look, have have these sort of film offices where, where they're there to identify, um, sites within a borough that that might, you know, be, be right for sort of certain shows. So you might have a [00:31:00] weeks film in there, or you know, a fortnight. Um, but it's about covering all angles of the market because not everybody is an Apple or a Netflix or an Amazon that just will spend millions of pounds, but certainly could be absolutely. In these studios. I'm pretty sure that, um, we will see. Potentially all of those, um, you know, uh, organizations wanting to make films out of there. So it is, it's exciting. It, it is a good example of a number of things. It's a good example of, of people looking to invest in the borough. That's possibly one of the biggest single investments, you know, of 350 million pounds from the NBS Hackman group. Um, you know, who, who saw, um, you know, a, a vision that we had. Um, and also their, their vision, um, to create, you know. More film, um, more tv, et cetera. Um, and us facilitating that at the beginning was, was a great example of taking out, um, the, what's the word I'm looking for? Take, taking out the uncertainty of, of delivering, uh, film studios because. Sometimes planning can be a little bit of a barrier to these things. Um, just sometimes, Siddo: don't you? Dominic Twomey: Well, we, we, I can only talk for barking and dagenham. I, I, you know, I, I, I'm, I'm supportive of all of the planning changes that government are bringing in, and a lot of 'em sort of don't affect us because we haven't had those sort of planning issues. We, we, we are, um. You know, I don't often like, sort of catchphrase what, but we are very MBI embarking in, uh, and we have been for, I think Siddo: your, uh, fellow ward colleague council, Jack Haw would be proud of, uh, that pronouncement that you made there. And, and like I said, you. Barking Dagon is a powerhouse of progress from the amount of work that you're doing, the, the metrics that you are exceeding, the affordable homes that you're delivering. And I wonder things like the Barking Riverside Development Corporation, they've been real major driver of local growth. Um, how do you see this role of over, over the coming years and with these planning changes, would you like to see more development corporations or would you, like, what are you looking forward to most in the planning infrastructure Bill? Well, Dominic Twomey: firstly, I'm gonna steal your phrase, powerhouse of progress when I, uh, talk to people moving forward because, um, you know, that's, uh, you know, we'd like to be seen as that. We'd like to be seen, you know, how they're doing it and replicating what we've done. Um, in terms of sort of development corporations, I, I, I think there are so many different ways to, to deliver, um, progress, uh, to deliver. Excellent regeneration. Not just housing, but in other ways. I mean, you know, we look, we look at the development corporation that's been announced recently for the Pedestrianization of Oxford Street Project Sake. I think actually, you know, hugely supportive of that, um, of, of the policy to do that. Um, you know, and whilst that's a way of delivering fantastic change, and, and I would argue much needed change for a whole, you know, read a whole, uh, plethora of [00:34:00] reasons. I think for us, we've got, um, a proven track record, um, of delivery. So I, I, I think we are, we are almost ready to go. We are almost, um, a development corporation in our own right. Um, we've delivered the homes, we've delivered the infrastructure. We've worked incredibly well with a range of partners. Um, we acknowledge that what we've actually delivered, we wouldn't have been able to deliver on our own. We wouldn't have been able to deliver that significant number. Of affordable housing without grant from the mound. Um, so that just shows when you, you work, um, with partners, you get results. We also work with, um, uh, BRL part of a, a development corporation, uh, barking Riverside Limited. Sorry for those that aren't aware of that. And they've got fantastic, you know, ambitions that match our own. Mm-hmm. Um, and we work with them to make sure that, you know. When they had issues, for example, trying to get the train station up and running, we worked with them. [00:35:00] TFL, we all worked together, you know, network Rail came into it. So, you know, working with through those, um, barriers to growth, um, is really important. And you, and if you think you can do it on your own. You can't, it will or you can be, it'll take much longer if you've got the finance, um, you know, 'cause there are so many hurdles to get over to deliver. We're seeing a little bit of that, um, you know, be park. So we want to bring the train station to be park. And I know that, um, you know, we, we worked hard as a counter over a number of years. I know that our MP there, Margaret Beane is working very hard. Um, government are very congratulations Siddo: by the way. Very proud of Margaret, as well as national to scanner, uh, who, who returned as the reflected mps for barking day. Dominic Twomey: Absolutely barking. Actually, I probably can't let it go. Um, you know, we also have probably one 16th of jazz Atwell who's 'cause of boundary changes, has our all up there in chat. So, you know, we, we've got, you know, three brand new sort of mps, um, you know, representing, you know, clearly Nele, clearly Margaret representing the bulk of our. Um, uh, borough. Um, and it's important, as I say, working with them to try and deliver those changes. Um, and we are all very much hoping that, uh, that the station at Bean Park will, uh, come at some point in the near future. I think it will, um, because I know there's, there's a will to do that at every level now and you know what happens, you know, you mentioned earlier on about me in my finance role. Finance across the piece, um, is, is massively difficult from from government to the mayor's office, uh, to, to boroughs up and down the land. And what, what I see, um, embarking and sometimes is though that, um, and this is strange coming possibly from, from a finance, uh, cabinet member, is that sometimes the money you can get obsessed on the money. Um, and it can stop sometimes stifle creativity or slow it down. Um, and I've seen that at, at that micro level within the council where people just say, we've gotta save money. And I say, but that's a good idea you had. And although we might have had to invest a million pound in it in three years, five years, seven years, that might save us four or five times that amount of money. So it's, it's, it's a tricky balancing act to, I, I as much as anyone understand delivering balanced budgets because we've had to use a significant amount of reserves. Over the last 10 years, um, to balance budgets because of austerity. But equally it's important that it's not all money, money, money. It's gotta be about people. 'cause everything we do regeneration wise, in fact, everything we do is about our people and our place. And I say our people. It's not just people that here now our people are Londoners. Our people are people that want to come here actually, uh, and take advantage of the, the fantastic, uh, stuff that we've got going on. Siddo: Well indeed. And I think, um, on that point, and I know that it was recently in the news about the city corporation and their plans, uh, withdrawn plans, um, to, invest in the markets up there in your borough. I wonder if you could share some of your reflections on that and what the council was hoping to do in response. Dominic Twomey: Yeah, look, I mean, we, we've worked really closely with the city for a number of years. 'cause you can imagine they bought the site, you know, they invested, they remediated. We had that journey through planning. Um, it was all going really well. Um, but I understand viability issues as much as anyone, uh, and, and from setting a budget to deliver something and then you see cost delivery crisis. Kick in, you know, inflationary rising, particularly in construction, et cetera. So I can only say that, you know, that it's really been difficult for them. That has obviously left, you know, it, it's, it was a, a, a huge investment. Um, it would've, uh, delivered, um, great things. It would've made better use of, uh, of the Thames, you know, of, as I talked earlier about, it's not just about rail or road, it is about sort of, you know, river as well. Uh. It would've worked, um, side by side by, you know, developments for the, the Freeport, the thas, Freeport, um, and the thas ES three, which are key drivers for us as well, partners that, that we are working with. Um, and, and we, we are seeing, um, new investment opportunities come, particularly from the Freeport, but that 10 wider piece which could bring. Such significant jobs and skills to a place like Park and Ham. But in terms of that, because there's this, do you know, I, I think to myself, I, I don't worry about things I can't control. We just have to look at an opportunity to present itself. The city saw an opportunity then. Mm-hmm. Uh, them years ago and, and, and they move forward on that. So others will see an opportunity there. And, and we are gonna try and work really closely with the city. To make sure that whatever they do with [00:40:00] it, um, it, it will bring something just as good as the market. Although the markets would've been fantastic, right? It would've been iconic to bring them to, well, to bring two of the three markets together immediately, and then get the third market there further down the line. But, so, but we are looking for opportunities that, the point for me is what we can't do is, is, is, or what the city can't do, ideally, is sit on that site. What we've got to do is, is, is all work together, move forward and move forward on it. So, you know, there are people out there that I'm sure would equally see new opportunities on there. You know, we, we, we are crying out for, for in industrial opportunities. We are crying out for new technology. We are crying out for, uh, new clean up, greener businesses. You know, wherever we look at sort of solar panels, we've got huge, um. Retrofitting ambition for our, um, own council. Stock has had lots of other boroughs that sort of, you know, uh, are very close to us so that we, you know, there are opportunities whether we are talking, you know, modular, construction, all of these places need factories. They need sort of stuff to deliver this type of technology. So neighboring the, the old 10, uh, sorry, the foresight that we've been talking about, you know, that's, that could be a real, um. Creative, um, industry in terms of sort of delivering the new inventive industrial, um, age to bargain and data? Siddo: Well, I certainly, certainly hope so, and I think on your, uh, partnership working with lots across the industry, um, but also the generation plans that you have some tion plans, I wonder on the first and moving forward, I know the BE first is going quite non significant change. Perhaps you could, uh, share some of your insights into how it is changing and how do you see B first new direction, with your vision for the buyer over the next 10 years? Dominic Twomey: I would say it has had, change, um, but it's evolved over the years. and, you know, I, I've always seen be first as the entrepreneurial, side, of. You know, um, the council as it were, so again, a hundred percent shareholder, but it's own board, um, you know, own leadership it had when it was formed. Um, and that was really important because what we wanted it to be, we wanted it to be an entity that was able to get out there in the marketplace, um, and do things that we as a account couldn't do. Yes. It, it had the planning side of it, which is, um, and, and I think you plugged this earlier, which was great, fantastic number one in the country. Um, takes a lot of hard work to get into to that place and, and dedicate expertise Siddo: the leadership. Yeah. Dominic Twomey: It's, you know, and, and the people working within now, um, have, have, have managed to sort of deliver that. We've got like Caroline harper. But is now the, the interim md, um, who, who has delivered lots of that planning changes, has worked on our local plan, um, and, and has really moved things forward in that area. She, she now, um, has got, um, a vision and, and she's got, um, a, a way that we want to work moving forwards where they've always been entrepreneurial. It, but actually they've been able to rely to some extent on us as a council. We have funded a significant part of, um, the development there. And now we are in a position where we can't, uh, afford to sort of borrow, uh, to continue that sort of journey we're on. So we, we now have, um, task B first to, to, to change, which they're able to do quicker than the council is able to do. To work with, um, to work more with attracting external investment into the borough. Not, not just, um, land developers who, who are gonna actually sort of build things. 'cause we've had that for a while, but actually people that might wanna join venture with us. We are looking, you know, at, um, pension funds, we, you know, we are talking about large scale investors, um, from outside of, of the property market who want to get just a, a nice steady return on investment. Um, and. It, it needed that change because probably there was an overreliance on our pipeline, uh, the council's pipeline and what we've now sort of not, not been able to do, that they have to change and grow. It couldn't, it was going along that same journey wouldn't have worked because actually our pipeline would've ended and they would've just been in the place going, okay, so what do we do now? Um, so, so that, so we, we recognize that. They recognize that as well. Of the staff within B first. Um, and as I say this, this stage two is an evolution. Um, but it, it's something that was coming because of, of the economy and I'm really confident that to continue to, to do that, um, regeneration journey, we need to attract. Partners, partners that have our own values, uh, both at a social level, but uh, um, you know, at an architectural level. So it's gotta be good quality materials. It's gotta be in keeping with the area. It's gotta have a nod to our history. Just like, for example, Peabody are doing down sort of bean park with heritage trails, recognizing the legacy, um, of our trade unions, you know, in Forbes. Uh, absolutely. So, yeah, so there's a whole piece around it, but I don't think it's changed, um, a million miles from where it was. It's just now, um, needing some different skills and some d different impetus in there to make sure that we work with the correct partners and the correct investors. Absolutely. Siddo: Thank you. It is extraordinary, really. I mean, you often read about barking in diagonal because of, um, whether it is events, but the most, um, uh, act I often have about the bar is how much, how many homes you're delivering, um, and the ambition that the council has to close. I have two questions really. we've heard a lot about your acceleration in house building or the investment that you've had. You've been, uh, ed for a decade now, you're in your first year. Um, as, as leader, what's really attracting talent to an artist on the bar like yours and what excites you about walking Down's future? Dominic Twomey: Wow, they're big, big questions to finish on. I mean, do you know, as an out London borough, it, it, it is hard to attract talent? Um, both within the council particularly, um, because, you know, like all things in life, uh, we all need to earn and income to make things worthwhile. Attracting talent within the council and within B First and those organizations, uh, is, is all about spelling out that vision. Go, you know, we have to work harder, I believe, than, than, uh, perhaps maybe other London, inner London boroughs to, to, to attract the right sort of people because we'll never compete on a financial level, but where we can compete on the vision that we have, the legacy that we want to leave, that everyone's part of. Uh, you know, I always say sometimes it sounds corny, but I, I want every work, every person in the council. Uh, no matter what job they do, because, you know, I value all of our staff equally from, from, you know, the very frontline people that are our ambassadors and do a fantastic day to day job. Because with all of this regeneration and with all of this ambition, if actually we don't get the basics right, if, if we can't keep streets clean, if we can't keep neighborhoods free about social behavior, and if we can't, you know, do all of those things, which is a real battle. Which is a real battle life. The 14 years of a broken economy. And you know, there are, there are issues, uh, across the piece with, with areas like that. It's not all come to barking. It's an amazing place. It's clean, it's tidy, it's this, in some areas it isn't, and we need to sort of improve that, but it's about sharing that, that vision and, and, and telling people we have got huge opportunity. There are very few places possibly in the country that have got the opportunity to deliver. Such, um, meaningful change to people's lives. Um, and I think you said, um, a little bit in the beginning today about just, just making a difference, making a bit of a difference, um, to people because that's so important and that's what I, I've always been in here for and that's what I want anybody that's part of barking and to do as well. So whether that's external investments, whether that's people that talent we attract to, to the borough, say, listen. You've gotta have, um, our values. You've gotta look at where we want to go and what we want to do. Um, and do you know people buy into that because actually people wanna make a change, um, across all, all levels. External people want to come in and say, okay, we think we can make a change here for you. So, um, attracting talent comes by. Really selling opportunity, really selling a vision. Um, and the vision's not all about. Um, you know, the, the huge ambition and aspirations one side of it, it's about saying to people, come and help us, come and help us improve the lives of four in 10 children that, uh, you know, live, uh, on the outskirts of one of the greatest, if not the greatest cities in the world. Absolutely. With all of the opportunities that you've got, all of the culture. All of the jobs, all, all of the, the fantastic, um, spaces that, that exist in London. So we say to people, come and help us change their lives for the better. Um, I've now forgotten your second question. Siddo: Well, I think you, you pretty much answered it. It was what your vision was, what excites you about the next few years, and I think you certainly captured that. And, you know, as a, uh, long boy myself, um, uh, born to a single mom, um, I certainly understand and, and that point around opportunity resonates with me. Although I'm gonna stick to my roots, I think, for a lot of your residents. Um, but the leadership that you are showing, uh, it is certainly a place that people can make their home and they can certainly visit. I know that there is opportunity there, so, um, I'd like to thank you for the time, um, counselor. Uh, and that was Council Dominic Chui, the leader of the council steering bar and dLAN from his fishing village roots and Ford Factory heyday into the future of 50,000 new homes, 20,000 new jobs, restoring dignity for a number of people, but also new skills over the next decade. And with the film Studio quarter sparking a creative boom. This as London boroughs blending growth with grits. So thank you for listening to The Better Faces podcast. Uh, we can subscribe and we'll catch you in our next deep dive into London's suburban story. Amazing. Thanks very much for having me.