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So welcome

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to our weekly livestream recording of the magazine,

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a podcast series

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devoted to acquisition entrepreneurs, search funds and hold co builders.

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This week,

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we're diving right into the first of our interviews

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with emerging searches and established acquirers,

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and we're thrilled to have Florian Willis join us today.

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Florian leads Hamburg Ventures, which are currently

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in the process of acquiring a business, but his path here has been fascinating.

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After nearly a decade

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helping launch iconic products like the iPhone and Apple Music,

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he's managed hundreds of millions in revenue and spent another decade then

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building and scaling startups, culminating in selling his own e-commerce venture.

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And now he's applying that wealth of experience and innovation in digitization

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to the world of entrepreneurship through acquisitions.

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So, Florian, welcome to the show.

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Thank you.

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Thanks a lot for having me.

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It's an absolute pleasure.

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Thank you for finding the time in your busy schedule

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to come and tell us about your journey and share that with our listeners.

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So I want to get started, if we can, with your background

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and if you can give us a bit of a whistle stop tour of your path to here.

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I mentioned there that you were with Apple during its period of explosive growth,

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and then you also had a significant time spent in the startup world.

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So you've seen both sides of the equation.

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But can you walk us through your journey and how these distinct experiences

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from like hypergrowth corporate to the scrappy

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startup have helped shape the skills you bring to the ETF world?

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Yeah.

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So so as you as you said, I was at Apple almost ten years before that.

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I was actually also kind of in technology and

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marketing technology really it was search engines.

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So the other big innovation, I guess really before

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I that kind of changed the way

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we could do business and promote our businesses and,

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and yeah, I guess some,

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you know, often I get the question about why did you leave Apple?

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Because I was doing quite well.

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I had a really great job, which I call the best job in the world

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like this and working for Apple Music.

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But the thing is that I wanted

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to to also be entrepreneurial and take all the decisions

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in big companies or do you know, huge things.

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But you do a kind of small thing

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of of the huge things and decisions take very long, etc..

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So then going into the entrepreneurial world did give me all of

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all of this exposure that I wanted

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and I was able to learn so much that I wasn't

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able to learn even though I was managing huge budgets

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and huge projects with insane amounts of users, etc..

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Actually, you know, being able to set your own price to,

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to design the packaging to even build a website for your own business,

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you learn so many things that,

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that yeah, were really incremental, I would say.

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And to your question, I guess that's really what I find

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so valuable now with Etta and why I feel like I'm really

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in a good position having seen these sort of,

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you know, how you want it to look eventually,

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but also the little scrappy stuff that you need

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to do in the beginning to get to things.

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So so that combination I think, has been really useful.

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Yeah, I think

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being able to see

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the the activity of doing

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small bits of huge things and then the other side of the coin

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of learning by doing of just everything rests on your shoulders

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and you have to get involved in the stuff

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that perhaps in a corporation you can delegate.

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You've clearly, though, chosen the latter because Etta is often

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seen as the, you know, the other roll your sleeves up and get stuck

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in equivalent to the startup world.

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I'm interested by your background because in our preamble

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you've mentioned that you come from a family of innovators.

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How did that go into your your your path here?

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And, you know, I think that really.

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So my grandfather was a

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you know, what I call him an inventor, really mechanical engineer.

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We would say nowadays.

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And and he worked in the railway industry

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and had some big patents that my father then built a business

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that was basically a delivery service, was the first bike

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courier in Europe, very successful in Germany. And

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it's really

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quite interesting because he passed away in 92.

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So having been here to see, you know, what the well became, but

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when you think about what Uber

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is and Uber eats and all that,

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it was kind of the same system that he was using.

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He was it was very innovative at that time to have your drivers

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be contractors and not be full time employees.

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That's how he managed to scale that business.

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And that was in the eighties and nineties.

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So, you know, we don't reinvent anything I guess and

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but yeah, all that to say that

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I do think that when you have that in your family

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it leaves a mark and it leaves this just this sort of you see what's

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what it could be like to have your own business

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and to make the decisions and to be creative and really so many ways.

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And that's what it did with me.

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And I bring it from very young age.

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I always said I wanted to be an inventor.

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And really what I understand now, what that means is

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I wanted to be an entrepreneur.

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I wanted to create things for people to to use or to to like, you know,

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which was the world that you were around.

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And I guess that felt very familiar to you as you were kind of perhaps

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hearing of your father's stories of building the business

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and going through the the struggle

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and the hustle of bringing something, you know, to life, if you will.

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So there is a correlation amongst successful search acquisition

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entrepreneurs who have come from families of entrepreneurship and innovation.

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So you're not alone there.

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But what specifically brought you to this

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wonderful new path of of ETA, then what?

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Having done the corporate and done the starting from scratch,

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what has attracted you to to buying And yeah that's

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I think really interesting and sort of

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I guess really this big boom of of ETA that we see now,

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at least it feels like that from the inside because suddenly you see it

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everywhere, because it's definitely a boom now, but still a long way to go.

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Boom echoes the venture boom, for example, that Exactly.

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But so this is exactly what I was going to say.

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So I was

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at Apple always very interested in, you know, innovation.

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Even within Apple, I worked in the App Store very early on, for example.

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So I was working with loads of startups there, really innovative

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revenue models as well and and stuff like that.

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So I was always into what is this, you know, what is the new thing

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to do in businesses and all of that. But

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and that was also a reason why it, why I then left

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and wanted to do my own thing and work with startups, etc..

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However, all of that was always the startup world.

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It was always me, see, it was always Angel, right?

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And I kind of was under the impression that that was the two option.

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There were either you go corporate or you build your own startup.

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And and I'm like, suddenly,

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excuse me, that's what the system would like you to believe.

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You know, the. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

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And and so as a then suddenly discovered that

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you know it it was possible to buy someone else's business

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that had a foundation that was profitable already

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and that then you could you could innovate from there.

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That really suited my situation at that moment much more.

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I still think that, you know, for some people,

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and especially when you're younger, startups make a lot of sense.

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And if you want hypergrowth, if you think you want to be a billionaire,

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all of that, it's probably great to do startups.

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But it doesn't matter how often we we tell people.

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But the success in the startup world is so small,

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the percentage of people that managed to to make a success of their business

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a success worth talking about at least.

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And and so it's incredibly hard.

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And so then having this middle ground as a person, I've got two, two young

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children now, you know, I'm not I'm not 25 anymore.

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So and actually, for me, it is a really good middle ground

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to think I can take a successful business that has done well.

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But in most of the cases, you know,

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systems and and and loads of things are quite

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old in the businesses that I look at.

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And I can go in there with my experience and make it more modern and

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and suddenly be on on a really great scale

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while being independent because that, that was always the thing, right?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Well, let's get into that independent shall we.

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Let's get into,

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you know, the current activity with Hamburg Ventures

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and particularly the thesis that you have, seems that you are looking

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at targets through the lenses of innovation and digitization.

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So could you unpack that for us?

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What does that practically look like

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when you're evaluating your potential acquisition targets?

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Yeah, the reason I,

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I worked in that way is that being in this world of ETA,

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now I see who's around me and a lot of people for now,

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I mean that there's more and more sort of

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unconventional backgrounds as well that come in.

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But what I see a lot

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is people that have a finance

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background, people that have a management consulting background.

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And I think it's quite obvious what these people

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can bring to a small business that gets get sold.

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They have very clear skills that are applicable to

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almost every business really.

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So so I completely understand that my, my background is just different.

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I'm an operator, I've got marketing, I've got this innovation and digitization

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background. So that's what I know.

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And so that's also how

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I look at any company that I look at and really in practice, what that means.

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It is, it's

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I can't really sort of generalize, but, but really

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what it means is that I very quickly usually when I talk to a to an owner,

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I very quickly find out whether I think there's opportunities

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that I can unlock or not and that that is important to me.

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I don't just want to buy a business because the business is great,

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but I don't really know what I'll do in it.

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I need to be able straight away to have a vision

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and see like, this thing you can do with a product.

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He has some growth opportunities.

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I know how to unlock those and all of that.

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So so that's what I mean when I say I look at it in,

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in terms of innovation and digitization and

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these are actually things

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which is great because the XP guys and girls

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are probably looking at it from a financial engineering

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as a first principle,

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whereas you'll wake working from the, the other angle, I think,

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which they end up in the same place, but you're practically looking

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at the operation, the product that where, where you can

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tangibly drive value creation in order to do, in order

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for that to play out in the spreadsheet and in the, you know, the PNL.

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Yeah.

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And actually, no,

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sorry, go ahead.

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I guess what I was going to say, though, I do need

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also to

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I needed to learn a lot of the more financial things, etc.

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and I'm obviously not at all at the level where a lot of others are

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because it's just not my background.

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But like you say, there is actually this whole other angle

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that is really relevant and to talk to, to, you know,

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something that might come up a bit more in this conversation, owners

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actually really connect with that because a lot of these owners

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they are do is they have built a business not because they've got a business degree

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or something.

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They've just done their product and it became big

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and now they make a couple of million with it and and that's that.

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But they just know the day to day stuff.

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They usually not that

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you know, educated financially, etc..

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So when I come in I tell them about like, look,

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we can grow the business here or we should do marketing this way.

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They usually,

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while they

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don't always, you know, they, they don't always know how to do it

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themselves, they often felt like, yes, that that's what we want.

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That's exactly what we were trying to achieve all this time, etc..

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So it's quite, quite good for connection.

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Absolutely.

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Well, the product and the customers in the market,

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they're all tangible to the owner, to the seller,

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you know, that's what they've lived and breathed.

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You know, it's perhaps less abstract than the spreadsheets are.

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You know, oftentimes these are these are practical people

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that delegate the financial alchemy to to to someone else.

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And so have you found that it's helped you resonate and connect and

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actually get more quickly to meaningful, trust based relationships with

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these sellers where you have connected on product and market?

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Yes. No, exactly that.

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That's exactly what I mean.

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It we we speak the same language and I've even been told more than once

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that, it's nice to be talking to someone about something else than the numbers

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because I asked some things about the numbers, some basics.

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But like I say, for me it's not actually if there's a healthy EBIDTA and,

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and I think, you know, my costs and maybe some costs that I want to

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build into the business will work out, then I'm kind of fine with the finances.

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Then I'm like, okay, we'll figure that out.

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I need to know

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that I can grow the business that, that that's what I care about.

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Yeah.

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And the growth comes through serving customers very well

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with excellent products in, in markets where there's an opportunity to grow like

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that or look after numbers.

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If you get that bit right, one would hope.

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But yeah, great.

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Well, so what's your search journey been like up to this point?

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We'll probably get in a second into your current sort of.

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I mean, we know that you're knee deep in a deal

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at the moment and I don't want you to talk too much to that while it's in motion.

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But what's the journey been like?

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You start searching.

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How has the process gone up to now?

00:15:01:23 - 00:15:04:23
Yeah, so I actually well,

00:15:04:28 - 00:15:07:28
to say upfront, I think I'm

00:15:08:02 - 00:15:11:24
I'm maybe a bit slower and then then some

00:15:11:27 - 00:15:16:09
it is almost by design and I just know how I function and there's

00:15:16:09 - 00:15:21:16
no I need to understand things properly to feel comfortable doing them.

00:15:21:16 - 00:15:22:17
That's true in business.

00:15:22:17 - 00:15:25:14
It's also true in this completely new process for me.

00:15:25:14 - 00:15:31:21
So when I decided, when I discovered a search or ETA, I actually took about

00:15:31:21 - 00:15:36:20
three months where I said, okay, that was up to basically January 24.

00:15:36:28 - 00:15:41:06
I said, This month I will just spend learning.

00:15:41:06 - 00:15:45:21
I will just look, read, you know, look at all the things that I can find

00:15:45:21 - 00:15:49:15
and just educate myself so that then I am confident

00:15:49:15 - 00:15:55:13
that I can talk to an owner and then kind of look semi-serious

00:15:55:16 - 00:15:57:17
and so that's what I did.

00:15:57:17 - 00:16:01:14
And, and then in January 24, I started searching.

00:16:01:17 - 00:16:05:23
Now that's already, you know, scarily

00:16:05:26 - 00:16:06:23
long.

00:16:06:23 - 00:16:07:27
Look at the calendar.

00:16:07:27 - 00:16:10:22
Now it's 15 months of search so far. Yeah.

00:16:10:22 - 00:16:13:22
Not just the number that you say. Thank you.

00:16:13:30 - 00:16:19:20
I it's something I try not to think about because I actually quite quickly

00:16:19:23 - 00:16:23:13
got into contact with two deals,

00:16:23:15 - 00:16:27:08
about 3 to 3, four months in.

00:16:27:11 - 00:16:30:25
I was talking to two different businesses

00:16:30:27 - 00:16:33:15
that became pretty serious.

00:16:33:15 - 00:16:36:14
And with both of them I was

00:16:36:14 - 00:16:39:17
actually talking very deeply about terms about pricing.

00:16:39:17 - 00:16:43:28
We we were in agreement, so we were very close to moving forward

00:16:43:31 - 00:16:45:04
into the next step.

00:16:45:04 - 00:16:50:03
And both of those then it kind of fell through within the same week.

00:16:50:05 - 00:16:57:04
And in September 24, that was and

00:16:57:07 - 00:17:00:06
that was kind of hard. But

00:17:00:06 - 00:17:04:06
so just to just explain, they both were dipping in revenue.

00:17:04:06 - 00:17:10:05
One lost a big client and then decided that he wanted to gain that revenue again

00:17:10:05 - 00:17:14:00
so that he could actually get to the price that he was asking for.

00:17:14:02 - 00:17:15:02
So he left.

00:17:15:02 - 00:17:17:28
The other person just was sticking with that price.

00:17:17:28 - 00:17:20:29
And I was saying, I can't justify that.

00:17:20:29 - 00:17:25:04
That price, while your revenue is is is decreasing.

00:17:25:07 - 00:17:29:11
And so we we agreed not to go forward.

00:17:29:13 - 00:17:31:32
And that was really hard,

00:17:31:32 - 00:17:34:14
but it actually was not as hard as I expected.

00:17:34:14 - 00:17:36:31
And I think part of that was that I had heard this story

00:17:36:31 - 00:17:40:05
so many times before from others such as saying like,

00:17:40:13 - 00:17:45:03
I had X amount of deals for few weeks before I managed to close my deal.

00:17:45:06 - 00:17:50:12
And and I, I was I guess I was hoping while I was in those

00:17:50:19 - 00:17:54:03
that I would be able to close something within, you know, less than a year.

00:17:54:06 - 00:17:58:01
But I always also saw the statistics from the Stanford study

00:17:58:01 - 00:18:01:27
and all of that that that say that you know, the average takes,

00:18:01:30 - 00:18:06:06
I don't know one and a half years or between one and two years

00:18:06:09 - 00:18:09:02
is not uncommon.

00:18:09:02 - 00:18:13:23
And so then I thought, okay, well, that's how it is.

00:18:13:26 - 00:18:17:12
I then managed to get find another deal, the one that I'm in right now,

00:18:17:18 - 00:18:23:00
quite quickly after the one that I think in October, that was 24.

00:18:23:02 - 00:18:28:24
But you know, then starts this whole dance that it it just takes ages.

00:18:28:24 - 00:18:30:05
Everything takes ages.

00:18:30:05 - 00:18:34:10
And especially in the beginning when sellers don't like completely trust you,

00:18:34:15 - 00:18:37:19
they own this process, but they've spoken to other people so much

00:18:37:19 - 00:18:41:19
and they just don't really,

00:18:41:22 - 00:18:43:26
you know, answer quickly.

00:18:43:26 - 00:18:47:06
Sometimes I needed two weeks to get answers anyways,

00:18:47:06 - 00:18:52:08
so that all meant that we got to we signed heads of terms

00:18:52:08 - 00:18:56:15
in early January 25

00:18:56:18 - 00:19:02:05
and we wanted to close yesterday and

00:19:02:07 - 00:19:03:20
unfortunately

00:19:03:20 - 00:19:07:02
I had a lender that was going to support the deal

00:19:07:02 - 00:19:12:01
and they they, you know, fell through in February.

00:19:12:04 - 00:19:16:23
And so now I'm I'm looking for kind of,

00:19:16:23 - 00:19:22:04
yeah, either restructuring or finding another lender for this deal.

00:19:22:07 - 00:19:24:19
So that's that's my journey up and down.

00:19:24:19 - 00:19:25:12
Yeah.

00:19:25:12 - 00:19:29:13
You've had your fair share of adversity along there on the road, but like you say,

00:19:29:15 - 00:19:33:13
quite comparable to many others in terms of trying to align

00:19:33:13 - 00:19:37:07
all of the planets in order to make the deal come to fruition

00:19:37:10 - 00:19:40:14
exactly as to hear that you weren't thrown off your stride

00:19:40:14 - 00:19:43:13
and that it didn't destroy your confidence in proceeding

00:19:43:13 - 00:19:45:12
and finding the next opportunity like that.

00:19:45:12 - 00:19:49:33
Those two must have been a pretty sad week to see both of them go up in smoke.

00:19:49:33 - 00:19:52:22
But you know what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

00:19:52:22 - 00:19:55:28
And as I always say, it's off until it's on.

00:19:55:31 - 00:19:57:07
And, you know,

00:19:57:07 - 00:20:00:18
there's just like conceiving children and bringing them into the world.

00:20:00:18 - 00:20:05:08
You know, there's so many things that have to go right in order for, you know,

00:20:05:11 - 00:20:07:11
the process to complete.

00:20:07:11 - 00:20:10:08
So, yeah, glad that you've got one underway,

00:20:10:08 - 00:20:15:21
but without speaking too much to anything that's going to be confidential,

00:20:15:23 - 00:20:19:24
perhaps you could speak to, you know, what particularly happened with the lender.

00:20:19:27 - 00:20:21:24
You know, you mentioned that they withdrew.

00:20:21:24 - 00:20:24:23
Was that their change of appetite or is it

00:20:24:23 - 00:20:28:12
something to do with their availability of funds?

00:20:28:15 - 00:20:31:02
It's one of these things I guess we'll never know.

00:20:31:02 - 00:20:37:00
But one interesting thing that happened was that

00:20:37:03 - 00:20:39:22
just about a week or so before,

00:20:39:22 - 00:20:43:27
they said that they didn't have too much appetite anymore,

00:20:43:30 - 00:20:48:05
the manager within the lender who had been,

00:20:48:08 - 00:20:52:24
you know, advocating for my deal, as you know, they have the people

00:20:52:24 - 00:20:57:13
that look at your deal initially and they didn't take it to a voluntary.

00:20:57:16 - 00:20:57:31
Exactly.

00:20:57:31 - 00:21:01:13
Group of people that that will agree altogether whether you do it or not.

00:21:01:16 - 00:21:05:24
And and this guy I had spoken with him on the phone once

00:21:05:24 - 00:21:08:30
and he said that he was actually had some of the products

00:21:08:30 - 00:21:13:26
that this company sells and which it's quite an

00:21:13:29 - 00:21:17:10
I mean, it's a consumer product and and

00:21:17:12 - 00:21:18:09
fairly specific.

00:21:18:09 - 00:21:24:00
So so I think that there might have been that that got his interest in it

00:21:24:00 - 00:21:27:13
and wanting to to champion it and

00:21:27:16 - 00:21:30:14
but then he left the company

00:21:30:14 - 00:21:34:12
and when I heard that news, I said to my debt

00:21:34:12 - 00:21:38:04
broker like, that feels like this is not going to be good.

00:21:38:06 - 00:21:39:17
And sure enough,

00:21:39:17 - 00:21:43:01
a week later I was informed that they weren't interested any more.

00:21:43:04 - 00:21:48:00
So I don't know if that would ever work, if it would ever have gone to the end.

00:21:48:03 - 00:21:52:14
But ultimately what they say is

00:21:52:17 - 00:21:55:11
they don't like me to see particularly never.

00:21:55:11 - 00:21:58:25
But you know, they were still considering this

00:21:58:28 - 00:22:02:02
this business, what they may

00:22:02:02 - 00:22:05:02
mainly concerned about is,

00:22:05:03 - 00:22:06:22
as they call it, infrastructure.

00:22:06:22 - 00:22:08:28
There isn't many systems in place.

00:22:08:28 - 00:22:12:28
There isn't really second tier management yet, even though I

00:22:12:31 - 00:22:15:29
the sellers are not leaving, they are staying.

00:22:15:29 - 00:22:19:17
But the the the lenders are concerned about that.

00:22:19:20 - 00:22:22:20
And so it's kind of standard stuff.

00:22:22:24 - 00:22:25:13
You speak to the side of the business because

00:22:25:13 - 00:22:28:26
it'd be interesting to sort of correlate in terms of size

00:22:28:29 - 00:22:32:00
to the half a million or something in terms of its revenues

00:22:32:00 - 00:22:36:26
or along those lines like because it sounds to me like the lender

00:22:36:28 - 00:22:40:19
hasn't necessarily calibrated to what you're bringing to the table

00:22:40:19 - 00:22:42:19
in terms of your willingness to operate the company

00:22:42:19 - 00:22:45:20
and the fact that you want to improve the systems to generate upside.

00:22:45:24 - 00:22:46:28
Exactly.

00:22:46:28 - 00:22:50:04
So everything that I've named are the opportunities

00:22:50:06 - 00:22:51:30
and and if they want that

00:22:51:30 - 00:22:54:13
and I don't even know why they would consider the business.

00:22:54:13 - 00:22:56:16
Yeah, that goes to what I was saying earlier.

00:22:56:16 - 00:22:58:04
I only am interested in businesses

00:22:58:04 - 00:23:01:11
where I see opportunities where I can make a difference on day one.

00:23:01:11 - 00:23:04:03
Right. So. But is it a super

00:23:04:06 - 00:23:05:31
I'm not a psychiatrist.

00:23:05:31 - 00:23:09:03
It's it's still about 2 million in revenue.

00:23:09:06 - 00:23:13:08
And so yeah

00:23:13:11 - 00:23:16:11
not huge revenue It's got very good margins though

00:23:16:17 - 00:23:20:09
so so yeah that that makes it very interesting.

00:23:20:11 - 00:23:26:17
And is this Ed is this lender familiar with the acquisition entrepreneurship Yes.

00:23:26:17 - 00:23:27:05
Paradigm.

00:23:27:05 - 00:23:29:29
I mean if they get on other deals like this.

00:23:29:29 - 00:23:30:31
Yeah. Yeah they are.

00:23:30:31 - 00:23:33:18
They are a known known entity in this world.

00:23:33:18 - 00:23:37:23
But you know, I knew when I was going into it that all of them

00:23:37:27 - 00:23:41:26
the, the four or five or six that we all know in the UK

00:23:41:29 - 00:23:47:13
and they all want B-to-B businesses, they want top quality or and all of that

00:23:47:22 - 00:23:51:07
And this type of company is just not in that world.

00:23:51:10 - 00:23:52:13
But I want to

00:23:52:13 - 00:23:56:01
kind of mention one thing that I think is quite important for me actually.

00:23:56:09 - 00:23:59:19
Even though they fell through again,

00:23:59:22 - 00:24:01:22
I actually am kind of thankful to them

00:24:01:22 - 00:24:04:24
because I don't think that I would have gotten where I am

00:24:04:24 - 00:24:07:27
with the sellers if it hadn't been

00:24:07:27 - 00:24:12:00
if I didn't have a lender that was seriously looking at the deal

00:24:12:06 - 00:24:16:26
and to say, Look, I've got a lender, let's do the heads of terms, etc..

00:24:16:29 - 00:24:20:31
Now, you know, I now need to figure it out and etc..

00:24:20:31 - 00:24:25:22
But I think we we can find a solution. And

00:24:25:25 - 00:24:28:26
so, yeah, it's again, it's so interesting, like even

00:24:28:27 - 00:24:34:09
even things that kind of don't go your way sometimes are actually good, like

00:24:34:09 - 00:24:37:10
things that helped you in a different way than you maybe expected.

00:24:37:10 - 00:24:38:13
Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:38:13 - 00:24:42:06
I'd love to hear a bit more about You mentioned you went via a debt broker.

00:24:42:08 - 00:24:46:25
How have you found that experience?

00:24:46:28 - 00:24:47:21
let's go to that.

00:24:47:21 - 00:24:50:21
It's an episode of its own.

00:24:50:26 - 00:24:53:23
And in a nutshell,

00:24:53:23 - 00:24:57:22
I've had a lot of bad experiences with debt brokers in general.

00:24:57:22 - 00:24:58:33
I find them.

00:24:58:33 - 00:25:01:08
Sorry. Well, the ones that are listening.

00:25:01:08 - 00:25:07:17
But I find that a lot of them, I'm not very kind and I bet

00:25:07:20 - 00:25:11:06
a bit high on the sort of gatekeeper position

00:25:11:08 - 00:25:14:16
because people like me, we don't have the contacts.

00:25:14:16 - 00:25:15:32
We maybe don't even have

00:25:15:32 - 00:25:19:01
the financial knowledge, as some others might have, etc..

00:25:19:08 - 00:25:24:16
So and you sometimes really rely on someone like this

00:25:24:16 - 00:25:28:09
to, to, you know, open some doors and to make it happen.

00:25:28:12 - 00:25:30:08
Well, that's their purpose.

00:25:30:08 - 00:25:31:18
Yeah, that's their purpose. Yes.

00:25:31:18 - 00:25:36:15
But apparently, I mean, the business must be doing okay because like I say,

00:25:36:17 - 00:25:37:14
I've had

00:25:37:14 - 00:25:41:20
quite a few experiences where that were just simply unpleasant.

00:25:41:23 - 00:25:45:02
Just, just yesterday I had a conversation

00:25:45:02 - 00:25:49:30
that yeah, was was not, not, not particularly great,

00:25:49:33 - 00:25:53:32
but I found one person who found me this as well,

00:25:53:32 - 00:25:57:25
who who's been really,

00:25:57:27 - 00:25:58:21
really decent.

00:25:58:21 - 00:26:00:04
And we have a good relationship.

00:26:00:04 - 00:26:03:16
And even as this deal didn't work out,

00:26:03:21 - 00:26:06:19
there was something we had to sort of

00:26:06:19 - 00:26:09:02
a bit of a disagreement on.

00:26:09:02 - 00:26:13:29
But we found a way to to to, you know, get together again.

00:26:13:29 - 00:26:15:28
And that I really appreciate that.

00:26:15:28 - 00:26:17:19
I don't forget that kind of stuff.

00:26:17:19 - 00:26:21:15
Hanging in there with you is is definitely a test of merit, I would say.

00:26:21:17 - 00:26:22:30
Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:22:30 - 00:26:25:03
Now, of course, a lot of their fee is contingent on

00:26:25:03 - 00:26:27:25
you actually being able to, you know, secure the funds.

00:26:27:25 - 00:26:29:10
And so they should stay in there.

00:26:29:10 - 00:26:30:25
They're incentivized to.

00:26:30:25 - 00:26:34:05
But I've noticed there are, you know, a number of brokers

00:26:34:08 - 00:26:38:33
for commercial finance that charge a nice healthy fee upfront

00:26:39:02 - 00:26:42:05
and maybe are less concerned about the contingent part.

00:26:42:05 - 00:26:46:30
And they they normally in the wind at that moment when you really need them

00:26:46:30 - 00:26:52:11
and when one particular opportunity has fallen apart and need to go again.

00:26:52:14 - 00:26:53:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:53:04 - 00:26:55:29
No, exactly.

00:26:55:29 - 00:26:58:10
Well there's good money out there for good businesses

00:26:58:10 - 00:27:01:25
and I'm sure the one you've selected, if the margins are healthy

00:27:01:25 - 00:27:05:15
and it's got growth potential, there'll be, there'll be a deal to be done.

00:27:05:18 - 00:27:07:26
But can we talk a little bit about your sourcing strategy,

00:27:07:26 - 00:27:11:24
how you came by these businesses, given that your focus is on innovation

00:27:11:24 - 00:27:15:21
and digitization left in a bit more about the methods you found most

00:27:15:23 - 00:27:19:16
productive and effective for sourcing candidates?

00:27:19:19 - 00:27:20:33
Yeah.

00:27:20:33 - 00:27:24:00
So short answer.

00:27:24:00 - 00:27:28:15
It's brokers and which I don't think is ideal

00:27:28:18 - 00:27:31:15
for all the reasons that everyone knows.

00:27:31:15 - 00:27:33:24
You are in competition with other people.

00:27:33:24 - 00:27:36:32
They are usually more educated through the broker

00:27:36:32 - 00:27:40:06
and therefore prices can be a bit higher, etc. etc.

00:27:40:06 - 00:27:44:25
However, they also bring coding benefits,

00:27:44:25 - 00:27:48:26
which is they are educated about what the process might look like

00:27:48:28 - 00:27:53:21
and what is a realistic price and what may not be a realistic price.

00:27:53:21 - 00:27:57:12
What is a normal structure or an acceptable

00:27:57:12 - 00:28:00:17
structure versus what is not an acceptable structure?

00:28:00:25 - 00:28:04:05
Because when you, you know, contact people Coles,

00:28:04:09 - 00:28:07:05
they will all tell you that their business is worth ten X

00:28:07:05 - 00:28:11:23
and and they want all the money in a suitcase on their on their desk.

00:28:11:26 - 00:28:17:13
And, and so those conversations what is it like.

00:28:17:16 - 00:28:18:09
No no

00:28:18:09 - 00:28:21:28
I mean that is sometimes the expectation of some

00:28:21:28 - 00:28:26:09
some people that have not you know kind of and they get it

00:28:26:11 - 00:28:29:02
taken the time to to understand how it works.

00:28:29:02 - 00:28:32:20
But the brokers telling you what's normal and acceptable,

00:28:32:20 - 00:28:35:25
though, is that through the lens of what's normal and acceptable for their client

00:28:35:25 - 00:28:39:01
or for their fee, or is it what's normal and acceptable

00:28:39:08 - 00:28:43:10
in the market for people that are maybe less prepared?

00:28:43:13 - 00:28:46:09
I well, for me,

00:28:46:09 - 00:28:51:26
so the company brokers is a little bit similar.

00:28:51:27 - 00:28:54:30
There's many people that don't like company brokers

00:28:54:30 - 00:28:57:24
and that that don't have great things to say about them.

00:28:57:24 - 00:29:01:26
I have found a couple of companies that I'm very happy with,

00:29:01:26 - 00:29:05:20
and I know that actually those same names come up in the ones that others hate.

00:29:05:23 - 00:29:09:28
So I don't I don't know why, but but I have them

00:29:09:31 - 00:29:13:24
I've managed to to deal with these companies very well.

00:29:13:27 - 00:29:18:08
Of the three deals that I have been talking about in this in this podcast,

00:29:18:11 - 00:29:21:11
two of them come through the same broker company

00:29:21:13 - 00:29:27:23
and and one or was another one. But

00:29:27:25 - 00:29:30:20
yeah, so, so

00:29:30:20 - 00:29:34:22
I find that they are being reasonable.

00:29:34:25 - 00:29:36:20
Maybe I am making great offers.

00:29:36:20 - 00:29:41:19
I don't know the end, but I have found that they have been

00:29:41:25 - 00:29:46:05
a good help for me often certainly in the beginning to get sellers

00:29:46:13 - 00:29:52:16
to sort of accept my position and to make this back and forth

00:29:52:19 - 00:29:53:21
thing.

00:29:53:21 - 00:29:57:04
So so it's really good

00:29:57:07 - 00:30:00:07
that they're realistic and advocating for,

00:30:00:11 - 00:30:05:00
you know, both the buyer and the seller to find a an accommodation.

00:30:05:00 - 00:30:07:05
That's ultimately the brief. That's what they should be doing.

00:30:07:05 - 00:30:08:09
But yeah, it's up to you.

00:30:08:09 - 00:30:10:16
It's always about and I've been on the receiving end

00:30:10:16 - 00:30:14:10
of a few where it's, it's very much the other way.

00:30:14:12 - 00:30:17:28
And so I'm glad this balanced ones I've certainly worked with a number

00:30:17:28 - 00:30:22:13
that are really balanced and mature and practical and want to get a solution done.

00:30:22:13 - 00:30:27:21
And so yes, it's good that they're in your camp and the funding model.

00:30:27:21 - 00:30:31:02
Just remind me with with Hamper Ventures are you

00:30:31:05 - 00:30:34:02
did you set out to be self-funded or traditional search.

00:30:34:02 - 00:30:37:07
Yeah I self-funded

00:30:37:10 - 00:30:38:15
because I could

00:30:38:15 - 00:30:42:06
so you know then I feel like why not.

00:30:42:11 - 00:30:45:21
That being said, obviously, you know in the calculations it was more like,

00:30:45:21 - 00:30:48:23
Yeah, I'll take a year now, so I'll take two years.

00:30:48:31 - 00:30:52:16
So now I'm starting to sweat a little bit and I mean, you're

00:30:52:19 - 00:30:56:16
looking for equity, get funding in addition to the.

00:30:56:16 - 00:30:57:13
Yes I will.

00:30:57:13 - 00:31:01:26
So yeah, this I mean rough structure that I'm usually looking for

00:31:01:26 - 00:31:05:26
is the LBO plus some some equity.

00:31:05:29 - 00:31:12:19
And that has actually always worked quite well with sellers because it means that

00:31:12:19 - 00:31:18:02
they get money upfront and, and yeah, so you can defer some of it

00:31:18:05 - 00:31:21:27
but not too much and they kind of

00:31:21:29 - 00:31:23:10
like that. Yeah.

00:31:23:10 - 00:31:24:15
Yeah I agree.

00:31:24:15 - 00:31:30:14
And you've been quite open there about the challenges of

00:31:30:16 - 00:31:33:33
trying to raise finance for a B2C model.

00:31:34:02 - 00:31:37:15
What are the hurdles of you faced?

00:31:37:18 - 00:31:41:18
Perhaps you could talk a bit about maybe the financing environment, the lending

00:31:41:18 - 00:31:47:30
and equity investing environment that you've encountered on this journey?

00:31:47:33 - 00:31:50:33
Yeah, I mean, you know,

00:31:50:33 - 00:31:54:03
speaking about that story, about the lender dropping out, etc.,

00:31:54:03 - 00:31:59:18
and that is certainly the major hurdle I've I've had the fact that

00:31:59:23 - 00:32:04:26
and we were talking a little bit on our pre call about that as well, that

00:32:04:29 - 00:32:08:17
what I see really is that all the lenders want the same thing.

00:32:08:17 - 00:32:13:28
They want B2B businesses with recurring revenue contracted revenue

00:32:13:31 - 00:32:17:08
and and that's it really

00:32:17:10 - 00:32:22:18
kind of goes out of that lens and they're not so interested.

00:32:22:21 - 00:32:28:06
I actually by now I think there's a huge opportunity here

00:32:28:09 - 00:32:30:01
this is me thinking forward.

00:32:30:01 - 00:32:33:27
I'm already thinking like if I make a deal and I managed to make some money

00:32:33:27 - 00:32:38:06
on my deal, etc., I'm coming back and I'm going into that niche and

00:32:38:08 - 00:32:41:04
like offering some because then you can, you can pick

00:32:41:04 - 00:32:44:04
all the top deals in B2C.

00:32:44:09 - 00:32:44:22
You know,

00:32:44:22 - 00:32:48:10
you don't need to take the bad ones, but I've seen really great deals Now.

00:32:48:15 - 00:32:54:03
Yes, it is higher risk than a B2B business, but

00:32:54:06 - 00:32:57:04
but I just I that's how my mind works.

00:32:57:04 - 00:32:58:33
But I cannot accept that

00:32:58:33 - 00:33:03:16
that there's just like great businesses that won't be able to get sold

00:33:03:18 - 00:33:08:32
just because they like of what they sell or how their revenue model is.

00:33:08:33 - 00:33:09:23
Look at failure.

00:33:09:23 - 00:33:15:14
It's more evidence of the sort of barriers in general to SMB succession.

00:33:15:14 - 00:33:19:10
M&A is that there is a very narrow mold,

00:33:19:13 - 00:33:22:20
very narrow model that attracts all of the money.

00:33:22:23 - 00:33:26:14
And if you aren't in that, then your options are much more limited.

00:33:26:22 - 00:33:30:10
But, you know, it's the it's the fear and greed index.

00:33:30:13 - 00:33:33:22
Again, you know, the Warren Buffett kind of when everybody's fearful,

00:33:33:22 - 00:33:39:10
be greedy, it creates opportunities in that underserved part of the market.

00:33:39:13 - 00:33:42:14
Yes. So I can see your attraction to it.

00:33:42:16 - 00:33:42:24
Yeah.

00:33:42:24 - 00:33:43:16
Yeah.

00:33:43:16 - 00:33:47:02
And but yeah so so

00:33:47:04 - 00:33:50:00
I mean that that has really been

00:33:50:00 - 00:33:51:09
pretty frustrating.

00:33:51:09 - 00:33:55:17
And obviously then sometimes there's a disconnect with sellers understanding

00:33:55:17 - 00:33:59:02
that because these solutions, if the sellers understand

00:33:59:05 - 00:34:02:27
that it can't be financed not because of me, but like no one

00:34:02:27 - 00:34:07:32
will be able to finance their business and then they can be much more flexible.

00:34:08:05 - 00:34:12:02
But for that they must really understand that.

00:34:12:05 - 00:34:13:16
Yeah, and you take them on a journey.

00:34:13:16 - 00:34:14:19
I guess you have to.

00:34:14:19 - 00:34:18:14
It's a chastening experience of realizing that money doesn't

00:34:18:14 - 00:34:22:32
just rain from the sky and actually that, you know, that there isn't a

00:34:23:00 - 00:34:25:12
an optimal deal on offer for everybody.

00:34:25:12 - 00:34:28:04
So, yes, that's quite nice that you can

00:34:28:04 - 00:34:33:09
get them to come to a view whereby they need to bear some of the risk.

00:34:33:12 - 00:34:37:22
But in terms of how you've been perhaps trying to raise money by alternative

00:34:37:22 - 00:34:41:23
means, I mean, have you found speaking to equity investors, have you felt

00:34:41:23 - 00:34:46:11
the state of the market is in terms of availability of capital there?

00:34:46:14 - 00:34:46:25
Yeah.

00:34:46:25 - 00:34:50:07
So I'm currently talking to two investors.

00:34:50:16 - 00:34:51:02
Nothing.

00:34:51:02 - 00:34:56:01
I mean, some, some initial ones were were interested etc..

00:34:56:01 - 00:35:02:02
Again, I tried to make a, you know, an interesting deal for them

00:35:02:04 - 00:35:05:04
with preferred equity,

00:35:05:08 - 00:35:09:00
which again, I think that if I'm on the other side

00:35:09:00 - 00:35:14:30
at some point, this is just a great thing to do when I have noticed though is that

00:35:14:33 - 00:35:17:08
what seems to be happening is that on one hand

00:35:17:08 - 00:35:20:31
you have yeah, banks and sort of institutional lenders

00:35:21:00 - 00:35:24:30
and then you have PE, which kind of would maybe

00:35:24:30 - 00:35:29:25
talk to our market, but they tend to just do bigger deals

00:35:29:28 - 00:35:33:22
and and then you have small investors

00:35:33:22 - 00:35:36:22
or of see firms so angel than VCs

00:35:36:27 - 00:35:42:00
and but they all want startups and they and they don't want a business

00:35:42:00 - 00:35:46:16
that actually makes money and which is just mind blowing to me

00:35:46:16 - 00:35:50:22
there's like this whole and where where people don't want to put their money.

00:35:50:27 - 00:35:55:05
So what I'm trying to do to some extent is actually to contact angel investors

00:35:55:13 - 00:35:57:05
and try to explain to them,

00:35:57:05 - 00:36:01:05
Look, you are willing to put your money into these super risky things.

00:36:01:08 - 00:36:03:24
I'm offering you a business that works.

00:36:03:24 - 00:36:04:33
It exists.

00:36:04:33 - 00:36:07:30
And I'm you know, risk is so much lower

00:36:07:30 - 00:36:10:32
and I'm pretty much guaranteeing you a return.

00:36:11:04 - 00:36:14:21
So, you know, why don't you come on board?

00:36:14:24 - 00:36:16:03
But again, I feel like

00:36:16:03 - 00:36:20:20
there's such a market opportunity there for for us to make people understand

00:36:20:20 - 00:36:24:22
that there's a safe, safe, safer way of of investing.

00:36:24:31 - 00:36:28:06
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more, Florian,

00:36:28:09 - 00:36:32:00
that we are at the the vanguard of a movement.

00:36:32:02 - 00:36:34:02
You know, I've said it numerous times before,

00:36:34:02 - 00:36:36:10
but I'll say it again for those listening for the first time

00:36:36:10 - 00:36:39:32
that you know, the smart money is already shifting from venture

00:36:40:06 - 00:36:45:17
where the returns have not delivered on their promise to the the established

00:36:45:17 - 00:36:50:07
buyout market, the microcap that we're in and we're serving.

00:36:50:09 - 00:36:53:25
And, you know, it's going to be like every movement, every asset

00:36:53:25 - 00:36:57:04
class, it's slow, slow and then everything all at once.

00:36:57:12 - 00:37:01:09
And that's when it will be, you know, boom time and saturation button, you know,

00:37:01:12 - 00:37:07:10
maybe a little bit too late if we don't encourage that transition of capital,

00:37:07:13 - 00:37:11:16
not because the sort of baby boomer opportunity is really at its high

00:37:11:16 - 00:37:15:12
point for the next decade and or slightly less.

00:37:15:12 - 00:37:18:33
So we hope that people move in number more quickly

00:37:18:33 - 00:37:24:02
and help, you know, projects like yours over the line.

00:37:24:05 - 00:37:24:25
Can we talk about this,

00:37:24:25 - 00:37:28:32
what things you've learned on your journey beyond the specific deal challenges?

00:37:28:32 - 00:37:34:13
What's been the steepest learning curve for you coming into this M&A world?

00:37:34:16 - 00:37:36:23
I mean, so much, so much

00:37:36:23 - 00:37:39:09
I don't even know if I can can

00:37:39:09 - 00:37:42:09
and that is exactly why I love that I'm doing this.

00:37:42:11 - 00:37:45:09
My wife regularly questions me and is like,

00:37:45:09 - 00:37:47:22
Do you like what are you doing in that room?

00:37:47:22 - 00:37:49:31
Like, you know, she sees me over a year now

00:37:49:31 - 00:37:53:17
locked up in here and kind of not being able to show for much.

00:37:53:20 - 00:37:56:24
And and and she's like, are you sure you want to do that?

00:37:56:24 - 00:38:01:22
And what I try to explain to her is that it's really

00:38:01:25 - 00:38:03:27
rewarding for me

00:38:03:27 - 00:38:05:04
to learn so much.

00:38:05:04 - 00:38:07:17
So that is the finance aspect that now suddenly

00:38:07:17 - 00:38:10:29
I've got a much better understanding of financially how businesses work.

00:38:11:01 - 00:38:12:18
But also the fact of you know,

00:38:12:18 - 00:38:16:10
all these systems and things that we learn, human things

00:38:16:18 - 00:38:20:02
of how to connect with sellers and therefore how to connect with people

00:38:20:10 - 00:38:23:03
and make them trust you enough that

00:38:23:03 - 00:38:26:13
that that they will give you their life's work.

00:38:26:16 - 00:38:28:07
You don't give

00:38:28:10 - 00:38:28:31
but but

00:38:28:31 - 00:38:32:30
trust you enough to you know, they make that decision with one person.

00:38:33:03 - 00:38:34:23
No, not with a lot.

00:38:34:23 - 00:38:36:00
And you need to be that person.

00:38:36:00 - 00:38:42:03
And so I find that really super interesting and very, very rewarding.

00:38:42:10 - 00:38:47:12
Aside from obviously the business aspect, which I always love to think about,

00:38:47:15 - 00:38:49:00
you know, what could we do with this business?

00:38:49:00 - 00:38:50:32
What could we do with that business now?

00:38:50:32 - 00:38:52:05
But again, it's great traits

00:38:52:05 - 00:38:55:20
for entrepreneurism that you are excited by stepping out adjacent

00:38:55:20 - 00:38:58:20
to your comfort zone and expanding your knowledge and encountering

00:38:58:20 - 00:39:01:22
new challenges and rising to new opportunities.

00:39:01:22 - 00:39:08:31
So that's great and I can certainly appreciate that.

00:39:09:00 - 00:39:10:09
If you were to reflect

00:39:10:09 - 00:39:14:32
on your journey to date from that moment that you initially

00:39:14:32 - 00:39:18:31
had to make the decision to start becoming a searcher

00:39:19:00 - 00:39:20:26
and then navigating

00:39:20:26 - 00:39:24:17
the sort of lending hurdles and the failed deals,

00:39:24:19 - 00:39:27:17
what would you do differently if you were starting over armed with that knowledge?

00:39:27:17 - 00:39:33:07
What would you tell your your 15 month ago self now?

00:39:33:10 - 00:39:36:33
You know, but it's always kind of

00:39:36:33 - 00:39:41:01
tempting to look back and say, like, I should I should have gone faster.

00:39:41:03 - 00:39:45:03
I think that's one of the things that I just always feel like,

00:39:45:06 - 00:39:45:24
all of that.

00:39:45:24 - 00:39:49:31
I just need to make things happen quicker.

00:39:49:33 - 00:39:53:21
But as I was saying earlier, it's also a little bit like who I am.

00:39:53:21 - 00:39:56:17
I just go the speed I go.

00:39:56:17 - 00:39:58:22
But it's true that I am a person.

00:39:58:22 - 00:40:02:20
I need to like, keep myself, like give myself deadlines too,

00:40:02:23 - 00:40:05:00
so that things move, move ahead.

00:40:05:00 - 00:40:07:23
So that is really one of the major things.

00:40:07:23 - 00:40:10:30
And and you do control speed to some extent.

00:40:11:02 - 00:40:13:07
Now it's a balance, especially with sellers.

00:40:13:07 - 00:40:16:15
You don't want to be like pushing them when they're not ready to answer,

00:40:16:15 - 00:40:19:11
like just chase them. That's not going to work.

00:40:19:11 - 00:40:20:18
And so it's a balance.

00:40:20:18 - 00:40:24:33
But I guess that's the real art itself is being able to keep the deal

00:40:25:00 - 00:40:29:24
going as fast as it as it can without breaking it, you know?

00:40:29:27 - 00:40:30:20
Yeah, exactly right.

00:40:30:20 - 00:40:34:02
And is that similar to the sort of advice you would give to others?

00:40:34:02 - 00:40:36:05
I mean, if you were

00:40:36:05 - 00:40:39:00
advising people that was setting out for the first time,

00:40:39:00 - 00:40:43:21
I'm particularly intrigued because in out preamble, you that the

00:40:43:24 - 00:40:46:04
the process of searching was more mentally

00:40:46:04 - 00:40:49:11
taxing than you had thought it would be when you set out.

00:40:49:14 - 00:40:54:10
So I'm interested in your methods for coping with that and for resilience

00:40:54:10 - 00:40:59:10
and maybe what you could give us advice to others about, you know,

00:40:59:13 - 00:41:00:31
treading on those inevitable landmines

00:41:00:31 - 00:41:03:31
and how to cope with them.

00:41:03:31 - 00:41:05:30
And I mean, I think

00:41:05:30 - 00:41:09:14
the first thing that I want to tell people is that they can do it.

00:41:09:16 - 00:41:13:27
And on the other hand, I also always say, like, be aware of what

00:41:14:00 - 00:41:17:22
what you can and what you can't do, or rather, what are you good at?

00:41:17:25 - 00:41:21:16
Obviously, there's a lot of people selling things in this market and they now

00:41:21:16 - 00:41:25:32
tell everyone that they can all do it and they don't need any money. And

00:41:26:00 - 00:41:27:17
I think you need to be careful with that.

00:41:27:17 - 00:41:32:07
I think you need to really sit down and think, who am I may able to do this, etc..

00:41:32:07 - 00:41:37:12
If you're someone who is good at taking direction and executing

00:41:37:20 - 00:41:40:12
and all of that, maybe this is not the best thing

00:41:40:12 - 00:41:45:00
and you don't need to like not everyone needs to be doing the same thing.

00:41:45:03 - 00:41:48:14
But if if you do think that you can lead a business,

00:41:48:14 - 00:41:51:31
if you have got some business acumen and you understand that,

00:41:52:02 - 00:41:56:07
I think that then it's very possible for people to do this

00:41:56:07 - 00:41:59:12
and there's many different ways of doing it.

00:41:59:18 - 00:42:01:28
I also

00:42:01:28 - 00:42:05:08
am standing on the shoulders of people that have done that before me

00:42:05:08 - 00:42:09:33
and that have been kind enough to talk to me to to just give me

00:42:09:33 - 00:42:13:30
the impression that I can do that, that it's not

00:42:13:32 - 00:42:17:07
sort of out outside of my

00:42:17:09 - 00:42:18:14
my realm.

00:42:18:14 - 00:42:21:33
And there still is people that try to make you that.

00:42:22:03 - 00:42:24:31
But if you are having enough conversations,

00:42:24:31 - 00:42:29:00
then you notice that there's much more that are actually completely comfortable

00:42:29:00 - 00:42:29:25
with you doing it.

00:42:29:25 - 00:42:31:15
And they are not.

00:42:31:15 - 00:42:33:16
So you know that that broke as well.

00:42:33:16 - 00:42:34:31
Examples of a love

00:42:34:31 - 00:42:38:04
to make you feel like you have no idea what you're talking about.

00:42:38:06 - 00:42:41:14
And and that's I think it's a shame.

00:42:41:17 - 00:42:46:07
Again, I don't know what the strategy is there, but

00:42:46:10 - 00:42:49:21
but I've had so many people that

00:42:49:24 - 00:42:52:17
often were like me just a couple of years before,

00:42:52:17 - 00:42:57:13
and they are now helping helping people like me to to just go through the stuff.

00:42:57:15 - 00:43:02:09
That's something I really love, but I must say that both British

00:43:02:09 - 00:43:08:01
and Americans as well, to an extent, just culturally, are so much more open

00:43:08:03 - 00:43:12:20
to people like me trying new things and they will help.

00:43:12:22 - 00:43:14:16
And as a general rule.

00:43:14:16 - 00:43:18:26
So so that's a shout out to to the Anglo-Saxon world.

00:43:18:29 - 00:43:20:27
thanks. Thanks. Thanks for that.

00:43:20:27 - 00:43:23:32
We haven't made our lives easy in the most recent decade,

00:43:23:32 - 00:43:26:30
so I think we've invited a little criticism, but

00:43:26:30 - 00:43:29:29
nice to know that we're doing something right with them.

00:43:29:29 - 00:43:31:12
Openness and supportive ness.

00:43:31:12 - 00:43:34:00
But no, specifically, that's quite nucleated in this community.

00:43:34:00 - 00:43:37:33
I think the search and acquisition entrepreneurship community

00:43:38:05 - 00:43:40:07
is very collaborative, very supportive.

00:43:40:07 - 00:43:41:14
There's there's lots of people there

00:43:41:14 - 00:43:44:30
who have done it and made it that want to help others.

00:43:44:30 - 00:43:48:25
And, you know, I always say, you know, true leaders make new leaders.

00:43:48:25 - 00:43:51:22
You know, they go and reach down and, you know, pick people up.

00:43:51:22 - 00:43:53:15
And I think that's a great quality

00:43:53:15 - 00:43:56:15
that these are using in the businesses that they that they acquire, but

00:43:56:15 - 00:44:01:10
also they're using it in the community to, you know, to help that next generation.

00:44:01:13 - 00:44:03:25
So, yeah, that gets me out of bed in the morning.

00:44:03:25 - 00:44:05:04
I really enjoy that.

00:44:05:04 - 00:44:10:02
So if we were to fast forward 12 months, what does have adventures look like?

00:44:10:03 - 00:44:12:26
Where would you like to be?

00:44:12:29 - 00:44:13:10
Yeah, and

00:44:13:10 - 00:44:16:16
obviously I would like to have a closed

00:44:16:16 - 00:44:20:33
deal and, and, and hopefully have made some, some progress

00:44:20:33 - 00:44:24:07
within that company of you know, having a good growth

00:44:24:10 - 00:44:27:22
trajectory there.

00:44:27:24 - 00:44:28:02
Yeah.

00:44:28:02 - 00:44:29:32
That's, that's, that's the goal And,

00:44:29:32 - 00:44:33:20
and I'm still confident that that that will happen.

00:44:33:28 - 00:44:38:01
So yes it was like the stars are gradually starting to align for you.

00:44:38:01 - 00:44:43:07
So I hope that we can have another session once you've got your feet

00:44:43:07 - 00:44:48:31
under the table at the acquired company and yeah, we can then

00:44:49:00 - 00:44:52:29
see how the first 3 to 6 months have gone for you

00:44:52:31 - 00:44:56:19
in the big chair.

00:44:56:22 - 00:45:00:03
I think you have a specific message or a few different specific messages

00:45:00:03 - 00:45:03:32
for the different groups of users and listeners within our community.

00:45:03:32 - 00:45:08:30
So, you know, entrepreneurs, lenders, family offices, business owners,

00:45:08:30 - 00:45:09:13
I imagine.

00:45:09:13 - 00:45:13:16
So do you have any particular, you know, rallying calls that you'd like

00:45:13:19 - 00:45:15:08
to use this moment for?

00:45:15:08 - 00:45:19:13
And so I think

00:45:19:16 - 00:45:20:30
then,

00:45:20:30 - 00:45:25:09
yeah, so there's a couple of different things I think for for Etsy entrepreneurs.

00:45:25:12 - 00:45:28:04
Well, one of the main things that I want to tell people

00:45:28:04 - 00:45:31:16
other than you can do it is the story thing.

00:45:31:16 - 00:45:33:05
I always talk about your story.

00:45:33:05 - 00:45:36:17
In my case, it's my one big thing

00:45:36:17 - 00:45:41:06
is this Apple past and then entrepreneurial.

00:45:41:15 - 00:45:44:15
And I've managed to craft that and,

00:45:44:16 - 00:45:47:18
you know, communicate it well that it resonates with people.

00:45:47:18 - 00:45:51:14
But I believe everyone has a story and I think you really need to sit down

00:45:51:14 - 00:45:55:22
and and crossed it and change it and sort of find your thing

00:45:55:29 - 00:45:59:27
because that has been what has given me the most confidence actually, is that

00:45:59:30 - 00:46:04:02
when I was going out in the beginning, I knew kind of what I was saying

00:46:04:07 - 00:46:08:21
and I could see that people were were work, you know reacting well to it.

00:46:08:21 - 00:46:12:13
So I think it's very powerful to to work on your story.

00:46:12:13 - 00:46:16:07
And that can be just a few lines. By the way.

00:46:16:10 - 00:46:19:07
And the other thing, obviously, I spoke about lending.

00:46:19:07 - 00:46:21:25
So if anyone listens,

00:46:21:25 - 00:46:25:28
you know that that is a lender in one shape or another,

00:46:25:28 - 00:46:29:21
maybe a family office or or any

00:46:29:21 - 00:46:32:21
any other forms that I might not know of.

00:46:32:27 - 00:46:36:31
And I obviously always interested

00:46:36:31 - 00:46:42:06
in talking to people that can can lend money for acquisitions.

00:46:42:09 - 00:46:44:22
And I also believe, as I said, that

00:46:44:22 - 00:46:48:01
there's a huge opportunity for you, not just with me, but with so many others.

00:46:48:01 - 00:46:51:31
So so I think I'm, you know, go and make it happen.

00:46:51:31 - 00:46:54:12
And I guess one last thing.

00:46:54:12 - 00:46:58:15
I don't know how many business owners listen to this, but I'm also always,

00:46:58:18 - 00:47:02:24
always happy to talk to business owners about the business, about,

00:47:02:27 - 00:47:07:12
you know, growth and innovation and how we can make things happen.

00:47:07:15 - 00:47:10:14
So I'm very happy to to jump on a call as well.

00:47:10:14 - 00:47:11:20
That sounds like valuable time

00:47:11:20 - 00:47:13:04
spent with you actually flourishing regardless

00:47:13:04 - 00:47:15:19
whether they were ready to sell their businesses. Yet.

00:47:15:19 - 00:47:20:06
I think, you know, getting your insights on products and process improvement

00:47:20:06 - 00:47:24:11
could be quite a game changer for them and and you know lead to good things

00:47:24:13 - 00:47:28:23
Really interesting your power of story piece there and

00:47:28:26 - 00:47:32:06
yeah I think it's really sage advice to crystallize

00:47:32:06 - 00:47:35:33
a kind of elevator pitch or narrative about yourself that you can convey.

00:47:36:02 - 00:47:39:33
Well it really hit them with, you know, your origin story.

00:47:40:02 - 00:47:43:02
I think that is very, very powerful.

00:47:43:07 - 00:47:45:08
And it seems like you spent some good time.

00:47:45:08 - 00:47:45:14
I mean,

00:47:45:14 - 00:47:48:19
you've got a great story in Providence and Heritage that you've come from anyway.

00:47:48:19 - 00:47:53:03
So it's your problem is more which best you leave out.

00:47:53:05 - 00:47:55:12
Yeah.

00:47:55:12 - 00:47:58:09
Again, I do think that everyone has

00:47:58:09 - 00:48:00:20
has something they can they can tell

00:48:00:20 - 00:48:05:20
and that might also then define, you know, who you can talk to properly,

00:48:05:20 - 00:48:09:11
but maybe that's helpful instead of talking to everyone.

00:48:09:11 - 00:48:10:09
So yeah, true.

00:48:10:09 - 00:48:13:22
Narrowing down, finding your tribe with whom it will resonate.

00:48:13:25 - 00:48:14:01
Exactly.

00:48:14:01 - 00:48:17:25
So just before we wrap up, Florian, it's been fantastic, by the way,

00:48:17:25 - 00:48:20:25
and thanks so much for your, you know, your candor

00:48:20:31 - 00:48:23:13
for listeners who want to follow your journey or,

00:48:23:13 - 00:48:26:21
learn more about Hamburg Ventures or connected you directly.

00:48:26:21 - 00:48:29:24
Where can they find you online or otherwise?

00:48:29:27 - 00:48:31:25
Yes, I'm on LinkedIn.

00:48:31:25 - 00:48:33:18
My name is Florian Welsh.

00:48:33:18 - 00:48:37:02
It's w i l i c Hage.

00:48:37:05 - 00:48:37:24
Yeah.

00:48:37:24 - 00:48:41:20
Easy to find on LinkedIn and Hamburg Ventures dot com as well.

00:48:41:21 - 00:48:42:28
But I mean,

00:48:42:28 - 00:48:48:30
you know that's a bit of a tiny website so yeah, reach out send me a message.

00:48:48:30 - 00:48:53:04
If, if you want a chat doobie, do be respectful of Laurean's time.

00:48:53:04 - 00:48:54:08
Go with an ask.

00:48:54:08 - 00:48:57:15
But yeah as you can tell, he brings a lot of insight.

00:48:57:15 - 00:49:00:14
So I'm sure it's time well spent.

00:49:00:14 - 00:49:03:17
Well, thank you so much for sharing those insights with us today, Florian.

00:49:03:17 - 00:49:06:32
And it's been really wonderful hearing about your experiences

00:49:07:06 - 00:49:10:29
navigating the complexities of challenges of of search

00:49:10:29 - 00:49:14:23
and how that brought you to hopefully this deal that comes across the line

00:49:14:26 - 00:49:16:30
with the right lender in tow.

00:49:16:30 - 00:49:20:11
We wish you the absolute best of success with the future of Hamburg Ventures

00:49:20:11 - 00:49:23:30
and we will hold you to the promise you've made to come back and help

00:49:23:30 - 00:49:29:23
find alternative funding for the FT's Z acquisitions that will happen behind you.

00:49:29:23 - 00:49:32:31
So we we hope to follow your progress

00:49:32:31 - 00:49:36:15
and get you back to talk about your deals again in the future.

00:49:36:17 - 00:49:39:18
To our listeners, of course, thank you so much for tuning into the M&A.

00:49:39:18 - 00:49:39:30
Amazing.

00:49:39:30 - 00:49:43:10
We look forward to bringing you further interviews in the weeks ahead.

00:49:43:13 - 00:49:46:20
But until next time, keep on crunching.

00:49:46:23 - 00:49:47:05
Thank you.