Key

H: = Interviewer, Helen
HB: = Interviewee, Hazel Barringer
[time e.g. 5:22] = inaudible word at this time
[5:22 IA] = inaudible section at this time
[word] = best guess at word
… = interruption in sentence, trailing off or short pause

H:Tell me about your memories of the scouting movement at Crowdundle Beck.

HB:I think one of the main memories is it being a wonderful time for the boys to play together and learn so much in a beautiful area. The river being there, the beck being there, it was just an absolute bonus. It meant they could do all sorts of things that children like to do. And the Scoutmaster was very good at organising activities relating to the beck. They did all sorts of amazing things.

H:So tell me who he was and what your connection was with him and your sons.

HB:OK, the Akela was Barry Brian. He was a maths teacher, he studied maths at Oxford I think, but he was teaching at Haltwhistle. For years and years he was in charge of the scouts that were based at [1:02] village hall. I knew him first through Hayton Church where he was a regular member and eventually a church warden. And he worked with the boys, mainly 7-11 year olds. The younger ones were involved in something different that led on to the European Scout Movement, which he was part of. And the younger boys were 5-7 year olds and they were allowed to go to otters which was a precursor of going to wolf cubs when they went into junior years. So, yeah, he was a good friend of mine from when I moved to Hayton in 1992 until he died, which is only a year ago. For most of that time he will have been involved with the European Scout Movement.

H:And the period that you remember was him taking groups of scouts away to Acorn Bank for perhaps a long weekend, yes?

HB:Yeah. That was one of the things that I remember, he took the scouts all over the place. There would probably be about three trips away during the course of a year, usually a couple of shortish ones of which the Acorn Bank one was just a couple of nights camp and then perhaps a four-day camp somewhere, maybe southern Scotland, maybe a bit further afield. But really the bread and butter of what he did was every week having meetings and there would be a lot of outdoor activities, usually based at Heads Nook and going walking from there. And also going walking around Appleby, I remember them going up to Dufton near Appleby and doing lots of walks and cycles all over the place really. Mostly outdoor but of course the boys, for the boys, the going away and doing the camping at places like Acorn Bank was just amazing.

H:So let’s just focus on Acorn Bank and Crowdundle Beck, what was that like as a location for them?

HB:Well it was just idyllic. We were very, very lucky with the weather the time that I was with them. It was glorious, I think it was probably the end of May, beginning of June and it was just the most perfect weather. And they could just run about, have larks, fun, eat outside all the time. It was just great and perfectly exciting and the most amazing natural setting for them to explore. Of course he took them on walks and nature trails, probably along Crowdundle Beck and around and about Acorn Bank while they were there. So it served as an amazing base. He’d been wanting to go there for a long time but I think due to the ownership of Acorn Bank at the time it had been difficult to get hold of the right people to get permission to do it and he was absolutely delighted when he told me that we were finally going to go there. And he was very excited about it, he said it’s the most perfect spot and it certainly was.

H:What sort of things did they do in the water?

HB:Well there was the normal swimming and paddling and larking about. Because they were only young boys, 7-11 year olds. But there were things like he would set them activities. They did all sorts of sort of craft – building with twigs and all sorts of things and sending things down the river and seeing how far things would travel. All sorts of things like that. Just general boy stuff, really, or children stuff, and they thoroughly enjoyed it.

H:And they were possibly getting badges as well for various different kinds of activities?

HB:Yes they were. They would get badges, not particularly for swimming in the beck but it would be things on the camp. It would be things like possibly cooking, they probably cooked a meal while they were there. I think it was the breakfast, actually, that they were cooking. It would be on stoves, not a fire, but on camping stoves. But they did do sausage sizzles in the evenings, that was always a mainstay of it. And of course at Acorn Bank and the weather being so perfect it was just amazing. And I have got a picture of the fire and them sat around it and they really enjoyed it. And other things on the water, I’m just trying to think. It was looking for things. It was being explorers. It was looking at nature, just being there and in the moment and being together with other boys that were friends that they’d been going to probably cubs with for months or maybe years and having that sense of community and doing things together. And it was very much a caring organisation, talking to the boys about a sense of belonging and a sense of responsibility and caring for others.

H:You mentioned the photograph, let’s just have a look at one of those photographs and you can describe for the recording what’s going on there.

HB:Well I think this photograph that we’re looking at, we’ve got three tents and boys sitting around a small campfire. In my recollection I think this was early evening, after they’d had some dinner and they were sitting around chatting, talking. As I say, the weather was glorious. So I know after I left that evening they will have sat out a long time and done a sausage sizzle for supper and hot chocolate and things like that. But here they were just talking, I think, going through what the activities had been in the day, talking about what they were going to do the next day and just generally hanging out, as they would call it now. I don’t think they called it that then, in the ‘90s. But, yeah, it was just sat round on camp chairs, sat round the fire chatting and talking with other boys and some of the adults that were helping on the camp, including Akela and I think a couple of dads I can see in the picture here as well. And I was there too.

H:And there’s one of the boys in the river that I was looking at earlier. What’s going on there?

HB:Well I think the river was, to be honest, the real attraction for Barry because it meant that they could swim safely. And where I’m looking at the picture now I can see my own son swimming in the river there. It was actually my mum that took these pictures, she must have come with me. So it was obviously deep enough to do some swimming and I know there were probably two or three, at least, sessions over the couple of days in the river. I’m sure they went swimming every day and paddling and pottering about around the riverbank. And here they just seem to be just enjoying the sunshine, the river, pottering in and out. And I think we’ve got one of Barry Brian sitting there, he never used to go in the river but he was always there in case of emergencies. And I can see him watching them here and them having a fabulous time.

H:What do you think it gave those boys, those just tiny weekends? Just a short time but what do you think it gave them?

HB:I think first and foremost it gave them a real appreciation of doing things outside and doing things outdoors and the tremendous enjoyment that could be gained from it. When we look back now, at the time that these things were happening, electronic games were just beginning to come in and hand-held games, Gameboys, things like that, were all just coming in when my boys were growing up in the early ‘90s. And this was a little bit later on in the ‘90s. But a lot of focus was on these electronic games and things. And to do something like this that took them out and about all the time in the fresh air, and doing things, I think it made them really appreciate how enjoyable it was to get out and do things, certainly together rather than sitting on their own doing something. I think that was probably one of the main things. I think the other thing was having some adults around that also appreciated it and who also had a lot more experience of the outdoors and going places and doing things, obviously through to having a much greater age. And Barry himself, who was the Akela, was very well travelled and he used to go everywhere on a bike or walk usually, although he did have a car. And he’d travelled all over the world and gone for cycling holidays in Hungary and various places. And so obviously he had a wealth of knowledge and things to pass on. And just the fact that he’d been and done those things during his life, and obviously he would be about in his 50s, going on 60. When he used to do those probably 30-40 years before, travel wasn’t quite so easy. And I think it gave the boys a real sense of their ability to be able to go and do things and encourage them. And also he encouraged them to be themselves and get on well with each other and enjoy nature.

H:It’s that sense of community that you mentioned is really important to an activity like that.

HB:Yeah, it certainly is. I think that was one of his major reasons for being involved in the European Scouts, that he felt that having a group of boys together who had experiences walking, cycling, camping, eating together, making things together and being quite productive, fostered a great deal of companionship and understanding of others which, to be honest, is so important for later life and as they’re growing up. So I think they had one of the best starts they could possibly have had under his guidance. And his guidance, in actually finding these places to go, was just second to none. I went with him to lots of places on days out and things like that and, as I say, his excitement at having found, knowing about Acorn Bank and having researched it, realised it was just the ideal place for this sort of activity to take place, was great. It was all down to him really.

H:And what was your job in relation to these short camps at Acorn Bank?

HB:Well I was a general helper with the wolf cubs which was the name that covered this age group of 7-11 year olds in the European Scout Movement. Really, on this particular camp, I was just really the cook. So I wasn’t there for the whole weekend, I went down on each of the two days and the first day I took some dinner down and obviously we served that and what have you and left them all sorts of things to cook for breakfast. And I think they were going to do one of the cooking badges for that, to produce a breakfast and work together etc. to do all the associated chores and things. So, yes, so I did that and then I went home to bed but they all camped with some of the dads I think. And then I went back the next day and took stuff for the next day for them. So really I was just the cook but it was just a delight to be able to part of it and see how much good it was doing.