Key

P: = Participant
I: = Interviewer
[time e.g. 5:22] = inaudible word at this time
[IA 5:22] = inaudible section at this time
[word] = best guess at word
… = interruption in sentence, trailing off or short pause

P:… so my connection Acorn Bank and the river, I would say is the fact that, before my time as a staff member, I’m quite interested in foraging and wild foods and I’ve always remembered this woodland to be quite full of wild garlic, which is always quite exciting. And just generally the river itself, you’ve got things across at the river, anemones that you don’t see much off in much number. Some of them are double ones which is quite interesting because again you don’t see those very often.
And I think for me, it was always the fact that, when I was studying at Newton Rigg, I kind of had this property as a case study quite often about gardening or the wildlife, because it’s quite a unique environment with being alder carr as well.
But I think most of my sort of interaction has been through my volunteers actually because they’re all local and lived in this area and because they’ve been retired a few of them, they’ve had time to sort of explore it in detail numerous times because actually being a staff member on site, and I am a gardener, you very guilty for not actually going down the woodland very much because you’re in somewhere outdoors all day. You’ve got your kind of fresh air in and you think, right, that’s me. I’m going home.

I:Yes.

P:And then, so you don’t get to see it as much as you’d like, even though it’s only over the wall. So, for me, it’s through a few volunteers. So, particularly one of them for me, and it’s because she was quite a funny volunteer , quite mischievous. She was everywhere she should and shouldn’t have been, I would say. So, she’s called Julia and, unfortunately, she has passed away this year, so I do always connect her to the river actually because I found her near the mill at the wrong side, thinking, how have you got there? But anyway she would then be the one to tell you, right, did you know this? Have you seen that? And I’m like, I’ve never seen that or heard that. So, she would point out things that maybe I wouldn’t know the answer to, which then made me go find it out or be curious and then when the right person triggers it again, I’d be like, somebody’s asked me that before.

I:Yeah.

P:So, I think for her and the wildlife because I know her sister did stuff with badgers as a job, so she would tell me about the evidence of them being round that area and definitely the otters, which I know none of us have ever seen them who work here but I think one person did, but down by the gypsum mine somewhere, but again there is markings, I think, that people do say is there.

I:[2:08]

P:So, I think again, we had an apprentice on site who used to record the footage and I don’t know if she did ever see them herself on her camera, but again there is evidence there.

I:So, have you had any involvement with the camera? Do you keep track of what’s on the camera?

P:I don’t actually myself. It’s our gardener, Chris. He’s the one who’s took on all of that. He’s a bit more techy so we picked on him.

I:

P:Definitely myself, I’m not very good with cameras. So, yeah, he was able to set up, I guess, all the right shutter times or speeds and things like that, but because it’s been sort of a thing down there, it’s quite funny because you do see how many people go down and have a little look at what’s going on, which is interesting to see how like curious we all are. So, you do laugh. Like someone’s walking their dog and then you go, oh it’s so-and-so from whichever property, they obviously know what’s going on. So, yeah.

I:So, can I go back a step and ask you how long you’ve been here and what you’ve been doing while you’ve been here?

P:Yeah. So, I’ve been at Acorn Bank four years as a staff member. I actually… I’ve been a staff member previously at Aira Force for five years but I used to come here and volunteer and do the odd bit of gardening, because I was trying to become a gardener but you need a lot of experience, even though you’ve got qualifications in this sector. So, I did kind of a lot of interaction with it. I think it was mostly the walled garden and the fruit collection initially, so that was quite nice. So, yeah, I’m probably… I’m in my ninth year in the Trust as a whole but Acorn Bank four, five years, probably a bit longer if it’s volunteering extra as well.

I:Yeah, so how does it make you feel being here?

P:I love it ‘cause it changes constantly and it’s peaceful, which I know visitors as well appreciate and it’s got so many different environments in one place. So, because of the river, you’ve got that over the wall sort of feeling of the nature’s still there in the garden. It’s kind of balanced compared to a lot of gardens where you’ve got very pristine things but we haven’t. We’re kind of quite proud of the rough round the edges because it’s more pleasurable.

I:Yes, and so the over the wall feeling, you do still feel that you’ve got connections to the woods and the river?

P:Oh yeah, because you still hear it. You do, you hear it quite well and particularly after lots of bad weather, you’re like oh wow, have you heard the weir, for example. You can’t believe it but then equally, when I’m here on my own on a Saturday, because I do in the winter I have alone days, I might be just doing some collecting scionwood for grafting and you can hear it so far away, that trickle, even though it’s only a small amount of water flow compared to ordinary but it’s really good.

I:And do you stray down to the stream, the river?

P:Now and then, especially if… so if I have the middle gate open in the walled garden, they call it Crown of Thorn Gate, because it’s like a picture frame straight down into it, I think. And especially when the snowdrops are out, you open it and you’re like, wow, look at that, it’s like a proper contrast.

I:Yeah, and do you have contact with the people who are the volunteers in the woods as well?

P:Not so much but only the odd one because the garden volunteers will sometimes go down there so I do see… when I do my newsletter, I might get pictures of people who’ve been doing things. So, for example, in the weir… not the weir, sorry, the leat . So, we’ve got Chris in waders with mud all up to his waist and then some of the other volunteers just smiling, covered in mud.

Yeah, it’s quite nice like that.

I:But it’s not part of your job?

P:Unfortunately not. The woodland’s in my sort of… you know, if I’m needed down there but because the garden’s such a big area and the estate and things, we’re kind of divided up a little bit because it’s just too much for one person. And I particularly manage all the garden volunteers, so I might be setting up daily tasks and things can sort of focus me away.

I:So, tell me, do you have any stories that you remember from people who’ve been around here for a long time?

P:I think it’s more… I haven’t got any stories, I think it’s imagining when you read. So, when I’ve read Dorothy’s writings and we’ve got an archaeological dissertation that was put together, and it’s nice sometimes to read what some of the things that she used to think. So, you put yourself in the idea of oh, as if this was down here once upon a time. I don’t know if it’s accurate from memory but I think there were some veg beds in the woodland. Something along them lines I remember reading in one of these things and you’re thinking that’s really quirky.
And I think for me it’s daffodils as well, so the pseudonarcissi. Dorothy wanting to be known as ‘lady of a million daffodils.’ So, when you walk down there and you see them thriving, I’m a gardener but obviously that connected the garden team, Dorothy and the daffodils. So, I think for me, it’s that. It’s a very colourful place. So, yeah, I’m not fortunate to have stories but more what people’s experiences are of when they work round the river mainly.

I:So, do you have much information about what the original layout of the gardens and the woods was?

P:So, there’s ideas of what we think it looks like from sort of suggestions. So, some of the planting on sort of the weir end of the woodland, not the gypsum mine, is that a lot of things are just species planting, the cultivars, so there might be a shrub, a tree or you think that’s not the standard type. So, it might be something a bit posher and you’re thinking, why is that down here? And then you start picking up there’s a lot more of that around the woods. So, there is a designed element down there.
In the last few years as well, I know Heather has helped the team get… have garden eyes on it a bit more, that part of the woodland, because then it starts to bring those sort of views back and things that are designed intentionally to be a certain way.

I:So, are the paths part of the designed garden?

P:I think so. Again they could have been National Trust sort of visitor approved, but I would have thought that, because again those plants that we know are interesting species, they are cultivars, there’s obviously a journey involved somehow because there are two ponds as well, which were done by Dorothy, so planned round her. So, there’s definitely some journey involved, I do think…

I:Yeah.

P:Yeah, you do see that.

I:So, it’s not just a wild wood?

P:No, especially this side from sort of the weir end. We definitely think further down the gypsum end, it probably was more natural left but over the garden well, literally, as I say, the walled garden, that has got some intention, so just from the fact all the daffodils are there.

I:Yeah, so future planning a bit.

P:Yeah.

I:And is it going to be more like a garden than a wood?