PB_S2E12 +TONY_CC_0404 ===

Sarah Wayne Callies: [00:00:00] Hi Paul.

Paul Adelstein: Hi Sarah. How are you?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um. I mean, we just watched the episode and I didn't know that there was a car crash that ended it. So,

Paul Adelstein: uh, I, uh, I forgot about that myself, but I do not think that that is the. Midseason finale. I think next week is, I think you might be right 'cause I believe there's some, oh, anyway, the thing I was gonna tell you that they, or should we just go in order?

'cause we have to do this index and all that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, maybe we should do that. Let's do the, should we, um,

Paul Adelstein: let's do the index and we can just jump in.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Let's, well, let's, some people know that. Okay. So, uh, big reversals of fortune in this episode, we had a lot of, um, people go, uh, people get caught. [00:01:00] Um, and once we talk about the episode.

We're gonna have a guest, um, come on, who is integral to the sort of like integral, deep emotional heart of the prison break story. Um, and if you don't know why, it's probably time to go back and watch the episode before we spoil everything. Right?

Paul Adelstein: Major spoilers.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Major spoilers. So go now, because you can say who

Paul Adelstein: our guest is, right?

It's fine. It's not, yeah, go for it. It's Tony Denison who plays Aldo. Aldo. Burrows father to Michael and Lincoln, uh, the bastard that hit me in the head with a fire extinguisher in season one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, we had a great talk with him. So that's gonna be part of, um, we did this, uh, episode

Sarah Wayne Callies: two, and there might even be recipe bonus content.

Oh, that's fun. Because, um, he could really cook, uh, cook. He, he cook my favorite dish, which is eggplant parm, and I'm very excited to. Try his recipe out.

Paul Adelstein: I really don't like eggplant. Does that mean I don't like eggplant Parmesan?

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, because [00:02:00] it's, oh no, it's not.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, I thought he was saying eggplant lasagna.

It's eggplant Parmesan.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's eggplant parm and like, but eggplant parm does not taste like eggplant.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. It's, he was talking about putting it in the sun and getting rid of the

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, it tastes like. Parmesan and, and red sauce.

Paul Adelstein: Uh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: it's super good.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. It's a delivery system for cheese and sauce. That's exactly right.

Uhhuh

Sarah Wayne Callies: like eating an artichoke. You're not eating an artichoke butter, you're just putting garlic butter in your butter and salt. Yeah. Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah. Um, okay. Cal said index. Um, oh, we haven't mentioned this yet. Episode two 12 mm-hmm. Is called Disconnect. Um, it was written by Nick Santora and Karen Usher, which is rare for the show.

And it was directed by Karen Gla, uh, making it the first episode of the show, directed by a woman. Um, Karen would go on to direct one more episode in season. Oh, another episode in season three, and then two. In season four. Um, season five, we would have one more female director, uh, on the show, the Brilliant Millo, and that is the whole list.[00:03:00]

Wow. Because that's what the business, uh, was like back then.

Paul Adelstein: Wow.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, but Karen also went on to direct you in private practice. Yeah,

Paul Adelstein: she did a few times. I think

Sarah Wayne Callies: she did. Um, she directed me again in colony. She's badass. Um, in fact, we should have her on the show for her season three episode if she's not too busy taking over the world.

Um, disconnect. This episode first aired November 20th, 2006 at 8:00 PM we were up against a Charlie Brown Thanksgiving. Oh, on a BC deal or no deal on NBC and how I met your mother on CBS and we whooped. Charlie Brown's heartwarming, animated, but with a rating of 9.62 million live viewers, which actually was the highest rated episode of the season so far.

Poor Charlie

Paul Adelstein: episode Recap. Yep. We left off with Michael, face to face with his father, Aldo Burrows. Michael reveals that growing up in foster care after Aldo had abandoned them, his foster [00:04:00] father was abusive, and that Aldo came, found the foster father and killed him to save Michael. Then Aldo tells Michael about the tape that can exonerate Lincoln and that they won't need to run anymore if they can get this tape and the tape.

He thinks is in Sarah's hands, but Maho catches up to them. And as the father and sons escape, Aldo's Fatally shot after burying their father, Michael and Lincoln decide to stay and fight instead of running. Sukra takes the plane outta the country alone. Uh, Suka takes the plane outta the country alone.

Mahome failing to stop him, but Mahome does eventually. Apprehend the brothers by ramming his car into them.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Apprehend is maybe a soft sell

Paul Adelstein: on that one. Yeah. Meanwhile, Dr. Sarah manages to escape from Kellerman with her sneaky little ways who had been told to kill her. Uh, Kim basically cancels Kellerman as a result, having him erased essentially.

Uh, and wiping [00:05:00] out any of evidence of Kellerman's existence or while working for the government elsewhere. Ick is in big trouble. He tries lying to the police until, uh, the threatening message he left for Gary is found. He gets him arrested for Garry's murder. Meanwhile, snots family's on the run. His wife realizes they don't have their daughter's medications with no other choice.

She goes to a drug store. We, she is spotted. And arrested

Sarah Wayne Callies: in disappointing racism news on November 17th at The Laugh Factory, which is a standup comedy club in Hollywood. Yeah, the actor Michael Richards, uh, who was famous for playing Kramer on Seinfeld, launched into a racist rant at some hecklers. Uh, and that rant has since become infamous and in, in memoriam news, um, the same day that the show aired on November 20th, Robert Altman died.

Mm. Uh, if you don't know Robert Altman. Um, you're in for a treat. He was a giant of a filmmaker who made a brilliant career of overlapping dialogue and [00:06:00] sprawling casts and a more naturalistic camera style that, uh, changed filmmaking forever.

Paul Adelstein: Absolutely. Uh, also in film news on November 14th, casino Royale premiered in London marking Daniel Craig's debut is the new James Bond filmed earned $616 million the highest.

Grossing Bond film at that point in the franchise. Until Skyfall In Music News, Jay-Z dropped his ninth studio album on November 21st. The album debuted at number one and was nominated for a Grammy for best rap album. Finally, in gaming news on November 19th, the Nintendo, we was released in North America, priced at 249.99.

By the end of the year, Nintendo had sold over 4 million consoles worldwide. Bum, bum, bubu, bubu, bum, bum. Is that music from the we?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. I never had a wei.

Paul Adelstein: They're fun for like 20 minutes. Uh, we'll be right back talking about the episode. All [00:07:00] right. It's a quick break.

All right, we're back. Okay, we're back. You know, one of the things that occurred to me during the index, because we like to talk about, um. How things have changed since.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yep.

Paul Adelstein: The show. And, and even when we talked to Tony, one of the questions you have is about has fandom changed? Mm-hmm. Um, since then or since the, uh, in his career.

Yeah. Um, is that the Michael Richards thing? Um hmm. Uh. WI just remember being like, I don't remember seeing things recorded on cell phones, but really much before then.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, that's interesting. And I

Paul Adelstein: wonder how different that would've been, right? If people, if there was reports of mi you know, people, this guy says, Michael Richards, this thing happened.

It was, it was so shocking.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm-hmm.

Paul Adelstein: To see. Mm-hmm. Um. [00:08:00] I wonder, uh, you know, that was, uh, people had been filming, you know, things without permission or stuff like that, obviously, uh, yeah. For years. But it felt like that was a bit of a turning point.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's a really good point. I mean, I remember because Wentworth got so famous so fast on the show that I remember standing around someplace in Dallas shooting, and he was like.

Everybody who walks by has a camera now. Mm-hmm. And it was so unsettling. Like we were shooting someplace where there was an office building. Mm-hmm. And he was like, people can be in those offices taking photos of us. And that was a real change because before Mm. When you'd run into a fan. Mm-hmm. It was just a totally different experience.

Mm-hmm. First of all, usually they'd interact with you. Mm-hmm. As opposed to like, walk up to you, take a selfie and leave. Right. This was actually pre selfie because there weren't cameras that turned around. Right. You could fake it, but

Paul Adelstein: they would literally just like, I wanna take you [00:09:00] a picture of your face.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. It, it, it changed. It changed a lot. And you're right. I think that Michael Richards thing, because someone had the receipts, it became an undeniable

Paul Adelstein: Correct. And also,

Sarah Wayne Callies: and other tone of

Paul Adelstein: it, like the rage, like all the.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You

Paul Adelstein: know, there's no taking, there's no like, oh, the context of this.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, anyway, whatever.

Yeah. Um, well, not whatever, but anyway.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. The show.

Paul Adelstein: The show. So a big thing happens in this episode, an enormous thing, which is. So many big things happen. And it's a narrative you're talking about. It's a narrative, uh, not a trope, but it, it is a narrative structure. Um, it happens in a lot of movies, happens in TV shows.

We did it in imposters. You get chased, your lead characters get chased.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm-hmm.

Paul Adelstein: And then they stop and they [00:10:00] say, we're heading back in.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. Yes.

Paul Adelstein: Right. We're like, we are gonna go

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: To the source. Mm-hmm. And the thing that Aldo does by showing up is he's like, one, there's a tape that can exonerate you. And two, I sacrificed myself maybe, and he may have misgivings about it.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm-hmm.

Paul Adelstein: To this idea that this thing needed to be stopped. And suddenly, or maybe it's been brewing a little while, Lincoln and Michael are like, fuck this shit.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Like this thing that has been so personal to us.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm-hmm.

Paul Adelstein: You know, it ruined like all those, like, everything I did ru your lives are like this because of me.

Mm-hmm. You were abused in foster care. The company's trying to kill you. Lincoln, they're trying to get to me all this stuff. They're like, we're gonna go. We're not just in it for us. We're going to take this thing down and suddenly it's become a li bigger [00:11:00] than them and it's changed their, uh, orientation to it and their motivation.

And you know, from the very beginning they've been trying to run

Sarah Wayne Callies: well and I, it starts to feel like part of. What leads them to that decision? Is this escalating collateral damage?

Paul Adelstein: Uh, yes, that's right, because they've lost their father. He says too many. Right. Teabag

Sarah Wayne Callies: is on the loose. Exactly. I mean, even he says Too many people have died trying to get you.

Yeah, there's this sense and, you know, he doesn't, Kellerman's career is

Paul Adelstein: in the shitter now.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Kellerman's a ghost. I mean, I feel for that guy. Um, and he doesn't even know about, you know, c noe's wife and things like that. But I think there is this sense that. Uh, this was about my brother, but it's become about something, something about something else so big.

Mm-hmm. And I feel so, like, there's so much blood on my hands. Um, and you're right. I mean, it's, it's also a brilliant way to drive the second half of a season because Mahon [00:12:00] chasing Michael and Lincoln for 22 episodes Right. Feels like that could get a little repetitive. And

Paul Adelstein: also it also, it changes, you know, it's important.

For on something serialized for characters' motivations to evolve. Mm-hmm. Yes. Right. It's, it's still in the same, the kernel of the thing is the same. It's about family, it's about honor, it's about doing the right thing. But like you said, like, you know, it gets more and more complicated and instead of that complication just being complication

Sarah Wayne Callies: mm-hmm.

Paul Adelstein: It has had an a profound effect on both of them now.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Well, I mean, because even if you think about season one. Yeah. Michael made so many concessions to his own ethics,

Paul Adelstein: right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: In order to achieve the higher good. And it almost feels like, well, maybe there's a higher good above that. Yeah. And I think there

Paul Adelstein: is, I think, you know, and there's atonement they're sitting that they're sitting at at Aldo's grave, and he's, and he's, too many people have died from me trying to get you free.

And you know, he had that thing about teabag earlier in the season, which was really [00:13:00] smart, is like mm-hmm. You know? And. It, it, I think you're right. It's, it's this idea of this is really horrible. There's something that we can do that might not make it all worthwhile, but is a hi is a higher purpose than just let's go live in Panama.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and also recognizing that like Maho is hunting everybody. Now, this isn't about, I wanna take you into custody. This is like Michael's done the math. Mm-hmm. That Mahon is. Trying to kill everyone. Um, which in some ways also changes the stakes of like, if he's not stopped, he's gonna come after Sukra, he's gonna come after C note.

He's, you know, there's, there's something I think there that, that's also a motivator. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, it's a big pivot and I cannot remember what happens in the next episode. I can, which is the mid-season finale,

Paul Adelstein: I can.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. Well wait until next week. You wanna talk about prosthetics, [00:14:00] because you and I have had some serious prosthetic acting Yeah.

In this episode. So

Paul Adelstein: tell me about the prosthetic. So Sarah jumps through the windshield and then you, you, you cut your arm and you're gonna sew it up yourself.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. And our amazing, uh, it was no-no. I, makeup artist. Wonderful. Head of our

Paul Adelstein: makeup

Sarah Wayne Callies: artist, makeup department. Yeah. Who did the prosthetic piece.

Yeah. And you know, I mean, it's, look, they just, they stick it to your skin. You really sew it up. But they've got a couple option. They've got a couple, because once you stick a needle in it, it starts to look not great. Right. Uh, but the terror is that you stick the needle too far in. Yeah. And you hurt yourself.

Um, yeah. And you, and you, did you. I did not. Oh. But as we were doing the rewatch, you were like, oh, I've got a story about this. When

Paul Adelstein: I was directing, I was directing

private practice and Steven Amel, who went on to Great, he had actually got cast in Arrow when we were shooting this [00:15:00] episode of private practice.

Oh, wow. And then he went on to, uh, heels and, um, all this stuff. Okay. And he's just one of the, he's a gr uh, yeah, we had a great time. Uh, but he's a hot paramedic. I think as you do. As you do, sure. And I think he had a thing with Brandon's scar, I don't remember. Anyway, uh, he gets injured being a hero, and Tim Dailey sews him up and they put a big prosthetic on him.

Right. And Tim's sewing him, tone him, towing him. And um, Steven goes, uh, can we just one sec? Uh oh. No, wait. I think it was after the take. They're like, cut. And he was like, yeah, you, uh, he's like, oh, did I poke you? And he's like. No, you sewed the thing to my skin.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh my God.

Paul Adelstein: Like he went through a couple times.

Uh, first of all, he, I understand everyone feels pain. Steven looked like, like michaelangelos David. You're [00:16:00] like, how did you even get a needle to go through that muscle? But I remember the nurses had to come in and like, you know. Snip the

pull the string out.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So in the take, yeah. As you're watching this as a director, are you like, oh, he's acting this pain really well, or did he just bury it?

Paul Adelstein: He was, you know, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um,

Paul Adelstein: how he wasn't particularly, he didn't look particularly more in pain than, you know, they're supposed to have shot him up and whatever. But

Sarah Wayne Callies: how was Tim Daley? Because I, yes, I'm super sorry that Steven, like, that's terrible, but also he was, if I as an actor had done that to somebody,

Paul Adelstein: I would be like, it was a, it was a pretty, he was apologetic, but it was a pretty jolly Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Sorry, I sowed your skin, dude. Yeah, yeah,

Paul Adelstein: yeah, yeah. Uh, I remember having a flashback to all that stuff when shit. Uh, my child got really into Grey's Anatomy like five years ago, and, and this happened to my niece too. That's one of mine too. I think it's a wonderful thing. [00:17:00] And then they wanna be surgeons and then they, or you can order these things from Amazon, these little So kits.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yep. So cool. My kid got one for Christmas. Yeah. A couple years ago. Yeah. And my

Paul Adelstein: niece got it and we were like, like love. And my niece got it and we were like, that's that's pretty weird for an eight, 9-year-old to be doing. And then we're like, well, maybe there'll be a surgeon and then like. Five years later, um, your kid's going

Sarah Wayne Callies: through it, it's a little bit like the Nintendo.

We, I remember it being fascinating for like 20 minutes. Yeah. And then it was like, eh,

Paul Adelstein: all right. Um, question. Uh, wow. Yes. Did we fly a jet?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Did we fly? I mean, not you and me personally, but

Paul Adelstein: did prac, I mean, it had to be

Sarah Wayne Callies: also, I'll say this

Paul Adelstein: practically, it didn't look like a military jet. It looked like a. Like a Lear jet.

It looked like a private jet, it looked like, like is there, it's agent Kim just like be, he's like, is there a billionaire up there that could go, that could go shoot down this Cessna?

Sarah Wayne Callies: What's Richard Branson doing right now? Right, exactly. [00:18:00]

Paul Adelstein: Um, but it was, it looked like it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: If it wasn't, it was some of the best CG I've ever seen.

No way from 2006. No

Paul Adelstein: way. No way. It was that CG and, and it wasn't bonkers stock because the car's in the shot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. I mean, you can composite it, but given how far down it comes, it

Paul Adelstein: didn't look like it looked pretty practical to my very professional lie.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. When we have Karen Gabriella on in season three, right, because she directed season three, we gotta hold this question.

Um, if, uh, if any fan out there has heard an interview with anyone who can answer this, please um, please hit us up. This was actually, this was sort of the small planes, um. Episode in that there's, you know, the plane that Su Gray ends up taking on his own. Mm-hmm. Uh, there's a nice callback to the very end of season one Uhhuh, where Michael and Lincoln are on a runway watching a plane leave.

Except this time it's intentional. Um, I assume that that's Nick Santo and Karen Usher being really great writers Uhhuh, and like, [00:19:00] oh, this will be cool. But as we were doing it, you made that face, you were like, mm-hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Mm-hmm. Oh no. I've been on 'em a lot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. I was fine with small planes until, until I went.

Skydiving and I was tandem skydiving.

Paul Adelstein: And you're like, it's so easy to fall out of this thing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, I was tandem skydiving, which means the guy who was the skydiving instructor that I was strapped to made the decision about when we exited the plane, which meant that my experience of skydiving felt like being thrown out.

I cannot shake

Paul Adelstein: my head any harder without hurting myself. No,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I never had a problem ever in small planes. No. And ever since. It, it comes and goes, but sometimes I'll just be like, ah, like the ran the randomness

Paul Adelstein: of I could just, yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: somebody could just, because it's that feeling of the door opens and everything inside you goes, Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Ha. And, and I got to the bottom and my husband had jumped right after me. Ugh. Well, it had been jumped [00:20:00] right after me and we both like get out of our thing and at the exact same time we're walking towards each other in the landing area. And he goes, wasn't that amazing? And I was like, I am never doing that again.

Paul Adelstein: That does not, that does not appeal to me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Very, very different experience. I'm

Paul Adelstein: not a scaredy cat either. I just that just one of those things where like the potential for regret seems very high.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and just. All the billion years of evolution screaming in every one of your DNA going, whatcha doing?

Whatcha doing? Like, we did all of this to get you here and you're gonna what? Right. No, it's nuts. Um, we, uh, you said something about the scene where you were on the phone to the president.

Paul Adelstein: I had like a 4:00 AM call time. Because they wanted to shot. Oh. 'cause they shot in the dark. Shot in the dark

Sarah Wayne Callies: at like 5:00 AM at Oh, interesting.

5:00

Paul Adelstein: AM because it was night. A [00:21:00] nighttime shot. Right. And they put it at the beginning of the day.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's a

Paul Adelstein: wild, it was my only work of the day. Got there at four. We shot it at five. It was like two a two setups. Right. They're gonna lose the light at five 40. Oh God. And then like, I like go to the makeup trailer and I take out my thing and I'm like, I get, and then like I go home and I'm like in bed, like,

Sarah Wayne Callies: what do I do

Paul Adelstein: the day?

Like I just worked the rest of the day. Like I went back to sleep day, I gotta like 10. That's a quiet. And I was like, was that a dream? Like I was, it was such a strange feeling to be like, that was my, I'm done. Done.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And you are not, not a morning person. No.

Paul Adelstein: No, I'm not.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, no. But also you can't tell, which is kind of cool.

No,

Paul Adelstein: I mean, you

Sarah Wayne Callies: know, um, but I mean, but it's a big deal of a scene, right? Like it's the scene where Kellerman realizes he's been erased. Yeah. And also, and all of your years of service, actually, that's interesting. I didn't think about this. It's a, there's a parallel in some ways to alvo. I was,

Paul Adelstein: I was gonna Well, and to the [00:22:00] boys

Sarah Wayne Callies: all your years of service.

Yeah. They,

Paul Adelstein: because well, it's, it's, I don't wanna spoiler alert, but what Kellerman's is deciding to do in that moment is mm-hmm. Go into the fray.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. Right. So it's, you just made the wrong enemy, kind

Paul Adelstein: of that thing. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right.

Paul Adelstein: I also wanted to tell the story that when you burn me,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, we had a discussion.

I, for some reason, I remember it being Greg. But maybe I'm confusing Greg with Bobby, who might've been operating the camera maybe. But you, Greg, UTA. Yeah. Who directed, directed the previous episode and it's 'cause it's the same action. And Karen picked up this action of the burning and you jumping out, is that we had a discussion about whether Kellerman, even with all [00:23:00] his, you know, training, et cetera, would not scream.

In that way.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, right. That there

Paul Adelstein: would be a, I mean, you know, whatever the reaction is, that it would be something, you know, there's this whole thing about Secret Service guys actually training their, uh, neurology to react differently. Mm-hmm. Like if you hear a loud noise, they go out as opposed to get in.

Right. All that kind of thing. Right. I thought maybe he would be able, maybe he'd be, uh, more stoic about it. I don't, that's not the right word. And we said, well, let's do it both ways. And I did it most of the time by kind of like grunting, and it was like a stifle. It was like a, the beginning of a scream and a stifle.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

then, and we really liked that. And then we were doing this handheld thing, and I did that a few times. And then I guess it was Karen, the director I thought was like, we just need to get [00:24:00] the scream so we have it

Sarah Wayne Callies: right.

Paul Adelstein: And I was like, okay. And they're like, we're not gonna use it though. So just like give a huge screen, like the biggest screen you could do for audio.

And I was like, okay, but why is the. Right. This is where my maybe greenness, you know, a little green. Yeah. Uh, and then yeah, I mean, I, I don't regret it. I think it's a kind of a interesting, it's, I mean, to see him freak out like that it is,

Sarah Wayne Callies: is pretty upsetting. It's, it's interesting because both Kellerman and Michael become not unhinged, but you see them not in control and, uh, in a very new way in this episode.

Um, yeah. In an unusual way, in a way that makes clear that like we are not in Kansas anymore. The stakes are changing.

Paul Adelstein: Um, there's a great thing in drama. Drama in drama,

Tony Denison: which I underst like,

Paul Adelstein: like, [00:25:00] which I always think about the Arthurian legend, which is like the thing of like a, the, the metaphor, even though it works in the plot of a wound.

Being something that ha is like symbolic of a character's change.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Like kellerman's? Never the same.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I've never heard that before.

Paul Adelstein: A wound being. Symbolic. It's symbolic. It happens like, makes sense. It's, it's, it's in, so like in Chinatown, like he gets his nose cut, you know, and it's like this wound mm-hmm.

That he, for the rest of the mm-hmm. Like, it, it's, there's all, a lot of times there's like the, the in a hero journey thing. Mm-hmm. It's 'cause it's like evidence of mm-hmm. The cost as were talking, you're carrying it forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're carrying it forever and you have to heal it. And there was this whole thing of Lance Lott's wound and then, and Arthur being sick and having to find the grail, but it was the, his wound, Lance Lott's wound was the wound of guilt.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, et cetera, et cetera. And, and I was like, that's, it's interesting that, I mean, it works always. Of course it works [00:26:00] literally because he's not gonna be the same because he's getting screwed by Kim, but, and he's been, he's screwed up with Sarah. But, um. Yeah, I just thought, oh, I never thought of it that way before.

It's one of those things, as an actor, you don't need to think about it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well,

Paul Adelstein: it's also interesting that he's gonna kill her.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He's a hundred percent gonna kill her,

Paul Adelstein: which I think is great for him as a character. I think it's to, to have softened him enough to say, oh, I like her. I'm gonna let her go. I don't like, it's, it's great that he gets, um, tricked and it's great that he's going to reluctantly do it, but do it well because then when Kim blames him.

He's like, fuck you. I was gonna do it. Like, well,

Sarah Wayne Callies: but what's interesting is he's gonna do it, but he's not gonna do it. He doesn't wanna watch, do you know what I mean? Like he's gonna set it up, walk out of the room, come back in, come up the dead body. Like, I mean, he has

Paul Adelstein: a gun with a silencer. Right. And he chooses not to use it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Absolutely. And, and what's, and what I thought was interesting, and [00:27:00] actually I loved that ambi was not made of it because it became really subtle and I love the way you did it, is that you've got your hands over your ears and, uh, which is an interesting character tell in a way, which is like. He doesn't wanna hear if the door is knocking, he's turned off.

Like all of a sudden you realize like, oh, the TV was on as much for him. Mm-hmm. As for anyone else, I don't wanna hear this. Um, which I think is, uh, I

Paul Adelstein: think that's right and I don't remember what the discussion was about. I think it was 'cause of the kick, the, the, you know, well, 'cause otherwise you'd hear the

Sarah Wayne Callies: tub draining.

Paul Adelstein: You know, well it was that, but it was also, he doesn't want to hear her. Yeah. He wants to cover it up for the other patrons, but also he doesn't wanna listen to whatever's

Sarah Wayne Callies: going on. Right, right. Which do you is, you know, he's like, Hey, I really don't wanna do this, but I'm gonna do it,

Paul Adelstein: but I'm gonna do it.

Yeah. Do you remember, um, having to get [00:28:00] the chain, and

Sarah Wayne Callies: I remember it taking a long time and I think eventually somebody had to hold it. Uh, because a chain falls against the side of the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, what am I gonna like? Right, right. So I think eventually somebody had to hold the chain so it looked like it was floating.

Paul Adelstein: Do you think Karen shot that or did you shoot it? Do you remember? Like, was it part of the previous, like where there's like, okay, another day in the tank,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't

Paul Adelstein: remember. Or did you do it all at once?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, I don't remember either. There's a part of me that wonders if like, maybe did we do it the last day?

And they did that director Switch thing where it's like, okay, Greg's gonna shoot his stuff up until lunch. And then Uhhuh Karen, I, what I do know is that that was the first female director I had ever had ever. Except, except for, except for, uh, some commercials. I had a commercial contract with a company and weirdly, uh, it was very early in my career and it was a female director.

Um. And so [00:29:00] I didn't quite think of the fact that that was so rare at the time. And then Karen rolls up and I'm like, whoa, this is, this is new. But I, I don't remember, I remember it being a pain in the butt to, uh, to get that thing. And especially, yeah, like I wear contacts. I think I had to take them out so that they wouldn't like float off my eyes.

And I was like, Hey guys. So the funny thing is I am dead blind, so gonna need a little help here.

Paul Adelstein: Really? Yeah. For real. I don't think I knew that you wore contacts.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh yeah. I've had terrible vision since I was in fourth grade. Like terrible. Um, but you know, I remember really in that sequence

the things that I wanted to sell were, get your bag, get the keys, because you know they matter, but also like you better be panicked and you better be. Do you know what I mean? Like there's. [00:30:00] I remember there being a conversation. 'cause I was like, should I just grab the keys? Because I know that that's what he's after.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, I remember this conversation and

Sarah Wayne Callies: stick 'em in my pocket. And they were like, we'd like you to have a bag, because then you can pull stuff out of it later and it's like, you can have money, you can have an id. You can, yeah. Yeah. And it's like having a Mary Poppins bag. In a show like this

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Is

Sarah Wayne Callies: super, super helpful,

Paul Adelstein: right?

We don't know what, yeah, we don't know what's in there, but anything we need,

Sarah Wayne Callies: it's big enough that we can pull anything out of there if we, or hide something in it or whatever. Um, and so that was a little bit of a thing and I thought Karen shot it really well because it didn't look like a big deal. And then I really wanted it to feel like the jump out of the window.

Was terrifying. Like it was super important to you. Terrify that Sarah never looked like a superhero, never looked like I've done this before. Um,

Paul Adelstein: it doesn't,

Sarah Wayne Callies: and they, they, they did a great job with that. And the, again, the stunt woman who did that jump did such a good job of like [00:31:00] starting and then turning her body.

Yeah. So that and the wig, you could use the whole fall shot. Yeah, it's amazing. And, and then putting a,

Paul Adelstein: putting a camera in the car is tremendous.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I will say that the Michael Schofield origin story of I was an abused kid in the foster system, I. And spent so much time in the dark that I really, that I started seeing details and I started seeing the way things fit together and I started learning how to escape.

It is kind of wonderful because that's actually not the point of the scene. The point of the scene is that's right. Then this man came to save me. That's right. And I thought that was lovely, like really well done. To layer those two things together, um, and to give us a sense of like, oh, it's the broken parts of you that are.

Uh, high functioning and helping you get your brother out of this. Mm. Um, and you wouldn't have that part of your personality if your father hadn't left. [00:32:00] And you might not have survived it if he hadn't come back. Like, there's, there's something I think that's really beautiful about it. I thought it was a terrific episode.

Um, yeah. You wanna talk to Tony about it?

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Let's take a break and then we'll be back with Tony Denison.

Okay, we're back. We're back. All right. Uh, we're going to introduce Tony Denison, who played Aldo Burrows. Um, Michael Lincoln's father. Um, the closer he was on the Closer for 108 episodes, and then the spinoff of the Closer for 105. That's 213 episodes of the same character. His career going back in the math eighties when he was, had a leading role in crime story, one of the, uh, formative, uh, series My life growing up.

Michael Mann's show. Was it really?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I didn't know that.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, I loved it. That in Hill Street Blues. Oh, that's awesome. [00:33:00] Uh, he is done. Too many things to list here, uh, but it is worth mentioning he played a character named Westmoreland in the original Walker, Texas Ranger. Here's our interview with Tony.

Tony Denison: We just watched.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you for coming to,

Paul Adelstein: we just watched your demise in episode two 12.

Tony Denison: Well, I'm a methadone actor, so I had them really shoot me, but I, yeah, they did.

Paul Adelstein: I got over the wound

Tony Denison: pretty

Paul Adelstein: quick

Sarah Wayne Callies: though.

Tony Denison: Fair enough,

Sarah Wayne Callies: fair enough.

Paul Adelstein: Um, I believe one of your first appearances on the show, um, besides being in the.

Execution room in the viewing room was hit, was hitting me in the head with a, uh, fire extinguisher. Oh yeah. Yes. On the road. Yes. It was enjoyable. Day of work. I wanted really hit you. But they said that I couldn't do it. I, 'cause I'm not a methadone actor. I I You don't actor. I'm much, I'm just like a song and dance man.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I was like, you can't, he's really a musical theater guy.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. A musical theater guy. That's, that's just kind of how I'm like, you can't hit me with that thing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, [00:34:00] can I just, let me start. You've obviously had a huge career. When somebody says prison break mm-hmm. When, when you hear, hey, a couple of idiots wanna talk to you about this show, like what comes to mind for you?

What has stuck over the years?

Tony Denison: Well, I'm, I'm kind of used to that. I have two kind of cult, cult followings. Three actually, but the two that are the most important one's, crime story, which gave me my big break. Sure. That was, that was, I had done, I was sucking eggs before that in New York. Are you from, are you from Chicago?

No, I'm from Harlem, New York.

Paul Adelstein: But that was a shot in Chicago, or That was Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. I got

Tony Denison: cast out of New York. Yeah. And, uh, and you know, they, they didn't know what to make of me. I had no credits. I mean, I had no, no footage, nothing. I mean, just mostly theater.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Tony Denison: And, uh, but, so anyway, so that, so I get people coming up to me now, that show is off the air since 1988.

Right. And I have people come up to me, they go, oh, Luca, hey, this character's name was Luca. They go, Luca, you know, and, and some of them I think. You know, you seem like you were probably [00:35:00] like eight or nine years old when it was on the Yeah, it was. I was, but my dad loved the show. Mm-hmm. And it's like the times that I got to sit and watch TV with my dad was watching that show.

Uh, and uh, and wait, PS

Sarah Wayne Callies: is that on the streamer anywhere?

Tony Denison: Oh, yes. I think it's on Amazon. Okay. Okay. So there's still new

Sarah Wayne Callies: people coming to that show. There's, there's

Tony Denison: two, two years of it. And I mean, I'm telling you, um. The, the, I mean, the kudos I get on the street from people from that are insane.

Paul Adelstein: And that was a Michael Man show, right?

Wow. Michael man. Yeah, Michael man. Was it? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah.

Tony Denison: Oh yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, and it

Paul Adelstein: was Dennis Farina,

Tony Denison: God rest his soul. God rest Soul. Dennis was Dennis and I, and uh, and then the other part of, we were all sort of guys from a place called The Patch in Chicago. Yep. Uh, uh was Stephen Lang?

Yeah, of course. So the three of us were sort of like the main guys in it. And then, um, you know, and, and he was the, Dennis obviously was the cop, I was the mob guy. And, and uh, and Steven was the lawyer that sort of, you know, had a foot [00:36:00] in both. 'cause his father was a former, wise, wise guy or mate, um, numbers runner kind of guy.

Yeah. Yeah. He was a lawyer and um, you know, it was cool. But one of, I just gotta say, one of the cool episodes on that show was we had Miles Davis come on. I remember, you know, 'cause he's from Chicago. Yeah. So I'm thinking. You know, this is before cell phones and something, and Oh my fucking God. Miles. Take pictures please.

I never, yeah, I don't know where those pictures are. I says Miles Davis and, and Steven, the one thing that I'm so jealous of him, 'cause he plays a little saxophone. Oh, he got to play saxophone with Miles Davis. Oh. Sh playing, playing horn. And I'm thinking,

Sarah Wayne Callies: wow.

Tony Denison: I said, how did your head not explode? He goes, Tony goes, you have no idea.

I cannot imagine. You have no idea how nervous I was playing with David. What? Yeah. And then the other show is, is this show. I get people come up to me all the time, they go, Hey, Aldo. And I was like, what? Really? Oh, you're right. You know. Wow. And, and they, they, how come you weren't on the show more? And I said, well, I said I was doing the closer.

Yeah. At [00:37:00] the time. And it was really hard to travel to Chicago and travel to Texas. I wonder, so

Sarah Wayne Callies: they did overlap?

Tony Denison: Oh yeah. All the, every, every episode. Okay. I mean,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I wasn't sure if Closer started right after you left Prison Break, but No,

Tony Denison: no, no. Closer. I started the closer in 2005. Okay. And then that went all the way.

Then when it became Major crimes, I think I might even been, I think I might, I think it was like the, between both shows, but Major Crimes ended in 2017. So we were on that for like 14 years or whatever. Yeah. Wow. But the, um, but it was nice 'cause, I mean, I got the chance to go back to Chicago. To do the prison breaks.

And then, uh, and then you guys, uh, then when we moved to Texas, you moved to Texas. I, I, I came there a couple of times

Sarah Wayne Callies: and what was I, you know, what was it like for you? Like we, Paul and I talk a lot about, we all kind of were on different shows, right? Because there were so many different storylines. Yeah.

And like for instance, I never worked with you. No. Um, I mean, you were [00:38:00] in the viewing room.

Tony Denison: I don't even think we were on the call sheet at the same time.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, I, there might have been the viewing room scene Oh. In season one, but it was literally, like, it was, you were basically a ghost. Right. Um. What was your show like?

Like yeah. What was, you know, you show up, you've gotta create this fully baked relationship, right? With these two boys? Yeah. I have a question

Paul Adelstein: about that actually. But Go ahead. Go ahead.

Tony Denison: Well, okay. Well, uh, I, I'd never, I'd never met any of these guys, but I don't think, the only person I knew briefly for a mo a minute, I think was, uh, Stacy Ke I had met him.

Once or twice before, but didn't work with him. Sure. So I didn't know anybody on the show. And, uh, and, and, and, and both. The, both, well, I, the first couple episodes I didn't work with, uh. I didn't work it. Wentworth Wentworth. Right. I worked with, uh, I worked with, uh, oh my God. I just went Dominic. Dominic. Yeah.

Yeah. Dominic. Dominic. Dominic went, I worked with Dominic. So, um, you know, so he was very nice. He was a nice kid. And, uh, I call him a, well, he [00:39:00] was a kid to me. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and I had a, a good time with him. The stuff I did with him. And then when we got to Texas, you know, then I got to work with both of them and I had a really good time and you know, and I, I wanted it to do more, but then they, you know, it just got to the point where they said, this is a little crazy.

Yeah. You know, uh, 'cause it's schedule wise, if it was shot in, if it was shot in Los Angeles or anywhere nearby. Right. I'm sure I could have done more episodes because my biggest regret is like after the fact they tell me they cast Kathleen Quinlan as my wife. Yeah. Right. And I'm like, are you kidding me?

Yep. I mean, I've loved her every, I mean, I mean, I, I've mad cinematic crush on that woman. Yeah. Since like 1980 for God's sakes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a giant. I said, no, can't we work this out? You know? They said, well, you're dead. I said, well, well, so what people thought all the time, I mean. They come back to life.

Maybe they found some secret cures. I know. Yeah. We both

Paul Adelstein: know that. We both came back to life. Oh, you know, maybe I was

Tony Denison: a cyborg that got killed. I mean, yeah, they said, no, no, no, no. They can't come [00:40:00] back.

Paul Adelstein: That's Tony. When you come into something like prison break and you're like, um, uh, you're supposed to have this, I mean, you don't know.

You didn't know Wentworth as a kid, but Dom Dom you did, and you've had this relationship with him. How do you, do you go, do you do anything particular to. Prepare yourself to have, you know, this 30 year relationship with people, or you, do you, do you roll with it? Is it, um, I know some people, you know, wanna spend time together.

They wanna get to know 'em, they want to like, in, uh, invent this backstory for themselves. And some people just kind of are like, Nope, it's all gonna be there Right. On the right on the day.

Tony Denison: Yeah. You know, no, I don't know how, I mean, I, my, my acting co I had two acting coaches in my life, bill Hickey. Uh, from Pritz of course.

Yeah. You know, uh, and I mean, God knows in so many other movies, but that one a lot of people know. Yeah. And Julie Evaso, John Travolta's, mom and Alite Fever. Oh wow. They were my two coaches and basically what I learned from [00:41:00] both of them, you know, not sense memory kind of stuff, but I would just connect to certain things and then I would, um, envelop that person into it.

Mm-hmm. And somehow put their face on whatever generic person I was using or, or p persons that I was using. And then I would stay connected to that. And then I would like find little, little surprises, you know, like, like Hidden Secrets that like the one thing was he lived around the corner when I was living in Park Slope.

He lived in Park Slope. I didn't know that. And so we, yeah. Yeah. We had that to talk about

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uhhuh

Tony Denison: Wentworth. Yeah. And, uh, so, uh, but you know, I don't know. I, I just, uh, I don't, I don't, I don't know how I, I, I don't know how I work it. I just get this feeling that comes on me and I stay connected to that feeling.

Paul Adelstein: Mm-hmm. You know, which

Tony Denison: not to, this is sort of like a segue, but, um. Uh, a non, it's not a non-sequitur, I don't think, but I, I'm sober like 32 years. [00:42:00] And so what, what happens for me, I used to worry that when I got sober that I was gonna not be able to connect to, to the, you know, 'cause I used, when I used on crime story, I used to listen to the Rolling Stone Street Fighting Man and Right.

You know, can, you know all the Let It Bleed album and, you know, and, and uh, and gimme shelter and, but. Then after that I said, am I gonna be able to connect to the those? Then when I got sober, I connected to them so quickly that I couldn't wait for them to yell, cut Right. You know, to, to get the hell out of it and just start telling jokes or telling stories about baseball or something.

Um, so it was easy. It, it was easier for, I, I don't know how they, I, I guess it also helps that the, that they were great guys to work with. Yep. You know, 'cause sometimes you have to find this love and. Uh, this, yeah. Deep internal love for somebody who, you know, might be an, you know, an a-hole. But, uh, you know, and, and luckily I, I've only worked with one or two people where I'd say, man, [00:43:00] why don't you get outta the business?

You seem so frigging unhappy. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what are you doing here? Yeah. What do you doing? You know, how many millions of people want us would trade places with you like that? Yep. Yep. You know? So,

Sarah Wayne Callies: um, you know, it's interesting, we, uh, lane Garrison who played Tweener was on the show, uh, a couple of weeks back, and he said something very similar about getting sober.

That there's that concern that like, what if, what if this is a big part of my process? And it's the opposite, that all of a sudden there's a level of availability and, uh,

Tony Denison: yeah. It's like I, so I, I say I live between the words action and cut. Yeah. You know, and when I, when that they say action, I don't know where I go, I go someplace, especially if it's a dark character or anger.

Is, is is the preeminent theme in the, in the scene. Uh, you know, I, I don't know how I get there specifically, but I get there and I get there with such ferocity and, and verve that like, when they yell cut, I go, okay. You know, Hey, so anyway, how about the Yankees? You know? Yeah, [00:44:00] yeah. And can it

Sarah Wayne Callies: just drop away?

Tony Denison: Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: when you're done. Yeah. Like, do you have to do anything to kind of Whew, let that go, or it's just no programming?

Tony Denison: No, no, no. Maybe that's why I'm not working. The past couple years, no. Uh, no. I, nobody's worked in the past couple years. Nobody's worked. Isn't it weird? It's easy. You know, like I, the other day I was telling my wife, you know, I said, you know, sometimes when, when the phone doesn't ring for a while, it hurts.

It really? 'cause I just love it so much. 'cause you love it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it's not like a. It's not a selfish love. It's, I, I, I want to give, I want to give to the scene. You know, that's one of the keys for me in my, in my acting is what can I bring to this thing, not, what can I take from it? What can I bring to it, you know?

Yep. So,

Paul Adelstein: yeah, it's hard. Touch wind up. Go ahead. Sorry. Nope, please. Uh, I was just gonna say, I was just gonna add my Yes, yes. Agreed. It's hard to do something, uh, that you can't, you can't also, I mean, you can do scene work and you can go to class, but it's not like being on a set or on a [00:45:00] stage. It's

Tony Denison: you're, if you're a musician, you can sit home, practice guitar.

That's right. Or piano. That's right. Or you're a dancer or singer. That's right. You know. But when you're an actor, so what I try to do, and I don't do it as much as I used to, is what I sometimes this is gonna laugh. I'll, I'll get like a Shakespeare play. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Because I mean, with my sort of East coast, you know, flavor and my accent, it's hard for me to get cast doing Shakespeare.

But, uh, but I, I intimately know all of his pieces and, you know, a lot of times I'll, I'll read some of his, his stuff to myself out loud, and then I'll read it like with a funny accent, or I'll read it like it's a joke. Like, I'll do, you know, the beginning of Richard iii, like he's telling his joke. Let me tell you now is the winter.

I just, you know, and I'll do it like, just have fun with it, you know, so that I can have just riff on the stuff. Uh, and that's what I try to do. And you know, 'cause when you, when they're waiting for them to call you up and hire you, you know, you, uh, it, it could be a while sometimes.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. And you gotta, you gotta [00:46:00] exercise that muscle.

Like, well, our whole thing

Tony Denison: is the whole, our whole thing is the instrument. Yeah. You know, our whole, you know, head to toe is, is our instrument. Yep. Yep. So we gotta keep it in some kind of shape. And, uh, but I find when I do that with the Shakespeare stuff, or maybe I might even read portions of, uh, Dickens or, or Mark Twain, you know, and I'll read them like, you know, kind of like goofy, or I'll read them like, really serious, or I'll just read them with some kind of, you know, uh, malicious intent, you know, whatever.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, yeah. Like, like invent a motivation, even like, yeah, yeah. For, for one of those things. And like, use it. Yeah.

Tony Denison: But Shakespeare's the most fun to do. Not chek off. Not so much though. I like Chek off a lot, but, but, but Shakespeare is like,

Paul Adelstein: chek off's tough to do alone.

Tony Denison: Yeah. I mean, he's already depressed out of his mind anyway.

Right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. I'm gonna bring us back real quick, a couple questions about, um, Aldo, because there was a fan question from a couple of weeks ago. Oh really? Um, somebody asked about thoughts on Aldo as a father. [00:47:00] And I'm asking partly because like. In the last generation, our expectations of fatherhood have really changed.

Mm, okay. You know, like, I mean, I'm Gen X as far as the fathers in my generation, seems to feel like if the kid's alive and fed dude job done. Ah. Um, that was, that was it. And like, and that was great. Uh, but like, what do you, what do you think of him as a dad? Obviously he abandoned his sons.

Tony Denison: Yeah. He did it

Sarah Wayne Callies: because of something he believed in, right?

Like,

Tony Denison: yeah. How do you feel about him? I think we bogarted his family, you know, uh, Rick Blaine, his family. No, I, I, I had a, you know, I had a tough time with that, but I guess at the end of the day, like what I was thinking about with my character was it was a far greater cause

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Tony Denison: To protect my children and everybody else's children.

Mm-hmm. From, you know, uh, the forces to be and, uh. And so that, that's tough. But when [00:48:00] I got chance to get back with them again, that's what I played. Like, just like finally I'm back with them, they're alive. Mm-hmm. And, you know mm-hmm. And that's it. And I will die for them, which he winds up doing anyway.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, I mean, today, I mean, I, I, I, unfortunately, I don't have any children. My wife and I are trying, she's younger than me. So, uh, hopefully that'll happen. Uh, but you know, we have our cats and our dog and, and literally, um, I'm a pretty calm, reserved kind of guy, but you make a move on my family and, you know, you think where the hell this lunatic come from?

Yep. You know? Yeah. And I, you know, that's hardwire regrets. I have no regrets, no excuses for no nothing. I mean, it's like, that's it. I, and, and if you're a, if you're a dear, dear friend of mine. You know, I'm Sicilian, so I, you know, I'll go to the mattresses for my family and my friends. Right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Um, alright, we have one more que we have time for one more question for you.

It's a question we ask all our guests this year, and it's on [00:49:00] theme for this year's show. Mm-hmm. If you and your wife had to drop everything and go into hiding somewhere so that they couldn't find who the bad guys couldn't find you, where are you guys going?

Tony Denison: She would very reluctantly come along with me to Sicily.

Ah,

Paul Adelstein: that's a good place to go.

Tony Denison: That's where I like to go. When I first went there to visit, I felt like, what, you know, like I really believe in DNA 'cause when I landed in Katanya, uh, I thought to myself, I, I've never been here before, but I feel like I know exactly what's down that road and with, you know, so just, it was a connection and, uh, so I, I would definitely want to go back to, I'd go to Sicily again.

Paul Adelstein: Great.

Tony Denison: And, uh, I don't know if you've ever been there. I have never. You have? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's a really special place. Sicily, I mean, not Italy is like, the whole of Italy is wonderful for me. I fell in

Paul Adelstein: love. I absolutely loved Sicily. I just, I mean, totally taken. I mean, it's of

Tony Denison: the five, of the five, five [00:50:00] star hotels that they have in the entire country.

Two of them are in Sicily. Mm. So just really, and it's not a big place. It's like 150 miles across. Yeah. And, um, so it's, it's, but it's, uh, there's something about it to, for me, I, I would love to go, I'd love to go to Sicily. I'd like to Sicily and also the topography and the climate to some degree, very similar to Southern California.

Cool. Very similar.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you so much for coming and coming. Yeah, man. So good to see you.

Tony Denison: I, I don't know if you answered, I asked and I don't remember, where are you guys broadcasting from? Where, where are you? I'm, I'm in,

Paul Adelstein: I'm in la You in LA and, and she's in, uh, uh, British Columbia.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. I live in bc. Oh, really?

Um, so yeah, we moved up here, gosh, I, 17, 18 years ago. Um, so I'm in my basement and he's at his house and we just kind of have a chance to connect with folks. It's really been lovely, like sharing memories of the show and, um, talking about what it meant to people. It was, it [00:51:00] was, this has been beautiful.

Thank you so much, v being part of that. So you're in, you're in Vancouver? I'm outside of Vancouver. I'm kind of out in the woods. Um, I liked

Tony Denison: Vancouver when I, the few times I've filmed there, I like, I mean, I. Toronto I like a lot, but again, Toronto's great. But the winter's just like, what are you nuts? I mean, come on.

Yeah. Yeah. It's no more of that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Four months a year. Toronto's amazing.

Tony Denison: Yeah, I, yeah. I got hit with one of those like. Breezes that came up off the lake one time. Oh, forget it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Forget it.

Tony Denison: Oh my God.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh my God. It's like Chicago. Do you know what I mean? All of sudden, so I called up the wardrobe

Tony Denison: place and I said, I obviously didn't pack the right kind of coats.

And he says, well, what kind of coat you wanna have? And I, I said, when I put it on, I feel like it's July. Yeah, that's right. Be like a buffalo high. It would be naked under it. And be warm. Oh, and rest. That's when I learned the expression. There's no such thing as improper cloth, uh, bad weather. It's just improper clothing.

That's kind of true.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's, that's the motto of Canada, by the way. Yeah, that's the motto of Canada. Nice people

Tony Denison: up there. Nice people. So obviously thank you. Obviously. I appreciate it. You added to the number. [00:52:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: We're grateful. Um, we don't wanna be American, uh, but I think we could avoid that. Um, hey, listen, thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you so much. It was good. It was such a joy to see you.

Paul Adelstein: Really good seeing you. We hope you see you soon. And,

Sarah Wayne Callies: uh. Yeah. Continued success. Yeah. I look forward to seeing your, uh, seeing your handsome face on whatever it is. They're lucky enough to get you for next.

Tony Denison: Well, thank you. Right back at you times 10.

All right. Good to see you. Amazing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Amazing.

Tony Denison: God bless. Shout Tony. Ciao.

Paul Adelstein: Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He's great. We're

Paul Adelstein: back. Uh, yeah, he's great.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He's so great. Yeah. Um, and interesting. He's a character. Well, and, and interesting to hear that like were he not on The Closer, which was such a huge successful show, we might've gotten more of him.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It was like kind of a scheduling challenge that led to him leaving the show. Yeah. Uh, makes me wonder if there's additional. Tell you what, if there's anybody out there that wants to write additional fan fiction about what would've happened if

Paul Adelstein: the girls, if they all teamed up, if they teamed up,

Sarah Wayne Callies: had stayed around, maybe even picked up lj

Paul Adelstein: Ooh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah.

They could have started a [00:53:00] law firm called Burroughs. Boroughs. Boroughs and Schofield. Sorry. You'll, you'll write better fan fiction. Let's just do the credits. What do you think? Okay. Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Thanks for being with us. Yeah. Thanks for being, I'm excited about next. I'm excited about next week.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, season finale this week.

You

Sarah Wayne Callies: know what I forgot to tell you? What's that

Paul Adelstein: prison breaking with? Sarah and Paul is a caliber studio of productions. Wait,

Sarah Wayne Callies: do you wanna do the like, thank you for listening. We invite you to subscribe or no?

Paul Adelstein: Yes.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. Sorry.

Paul Adelstein: Uh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: what did you forget to tell me? Paul,

Paul Adelstein: I forgot to tell you that. Um, we were gonna invite all our listeners and watchers to join our watch party episodes.

You can watch a show live with us, uh, as we comment on it. Um. And we all, uh, also have some, oh God. Um, I was gonna tell you guys that, uh, we wanna invite you to subscribe to our Patreon, which is in the show notes of wherever you're listening right now. That'll give you access to bonus content, uh, the watch party episodes where you can, uh, watch along with us.

Each episode that [00:54:00] we talk about. Um, there's some fan fiction back there that's pretty amazing. Us reading it live, us reading it together, that we have reading it Live, which is pretty. Funny. Yeah. You're blushing already because of what it is. Some,

Sarah Wayne Callies: it's hard to read.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, yeah. So join our Patreon community, please.

And, uh, also, you know,

Sarah Wayne Callies: and if you are talking

Paul Adelstein: in a mug

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh yeah, yeah. The merch is available on a link in our Instagram. I've made sure that that's, um, case. And if you're on YouTube right now, thanks for joining us on video in whatever language the translation function is giving you. So. Great. Um. We're glad you guys are here.

It's super fun, uh, and also prison breaking with Sarah and Paul is a caliber studio production,

Paul Adelstein: and your hosts have been inmates. Sarah Wayne Call and Paul Edelstein.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Our producer is, nope, our prison warden is producer Ben Haber.

Paul Adelstein: Front man of our jailhouse rock band is. Yours truly, Paul Stein. Our

Sarah Wayne Callies: prison yard tattoo artist logo and brand designer is John Nunzio and Little Big Brands.

Check them out at www little big brands.com

Paul Adelstein: and [00:55:00] follow us on Instagram and YouTube at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at pb podcast@caliberstudio.com and call us at four oh one three p break

Sarah Wayne Callies: Prison. Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a caliber studio production. Thanks for listening or watching.

Paul Adelstein: Thanks for listening. Right. Bye.