250403 - ETMM Richard WillBuild
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[00:00:00] Liz: In series seven of events that made me, which is boardroom to box office, you don't get more boardroom than my guest today who became the CEO of one of the [00:00:15] world's leading banking families. So what is life like at the top? I'm Liz Taylor, and today on events that made me, you're going to find out my guest is Richard Bailey.

[00:00:29] He's the former [00:00:30] CEO of Rothchild and Co. And he's the non-executive director of many other businesses.

[00:00:36] Richard: I said, look, I, you go and you go tonight. For tomorrow, it will be papers.

[00:00:42] Liz: Richard has business in his [00:00:45] blood. He's a toughie, but he's fair. He's a no bullshit kind of guy, which I like, and he has a steel underlay.

[00:00:55] He told me how he formed his relationship with money at a very young [00:01:00] age.

[00:01:00] Richard: Both my parents came from essentially mining families. Um, and whilst I, myself and my sister had a very, you know, I suppose comfortable upbringing, there was never any money. My [00:01:15] mother in particular was always very conscious of that, so she had left school at 14, retired at 65, died at 67, and worked all her life.

[00:01:25] And it kind of gave me. A picture, if you like, of, uh, an existence, [00:01:30] which I did not want to live. So money was always a motivation and I didn't really know how, what or why that was going to happen, but it was always instilled into me, uh, if you like. So that was something which was really [00:01:45] important. So I, I went to a, what, what was a very good boys' grammar school.

[00:01:51] Small boys' grammar school, the Kings School in Ponti frat. Having been to a local, local to home, um, infants and [00:02:00] juniors school, which was basically populated by children and mining families, so very ordinary, nice kids, very ordinary king School was a real revelation in the sense that it gave me and my pals [00:02:15] the sort of education, which now you'd pay a lot of money for.

[00:02:18] So it was. 700 boys. It had an Oxford intake of about 60 boys each year, and most of the, uh, boys from there went on [00:02:30] to university or college.

[00:02:31] Liz: Oh, you're still in touch with some of them?

[00:02:33] Richard: Ah, yes, I am. Fun enough. Are

[00:02:34] Liz: you?

[00:02:35] Richard: Yeah. So they're all over the world, but the remarkable thing is that many of them have gone on to do great things.

[00:02:43] Uh, so there something in [00:02:45] the, in the, in the education there. I think was the real driver.

[00:02:51] Liz: I also think, Richard, that it was in our, and I say that I include myself. I think it was in our generation, I think that. [00:03:00] It was instilled into us that, you know, you had to, you had to work to get your money. I mean, I had a Saturday job at 14 and I came from a privileged background, but I was ne You had to work to get your money.

[00:03:10] Yeah. What made me giggle was that you are running this huge international [00:03:15] bank. You're doing massive deals for people, which were gonna come onto, but you failed maso level.

[00:03:20] Richard: No, I didn't. No, I didn't fail math level, please. You. No, what, what I was trying to describe was the fact that I, I did my, I [00:03:30] did my math so level and I got a two I think, if I remember correctly, but then I didn't do any maths.

[00:03:36] From then till I took it doing accountancy. So doing accountancy with all the statistical analysis and all of that, that went [00:03:45] with the qualification was a nightmare.

[00:03:48] Liz: And you, that was at pwc, wasn't it? Yeah. That was probably your first big stepping stone into the financial auditorium, so to speak. Yes,

[00:03:58] Richard: yes.

[00:03:59] I went to. [00:04:00] From Kings School, I went to Manchester University having had a, a year off, first of all, working on, in a beat club in Corsica and then starting around France for most of the, the remaining months of that year. And, um, I had a place [00:04:15] at Sussex. I. To do, um, oh, some ology or rather. And, um, I completely changed my mind and I got into Manchester to do English and American literature, and it was the best thing I ever did, to be honest.

[00:04:28] It was fantastic. It was a wonderful [00:04:30] course, wonderful tutors. And I think, as I always say to my kids, you know, it taught me to read and write, you know, and that was key, if you like, I think to a lot of what I did subsequently, because I think communication, as you well know, Liz. [00:04:45] Is just so much a big part of providing service, a professional service.

[00:04:51] It's all right being a good technician at the end of the day, you've gotta be able to communicate.

[00:04:56] Liz: It's interesting 'cause you're obviously a bit like a sponge. 'cause you [00:05:00] know, so far we, we talk, you mentioned that you were going to do an ology, whether it be theology or whatever. Then you did history, then you did English and, and it's, and that, and I, I think that's really very relevant because you are, obviously, it sounds very patronizing.

[00:05:13] It's not meant to sort of an [00:05:15] all rounder, but one of the things that you put. In the event she sent over to me, and it's so, so true is that PWC taught you that turnover is vanity.

[00:05:26] Richard: Yes. Yes.

[00:05:28] Liz: And that really [00:05:30] resonated with me. Yes. Because we all get sort of so immersed in how much the turnover is, but what the actual profit is.

[00:05:37] Richard: Yeah.

[00:05:38] Liz: So just fast forward a little bit from PWC as to how you [00:05:45] ended up at Rothchild.

[00:05:48] Richard: The interesting thing about Pricewaterhouse at that time, and I I know I was based in, or attached to the leads office, was that it had a, a very, very broad spectrum of clients. So [00:06:00] everything from textiles through potato merchants, engineering companies, cosmetics companies, chemical companies.

[00:06:09] So the, the experience that you got there was probably unrepeatable [00:06:15] today. I got involved, uh, in my later time after I qualified in what were, what they now call an insolvency department, insolvency practice of Pricewaterhouse, [00:06:30] and I ended up doing a job for Barclays Bank who had a bad loan out to a, a company, which is no, no longer exists.

[00:06:39] It was a public company called COPE Sportswear. They made menswear basically in Yorkshire. [00:06:45] Um, and Jeffrey Koch was, um, a bit of a mad entrepreneur really. And he, he'd gone in over his head. So we were trying to, um, sort this business out in truth.

[00:06:57] Liz: Richard, was he that big fat guy? Jeffrey Cope. [00:07:00] And he's dead now.

[00:07:01] So no one can have a Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I know what you mean.

[00:07:04] Richard: You know who mean. And, um, anyway, so, uh, Rothchild were acting on the other side, on behalf of the board. So we did this job and I can't remember how long it took now, [00:07:15] several weeks. I, and afterwards a headhunter actually contacted me, uh, and said, oh, um, I'm acting for Rothchild.

[00:07:24] Would you like to. I said in my ignorance, I said, oh, uh, [00:07:30] what to do? And they, and they said, well, to do corporate finance work. So I said, well, I'm really not sure what corporate finance in that context is. So, no, I, I went along, had an interview and they offered me a job and it [00:07:45] was about 50, 60% more than I was earning at the time.

[00:07:48] So I thought, we'll give it a whirl for two years and um, you know, just see how it goes really. And then sort of 38 years later I retired. You know, so it was a, you know, it was [00:08:00] bizarre. Bizarre experience really. And shift.

[00:08:03] Liz: But he was very supportive of you, wasn't he? Elin de Rosschild.

[00:08:08] Richard: He, Elin was a, a complete enigma really, in the sense that he was a very imposing guy.

[00:08:14] You know, [00:08:15] sort of six foot five, six foot six. Quite large had been a playboy in his youth. You know, he'd um, he'd gone out with film stars, models, you know, had, had a very, very privileged, uh, life, [00:08:30] but he was very awkward, cantankerous, difficult guy, very volatile. And, um, quite scary actually, when I first met him I thought, you know, bloody hell fire, you know, he's a monster really.

[00:08:44] [00:08:45] But in truth. I, I actually over time, first of all, got on with him, uh, 'cause I could kind of read him, I thought. And secondly, he was, um, became to mar to me anyway, very sort of, um, empathetic. [00:09:00] And he had the, I suppose, temerity, bravery, whatever you call it. After, I think I'd been there about seven or eight years and, uh, appointed me to the board, which was amazing to me, to be honest.

[00:09:14] Were [00:09:15]

[00:09:15] Liz: there many non-family members on the board at that time? Yes, there were.

[00:09:18] Richard: It was completely family controlled and, uh, most of my colleagues were, as you might imagine, at that time, public school, Oxbridge very male dominated. So [00:09:30] I was, you know, a little bit of a, of an anomaly really, uh, in. Particularly with my Yorkshire hard vowels, you know, there was a source of amusement to certain people, you know, BA graft and so on.[00:09:45]

[00:09:45] Liz: Maybe that's why you only ever ended up in Manchester really. Um, during that time you sent me through some really, really impressive challenges and deals and, um, some with clients of mine. So I know the, the people that you were dealing with and, you [00:10:00] know, John Whittaker, Dave Wheelin, and the, they're gonna get to the Dave Wheeler one shortly.

[00:10:04] But what would you con consider to be your most successful deal and why?

[00:10:10] Richard: That, that's really quite a difficult one because I suppose. [00:10:15] Found most satisfying were the, were, if you like, the most difficult ones, you may remember, Liz, but there was a, uh, a two year battle for John Whitaker over the takeover of Manchester Ship Canal.

[00:10:28] And it was enormously difficult [00:10:30] because it had a,

[00:10:32] Liz: I'm just going to, I'm just gonna interrupt you now because for the listeners, for the purpose of the listeners, John Whitaker is an entrepreneur, but he's probably most famous for owning the Rafford Center. That's what the listeners will name it for is Peel Holdings, and he owns [00:10:45] the Rafford Center.

[00:10:45] But, sorry, carry on. Carry on. Yeah.

[00:10:47] Richard: So, uh, John had spotted the opportunity, if you like, which I can come back to, but this, um, company and its board were locked in a very, um, [00:11:00] old fashioned shareholding structure, which is almost impossible to, to penetrate. And so it was a real challenge. And more than that, it had a, a major shareholder in a Nicholas.

[00:11:14] [00:11:15] His family had, they owned the Telegraph, and Nicholas was a pretty bright, difficult guy and put up a lot, lot of opposition to it. Anyway, to turn a long story short, John, John had seen the opportunity that the land attached to the Ship Canal, [00:11:30] the opportunity to develop all of that land where the traffic center sits is a good example, but much, much more than that.

[00:11:37] Much, much more than that. The center is, if you like, the most prominent, but in truth. The real wealth of that deal came out of [00:11:45] all the attendant land, uh, uh, right along the ship canal, right down to Liverpool. And the, the second one again for John, uh, was mopping up quite a lot of the UK ports industry. Uh, and again, I [00:12:00] suppose the most well-known would be Mercy Docs and Harvard Company.

[00:12:03] Again, it was a sort of sleepy, underperforming business. And, um. John, we managed to, to take that business over after a struggle. And, [00:12:15] uh, it was making, it was making no money really. That business, when John bought it, along with the other ports that we use pled over time, that business now makes that Peel ports said it makes about 2 50, 2 60 million of EBITDA every year.

[00:12:29] [00:12:30] So it's this huge business created out nothing. And it was a, if you like those, the two examples of John's. Incredible foresight and ability to spot opportunities and to take risks, to take, you know, big [00:12:45] risks in terms of both reputation and financial, uh, risks, which, you know, on a couple of occasions could have brought him down in truth.

[00:12:52] Uh, then it, but in reality, uh, paid off big time. Big, big time.

[00:12:58] Liz: Do you remember the party that in the Ale of [00:13:00] Man.

[00:13:00] Richard: I remember it extremely well. Uh, and, uh, well, I, I, John was somebody I, I worked for, for, you know, all of my career really. And someone who I, I liked and still like enormously. 'cause he's, uh, he's a very, uh, very [00:13:15] engaging sort of guy.

[00:13:16] Very funny, very eccentric in many ways. But he, uh, I suppose one of the things that was a, um, always in my mind, rather than business wise, is. For, for many [00:13:30] years. He used to sort of tease me because I, I ski, I left to ski and he kept saying, well, oh, you ought to come on one of our heli skiing trips. So, which he does with his boys every year or did do anyway, one year I finally said to him, I said, okay, [00:13:45] John, right that I'll go with you.

[00:13:46] These, these trips rules in Canada. So, um, sort of went, went along not knowing really. What was going to happen. Uh, uh, and it was help. It was hell. [00:14:00] He's

[00:14:00] Liz: very competitive. He's so competitive. Oh,

[00:14:02] Richard: yeah. Yeah. Always has to be first down, down this slope, you know? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Anyway, so I, I went through this this week and um, kind of got to the end of it and there was a [00:14:15] dinner at the end.

[00:14:16] When everybody sort of let their hair down because it's quite, it's quite a difficult athletic week really. And, uh, anyway, there were various toasts given. John looked at me and said, I never knew you had it in you. [00:14:30] And I, I got the award, which was Man of Steel

[00:14:36] Liz: there, and I very beginning. There's having a steel underlay.

[00:14:42] Yeah. Very quickly, very, very [00:14:45] quickly with the wi with John Whitaker because it's a long story. But yeah, I've flown into the Isle of Man to meet him for this party and as you know, he is very intimidating. It's not a guy that looks you in the eye. And I went into the house in the Isle of Man, which is a little bit, not like a [00:15:00] worline, but it's huge, you know, he is got his ballroom and everything else, and we sat and we had lunch and he likes a glass of champagne and I didn't have a drink and.

[00:15:09] And I put on this very beautiful brand new, and you'll know because your wife, Hillary, was a [00:15:15] good shopper, tallied in trouser suit. And he had this mutt, this dog that was all over me and the hairs were all over. Oh

[00:15:23] Richard: no. Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:25] Liz: And uh, well he took me in the other room after lunch and he sat down and this dog jumped [00:15:30] on, on my knee all over me.

[00:15:32] And I'm like, cringing in there. I gave him a fee and he looked at me and he gave me a fee of, he came back with five grand less.

[00:15:43] Richard: Yeah.

[00:15:43] Liz: And I said to him, [00:15:45] John, it's not a negotiable fee. That is the fee. And he turned around to me. He said, well, he said, he said, you know, he. My dog's never taken to anybody like he's taken to you.

[00:15:54] He said, so you've got the job.[00:16:00]

[00:16:02] Just tell me. You also mentioned, and I'm intrigued, Steven Hinchcliffe. Now forgive my in, in my ignorance, I don't know who Stephen Hinchcliffe was, but this was something that you flew back to [00:16:15] Sack somebody. I. Just tell me about it.

[00:16:17] Richard: Oh, well, Liz, it was worse than that. I had the family in the car on a ramp going onto a Ry.

[00:16:27] Down to, uh, the out to ski. [00:16:30] I ended up reversing off this damn ramp with all the traffic behind me to get off to go back into the center of London in order to do the deed. Much to Hillary's disgust, as you might imagine. The story was this, that, uh, Stephen Hinchcliffe was a very [00:16:45] prominent Sheffield entrepreneur, larger than life.

[00:16:48] You know, he had, if you ever went up to his offices, which was stately home, just outside of Sheffield. There'd be a line of Rolls Royces and Ferraris with, you know, with Hinch [00:17:00] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, you know, so massive ego, uh, this guy. Anyway, he had got control of a public company called James Wils. And James Wils was an old quoted, [00:17:15] uh, Sheffield engineering group.

[00:17:18] And, um, it got, uh, or this subject of a hostile takeover. By another, uh, engineering business. And we were appointed to [00:17:30] defend James Wils. And, um, I discovered through the good officers of a, um, an old now sadly dead friend, who was a, a foot in the door journalist for the news of the world in his, um, in his [00:17:45] parts.

[00:17:45] Um, he did some digging for me and found out a lot of call it not very nice things about, uh, sad. Which basically involved fraud. More to the point. There was some evidence of that going on [00:18:00] within Wilkes. So I sort of made the decision that, uh, from a Rothchild point of view, from a Rothchild reputational point of view, I didn't want to defend this man, or I didn't want to defend the business while he was in charge.

[00:18:13] He was the executive chairman. [00:18:15] Um, and so, uh, I gave him an ultimatum before I left on this trip. Anyway, he reneged on it. He said he would do it. He said he'd resign. He said he would go, 'cause I threatened to go to the papers with it. And he [00:18:30] didn't. He, he conducted a meeting. He went to, um, a press conference and gave him a load of blarney about why Wilkes was such a good business and he'd done such fantastic things for it.

[00:18:41] Uh, and so I went back into London, parked [00:18:45] Hillary and the children in a hotel, went into a, a meeting room. Rothchild offices in London. I summoned the, the brokers there who were, I think Rowan Pittman from memory to the same meeting. And before the meeting started, I [00:19:00] collared the partner from Rowan Pittman and said, look, you know, I need your backing on this because we're both gonna walk if he doesn't, if he doesn't go.

[00:19:08] And we will do that very publicly. And remember, we're in the middle of a very public takeover bid at this stage. [00:19:15] So anyway, you know, we went into the meeting and IFF gave another load of Blarney about, you know, why, why he wasn't gonna go and why he was so critical to the business. And at that point, I just said to him, said, look, uh, I delivered the second alteration.

[00:19:28] I said, look, I'm not hanging [00:19:30] about any longer with this. Either you go and you go tonight or tomorrow, it will be in the papers that we walked. And I looked at the guy at Roan Pitman, who by this time was sort squirming. And, um, I said that that's right, Robin, isn't it? [00:19:45] You know, and Robin sort of thought about it for about a minute and they said, yes, yes, that's right, Richard.

[00:19:50] And the guy went. As the guy went, but it was, it was, that was a, a tough old period because then we had to change the board reappoint [00:20:00] or appoint some people in order to carry on, uh, the defense. And then the other side came out with a loaded bile about, um, Wilkes now being run. And that was a, that was a, a difficult old, uh, defense.

[00:20:14] We ended up in [00:20:15] front of the panel on takeovers and mergers, um, where there was an inquiry. So very, very difficult. Anyway, to cut a very long story short, the, the guy who then became CEO, a chap called Arthur Wa and I became great friends [00:20:30] and he's still a great friend, uh, because I sort of backed him throughout this.

[00:20:35] Horror story, really horror story. And he went on and did a brilliant job with the business. Absolutely brilliant. So yeah,

[00:20:41] Liz: I started this podcast during lockdown because I was able to [00:20:45] access my black book 'cause nobody was doing anything they wanted to. Myself, my inspiration is a, is a podcast called Business Wars.

[00:20:53] And I dunno if you've ever listened to it. No, but it's like-minded. So you've got FedEx and DHL, and you've got Hersham, you've got [00:21:00] Mars, and they're the same businesses and it's the wars. It's how you know what they did and how they built the business, the ruthlessness of each of them. And it is really quite interesting.

[00:21:09] And you obviously have been very ruthless. You're certainly an intimidating [00:21:15] individual. Is there a business decision or business advice that you gave that you, in retrospect, regret?

[00:21:23] Richard: Yes. Uh, I, I can think of several really, where, you know, things that, uh, [00:21:30] you know, developed subsequently in a business which, you know, they, that either went wrong or they, you know, you know, one or two failed.

[00:21:39] But I always sort of comforted myself in, in the belief that I, you know, I did my best, I gave the, the best [00:21:45] advice I could on the day, and then it was over to management and, you know, board to carry those things out. And usually, usually it was the fact that they did, they didn't, they didn't follow the advice.[00:22:00]

[00:22:00] And I can think of a. Pertinent example of that, which was a, there was a, a quoted steel stockholder business based in Bradford actually, but one of the largest in the uk great business. And, um, it, [00:22:15] during one of the recessions got into problems with its banks. And, um, I was or did a, a lot of work in negotiating with the banks to make sure this business survived.[00:22:30]

[00:22:30] And, um. In the middle of all this, two of the directors who were brothers actually did something very silly in terms of a, a financial decision that was extremely provocative to [00:22:45] the lead bank, completely against my advice. And literally within 24 hours the bank had appointed an administrator. And I, look, I, I often look, look at that and think, you know, the silly beggars, you know, [00:23:00] it could have all been.

[00:23:01] So different. And sadly, the elder of the two brothers who was the CEO, he died not long ago of, of cancer. He was a client. He was quite a good friend actually. And we fell out over that because I, I was incandescent, uh, with him [00:23:15] Ha. Having done this thing, which I won't go into, but it was, it was a stupid thing to do.

[00:23:19] So, yeah. Yeah. You know, I think about those things. I suppose the other thing, which was still, it really sort of rankled me is the fact that, you know, we. Built up that [00:23:30] mid cap business within Rothschild, which I was telling in my notes to you, but one point was bigger than the whole close brothers. And when the, that last 2008 recession hit, it was mayhem.

[00:23:41] So, you know, I had a hundred and sixty five, a hundred seventy [00:23:45] people working within that business. And, you know, we, we had to sell businesses, we had to restructure the business. It was like sort of destroying the thing that you, you built really, and that was the thing that really, really. [00:24:00] Rankled me, and, and at the same time I had six other client businesses who were going through similar things.

[00:24:06] So not only was I having to deal with what was going on in, in the Rothchild business, I was having to deal with the, you know, the nightmares that these six [00:24:15] were going through. And, and that was very, very, very trying period. Let me tell you.

[00:24:20] Liz: Tell me about Dave wheen, because as you know, Dave wheen is a great, having been a client.

[00:24:26] Richard: Yeah.

[00:24:27] Liz: Many years. I think I, it was the first event I [00:24:30] did for him, I think was his 60th, but then I did parties for Wiggin and I did. All sorts of parties. And now I have the privilege of staying with him every new year at Maddox, which is Oh, right. In Barbados. Because [00:24:45] as a result I have a relationship with his daughter.

[00:24:47] But yeah. So tell me about the pies. 'cause I remember the part, the, I remember,

[00:24:52] Richard: well, you'll know Liz, that he, amongst other things, he owns a business in Wiggin called Pools. Pies.

[00:24:59] Liz: Does he own? [00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Richard: Yeah, I think so. And Dave, you know, he a great fan of. Call it plain eating, you know, so pies being one of his favorites and, uh, he would always profess that, you know, pool's, pies are the best pies you'll ever eat, sort of [00:25:15] thing.

[00:25:15] Anyway, we were conducting a transaction and there was a big meeting in his offices in in Wiggin, attended by a. Female lawyers from Link later and some [00:25:30] other people from Pricewaterhouse, one of whom was a female partner there. And there were all of these, you know, very talented able ladies. Were all a bit West End, if you know, to read.

[00:25:41] You know, sort of you wearing Tiger Girls, Kensington [00:25:45] girls, you know. Anyway, so we're having this meeting and it's uh, it goes on and on and on. Dave gets bored about halfway through the meeting, so he goes off, um, to do something else and uh, it gets to about one o'clock and Dave. Comes [00:26:00] through the door door and says, uh, right bright boys and girls at lunchtime.

[00:26:04] So we, we all, and I, I knew what was coming, but clearly this lot didn't. And so, so this lady is, you know, the white coat and the hat and everything from the [00:26:15] kitchen follows him through on a bloody gray trolley. Of course, what's in it is Dave proudly announced is pool.

[00:26:27] Just drop, you know, and then, [00:26:30] and then to cap it all, he said, if you don't like those, he said, there's t

[00:26:39] Liz: Richard. When I, I started going to Barbados for New Years, six, seven years ago, and [00:26:45] I was not in a great place and Jamie Van to join them. And I've, now, this is my seventh year this year, or eighth year? On the third year. And you have to bear in mind, he, the, the home is Maddox and it was owned by Oliver Mess.

[00:26:56] And it was where Princess Margaret honeymoon, so it's just, just [00:27:00] magnificent. Yeah, and he sits at the top of the table every morning and you have to sit there nine o'clock for breakfast, one o'clock for lunch, and seven o'clock for drinks at eight o'clock for dinner. Anyway, as I was leaving the second or third year, I went over to him and said, Dave, I said, I just really want to thank you for your [00:27:15] hospitality.

[00:27:15] I've had the most wonderful time. He said, oh, don't worry, love. He said, we take a ton. Who comes next year? I'll vote for you.

[00:27:28] Oh God. There's so many stories that we [00:27:30] could probably share, but I just want to move on to your philanthropic ride. And I know that you are, is it you that plays the piano or Hillary? It's me. No, it's me. And did you study music? No. [00:27:45]

[00:27:45] Richard: No. It was just, um, I've had a, a lifelong, uh, love of music. And both classical, modern jazz pop, if you like.

[00:27:54] So, um, it's something that's always interested me and I don't play the piano well, I wouldn't pretend to, but I [00:28:00] enjoy playing. So it's, and it's a, now I'm, you know, retired. It's a, it's a good, you know, it's a good brain exercise, uh, as well as being something pleasurable to do.

[00:28:10] Liz: Tell me, I want you to tell the listeners about Chathams because.

[00:28:14] S is, is, [00:28:15] you know, iconic in Mancaster.

[00:28:17] Richard: Yeah. And you

[00:28:17] Liz: have raised, if I'm right, and thinking 34 million

[00:28:22] Richard: for che. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

[00:28:25] Liz: What inspired you to do it and how did you do it? Uh,

[00:28:27] Richard: well, um, I got involved, [00:28:30] uh, with Ches, I suppose because of my. A interest in music, but probably even more important is my interest in education.

[00:28:41] And, um, a friend Paul Lee approached me and said, [00:28:45] oh, you know, would you become a treasurer some years ago now, uh, at chat, you know, we've got, you know, a number of things going on. And, um, I went along, uh, I've been to some concerts there before, I think. Anyway, I went [00:29:00] along, had a bit of a tour with headmistress and, uh, you know, just was absolutely knocked out by the talents of these kids.

[00:29:07] And for those that don't know, there are, there are basically four, four major institutions in the UK for educating [00:29:15] talented musicians, dancers. Actors and actresses, uh, of which Chet is probably the leading, uh, music school by a long, long way, probably in Europe actually. And it's 300 odd kids, and they are [00:29:30] there purely because of their musical talent.

[00:29:33] Anyway, so, um, I, I did this initial tour, went on the board of trustees, and then one of the head mistress said to me, oh, you know, the, the boys house. [00:29:45] It needs some, quite a lot of refurbishment. And it was in a bit of a state. I mean, it was like something out of, you know, the poor house, Charles Dickens, you know, Dickensian.

[00:29:54] And it was dreadful. So somebody had said, well, it needs about 2 million quid spending on it. [00:30:00] Anyway, so I got a, another pal who you may know lives Roger Stevenson, who's a, you know, well-known local, uh, very good architect. And Roger came up and had a look around these premises with me. And anyway, we went for a drink [00:30:15] afterwards.

[00:30:15] And, uh, I said, what would you do, Roger? He said, I'd knock it down. So, so I said, no, we can't do that. It's listed. So, uh, anyway, so that discussion then developed into a much grander plan, [00:30:30] which was to essentially build, um, a new school and then decant the existing classrooms into the new school. Uh, develop, uh, those areas into better accommodation.

[00:30:44] So on. Anyway, so [00:30:45] the project must run into this 35, 30 6 million quid project, so it's massive and beset with all sorts of obstacles because of the status of the, there are some medi listed medieval buildings within [00:31:00] the campus, as you probably know this. So that presented one problem. So it wasn't just the money, it was, you know, how, how do you actually get around this?

[00:31:09] Through two, I suppose, major events. Really, it became a [00:31:15] reality in the sense that Michael Ogilvy, sadly, you know, who died now a few years ago, Mike got involved and both gave money, but also more importantly, gave his time to sort of driving this [00:31:30] project. The second thing that really, uh, gave it wings was the fact that, um, they politician, Andrew Adonis came up to do something else, uh, with the city and he came a lot more, was persuaded to come along and have a look at Ches, [00:31:45] which he did.

[00:31:46] And he was like me, you know, sort of enormously impressed with what went on there. And somehow or other, he was in the Department of Education at the time. Um. The department to give us 9 [00:32:00] million quid that then, if you like, was a, the they the way or, or the cornerstone rather of the fundraising. And then we, uh, I appointed a, um, an MBA.

[00:32:14] From, [00:32:15] uh, the business school, Lucy, who was brilliant and she just, you know, got on the phones, got on the a contact list and we, we had all sorts of people come along. Sainsbury family, they, to be trust, a real sort of list of, uh, people who were [00:32:30] interested in music and had money. And, uh, you know, we, we, we raised the money essentially.

[00:32:36] Liz: It's that old saying, isn't it, Richard? It's not what you know, it's who you know. And for, for the listeners, you know, Michael Oglesby was Bruntwood. He, he [00:32:45] started bruntwood, which is a massive property company. And so, uh, it is, and it's using those contacts and sometimes, you know, not everybody is able to give millions.

[00:32:56] Um, but, but we are all able [00:33:00] to use our contacts along the way in order to, to be philanthropic in our own way. And I mean, CHES is, is just, they turned me down. You know, I auditioned for, well, I, I went, yeah, when I was about 14, 15 from Manchester [00:33:15] High, but. I don't think I was probably, I mean, it was good. I'd learned the piano from the age of four.

[00:33:19] I just think maybe my mental attitude was not going to be suitable for jets, more of a party girl. Um, so you've retired, you've got, [00:33:30] um, you know, amazing stories, mega, mega achievements, and you've got probably a bigger black book than I have, which I'm a bit jealous about. What are you going to do now?

[00:33:43] Because I doubt very much [00:33:45] that you're just going to sit there and read the times.

[00:33:48] Richard: Uh, well, to be honest, I, I sort of take the view that, uh, I, I've, I've done my, done my bit, call it. So I, I tend to look at it that way. I chair [00:34:00] a, uh, an investment fund which invests in essentially growing companies, which is.

[00:34:06] An area of, if you like, in the commercial world, which I really enjoy. I like, I like dealing with entrepreneurs. I like dealing with and seeing businesses [00:34:15] grow. And so, you know, I put my two Kenya with in for that and that, that takes me, I don't know, three days a month or something. Uh, and I got. A couple of other people involved.

[00:34:25] Bill Ako of Wayne Holmes, who, you know, Tommy Morris, you know, [00:34:30] Liverpool billionaire. And so they, they co-invest, uh, with us in that fund. So I do that, and as I say that, that gives me a, a sort of business interest. Uh, I'm still involved in education, so I sit on the board at [00:34:45] Withington Girls School. But to be honest, otherwise, I, I do my garden, I play golf and I go on holiday.

[00:34:53] Liz: And you're happy. And you're happy. It's interesting 'cause I've just got involved with you clan in Preston and I'm [00:35:00] going on Friday. I love mentoring and um, and I'm going on Friday to, to lecture to them. I mean, I haven't got the experience or indeed the success story that you have, but I do. I love meeting people.

[00:35:13] I love the [00:35:15] communication. I love, you know, that's my thing. And I think you are very much a people's person and it frightens me because we are not far off age wise. It frightens me because I don't want to stop. [00:35:30] Right. And I don't, you know, and it's very difficult finding that fine line between balancing your life.

[00:35:37] You know, in older age, I mean, I look at, you know, Iris or Joan Rivers or these women that lived wonderful, colorful lives to [00:35:45] the end. And I think, yeah, I find that hard. So it's interesting to, to listen to what, what you do and, and, you know, and what's on your bucket list. Well, thing you on, gimme one thing that's on your bucket list.

[00:35:57] One thing. [00:36:00] One thing. I don't want growing the in the garden or getting ready? No.

[00:36:05] Richard: Well, I'll give you two. One one is to go to Japan, which I'm gonna do next year to ski. And And two is to play the piano better. [00:36:15]

[00:36:15] Liz: Both Doable. Richard. Both. Doable. Richard, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. You're not that old.

[00:36:22] You've still got a lot of stories to share and tell. Thank you very much indeed. [00:36:30]

[00:36:30] Richard: Great pleasure.

[00:36:36] Liz: Thank you for listening to events that made me for more boardroom inspiration. Make sure that you listen to my conversation with Joe [00:36:45] Malone, CBE. To learn how she became a household name. I will be back with another conversation soon. In the meantime, do not forget to review the podcast. Follow the podcast, [00:37:00] and I'm on Instagram, Liz Taylor Consultancy.