Jeff Hastie, thank you for coming in today to talk with us. We were just talking before they started rolling tape and if we still roll tape, I don't think we're rolling tape anywhere. But you've done a lot of various things across many states over time. And why don't we just start with what you're doing now? And then we're just going to kind of backfill how we got there. All right. So currently I'm the COO Operations Manager for Gross Mechanical here in St. Louis. We're a heavy industrial contractor. Do a lot of pipe fabrication, work in power plants, chemical plants, pharmaceutical stuff, just a variety of different, more industrial type work. - Heavy, meaning like literally physically heavy. - Yeah, typically we're dealing with heavier pipe systems, variety of different piping alloys. We have the largest fab shop in the St. Louis area for pipe fabrication, one of the largest in the Midwest. - I didn't know that, I didn't realize. I've been there I guess the my basis for comparison. I think what's going to turn our industries in Paris, Texas Ah, so I don't have a good sense of it And I've then been some there but on both like way on both sides, right? I mean your shop there's a lot going on there. There is yeah, we we can run 20 to 25 welders at of time in the shop are 20, 25 people with, you know, half of those guys welding on turning machines doing different types of welding for various systems and alloys and all sorts of stuff. So do you find the gross mechanical mechanical is typically spooling or making parts for a specific industry that you guys sort of are you more into like an energy side or more into a structural side or whatever needs to be built side. Kind of whatever needs to be built, typically, we do a lot of our own fabrication for our guys in the field to install. But we also do a lot of fabrication for other places, for others to install as well. And it just really runs the gamut. We do a lot of work for P66 refinery, some of the power plants, Like I said, chemical plants, food grade stuff, it just depends on the need. And that's going to be a lot of, is that AML typically with like the P66? Yep. Okay. I think our approved manufactured list. Yep. So you've been at Gross Mechanical for how long? Coming up to seven months. Okay, seven months. And we're going to go through, this isn't your first seven months around metal. - No, it is not. - So this isn't, you're not Johnny come lately or Jeff come lately. Okay, well let's back it up because I did go through LinkedIn and saw that you went to California State at Sacramento, made the assumption that you always pry from California and we started talking and your story Well, a lot more interesting than I then, you know, well, I shouldn't say that because everyone who walks in here, it has a story that I was totally not expecting. You just have layers of stories that are interesting. So you were born in Athens, Georgia, moved to Charleston, South Carolina, and that seems like kind of where the story starts to pick up and you're moving around, doing different things, playing sports. So you have to go into a super granular. I'll pull us into something if it's like, wow, we got to know more about that. But OK, so let's pick up in South Carolina. How old are you when you get there? Oh, I was a little kid, toddler, growing up in the Charleston area. My dad was in construction. He was a pipe fitter by trade. Worked in all the heavy industrial stuff in the Charleston area. My granddad was a plumbing contractor on his own plumbing business there. So okay, my dad moon lighted with him Okay Your dad was born what like in the early 40s 48 48, okay, so and then you got granddad. So you guys covering quite a bit of time here Yep runs sort of in the family. It does run in the family. Yes, Okay, so you're there and and you're learning about what your dad's doing growing up and yep, okay From there he got into building power plants across the country. So I was about 10 years old. We started traveling Across the US building power plants. He's Mechanical superintendent at that point in his career and about every 18 months two years We've moved to another state and built another power plant. So it's like the non -army me breath pretty much okay and you said but just kind of to keep you guys you've got a brother to keep you guys sort of grounded and busy you guys they'd send you back to the east coast yeah to work at the marina yeah my aunt and uncle and my granddad was part owner of this marina on Isle of Palms right outside Charleston and summer times my brother and I would fly back work at the marina Commercial fish do whatever need to be done around there. I had another uncle There's a framing contractor in the area work with him building houses work with my granddad on the plumbing side Just kind of whatever it's like a lot of exposure to a lot of building. Yes at a young age And it ties into sort of your love for for ocean as time goes on. Oh, absolutely so you you You're kind of bouncing around your, so you, you know, Athens, Charleston, where did you kind of bounce around? I mean, not to name every single one, but maybe it stops along the way. We moved to Virginia for a while, then back to South Carolina for a little bit. We moved to Texas, Colorado, several places in California, moved all the way over to Maine. Holy shit, you guys are all over the place. - Back to California, yeah. - And this was all, is this all before you graduated high school? - Yeah, I graduated high school in Sacramento in 1990. - Well, I guess the good news is if there's some in your class, you just couldn't stand, you wouldn't have got to deal with it for that long. - Yes. - You know? But it's certainly trade off, so in the way. Is there any place that you really liked that you guys had to leave? leave. They were like, "I kind of like this one. That was a good one." You know, every place had its unique aspects that we really enjoyed. That was one thing I'd have to really compliment my parents about, was whatever was unique to that area, we tried to experience it. Right. Like, whatever the environment had to offer or otherwise. Yeah. So we lived in Colorado through a school program. I got to learn to downhill Snowsky. snow ski. You know when we moved to California a lot of winter trails and stuff for cross -country skiing so we did a lot of cross -country skiing up in northern you know. I've never been that tired in my life. Yeah. It's cross -country skiing at altitude. Yep. I mean I'd be tired at sea level but that's no joke. Yep that's a good time now. It is a good time. I mean I was blacked out for most of it like there's no oxygen in my body where you were you did you become an adept cross -country skier I'm not talking Olympics but like yeah you can get around pretty well yeah matter of fact we got into what's called telemarking so you're downhill skiing on cross -country skis so that's pretty interesting yeah every once in a while you go skiing you see those guys yeah and that's when you realize like what a scrub you are as a skier when you see some just technically traversing. Yeah, it's like a ballet on the ski slope. It's really pretty to watch. And I've seen, I don't know anything about telemarking. I think you've already doubled my knowledge of it. I've seen them. I've almost run over them, you know, but when someone's telemarking, what are they focused? Is that just an entirely a form activity? I mean, Clearly you want to get down a mountain. I'm sure there's some sort of utility to it historically speaking right But is it really just about a form that you're trying to achieve? It is it's you know Just the technique of making the turns and stuff since you know downhill ski you're all locked into your you know knee -high boots and Bindings that lock your heel and everything in with the cross -country ski is just your toe That's locked in so you can't turn and manipulate the ski like you do downhill. So you kind of have to push one ski forward and kind of bend down in order to get the edge and that's kind of makes it that crazy. A lot of hopping. It is a lot of hopping. Yep. And that's where it gets, it just becomes unfamiliar very quickly if you haven't done it. You're like trying to make a turn but keep speed. Yeah. And now you're hopping kind of diagonally. There's a lot of crashes trying to figure that out. Yeah. Did you ever snowboard speaking a lot of crashing you know when I was really skiing a lot was when snowboarding was first starting to come out those guys and they all every time I went by and they were just sitting on their butts on the slope really not doing anything so I was like this is kind of boring so I never never did get into it yeah that was you mean of our our era that was like just a hostile takeover yeah it was you know I mean the slopes were like so peaceful and great every once while you had some chump flying by you always had the kids with no helmets that were going like a thousand no no poles nothing like yeah down the mountain and you're like you know yeah hope they make it but you know get mad at them because they're literally they have no clue and no fear fearless yeah and you know my experience I've never skied past that kid who'd wrecked. He usually makes it, you know? He's just like, "Tip straight downhill." And they make it to the bottom, thank God. But it was a hostile takeover, and we were of the age to where I learned, I grew up learning how to ski. I reached an age where I was like, if I want to get better, I was like 23, I was actually living in California, and I was like going out to Tahoe and I was like, if I want to get better, there's a really to reach the next level and I'm not going to the Olympics. So what do I want to reach it for? But I'll probably going to hurt myself. Yep. You know, if I reach up for that. But so skiing was getting kind of boring, because I wasn't trying. I was like playing it safe. Right. So I was like, maybe I'll pick up snowboarding to kind of, because I like being out here. And I'll have a Challenge, but I won't be trying to fly off cliffs. It'll be just as challenging, but I'm still on the ground. Yep I don't know how to do it But that was a lot of falling there's quite a bit of falling my wrist still hurts Oh, yeah, it clicks still to today, but Telemarking is a It's it's just really neat to watch because it's so technical. Yeah, are you good at it? No, I haven't done it in years now I used to be okay, okay like you get down without wiping out the thing. Yeah, is it like that? Is telemarking like that where you we need downhill ski there you're on the edge a lot like you might wipe out right is telemarking is that feeling present? Yes, it can be yeah it's not as fast as like downhill skiing but it's so it's a different feeling of being on the edge, but yeah, there's-- - It could be, I mean, on average, probably not as catastrophic. - Not as, well, funny story, my dad, my brother and I were skiing in Maine, actually, and my brother and I were downhill skiing, and my dad was telemarketing that day, and it was an ungroomed, natural slope, And we just got a bunch of snow and it kind of got a little wet and he got off Where everybody had skied and packed the snow down and he hit some like really wet snow. Yeah, and He just came to an abrupt stop and like with his heels unlocked his face went right between the - two skis And he just face planted And he had a big beard at the time and first I was like, "Oh, shit, I think my dad's dead." 'Cause he wasn't moving, yeah, he hit pretty hard. And then I see him start moving, chuckle in, and then he kind of gets up and his face is full of snow. - All Santa Claus stuff, you're like relief and laughter all at one time? - Yeah, it was a memorable experience. - Yeah, when you see your dad, like really eat it, it's something else, like here, it You know, they've already hurt themselves so many times, by the time you're starting to remember things, it doesn't happen as much. - Yeah, exactly. - 'Cause they're tired of fucking themselves up. So they start kind of laying up. So when you see something like that happen, it kind of knocks the wind out of you a little bit. - Yeah. - I'm glad that he was okay and everything. - Oh yeah, there's many more crashes with him after that, but. (laughing) - So you're out, so you guys are enjoying the environments that you're in so your parents nothing's really sticking out you just kind of made I'd say they made the best of it but you guys jumped in and jumped out yeah I mean it really was like that you know and Maine was absolutely beautiful we were up in the middle northern part of me there there was I mean you could literally get on snowmobile trails and go for miles and never cross another paved road you know We had a friend that had a cabin on a lake up there and we from her cabin You could go into Canada several hundred miles and never cross a paved road Really? Yeah It's I bet you a good bit of it still like that. Oh, I think so. I mean main is I Mean, this is very Missouri century, but it feels like so far It's a bit of a hike so You ended up going to college, so you graduated high school. Yep. You told me you were a football player. Yep. And what did you play? What positions were you? Running back, alternated, tail back, full back, and then strong safety on defense. What offense were you guys running? T full house, wishbone, power eye? More of a power eye, typically is what we ran. But, yeah. And that was out in California. Yeah, that was Sacramento area. How was the talent out there during your era? Was it what I mean the California, Texas these different places typically have like our Conference was fairly competitive. I can't say we had a lot of NFL level players come out of there But yeah, yeah, there were there was some good talent in there enough to keep you on your toes Oh, yeah, you know any good hits you remember Remember? On me? No, well, you play-- let's take on the free safety side. Yeah, that was strong safety. Strong, sorry, strong safety. Yeah, I mean, that was your job. Guys, not even look in. Yeah, you're the hit man, you know, so-- That's a fabulous position. Yeah, there's too many of those to count. Well, it's great, because you know, linebacker, you're really in a lot of traffic. Right. So you don't get sort of that sort of bird's eye, like, there he is, and just heat -seeking missile. Yeah. It's just like right in the earhole. Yep. They never saw it coming. Yep. That was the fun part of strong safety. And that was an era when, doing that, there was nothing wrong with it. Oh, no. The coaches were a good hit. It was encouraged. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I'm not going to hung up on CTE, but I will say that that was not much of a concern, though. No. You No, like I only got my bell rung four times that game. It was great. Oh, yeah, I remember the whole second half Yeah, exactly, right. Hmm. It was fun though Can't move the next day. Oh, yeah, especially when somebody give you like a good clip right in the back Yeah, or something and you're all messed up. Did you want did you want to play college football? Or you kind of had enough and I did actually for you did yeah for Sac State for a a brief period of time. - Yeah, and how was that? Was that a big step up? I mean, most people that end up going play college football realize it makes them questions their actual love for the sport. - That's kind of what it became. It was not fun anymore. It was more of a job. And then you start looking at it and you're going, I'm not gonna go to the NFL. So why the hell am I doing this to my body? You know, why am I taking these shots and concussing myself, and so. - Yeah, and the guys who do it love the sport. - Yeah, and I absolutely loved it, but at some point-- - They like double love it. - Yeah. - It's, or they, like I loved hitting and stuff like that, but they, there's something different happening there. - Yes, there is. - You know? - Yep. - Or they, or it's a non -option for them, where their parents or you know maybe like it's just not even an option even even if they're not on scholarship like you're playing football right you know but I remember I had the same thing which was playing and in college and I was just like what am I doing yeah literally yep what am I doing right now yep exactly right so you hung up the cleats I did Uh, what'd you do? So what'd you study undergrad? Well, I was studying business at the time. Um, I was in law enforcement. My goal at that time as I was getting into law enforcement about that time was, um, to be a chief of police somewhere at some point. So a lot of my studying was towards city management, that kind of thing. Okay. Uh, - Okay, and were there was a time when you were looking into the vet stuff? - Yes, that was prior to coming out of high school. - Oh, it was, it was early. - Yeah, it was like my, I always wanted to be a vet as far as I can remember. - What, do you remember why? - Combination of a couple of things. One, like we grew up in the country, even though we're in the Charleston area, out in the country, around a lot of farm animals. My dad was studying to be a veterinarian. That's when I was born in Athens. He was going to the University of Georgia studying veterinary medicine. So I remember him having his old merit manuals and stuff from veterinary stuff, school that I would read and just kind of really intrigued me. - I've inspired you, yeah. - Yeah, so that was my goal into high school. Then I worked for a veterinarian for a little while and had a bad taste in my mouth, so I pivoted. - So they went out to go into details 'cause it's a memory that made you pivot. But basically, you guys had a disagreement on the approach, what's your role here and how do you do it, meaning that maybe, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but maybe ethical issues or differences? - In my opinion, there are some definite ethical issues on some of the treatment around animals, so specific to euthanasia, but yeah. - Yeah, and so you, and that experience, it sort of tainted it for you. - Completely tainted it, yeah. - Because you knew that - This isn't the only guy probably doing this. - Right. - Okay. - Yeah. - It wasn't the guy up at Petsmart all the time. - Right. - You know, who was hanging out with Spot. - Right. - Okay, so these are, and these were big animals, or? - Dogs, cats. - Okay, so like a family vet. - Yeah, yep. - Okay. Yeah, that's one of those things where I mean, I've had to put down dogs in my past, which is, if you ask me, were like my two worst days. It's like those two days. - Agreed. - I mean, cried like a baby. - Agreed. - Both times. And they come in, they're like, what do you wanna do? And I'm like, well, what I want right now is for you to fucking leave this room because this is the worst day of my life and you're interrupting my good cry. Okay, I'm trying to put some closure here. But it's one of those things it's like, I don't really even wanna know what happens after this point. Okay, we've got this dog who's been euthanized and I don't wanna know what happens. I'm gonna leave the building. I'm gonna find a really cute puppy so I start to forget about this puppy. But it's a truly, I have friends that are vets and actually two and one of them went through all come a vet and you know he also has a yeah I can want to have a family do all that stuff when we're younger he actually did a lot so we graduated college together he hadn't taken the proper pre -rex to be a vet but he wanted to be one so he went back I think it went to Auburn to take all those pre -rex so it took a couple years out of his life to do that and then he goes to vet school and five years after he's like - This is not an easy way to make a living. - No, that's not. - He's like, this is, as much as I love it, I have different goals and these things don't align. So he had to hang up the stethoscope and move on to other things in one other person. Had, you know, they were part of the family that was owning the vet clinics. So at least they've kind of come into, there was a path to an ownership stake, You know, which is a slightly different deal. Yeah, that's very different So all that to say not it ending up a vet is you know two of the people I know one decided after all that not to do it. Yeah, that's yeah That was kind of my dad. He was in vet school and was getting to the point of you know He'd done all this prerequisite work and was getting into the you know actual medical side of it and he was started talking to some people and he's I'm only gonna make this much money being a vet you know at that time that was in the 70s yeah you know he's like I can go make more money doing construction work so that's what led him into what he was doing which probably less of the emotional roller coaster that being a bit I mean I know I'm hardened over time. Yeah. Or else I couldn't do it. Right. It's just too damn sad. Yeah. So anyway, so you, you, unfortunately, I guess, I guess it's fortunate that you learned when you learned because you didn't get too far down the path. Yeah, I'm glad I figured it out when I did. Yeah. Yeah. So you had to, you had to attack at that point. Yes. So where'd you go? Would you, so now you're going to college, I guess now? Yeah, did that experience occur in college that that experience occurred before college And that time as I started into college. I was just taking taking prerequisites Yeah, it's when a friend of mine was in law enforcement Said you'd be really good at this. So I went and tested that out And when they said you'd be like what were they that that I think personality was like her biggest driving factor okay behind it it takes a takes a certain skill to do that job you know yeah and I mean I'm thinking that otherwise a good person but but also possesses the intensity when needed to do it yeah and the ability to talk to people mm -hmm you You know, that's the key in any of this is being able to communicate with people at various levels. I mean, sometimes you talk into homeless people on the street with, you know, no education and the next call, you're talking to a doctor, you know, somewhere, so you have to be able to translate your ability to communicate with people to levels levels that they understand, so. - Okay, and is that just something, had you thought of that about yourself before? Or you're just like, well, yeah, I guess I am kind of good at that. - No, I think moving around and just meeting all these different people and stuff growing up that kind of developed, and I never thought about it at that point 'til actually I got into the field of it and said, many people, You know training officers of different things go man You really have the gift for gab and being able to connect and communicate with people and You know talk my way out of more than one fight, you know just being able to Talk people down and go, you know, let's do this different, you know, mm -hmm. And Yeah, I mean you had to change gears a lot growing up. Oh, yeah, and even it's all in the US But definitely different cultures everywhere. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So you had to kind of get get with that. Yep. So you you got it on on a on a tip that you might be good at something. Yep. And so did you did that cause you at that time to work your way really towards police or law enforcement like in earnest? Yeah, that was any immediate flip for me at that point. It was literally my first ride along I did was for the little town I was went to high school in and just north of Sacramento and it was a Saturday night and it was back when the TV show cops was real popular. Remember, yeah. And this was a small little town nothing was going on and we had an alarm call at one of the local schools and so it was wide open all the way around it so the officer was just driving around the school and he let me out And I'm checking doors for him as he's just like hand you a revolver and like yeah, no no God Just go pulling that door for me Yeah, and then we got done with that call and it was close to eight o 'clock on Saturday night So he had some paperwork to do so he parks the car puts a little portable TV on the dashboard We watched cops while he wrote his reports really and That was really the only call for the day You know, on that, but I was like, man, this has so much potential because you never know what you're going to do. You know, it's not a mundane job at all. You don't know what's going to happen. Oh, you're you you're largely responsive. Yeah, for a minute to minute. Yeah, it's whatever stroll comes across the waves or everyone to say it. And that was intriguing to me along with that that team environment that you develop from sports and football. Yeah, that that is a big loss of quitting sports is is that kind of all those guys. Yep. Aren't there. Yeah. Yeah. Even when you leave, you know, law enforcement, you know, it's same thing. There's like this void there. It's a real thing. Yeah. So you did the ride along. How old were you on that ride along? I was 18. Okay, so you did that and that kind of further set the hook like yeah, it wasn't didn't discourage you No, that night was it that set the hook on me and then you know I had some other ride -alongs with were a lot more exciting than that So you've got to got to see the other side of it and yeah And would you just go pound on the door at the police station like how'd you how'd you get those rigged up? I started taking night classes at a junior college there for law enforcement while I was going to Sac State They had a reserve officer program is basically what it was Trying to just test the waters a little bit more completed that got hired on as a reserve officer a local agency outside Sacramento and at the same time Back to the animal thing. I Was thinking about law enforcement combining that with animals and going into fishing game. Okay, so I went to the fishing game Academy Which was law enforcement accredited, but there was like an extra several weeks to go over all the fishing game Is that something you could do where you were living? Yes, okay But at that time there was a big hiring freeze at fishing game And they were bringing a bunch of lateral officers over from like state parks and different things. - Consolidating it up a little bit. - So that ruled me out for fishing game at the time, so I went conventional law enforcement and ended up working full -time for the agency I hired on as a reserve with. - Okay, so you were, let's talk about that. So were you, what city or township or municipality were you first started, when you first started? Maybe you were there the whole time, but where'd you start your career? - There There's a little town called Auburn, California. And that's the one outside Sacramento? Yeah, just west of Sacramento. OK, were you there for your career? No, I was there about two years, and then I moved to the Bay Area to Petaluma, California. You did, OK. And did you-- we talked about this. Did you start-- I don't know the proper terminology, so you got to bear with me. But I'm going to say as a Mm -hmm police officer and then canine police officer were you a canine handword from the jump or does that something that came in? Along the way that came in along the way you kind of to earn the position for that and Have opening for that Auburn had a canine program. They had one canine officer. So as soon as I was able I started working and training with him and So I would be the dummy on taking bites from the dogs in the pad. Oh, yeah. Yeah That's the way you start out. So you gotta see if this kid really wants this and that's exactly it That is exactly it. Yeah, and so the one I transferred to Petaluma. It was the same thing They had two different they had two dogs at the time So I started training with them getting in the bite suit taking bites and working with the dogs Byte suit that those are probably were homemade when you were doing that. No, they were or there were real things They were real things. Yeah. Okay. It so we got we got a jump down in this canine. Okay, so I See canine police officers walking around malls. I see them I was at Six Fags last summer and saw one at the at the entrance actually sniffed out a guy who's bringing some weed into the Place or something like that. So you see them around, every once while you see them fly down the highway past you. We know the stories that we see about guys who are in the military probably doing, you know, similar functions. So let's back up with what is the K -9 unit? What are you doing when you have your K -9? When someone shows up, what is the role of you as a K hand or like what did you and your dog as a team what do you guys do that really depends on what you're getting involved in okay highest possible level to smell things attack things yes so it depends on the dog and what they're trained for cross -train you can have dual -purpose dogs that are trained for protection work and then also narcotics or bomb you can have just a protection dog, you can have just a bomb or just a drug dog, it just depends on the personality of the dog and what your goal is. Ours were dual -purpose protection and narcotics -trained. Protection. Give me an example of a protection scenario. They would do apprehension, protect the handler if we could send them through apprehension. Okay. That's what I'm trying to clear out. Who are we protecting? So, Because in my head and this is the wrong terminology in my head up think okay That's an attack dog at your command being like they are which is protecting you correct But is it fair is that almost taboo to say is that so wrong? It's taboo to say or can I think of it that way it'd be fair from a Outside view absolutely you could see that as an attack The dogs are trained that this is fun. This is a game for them. Mm -hmm. So this is like throwing a ball Yeah, this is all about Just being fun You know if it wasn't fun for them, they wouldn't want to do it and they wouldn't be so good at it So it's really just encouragement and build up and making this a fun game for them Now there are aspects of protection work that require a tough dog because sometimes if you're apprehending the suspect, they'll turn and fight with the dog and do different things like that. So you want a hard dog that's going to fight through that. They like to have a lot of fun. Yes, exactly. Right. Yeah. So but the initial training and all that is, you know, like from a puppy, you're having a bite and hold like a towel and you're playing tug -of -war with them and giving them commands. So it's just, it's a game. It's just being fun. So you have protection dogs. You have narcotics dogs. You have explosives. Do you say explosives? Yep. Explosives. What other cat, what other category is there? Oh gosh, there's a lot. Yeah, that's, I mean, if you get into search and rescue, you know, you have, you know, people that find cadavers, you know, dead people, trained to find people over water, over certain circumstances, you know, with natural disasters and terrorist attacks and different things, you know, you have a lot of these search and rescue dogs that are in rubble trying to locate people that are alive and then other dogs are coming in afterwards trying to, you know, do the recoveries. It's just, They're amazing animals, and so it's just do you remember any moments when you were You'd been around dogs. I mean if for no other reason you grew up in the US and they're done We always had dogs growing up and But that moment you're like holy shit, they are really good at this I do you have a moment like you tried to challenge the dog with like a hey I hear smell these clothes and you wouldn't hit them or something. You're like holy shit. I can't believe that dog just did that. Yeah. My one of my dog's specialties was tracking and we did a probably a two, three mile track one night on some suspects that would stolen a car. This was a live thing. This was a practice. Yeah. No, this wasn't practice. This was live. Okay. And just and we end up apprehending them. But it was just like my god we went this far just by sniffing sidewalks and yeah or whatever yep yeah that's it's amazing two miles a long distance yeah I used to be in shape then because we'd have to run when he was on the track for what it's worth I think if you do in shape right now no you're still in shape around Um, so had you not had the dog with you, would that, would that have occurred that night? Would you have found them? No. No other way. No. Unless we had a helicopter or something up, but yeah, but we didn't have that support. Okay. So that those people get away at least for that night had, I don't know the whole story, but at least presumably that night they would have gotten away. Yep. That's pretty cool. Yeah, so when you started working with the dogs Did you have to learn how to train or is this something that came in a I mean I are there there's probably at this point It's fairly formulaic way to train dogs. Yes, yeah in order to be a canine handler You had to be certified so we had a 10 week training course that we worked with the dogs specifically learned all the different techniques from You know obedience and the bite work and narcotics detection and you know everything that we were working on doing Get certified through the state You and your dog because your dog has to pass qualifications as well. They're literally partners. Yes. Yep I mean you classified as a team. Oh Absolutely, I mean that was that was my buddy. He went home with me every night, you know That's high -risk stuff. Yeah, you start to love it so much. Yeah, best job I ever had So it is not at all what you're describing me is not what kind of I think maybe people joke about but Maybe I think of these dogs. They're training is really rough and tough Here's like this piece of meat and you know hitting them with a stick or something like so It's not like this horrible off it probably can be but you guys aren't doing sort of you said it's more of a game or it's game It's fun for them, you know, you do test them with certain aspects, you know, you challenge them ready for the job. Yeah But 95 % of it is is all fun, you know, if you If you if it becomes an abusive environment for them, then they're not gonna want to perform so yeah, and attacking or protecting out of her I guess they wouldn't be protecting at that point maybe they would be attacking yeah just kind of out of rage yep absolutely and not thinking as clearly as they otherwise might have been so talk attack dogs for a moment so we see German shepherds a lot now is and you you had German I had a Belgian Malinois. OK, Belgian, which I maybe could confuse for a part German shepherd. They have similar kind of features, to a degree. Yeah. With their ears and. They have a similar head structure. Yeah. Malinois tend to be a little smaller than the shepherds. And their body coat is a little different. Shepherds still have the dark brown and the black and and all that. The standard Malinois is more of a lighter tan or a tan kind of body and those have the black muzzle, black mask on their face. Well, so I was thinking, I think I see German shepherds a lot. Is that sort of more of a branded thing where like, oh, you just get a German shepherd or because I've had boxers and boxers seem like really well designed for that, like they were, they were bore hunting dogs. Right. They're very strong and they like to have a lot of fun. And they also are physical. Yes. And so I think why would that dog be better than that dog? Now I'm like, well, maybe a boxer can't smell like that dog. Maybe that's in the interns of that dog or whatever it is. But what are these physical or mental characteristics that, that make a German shepherd or the Belgian prime for this type of work? - I think that just goes back from eons of training. All of them, most of the dogs that you see in law enforcement and military are herding type dogs for the protection at least. And I think it's just kind of bred in their nature. They're also extremely intelligent. I mean, if you've ever looked at a German shepherd in the eyes or even a Malinois, it's like there's something going on back there all the time, you know, it's not like hanging out with a cow, right? You know, so that they're always thinking and troubleshooting and, you know, trying to figure things out. So it has to do with the intelligence and just the some of the natural instincts of the herding hurting abilities and just, you know, some of their so a boxer being primarily having been bred for hunting. That's that's a different enough mentality, maybe versus a herding dog. Yes, absolutely. And they were used, you probably maybe know more about all these histories than I do. But for instance, World War One, a boxer was used, they put spools of cable on their back. - Yep. - And they ran it from trench to trench. Now, maybe every dog that you get their hands on was doing that. So I don't know if that was a box or special thing. German Shepherds, I'm assuming of German origin, Belgian sort of France, Germany over there, doing the same sorts of things. - Right. - Were they working dogs in that respect, do you know? - Oh yeah, Yeah, the Malinois, you know, German shepherds have been around for hundreds of years, same with the Malinois actually. I forget what year it was, the Malinois were getting close to going extinct, and there was a, the breed was going away, and there was a scientist over in Belgium who loved the breed, and he started rebuilding the breed back in, I think, like the 17, 1800s and re -establishing it. really so he traced their genealogy yep and whatever else ology he had to study yep to reconstruct them yep is that when the Belgian Malinois became a thing yeah I'd say more so over there and they started getting back into the herding you know with the farms and different aspects of that life it probably wasn't until Probably the 90s that you really started seeing the Malinois in the US and where they started importing them in for protection military work law enforcement stuff. So outside of the law enforcement world, what do you think you're like the three best breeds? Oh Man, that just depends on what you're looking for. What you want. Just a buddy. Just a buddy You can never go wrong with a lab As far as just a buddy, I mean, they're good family dogs generally, you know, they're just kind of a Yeah, pretty much honestly Probably the best dog you'll ever find is some mixed breed of the pound that just needs some love right that's probably your Family best family dog you'll ever find them and overengineered and they want to be part of the family. Yeah, that is probably your best dog There is is there such a thing we hear these things, but is there such a thing is a breed being sort of To in bread is that a thing? Oh, yeah, and they'll start having health problems and stuff, you know They relate to that but they do okay because they the the relations are getting a little too familial. Yes, okay Yeah, I guess - I guess that makes sense. All these guys really call a lot of like and they're dying really young type of thing. I mean, you take a dog like a boxer, which is, you look at, if we're saying everything comes from a wolf, if that's still the prevailing-- - I think that's the prevailing thought at this point. - Yeah, so if that's the case, a boxer is pretty far from that. - Yes. - Yeah, he's from Muzzle structure and everything like that. That's that's a lot of deliberate breeding going on there Correct to get those shapes. Yeah, I mean down to the little pugs and the Chihuahua's and you know, so yeah The amount of iterations you would need I mean, that's like penicillin someone fucked up and made a pug You know, they're like nailed it Exactly, - Exactly. - You know, people like these things. Okay, so we got SWOT, you said this word SWOT earlier and we kind of looked at that. So you were working, the canine handler can be brought in or kind of flow in and out of SWOT situations. - Correct. - Is that right? So you guys are sort of available as this unit that can tack on, show up to respond. Are there Any incidences or how was that time when you when you were spot I mean that's a pretty well tuned group. Yeah, there's a lot of training together that went with that. You know that was you know just like any team really you know trained and get yourself better and better. Can I intend to be kind of boring on SWAT callouts a lot of times you're sitting on rear perimeter laying in the cold, waiting for somebody to come out, you know, in case somebody ran out the backside. Trying not to fall asleep kind of thing. Yeah. It was great, you know, if it was cold because I could cuddle up my partner and my backup sitting there is freezing their butt off, you know, can I cuddle with your dog? No, you can't. No, that's weird. Yeah. Absolutely not. But, uh, yeah, outside of that, you know, if we were making entry or something, you know, depending on the situation, sometimes SWAT team would make initial entry and sometimes we send the dog in first, just kind of depending on scenarios. Yeah. You know, I can't even talk about the idea of, you know, these dogs ever getting hurt in the line of duty. I know it happens. And you know, hopefully that's not an experience that hopefully you guys got out. I know you get, you mentioned that you got injured and not everyone will bring it up because I know how close you guys get to the dogs, but these dogs do get injured and do get injured and so forth. That's just part of something. It's kind of like getting a dog just for your family. You hope you outlive it, but you really don't ever want to have to deal with it not being there. Yeah, I was fortunate when I got hurt. My dog was old enough. I bought him from the city and kept him. Oh, you did? Yeah, so I kept him through his life. Yeah, natural. I don't know how this city would own the dog. Yes, the city would buy it. Interesting now. You've got a really well trained dog. They make money off. Yeah, you trained it and you had to pay back your own training I bought him for a dollar a dollar. Yeah, just so there was some exchange there But yeah, how do you even value something like that? Yeah Anyway, so you you were did law enforcement for a total of how many years about 10 10 years and you got injured and you had to hang up your hat. - Yes. - Eventually. So when you did do that, were you ready to, were you kind of like, I feel like I've run my course here and I can, or were you like, no, I was ready to keep going. - I was ready to keep going. I was completely lost when that happened. - Yeah, well, how did you get injured? Was it on the, like in work, or did you fall down your own steps? - No, I fell down a friend of mine's steps helping that move. - Seriously? - Yeah, screwed my back up, yeah, so. - You remember that line in "My Cousin Vinnie"? Do you ever see that? - Oh, I love that movie. - When he's like, "I fell down five steps," he goes, "Yours or someone else's?" - Yeah. (laughs) - He goes, "My," and he goes, "Fuck." - Yeah. - He's like, "I can't even help you with that." - Yeah. - So, you got her not working, you were helping a friend out for a six pack of beer or something like that. Yeah, helping him move, something stupid. And it didn't, you know, accident happens, you hurt your back and then you had to go through all that rigmarole. And so you came to the conclusion where your body told you that you need to go do something else. Yeah, kind of was lost and had no option but to go do something else at that point. Yeah, that's hard. hard. Yeah. Yeah. So you were kind of back at the drawing board. You at least shared your dog with you. Yep, I did have that at the drawing board. And so tell me about that time. I know that you said you were you were kind of like, Okay, I got a I got a rebuild here, which I get that sort of to drag through all that. But what did you view as kind of on the table? I had no clue at that point. I was, you know, hindsight being 2020, I had no forethought beyond what I was law enforcement at the time. So I kind of felt around trying to figure out another path with different things. Went to work for an Indian casino, ran their showroom for other concerts, did professional lights and sound with them for a little bit, went into compliance, doing internal audit work with them. absolutely hated it. Not your thing. Not my thing. Concert stuff was kind of cool with the lights and all that but on the sound but that was that's a tough life too so I didn't want to. Is that a night job? Yeah that's almost solely a night job. Yeah. Yeah. And so how long did you do when you're doing that were you feeling like I'm doing this until I figured out what I want to do or I mean Is that how you had it in your head because I wanted to take to realize it. I like doing stuff during the day um, I Don't know it was just one of those You just kind of like getting a rut, you know, of course that was my career path You know my education everything I was doing was geared towards staying in law enforcement So I was just kind of lost feeling my way out. Mm -hmm depressed and everything. - Yeah, the whole nine. - Yeah, lost my team, you know, that whole thing again, start over. So just reaching for straws, started the casino. - He got busy. - Yeah, just get yourself busy again. And while I was rehabbing my injury and all that, and then absolutely hated it. And my dad, he was in the Sacramento area still at the time. and he had got hurt in construction and he got out selling real estate and then his broker screwed him over out of a bunch of money one year he called me up said he was gonna have to go back on his tools okay said I'll get you in the union over here and let's start with the welder so lined up the time and lined up yeah it did Uh, you know, that sounds like for me, like, I would have, I don't really like the opportunity to pair up with my old man and go do something like that. Yeah. You know, so hopefully that was kind of, I guess it occurred because you guys had the relationship to be able to do that sort of thing. Yeah, we did. Um, and it was great. I mean, I worked around a lot of people over the years and managed a lot of people. And I will tell you, hands down, my dad is probably one of the best welders and pipe fitters I've ever been around. - Seriously? - Yeah, he was brilliant. - He has 10 ,000 hours in. - Plus. - Right, so he's a good teacher. - Yeah, he was. - What kind of teacher was he? Was he the kind of guy that just turned you loose with scraps and let you kind of figure it out or? - No, he was a little more hardcore than that. - Yeah, okay. - Yeah, you know, he was still old school. - I thought I was gonna be wrong. - Yeah, he was still old school, you This is how you do it. - Yeah, and pipe fitting, you use a lot of trigonometry, and I hadn't studied trig in years. - So Catella? - Yeah. - That's all you need to know, right? - Yeah, so he was, and I have a sister that's 20 years younger than me, kind of an oops, and she was in school at the time, and I remember sitting there like day one of the job with my dad looking, trying to figure something out and a math, now a simple mathematical, you know, trig equation. And he's like, what are you doing? I go, I'm trying to remember how to do this shit. And he's trying to get fucking better. Yeah, he's like, and that's what he said. He goes, what the fuck? He goes, I got to teach you how to, again, he goes, I'm teaching your sister how to do this shit now. And I got to teach you how to do it. And I'm like, do you want to yell at me or just tell me how to do it and refresh my memory? - Yeah, is this the curriculum? - Yeah. - Do you fucking first berate me? - And then we'll get down to it? - Yeah. - And I guess that was, I mean, did, that was his way? - That was his way, yeah. - Okay. - And then as I started learning and becoming more confident, you know, we kind of got rid of the dad -son relationship and then more of a team partnership. So there was still a lot of knock -down drag -out arguments over stuff, but you know. - Well, yeah, he wasn't, it wasn't is like you're still a dick but not as frequently yeah pretty much yeah that's a win yeah it was you know it's a battle of inches really it is yeah how long did you guys work together doing that oh god probably seven or eight years it's a long time yeah how many fights on average per week I mean at one or two. Okay. Yeah. So you're looking at a good amount of fights. Yeah, I'd say arguments. But yeah, I mean, nothing physical. Yeah. Yeah. Discussions. Yes. Yeah. There were times, you know, like I'd be, he'd be set up as a foreman and I'd be working for him. And there were times he was working for me. And one time he got pissed off at me and quit. Right. Is that, - Well, the tables had turned. - Yeah, my superintendent goes, "Your dad quit." I go, "Yeah." He's like, "What are you gonna do?" I go, "Let him quit." - Like, he's gotta learn these lessons. - Yeah, basically, and he's like, "I'm gonna get him back," you know, so he called my dad and begged him to come back. - Seriously. Wow, that's an interesting, you'd never been in that position with him before? - No, no, never. - That's crazy, and yeah, I've got - What are your kids older than your, what are your kids older than your sister? - No. - Okay. - No. I started late. - Okay. - All right. - I just started having kids I was in my 30s. - Okay, all right, so she's got about 10 years on 'em. - Yes. - Okay. I didn't know if we had like an inversion going on, where aunt, whomever is younger. So moving right along, so So you're working piping with your dad, you're doing that for seven, eight years, something like that. And that concludes. Or did somebody, again, did you get a tip from a trusted friend that you could go do something or where'd you go from there? Just working in the construction industry, you know, trying, you know, what I was taught was doesn't matter if you like it or not, just try to be the best at what you're doing. So just that mentality. Is that the same thing as doing overthink it? Sometimes I think it is overthinking it, but you know, just. You know, I, yeah, I just get the shit done. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of that degree. Yeah, but just be not just get it done, but get it done right. Get it done. Well, take pride in what you're doing. As long as I'm going to be here, it might as well be the best at it. Exactly. If, if my name's on it, let's make it the best. Yeah, that resonates. Yeah, so that was that's the what I was kind of taught growing up so. Yeah, well it's also I think it's kind of who you are I mean that my experience in life is that there are people who give a shit and people who don't. Yeah. And so I mean I think that that's like when it comes to like the wiring diagram that's like really high up in the circuitry. You know, we're like, there's just kind of broad classifications. Yeah. If you ask my wife, there's some shorts up there, but. Well, you know, not all, not all systems are designed to do all things. This is true. You know, but yours is geared to do that. Yeah. You know, but, uh, but I think that, yeah, I think, and I mean, it's an unfair comment to say there are two types of people, but I think it's a broad stroke that's relatively applicable. - Yeah, I would say, you know, definitely people with drive and people with less drive, so. - Yeah, I would say barring all relevant detail, it's totally true. - Yeah. - Yeah, barring anything to the contrary. So you're just getting busy now, and what year did you start with your old man doing this? - One, two, somewhere in there. - Okay, so plus or minus 25 years ago. - Yeah. - Okay, so you guys are doing this. So it was like 2008 -ish, is when you guys part ways, not good, bad, or otherwise, but something else comes up? - Yep. - Okay, so what did you start doing? - Well, I was a general foreman on a power plant we were building out of my local, the company I was working for after we completed it, asked if I would come on as a piping superintendent for him, doing the scrubber systems on the coal burning plants out in Illinois. So I left California, came out to Illinois, started doing that. And that wasn't actually the end of my dad and he actually came out and worked for me out here for a while as well. Did he really? Yeah. Wow, okay. But yeah. So you both got poached? Yeah. Okay. And so how long were you out here in Illinois doing that? Started in 2007 up in Havana, Illinois Worked at the power plant there and then came down to Baldwin Worked on the three units there and say we say working on what like you you're pipe fitting your welding your at that point I'm the superintendent. So I'm managing the field, guys taking care of the budgets, monitoring the cost on my portion of the job, kind of like a project manager over my section of it. - Okay, so you were overseeing the work at that point. You've had an opportunity to hang up the welding mask. - Yes. - The other thing where we hung up So, I hung up the welding mask and now you're kind of in what they may say is the management at this point. Early management, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so you're managing and probably wishing you were still welding. There are definitely days where I'd go in and ask, "Can I just grind on this piece of pipe for a little bit?" Well, management's great until people get involved. Yes, exactly. Exactly right. You know, a kind of, you know, That changes things it does, but you grew into it. Yeah, you know, I think again kind of going back to the law enforcement Stuff, you know skills you learn as far as being able to manage people and read people and understand them and Try and look at things through different perspectives You know helps with with a lot of that so so you had kind of a good tool kit for this. Yeah going into it Yeah, and so you've been in management since that time so we're talking 0708 ish Yep, right and so you've been in the management world doing that and so we're in St. Louis now and you were in Illinois and then so you've ended up in st. Did gross mechanical bring you to St. Louis or you'd already been here? No I still live in Illinois, I live in the Edwardsville area. - You guys just put amazing baseball fields out there. - Yes, we did. - Holy shit, we played there, so the kids play for Redbirds here. - Okay, yep. - And so we had not to interrupt you or anything. - No, you're good at that. - But we had, you know, you should play Eureka's are amazing. I don't know if you've seen those. Where we play our practice at Fenton, which is, I guess I can see why we practice there. We don't maybe don't want to spend our money on the best practice facility, but our home field out in Chesterfield, you know, right out by spirit. - Yep. - I thought those were really nice. And then we're like, see on the schedule, we got a game in Edwardsville and I'm like, you know, what field, I didn't even know you had, they must be like relatively like a year old or something. - Yeah, if, yeah, right at that probably. - I mean, it looks like somebody just ran a and vacuum over that outfield. I mean, it looks amazing. It looks like I would have expected to see Arnold Palmer there and not an outfielder. They are really that good. Yeah. Now they're putting hotels and stuff up over there to bring some tournaments and stuff in. They're doing a big expansion on that part. Are they? Yeah. So they've got, is that, are they hoping to bring in higher? I mean, it's not just for 10 year olds. Yeah. I don't know totally what the game plan is there, but they just, they're putting in a a big, like, looks like a top golf, but I think it's just a driving range and-- - Okay, no shortage of land. - Yeah, no shortage of land there. Putting in some hotels. They just put in a bunch of pickleball courts and different stuff there as well, so. - Wow, I mean, pickleball, not covering the whole age range now. - Yeah, yeah. - You know, but that was amazing 'cause you kind of turn the corner on this thing, and it's kind of, you know, it's kind cornfields, right? It was it was very country. Yeah. And then you come around and you got stadium lights and you know, you've got like the chain link fences that are, you know, nicely painted. They're not just sort of the galvanized stuff. You're like, wow. Yeah. Our kids were like, when you step on that field, you kind of like, is it okay if I step on it? It's so nice. In fact, I was like, ask the coach if I got there and I play catch for a few minutes. I wanted to be like on the field. But anyway, not to interrupt you, but that's a fabulous, but I'll say these other fabulous places have one thing in common that all need to be upgraded. The concession stand. Agreed. I mean, there's room to improve there. Yes, there is. My advice, which will never be asked for, would be we don't need all 30 fields, build 29 of them and save some budget. So I can have a hot talk that I don't like throw up in the trash can 25 minutes later. - Yes. - But that's my two cents. So anyway, you're living over in Edwardsville. - Yeah. - And so you've been in the area for a long time now. - Yes, yeah. - And so you've taken all this experience and how did you and Gross Mechanical find one another? - So I was working for another contractor as a project manager here in the St. Louis area one actually one of the guys that was working for me one of the local pipe fitters he was my general foreman on a project left and went to gross to be their writing boss and at that time gross was in need of a operations manager so he recommended me for the job Yeah, so did you know that recommendation was gonna occur? No, I had no clue Good you never had to get your hopes up. Yeah, I mean he asked me if I would be interested in it and I said I Was I was actually happy where I was I wasn't even looking for anything, but I was like you know not how it goes Yeah, I'll entertain, you know a promotion. Yeah, everything's for sale. So yeah, So they talked to Brad the owner and it fits so that's cool Yeah, and so your COO over there over there currently. Yes, and have you been a COO before this is my first run at it So it is so what are your thoughts at this point? Absolutely love it. Okay. Yeah, I tell you the gross family Brad and his brother Michael I've never worked with or or two better people, they're phenomenal people. - I couldn't agree more. They really are. They've got the right balance of sort of levity, like about humor, but also dead serious, and staying focused. So they keep it in mind as the days go by, that these are humans around us and not anything else but that. - Yeah, wonderful people. - That's great. So in kind of closing, there was something you mentioned before we started talking, just sort of in passing that we must talk about, which is you're a certified hypnotist. - Correct. - What the fuck is that all about? Like, where'd that come from? Like, whole story. - Oh my God. So back to Sacramento. - Am I currently - Hypnotized. - No. - Okay. - No. - I'm good. - Years ago, I was at the California State Fair in Sacramento. I'd never seen a Hypnotized stage. - Like, what year were you talking? - Oh, God. This would have been 2003, 2004 maybe. And they had a stage show, Hypnotized Going. and I sat and I watched the show. Thought it was absolutely hysterical, but I went, this is a bunch of bullshit. This is all staged. - Sure. - But that guy, it was so funny. The guy that was doing the show, the hypnotist was doing an adult version of his show. So, I bought ticket, went to the show, laughed my ass off. 'Cause they'd hypnotized them and stuff? - Oh, they'd hypnotized a whole group of people. - I wonder if I saw this. I mean, there are probably many of them. - Oh, they do them all over the place, yeah. - Okay, I've seen something like this in as funny as shit. - Yeah, but I'm like, this is bullshit, though this is all staged. - Staged, yeah. I've been wondering that since I saw it in like 1998 or whenever that was. - So the next year, I'm back at the State Fair again and they had another stage show going, "Different Hypnotists." So I sat down, was watching the show and there was two teenage girls in front of me and one of them got selected to go up on stage. Okay. And after the show. When she got selected, did you feel like that was a stage selection at that moment? I wasn't sure. It was, they both looked pretty shocked so if they were doing it, they're good. Okay. But when she came back and her friend starts questioning her. I'm eavesdropping on the conversation had to have to And you know back to law enforcement being able to read people and stuff You were you were working. I'm working and I'm listening and I'm watching and I'm like this girl legitimately doesn't know what she just did Without question without question And I'm like, maybe there's way more to this than I thought there was. So me being me, something intrigues me. - Dug in. - Dug in. And I started digging and got on a forum and I was working in Reno at the time and met this old guy who's a retiring hypnotist. He kind of took me under his wing. - It's like the karate kid. - It is, it was. I'm like Daniel's son here, you know? And he kind of took me under his wing and taught me and showed me what it was about. And the therapeutic side of it, not just the comedy side of it and the benefits of it and different things you can do. - Wait, so you saw this, realized that this was very likely legitimate. And you seeked out somebody to learn more. - Yes. - Then did you know what you wanted to learn? Do we like I want to know how to do this or you like just I want to unravel I want to understand I just want to unravel it and understand it. Okay, and then as I got into that. I'm like, all right I want to learn how to do this and then After that I went got certified in it and then just kind of had a Did it on the side for friends and family over the years Wait, hold on so you were you saw the show You saw the girl you were convinced and that like you were you convinced to hypnotism You or you were convinced something had occurred that she didn't know had occurred I was convinced something had occurred that she didn't know had occurred and it was maybe hypnotism that did it yes But I didn't understand what it was or how it worked or the process is behind it The science behind it and so that's what I was really starting to delve into. So you found Miyagi? I did. And at some point, you must have gone in there at some point as a doubting Thomas, right? Oh, yeah. And so when did you sort of be like, this shit's real? The first time he put me under. Oh, really? Was that day one? Or was that? No, it was a couple meetings into it, you know, what he was telling me about it. And he goes, you just need to experience it. What is under mean? So with hypnotism, what it is is like, there's two parts of your brain, we call it the conscious and the subconscious or the unconscious mind. So we're going to talk about the conscious mind is like your filter. So all your life experiences, you're growing up, all your perceptions that you've developed over the years, goes through the conscious mind. So as we're sitting here talking now your conscious minds analyzing what I'm telling you if it's bullshit or not based on your experiences, okay? Now your subconscious or unconscious mind is your That's the powerhouse of the brain. That's where everything happens So I think of it as like the primal part of the brain. Yeah, so your heart beating You don't have to think about making your heartbeat, but that's your subconscious mind is but that's so autonomic Is part of it, but not all of it. Correct. Okay So with hypnosis what you do is By people appear to be asleep as you put the conscious mind to sleep through relaxation or various different techniques So you can speak directly to the subconscious mind. Oh, shit So during So even though you appear to be sleep, you're actually hyper aware. - Like, so if someone's hypnotized, are they, is this like an eyes closed situation? - Generally. - Or are they like sitting there, zombied? - No, generally, you have them close their eyes. You're, depends on what you're doing. If it's a comedy routine, or if you're doing therapeutic for therapeutic stuff, you know, you want them to be completely relaxed, eyes closed, you know, that kind of thing. - Mm -hmm. Comedy routine, you know, there's various things you can do. So so you're turning off the filter Mm -hmm and All the biases all the biases. Yep That are and the the hope being that you can just get right down to the root of this situation Yep, is that I mean is that why somebody for their there are millions of reasons I suppose somebody would want to be hypnotized for therapeutic reasons But I would imagine there is a high level which is You're trying to unpack something that is just so auto -filtered That you can't get to it. I don't even know that they're even though it's part of their Conscious behavior. It's just so sewn in Yeah And it really depends on what you're working with on them Like one of the specialties I do is pain management, kind of touched my grandfather, my dad's dad, he passed of cancer years ago now, but he was a very religious gentleman, never drank alcohol, never did any drugs in his life. He was a Submariner in World War II. He was in charge of all the alcohol that fueled the torpedoes because he didn't drink it and he protected it from the crew that kind of guy you had a hen watching the henhouse yeah so he refused to take any of the pain medication when he's going through chemo and battling the pain and this is before I come this far yeah and you know conversations like you're he's in hospice you're dying why don't you like not be in pain he goes I don't I'm not taking that shit I don't roll like that yeah And he stood fast, you know, 'til his last minute. And so I'd always wished that there was something that I could have done to help him. - And non -medicinal. - Yeah, get out of that pain. - Wow. - And so when I got found hypnosis, I was like. - It's like a whole world. - Yeah, it's like a whole different world opened up, so yeah. - Wow, so, I mean, does that imply that you can, through hypnosis, if the autonomic nervous system or functions are part of the subconscious mind? Yes, you can change them. You can turn things on or off. Yes. Bullshit. There's no way, really. So, What's an example of something that you could sort of, like rewire an autonomic pathway? - Well, I won't say autonomic, but like-- - Or subconsciously. - Pain, as an example. - Okay. - You know, that's a sensation, that's an interpretation of a sensation that your brain is reading. So, you know, tickle, like as you get tickled is technically a pain sensation but through hypnosis you can change how the brain perceives that sensation and lessen it take it away seriously see I believe in hypnosis by the way so I'm like totally leaning in more because I think this stuff is so interesting yeah and have you ever done it I mean it's not what you do for a living, so you're not getting the reps that somebody else might be getting who's doing it eight hours a day every single day of their life. But have you had an opportunity to do this with somebody and had an opportunity to help them? I actually have a business on the side that is called Life Enhancing Hypnosis that I do. I have a little office in O 'Fallon that I treat people with. Seriously? Yeah. This This is unbelievable. There's a whole nother episode, but what do you enjoy the most out of it today? I mean, I know that it's so my wife became a she had a doctorate in physical therapy became Got that because what happened to one of her grandparents. So like right this happens, you know, these things occur and and You know, the reason she got into it is unshakable and always be there but what do you love about doing it today? Honestly it's the helping people okay you know that's that's the drive for me I charge a fee you know to cover you know some rental and stuff but yeah I don't I don't do it to make money off of it I just to help people man if someone walks in there and pain walks out without You probably could have doubled your fee, but I know it's not why you're doing it, but I'm just saying my point in saying that is they aren't feeling like you got to, you know, fleece them in any way if they're walking out having covered some cost. Yeah, I had a lady, this is, I saw her a couple, three years ago now I guess, she came in, she, When she was a child had been in a car wreck with her parents and they've been in excruciating pain her whole life and they tried all sorts of different stuff to alleviate the pain surgeries different things and She came in because she was wanting to try something different like a workout program something like that to - Shake it up? - Shake it up and help alleviate the pain. And, but she was there for hypnosis for motivation to do this. And so my first thing, sitting down with her, I do a consultation before we do anything and try and just figure out what the root cause of all this stuff is. And as we're talking about this, I'm like, well, why why don't we just get rid of the pain? To which she looked at me and just started sobbing. - Like, is that even possible? - Yeah, she's like, "Nobody has ever said that to me before." And I'm like, "Well, we can do all this stuff, "but why don't we just help with the pain?" - Yeah, let's get to it. - And we did a session, and two years later, She says she's still not in any pain. She walked out of that out of the session that night Feeling like she had never felt and since she was a kid So from the moment you started doing that hypnosis that night to the point where you like clapped or whatever you did to bring her out How many minutes had it had elapsed by an hour an hour changed your life forever. Yep That's a result and that's why I do it That's remarkable. You change that person's life forever. Yeah. That's the goal. That's pretty solid. Yeah. Well, I'm going to wrap this up on that high note because that's fabulous. But thank you very much for coming in today. No, thanks for having me. It's just been really fun to learn about you. Yeah. So thank you. No, appreciate it. All right.